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Uh, you know whether you thought it was more of a biased or whatever but I, I guess you wouldn't. You probably, if you just watched it during the Gulf War, that probably wouldn't wouldn't tell you much. Yeah, well during that small sample, I would think that everyone was just about, just about the same, except the three networks, radio television programming. Yeah. So, if at a particular time, you wanted to get the latest and greatest news you could do that by, uh, turning on C N N Yeah. and you, Anyway, uh How about you. What do you do with your budget? What do I do, uh, at the moment it's under chaos. Uh, right now I'm just, uh, I, I don't really have a budget per se. I'm, I, uh, it's called living within your means You know, which means at the moment, paying off the VISA bill and keeping everything else under control and hoping the car doesn't collapse Uh-huh. Yeah.
That's true. Uh, but, uh, no I don't really have a budget at the moment. Uh, but I have uh, I have a rough feel for how much money I can afford to spend each month and then I don't, usually don't exceed that unless I, unless the VISA bill gets out of hand for one reason or another, like if I have car expenses and then that, then it goes through the moon, so. Yeah, that's sort of a problem. Yeah, so uh, what do We're trying, we're trying to, uh, so far we are in the clear credit wise but, uh, the other side of it is, so, not much on that side of it to add to it. We're trying to think of how to put away some savings and stuff like that but, So you can afford to get a house? Yeah, we'd like to do that some day.
We have this dream. Yeah. But, we don't know how long it will be a dream. We, we're kind of real, we're real happy that we don't have any debt, but we're at the same time we're real scared about incurring it in this, uh, economy right now so we're stepping real careful and trying to see what's the best way to save what, the little bit that we do get, you know, on top of expenses every month. Yeah. So, what do you and your husband do? We're missionaries actually. Are you really? Yeah, uh-huh. And, uh, it will be easier once we get overseas cause we have, uh, like, uh, uh, support quota Um. and it's cheaper to live overseas than it is to live here. No kidding. And it doesn't get switched very easily once you come home. I see. So, Overseas, where would you be going?
Africa, Nigeria. Really. Yeah. Really. How long would you be there? About four years. We're career so, we, we go over seas for four years and then we come back for a year. We go over four, we come back for a year. With, with what Church? Uh, we're with Wycliff Bible Translators. Oh yes. Yes, So. I, uh, I know who they are. They, uh, they have an office, uh, in in Costa Mesa as I recall. Yeah,
they could very well and, There, there was, uh, you know, there was a fairly large building that that was well that belongs to them. So, uh, are you, uh, are you, uh, active in translation? Uh, we will be. I was over, over four years doing language surveying which is the first step. You're kind of like the scout that goes ahead of the team and assesses the need. Uh-huh And, uh, came home and got married and we will go back as translators cause we want to raise a family and it is easier to raise a family as translators. Well, I always wanted to do translation, but as long as I was single and foot loose so to speak it's easier. You know they really need surveyors cause you could, you're free to travel anywhere. You don't have kids hanging around you and stuff. True, true enough. So, uh, what, what, uh, what languages do you speak besides English, of course? Well, I have a smattering of about ten different ones, but there's,
I'm not bilingual in any of them because I kept switching from one area to the other, you know, since I did you know, complete a survey in one area, I'd switch to the other. Uh-huh So I know the greetings in about ten, and how to do market stuff, but in about, uh, about five I guess, I can do better in it. And my French is pretty good but it's, uh, French so, uh, I'm terrified to speak in, uh in France. In France. Yeah, because they're real snobby about their language and French is street French and I just picked it up off the street and I knew what I was, I knew what I was communicating, but I didn't know what I was saying. I never sat there and got a direct translation and said something here when I came home and French to somebody and he paled and said, uh, I'm not going to tell you what you said. So, since then I have refrained from speaking any French So.
In Uh, I don't know what I said to him but, uh, I didn't ask him either. Must have been terrible. The, uh, was it Henry Macon said that the, the, uh, language was like a man slowly bleeding to death. So they hemorrhaged him to death without new infusions that will eventually die and I, it just amazes me that the French don't recognize that. Free style English is just, takes on, uh, some of my things, I, I'd like to have a short work week you know, Oh, okay. and and we need, you know, better health insurance and you know, Okay, we can start off there. Let's just get started. Okay. If you don't want to, you know, uh, talk about it now and then be bored when we get to it
Okay. Okay, so I just press one then right? Right. Okay, ready? Yep. Okay So, so you think, uh, I think that a short work week is real nice. Uh, I have a thirty-seven hour work week. How about you? Well, well right now, I, I'm just a student. I only work part time, but I've work in the job force before Uh-huh. and forty hours is just too long. You just don't have any time to do anything. It seems like, Saturday you get get off, but Sunday you're getting ready for Monday.
And if we get have a if we could have a thirty-two hour work week, with that happen is that, for every four people we could give another job. Uh-huh. Right. And then that way everybody would have a three day holiday, okay. And that way that more, that would make a bigger market. We'd have, uh, more recreation. People would have time to do it. There would be less of a stress level. We'd have, we'd have less crime. We'd have to we'd have to build less prisons, you know, less police force. Yeah, it all makes sense to me. Although, there may be more crime. I mean if people have more leisure time. It's not clear. And that, It, it, that's, that's a possibility. Yeah. One, one of the problems they're facing now, a lot of people now, is that the health insurance is that the small business can't, can't offer health insurance Uh-huh. and it, it's too costly
and what, what is happening is that they're on a policy where they have X amount of users in it, okay. So they get a specific rate. Well what happens is that if people start becoming having chronic illness and, and things like that, what happened and where they really have to spend out a lot of money for one particular, Right. it's called a a group, well what will, well what happens then is that they cancel, because they just can't cancel an individual. So they, they have to cancel just like life insurance. They have to cancel everything. Uh-huh. So what they do is that, that they cancel the insurance and then all the people don't have any insurance coverage. Right. So, But, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm satisfied with my job. I'm, I'm an engineering student. Right. And I work for my instructor and I'm I'm not a typical student. I'm, I'm older.
