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True | [deleted] | null | [deleted] | null | 0 | 1316880606 | False | 0 | c2m9jqh | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2m9jqh | t1_c2m9c67 | null | 1427641530 | -6 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | [deleted] | null | 0 | 1316880682 | False | 0 | c2m9k0b | t3_kpwjl | null | t1_c2m9k0b | t3_kpwjl | null | 1427641535 | 4 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | crusoe | null | Lets see....
No real/high performance collection classes. No real namespacing. No module system. Goofy assignment/comparison rules that can produce subtle bugs. No library format. No way to precompile and manage artifacts.
Out of the gate, Javascript is much worse off than Python.
I'd even say Ruby's monkey patching makes it unsuitable for maintaining large software. The Rails framework itself is proof of that, though they are cleaning it up in Rails 3.
| null | 0 | 1316880754 | False | 0 | c2m9k9d | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2m9k9d | t1_c2m9gl7 | null | 1427641538 | 33 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | PimpDawg | null | I prefer BDD - Buzzword-Driven-Development. It's worked wonders for my consulting career. What, you no buzzword X compliant? Allow me to invoice you for this fix... | null | 0 | 1316880912 | False | 0 | c2m9ksx | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2m9ksx | t3_kq001 | null | 1427641546 | 67 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | [deleted] | null | 0 | 1316880947 | False | 0 | c2m9kxc | t3_kos4z | null | t1_c2m9kxc | t1_c2m8aep | null | 1427641549 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | [deleted] | null | 0 | 1316881039 | False | 0 | c2m9l8f | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2m9l8f | t1_c2m9gcv | null | 1427641556 | 18 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | severeon | null | While harsh, I agree - We've been using NodeJS for months now; and, honestly we couldn't be happier. Our technology stack is a few custom NodeJS servers interconnected by a custom NodeJS process manager, a MySQL cluster, and a MongoDB box. When we switched from python we were immediately able to shut off a couple API servers due to reduced system load...
Also, the added benefit of being able to use the exact same code on the client and server is worth its weight in gold. | null | 0 | 1316881094 | False | 0 | c2m9lex | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2m9lex | t1_c2m9jlp | null | 1427641561 | 21 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | [deleted] | null | 0 | 1316881211 | False | 0 | c2m9lsr | t3_kpvrq | null | t1_c2m9lsr | t3_kpvrq | null | 1427641566 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | [deleted] | null | 0 | 1316881351 | False | 0 | c2m9mak | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2m9mak | t1_c2m9gcv | null | 1427641572 | 6 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | huhlig | null | Hey, sounds like you are describing php! | null | 0 | 1316881406 | False | 0 | c2m9mhe | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2m9mhe | t1_c2m9k9d | null | 1427641575 | 25 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | k4st | null | The following should be a pretty straight-forward way of handling it, where "else if" is not special.
stmts --> ...
if_stmt --> "if" expr "{" stmts "}" else_stmt
else_stmt --> "else" if_stmt | "else" "{" stmts "}" | \epsilon
| null | 0 | 1316881407 | False | 0 | c2m9mhi | t3_kooiy | null | t1_c2m9mhi | t1_c2m5q7r | null | 1427641575 | 0 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | MarshallBanana | null | Do you get paid a lot?
If so, would you fix this code for me? | null | 0 | 1316881411 | False | 0 | c2m9mi1 | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2m9mi1 | t1_c2m9jqh | null | 1427641575 | 14 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | jmking | null | TDD is extremely valuable for elaborate or sensitive business logic. If you have complex conditions and a wide variety of scenarios, well thought out tests can save you a ton of time and get you better code.
It also gives you the freedom to refactor parts of it, or extend it to handle a new condition with the confidence that you aren't breaking the 83 other possible outcomes.
If you're writing tests to make sure simple CRUD actions are working, you're wasting your time. It's about finding the right balance.
