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• Benefits of face-to-face interactions, including increased emotional awareness and connection
• Impact of language barriers on communication and empathy
• Risks of isolation and exclusion due to "insider knowledge" or slang in social interactions
• Communication challenges caused by differing word interpretations
• The importance of considering missing data in interactions
• Empathy as a tool for self-analysis and improving relationships
• Mindfulness training and loving-kindness meditation for compassion and empathy development
• Practicing alternative responses to difficult situations through reflection and role-playing
• Creating an internal file of experiences for reference and learning
• Differentiating between physical and emotional pain, including discomfort as a positive catalyst for growth
• The benefits of pro-social behavior, such as volunteering, and giving without expectation of reward
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** It's interesting, because the more that we have these conversations, the more it makes me reflect on how these things show up in day-to-day life. And just like we've talked about with the neuroscience of it all, that "Where attention goes, energy flows", so in our conversations around peop...
So I wanted to just take another episode to dig a little deeper into what is involved in empathy from more of a neuroscience perspective. As well as everything, we want it to be able to apply to ourselves, so how we can learn to be more empathetic and compassionate, both with ourselves and others.
**Adam Stacoviak:** I have to agree. I think where energy goes, neurons flow, or whatever the phrase is... But I feel that, because as we've studied and reflected on empathy and compassion, I've seen the role of empathy and compassion, its importance in everyday society... Not just in a face-to-face conversation, but i...
There's a lot - which we'll cover more deeply - where you miss the nuance of things; if you're in a face-to-face conversation and you see somebody's visible body language, you see their facial reaction, you see a lot of this data that helps you to make choices and to better understand your scenario... But empathy and c...
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. As you say, that concept of seeing... Not literally, with our eyes, but with our brains. And one of the things that I think I can't attest enough to is when we talk about these things, and the way in which the brain works and what we know, everything is systemic. There's systems invo...
Before we get started, I wanna talk about the definitions again, and sort of expand upon it... The perception of suffering in another usually requires this process called empathy. This is taken from Dan Siegel's book "Aware". Dan Siegel, if you're not familiar with him, he is a psychiatrist who's done a lot of research...
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah.
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** That's a lot, right? \[laughs\]
**Adam Stacoviak:** That is a lot.
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Well, if I can sort of reduce it to what we wanna talk about today - in face-to-face interactions, communication usually has this sort of multi-modal nature to it... And it involves the processing of visual facial cues, which is what we're talking about in terms of having the actual data o...
**Adam Stacoviak:** Not effect.
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right, right. And then the choice of words that we use, or semantics. So in this way, I could say the same sentence and it could have two very different meanings. For example, I could say "Yeah, we'd love for you to come", or like "Yeah, it's okay if you come join us", or it could be like ...
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, they don't... And you can layer that on with a face, too. So if you just don't hear that and you see somebody say that, not only is it clear by their language and tone, and the semantics, as you're saying, the choice of words, and the way they say them, but it's also the face they make, and th...
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. So looking for consistencies, as well as discrepancies in that. In working with people over the years, really part of what I do is "That's interesting!" I'll make reflective comments, and say "Well, you said this, but yet the way in which you're acting or the tone of your voice tell...
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right.
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** So ironically, what I'm actually doing is helping somebody build this mental model of themselves, in their mind's eye. Think of it like empathy and that perspective-taking - I hold this sort of clay working model of another person, but also myself... And when I can't do that, I'm going to ...
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. Well, a lot of how we act with others is a reflection of how we feel and what our perspective is. If we can't see it through somebody else's -- we tend to reflect on the world based upon our own experiences... And if you're not able to do what you've just said there, it's gonna come off as lik...
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. And I would offer that one of the challenges really in this is that without necessarily conscious awareness, people might presume that if they are empathetic or hold somebody else's feelings in mind, that it actually then feels more submissive, or like they are taking a posture of a...
