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True
toaster13
null
Just for the hell of it I am going to make 150,000 connections in another language. I bet you I can do it in less than 32G ;-)
null
0
1316897907
False
0
c2mbe5e
t3_kq27q
null
t1_c2mbe5e
t1_c2maxzg
null
1427642406
14
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
terror406
null
Sure, I usually hack the first design together before I start writing test, but at least I'll admit it's because I'm a lazy fuck who is is only slowly getting into the discipline of writing tests first. I don't need half-baked strawman arguments and insults to cover up my own weaknesses, like the author seems to need.
null
0
1316897907
False
0
c2mbe5j
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbe5j
t3_kq001
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1427642406
5
t5_2fwo
null
null
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True
henk53
null
They had, but RTFA; Eclipse didn't want to take the risk to release 'official' support for syntax that wasn't officially final at the time. Netbeans did take that risk. (of course, the Netbeans team being part of Oracle could have access to inside information or might have gotten a promise the syntax absolutely wouldn't change)
null
0
1316897954
False
0
c2mbeco
t3_kq0ms
null
t1_c2mbeco
t1_c2mbcp2
null
1427642407
10
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
gthank
null
That doesn't sound accurate. Are you thinking of the front-end, which is written in GWT?
null
0
1316898066
False
0
c2mberl
t3_kq27q
null
t1_c2mberl
t1_c2mae3l
null
1427642411
4
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
staticfish
null
Sweet. Thanks. Pity it's Linux only at the moment.
null
0
1316898129
False
0
c2mbf07
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null
t1_c2mbf07
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null
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1
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
gthank
null
I thought the limitation itself was a bit shocking. Hard to believe that such a large project was using `int` instead of `size_t`. The people whining were irritating, though.
null
0
1316898205
False
0
c2mbfad
t3_kq27q
null
t1_c2mbfad
t1_c2m9c67
null
1427642415
2
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
mushishi
null
Yes. It seems many an ideology tries to replace thinking by a process that should enforce that everything will go like a train. In my opinion, software development practioners need to focus on context based thinking, not mechanisms that are thought out by other people never even seen your particular domain problem and technology combination.
null
0
1316898236
False
0
c2mbfe2
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbfe2
t1_c2mb256
null
1427642416
5
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
robertwilliams
null
It's not a "hack" - it's a feature of TDD. In my experience, it's hard to design things well in my head or on the whiteboard. I do get an idea of what classes I'll need and generally what they do (CRC method usually) but only as a starting point. The actual design (which is to say, the code) evolves only *as I use it*. TDD enforces cohesion and loose coupling in ways that pretty UML diagrams never will. It also gives you the tools you need to safely change that design - provided you design your tests well. If you do "test later" then in my experience you wind up hacking the design to add in the tests, making the tests and code tightly coupled and the whole design very brittle.
null
0
1316898293
False
0
c2mbflf
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbflf
t1_c2mb256
null
1427642419
7
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
hasslemaster
null
You do understand that there is a galaxy's worth of difference between an civil engineer and a software engineer, right?
null
0
1316898302
False
0
c2mbfmk
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbfmk
t1_c2mbbzi
null
1427642419
7
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
BraveSirRobin
null
My problem (which the article mentions) is that it sometimes leads to bad designs. Quite often private methods and fields need to be exposed to make the test possible. This irks me greatly; I do it because the tests are useful but it's just crying out for someone to misuse the classes in future.
null
0
1316898461
False
0
c2mbg9l
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbg9l
t1_c2ma4kl
null
1427642427
10
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
terror406
null
Clearly, you don't understand what TDD or unit testing is. I know the word "test" is confusing, but it isn't about "testing things first", it is about *designing things first*, just like your father does. The only difference is that since it is *soft*ware, you can design by writing a test that not only describes the solution, but can be ran against the actual implementation to confirm you've actually correctly implemented what you've designed. TDD is all about design. The tests are a useful byproduct.