Edit: grammar | null | 0 | 1316881424 | True | 0 | c2m9mji | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2m9mji | t3_kq001 | null | 1427641577 | 164 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | [deleted] | null | 0 | 1316881595 | False | 0 | c2m9n7u | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2m9n7u | t3_kq27q | null | 1427641582 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | staticfish | null | There are 64bit releases of Chrome? I haven't been able to find one. | null | 0 | 1316881609 | False | 0 | c2m9na3 | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2m9na3 | t3_kq27q | null | 1427641583 | 0 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | [deleted] | null | 0 | 1316881709 | False | 0 | c2m9nn2 | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2m9nn2 | t1_c2m9mhe | null | 1427641587 | -1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | [deleted] | null | 0 | 1316881768 | False | 0 | c2m9nvv | t3_kos4z | null | t1_c2m9nvv | t3_kos4z | null | 1427641593 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | [deleted] | null | 0 | 1316881775 | False | 0 | c2m9nws | t3_kq45b | null | t1_c2m9nws | t3_kq45b | null | 1427641593 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | rabootcha | null | It works for what I need it for. I need a very good reason to invest the time to learn a new language if my shit works well enough without it. | null | 0 | 1316881949 | False | 0 | c2m9oja | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2m9oja | t1_c2m9k9d | null | 1427641599 | -4 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | shevegen | null | And so do many other languages.
This isn't a compelling reason to use Clojure.
It reads like a joke. | null | 0 | 1316881954 | False | 0 | c2m9ok5 | t3_kpk8d | null | t1_c2m9ok5 | t1_c2m8582 | null | 1427641600 | -10 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | generalT | null | care to elaborate? | null | 0 | 1316881992 | False | 0 | c2m9op0 | t3_korcu | null | t1_c2m9op0 | t1_c2m0esy | null | 1427641611 | 2 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | IvyMike | null | I don't know, but he's not talking about Chrome, he's talking about using the V8 javascript engine in a 64-bit server-side process. | null | 0 | 1316882032 | False | 0 | c2m9oub | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2m9oub | t1_c2m9na3 | null | 1427641602 | 23 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | lumponmygroin | null | I've never really understood what "Mozart" actually is and the Wikipedia page is a bit light.
Can anyone give a simple explanation / explainlikeimfive? | null | 0 | 1316882057 | False | 0 | c2m9oxo | t3_kpwjl | null | t1_c2m9oxo | t3_kpwjl | null | 1427641604 | 6 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | rabootcha | null | Agree. And working with websocket connections is so much fun now. No other language does it better. | null | 0 | 1316882085 | False | 0 | c2m9p1o | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2m9p1o | t1_c2m9lex | null | 1427641605 | 5 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | pl0nk | null | What behavior would you drive off this tag? What problem would it solve? I'm not saying this is a bad idea, I am just curious what aspect of language versioning you propose to solve here. | null | 0 | 1316882118 | False | 0 | c2m9p66 | t3_kos4z | null | t1_c2m9p66 | t1_c2m8b98 | null | 1427641607 | 6 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | staticfish | null | Gotcha, | null | 0 | 1316882118 | False | 0 | c2m9p69 | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2m9p69 | t1_c2m9oub | null | 1427641607 | 5 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | fatgram10 | null | A good rule of thumb is that if your tests are hideously sensitive and complicated to set up, the root cause is often code that could be structured better. | null | 0 | 1316882231 | False | 0 | c2m9pm5 | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2m9pm5 | t1_c2m8qvx | null | 1427641614 | 16 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | pievendor | null | You agreed but then proceeded to bring up points completely counter to crusoe's statement. | null | 0 | 1316882468 | False | 0 | c2m9qg0 | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2m9qg0 | t1_c2m9lex | null | 1427641629 | 44 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | What? This is amateur hour stuff here? Not using size_t for storing the **size** of objects is inexcusable. Especially for a project started in the 00's. I'm honestly surprised at Google for this. | null | 0 | 1316882521 | False | 0 | c2m9qn4 | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2m9qn4 | t1_c2m9gcv | null | 1427641632 | 12 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | toaster13 | null | >It is vital for my server-side work that V8 supports at least 32GB memory sizes.
No. No it isn't. Stop. You're doing it wrong. | null | 0 | 1316882571 | False | 0 | c2m9qua | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2m9qua | t3_kq27q | null | 1427641643 | 39 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | fatgram10 | null | About a year ago, automated tests on the codebase my team worked on were a joke. After some heavy refactoring (which was scary, given we had low test coverage) and runtime dependency tweaking (read: embracing Guice Injection), we're in the greenest-grass place I've ever seen our product. Often times, tests (be they unit or integration) are easier to write that the to-be-implemented code itself (which also became easier to write in almost all cases).