I'm, I'm in my thirties, okay. Yeah. And so I have a lot of job experience and my instructor thrives on that because he can just tell me what he wants and he can give me access and tell me what to do and just turn me loose Yeah. but in, in the same token, it's a very, really enjoyable for me because I don't have to have, you know, nobody breathing down my back and and one of the things that I, I really hate about jobs. I don't, I don't like bosses that, that you know want to yell at you and you know are down on your back and all this and that. Uh-huh. I, I just really can't deal with that so, Yeah What kind of, what kind of jobs have you done? Well, well, I do uh, research in computer science and I've just been doing that for a few years now so uh, I, my job has most of the benefits I want. Uh-huh. Uh, what I really like is, I like being, like they send me to conferences for instance, but probably not as much as I'd like but, uh, you know, that's just nice being, you know, having a company being able to give you time to do that sort of thing and sort of,
uh, they also, a really important thing to me is when they, uh, they pay for continuing education. Like, I, I get night courses that they they'll cover right now and that's really good Yeah, that's just great. You have what you might call knowledge power Right. you know, when when you work at a company whether you know it or not, is that you're categorized. Some people can be let go and replaced like, uh, say, uh, a typist, uh, somebody who does data entry or answers the telephone or receptionist. But if you're a person who, that's doing computer type things and you have the, you have the knowledge, you know what the system you've revised and revamped the system, well then you're you're vital to the company Uh-huh. and you get more benefits so. That's where I, I, I'm like, I'm into computers too and that's one of the things that I've found in any one, one of these jobs and anything I've done is that to have knowledge. When you have the knowledge, you're you're not going to, uh, you know, be let go, be one of the last ones to let go anyway. Right. So what I,
Well, what were you saying? Okay. I, I think we're started now. Oh, okay. Uh, do you want to go ahead and start? Uh, well, I haven't really been up to date on a lot of music. I've been in school and I haven't really gone out, and bought any or listened to much on the, on the radio except for classical and, uh, Well, you like classical music? Yes. Uh, I like classical music. I like rock and roll. Uh-huh. I like country and western Okay. Uh, I, I like all kinds I like, I like different things about each one of them. Well, I like most of them except for country music. Oh you don't like country?
No. I think I, I might like dancing to it but I don't like listening to it. The, the kind of country I like is kind of the older country music. Not the, not the kind like Kenny Rodgers and stuff like that. Oh. That's, uh, that's a little bit to, uh, they're trying to make it too much of a crossover thing, you know what I mean? Uh-huh. what's the old country music like? Oh, like, like Hank Williams. Like the old Hank Williams. Even, even Hank Williams, Junior is real good stuff. Uh-huh. The kind that Oh, okay. uh, this stuff, makes you cry it sounds so sad I mean you That's the kind you like you mean? Yeah.
sometimes I do. I mean, not all the time. Oh. Oh, okay. Well, I guess I, I like the blues a lot and I guess you could say it's similar as far as the kind of the way they do it. Yes. And I I, I do too. I also like jazz. Yeah. Me too, too. I guess I like except heavy metal and, uh, most rap I don't like. Yeah. Yeah. You're, you're about like I am I, I can't, watch M T V anymore. I used to love M T V. Oh, okay.
And I can, I can barely watch anymore because, uh, they have this heavy metal stuff on there and, and I can't even, you know, I can't like that. Yeah. And, and I liked, uh, Aerosmith and Led Zepplin and, uh you know, and, uh, jeez who else is there. Van Halen. Uh-huh. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Now I like, I like groups like that. But when you get, uh, I, I even like Guns and Roses, some of their stuff. Uh-huh. But, uh, some of these groups now like Slaughter Oh, I, I really haven't listened to that Some of them are just really rough. So, so you went to school then in, I'm surprised you didn't go to, to any parties or anything where they were playing a lot of music or stuff or, Well, uh, I used to a long time ago but since I've started back into school now, I haven't really done that much.
I've been pretty busy. Uh Okay. but, uh, so no I haven't. I, you know, I used to go out and dance a lot but I don't do that anymore either So. Oh, I see. Are you married at all? No Okay I've just been real busy with, with lots of other things. Well, how old are you? Twenty-eight. Okay. So, you, you were out of you went to school for awhile and quit. Then went back. Well, no. I, I went to school and got a degree and then I worked for awhile.
And then I just started, I started back a year and a half ago. Changed directions. Oh, okay. Yeah. How old are you? Oh, I'm, uh, twenty-eight I was born in sixty-three I guess we're the same age then. Oh, okay All right. Yeah. And, uh, I didn't really start getting into music until I went to college because, uh, my parents didn't really have music in the house. Put it that way. Oh, Were they religious? Yes. uh, I see. I, So, I'm always behind. I'm, I'm not, I'm never really up to date on all that stuff.
But I know what I like when it's, uh, when I like a sound. A certain kind of sound, yeah. My parents were very musical. My mother had a piano in the, in the house. Uh, Uh-huh. My father likes, uh, country western music. Okay. He's from, uh, West Virginia. So that's what he grew up listening to. Uh-huh. And he's always liked it and, and, you know, he's probably about fifty-three years old now, so he grew up like in the late fifties and you know, when they had that, the Elvis Presley music and stuff like that. And that kind of rock and roll Huh. Yeah, yeah. so he likes that. And my mom always liked that kind of stuff.
My mom likes like, uh, Doris Day, you know. Oh, really. She always had those, these old Doris Day records and stuff like that, though. Oh, well. So, you know, I grew up listening to that stuff. Yeah. But, uh, I could see why you went, uh, you know, I could see why you were kind of sheltered I guess from, from music. Yeah. Well, I, I do play the piano, you know Oh, okay. But, uh, I, I like the, uh, early seventies, late sixties rock. Kind of stuff, the old stuff. Oh, okay. And, uh, Yeah, so do I. Uh, Do you like, uh, like Van Halen or anything like that? Or how about Brian Adams? what kind of music is, does what songs does he play? It, it,
THIS LOVE CUTS LIKE A KNIFE. Uh, SUMMER OF SIXTY-NINE. Uh-huh. I think I've heard SUMMER OF SIXTY-NINE. Yeah. He sings that. Yeah. He's, he's from Canada. Okay. I'm not, I'm not very good at remembering the, uh titles, The titles and artists. yeah, but I can remember this, the song. Yeah. Well, do do you watch music television, M T V at all? Or V H One? Yeah No, I don't watch T V much at all. Okay. So. do, do you get cable?
No. Oh, okay. That's, that's No. you have to get cable to get those stations anyhow. Yeah. So. But, uh, yeah. I like to watch rock and roll videos and any kind of videos. Uh-huh. I like watching that kind of thing. It's, Do you like, uh, like someone recent? Like Enya? Have you ever head of her. She's not rock but she, she's from Ireland. No, I haven't heard her. Oh, okay.
