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**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. So we have a lot of people going to work, but not going to work... Right? |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** You've got this mandatory stay-home, this term "social distancing", which I've actually heard it be said -- I forget what it was called... Matt Mullenweg said it, and I'll have to check out his blog while we're talking, to confirm... But it wasn't social distancing, it was just on this idea that we ... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** I like that nuance. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Because we're still humans, you know? |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. And I think this is really important as we talk about remote work experiences... I think for a lot of people it's involved a sort of learning curve of going "What works for me, and how do I create that work-life blend/balance, wherein I still get to see people?" This is why in my are... |
Because there are just these sort of idiosyncratic experiences when we are face-to-face with people -- or maybe even a better word is haphazard; they just happen, without planning... Like watercooler chat. Or somebody was walking down the hall past your office and they tripped on accident. We lose those sort of social ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[08:30\] Yeah, Matt says "I've really had enough of this term social distancing. That is not all we are looking for, is it? We should be looking for physical distancing. In these times of rampant loneliness, disconnection, and lack of empathy and compassion, we need the opposite. We need social con... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yes, I couldn't have said it better. Because I think about it with some of the issues that we're now trying to navigate, in terms of what people have all gone out out of fear and purchased, to make sure they don't run out. However, I was having a conversation recently with a friend who sai... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Wow... Yeah. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** That's part of community, and recognizing there's resources in other people. But how do we do this when we need to keep physical proximity...? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, a friend of mine said "I'm talking to a lot of people these days via the phone." That whole social connecting - he finds himself talking to friends more on the phone that generally with Instagram, or text, or some sort of digital connection... And a physical phone call to people, maybe in this... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Sure. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** "You don't have to come in and say hello, or knock, or feel obligated", but this idea of still connecting in ways where we were just not - it's so weird. It's just so weird to even talk about this. It's surreal. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Sure, and I think that it's important as we have this conversation around remote work, that this has a whole different sort of qualitative feel to it. Remember how we talked about our choice as being incredibly valuable? ...that it feels different. Part of my decision to work remotely wasn... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. I joked about Contagion, the movie, the last time we had this conversation. We've actually had one episode come before this one, on memory, which was recorded prior to Coronavirus being a thing... I guess it was actually while it was happening, but not so much on the restrictions here in the U... |
Obviously, the viruses in the movie versus this one is different in terms of its effect on humankind, but similar in nature, in the way it spreads and all the things that happen. And they actually said the phrase "social distancing" in the movie. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Wow. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I don't know how old that movie is, eight or ten years old, but social distancing was a phrase in that movie. Ain't that crazy? |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** \[12:12\] Wow... That's crazy. That's crazy. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** And it was a Coronavirus. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Really?! |
**Adam Stacoviak:** They said the word Coronavirus. They said R0, they talked about -- I mean, so much of the movie is just so accurate in terms of what you would really deal with in a pandemic. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Sure. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It's just so interesting. Could we not have just watched that movie and prepared better? It's almost like "What happened here?!" |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** It's interesting, even in talking about this and going -- I think humor is so valuable, and it doesn't mean people can't be offended by things that others find humorous... However, it's a really functional way to navigate stress. Making light of it, and going -- and not in any way am I mak... |
I heard it said that just this is so significant, this is going to be in our history books in the years to come because of the way in which it's changed our lives. And I think that for anybody who's been allowed to or had the opportunity to work remotely, that there's benefits to it. But like all things, there's differ... |
I know that most of the research when it comes to remote work has said it's generally better in the sense of enhancing productivity, but they can't say why. Why would it be that if I let you work from home, that productivity goes up? And I don't know -- have you ever heard of Daniel Pink? He wrote a book called Drive, ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It's on my list to read. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Well, he talks about this in terms of intrinsic and extrinsic motivation. There's things internally or intrinsically that drive us, and then there's things outside of us that are motivating... Like, you know, money. So these are critical factors when it comes to however we set up our life.... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, I don't think so... That would be unfortunate if it was. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right?! So this is really at the heart of learning, and I would say life. Because life involves learning and adapting. That's what we're all doing right now. So he talks about motivation with having a few different critical aspects. They are autonomy, there is purpose, and then there's mas... |
What he's talking about in terms of autonomy is that we all have this inherent drive to create. There's people who have talked about this with different companies in technology, wherein as far as I understand, they've been allotted a certain amount of time to work on their own creative endeavors, and that there's a por... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[16:19\] Yeah. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** So if I'm like "Here are the keys. You can have far more flexibility and autonomy to pick when you work, how you work... All of those things, so that you can accommodate other things in your life" - wouldn't it make sense that productivity would go up? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yes and no. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Say more. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** The yes is because that seems to be a good recipe. The no is not everybody is wired that way. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Touché. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Not everybody has the necessary self-discipline... And maybe even it's just experience. Because I think after a while you can get into a rhythm of remote working and self-discipline... But abrupt change, where you didn't participate in the choice, might be harder to immediately be more productive. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Sure. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** You're gonna hit some challenges in this change. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Most certainly. But part of that comes down to really "Know thyself", and going "When do you work best?" I think it's Michael Breus who is a sleep researcher, who I think I've alluded to in the past, who talks about our sleep cycles and having a genetic component around timetables... So th... |
If you were a night owl, wherein it's like "After 9, 10 o'clock at night, that's when the juices are flowing. Let's create, let's go!", that's gonna be hard to get up to be in an office at 8 or 9 in the morning if you're up until 2 o'clock in the morning. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. Your most effective hours are in an environment where you're not as effective. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. So that's just one thing. And then other subsequent dominos would look like "Well, then who else is awake in terms of co-workers if you get stuck or you need other feedback at those times of day?" So there's this asynchronous aspect to doing the remote work. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, I think that's the key - they synchronization of others. You can do things asynchronously, and not be blocked by someone else, and let that become a pattern for work rather than -- now, not all work is that way though. Some work you can't do asynchronously. Try building a car asynchronously. I... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yes. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Not all work. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** This is why I think it's helpful when we have these conversations, like - helping people build a different framework; a mental sort of grid for how they can make sense of this. I think of this like a rhythm, in all we do... Whether you're at the job, but also especially remotely, to say "I... |
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