null
0
1316898472
False
0
c2mbgb9
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbgb9
t1_c2mbbzi
null
1427642428
6
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
robertwilliams
null
I think you must be arguing against unit tests rather than TDD, as TDD has no incremental costs in development or maintenance. You may be able to identify very specific cases where a unit test doesn't add much value, but it's overall a valuable enough practice to just do it 100% of the time. When you get into a mindset of only doing unit tests sometimes, that always turns into "don't do it if it's too hard" - and those are usually the times it would have been the most value. The cases where it didn't add much value were probably trivial cases, so the tests were by definition trivial to write. > ongoing maintenance Tests only have to be "maintained" *when the code changes*, either in terms of design (refactoring) or functionality. And that's precisely when you want unit tests!
null
0
1316898611
False
0
c2mbgt9
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbgt9
t1_c2mb37f
null
1427642434
5
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
BraveSirRobin
null
Time is a limited resource and in reality 100% coverage does not exist. You are better spending time writing good tests for important classes than testing boilerplate code elsewhere.
null
0
1316898613
False
0
c2mbgto
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbgto
t1_c2maray
null
1427642435
8
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
scgtrp
null
> everyone has their own preferences for the tab expansion length That is not a problem when you're only using tabs - in fact, it's a *feature*. (It is certainly a problem when you mix tabs and spaces, but mixed tabs and spaces are significantly worse than either of the alternatives and anyone doing that should be clobbered.)
null
0
1316898629
False
0
c2mbgw5
t3_kooiy
null
t1_c2mbgw5
t1_c2madrr
null
1427642435
5
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
hasslemaster
null
Software testing? lol, that's what PRODUCTION is for!
null
0
1316898642
False
0
c2mbgxo
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbgxo
t3_kq001
null
1427642436
6
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
BraveSirRobin
null
Prototyping, e.g. testing if two frameworks work well together. TDD is a waste of time in code that probably won't be kept. If it lives beyond the experiment then you should write tests of course.
null
0
1316898749
False
0
c2mbhck
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbhck
t1_c2marsz
null
1427642441
8
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
robertwilliams
null
And "other people" can be "you six months from now."
null
0
1316898749
False
0
c2mbhcm
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbhcm
t1_c2mb7ol
null
1427642441
2
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
xiongchiamiov
null
Python no longer supports backticks for execing.
null
0
1316898799
False
0
c2mbhkf
t3_kpqzv
null
t1_c2mbhkf
t1_c2m8gq6
null
1427642450
1
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
rcinsf
null
Ditto.
null
0
1316898828
False
0
c2mbho9
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbho9
t1_c2m9yqy
null
1427642446
-4
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
BraveSirRobin
null
Make sure your manager sees this, it's far too easy for them to ignore efforts that eliminate future work.
null
0
1316898840
False
0
c2mbhq3
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbhq3
t1_c2ma4uc
null
1427642446
4
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
steven_h
null
Enjoy your self-flagellation -- a lot of monks were convinced it was a mark of piety, too.
null
0
1316898939
False
0
c2mbi3r
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbi3r
t1_c2mbe5j
null
1427642452
3
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
yataf
null
Can you explain what you mean? In my group, everybody picks up what I say.
null
0
1316898985
False
0
c2mbi9i
t3_kogj4
null
t1_c2mbi9i
t1_c2ma5il
null
1427642455
1
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
BraveSirRobin
null
TDD UI Automated Testing? As someone with many years of GUI automation experience on numerous platforms, don't even bother. That is a road to hell.
null
0
1316898987
False
0
c2mbi9s
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbi9s
t1_c2ma9e0
null
1427642455
2
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
ReasonableCause
null
Nope. With TDD, refactoring your code takes place once all tests pass. That way, you can be sure that the refactored code still works. I think what kamatsu was trying to say is, to not add new functionality to your code without a test that requires that new functionality. The "rules" of TDD restrict you to doing just one thing at a time. First, write a test that fails. Then, write the simplest piece of code to make that test pass. Then, refactor your code to make it better structured.
null
0
1316899024
False
0
c2mbidr
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbidr
t1_c2mb407
null
1427642456
3
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
organic_code
null
TDD has been around for over 10 years.. I would hardly consider it the latest example of or a new methodology.
null
0
1316899033
False
0
c2mbiet
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbiet
t1_c2mb92r
null
1427642456
2
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
rcinsf
null
Didn't see the part where they said they wrote tests before coding.
