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5 High level principles
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5.1 General
This clause describes the principles that are applicable in network selection up to Rel-6 and that are not expected to be challenged by the enhancements introduced to the network selection procedures. Furthermore the expectations of the three main stakeholders in the network selection procedures (customer, home operato...
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5.2 Key principles
The following is a set of principles that should be preserved when devising a new procedure to perform the registration to the serving mobile network. The assumption made in this paragraph is that the term “network” has to be interpreted as the core network of the mobile operator with whom the subscriber has direct rel...
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5.3 Backward compatibility
Enhancements to the network selection principles will not negatively affect the functionality of existing devices. Enhancements to the Network Selection procedure in the core network shall be done such that backwards compatibility with existing UEs is maintained. The network selection principles should allow for at lea...
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5.4 Customer expectations
Following switch-on where there is no last registered PLMN, the user should be registered on non-forbidden PLMN as fast as possible (typically within 20 seconds). This period includes the execution of any 3GPP defined functionality (e.g. after any PIN verification) that is performed by the mobile device but excludes an...
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5.5 Home operator expectations
The home operator's users' devices should select the home operator's preferred network and access type while roaming. The home operator should be able to set which preferred networks are in the customer’s device. The home operator should be able to set the mix of networks and access types that can be used by each roami...
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5.6 Visited operator expectations
It should be possible for the visited operator to direct traffic from roamers onto the appropriate access technology to manage network capacity and loading (e.g. to use 2G for voice and 3G for high speed data services). The ability to change the access in real-time for roamers according to their usage should be possibl...
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5.7 UICC and USIM considerations
In terms of Network Selection Procedures, the USIM contains several sets of data that are used either for automatic or manual selection: - User controlled PLMN selector with Access Technology - Operator controlled PLMN selector with Access Technology - Higher Priority PLMN search period - Forbidden PLMNs - HPLMN select...
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6 Identified issues with current specifications
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6.1 HPLMN initiated network reselection
No dynamic mechanism exists for the HPLMN to request that a UE selects a different VPLMN whilst roaming. Currently this happens through the use of the background scan when the UE is on a non-preferred network. This mechanism is not considered dynamic since updating the preference lists in the UE and taking the new list...
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6.2 Single priority or no priorities on VPLMNs
Currently the only standardised automatic network selection mechanism by which the HPLMN can control which VPLMN is selected is through the Operator preferred list. The intended behaviour is that one network in the visited country takes precedence over all the others, and in the case where a UE has selected an alternat...
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6.3 Manual network selection
Manual selection is a useful tool in cases where the selected PLMN is not providing adequate quality. However, in other circumstances it prevents the mobile operator from providing the user with the best possible service. One key limitation of manual network selection is that the user is presented only with the network...
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6.4 Time to select a network
When multiple bands and multiple technologies are available the time to select a PLMN may be too long. The new procedure should address this area
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6.5 RAT preference for PLMNs not prioritised by the USIM
This refers specifically to the case of the initial PLMN selection. Subsequent to that, the serving PLMN may change the RAT used by the UE .The visited operator should be able to allocate access technology and data rates on the basis of the identity (e.g. MCC-MNC) of the home operator of the inbound roamer. TS 23.122 ...
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6.6 A new PLMN can only be selected after an exhaustive scan
This section highlights that the time from loss of coverage to registration on a new PLMN is already quite long and with future developments will possibly be even longer. TS 23.122 [2] and TS 25.304 mandate that the UE shall search for its last RPLMN in every supported RAT and bands at power on or recovery from lack of...
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6.10 Ping ponging between Registration Areas
Currently the mechanisms standardised do not seem to adequately cater for the national roaming scenario nor formulti RAT (3G, WLAN, 2G etc.) environments. This, when associated with fluctuating signal condition, can lead to UE ping-ponging between 2G and 3G , causing significant signalling load on the network as well a...
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6.11 The last RPLMN is always the highest priority
TS 23.122 [2] mandates that the UE shall always select in priority its last RPLMN or an ePLMN when recovering from out of coverage or at power-on. The main reason for this RPLMN requirement was due to the fact that in all roaming cases at that time the mobile will not find its HPLMN and this introduced an unnecessary (...
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6.12 Network selection in border areas
A problem exists for mobile users when commuting across national borders. Whilst manual network selection may be used to ensure that the user can select the HPLMN / EHPLMN, many users use Automatic Selection mode; and the ME is only permitted to select PLMNs of a higher priority within the same country in automatic mod...