And, uh, she's gotten some, uh, she's been on like the top ten, I guess, or whatever. Oh, really. She, she did Okay. So how serious is the, subject of crime in your area? Well, needless to say, here in Washington, D C this is the war zone. Uh, D C around here stands for drug capital or death capital. It's, uh, it's really bad here. Uh, for example, the, uh, local high school, uh, they've already found two students with sawed off shotguns Jeez. and they're starting to, uh, get these hand held metal detectors so they can inspect the kids every morning when they come to school, of all things. So, Well, luckily, it hasn't gotten that bad here. Uh-huh. Uh, San Jose actually has a pretty good record in terms of being relatively low on violent crime. Uh-huh. Uh, but it's on the uprise, especially in a lot of the, uh, outlying agricultural towns. Uh, because you end up having a lot of gangs forming, uh, largely around the Hispanic core. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh, it seems to be that, uh, gang warfare follows very rapidly on the heels of poverty conditions.
Uh-huh, right. That's how they, uh, they bind themselves together in groups, I guess and, uh, Yeah. Now, the, interestingly enough, I don't think we have here, a, a lot of gangs, but, uh, only a couple, uh of, not a whole large group of them, but, uh, just a few. Most of them centered around, uh, drug territory. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And so they're protecting their economic interests, I guess. Yeah And, uh, nowadays the latest thing I've, I've read about in the paper here that they're doing as far as, uh, crimes involving stealing cars is that, instead of stealing, uh, cars like at night, breaking into them or whatever, they will pick out a car that they want and wait until you show up, and then as you get out of the car, they just, uh, step up and, uh, take the keys off of you and drive the car away and leave you standing in front of your house. Well, that's efficient. Yeah, that's the, uh, latest thing. That way there's no damage to the car or anything. They just wait for you to show up after they've picked out which one they want. They're decided they're completely unworried about being identified or anything of that sort. Uh-huh.
Right. Just wait for you to drive to your house, you get out and they get in off they go with your car. Wow. So it's, uh, I think they call it car jacking around here Yeah, yeah, I'd heard that phrase. Uh-huh, yeah, that's kind of the latest thing, but every year in the D C area it gets progressively worse as far as the number of homicides, so it's, uh, it's unfortunate that we feel sometimes even that we have to bring our kids up in this area because we're not from around here, we're from, uh, I'm from Ohio and my wife's from Florida so, Uh-huh.
And we've just come from twenty years in the military and, uh, which is an entirely different environment, so this is a whole new thing for for us to, to have to put up with and it's, uh, really scary sometimes. Yeah, there aren't that many, places that are safe from that sort of thing nowadays. Right. And it's pretty bad when they're using metal detectors in school Uh-huh. and, uh, of course, the mayor, uh, of D C is having a real problem, uh, trying to, what do you do to, to reduce crime in a, in a major city like D C where it's a way of life for everybody. It's, uh, I would hate to have to wrestle with that problem. I don't know what, what the solution is. Uh, there's no way they can stop the drugs, and that's what's causing all the killing. Well, uh, there's a couple of things that I've heard, uh, most of them are fairly, uh, radical in terms of what you'd have to do. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh, course the, the reason that, that these kids tend to, to turn toward the drugs and everything else seems to be just, you know, the, the, the end results of, of poverty and, and parents that aren't doing any parenting and everything else Uh-huh.
because, I mean, you know, the parents aren't making a living at anything. Right Uh, And they see all their friends and neighbors, uh, And they're accidental parents half the time anyway. Yeah, and their friends are driving Mercedes and, so it's actually, they grow up with that as their way of life and, uh, I think, uh, to a large extent, they don't understand the concept that what they're doing is actually illegal because this is the way they were raised. It's illegal, but it's not wrong because all their friends do it. Right exactly, so maybe it's the law that wrong in their eyes and they they say, well, it's, it's the law that's, uh, got to be changed instead of their way of life, Yeah. so, I don't know, it's I'm glad it's not the kind of problem I have to come up with an answer to because it's not easy.
Well I think that the drug thing would actually be relatively easy to solve in terms of, of an actual solution to the problem. Uh Uh-huh. the, the social, the other social problems wouldn't, wouldn't go away. Right. Uh, They've always been with us. I mean, there's, there's been a lot of, uh, and I used to think that this whole argument was completely bogus, but then, the more I thought about it, the more sense it made, is that, uh, alcohol is as bad a drug as anything else. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh, and prohibition didn't stop it and didn't do anything really to slow, Right. Okay, looks like we're ready to go. Capital punishment, uh, the problem I have with capital punishment is that, uh, uh, it's supposed to be a deterrent to crime, but I don't think that it really actually does that. I don't think it deters anybody, because most of the time crimes are, uh, are committed with a, without any thought to the consequences and they don't think that, uh, stop and think and say, well, maybe I shouldn't do this, uh, because, uh, I might get the gas chamber or something like that.
They worry about it afterwards and then they try and get out of it. And, uh, how about you Well, I think that in some cases, it is warranted. Uh-huh, I do, too, yep. And I don't, I think in some cases it doesn't matter if it's a deterrent or not. Uh-huh, yeah, you still have to do it. I, I, I mean I mean, I'm thinking of an extreme case like a serial murderer Uh-huh. or, So you're in, you're in favor of capital punishment, then. Well, for some things. Right. I think for serial murder it is warranted because if a person who would do something like that in cold blood,
Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Needs to be punished or, uh, eliminated from society. I mean, you can't guarantee that they wouldn't escape from prison and do it again. Right. And then do it all over again. Uh-huh. And I don't think that, that rehabilitation is effective. Right. Have to agree with you, and I'm kind of in favor of capital punishment also. I just don't think that it acts much as a deterrent to these people because, uh, you still see them committing the same crimes, but, I tend to agree with you that, uh, we should have it I just, I don't know that it's always effective but I guess we, uh, we're kind of stuck with it. It's, it's a difficult, uh, problem, isn't it, to determine how you're going to punish somebody for a particular crime, uh, But, then, you know, I think that, that some murderers don't really warrant capital punishment. You know, just, like, for example, uh, you know, you hear about cases where women have killed their husbands who abused them Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Right,
uh-huh. and I don't think, that would really warrant capital punishment. Uh-huh, huh. Do you think they should be punished at all, or, uh, like go to prison, uh, because they're not really a danger to society. It was almost really self defense, isn't it, in a case like that. Uh it is to a certain extent Uh-huh. but I think, I don't know because, I know they put, uh, put them in jail sometimes, I guess. Uh, I think in and it, just would depend upon the circumstances and, and the extent of the abuse and, and if another alternative was available. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Um. Uh-huh. You know, now, I wonder what you think about this and, uh, unfortunately, we, we don't get to do it, but, uh, it used to be a long time ago, I guess in Biblical times when they had punishment if somebody did something, for example, to your family, then you had the right to administer the punishment.
