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And then when you slow down -- you always wonder why old people sometimes seem to be more present. They notice the small things sometimes - the flower, this or that... Their bodies have slowed down, so they see more around them in some ways. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** They can catch the details. |
**Elisha Goldstein, PhD:** Yeah, they can see the details. Right, I love that. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It's like your analogy, Mireille, the fast motion versus the slow motion. They're moving through time much slower, because they have allowed themselves to, just sensory-wise, slow down. Maybe not really through time, because we can't manifest or change the way time flows; we're all moving through ti... |
On that note, I wanna mention this because it's so relevant, and I'll swing it back to business for just a second... So this business we run, Changelog Media, so often in the media business does (I guess) the inertia of media just drive you faster. And so one thing that Jerod (my partner in this business) and I have sa... |
**Elisha Goldstein, PhD:** That's a moment of mindfulness, to be able to do that... Because you're saying "I'm being intentional in the moment. I'm inquiring into what I need right now, what I wanna focus on, what's the most important for me to do." And we can quite literally also do that with physically slowing our bo... |
So there's the informal piece, which are weaving things through your day, just being present to what you're doing while you're doing it, eating, in the shower, just coming to your senses... It's really rejuvenating your nervous system. Try it out, you'll see. And even knowing you're walking while you're walking - thing... |
The formal piece - it's more where you've found me, Adam, which is more through guided meditations. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Calm, yeah. |
**Elisha Goldstein, PhD:** Yeah. Through taking time out... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I was gonna bring it back to that, because that's something of what you say in those two different exercises, it's very much that - how are you feeling? Are you tensing up right now? Just taking time to notice those things. I'm regurgitating your words back to you, but just taking that time, slowing... |
\[36:05\] One thing you say which I think is pretty interesting is just settling into being here. As a guide, you the guide give the listener permission - where you're at right now is where you need to be. And you don't need to be anywhere else. Maybe you could be doing something else, but you don't need to... So just ... |
We have a show on self-care we're gonna release potentially before this episode with you - or after, I'm not sure which it'll fall - but we kind of give that permission. At one point we pause and we say "Hey listener, it's okay to take care of yourself. You have our permission - not that you need it - to take care of y... |
**Elisha Goldstein, PhD:** It's not only okay, it's smart. It's a skillful thing to do. It will create more longevity in your lifespan, it can prevent disease, prevent cellular inflammation in your body, it can prevent against stress, help you respond smarter when those responses are there, it can help you focus better... |
If we can celebrate the good moments that are there, those moments we're taking care of ourselves, and having gratitude, and being so appreciative of that moment - we're heightening our emotion and we're telling our brain "Hey, this is important to pay attention to. Pay attention to this, too." Because we have to send ... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** You know, in talking about informal and formal ways, people use the terms mindfulness and meditation interchangeably... So for whatever reason, some people have strong feelings about meditation, and sort of going "Maybe it's a little woo-woo, spiritual", as opposed to just a practice. So can y... |
**Elisha Goldstein, PhD:** Totally. I did a whole YouTube on this. People can check out my YouTube channel on that, because that's a really important question, and a lot of people have that question... Especially when this first came out, this mindfulness thing - mindfulness just as a noun means awareness. So really, y... |
And what I would tell them is - because my wife and I used to run these family retreats pre-Covid. We'd go to Costa Rica, bring families out there... It was an epic time. And one time we had two Mormon families, a devout religious Jew family, and a devout religious Christian family, and we had this question come up. An... |
Then there's meditation, which is specifically taking time out of your life to sit, stand, lie down or walk, and do some sort of structured practice of some kind, where you're intentionally paying attention to something, whatever the practice. There's so many different types of meditations; there's mindfulness meditati... |
\[40:05\] So under the umbrella of meditation, mindfulness meditation is one kind of meditation. Mindfulness also just means awareness, so you can also use the unstructured aspect, the informal aspect, and infuse that into anything that you want, whether it's transcendental meditation \[unintelligible 00:40:21.24\] You... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Yeah, I think this is just so important, because I see skills like this -- and for people to know that it's a skill, so they can learn it, and improve upon it at whatever point in time... But it really acts as an anchor. Senses are all real-time, so when I attend to the senses, I'm attending t... |
**Elisha Goldstein, PhD:** Yes. Well, we all try to avoid vulnerability... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Right, which is where I was gonna turn, because you've sort of brought this around, and talking about the importance of relationships, and I don't wanna miss that aspect of our conversation as well... Because we talk a lot about community, and that especially during Covid life, when we're more... |
**Elisha Goldstein, PhD:** I did a study back in 2006, a national research study that was published in the journal of clinical psychology, where I had people do this short mindfulness practice... But what we had them do was -- they did that, and then I had them relate to something that they found meaningful. That could... |
Then I did a qualitative piece to it, which is interviewing everyone and then finding the themes and what people are talking about, and what I came to was the singular experience that people were experiencing who had these great results was one of connection. So connection was at the epicenter of statistically signific... |