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6.13 Multiple EHPLMNs
Currently the TS 23.122 [2] allows an operator to define a list of EHPLMNs which may have different priority. Thus under automatic network selection it is possible to for one of the constituent networks to be given priority over another. Manual network selection only allows the highest EHPLMN to be displayed to the su...
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7 Impact of technology changes
This section looks at how technology changes can impact the current Network Selection mechanism. When a new technology has been introduced typically one of two options are taken: - Replication of the network selection principles. Replicating the user experience provides the same over all "look and feel" to the user, ho...
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7.1 Multi-provider environments
The network selection procedures in TS 22.011 [1] focuses on PLMN selection defined in Section 3.2.2.1 as “an UE based procedure, whereby candidate PLMNs are chosen, one at a time, for attempted registration”. Upcoming usage scenarios may require taking into consideration for network selection where there are different...
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8 Conclusions
This Technical Report has reviewed current practice with regard to Network Selection Principles and considered the impact of some future developments within 3GPP on the existing mechanisms. It is concluded that it would be beneficial to consider enhancements to the current specifications in a number of areas. 1) A numb...
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1 Scope
The purpose of this document is to contain the updated Work Item Descriptions (WIDs) and capture status of all SA5 work items of the current 3GPP Release in order for the group to get an overview of current ongoing work. This TR is used as a mean to provide input to the complete 3GPP work plan that is handled by MCC. S...
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2 References
The following documents contain provisions which, through reference in this text, constitute provisions of the present document. • References are either specific (identified by date of publication, edition number, version number, etc.) or non‑specific. • For a specific reference, subsequent revisions do not apply. • Fo...
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3 Operations, Administration, Maintenance & Provisioning - OAM&P
Feature: Operations, Administration, Maintenance & Provisioning (OAM7) Unique_ID: 35041 BB: Network Infrastructure Management (OAM7-NIM) Unique_ID: 35042 Technical Specification Group Services and System Aspects TSGS#28(05)0302 Meeting #28, Quebec, CANADA, 06-08 June 2005 Source: SA5 (Telecom Management) Title: WID W...
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9 Impacts
Affects: UICC apps ME AN CN Others Yes X No X X X Don't know X
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10 Expected Output and Time scale (to be updated at each plenary)
New specifications [If Study Item, one TR is anticipated] Spec No. Title Prime rsp. WG 2ndary rsp. WG(s) Presented for information at plenary# Approved at plenary# Comments NA Affected existing specifications [None in the case of Study Items] Spec No. CR Subject Approved at plenary# Comments 32.240 TBD Add new principl...
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14c The WI is a Work Task: parent Building Block
• SA5's Charging Management small Enhancements (UID 320007, CH7)
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32.307 Notification IRP SOAP SS
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32.317 Generic IRP Management SOAP SS
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32.607 Basic CM IRP SOAP SS
32.665 Kernel CM IRP XML definitions
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32.667 Kernel CM IRP SOAP SS
5 Service Aspects None 6 MMI-Aspects None 7 Charging Aspects None 8 Security Aspects None
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3.2 Principle of radio channel power monitoring
The transport channels and physical channels have mapping relations. The following is mapping of transport channels onto physical channels. 25.211 From the figure above, the mapping from transport channel to physical channel is mostly one to one. So, in most cases, we just need to monitor the physical channels. It is p...
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14b The WI is a Building Block: parent Feature
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4 Charging Management
WT Charging aspects of FBI for PacketCable Unique_ID: 7032 Acronym: FBI-PCBL-CH Technical Specification Group Services and System Aspects TSGS#31(06)0145 Meeting #31, 13 - 16 March 2006, Sanya, China Source: SA WG2 Title: Revised WID: "System enhancements for fixed broadband access to IMS". Document for: Approval Agen...
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14a The WI is a Feature: List of building blocks under this feature
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5 Status list of Work items
This list reflects work items ongoing, completed, stopped or moved to Rel-8. Feature: Operations, Administration, Maintenance & Provisioning (OAM7) Unique_ID: 35041 5 BB: Network Infrastructure Management (OAM7-NIM) Unique_ID: 35042 5 WT Enhance NRM to accommodate NGN (IMS as basis of the Next Generation Network) Un...