null
0
1316899056
False
0
c2mbihp
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbihp
t1_c2ma0kq
null
1427642457
7
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
steven_h
null
I'm wondering why you bothered to post to boast about your willful ignorance of the original essay.
null
0
1316899061
False
0
c2mbiih
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbiih
t1_c2maz1k
null
1427642457
3
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
robertwilliams
null
If it's truly trivial code, the tests are trivial and take very little time to write or maintain. If it's generated code, then yeah I probably wouldn't bother with a test. If it's "boilerplate" code that is duplicated over and over, then you need to eliminate the duplication and test it once. I have run into some situations where it didn't seem worth it to get 100% coverage, but it was mostly trying to force error conditions. The handling was straightforward enough that I didn't want to add all the mocks necessary to get to 100%. Although it might have been a good exercise for an intern or junior programmer, if we had those.
null
0
1316899083
False
0
c2mbiky
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbiky
t1_c2mbgto
null
1427642465
1
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
runn3r
null
If you sign up at tynt.com you can set this up on any website that you control. Neat in some ways, and the stats you can get about what is being copied from your site is interesting.
null
0
1316899147
False
0
c2mbito
t3_kp82i
null
t1_c2mbito
t1_c2m1vqj
null
1427642460
1
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
xiongchiamiov
null
I never realized that all scripting languages lack modules!
null
0
1316899161
False
0
c2mbivc
t3_kq27q
null
t1_c2mbivc
t1_c2m9nn2
null
1427642462
2
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
BraveSirRobin
null
"You can call it the art of testing without testing".
null
0
1316899184
False
0
c2mbiy8
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbiy8
t1_c2m9zeq
null
1427642463
2
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
steven_h
null
Are those tests written before the code is written?
null
0
1316899260
False
0
c2mbj8j
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbj8j
t1_c2ma0kq
null
1427642467
9
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
robertwilliams
null
I often use unit tests for prototyping or experimenting with a framework. But yeah if I'm just doing a spike or hacking something together I don't care about tests. So maybe I should say "I have yet to encounter a case *when working with code destined for production* in which TDD is a bad idea."
null
0
1316899302
False
0
c2mbjdl
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbjdl
t1_c2mbhck
null
1427642470
6
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
[deleted]
null
Hey man, I wrote the article this links to. I've got a whole bunch of articles lined up that I'll be posting on how to integrate automated testing in to your business and team - how to describe tech debt to a business; how to organize your testing; how to decide the appropriate amount of testing, etc It's going to take me a while to produce them, but hopefully the content upcoming on that blog will be just what you're after!
null
0
1316899418
False
0
c2mbjse
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbjse
t1_c2maqym
null
1427642477
3
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
UnoriginalGuy
null
Buildings are relatively simple compared to software. Many software projects are closer to an entire city of buildings and pipework between all of them. It isn't realistic to design software in the same slow methodical way as you design buildings primarily because nothing would ever get done.
null
0
1316899495
False
0
c2mbk1r
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbk1r
t1_c2mbbzi
null
1427642480
3
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
robertwilliams
null
I mostly run into this when I'm writing tests for code that already exists. But if I do TDD then it's less likely. I thoroughly disagree with making my design worse to allow the tests, although I have to do it sometimes. Philosophically, I think one should always be able to test a class using its public methods. If I call some methods on a class, then at some point it's either going to call a method on one or more classes, or I'm going to inspect it's state. That should be enough to verify the class's behavior. Practically it doesn't always work out that way, but I think it's because I have a bad design.
null
0
1316899590
False
0
c2mbkez
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbkez
t1_c2mbg9l
null
1427642482
5
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
skilless
null
The people that have a problem with this seem likely to dislike python as well, since it has no provisions for private methods. As a fan of both TDD and Python, I don't consider these people to be worth worrying about :P
null
0
1316899609
False
0
c2mbkhl
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbkhl
t1_c2mbg9l
null
1427642482
1
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
tjdziuba
null
He mad.