I'd leave you all with this: to pick up TDD like it's some dogma that must be followed to the death is a mistake (as it would be with any methodology). However, to go any significant distance in the opposite direction on the should-I-use-TDD? spectrum can be just as fatal of a decision. | null | 0 | 1316882587 | False | 0 | c2m9qwu | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2m9qwu | t3_kq001 | null | 1427641635 | 78 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | rabootcha | null | Why is it wrong? You don't even know what he's working on.
| null | 0 | 1316882635 | False | 0 | c2m9r3u | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2m9r3u | t1_c2m9qua | null | 1428193042 | 35 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | fatgram10 | null | Thank you. I feel like people are trying to pull a straw man against TDD here. | null | 0 | 1316882734 | False | 0 | c2m9rgi | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2m9rgi | t1_c2m9mji | null | 1427641640 | 20 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | sreguera | null | Basically, Mozart is an (ok, *the*) implementation of the [Oz programming language](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oz_programming_language). | null | 0 | 1316882765 | False | 0 | c2m9rl4 | t3_kpwjl | null | t1_c2m9rl4 | t1_c2m9oxo | null | 1427641642 | 11 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | cyancynic | null | It only has to run well on webkit. Maybe you should read the article | null | 0 | 1316882810 | False | 0 | c2m9rrb | t3_kpgmn | null | t1_c2m9rrb | t1_c2m5mu8 | null | 1427641644 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | dyydvujbxs | null | That is a weird question to ask.
No, the version we are using didn't suddenly stop working any more frequently than it previously had. But it is buggy and we suddenly have lower our expectation that the bugs would be fixed in an open source release in the sufficiently near feature, and that the mutual aid support community would be sufficiently vibrant . | null | 0 | 1316882829 | False | 0 | c2m9rtu | t3_kpecl | null | t1_c2m9rtu | t1_c2m87hs | null | 1427641646 | 4 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | cyancynic | null | Depends. You can do offline web apps as a local directory. | null | 0 | 1316882968 | False | 0 | c2m9sdf | t3_kpgmn | null | t1_c2m9sdf | t1_c2m5961 | null | 1427641651 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | severeon | null | Perhaps I didn't understand his intent - I figured, due to the ellipsis, that he was quoting someone, then directly refuting it...
I suppose you're right though. To be clear, I think the first two lines of his post are bollocks. | null | 0 | 1316882989 | False | 0 | c2m9sgf | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2m9sgf | t1_c2m9qg0 | null | 1427641652 | 4 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | > This is idiocy during a design or hacking or greenfield phase of development.
Don't write *any* code during the design phase. The "hacking on greenfield" phase should only exist in prototyping.
> Allowing your tests to dictate your code (rather than influence the design of modular code) and to dictate your design because you wrote over-invasive test is a massive fail.
Letting the tests dictate how your code looks is actually a good thing, because it's hard to write code which is testable and tightly coupled. The more modular the code is, the easier it is to test.
> Even if you write only some tests first, if you want to do it meaningfully, then you either need to zoom down in to tiny bits of functionality first in order to be able to write those tests,
In unit testing one should **always** test bits of functionality called 'methods'. If you find them to big to test, split them up in several smaller ones.
> or you write a test that requires most of the software to be finished, or you cheat and fudge it. The former is the right approach in a small number of situations - tests around bugs, or small, very well-defined pieces of functionality).
If your unit tests require most of the software to be finished they are no unit tests. That using test data and mock objects is cheating to him, tells me he has never understood the basics of unit testing.
| null | 0 | 1316883038 | False | 0 | c2m9snj | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2m9snj | t3_kq001 | null | 1427641656 | 26 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | marssaxman | null | Oh, no, I've been hacking since the mid-'80s, and I've seen all kinds of weird proprietary protocols come and go.
The difference with Google is that they are publishing and promoting their protocol, and doing so independently of any product line or licensing agreement. You don't have to buy in to the google system if you want to use it: you can look at the docs, hell you can look at their implementation of it in the Chromium source code, and you can copy it in your own system without having to sign anything or pay them anything.
| null | 0 | 1316883053 | True | 0 | c2m9spm | t3_kp1b5 | null | t1_c2m9spm | t1_c2m87ct | null | 1427641656 | 19 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | alekseykorzun | null | "~140K websockets concurrent connections using node.js"
No thanks. | null | 0 | 1316883065 | False | 0 | c2m9sre | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2m9sre | t3_kq27q | null | 1427641667 | 35 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | mistralol | null |
I find that TDD tends to make software that passes the test. It can still fail in the real world.
| null | 0 | 1316883094 | False | 0 | c2m9sun | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2m9sun | t3_kq001 | null | 1427641657 | 24 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | toaster13 | null | I can't imagine a project that needs "at least" 32G of memory in V8 that *should* be done in JS. It is highly likely there are much better suited languages for whatever this project is. I would say the same if the request was related to an HTML rendering engine or even perl or ruby, frankly. | null | 0 | 1316883178 | False | 0 | c2m9t72 | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2m9t72 | t1_c2m9r3u | null | 1427641662 | 35 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | fjonk | null | Tests also gives you an indication of how complex, in a bad way, your system is. Does the tests require a huge amount of setup before they can perform the actual testing you might want to check your design.