So if somebody killed somebody in your family then you had the right to, uh, if that person was caught and found guilty, you had the right to, uh, execute that person. And I know that, uh, if somebody had done something to my family, I would feel that I had the right to, to get revenge on them and, uh, but, I, I don't think that's done much anywhere That's kind of drastic punishment. Well, I think that would be kind of drastic punishment. Right. And, Might make you feel better but But, one thing, I think that if there is a chance for rehabilitation then that chance should be investigated. Uh-huh. Right. But, like I said, if, if someone is, is just pathologically going to murder people no matter what then I think they should be eliminated from society. Uh-huh. Right. Uh-huh. Right, because they're a danger to everybody else. Huh, that's interesting. I have to, uh agree with that.
But, There's a lot of folks, probably, that are in prison that, uh, that aren't really a danger to society, huh, and, uh, And a lot of people that are a danger to society that aren't in prison. Right. Right, probably more of them then the other way around Interesting. I don't, I don't, not sure I, I'm in Washington, D C or at least very close to it. I'm not sure what kind of, uh, capital punishment we have here. Well, I know in North Carolina, we do have capital punishment. Uh-huh. And I'm I'm from South Carolina. Well, we, in, in, in our family, have been pretty remiss in trying to, uh, you know, keep track of, uh, daily finances. Uh, the, uh, way back, what, twelve years ago or something when I got my first computer, I did what everybody else does, which is to put the whole family budget on the machine and put checks, and, you know, checkbooks and all this kind of thing and we kept that going for about a month and it became so onerous that we gave up on it Uh-huh. That sounds about right
You know, so, uh, the only thing we're, you know, that we do now is, uh, I keep a, a little spread sheet of, uh, what I call the net worth calculation which is just the, the present value of various kinds of investments and so worth. Uh, and I only update that, oh I don't know, maybe once every quarter or so. Every three months. Just, basically when the statements come in. You know. Just to see whether or not we're falling, you know, getting ahead, falling behind or staying even or what. Uh-huh. Right. Uh, that's really about, you know, the extent of, uh, of the kind of, uh, financial score keeping that we're doing. Uh Well it's kind of difficult for me. Because right now, uh, like most teachers, I'm laid off and Huh. Oh dear, that's terrible. so, um, I spend most, you know, I substitute a lot. Uh-huh. So it's a lot, it's very hard on a nonfixed income because I don't know how many days I'm going to be called in and whether I am or not, to try to keep track of finances. Uh-huh. And, but I know how much I have to bring in a month And that's about it. That's about as far as we go. And then anything extra is, you know, more or less split up between all of us. And just thrown in the kitty, more or less, for a rainy day Uh-huh.
Oh, I see. Are you, are you married? Are you living with a bunch of, with, with people that you're sharing expenses? Uh, no. I'm a single mother. I have three children. Oh, I see, uh-huh. So, uh, right now, we're on, we get you know, aid from the state at this point because there's no other way to do it. And my ex-husband just sort of took off and doesn't pay child support Oh dear. So right now I know what I'm getting from the state and, uh, I have to balance, more or less, what I get from the state with my bills and, uh, you know, try to work as many days as possible. Any time they call me in. Uh-huh. But I still have to figure out. If I work too many days, then I lose all my state aid and if I don't work enough days then I don't get enough to meet the bills and it's like a juggling act every single month. Uh-huh. Like this week I've been just holding my breath and hoping they'll call me in
but they probably won't because next week the kids have school vacation. I see. So, you know, the four days before, they only have a four day week Uh-huh. and they usually don't need subs because everybody's pretty good about coming in oh, I see. They don't like to be absent before a vacation. Oh, sure. But we're shopping around as far as, well I'm shopping around as far as trying to get, uh, that's why I'm doing this, to get some extra money. And, uh, getting pledge sheets for the Boy Scouts. Uh-huh. My kids are in Boy Scouts so trying to get pledge sheets for the Boy Scouts because every penny I bring in is ten percent to me. So it's sort of helps defray the costs a little bit. But, you know, we do a lot of robbing Peter to pay Paul. I guess we're in the situation that a lot of middle-class Americans are in. Uh-huh. Yeah, you're the first, you know, uh, my next door neighbor just lost his job. In a, you know, one of these, uh,
Oh, my Lord. his company went broke. I mean went, you know, bankrupt. Actually, it was a subsidiary of a, of an outfit called U S Shoe or something. it was a computer subsidiary. I don't know what a shoe company's doing running a computer company. Really. But, uh, you know, they just folded it up and, uh, uh, told him to, they took the top management and gave them jobs with the, with the corporate, uh, at the corporate front office Uh-huh. and everybody else was sent packing. Oh Uh, hang on one second I've got Sure. uh, somebody was knocking on my door here. Uh, it sounds like, in a certain sense, at least at the present, I mean, it sounds, sounds terrible to say, but at the present stage, you probably are even more in the market for a, a budgetary thing than, than most people probably might be. In terms of keeping, keeping score of input and output. Right. Uh-huh.
Definitely. Do you have, do you have a computer at home or, Uh, yes we do. And we try to, Uh-huh. you know, I keep track of every penny. And, more or less, enter it in. Uh-huh. Every single day I'm at the computer. I see. And, it's like, okay, what do we have left, what do we have to pay, what have we paid this month. What hasn't come in yet, you know Uh-huh. Yeah. Have you, do you use a standard, uh, a standard spread sheet or I mean, Okay, this topic is, is Russia a threat to our security? I think they are more of a threat to their own people at this day and time. how do you feel about it?