null
0
1316899641
False
0
c2mbklx
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbklx
t1_c2ma44y
null
1427642485
2
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
yellowbkpk
null
Did anyone read the comments at all? It was marked as fixed last week. Why are you all complaining?
null
0
1316899756
False
0
c2mbl0w
t3_kq27q
null
t1_c2mbl0w
t3_kq27q
null
1427642489
12
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
agentlame
null
If you had written a test *before* your comment that typo would have never happened.
null
0
1316899819
False
0
c2mbl9w
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbl9w
t1_c2mabxb
null
1427642493
22
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
toaster13
null
Sound like normal programmers to me...
null
0
1316899852
False
0
c2mble0
t3_kq27q
null
t1_c2mble0
t1_c2mb2a1
null
1427642504
8
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
Xorlev
null
I bet you can too, but whatever his usecase it apparently takes 32G per 140,000 concurrent connections o.O
null
0
1316900018
False
0
c2mbm03
t3_kq27q
null
t1_c2mbm03
t1_c2mbe5e
null
1427642506
11
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
BobTheSCV
null
TDD =/= Software Testing. TDD is all about writing the test before the code, which may or may not be useful depending on the code being written.
null
0
1316900116
True
0
c2mbmch
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbmch
t1_c2mbgxo
null
1427642518
0
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
toaster13
null
I'm so sorry.
null
0
1316900274
False
0
c2mbmxs
t3_kq27q
null
t1_c2mbmxs
t1_c2maedg
null
1427642521
4
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
rush22
null
You could call it Java
null
0
1316900402
False
0
c2mbneq
t3_kketr
null
t1_c2mbneq
t1_c2l03bv
null
1427642524
1
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
quiI
null
I'm sure your subordinates love you.
null
0
1316900466
False
0
c2mbnmi
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbnmi
t1_c2mabjt
null
1427642526
6
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
StrangeWill
null
I write in a _ton_ of languages at work (current projects are mostly C# + C++/CLR + Java though), I swap it up based on what I need to do, PHP has it's uses, I don't do it all day (I'd probably cry if I was trying to do some of the tasks I do in C#/Java/C++ in PHP).
null
0
1316900517
False
0
c2mbntc
t3_kq27q
null
t1_c2mbntc
t1_c2mbmxs
null
1427642527
2
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
StrangeWill
null
Showed our CIO Friday, he wants me to get the rest of our developers on board. :) I already have all of their projects auto-building and alerting of problems, but they don't have any tests in place (I've noticed though one has started adding NUnit support though).
null
0
1316900663
False
0
c2mbobo
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbobo
t1_c2mbhq3
null
1427642533
4
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
ryeguy
null
Right, so write the tests when the logic becomes complicated. Why write it before?
null
0
1316900667
False
0
c2mboch
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mboch
t1_c2malmi
null
1427642533
14
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
BobTheSCV
null
TDD produces highly modular and decoupled code, which is good in some places, but generally something you wish to limit in performance critical code, as modular code is expensive code (polymorphism is expensive, which rules out techniques like dependency injection).
null
0
1316900787
True
0
c2mbosl
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbosl
t1_c2ma8ta
null
1427642547
0
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
foreheadteeth
null
Thanks for your comment! I have not yet implemented sparse matrices but obviously that is an interesting feature for the future. I don't want to put out a roadmap because it's hard to tell how these things go, but definitely important.
null
0
1316900824
False
0
c2mboxr
t3_koxfh
null
t1_c2mboxr
t1_c2m9bhl
null
1427642543
2
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
neoquietus
null
Sometimes I do wait until the logic gets complicated. Othertimes I don't. The advantage to writing it before hand is that you don't have to write it later, and in fact you don't have to remember to write it later. This means a few less bugs slip through. It's a trade off, especially for the simpler functions like getters and setters.
null
0
1316901216
False
0
c2mbq9o
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbq9o
t1_c2mboch
null
1427642558
1
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
Iggyhopper
null
He chose a tool for a purpose, and what he needs is what he needs. When there are problems with that, you can't just all willy-nilly assume that his needs are silly and the tool is wrong.
null
0
1316901217
False
0
c2mbqav
t3_kq27q
null
t1_c2mbqav
t1_c2mbdzm
null
1427642558
8
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
starspangledpickle
null
Doing it upfront is insane but it is a useful tool to guard against regressions. Plus it makes you think about how you design your ui as well. Is it keyboard or screen reader friendly and are there ui lag issues.
null
0
1316901235
False
0
c2mbqdb
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbqdb
t1_c2mbi9s
null
1427642569
1
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
tborwi
null
Didn't Eclipse complain about not knowing what the getter/setter was referring to?
null
0
1316901250
False
0
c2mbqfe
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbqfe
t1_c2mbdro
null
1427642560
1
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
[deleted]
null
"m OZ art" I guess..