It's also a quite nice way to actually get some 'feeling' for how the result will feel like when you're actually using it. Since you have to write code in the tests you might discover some bad design decisions, especially when it comes to names and parameters. The 'this feels awkward'-feeling can be hard to get when you're designing. | null | 0 | 1316883418 | False | 0 | c2m9u3g | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2m9u3g | t1_c2m9mji | null | 1427641673 | 19 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | frtox | null | Dawid Loubser just took a shit all over this article in the comments | null | 0 | 1316883426 | False | 0 | c2m9u47 | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2m9u47 | t3_kq001 | null | 1427641675 | 27 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | Seriously? Silverlight is heads and tails above winforms lob dev. You have to solve different problems, granted, but I'd much rather solve silverlight problems then have to maintain winforms frameworks to do offer basic lob functionality in tightly coupled ways. | null | 0 | 1316883483 | False | 0 | c2m9uch | t3_ko2wv | null | t1_c2m9uch | t1_c2m2icq | null | 1427641678 | 0 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | boa13 | null | > So what? Do what needs to be done!
This was corrected about one month after the bug was filed, about one year ago. | null | 0 | 1316883669 | False | 0 | c2m9v31 | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2m9v31 | t1_c2m9gcv | null | 1427641685 | 7 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | poco | null | A bit late to the party, but I would counter you suggestion that they are sometimes good by asking I if anyone can name or describe an existing software patent that would not have been invented without patent protection. That is, something we can reasonably imagine simply not existing at all because the inventor couldn't get a patent. | null | 0 | 1316883746 | False | 0 | c2m9ve7 | t3_kosg9 | null | t1_c2m9ve7 | t1_c2m0e1u | null | 1427641694 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | Aninhumer | null | They were valid identifiers before, which meant you could assign values to them. I'm not quite sure why they made them keywords rather than literals though. | null | 0 | 1316883771 | False | 0 | c2m9vho | t3_kos4z | null | t1_c2m9vho | t1_c2m98g0 | null | 1427641689 | 3 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | EugeneKay | null | Ooooh, a distro war! How novel and quirky!
The point is that widespread adoption is choked by the lack of distribution support...... telling people to switch distros for $PACKAGE has never, ever worked. | null | 0 | 1316883891 | False | 0 | c2m9vy4 | t3_kpecl | null | t1_c2m9vy4 | t1_c2m8qv9 | null | 1427641697 | 10 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | TrevorBradley | null | It's like sending out scouts in battle. You can't win with them, but without them, you *can't win*. | null | 0 | 1316883916 | False | 0 | c2m9w1m | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2m9w1m | t3_kq001 | null | 1427641698 | 3 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | EugeneKay | null | If you're paying me to deploy a performance-optimized stack, I would be glad to compile it all from source and maintain a rpm/deb channel, and perhaps even create a custom minimalist distribution for the application servers.
But you're not. So I won't. This is true of $BIGNUM% of MySQL installs. | null | 0 | 1316884081 | False | 0 | c2m9wnz | t3_kpecl | null | t1_c2m9wnz | t1_c2m8jbh | null | 1427641706 | 6 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | creaothceann | null | My point is, the answer in that thread wasn't really a good reason. | null | 0 | 1316884146 | False | 0 | c2m9wxc | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2m9wxc | t1_c2m9v31 | null | 1427641705 | -7 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | MagicWishMonkey | null | All code could potentially be structured better. That's pretty much irrelevant if there's no budget to do it.
Paying a few QA folks $20/hour to spend a few weeks beating the crap out of an application is a lot cheaper than giving your developers a few extra weeks to build an elaborate test harness framework. | null | 0 | 1316884286 | False | 0 | c2m9xhn | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2m9xhn | t1_c2m9pm5 | null | 1427641711 | 10 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | jzwinck | null | Bloomberg LP (a financial technology provider employing a couple thousand developers) has been using Javascript on 24-core and larger servers for roughly five years. They don't use V8, though. Also, even though it's server-side, it's used to power graphical applications--not for number-crunching. | null | 0 | 1316884309 | False | 0 | c2m9xl6 | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2m9xl6 | t1_c2m9jlp | null | 1427641713 | 8 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | garymrush | null | The author is railing against a straw man TDD. If you're trying to write all your tests before coding, that's not TDD. Write a test until it fails, stop. Write code until it passes, stop. Refactor, stop, repeat.