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6 List of SA5 Release 7 specifications
Type Number Title Rapporteur TR 30.817 Telecommunication management; Project scheduling and open issues for SA5, Release 7 ZOICAS, Adrian TS 32.101 Telecommunication management; Principles and high level requirements TOCHE, Christian TS 32.102 Telecommunication management; Architecture BERGGREN, Tommy TS 32.111-1 Telec...
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1 Scope
The scope of this Technical Report (TR) is to capture the results of a feasibility study on how to introduce a clear separation of transport and control functions in the PS CN domain, with minimum impacts on the reference logical architecture for R’00. With this separation in view, functional elements of the PS CN doma...
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2 References
The following documents contain provisions which, through reference in this text, constitute provisions of the present document. • References are either specific (identified by date of publication, edition number, version number, etc.) or non‑specific. • For a specific reference, subsequent revisions do not apply. • Fo...
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3 Symbols and Abbreviations
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3.1 Symbols
For the purposes of the present document, the following symbols apply: Mp Interface between an SGSN server and a PS-MGW.
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3.2 Abbreviations
For the purposes of the present document, the following abbreviations apply: cSGSN Control Serving GPRS Support Node PS-MGW Packet Switching Media Gateway SGSN server Serving GPRS Support Node server xGGSN Extended Gateway GPRS Support Node
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4 Introduction
This technical report (TR) was created in order to study a clear separation of transport and control functions in the PS CN domain, with minimum impacts on the reference architecture for R’00. As different approaches can be considered for achieving this goal, the following sections describe and analyse a few alternativ...
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5 Reference Logical Architecture
This chapter describes a reference architecture which we use as a basis for the evolved architecture. The full view of Release 2000 architecture (as specified in 3G TR 23.821) is the reference logical architecture for this TR and is provided in figure 1. Figure 1: Reference logical architecture
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6 Alternative 1: SGSN Server – PS Media Gateway Approach
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6.1 Introduction
In the PS CN domain the node that comprises the more user and control plane functions is undoubtedly the SGSN. It is therefore judicious to consider the SGSN as the primary target for a split of its user and control plane functions. This approach consists in decomposing the SGSN into an SGSN server and a PS media gatew...
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6.2 Logical Architecture
The logical architecture for this approach, as an evolution of the reference logical architecture, is depicted in figure 2. Figure 2: Evolved logical architecture with SGSN server and PS-MGW NOTE: Putting SGSN server and 2G-SGSN in the same node is an implementation option.
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6.2.1 Functional Nodes
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6.2.1.1 SGSN Server
The SGSN server is the main control node for GPRS. It handles all the signalling interfaces of an SGSN, including the GTP-C protocol on the Gn and Gp interfaces and the RANAP protocol on the Iu interface. The SGSN server controls the PS Media Gateway (PS-MGW) through the Mp interface.
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6.2.1.2 2G-SGSN
This evolved architecture has no impact on the 2G-SGSN. A 2G-SGSN is necessary to support the Gb interface. The Gn interface of a 2G-SGSN supports both user and control data.
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6.2.1.3 PS Media Gateway (PS-MGW)
The PS-MGW handles the user plane for GPRS. It terminates the GTP-U tunnels towards the GGSN over the Gn and Gp interfaces and towards the RNC over the Iu interface. The relation between the SGSN server and the PS-MGW represents the architectural association between a master and a slave, respectively. Therefore, this a...
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6.2.2 Interfaces
Only interfaces for which some clarification is felt useful are mentioned in this section. Interfaces that are not described here conform to their definition in the relevant specifications. The protocols GTP-U, GTP-C, RANAP and BSSGP referred to in the following subclauses conform to their current specifications and ar...
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6.2.2.1 SGSN server – PS-MGW (Mp) (Iu Mode Only)
The PS-MGW is controlled by the SGSN server through the Mp interface.
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6.2.2.2 UTRAN – SGSN server (Iu) (Iu Mode Only)
The Iu interface between the RNC and the SGSN server supports the RANAP protocol.
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6.2.2.3 UTRAN – PS-MGW (Iu) (Iu Mode Only)
The Iu interface between the RNC and the PS-MGW supports the GTP-U protocol.
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6.2.2.4 BSS – 2G-SGSN (Gb) (Gb Mode Only)
The Gb interface between the BSS and the 2G-SGSN supports the BSSGP protocol. This interface belongs to both to the user and control planes.
