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**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Yes, yeah. Right. So again, "I don't know you, can you help me understand you and why behavior X, Y or Z made sense to you?" That helps us then build this broader perspective. Also, how can I see what this person does as relevant to what I do? How can I see myself in their story, or vice versa... |
And then finally, where is the common language? How do we develop a shared language? I think about this - it's interesting hearing other friends in different professions talk about things, and I code-switch it in my brain. One example would be, I always, in talking about what I do in the psychotherapy process, I say I ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. That's true, yeah. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Right? I see this a lot in doing marital therapy, and that I have one partner asked the other, "What did you hear me say?" and the things I hear back, it's like "No, that is not what they said." And so it then becomes this "Try again." Sometimes it involves a person repeating it one more time,... |
So recognizing that and having the person try, try again... There's effort, and you're vicariously showing that you value this other person enough to put forth the conversation to try to understand. This is where the learning comes in, is when I do these things... I can then improve both with myself, and then whatever ... |
We've talked about having a mental framework in previous episodes, and so in what ways is there overlap in our mental models? Or is there a way that our organization as a whole could create a model that enhances the way in which feedback or interpersonal exchanges are given, so that all people feel more understood? Peo... |
• Elisha Goldstein's background as a psychologist and mindfulness educator |
• His experiences with anxiety and depression, and how he found mindfulness through Calm app meditations |
• Writing books on mindfulness-based stress reduction, including "The Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction Workbook" and "The Now Effect" |
• Developing programs for workplace wellness, such as "Mindfulness at Work", which has been replicated across multiple healthcare companies |
• The importance of community and putting oneself in the right environments to facilitate change |
• The role of awareness in change and mindfulness, including the concept that life is decided in the spaces between stimulus and response, where we have power to choose our responses |
• The concept of mindfulness and its practical application in widening the space between stimulus and response. |
• Using the metaphor of "pinch and zoom" to illustrate the process of becoming aware of one's thoughts and emotions, and making intentional choices. |
• The importance of understanding one's core motivations and values in order to make skillful decisions. |
• The role of stress and its effects on the brain's ability to see a broader perspective. |
• The need for self-awareness and permission to prioritize self-care and personal growth. |
• The concept of "default mode" and how it relates to autopilot behavior, and the importance of being aware of one's thoughts and emotions. |
• The relationship between being present and the cortical midline area, which has an inverse relationship with presence |
• The default mode network and its role in stress, including projecting into the future or past |
• Taking moments to lower the volume on the default network through practices like deep breathing, physical relaxation, and self-care |
• Asking oneself what's most important to pay attention to in a given moment |
• Overcoming cultural conditioning that prioritizes productivity over self-care and taking breaks to balance the nervous system |
• The default state of the human brain is driven by survival instincts and perpetuated by negativity bias |
• The prefrontal cortex must be actively engaged to overcome default state and achieve present awareness |
• Negativity bias can lead to addiction to stimulation, including news and social media |
• Mental fitness training is necessary to develop present awareness and self-regulation skills |
• Informal practices such as slowing down and paying attention to breath can begin the process of mental training |
• The goal is to create a new habit of being present and aware in daily life, rather than perpetuating default state. |
• The benefits of slowing down, both physically and mentally |
• How old age can bring a sense of presence and appreciation for details due to slowed physical processes |
• The importance of mindfulness in business and personal life, including slowing down to reflect on needs and priorities |
• Informal ways of practicing mindfulness, such as paying attention to bodily sensations while performing daily tasks |
• Formal mindfulness practices, including guided meditations and structured time-outs for reflection and self-care |
• Distinguishing between mindfulness and meditation, with mindfulness being a broader concept of awareness and meditation being a specific practice of focusing attention |
• Different types of meditation (mindfulness, transcendental, chanting, Christian) and their variations |
• Mindfulness as awareness and its applications in various forms of meditation |
• The importance of relationships and community in mindfulness and overall well-being |
• Connection and interconnection as key factors in feeling safe, secure, and supported |
• The role of environment and social connections in influencing behavior and personal growth |
• The limitations of hyper-connection and digital relationships, including potential feelings of isolation and disconnection |
• Connection in modern society is often superficial and lacking depth. |
• Two-dimensional connections (e.g. social media) can't replace in-person interactions for meaningful relationships. |
• The need for authentic, intentional connection through shared experiences and vulnerability. |
• Research shows that a small number of strong connections is healthier than many weak ones. |
• Meeting people and forming genuine connections becomes more difficult as people age. |
• Fear of vulnerability and being perceived as weak can hinder sharing and connecting with others. |