Well, they do have, uh, a major internal problem Everybody wants to defect, and I can understand why. Um, I think their biggest problem is just, you know, obtaining food to live, so when you have the basic needs, uh, being unmet I don't think you think globally as far as, you know, being a threat to other people in the world. So, as soon as they get their, their own home country taken care of, then they'll consider, what they can do with the rest of the world. I believe Communism is very much waning It's, uh, pretty much on the way out of the door, insofar as the strong hold that they used to have, and the Russian people are all realizing that the Communist system does not work to their satisfaction or their way of surviving in this world, and their rebellions right now is the result of that If they can get the army, or the military to sway to their side, I think that, uh, it will be on the way out eventually. It's just a matter of time, because, in the Baltic States they have already massacred so many people who protested, and that hasn't set too well with their diplomacy for the, regarding the, uh, outcome of their affairs What's your synopsis? Well, I do, I do realize that, uh, uh, the Bush Administration isn't too happy with, with how they're handling their internal, uh, strife, you know, as far as diplomacy is concerned I think it's been a good, a good positive direction for uh, the Soviets as far as Yeltsin is concerned. You know, he was, uh, allowed to, what, in his, in the Congress they, they gave him more power as far as his republic in Russia is concerned, which is, gives him more power overall, which I think is a good sign that there will be some, you know, politically speaking, you know, he's going to have more power,
and I think it's a step in the right direction. I think Gorbachev realizes that he's got a, a major uh, uh, power figure, you know, competing against him, and I think it's going to be pretty close to his demise if he doesn't follow suit with Yeltsin as far as, uh, realizing, well, he does realize it, you know, with the fact that they reduced the uh, or they, increased the prices on their food, food and goods. Uh-huh. Uh. It, I think that it went up a thousand percent on most, yeah. that's incredible but they had to, uh, go in the direction of a market driven economy, and, and they had to bite the bullet for that. So that's a good move on, on Gorbachev's part in doing that. Uh-huh So, but Gorbachev has still not fully convinced everyone that, he's moving towards a two to three party system of government that, nor eliminating or diminishing the Communist power, and I guess that's where Yeltsin steps in, so far as his politics of government goes, uh, but I don't know how convinced the people are of him yet, myself. Well, that's all they got right now. That's their ray of hope. Uh-huh.
So, you know, they'll go with you know, whoever comes through for them. I, it, it's just that, the weird thing is, is that Gorbachev is the one that opened the floodgates, as far as with glasnost and perestroika and stuff, and I think he's got between the Old Guard and, in and the new, uh, glasnost. Uh, I think it's kind of escalated to a point where it's out of control. Uh-huh. And I think he had to pull in the reins the only way he knew how, in order to keep the peace on, peace on both sides. So I think that's where you know, kind of where he's stuck. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Uh, I understand. And that's the, that's the situation that he finds himself in, and you know, he's a tough guy, I mean, he's been through it So I have no doubt that he'll, I mean, I, I think overall he's been a, a good figure for the Soviet Union. I mean, I think his intentions and his ideals are, are uh, well intentioned. Uh-huh. And in the long-term, but I just think that because of the basic needs that the people don't have, I think that, uh, makes the problem most severe, and makes him look, look worse that what his, um, what his ideals are, personally.
I agree. What's bad for the Soviet system is that they have the resources to grow and produce their food, but somehow it just does not get out to the market the way it should. I think it's, I think it's a lot of, uh, oh, how do you put it? bureaucracy and, and, uh, one thing, and then all the corruption. I think there's a, a large amount of corruption on the, the have and the have-nots. You know, Yeah That's probably more true than, a lot of people realize. I I know you're going to have that with every society. At least we're more blatant about it, but it's very secret, and it's been going on for years. I mean, you can't change things overnight. Uh-huh. And, but if it gets to a point where people can't survive, I mean, there's revolution. You know, and that's It seems to be headed in that direction too. Yeah big time major but you know, that's, that's what happens when, you know, the cork blows
and you can't handle it anymore. I mean, that's that's the way the world, uh, you know, revolves that way and uh, I think that was a big stepping stone for them to initiate all their righteous ways of changing things, too. They, probably not enough, but I'm sure I lot of it's filtered down enough to the common folks that they have gotten wind of what they're missing out on. Yeah, I think they're starting to realize, but I, I just don't think they have the resources, if you were to compare, uh, the Americans to the Soviets as far as home computers are concerned or fact machines, Fax machines and cellular phones, and state of the art equipment that we are so used to. I don't think they even realize what's out there, and to what extent. Yeah, I'm sure a lot of them are missing those household items Yeah, the major conveniences of life Yeah what we consider just, I don't normal everyday things to them is real luxury. Which is unfortunate for them, Yeah and of course, most of us, we don't really appreciate what we've got because we've been so used to it. This is true. This is very true.
And we, it's human, it's human nature though to take things for granted and it kind of, you know, when you've lost something or, or uh, uh, don't have what other people have that's when you tend to realize, you know, what's out there and what, you know, what you have and what you don't have. Yeah I agree So the original question, do we think they're a threat to our, you know, a security threat? Yeah. Um, yes and no. Yeah, I can go with that answer too The only yes I could go to is if uh, a renegade crew decides to launch an attack or an accidental launching or something to that effect to, to a nuclear exchange, but I don't even see that occurring. Uh, because their internal strifes are more important right now than concentrating on any kind of outside affairs that they used to be to I guess. Um, no. Well, I don't really feel that the Soviets really want to blow up the world. I mean, um, we painted them back in the fifties and sixties as, as nonfeeling machine type people, and they're people just like us. I mean you know, they get up everyday, Uh-huh. and they put their pants on the same way,
and they have to eat and everything else, and I just don't feel that ... Okay. Well why don't you start cause it said I was suppose to ask you what do you, Do you have any elderly relatives currently in an, uh, nursing home now? Yes, I do. Do you? I have a grandmother. She's a hundred and two. Oh my gosh. She'll be a hundred and three in August. Uh-huh. And we decide not to put her in a nursing home. She lives with my mother and my father who also live here in town and then my sister takes care of her. Uh-huh. She, even though she is a hundred and two, she still has all of her faculties. Right. She still has her snap.
She takes care of her own business. This is the first year that she has gotten weak and actually has to have a little walker, but with somebody that needs around the clock care, I have seen my family age. Right. I have seen them in the, she's been there ten years now. And I have seen them age twenty in the time and, and with the expense and everything, Yeah. I I still think it is worth it if you, if you had a good nursing home and they needed some quality care, I would put someone in a nursing home. Right. My mother-in-law finally. They had to make a family decision. There's seven children in my husband's family and fortunately four of them live in the same home town and she has Alzheimer's. It was getting where she was getting dangerous. I mean letting strangers in and things like this, Uh-huh.
but they were very fortunate. It's a small town and she happens to room with one of the doctor's mothers and then she's got a lot of family there and that go and see her all of the time Oh, well that's good. but she really doesn't. Nobody thought she would adjust, but she has adjusted beautifully. Oh, that is great. But then I am also facing my father who is very sick and my mother and father reside in Colorado. She's been taking care of him. I don't know how much longer this can last and at that point because he requires round the clock. He can't do anything without her. He doesn't know when to take his medicine and it's really sad and I have thought if something would happen to my mother for, uh, my brothers are not interested in helping me so I would have to move him down here.