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6.2.2.5 2G-SGSN/SGSN server – GGSN (Gn, Gp)
In Iu mode, the Gn interface between the SGSN server and the GGSN supports the GTP-C protocol. In Gb mode, the interface between the 2G-SGSN and the GGSN supports the GTP-C protocol in the control plane and the GTP-U protocol in the user plane. The Gp interface provides the same functionality as the Gn interface, excep...
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6.2.2.6 PS-MGW – GGSN (Gn) (Iu Mode Only)
The Gn interface between the PS-MGW and the GGSN supports the GTP-U protocol.
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6.2.2.7 Gn interface for inter SGSN procedures
At inter SGSN intersystem change (UMTS to/from GSM): - the Gn interface between the SGSN server and the 2G-SGSN supports the GTP-C protocol. - the Gn interface between the 2G-SGSN and the PS-MGW controlled by the peer SGSN server supports the GTP-U protocol. When the MS moves between GSM cells served by two different 2...
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6.2.3 User plane
The protocol stack for the user plane is shown in figure 3. Figure 3: User plane protocol stack
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6.3 H.248 option over Mp
NOTE: Two options are considered in this TR as to the protocol to use over the Mp interface; H.248 with extensions and GTP-C with extensions. Both options are described for comparison purposes, however only one of them shall eventually be retained. The protocol selection might be deferred to the stage 3 work.
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6.3.1 Mobility Management (H.248 option)
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6.3.1.1 Detach Procedures
The detach procedure can be initiated by the MS, by the SGSN and by the HLR. The latter two sequences are omitted in this description as they are similar to the first sequence, and they do not add any complexity to the detach sequences. Figure 4: MS-Initiated Combined PS/CS Detach Procedure 1) The MS detaches by sendin...
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6.3.1.2 Routing Area Update Procedure
The Iu connection is not active in the RA update procedure shown here. If the MS is in PMM-connected state, the SRNS relocation procedure would take place. After a SRNS relocation procedure is performed, a simplified RA update procedure would take place. Figure 5: UMTS RA Update Procedure 1) The MS sends a Routeing Are...
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6.3.1.3 Serving SRNS Relocation Procedure
Figure 6: Serving SRNS Relocation procedure 1) The source SRNC decides to perform/initiate a SRNS relocation. 2) The source SRNC initiates the relocation preparation procedure by sending a Relocation Required message to the old SGSN server. 3) The old SGSN server determines from Target ID if the SRNS Relocation is intr...
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6.3.1.4 UMTS to GSM Intra SGSN Change
Figure 7: UMTS to GSM Intra SGSN Change 1) The MS or BSS or UTRAN decides to perform an intersystem change, which makes the MS switch to a new cell that supports GSM radio technology, and stops transmission to the network. 2) The MS sends a Routeing Area Update Request message to the 2G‑SGSN+SGSN server. 3) The 2G‑SGSN...
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6.3.1.5 GSM to UMTS Intra SGSN Change
Figure 8: GSM to UMTS Intra SGSN Change 1) The MS or BSS or UTRAN decides to perform an intersystem change, which makes the MS switch to a new cell that supports UMTS radio technology, and stops transmission to the network. 2) The MS sends a Routeing Area Update Request message to the 2G-SGSN+SGSNserver. The 2G-SGSN+SG...
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6.3.1.6 UMTS to GSM Inter SGSN Change
Figure 9: UMTS to GSM Inter SGSN Change 1) The MS or BSS or UTRAN decides to perform an intersystem change, which makes the MS switch to a new cell that supports GSM radio technology, and stops transmission to the network. 2) The MS sends a Routeing Area Update Request message to the new 2G‑SGSN. 3) The new 2G‑SGSN sen...
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6.3.1.7 GSM to UMTS Inter SGSN Change
Figure 10: GSM to UMTS Inter SGSN Change 1) The MS or BSS or UTRAN decides to perform an intersystem change, which makes the MS switch to a new cell that supports UMTS radio technology, and stops transmission to the network. 2) The MS sends a Routeing Area Update Request message to the new SGSN server. 3) The new SGSN ...