• Creating contexts where people feel safe to be vulnerable is essential for building trust and connection. |
• Mindfulness allows us to notice reactivity in our nervous system and widen the space between stimulus and response. |
• Being present with ourselves and others can help us relax, feel grounded, and be more authentic. |
• Investing in recognizing individual design and showing up in the world is crucial for personal growth and contributing to society. |
• Slowing down and considering what we're optimizing for is essential for making meaningful decisions. |
• Practicing mindfulness and meditation can lead to a life well-lived, with a focus on relationships and contributions rather than material achievements. |
• End of conversation |
• Acknowledgments from the participants |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Today we're joined by another expert, Dr. Elisha Goldstein. Elisha, I had actually found out about you through Calm, the Calm app. I'm sure you're familiar with that. You've done two different mindfulness, meditation - I don't know what you call those on there, but they're tracks; I listen to them. ... |
**Elisha Goldstein, PhD:** Okay, so... Thanks for that introduction. Yeah, Calm is a great app; I'm on multiple apps, and done hundreds of different meditations over time, and I think for me, I'm a psychologist, and I'm a mindfulness educator, mindfulness just being like intentionally paying attention to our lives, som... |
I've written a number of books over time. The first one was the mindfulness-based stress-reduction workbook which was based on a very popular, global program - an 8-week program started by Jon Kabat-Zinn and Saki Santorelli - and then kind of built on that with different books. The Now Effect - I'm covering happiness, ... |
\[04:09\] I love putting people through programs, especially if they're really engaging and in community, because that's where the real change happens. And I keep writing, so I keep going. |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** Good. Well, that's what I'm most excited about with having you here today, is - you know, not just all the information that you have, but the way in which you've made it so applicable... Because with our community, we talk about the brain - not just what we know about the brain, but how we can... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** How did you get started doing that? I mean, to dig that deep in, to be so accomplished - where did you get your curiosity and your desire for doing this kind of stuff? |
**Elisha Goldstein, PhD:** I think it's the same place a lot of people do. Just to give you just a second of background - in my early 20's I was in San Francisco during the dotcom book, and I was actually in the corporate world, I was in sales, and I was managing sales teams, and I was working hard, and as a lot of peo... |
And I think in that suffering that was there, there was an insight that I cannot continue living this way... And it was this one night that I was south of Market Street with this guy that I told my friends "If you ever catch me with this guy..." This guy just lived a life of a huge amount of trouble... And I was in the... |
I had actually a family intervention close thereafter, and it was requested that I go to this adult retreat outside of Los Angeles... And it was there that I realized that what really mattered to me was being able to be more present in my life, and be more present for the people I love, and to be more focused, and stop... |
So I ended up going back to graduate school, I left the corporate world, went back to graduate school; that's where I came in touch more with the practice of mindfulness, and I got trained as a mindfulness educator there over time, and it's helped me tremendously be able to be aware of the difficulty within myself, the... |
**Mireille Reece, PsyD:** You bring up this huge aspect of life that we talk about a lot, which has to do with awareness, and I love the way that you put this in your book, The Now Effect. You said "The simple, yet subtle truth is that life is decided in the spaces. However, the power to choose our responses comes only... |
\[08:14\] I think that's so significant, because you're getting at there was this moment when time slowed down, even though things were busy around you, that you got a different perspective. So can you talk to our listeners about the role of awareness, as it relates to change, and mindfulness? |
**Elisha Goldstein, PhD:** Yeah. First of all, we all have it... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, we do. \[laughs\] I think we're aware we are aware. |
**Elisha Goldstein, PhD:** Yeah, it's all there... So you just have to stop and pause. We all have experiences of waking up a little bit and saying "Oh, I'm caught in this routine and this patterning" that just happened and blended over time. Sometimes not until we're much older do we wake up. There's a guy - he's pass... |
So what he was saying there, if we kind of fast-forward that to the field of neuroscience for a second - he's saying our brain is wired to make things routine, so we can juggle more complex things over time. It's called procedural memory. Our brain memorizes procedure. And that's healthy in a lot of places, like - now ... |
But what we need to do, and what The Now Effect was based on, as you mentioned, which was this quote by Austrian psychologist, neurologist and Holocaust survivor Viktor Frankl, when he said "Between stimulus and response there's a space. In that space lies our power to choose our response, and in our response lies our ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** As a visual representation of that, I see that as pinching and zooming. In a photo-- |
**Elisha Goldstein, PhD:** Yes, yes, you're zooming in. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** ...you have less detail, and you pinch and zoom in to get more detail of that space, because between those two is your opportunity to choose. And we've talked before about the power of choice. It seems easy just to, I suppose, maybe pontificate the power of choice... But in a practical way, in a ver... |
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