So when we feel like we have good, solid connections in our lives, we feel well. When we feel disconnected in our lives, we tend to feel unwell. And everyone here who's in a significant relationship, or even has these significant friendships in your life, you know this. When those are fractured a little bit, or not in ... |
\[44:11\] And what we do know too, and so many people in business know this too, or different people in different sectors - when you surround yourself with people who are being the change you want to see in the world, you're way more likely to level up into that space than if you're surrounding yourself with let's say ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. |
**Elisha Goldstein, PhD:** So there's something about it, whether we want to call it the mirror neurons, or whether we wanna call it a "monkey see, monkey do" type of scenario, or whether we want to actually say there's these invisible threads between us, when we get to the quantum physic level, there's something impor... |
Years ago I went from teaching eight-week courses in mindfulness and self-compassion, and uncovering happiness, and things like that, to bringing people through six-month courses, because the reason was I wanted people to make relationships with each other in these courses, so that when it was over, they then had these... |
As Jim Rohn's famous quote was, "You're the average of the five people you surround yourself with", I wanted that to happen. But what happened was ultimately even six months wasn't enough; for some people it was, but not for everyone. So that's when I opened up - and especially right when Covid hit - I opened up the sp... |
And it takes time, and it takes relationships, and there's nothing more valuable in this lifetime or on this planet than to have those types of relationships in your life. Even people who -- my dad's a rabbi, and he's laid with people on their deathbed for years, and he said (and many people echo this who do that) what... |
In this particular culture right now our brain is gonna default to "Just give me the quick snippet of information, because I'm so busy in my life." But to make a relationship takes intention and time. You don't make a relationship like that, unless you have a trauma together. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, that's insta-connection, trauma. Or an adventure. |
**Elisha Goldstein, PhD:** That's right. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Adventures are also connectors as well. |
**Elisha Goldstein, PhD:** Totally. Absolutely. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** In a world where we're hyper-connected... Some would say we have plenty of relationship, because hey, we're super-connected. Help us understand why maybe the hyper-connection we are in doesn't give the results you're suggesting? Because I would say that I'm more connected, but then also quite isolat... |
**Elisha Goldstein, PhD:** \[48:05\] If you looked at people scanning their social media, if you were gonna do brain scans on them, you'd see not as many touchpoints in the brain happening that if you saw someone having some emotional resonance with each other in-person. Or even over video has more data points than jus... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Good intentions at least. The intention is good. |
**Elisha Goldstein, PhD:** Yeah. It's good if it's meaningful. Two-dimensional - what I mean by that is it's not all bad; there can be good stuff from that. But we need more experiences with each other, and more really intentional connection. |
In some of these circles we lead -- in the Mindful Living Collective, what we do is we do these things called circles, which comes from the lineage... We've secularized some experiences from the Native American tradition, let's say... And what we do is we drop in, we do a short mindfulness practice and we drop in, and ... |
So we just kind of share, 'This is what's happening for me right now. This is what's on my heart, this is what's on my mind..." and "Wow, it's really stressful" or "Wow, I've had this really great adventures lately", or whatever things... And people are just listening with their full attention, just wanting to support ... |
So we can have a web that's a really weak web, a HUGE web, with thousands of -- how many friends do you have on social media? Thousands and thousands of friends... But a fly is gonna just zoom right through it and rip that web apart. Or we can have a strong web, that's smaller, but it's strong. It's gonna catch everyth... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. I would say too then the next thing after that is the ability to actually connect. Because you can meet in-person with people and have zero connection with them... Because maybe their emotional intelligence level is pretty low, or they're not in the right place in their life, or whatever... T... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** One of the things that stood out to me in what you said, Elisha, was about sharing. And in the same way we've talked about the implications of cultural values, here in the States I don't know to what degree there is reinforcement around sharing where people are really at... Because it can come... |
**Elisha Goldstein, PhD:** \[52:15\] Yeah. There's a reason why Brené Brown has sold millions and millions of copies of her books, and her whole work is on vulnerability... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Touché. |
**Elisha Goldstein, PhD:** ...because everyone feels it, and everyone has a fear around it. And from an evolutionary perspective - of course, if you're vulnerable, you don't have your armor on, when someone comes and attacks you, you're more likely to get killed. So our brain records in the same way at an emotional lev... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Sure. The bike trails. The bike trails you mean. \[laughter |
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