If your tests are complex, that's a smell that your code is too complex. Refactor out that complexity, and write a simple test against it. If you're trying to catch your bugs at some mythical waterfall-integration phase, you're wasting everybody's time. | null | 0 | 1316884311 | False | 0 | c2m9xlh | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2m9xlh | t3_kq001 | null | 1427641713 | 26 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | It's "begs", not "pegs". That's also not the right way to use the expression:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question | null | 0 | 1316884339 | False | 0 | c2m9xph | t3_kpwjl | null | t1_c2m9xph | t1_c2m8eqg | null | 1427641713 | 3 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | [deleted] | null | 0 | 1316884381 | False | 0 | c2m9xva | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2m9xva | t1_c2m9ksx | null | 1427641718 | 37 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | [deleted] | null | 0 | 1316884430 | False | 0 | c2m9y30 | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2m9y30 | t1_c2m9xlh | null | 1427641718 | 24 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | pievendor | null | Certainly agree it [**ed**: crusoe's post] was unnecessarily opinionated. Regardless, it sounds like you've got a good project going on. Keep up the good work. :) | null | 0 | 1316884437 | False | 0 | c2m9y3t | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2m9y3t | t1_c2m9sgf | null | 1427641718 | 4 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | twoodfin | null | That assumes every connection between two hosts takes and retains the same route, which is an explicit non-goal of IP. IP tries to route efficiently rather than predictably. As a result, TCP has to treat each connection independently for purposes of flow control.
| null | 0 | 1316884592 | False | 0 | c2m9yok | t3_kp1b5 | null | t1_c2m9yok | t1_c2m8hr1 | null | 1427641726 | 5 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | _pupil_ | null | Of course when your test-supported code fails in the real world you enhance the test suite, and then that code never ever ever gets to fail that way in, or out of, production again.
Lather, rinse, repeat over 3 or 4 years and... things start to feel pretty darned bullet proof. | null | 0 | 1316884596 | False | 0 | c2m9yp6 | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2m9yp6 | t1_c2m9sun | null | 1427641726 | 17 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | StrawberryFrog | null | An annoying, facile, poorly argued article. | null | 0 | 1316884607 | False | 0 | c2m9yqy | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2m9yqy | t3_kq001 | null | 1428193040 | 7 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | xsmasher | null | *Having unit tests* is extremely valuable for elaborate or sensitive business logic. I see great value in having unit tests, but less value in insisting that the tests get written before the code they test. | null | 0 | 1316884641 | False | 0 | c2m9yvv | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2m9yvv | t1_c2m9mji | null | 1427641728 | 115 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | D_rock | null | >Again the literary reference is completely out of bounds. Words, nouns, phrases, genres, subject matter, ideas, nothing of the sort can be patented.
All software is an abstraction and combination of pure mathematics. The PTO has ruled that mathematical equations are not patent-able. If you accept that mathematics is a language, I'd say the analogy holds.
| null | 0 | 1316884667 | False | 0 | c2m9z0c | t3_kosg9 | null | t1_c2m9z0c | t1_c2m2yd4 | null | 1427641730 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | terrdc | null | I think that the issue with TDD is that it doesn't make bad developers better off.
Most widespread advancements are about keeping the crappiest developers from making an unintelligible mess.
But bad code will just lead to worthless tests. And then the bad developers will be completely right when they say TDD doesn't help them at all. | null | 0 | 1316884684 | False | 0 | c2m9z2z | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2m9z2z | t1_c2m9mji | null | 1427641731 | 15 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | therapy | null | That makes sense, thanks! | null | 0 | 1316884718 | False | 0 | c2m9z88 | t3_kos4z | null | t1_c2m9z88 | t1_c2m88il | null | 1427641734 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | jmdugan | null | well, I disagree. TDD primarily is becuase you don't work in a bubble.
this author is displaying typical selfishness of the self-proclaimed "expert"
the place TDD helps is **NOT YOU** - it's the poor sod who has to maintain your code 2 years from now, and the other developers who have to clean up your bonehead mistakes. focussing on testing (first, last, whenever) takes 2x longer, is harder to do, and generally slows development. that said, for projects I build, and developers I hire - they write good testing suites, every time, or the work is not done.