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6.3.2 Session Management (H.248 option)
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6.3.2.1 PDP Context Activation Procedure
Figure 11: PDP Context Activation Procedure for UMTS 1) The MS sends an Activate PDP Context Request (NSAPI, TI, PDP Type, PDP Address, Access Point Name, QoS Requested, PDP Configuration Options) message to the SGSN server. 2) The SGSN server validates the Activate PDP context request message. The SGSN server may rest...
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6.3.2.2 Secondary PDP Context Activation Procedure
The Secondary PDP Context Activation procedure may be used to activate a PDP context while reusing the PDP address and other PDP context information from an already active PDP context. Figure 12: Secondary PDP Context Activation Procedure for UMTS 1) The MS sends an Activate Secondary PDP Context Request (Linked TI, NS...
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6.3.2.3 Network-Requested PDP Context Activation Procedure
The Network-Requested PDP Context Activation procedure allows the GGSN to initiate the activation of a PDP context. This procedure is a request in the control plane towards the MS to initiate a PDP Context Activation procedure. The PDP Context Activation procedure itself is performed as shown above in Section . Therefo...
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6.3.2.4 PDP Context Modification Procedures
The following parameters can be modified in a PDP context modification procedure: - QoS Negotiated; - Radio Priority; - Packet Flow Id; - PDP Address (in case of the GGSN-initiated modification procedure); and - TFT (in case of MS-initiated modification procedure). Of these parameters, only the modification of the QoS ...
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6.3.2.5 PDP Context Deactivation Procedure
PDP context deactivation can be initiated by the MS, by the SGSN and by the GGSN. The latter two sequences are omitted in this description as they are similar to the first sequence, and they do not add any complexity to the deactivation sequences. Figure 14: PDP Context Deactivation Initiated by MS Procedure for UMTS 1...
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6.3.2.6 Iu Release Procedure
Figure 15: Iu Release Procedure 1) The RNC sends an Iu Release Request message to the SGSN server. 2) The SGSN server sends the “MODIFY Request” message to the PS-MGW to remove the TEID(s) and the IP address(es) that the PS-MGW requires for communication towards the RNC. The maximum bit rate is included in this message...
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6.3.2.7 Service Request Initiated by MS Procedure
Figure 16: Service Request Initiated by MS Procedure 1) The MS establishes an RRC connection if none exists for CS traffic. 2) The MS sends a Service Request message to the SGSN server. If Service Type indicates Data, then a signalling connection is established between the MS and the SGSN server, and resources for acti...
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6.3.2.8 Service Request Initiated by Network Procedure
Figure 17: Service Request Initiated by Network Procedure 1) The PS-MGW receives a downlink PDP PDU for an MS in PMM‑IDLE state. 2) The PS-MGW sends the “NOTIFY” message to the SGSN server to indicate that the previously set Event (inform upon reception of downlink PDP PDU) is encountered for the PDP context. 3) The SG...
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6.3.3 Charging (H.248 option)
Today there is no requirement on spatial accuracy of charging data. However, such a requirement is easily remedied by letting the SGSN server read from the PS-MGW the data belonging to one area and to reset the counting and the Event when moving between areas. This can be done by means of existing H.248 mechanisms. NOT...
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6.3.3.1 Handling of S-CDR
The data handled in the S-CDR are both based on control plane layer functionality (e.g. control layer signalling parameters) and user plane traffic (e.g. transferred volume). The PS-MGW will transfer the parameters contained within the user plane to the SGSN server when required (Event based). The list of traffic data ...
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6.3.3.2 Handling of other types of CDRs in the SGSN server
The other types of CDRs handled by SGSN are: - M-CDR - S-SMO-CDR - S-SMT-CDR These contain only data from control signalling messages and data that is stored in the SGSN server. Therefore these CDRs are handled in the SGSN server.
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6.3.3.3 Handling of prepaid on-line
Prepaid on-line charging is always CAMEL based for GPRS. Since the CAMEL based charging will be Event based on the Mp interface, the charging information will be reported in real time to the SGSN server. For this reason, prepaid does not add any complexity to the split of the SGSN, but requires fast processing. See cha...
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6.3.3.4 Handling of hot-billing
Hot-billing is CDR based charging in GPRS, with the additional requirement of being able to output the CDRs relatively quickly. Since the CDR based charging will be Event based on the Mp interface, the charging data will be reported in real time to the SGSN server. For this reason, hot-billing does not add any complexi...