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0
1316901334
False
0
c2mbqpy
t3_kpwjl
null
t1_c2mbqpy
t1_c2max57
null
1427642565
6
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
andytuba
null
... I'll take it!
null
0
1316901436
False
0
c2mbr2g
t3_kpwjl
null
t1_c2mbr2g
t1_c2mbqpy
null
1427642569
1
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
Zarutian
null
this is one of the reasons why I like Tcl. Control contstructs are commands like everything else in the code. For example: if {$answer == 42} { puts "The answer is correct" } is the command [if] that takes condition, body to run when condition is true and additional optional parameters for elseif and else clauses.
null
0
1316901445
False
0
c2mbr3i
t3_kooiy
null
t1_c2mbr3i
t1_c2maxpn
null
1427642571
0
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
gthank
null
Honest question: what's the advantage to using an `int` instead of a `size_t`? I don't do enough C to know, I just know the general rule is `size_t`.
null
0
1316901571
False
0
c2mbrjr
t3_kq27q
null
t1_c2mbrjr
t1_c2mb27q
null
1427642577
3
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
flexd
null
Considering we still have no idea what each of those 140k concurrent connections do or handle how can you claim 32GB is horribly wrong? 32GB/140k is 239.67 kilobytes, if he was handling lets say users in some sort of chat server or whatever else you might think of is 32GB really that bad? You have no idea what he is doing and claiming some arbitrary value of RAM is too much is just stupid when you don't know the first thing about his product.
null
0
1316901576
False
0
c2mbrka
t3_kq27q
null
t1_c2mbrka
t1_c2mbdzm
null
1427642577
14
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
kragensitaker
null
Maybe you should write your code in a different way so that it's not full of triviality!
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0
1316901659
False
0
c2mbrvc
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbrvc
t1_c2mamhh
null
1427642581
2
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
MarshallBanana
null
Well, they probably did it because they didn't think they'd need all that much memory, since they were just making a browser, and their GC couldn't handle it very well anyway.
null
0
1316901737
False
0
c2mbs61
t3_kq27q
null
t1_c2mbs61
t1_c2mbfad
null
1427642585
8
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
[deleted]
null
>Robert C. Martin, who loves his TDD, actually advocated running a small test suite every time a single line of code is changed, and if you ever want to make changes to the code, you must first write a failing test for it that will be passed when it is completed - if the tests passed, you aren't allowed to edit the code. I don't think it's that crazy. My build scripts run the unit tests every time the code is compiled, regardless of lines changed, and it's probably the fastest part of the build process.
null
0
1316901764
False
0
c2mbs9q
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbs9q
t1_c2ma3fc
null
1427642586
2
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
[deleted]
null
And if you work on your own that's great and you're free to do what you want. When you work on a bigger team, if you're changing the API's as you see fit you're basically screwing everyone else over.
null
0
1316901940
False
0
c2mbswi
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbswi
t1_c2mb7ew
null
1427642593
3
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
lampshadish2
null
At one point, it was rather difficult to install rails applications. It's gotten easier, but the stigma remains. I had the same initial reaction since I was expecting a thick client.
null
0
1316901945
False
0
c2mbsxe
t3_kolze
null
t1_c2mbsxe
t1_c2m0af8
null
1427642593
1
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
kragensitaker
null
> If it's generated code, then yeah I probably wouldn't bother with a test. Right. Test the code generator instead. > If it's "boilerplate" code that is duplicated over and over, then you need to eliminate the duplication and test it once. Well said, sir.