| null | 0 | 1316884746 | False | 0 | c2m9zc3 | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2m9zc3 | t3_kq001 | null | 1427641734 | 10 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | I don't think x86_64 is on the '0.1, very first ever public release' roadmap. It's scheduled, but over the past year or so they've mostly just been working the kinks out of their ABI and language. | null | 0 | 1316884752 | False | 0 | c2m9zcv | t3_kos4z | null | t1_c2m9zcv | t1_c2m8h6d | null | 1427641736 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | creaothceann | null | You *have* to do it, paid or not, otherwise the project stalls. It's refactoring. | null | 0 | 1316884760 | False | 0 | c2m9zdw | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2m9zdw | t1_c2m9mak | null | 1427641736 | -9 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | RagingAnemone | null | Ya I hate those kind of guys. My Kung Fu is greater than your Kung Fu. | null | 0 | 1316884763 | False | 0 | c2m9zeq | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2m9zeq | t1_c2m9u47 | null | 1427641736 | 14 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | wolf550e | null | If you ever need to scale, or ever need to keep working when the virtualizer gives you too little cycles, you will find that a piece of software written with memory layout and performance in mind is more than ten times faster or cheaper to run. In bad cases, it's a thousand times faster or cheaper to run. | null | 0 | 1316884784 | False | 0 | c2m9zht | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2m9zht | t1_c2m9oja | null | 1427641736 | 7 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | _pupil_ | null | As he should have.
TL;DR: Guy who doesn't totally get unit testing points out the blatantly obvious, whines about buzzwords, whines about the things he doesn't quite get. Also thinks he can tell his team before-hand how his code is going to fail and interact with external components.
See also: "my code always compiles the first time, intellisense and static typing are for suckers." | null | 0 | 1316884871 | False | 0 | c2m9zus | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2m9zus | t1_c2m9u47 | null | 1427641742 | 8 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | D_rock | null | >Allowing software patents helps us because we get to see the code right away, and after a period, it becomes public domain.
The PTO doesn't like code to be placed in a patent. Remember you are not patenting software you are patent a business method. You are patenting an idea only.
Like others have said the alternative is copyright. Copyright was all that was allowed until the mid 90s. The software industry worked nicely in the 80s and 90s even without patents. | null | 0 | 1316884922 | False | 0 | c2ma02u | t3_kosg9 | null | t1_c2ma02u | t1_c2lywmg | null | 1427641745 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | k1n6 | null | For small-team projects, and especially web applications, TDD is far superior to most alternatives. This is notwithstanding some software teams or people who aren't used to, or capable of, TDD. | null | 0 | 1316884965 | False | 0 | c2ma094 | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2ma094 | t3_kq001 | null | 1427641746 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | streeter | null | Yeah, I'm seeing a blank spot where the petition should obviously be. ??? | null | 0 | 1316884990 | False | 0 | c2ma0cy | t3_kosg9 | null | t1_c2ma0cy | t1_c2lzg5c | null | 1427641749 | 2 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | doenietzomoeilijk | null | > Have to open a web browser to start an application
On iOS you can make bookmarks into clickable icons, I'm pretty certain there's something similar on Android. Yes, they'll have to be linked to your app or tap in the URL for first use, but that's about it. Comparable with having to install something.
> Not native application settings page
Agreed on that one.
| null | 0 | 1316884990 | False | 0 | c2ma0cz | t3_kpgmn | null | t1_c2ma0cz | t1_c2m9a3n | null | 1427641749 | 2 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | FearlessFreep | null | > Paying a few QA folks $20/hour to spend a few weeks beating the crap out of an application is a lot cheaper than giving your developers a few extra weeks to build an elaborate test harness framework.
No because then you still have to pay the devs and the qa folks a few more weeks to fix what qa found when they spent a few weeks beating the crap out of an application
| null | 0 | 1316884996 | False | 0 | c2ma0du | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2ma0du | t1_c2m9xhn | null | 1427641749 | 12 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | Why the fuck is anyone writing an application that consumes 32GB of memory in Javascript?
I'd ask the same about Python, Ruby or even Java. When you're getting to that level of memory consumption, it's time to work in a language that gives you more control over memory management. | null | 0 | 1316885041 | False | 0 | c2ma0km | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2ma0km | t3_kq27q | null | 1427641753 | 25 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | ansible | null | Um, yeah, fine.
In contrast, take a look at the [testing SQLite undergoes](http://www.sqlite.org/testing.html) as part of each release, and tell me that it doesn't contribute to the high release quality for that project.