That way, I want to see the nursing home. If I have to put him into one. You know, where I can go see it. I, I'd be very uncomfortable with him being in Colorado. And, Oh, why yeah. I am sure you have got some really good nursing homes around Dallas. Yes. And some of them are limited care too where people can do, uh, like they have apartment styles, but that wouldn't work for him. I think he is beyond that. Where if you need help you can get it, but basically people kind of have a small apartment and doctors are available if they need them. Uh-huh. I, I know a lady that lives in a place similar to that in Austin. And allows, Yeah. Yeah.
Well, the only problem with these are that they are very expensive. Of course, I guess all nursing homes there is but, And the bad thing about it, before you can get any kind of government help, you just practically have, well you have to be a pauper. Right. It, it takes every penny. They want you to spend every dime you have before the government will pay for your your care. Yeah. Right. And that's the sad part about it. Yeah. I, uh, yeah, and I think a lot of people who do it now. In Colorado it's interesting. I talked to my mother. They allow you sixty five thousand dollars and your car and your home. And my mother could make it on that. What she probably would do is disburse the money to me and then I would send it back to her
so that's what would happen. Uh-huh. I think that's what most people do. You just have to give it, everything away. Yeah. It's unfortunate. I, I work at a brokerage firm and I have seen so many people that just have to gift, you know, their belongings as much as they can each year in anticipation of having to move to a nursing home. Right. Yeah. It's frightening. And I guess, uh, I don't know how old you are. I'm forty-six. You know, we're the generation moving into this and I don't know how our kids are going to take care of us. You know. I can't imagine. I'm twenty-nine. Yeah. And everybody in my family has always had, we don't have any children.
Everybody that has, has them later in life. Yeah. So, my, my mother and my father are in their late sixties. So, I mean, they're not that far away. Right. I also see on my generation a squeeze between looking to having to help my parents and still having to help my son because things are so rough out there job wise and he's still living at home and I don't know how he is ever going to get on his own the way things are. Oh, I know. And so, it's kind of, you feel squeezed in the middle of having both generations, but it, something will have to change as more and more of us get older. Uh, luckily, if we could be like your grandmother, I, uh you know, I would love to live to a hundred and two if I were okay. But you see these people in their seventies It, but yeah. Most people aren't. yeah, most aren't. That's the problem.
And that's the bad thing. I would hate to have lived so long. She lived by herself. My grandfather passed away before I was born so she lived by herself up until she was ninety, ninety-one. And just did everything, That's incredible. Hello Ann. Hello Chuck. Uh, the other day, I attended a conference here at Utah State University on recycling Uh-huh. and, uh, I was kind of interested to hear cause they had some people from the E P A and lots of different places Uh-huh. and, uh, they had basically decided that there is going to be a real problem here within a few years on solid waste. Uh, I didn't think that was a new revelation. Well, it's not too new. Right. So, what what is the E P A recommending now? Oh, they really didn't propose any solutions. Actually, they were, the guy was pretty negative about the things that the government was doing even though he was from the E P A. Uh-huh. But, he had a lot of, uh, facts to, to give and, uh, things like how many solid waste plants were being shut down
and, and, uh, one of the most interesting things that he was talking about was recycling of, of news print. He was talking about, uh, the City of New York and how they went and collected all this news print Yeah. and they could sell it for a while. They were able to sell it for some amount per ton and now at this stage of the game where they have gotten into recycling, they've collected so much news print that they have to pay to have it hauled away. Right. That's a, that's a common problem though. That it seems, that has happened in Dallas as well as New York and I try to recycle all of the newspapers that come to my house and after a while I just quit taking the newspaper because I couldn't recycle it anymore which isn't good for business on the other end either, I suppose. Yeah. We're doing some here in, in Cash Valley, the community here. Uh-huh. There's, uh, we've actually got a kind of a nice set up. We've got a couple of plants here that actually take, uh, recycled paper and shred it and spray it with chemical treatment so that it's not a fire hazard and make it into insulation Right. and they can actually use as much recycled paper as the community can get to them. Because they are actually buying it and shipping it in from outside. Well, that's good. So one of the real keys, it sounds like, to getting recycling for, uh, paper or something like that to go is to get some sort of business to actually want it once you have collected it.
Right. There has to be, uh, a reuse for it. I mean, that's why they recycle. The one I think is the most interesting is with the recycled bottles and all that, uh, the industry seems to be doing with the recycled polymers. Uh, everything from, uh, waste baskets to carpet to the no stick, I mean the sticky slide rugs under the carpet Uh-huh. and, uh, I think they are even putting it in the roadways these days and they're making clothes now that are recycled. Like the recycled plastic coke bottles and and milk cartons and things like that. And there was a paper presented at this conference from a guy from Alabama and he was kind of hired to do a study by two departments for the government. One was like, environmental protection and the other one was, oh, I can't remember what, but the basic idea, it was presented to him was how can we maximize the amount of energy that we can get back from recycling and minimize the volume of stuff that we are putting into our landfill Uh-huh. and, uh, the solution that he came up with for plastics, and it was really quite amazing, he says, well the best thing to do with plastics is to burn them. Oh really. He came to the conclusion, plastics is actually one of the biggest problems in landfills cause it's, it's low weight, but it's high volume so it takes up a lot of space Right. and there's almost no energy, there's very little energy value in actually doing a lot of the recycling,
but there is a lot of energy in it if you can burn it and use it, produce electricity. Huh. So his solution was to burn plastic. Collect it and burn it. Well, it's carbon so that makes sense, like a carbon fuel of some sort, but what what about emissions? Yeah. And it's more than even paper or something like that. There is more energy in it per pound or whatever. Well that was he didn't deal with that. Oh. He just said burn it. Okay He didn't talk about cleaning it up or anything like that. So it's not very practical No. Well it's interesting. I bet that was a good day, at the yeah, conference then. Yeah,
well, real interesting. Did it change anything for you? Uh, not too much. Uh, I got a bit. Actually, So, uh, you know, my feeling is that, uh, it's really being used today, it, it, you know, it, it really isn't doing any real good purpose for anything because it's not cost effective because of the amount of time the people end up waiting on appeal. Right, I think I've seen some statistics that say that, uh, it's more expensive to kill somebody than to keep them in prison for life. Right because you, you've got all, all the prison expenses, plus all the legal expenses. Right. Uh, and, you know, it certainly doesn't seem to be a deterrent. Uh, for one thing because it's used so infrequently and for another thing because I honestly don't think the people that are committing the crimes that would be eligible, you know, really care. Well, that's, committing them mostly is, you know, either crimes of passion or at the moment or they think they're not going to get caught or, Right, I mean, it's kind of like the AIDS phenomenon, you know, I'm invulnerable,
I don't need to care about this. You know, I, I, I'm never going to get caught. Yeah, Yeah, but you also have to think whether it's worthwhile on the individual basis, for example, someone like, uh, Jeffrey Dahlmer, do you want, by putting him in prison for life, there is still a possibility that he will get out again. Yeah, one, one way or another. Whereas if you kill him, there is not that possibility. Yeah, but, but the other side to that is, if you put him in prison for life, there's a chance that he might do things in prison, or, you know, and somehow redeem himself. Yeah, I don't think he could ever redeem himself, but in some cases, yes. Well, You know, so that, you know, the, the question is, you know, the other problem with capital punishment you run into is, what are you going to do about people who are later to have been found innocent, you know? There are cases where, you know, twenty, thirty years after the fact of getting evidence, especially as new technology comes along that might prove their innocence, then, oops, I'm sorry, guess we killed the wrong guy.