null
0
1316901980
False
0
c2mbt1q
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbt1q
t1_c2mbiky
null
1427642595
1
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
DrMonkeyLove
null
>First, write a test that fails. Then, write the simplest piece of code to make that test pass. Then, refactor your code to make it better structured. Is it just me, or does this seem incredibly inefficient when developing something from scratch?
null
0
1316902066
False
0
c2mbtbd
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbtbd
t1_c2mbidr
null
1427642598
3
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
BooksAndSwords
null
Generally if I'm writing a completely new feature, I start implementing first, because it's only by writing a skeletal implementation that I come to understand the problem(s) in enough detail to know what the solution looks like well enough that I can start to write tests. Then I flesh out the implementation and write the tests in parallel, sometimes code first, sometimes test first depending on how well things are flowing. If I'm just refactoring code or adding on small pieces of functionality, tests, tests, and more tests before I change a line.
null
0
1316902164
False
0
c2mbtm7
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbtm7
t1_c2mbjdl
null
1427642601
7
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
[deleted]
null
TDD? Lol. Whatever u thunk u need bro.
null
0
1316902165
False
0
c2mbtng
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbtng
t3_kq001
null
1427642603
-1
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
lx45803
null
I wouldn't imagine you'd need a 64-bit build, since each tab and plugin is a separate process. No individual process would need more than 4 GB in any sane situation, right? Or am I missing something?
null
0
1316902211
False
0
c2mbtuw
t3_kq27q
null
t1_c2mbtuw
t1_c2mbf07
null
1427642605
1
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
BooksAndSwords
null
Generally if I'm writing a completely new feature, I start implementing first, because it's only by writing a skeletal implementation that I come to understand the problem(s) in enough detail to know what the solution looks like well enough that I can start to write tests. Then I flesh out the implementation and write the tests in parallel, sometimes code first, sometimes test first depending on how well things are flowing. If I'm just refactoring code or adding on small pieces of functionality, tests, tests, and more tests before I change a line.
null
0
1316902221
False
0
c2mbtw2
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbtw2
t1_c2mbjdl
null
1427642606
1
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
MarshallBanana
null
You do realize that the people actually writing the code *do not need it*? That is why they left it like that. The people who want it are those who are trying to use the code for things it wasn't designed for. Google were nice enough to go out of their way to fix the code *anyway*, and somehow now they are bad?
null
0
1316902312
False
0
c2mbu7n
t3_kq27q
null
t1_c2mbu7n
t1_c2m9zdw
null
1427642609
5
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
Smallpaul
null
Every packet in a connection takes the same path?
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0
1316902352
False
0
c2mbuck
t3_kp1b5
null
t1_c2mbuck
t1_c2m9yok
null
1427642618
2
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
[deleted]
null
while i havent tried TdD myself, i am pretty sure any methodology you use regularly will help to write better code. Just because one has success with it does not mean its the only or best way. Rather, THEY have found it works for them.
null
0
1316902352
False
0
c2mbucn
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbucn
t1_c2ma6hy
null
1427642618
2
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
nemtrif
null
I know - that was a joke. Sorry if the joke turned to be a bad one.
null
0
1316902548
False
0
c2mburq
t3_kooiy
null
t1_c2mburq
t1_c2m53gi
null
1427642616
3
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
otterdam
null
As far as I'm concerned, unit tests are there to test the object does what it's advertised to; it's not to test the implementation, the internal state of the object after certain operations. What happens then is your tests become tightly coupled to the implementation rather than the design. Sometimes that's impossible to avoid, but I tend to prefer debug asserts where possible.
null
0
1316902566
False
0
c2mbuv1
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbuv1
t1_c2mbkez
null
1427642618
9
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
kragensitaker
null
I've run into trouble with unit tests when refactoring. Refactoring usually means moving functionality from one side of an interface to another. To do that, you have to change all the tests that either stub out an implementation of that interface (e.g. with mock objects) or test the implementation of that interface. Stubbing makes this worse. I've also run into trouble with unit tests when changing functionality. It's not a big deal if you only have to change one test, but when there are a lot of tests that depend on the behavior you're changing, it's a big deal. Stubbing makes this better.