TDD has been misapplied to one-off web administration interfaces, but TDD can very usefully be applied to core libraries that are used on many projects. | null | 0 | 1316885043 | False | 0 | c2ma0kq | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2ma0kq | t3_kq001 | null | 1427641753 | -2 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | _pupil_ | null | QA is good at showing the existence of bugs, not eliminating them.
If a team is using weeks on test harnesses chances are that their app isn't as modular as they think it is, or (from the non-TDD projects I've reviewed), that IoC and dependency injection are foreign concepts. | null | 0 | 1316885066 | False | 0 | c2ma0oa | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2ma0oa | t1_c2m9xhn | null | 1427641753 | 5 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | doenietzomoeilijk | null | That, and you don't get the exposure from sitting in an app store, either. I haven't done any mobile app development myself, and sure, I've read plenty of horror stories about getting stuff past Apple, but once you're in you're bound to get some users from just being there. | null | 0 | 1316885103 | False | 0 | c2ma0tn | t3_kpgmn | null | t1_c2ma0tn | t1_c2m94e3 | null | 1427641755 | 2 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | Timmmmbob | null | Ah good point. | null | 0 | 1316885121 | False | 0 | c2ma0we | t3_kp1b5 | null | t1_c2ma0we | t1_c2m9yok | null | 1427641755 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | masterblastercaster | null | And in turn proved what his article was talking about, baha. | null | 0 | 1316885159 | False | 0 | c2ma11r | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2ma11r | t1_c2m9u47 | null | 1427641757 | 5 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | doenietzomoeilijk | null | The best web frameworks are the ones that aren't written, you mean? =] | null | 0 | 1316885179 | False | 0 | c2ma14b | t3_kpgmn | null | t1_c2ma14b | t1_c2m898m | null | 1427641757 | 1 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | severeon | null | Thanks, and we will. We've had setbacks, as is to be expected with any start-up, but we're moving along at a steady pace - not to advertise (which is exactly what I'm about to do), but if you got a minute check out our project: Listener Approved
You should be able to find us by way of any major search engine (we aren't launched yet, so going to listenerapproved.com is less than eventful) | null | 0 | 1316885292 | False | 0 | c2ma1if | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2ma1if | t1_c2m9y3t | null | 1427641763 | 4 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | north-and-south | null | It may seem a lot cheaper in the short run, but the long run? It sounds like you're advocating a no-developer-test approach. How about when the code is put into production and pieces of the team move on? Maintaining a codebase covered by a suite of coded/automated tests, test first or not, over simply throwing new changes over the fence to the QA team is the difference between a mature/productive team and...well...everyone else. | null | 0 | 1316885375 | False | 0 | c2ma1ut | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2ma1ut | t1_c2m9xhn | null | 1427641767 | 0 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | masterblastercaster | null | No one knows what the fuck TDD is. Even those who are going "no you're doing it wrong!" or "no you're missing the point!" have any fucking clue.
That's the thing with flavor of the month for software engineering, it's a bunch of smoke and mirrors. Sure, there's something usable in there some where, but you'll have to wade through a shit lake to get to it. | null | 0 | 1316885384 | False | 0 | c2ma1vb | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2ma1vb | t3_kq001 | null | 1427641767 | -2 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | _pupil_ | null | There are different levels of testing: acceptance, integration, unit, etc.
In some scenarios you can easily do without some/all of them, but they all provide their own benefits to systems.
Re - integration tests: Half the reason that dependency injection and IoC frameworks are so common in the 'test-driven' community is so that you can produce cheap solutions to integration tests. If you practice something like DDD, for example, you can create very cheap tests that hit the trickiest logic in your app while leaving the DB, or any other component, entirely out of it... View Models are another concept that tend to break down supposed barriers to testability in web apps. | null | 0 | 1316885467 | False | 0 | c2ma26p | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2ma26p | t1_c2m8qvx | null | 1427641772 | 2 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | jmking | null | That's true. Whether you write your tests before or after can be debated. I say do what is most advantageous for the situation. For something complex, I like to write them before because that exercise also helps me design it.
I could sit down and plan it out with UML or something, or I could just start writing tests and work it out from there. Once I have my basic set of core tests for that bit of logic done, I'll have a really good idea of how I'm going to build this particular component.
Once I get those tests to pass, I'll come back and write some more tests to fill in some blanks and some edge cases I may not have considered up front.
