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**Adam Stacoviak:** \[02:00:18.05\] Yeah, try them all. Try them all. Anything left in closing? Anything over the horizon? Anything that is maybe a sneak peek, or a tease, or anything you can share in closing? |
**Beyang Liu:** I will say -- when is this coming out? Is it going to be sometime in September? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Not next Wednesday, but the Wednesday after that. So literally, it's going to ship on September 17th. |
**Beyang Liu:** Okay, cool. I think by then some of this stuff will be out... But I think right now an area of active exploration for us is just experimenting with all the different new models that have come online. There's a lot of great models that are really good at tool use now, that occupy different places along t... |
And so one of the things that we're doing is we're playing around with all these different models, and seeing how well they function in either sub-agents that Amp uses, like the oracle for thinking, or the search sub-agent for discovering context, or just the generic sub-agent which conserves the context window of the ... |
And I think one of the things that's an active area of consideration for us is up until now part of the experience of using a coding agent has been just waiting; waiting for it to get done. Because the token throughput is at a certain level... And I think we're seeing a lot of positive signs that will allow us to bring... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, absolutely. I love the principles you built on. We didn't touch on those, but I love the principles you built on. Keep doing what you're doing, don't change a thing... Just do more of it and share the whats, the whys and the hows on that awesome Raising Agents podcast. Make it more frequent if... |
**Beyang Liu:** Yeah, it's good advice. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** ...but I think definitely elevate it to that first class experience of intentionality and production level. I think that's a pretty easy button to push, and it doesn't take a lot for you and the team involved in sitting down and hosting and talking, to do. You can employ people around you to have th... |
Alright, Beyang, thank you so much for your time, man. It's always a pleasure. I always appreciate talking with you. Thank you so much. |
**Beyang Liu:** Thanks for having me on, Adam. Always a pleasure, and... Yeah, let's keep talking. |
• Arun Gupta's book "Fostering Open Source Culture" covers building open source culture, business alignment, OSPOs, and internal/external communities |
• Arun's experience with open source culture goes back to Sun Microsystems in 2003, where he helped transition the company to open source |
• He has repeated this process at multiple companies, including Red Hat, Couchbase, Amazon, Apple, and now Intel |
• The book includes 40+ case studies from 55+ contributing authors on building open source culture |
• At Intel, Arun joined in 2022 to build the open ecosystem team and later led the broader developer programs effort |
• Intel has a long history of open source contributions, but its story was not well-known to the outside world |
• Arun's goal was to tell Intel's open source story in a credible and authentic manner to the outside world |
• Importance of contributing to open source communities in a non-code manner |
• Role of project management, bug triage, and technical documentation in open source projects |
• Value of sponsoring open source foundations and participating in governing boards and working groups |
• Importance of creating incentive mechanisms to encourage employee participation in open source |
• Overcoming lack of awareness and inertia within companies to adopt open source practices |
• Building credibility and trust through contributions to open source communities |
• Role of patience, perseverance, and understanding management's goals in operationalizing open source practices within companies |
• Importance of community involvement in open-source projects |
• Two approaches to open-source: supporting existing projects or open-sourcing internal proprietary projects |
• Need to understand the "why" behind open-sourcing a project |
• Case studies from various companies, including Google, Amazon, and Apple, highlighting the benefits of open-sourcing |
• Value of having a solid "why" that aligns with business incentives for open-sourcing |
• Examples of successful open-sourcing efforts, including Kubernetes and Swift |
• Investment in open-sourcing projects as a strategic business decision |
• Importance of defining a company's "why" or purpose for open-sourcing |
• Examples of companies using open-sourcing for enlightened self-interest and philanthropy |
• Discussion of inner source, including its benefits and how it can be used as a stepping stone to open-sourcing |
• Reasons for implementing inner source, including avoiding code duplication, training employees in open-source practices, and serving as a proving ground for open-source efforts |
• Challenges and pushbacks from management when implementing inner source and open-sourcing |