null
0
1316902606
False
0
c2mbv0l
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbv0l
t1_c2mbgt9
null
1427642621
4
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
nemtrif
null
Having *automated* tests is extremely valuable for elaborate or sensitive business logic.
null
0
1316902669
False
0
c2mbv8b
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbv8b
t1_c2m9yvv
null
1427642624
6
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
mitsuhiko
null
Unsigned types in general have very annoying semantics regarding overflows and when mixed with other types. Temporary results in expressions with unsigned types depend on the type of the other operand. Especially when things are not directly assigned to results it becomes ugly. unsigned x = 1; int y = x - 1; `y` will be 0 as expected. But when you attempt to apply that knowledge to comparisons you will be disappointed: printf("%d\n", (unsigned)1 < -1); Yes, unsigned 1 is smaller than signed -1. And gcc will not even warn with Wall about that. Signed and unsigned types also have different behavior when combined with floats which is a painful experience. On top of that reverse iteration over unsigneds often ends up in an infinite loop. Yes, you should know that, but often people introduce unsigneds later when they were using signeds before and things become weird. On top of that: accidental negative values become huge positive values which mask errors and cause a lot of really interesting overflows. As such many people decide that half the size is good enough and they make assertions that things don't go negative because that would indicate an error.
null
0
1316902693
True
0
c2mbvcb
t3_kq27q
null
t1_c2mbvcb
t1_c2mbrjr
null
1427642625
7
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
garymrush
null
As I mentioned in another comment, if you feel the need to expose private members of your class in order to test, that's an indication that you've got another class hiding inside. Rip that sucker out, test its now public methods and properties, and then simply verify that your original class uses it properly (often a mocked interface).
null
0
1316902746
False
0
c2mbvit
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbvit
t1_c2mbg9l
null
1427642627
16
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
ottawadeveloper
null
disagree - its a mechanism that forces you to consider what the routine will do and all possible results before you code it. if you do that anyways, the testing can come later. as with most thing, its for mediocre :).
null
0
1316902851
False
0
c2mbvvn
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbvvn
t1_c2ma2w5
null
1427642635
1
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
nucking
null
As the second comment in that thread pointed out, the person who wrote this has absolute no clue about big software projects. For small 5-10 people projects he might be correct, but the way he portrays TTD is simply childish and narrow minded.
null
0
1316902884
False
0
c2mbvzw
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbvzw
t3_kq001
null
1427642636
0
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
mazenharake
null
I'm glad someone shares by view on TDD. Something I can slap in the face of all those constantly trying to convince me that writing my unit tests before I code is a superior strategy.
null
0
1316902937
False
0
c2mbw5i
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbw5i
t3_kq001
null
1427642635
1
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
mazenharake
null
I'm glad someone shares my view on TDD. Something I can slap in the face of all those constantly trying to convince me that writing my unit tests before I code is a superior strategy.
null
0
1316903009
False
0
c2mbwej
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbwej
t3_kq001
null
1427642638
3
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
nemtrif
null
> just want to point out that the problem domains that we are dealing with are considerably smaller than "the real world". The domains may be smaller than the real world, but I have yet to see unit-tests that account for every possible state of the system they test.
null
0
1316903053
False
0
c2mbwl2
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbwl2
t1_c2maol7
null
1427642642
2
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
GeorgeForemanGrillz
null
The one thing that TDD instantly gives you is documentation for your code. If you write software for an industry that is regulated this comes in handy for your auditors. You can compile a list of your Cucumber tests and provide it for them. No more headaches of having a completely separate exercise of documenting your code and what each method/function does.
null
0
1316903079
False
0
c2mbwoj
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbwoj
t3_kq001
null
1427642654
1
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
novascorpio
null
I lol'd
null
0
1316903073
False
0
c2mbwom
t3_kqd8o
null
t1_c2mbwom
t3_kqd8o
null
1427642654
3
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
adrianmonk
null
64-bit builds might run faster since they can use the more-modern x86_64 instruction set. In a generic sense, switching from 32-bit to 64-bit just buys you larger native datatypes and the ability to address more memory. In the specific case of the x86/x86_64 architecture, x86 is ancient and has a lot of weaknesses (like only has 6 general-purpose registers) that x86_64 doesn't have.