I don't think you necessarily have to write 100% of your tests up front to be practicing test-driven development, but some purists may disagree. | null | 0 | 1316885559 | False | 0 | c2ma2jp | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2ma2jp | t1_c2m9yvv | null | 1427641777 | 4 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | [deleted] | null | [deleted] | null | 0 | 1316885650 | False | 0 | c2ma2w5 | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2ma2w5 | t1_c2m9yvv | null | 1427641780 | 72 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | jmking | null | You're right - bad tests aren't going to help anything and in many cases will hurt a project. | null | 0 | 1316885668 | False | 0 | c2ma2y8 | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2ma2y8 | t1_c2m9z2z | null | 1427641782 | 3 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | north-and-south | null | Of course it can still fail in the real world. It's been said time and time again that there are no single silver-bullets in software. Anybody who claims otherwise is trying to sell you something (probably agile consulting services...or a book). | null | 0 | 1316885670 | False | 0 | c2ma2yl | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2ma2yl | t1_c2m9sun | null | 1427641782 | 5 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | kamatsu | null | > If you're trying to write all your tests before coding, that's not TDD.
Robert C. Martin, who loves his TDD, actually advocated running a small test suite every time a single line of code is changed, and if you ever want to make changes to the code, you must first write a failing test for it that will be passed when it is completed - if the tests passed, you aren't allowed to edit the code. So, when major TDD advocates spout this kind of bullshit, the author can be excused for tearing down a strawman. | null | 0 | 1316885792 | False | 0 | c2ma3fc | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2ma3fc | t1_c2m9xlh | null | 1427641797 | 14 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | zero_iq | null | > No real/high performance collection classes. No real namespacing. No module system. Goofy assignment/comparison rules that can produce subtle bugs. No library format. No way to precompile and manage artifacts.
Oh, just like C then? ;) | null | 0 | 1316885800 | False | 0 | c2ma3ge | t3_kq27q | null | t1_c2ma3ge | t1_c2m9k9d | null | 1427641788 | 16 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | sjw79 | null | Why C? Symbolic manipulation is so much nicer in Haskell/ML/whatever. | null | 0 | 1316885803 | False | 0 | c2ma3gr | t3_kpqzv | null | t1_c2ma3gr | t3_kpqzv | null | 1427641788 | -2 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | _pupil_ | null | > *...he has never understood the basics of unit testing.*
Ding, ding, ding. Thread over :)
In addition to the points you made, after railing about how 'hocus' it is to write tests first he stumbles onto one of the bigger reasons to test first: when adding new functionality to an already tested program it is easy and makes sense to add corresponding tests and he derives value from it. The corollary to that is that absent tests, it's *hard* to add tests, and by extension, hard to ensure quality.
So the question becomes, if it's hard to test your big ball of mud and you want that insight, how do you test it? Much like driving off the road, the real solution is to not get there in the first place. | null | 0 | 1316885821 | False | 0 | c2ma3jc | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2ma3jc | t1_c2m9snj | null | 1428193037 | 16 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | _pupil_ | null | *"Hey everyone! See that thing I don't quite get? It totally sucks for a bunch of reasons that are irrelevant, also I heard a consultant talk about it once. Let's all boo together now!"* | null | 0 | 1316885958 | False | 0 | c2ma42r | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2ma42r | t1_c2m9rgi | null | 1427641800 | 23 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | mm9k | null | >Dawid Loubser said...
>You seem to live in a world of hacking together toy software. One day when you become a software ENGINEER who has to build complex, long-lived software as part of a team of people, following modern engineering practices (model-driven development, design-by-contract), upon which people's well-being depends, you will change your tune, I suspect. As son as you have DESIGNED a component (at any level of granularity) you can derive a good set of test cases for it using established techniques developed by the testing community over decades. But you don't design, do you? Your strongly-worded hissy-fit of a blog post suggests that you are far from being a professional, and I hope you're not writing any important software (for the good of mankind).
>
>If you ally wanted to attack test-driven development, you could at least have taken the time to learn what it's all about, and could have tried to construct halfway-decent logical arguments against the (alleged, according to you) benefits. Instead, it seems you had a really bad day trying to write some complex code, and instead of kicking your dog, decided to add this giant fit of misunderstanding to the world.
>
>Perhaps you should focus on the skills that good software engineers really are made of. (Hint: it's not programming.)
>24 September 2011 08:09
| null | 0 | 1316885972 | False | 0 | c2ma44y | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2ma44y | t1_c2m9u47 | null | 1427641811 | 37 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
True | tau-lepton | null | Does anyone smell a cowboy? | null | 0 | 1316886012 | False | 0 | c2ma49v | t3_kq001 | null | t1_c2ma49v | t3_kq001 | null | 1427641802 | 7 | t5_2fwo | null | null | null |
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