Yeah, it's, it's, yeah, once you've made a decision that way, it's a little difficult to go back on it. Right, you, you can apologize nicely, but, you know, you know, I think, you know, the, the price, you know, it, I've heard quotes, you know, it's better that a thousand people go free, than one person be unjustly imprisoned. I think is really the, the philosophy of the way our legal system works. Oh, yeah, yeah, it's the benefit of the doubt to the last iota is, uh, based on the, uh, person who is accused. Yeah, and, you know, the, I, I think that, you know, and the way it's being used now, it's like you listen to Bush is, you know, well, where are we going to impose you know, it's like for drug dealers is the new big thing like in, Tsongas is also saying, you know, capital, make it a capital crime to be a major drug dealer. Right. And, again, I don't thing these people care. *typo replace thing with think
They risk their lives every day. Yeah, and, there, there, they seem that the profit uh, drug dealers, the profit margin's so high that, yeah the, the risk is almost not there. Yeah. Yeah, and, and, you know, uh, especially, now, I live in, in Massachusetts, you know, we're going to get capital punishment here probably after the second coming or something. Yeah. So, you know, but you look at our, our crime rates and things like that and you compare them to, to like Texas or someplace that does, you know, it, it, it's impossible to make a case that it's, it's affecting it in any way. Yeah. I think it's mainly, people, like, they get the vengeance of it. Yeah, well it's also, Because, you know, I used to live in Georgia and, you know, the, the big thing down there was, all right, we have capital punishment, but if you look at who gets accused and who are the ones who actually get executed, it's very racially related and ethnically related, Oh, yeah it's lot of blacks.
Also a lot of young people. You know, a, a, a sixty-two year old guy is less likely to be put on death row from what I've seen. Right. And, you know, I, I think when you listen to like the, uh, the, the victims' families and things, they're always talking about, you know, uh, feeling justified or feeling, you know, like they've gotten something out of it, I mean, my thought has been, once the guy has been imprisoned, if he goes to jail forever or whatever, if he gets killed, it shouldn't make any difference to the, uh, the victim's family. The only thing that should really, I mean, obviously, if someone of mine who has close died, I'd probably feel differently, but you know, you know, what, the important thing is that they be caught and not be a danger to society. Right. Right and that, and, you know, also by keeping them in prison, you do have the possibility, though, we don't currently do this, of making restitution. Right, mean, You, you will work your prison job and any money you earn will go to the victim's family. Right and, the, the other thing is that, you know, I was reading through a book on, uh, geneo, human geneo research Uh-huh. and there, more and more things like schizophrenia
and why, does it just turn out to be genetic or biochemical in origin. Right. So if someday we can go to Jeff Dahlmer and say, well, the problem is you, you've got an endorphin imbalance and, you know, if you take this regularly, you'll be a sane and productive member of society you know, Uh-huh. you really get back to the question of, you know, is someone responsible for their actions. Yeah, well, I, I think on some of it, you have to say someone's responsible for his actions. I never like the, uh, the defense, Well, I never liked the, uh, insanity defense. Society made me do it. Yeah. Well, anyway I, uh, I, uh, oh, yeah. I did forget to ask you. What is your name by the way? Uh, I'm Ann. Oh, you're Ann. Hi. But, uh, anyway, I, uh, lot of, lot of interesting procedural things I think would be a good, be a good change if we're going to be talking about the subject tonight which in some I guess criminal courts the
Criminal courts? Yes. Yeah. the one of which was, uh, something, something that's been going on because of the Rodney King trial here in town and that is, uh, and that is the exclusion of jurors because of or in spite of their race. Uh, Oh, really? Yeah. Well, they, they, uh, the, the people that the, uh, the jury that's trying, uh, the officers in that case, is, is an all white panel. Uh-huh. And there's been a lot made in the local papers of that, fact. I see. I can't, I'm a little surprised they didn't get a change of venue on that one. They have. They have. They moved it up to the county north of here. Oh. Um, it's in Ventura and there's, there's still quite a bit of publicity obviously,
and it's kind of, it's kind of debatable whether you could get a fair trial almost anywhere because that, uh, that, Well, that videotape was just horrible. Yeah. It was everywhere. Yes. So you know, and I, I think it would be very difficult to find someone, uh, find a panel that would be, not have seen it and, and known of what was going on. Oh, I agree with you but I can't imagine that they would do an all white jury without having some sort of, of discrimination or, or, you know, uh, appeal on not having a jury of his peers and all of that kind of stuff. Exactly. You know, um, the you know, I, I'm kind of torn on this issue. It's like they're saying well on the one hand they're not, he's not getting a jury of his peers which is in some ways I think true. But on the other hand, it's, it's also saying that white jurors are not going to, are not going to convict. Right. Uh, you know, they're not going to do their job. Which is the whole, the whole point of being on a jury is to convict or, or, or, uh, let go based on whether, or not the person, whether or not the evidence says, that there's enough Exactly. Based on fact. Right.