• Examples of companies, including Bloomberg, Intel, and Apple, that have successfully implemented inner source and open-sourcing practices. |
• Consolidating ETLs to reduce waste of resources and time |
• Building an inner source org with discoverability and tagging mechanisms |
• Improving project health and adoption across the company |
• Minimizing costs and engineering time through inner source |
• Creating a shared nomenclature and knowledge base |
• Fostering a culture of openness and collaboration through internal events |
• Providing a safe space for developers to learn and experiment |
• Advocating for inner source through education and advocacy |
• The importance of open source and internal events in connecting employees and fostering innovation |
• The use of hackathons and coding sprints as a means of "high intensity interval training" for open source developers |
• The benefits of connecting with others and building relationships within a company |
• The importance of conflict resolution in open source and separating personality conflict from task conflict |
• The use of analogies from fitness and sports to understand the principles of open source development and internal events (e.g. HIIT, tabata, mentorship, bootcamp) |
• Arun Gupta's extensive fitness history and current routine |
• The benefits and challenges of having an accountability partner for workouts |
• Arun Gupta's experiences with high-level fitness activities, including summiting Mount Kilimanjaro and hiking in Patagonia |
• Comparison of the difficulty of writing a book and summiting Mount Kilimanjaro |
• The challenges of descending from high altitudes and the importance of proper training and equipment |
• Planning and executing a climb to see sunrise at the summit of Kilimanjaro due to thunderstorm risks |
• Importance of open source foundations and their relevance to enterprises |
• Joining open source foundations, such as Apache, Eclipse, and Linux Foundation, and the benefits of membership |
• Centrality and neutrality of open source foundations, such as the Linux Foundation |
• The concept of douocracy, where contributors rise through the ranks based on their contributions to a project |
• Beginning the culture shift to inner source, open source, and organization, including getting executive buy-in and creating a 10-step framework for change |
• Identifying stakeholders within and outside the team for open source initiatives |
• Addressing frustration and task conflict through listening and understanding |
• Defining boundaries for open source activities and creating working groups |
• Establishing an open source program office (OSPO) to support open source efforts |
• Importance of open source culture in sustaining innovation |
• The future of software development and innovation in open source |
• Contributing to open source communities as a way to share and receive value |
**Adam Stacoviak:** We are back with Arun Gupta. It's good to see you, Arun. It's been a couple years. |
**Arun Gupta:** Yeah, it's been about a year and a half or so. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** You know, I was really encouraged by our conversation we had at All Things Open... I love All Things Open, by the way. It's been a while. Going back later this year. Arun, you are at Intel... You wrote an awesome book... You've been in open source for - would you say a very long time? Is that how yo... |
**Arun Gupta:** Well, over a couple of decades, let's say. So it's been a while. It's been a while. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Okay. Gotcha. I like the way you say it in your book, of course, too. The book I'm talking about is "Fostering Ope Source Culture." We just got our copy today, so we don't have super-deep depth, but... |
**Jerod Santo:** There it is. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Arun is holding it up. Covering open source culture, business alignment, OSPOs, of course, internal events, inner source, external communities, employee enablement... And then also getting started. So this is a book for anybody really trying to do what you've done in your career, which is jumpstart ... |
**Arun Gupta:** Yeah, I mean, this is my fifth or sixth company where I built that kind of open source culture. My experience really goes back to Sun Microsystems... Gosh, 2003, 2004. I mean, literally over two decades ago... Where we were taking the entire company from closed source to open source. And back in those d... |
And as I was moving across these companies, I recognized -- I kept doing the same things again and again... And I was also talking to a lot of startups, a lot of other enterprises, a lot of other friends. I'm part of several open source foundation boards. As I talk to senior leaders across the enterprise, I recognize t... |
So half the book is about my theory in terms of how do you build that open source culture, why that culture is important. And the other half, the more interesting part I would say, is about 40-plus case studies by 55-plus contributing authors on how and why they have built that open source culture. |
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