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**Jerod Santo:** Have fun. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Thanks, Nathan. It's been awesome. Always good catching up with you. Anything else? Anything left unsaid that we haven't asked you, that we can make sure we include before we close out? |
**Nathan Sobo:** Probably, but I don't remember it, so... It's okay. |
**Jerod Santo:** We'll get you next time. |
**Nathan Sobo:** Just keep it in the flow. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Good deal. Stay cool, man. Thank you. |
**Jerod Santo:** Thank you. |
**Nathan Sobo:** Thanks, guys. |
• Anurag Goel's background and motivation for building Render |
• The limitations of cloud infrastructure providers like Heroku and AWS |
• The need for a cloud platform that supports modern application development and deployment |
• The market for cloud platforms and the potential for multiple players to coexist |
• Anurag Goel's vision for Render as a platform that fills the gaps in existing cloud providers |
• The challenge of competing with established players like AWS and Heroku |
• The importance of developer experience and productivity in cloud platform design |
• The way developers build applications changes frequently, with new frameworks and databases emerging every few years. |
• The cloud should provide fundamental primitives for developers to build applications, rather than requiring them to recreate internal infrastructure. |
• Render provides a platform that abstracts away complex tasks, such as scaling and networking, and allows developers to focus on their application. |
• Render's growth has been rapid, with 110,000 developers signed up in January 2025, up from 5,000 in July 2022. |
• The company's success is due to word-of-mouth and a focus on providing features that appeal to developers, rather than investing in marketing. |
• Render's approach is differentiated by its lack of opinion on how to build applications, and its ability to scale with companies as they grow. |
• The company's philosophy is centered around providing integrated products that meet the needs of application engineers, rather than trying to build a comprehensive suite of services like AWS. |
• Render's position in the market as a middle ground between legacy simplistic cloud platforms and complex public cloud infrastructure |
• Anurag Goel's motivation for starting Render, driven by a desire to solve the problem of cloud infrastructure complexity and its impact on developers |
• Anurag's personal drive and sense of purpose, fueled by a need to make an impact and contribute to solving large problems |
• Anurag's relationship with his wife and her understanding of the challenges and opportunities of building a new company |
• The importance of legacy and the passing of time, with Anurag reflecting on the 18-year anniversary of his relationship and the rapid passage of time |
• First meeting between Anurag Goel and Adam Stacoviak |
• Discussion of going through a process of climbing a mountain and not wanting to quit mid-climb |
• Anurag's focus on keeping Render an independent entity and staying in control |
• Importance of making money for investors and employees |
• Mention of a potential IPO as a step in the long-term journey |
• Comparison of post-IPO problems to current problems, with faster pace but same intensity |
• Discussion of reinventing one's job as CEO and adapting to new challenges |
• Anurag's experience as CEO, from coding to managing a large team and making strategic decisions |
• Growth of Render, from four people to 80, and the challenges of scaling a company |
• Importance of hiring executives and aligning the team around a shared vision |
• Hiring and company culture |
• Leadership and sharing context with employees |
• Anurag Goel's past projects, including building a GPU-backed Jupyter Notebook and selling it to a company |
• Anurag Goel's current role and focus on Render |
• AI and the future of application development |
• GPUs and their current price and demand |
• Anurag Goel's plans for Render in the AI era |
• Developing a platform to simplify complex compute tasks, especially for distributed or retry-based tasks |
• Discussion on Temporal and its similarity to the platform being developed |
• Importance of resilience and reliability in application development |
• Render's strength in making complex technologies easy to use and its target market for a core stack of components |
• Need for object storage within the Render platform |
• Render's approach to building object storage, focusing on solving real problems rather than creating a S3-compatible platform |
• Importance of stability, security, and capability in platform development |
• Discussion on GPUs and potential marketplaces for GPU access |
• Addressing the problem of managing retry-based tasks and APIs in application development |
• Render's product allows for easier handling of distributed tasks and asynchronous operations |
• The company is building a suite of products to simplify development and deployment for application developers |
• The goal is to provide a "batteries included" experience, with convention over configuration |
• The company raised a $80 million series C funding round to increase legitimacy, attract talent, and support growth |
• Render has a small sales team, with one account executive and one sales engineer, and focuses on providing on-demand support to application developers |
• The importance of human interaction and trust in the customer's decision to use Render's service |
• Quotas and sales compensation for sales-assisted migrations |
• Use of work email as a determinant of serious application |
• Target customer segments: early-stage startups and tech-enabled businesses |
• Product development: SSO, SCIM, and compliance features (SOC 2, ISO 27001, HIPAA) |
• Enterprise-level features and security requirements for serious companies |
• Render's user base is large and requires a significant amount of SSO seats |
• The company built its own SSO solution rather than using third-party providers like Okta or Auth0 |
• The decision was driven by cost savings, existing infrastructure, and control over the solution |
• The company's CEO, Anurag Goel, is preparing for a new phase of growth and expects to spend more time externally and internally sharing vision and strategy |
• Talent density and hiring will be critical for the company's success |
• Anurag Goel's role as CEO will involve calibrating his level of involvement in new initiatives and staying informed and close to them |
• The company's culture and customer relationships will be key to its continued success |
• Roles and responsibilities at Render |
• COO and CTO positions and whether they are necessary for the company |
• Management style and hiring process |
• Importance of direct communication and accessibility for employees |
• Company focus on application developers and serving their needs |
• Conducting conversations vs. traditional interviews |
• Discussion of the host's recent divorce and its impact on his perspective |
• Comparison of Kubernetes and Render, with Anurag Goel describing Render as "the good parts" of Kubernetes |
• Complexity and vendor proliferation in the Kubernetes ecosystem |
• Similarities and differences between Render and Fly, with Adam Stacoviak noting that the market needs diverse solutions for different types of developers |
• Importance of neutrality and not picking favorites in the tech industry, with Adam Stacoviak mentioning the Changelog's ethos and goal of showcasing options for developers |
• Anurag Goel's experience with Render's early days and the company's recent series C funding and increased legitimacy |
• Render's approach to product development prioritizes careful decision-making to avoid long-term commitments |
• The company's experience and support for managed Postgres has improved and is now better than Heroku's |
• Heroku's shift to Aurora and elimination of their free tier have driven users to Render |
• Render is not positioning itself as a replacement for Heroku, but rather a complementary option for developers who value speed and autonomy |
• The company is exploring options for lower-cost compute, including bare metal and dedicated hosting, due to concerns about AWS's long-term viability |
• Application developers' needs and preferences should guide Render's product development and strategy |
• Render's mission to serve app developers |
• Targeting 80% of the market, rather than 100%, as per the 80/20 rule |
• Render's ability to integrate with other cloud providers for specialized services |
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