It's important that we can recognize the way in which other people affect us, and use that as a data point... But that isn't the entirety of the story. I might interface with somebody and they might come across as incredibly cold, or sterile, or just sort of flat... But I might not have any reason why, or I might infer...
**Adam Stacoviak:** ...at all to do with you, yeah.
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right.
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, that's an interesting perspective, because that happens often, where you think the interaction went poorly, or what you're saying there... But meanwhile, there's a back-story; rewind four hours and something happened in their life. They got terrible news. Or even five minutes prior to that mom...
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah, so let me sort of talk about the brain structures involved in this. There is the prefrontal cortex and the anterior cingulate cortex. Say those five times fast...
**Adam Stacoviak:** I can't do it.
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** \[laughs\] The prefrontal cortex is part of our frontal lobe, and then this anterior cingulate cortex - that is typically associated with decision-making and impulse control... But the self-monitoring, what we call perspective-taking and empathy, are all linked to both of these key brain s...
I'm not sure how much we've talked about it - maybe a little bit in Habits - but our frontal love does a lot of what we call higher-order cognitive functions... Often what I refer to as executive functioning. People in the field talk about executive function. If you can associate that with everything an executive assis...
In the same way I can stand in one location, with my eyes, my gaze fixed on an object in front of me... However, if I move 30 degrees to the right or move 30 degrees to the left, that's going to change my perspective on the object. And the same thing is true in relationships. But I have to be willing to look at all of ...
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. Perspective is key.
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** It really is.
**Adam Stacoviak:** Your perspective and your judgment of a scenario can totally change based upon just a slight shift in perspective. And what I mean by that is this aspect of empathy. If I could view something from your perspective, Mireille, with your scenario instead of my own, well then I can begin to have compass...
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. And it's really what you focus on... Because even in a room, or where you are right now, if you're in your office or in your home, or driving in your car, there's multiple options available to you to focus on.
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah.
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** But if I'm only focused on one thing, I'm going to lose other peripheral data, that might be actually pretty salient.
**Adam Stacoviak:** How do you mean by that? Give me an example.
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Well, I just think about it in terms of relationships. Like, you don't ever know what somebody is going through, unless they tell you. And especially in the workplace, you don't know everybody's back-story, you don't know things that have contributed to the way they respond and the way in ...
So you might be in a new workplace, and you're working on a team, and you may not know that one of your team members is maybe in the middle of a divorce, maybe they're in the middle of trying to manage the birth of a child, or moving, or buying a home, or a major medical concern... Pick anything. But they responded har...
**Adam Stacoviak:** It could be intentional or not intentional. It could just be habitual, it could be autopilot.
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. Or it could be like "Hey, from my childhood I had to stand up and I had to be really brash. I had to be overbearing, to say "This is what I want, and you will give it to me!" Because maybe that's the family and how they sort of worked it out. That's not good or bad, right or wrong, ...
**Adam Stacoviak:** While you're saying this, I'm thinking sometimes for me it's easy to understand something if I can understand the opposite. So if we're talking about empathy and compassion, do they have opposites? What are the opposites of those two things? Is there anything?
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** That's an excellent question.
**Adam Stacoviak:** I was thinking maybe entitlement might come into that? I'm not sure if it's a one-to-one, but whenever -- and maybe I'm wrong here, but in the scenario you've just described, if someone isn't giving you the reaction that you want because they have a back-story that disallows them, or they're just pr...
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah, so I might even zoom out a little bit... Yeah, entitlement would be a part of a bigger whole, that I would say rigidity. Cognitive rigidity. I can't move or maneuver into a different place. This is very present in couples. The hardest thing about managing a romantic relationship over...
It's challenging to go "Okay, I need to really hear this person's expression of how I affected them, but I really just wanna be right and I want you to hear me. My feelings count, too!" \[laughs\]
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right, right, right... This requirement of being right is really crippling, as well. All too often it's about being right versus collaboration, or just coming to behavior change, or just expressing how you feel... Because there's ways you can reframe things; rather than lashing out with somebody, yo...
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Sure.