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6.3.3.5 General charging issues on the Mp interface
Charging data will be reported from the PS-MGW to the SGSN server per PDP context, and it is possible to set thresholds for when to do this reporting. In order not to overload the Mp interface, it is important to take some caution when setting the conditions for reporting. However, as the thresholds are set from the SG...
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6.3.4 CAMEL Considerations (H.248 option)
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6.3.4.1 Handling of Volume Based CAMEL Charging
For CAMEL, the SCF has the possibility to individually set both a volume threshold and a time threshold on PDP context level. The time threshold gives a relative time for when to report back to the SCF, while the volume threshold gives a number of octets (in the user plane packets) to monitor for before reporting back ...
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6.3.4.2 Handling of Time Based CAMEL Charging
Thresholds for time based CAMEL charging on PDP context level will be possible to monitor in the PS-MGW, as this threshold is closely connected to the volume threshold supplied from the SCF (via the SGSN server). Alternatively, this time monitoring is possible to perform from the SGSN server as described in the previou...
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6.3.5 Lawful Interception (H.248 option)
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6.3.5.1 Lawful Interception of Content of Communications
To enable the PS-MGW to intercept Content of Communication (CC), or in other words user plane packets, and forward these to Delivery Function 3 (DF3), the SGSN server must order the PS-MGW to set up a one way connection towards DF3 for every applicable PDP Context. The SGSN server must give the PS-MGW the parameters th...
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6.3.5.2 Lawful Interception of Intercept Related Information
The IRI (Intercept Related Information) is control layer signalling, and therefore this must be handled in the SGSN server.
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6.3.6 QoS Considerations (H.248 option)
The QoS aspects in the split architecture when the resource situation is of no concern are already handled in Mobility Management and Session Management. The PS-MGW should inform its SGSN server(s) about the load situation in the PS-MGW. Work is ongoing in H.248 standardisation to solve the issues of overload and con...
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6.3.7 Abnormal Cases (H.248 option)
Existing procedures will be used as far as possible. In the H.248 standardisation area, the PS domain of 3GPP should take advantage of existing work ongoing in the CS domain of 3GPP. More specific this means the following: The Echo Request and the Echo Response messages will be used to discover link failure between use...
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6.4 GTP-C option over Mp
NOTE: Two options are considered in this TR as to the protocol to use over the Mp interface; H.248 with extensions and GTP-C with extensions. Both options are described for comparison purposes, however only one of them shall eventually be retained. The protocol selection might be deferred to the stage 3 work.
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6.4.1 Mobility Management (GTP-C option)
The SGSN split does not have effects on the Mobility Management procedures for attach and detach, security and subscriber management. The location management procedures (i.e. the routing area update and the serving SRNS relocation procedures) and the Service Request procedures are affected. The changes are not major. T...
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6.4.1.1 Routing Area Update Procedure
At inter SGSN routing area update, the PDP context information is transferred from the old SGSN Server to the new SGSN Server. The PS-MGW may be changed or preserved. If the PS-MGW is changed, the PDP contexts are created in the new PS-MGW and deleted in the old PS-MGW. The inter SGSN routing area update procedure with...
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6.4.1.2 Serving SRNS Relocation Procedure
If the SGSN Server is changed at serving SRNS relocation, the PDP context information is transferred from the old SGSN Server to the new SGSN Server. The PS-MGW may be changed or preserved. If the PS-MGW is changed, the PDP contexts are created in the new PS-MGW and deleted in the old PS-MGW. The serving SRNS relocatio...
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6.4.2 Session Management (GTP-C option)
Session Management is used for PDP context activation, modification and deactivation. All the procedures are affected by the SGSN split. The changes are not major. The traffic in the backbone network is, however, increased due to signalling between the SGSN Server and the PS-MGW.
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6.4.2.1 PDP Context Activation Procedure
At PDP context activation, a PDP context is created in the PS-MGW. The PDP context is needed in the PS-MGW, e.g., to relay GTP-U packets between the RNC and the GGSN and to provide the negotiated QoS. The SGSN Server selects the PS-MGW to which the PDP context is created. The selection may be static (i.e. the SGSN Serv...
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6.4.2.2 PDP Context Modification Procedures
At PDP context modification, the PDP context in the PS-MGW is updated. The MS initiated PDP context modification procedure with the required changes is presented in the figure below. The required changes are the same in case of the SGSN or GGSN initiated PDP context modification procedure. Figure 24: MS-Initiated PDP C...