null
0
1316903163
False
0
c2mbwyt
t3_kq27q
null
t1_c2mbwyt
t1_c2mbtuw
null
1427642658
4
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
garymrush
null
I couldn't agree more. While I believe there is a real benefit to the TDD methodology, simply following ANY decent methodology is more important.
null
0
1316903176
False
0
c2mbx12
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbx12
t1_c2mbucn
null
1427642652
0
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
[deleted]
null
[deleted]
null
0
1316903183
False
0
c2mbx1u
t3_kqd8o
null
t1_c2mbx1u
t3_kqd8o
null
1427642652
3
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
ezekiel
null
Functional programming has been around 50 years. Structured programming and abstract data types have been around 40 years. Those are well-researched and extensively used software principles providing known benefits and predictable results. In contrast to that, TDD is a fad. It has been hyped for 10 years by consultants and IT-shop complexifiers who cannot understand how under-representative their handful of tests really are. They refactor against this handful of tests and the fallout is discovered over the course of months. The data cleanup and code repair takes forever because their odd software design is a mismatch for reality. The reason: *Thorough software testing* is the weakest skill in most programmers' arsenal.
null
0
1316903228
False
0
c2mbx7n
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbx7n
t1_c2mbiet
null
1427642655
9
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
cryo
null
Writing a test that fully tests the domain of a function, say, is hard, error prone and ridiculously verbose, and so will generally never happen. But when it doesn't, it can't really tell you when to stop writing code. It just transfers complexity to the test writing.
null
0
1316903241
False
0
c2mbx9c
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbx9c
t1_c2maie0
null
1427642656
2
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
ezekiel
null
That "guru" was not an anomaly. His personality type and the TDD religion go hand in hand. *High-quality software design and testing* is not a fad nor religion. It becomes cool only after you practice it for years.
null
0
1316903518
False
0
c2mby5f
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mby5f
t1_c2mapdg
null
1427642664
5
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
cryo
null
Fine, but what does that have to do with test driven development, and not just it testing which, I think, no one here is opposing.
null
0
1316903583
False
0
c2mbyen
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbyen
t1_c2ma4uc
null
1427642666
0
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
MarshallBanana
null
> Some seem to think this reddit is for "links that programmers might find interesting or funny". No. It's for programming links. Programming. *Programming.* **Programming.**
null
0
1316903732
False
0
c2mbyyh
t3_kqd8o
null
t1_c2mbyyh
t3_kqd8o
null
1427642673
7
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
ajness
null
As a project manager, the earlier that design flaws are caught the more reliably a project can be delivered on time and on budget. TDD forces the developers and thus, me, to analyze the assumptions in the design and to avoid the nearly inevitable moments of "oh, you wanted THAT??" late in the game. I fully recognize that it's a pain in the ass. But it is an overall net time-saver when I work with many developers.
null
0
1316903753
False
0
c2mbz1k
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbz1k
t3_kq001
null
1427642674
3
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
foobeans
null
Learn by picking a better language.
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0
1316903758
False
0
c2mbz2b
t3_kmygn
null
t1_c2mbz2b
t3_kmygn
null
1427642674
1
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
cryo
null
Improving code and its tests when it fails in the real world isn't what distinguishes TDD, it's the order in which you do it, so your comment doesn't seem to be in favor of TDD in particular.
null
0
1316903775
False
0
c2mbz4k
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbz4k
t1_c2m9yp6
null
1427642674
0
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
immerc
null
Sure, but not being able to copy and paste between a website and an editor is different from checking in code with terrible-ass formatting.
null
0
1316903818
False
0
c2mbzav
t3_kooiy
null
t1_c2mbzav
t1_c2magya
null
1427642677
2
t5_2fwo
null
null
null
True
cryo
null
Those inputs can still be unboundedly complex; writing a covering and correct test can be as hard as writing the code, which is my biggest problem with TDD.
null
0
1316903873
False
0
c2mbzhx
t3_kq001
null
t1_c2mbzhx
t1_c2maol7
null
1427642679
2
t5_2fwo
null
null
null