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**Adam Stacoviak:** \[04:19\] So what role does our genes play into these things? This idea - we'll talk about epigenetics, even neuroplasticity - what role do these kinds of overarching sciency things play into everyday life for people? |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Well, genes are really what we're born with... So this is an area that I often have to do a lot of educating patients around, in terms of "We are not solely our genes. Just because this is what I was born with doesn't mean "Here's your future, it's predetermined. Sorry. Deal with it." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** How does genes relate to DNA? I'm thinking - these terms people hear in their lives; they don't study this stuff, they're not into books like you or I might be... Genes are like "Okay, that's my building blocks, and there's something called DNA, and I've got my blood type, and I've got these things.... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Well, the DNA is what makes up who we are. So it is our genes. I don't want to do too much of a deep dive into that, but genes are sort of like this building block for who we are. So when things go awry, it's sort of like -- you've heard of certain abnormalities like Trisomy 21, the 21st chrom... |
So there are these genetic abnormalities, which are fixed, and you're not going to undo. But we also aren't just subjected to what we're born with, because we know this in terms of, for example, alcoholism. People who have -- we know that there's a genetic facet or component to alcoholism. But just because you have it ... |
In the same way with mental health - we can say "Hey, this is in my family lineage. There's people in my life who have this", but it does not then mean that you will in fact have that same issue. Does that make sense? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. In particular to alcoholism, and let's just say an overarching theme, addiction - for me in particular, I can see how I have some alcoholic people in my family. I think almost everybody does. So that's sort of like a normal thing, to some degree. But I can look at certain things -- I have an a... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Sure. So maybe it just doesn't look like alcohol, but maybe -- |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Anything fun. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** \[laughs\] Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Okay... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** And that's just it. It's not all bad, right? But if you're aware of -- I like to think of genes like propensities. Like, "I'm more prone, I'm more likely..." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[08:04\] Right, yes. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** If I'm faced with a fork in the road, my brain goes "Go this way. This is the way." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** More often than not, yeah. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Yeah. So what we're talking about then relative to change or epigenetics is that intersection of our environment and our genes. For example, maybe (God forbid) something really tragic in your life occurs, that if you had been drinking more often and that's something you use for coping, it woul... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. Totally. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** I'm not correlating and say this is causing you, but given you have this foundation and given this environmental exposure, I just tilted the scale, in a way. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. And you can't fight gravity. If we're doing a gravitational metaphor, it's gonna be harder for you to climb that hill back up to the other side, to tip the scale the other way. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Yes, exactly. So that first thing is recognizing or having the awareness around yourself and your genes. Now, that being said, there are some things where genes play a more relevant role. For example, in the lane of mental health, there are certain disorders like schizophrenia or attention def... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That's interesting. Regarding this addictive mindset I've mentioned and our discussion around it, I can see how I've also leveraged it. I would change the word from addictive to obsessive, and maybe that's even got some borderline -- |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Sure. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So I think just reframing this whole "Name it to tame it" idea, even the awareness around it... So I think awareness is super-key for someone like me or anyone dealing with or having a similar scenario in their life... Because I've been able to say, okay, it's not addictive, it's obsessive, and I've... |
That's also a learned behavior, too. I didn't always do good at that. I haven't been great at this in particular for a very long time. It's been for maybe a good marathon, not the full life of Adam so far. But the point is, if I fixate or obsess over solving a problem, I'll probably figure out the necessary resource to... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Sure. And so that's just it. You've practiced a skill, and as we've talked about with building habits, you've sort of honed or sort of restructured yourself relative to habits that you engaged in routinely. So it makes a difference. And this is why -- if you can imagine, whatever we practice d... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[12:16\] Yeah. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Because guess what - if I realize I don't like the way that I'm going, for example even naming it differently for you and saying "This is somewhat obsessive", you can go like "Is this disproportionate? Am I spending too much time in this one area of my life?" For example mountain-biking. You'r... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. Well, that has crossed my mind a couple times... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** \[laughs\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** And it's true, because I think anything anybody likes - me in particular, I can speak from my experience, if I like something, I'm more prone to dive in deeper. And sometimes it's a rabbit hole, sometimes it's a layered onion, and it's got multiple facets. If you ask me about something very geeky, I... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Sure. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I do. Because I'm that weird. I go that deep into things, because that's what makes me enjoy them. That's what helps me to really appreciate all the art involved and the science involved in bike technology. It's crazy how much is involved, it really is. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** So let me ask you, have you always been that sort of geeky around-- |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yes. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** \[laughs\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I didn't even have to listen. Yes. I didn't even catch up with you. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** \[laughs\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** My mom recognized it when I was young, my wife recognizes it... Everyone that's ever been close to me recognizes how deep I like to go. I love baseball cards. I still have those baseball cards. I loved comic books; I still have those comic books. That's how deeply I grow a passion for and obsess ove... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Right. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I would become a super-fan of all the greats in comics, all the greats in baseball, all the greatest in a given sport, all the greats in a given field. When I got in the military and I was given some opportunity, I began to love it and go deeper into it. Eventually, I served my time and that time in... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Okay. So if you can imagine as a sort of metaphor/analogy that our genes are like the foundation for our house, for our self, and going "What if you got curious or were exposed to other things earlier on in your life that maybe weren't so functional?" Because all of what you're saying are not ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** And I have been, yeah. Totally. I mean, without making this show completely about all my flaws, there's definitely been things that I've done, that I haven't outlined, that I've obsessed over, that was not -- you know, in your words, that was maladaptive. It wasn't good for my life, it wasn't good f... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Yeah. So I could even out myself here a little bit... Even given, we all manage stress differently, and graduate school can be a stressful time in one's life. I remember this time wherein -- so it was when Crispy Cream... If you don't know Crispy Cream, it's a donut place that electrified the ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Oh, yes. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** \[16:07\] They sort of highlighted it, and it said "Hey, hot donuts now!" And they happened to install one on my way between my house and my school. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** No... No...! |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** \[laughs\] Right? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** But yes. Because they're that good. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** They were that good... So I would love my crispy cream indulgence. But it took time to be like "You know what--" I called it the ten-minute phenomenon; it was so good and so yummy going down, and then ten minutes later I was going like "Why...? Why did you do that, Mireille?" These conversatio... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. That drive-through is there, it's accessible, it takes just a minute... I mean, I can afford this; I've budgeted for this donut... Yeah. |
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