How interesting. Oh. So what's the prevailing thought within the community? Um, I mean you know, what the news media is going to make of it, but what about the community? They, well, I guess it depends on who you talk to. I haven't talked to, uh, I haven't talked to a whole lot of black people on it but I, I rather imagine there's, there's some snickering about it. And a lot of the usually fatalistic, uh, here we go again folks, kind of stuff. Uh-huh. Oh, my goodness. That can't be good for Los Angeles either. No, no. I, you know, on, on, on one hand you know, on the one hand you almost hope that they convict them because it's they have that very strong piece of physical evidence showing, these people beating the heck out of this guy. Um, Oh, exactly. Unfortunately that kind of thing is not limited to a big city like Los Angeles. You're going to have it just about anywhere.
Uh-huh. There. *listen Well, But that's, that's interesting. Yeah. Um What about the judge who's hearing the case? Is he going to be impartial? Is he going to, be a a good adjudicator? I don't know. You know, and, and again there's something else you know, there was a uh, something else along those lines. There was a girl out here named I don't know if it's, it's got, it's got as much notoriety but it's rather almost as infamous here as it was, as it was with, uh, the Rodney King problem. Um, a girl walked into a Korean owned store and, uh, they, she had a dispute, black girl. Uh-huh. She, she had some kind of a dispute over some orange juice with the, with the owner of the store. The owner of the store popped her. Oh, really? Yeah.
And, and, oh, of course, they, you know, the criminal case went up and, and the judge gave the woman who shot her, shot the girl a, uh, uh, practically a suspended sentence. I mean it was it was just, Oh, my goodness. she gave her no time in jail, you know, all of these things and then, oh, there's we have these, we have people wondering around with petitions trying to get the judge, To get that judge recalled I would think. Yeah. Yeah. Huh. That's almost when you kind of wish that there where standardized sentences. Yeah. It would make, it would make life easier. It would. Yeah. Uh, But, you would know, the whole world would know what you were facing. And then it's a matter of, of deciding,
Okay. Uh, before a couple of years ago, I had a, a very narrow view of, of nursing homes and it was, uh, more like a funeral home. I always joked around about it being a funeral home and not really a nursing home. And, uh, then I had to do some volunteer work here in Tyler, Texas and I went to one and it just had a very good activities director. Everyone was cheerful and now I don't have such a bad view of nursing homes anymore. But I, I certainly wouldn't want to send my parent unless it was an absolute last resort. Uh, I have a sister that is in nursing school and she's real interested in geriatrics. Well, that sounds good. Yeah. So, uh, she, she's real interested in, uh, what Ann Richards has been doing. She's, Ann Richards is really cracking down on, uh, the nursing homes and, I don't know, you wouldn't know anything about a Texas governor I've heard the name and that's about all it goes. Okay.
Ann Richards is our governor in Texas and she's really cracking down on restrictions and what goes on in nursing homes. And, uh, my sister's real interested in that and, and getting into the, to that side of nursing. Yeah. That's one problem with the, the nursing home environment. It, the elderly, even out of the nursing home, are very open to abuse. Right. Uh, you know, they don't always have their full wits about them. Uh-huh. They're not completely up on what should be going on or what's not going on. Uh-huh. And it can be pretty sad. I've got a, had a grandmother who had a stroke. And she was in a nursing home for four or five years before she died. Oh. And, you know, it's the type of thing that she was living down in Florida. My families was up in Maryland Uh-huh. and the other part of her family was up in, uh, New York state. Right.
And, you know, it was very difficult for either them or my grandfather to take care of her since she was, uh, you know, could not do very much for herself after the stroke. Right. And, you know, the nursing home was the, you know, best facility to put her in. You know, besides moving her up which is not a practical solution since both my parents work Uh-huh. and both my, uh, aunts and uncle work. Which means it's, you know, very difficult for Right. you essentially need to have someone taking care of the person full-time. Right. And, you know, there's also a lot of medical problems that can't always be completely handled in the home. Which makes it, you know, Right. it's a necessary evil I think. Uh-huh. It sure is. And some of the really nice ones that really take care of their people are so expensive. Because cause they can afford to hire the people that are really going to care for the older. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, even there you have to watch out for, you know, you get one person who's a little bit dishonest working in there and, you know, the elderly sometimes have a lot of jewelry and other stuff that just very easily tends to disappear in the nursing homes. Oh, yeah.
Right. My grandfather passed away several years ago. I was much younger. But, uh, he was in the nursing home the last several years of his life and someone visited him every day. My grandmother did. But, uh, if she couldn't, someone visited him every day. It was in a very small town nursing home. Uh-huh. And, uh, people didn't get paid much there at all. They didn't care about what went on. Yeah. They would let a, let a patient get a lot of bed sores. Uh-huh. And, uh, the, the people living in the nursing home would have all kinds of needs that wouldn't get met because they were just old people. And then, the nurses and doctors really didn't put any for, forth any loving care for them. Either that or they're just so understaffed that they can't afford to put in the, uh, care that they need. Cause it's, you know, Right. Right. an elderly person can, you know,
it's like a newborn baby. You need to have twenty-four hour care uh, answering all the needs cause they can't do much for themselves at certain points. Uh-huh. Right. Right. And nurses get so worn down. Uh-huh. And, you know, there's a lot of, number of the elderly are very, you know, complaining because they remember the way that things used to be. And remember being able to do things for themselves which, you know, they no longer can. Right. Oh, sure. And they feel they feel pretty helpless. And it, very, very hard for them to accept that. We just, uh, moved my grandfather into, not a nursing home but, you know, a transitional type facility. Is it, uh, like a retirement center? More of a retirement home. He's got his own efficiency apartment. Uh-huh. And they provide one meal a day. Uh-huh.
And, you know, the rest of the housekeeping and other meals a day are up to him. Uh-huh. But they do have, you know, group activities going on. How's he handling that? Uh, he'd much rather be living alone in his apartment down in Florida. Uh-huh. Uh, you know, to move into that facility we moved him from Florida up to Maryland and it's, it's a bit of a shock to the system, weather-wise, if nothing else. Ooh. Oh, sure. There wasn't anything like that, that you could do in Florida? Well there was stuff like that in Florida but, Uh, so, uh, what are your benefits like at your job, and how do you feel about them? Uh, pretty good, actually. I work for Hewlett Packard and they have, uh, a pretty good, uh, benefits package. In fact, they're, they're kind of known, uh, for having good benefits. The pay isn't fabulous,
although I saw a survey recently and I'm actually making just about as much as, you know, I'm making actually over average, over the average for my career, my experience and all that stuff which kind of surprised me. Oh, that's good. Uh-huh. What kind of a degree have you got? I've got a Bachelor's in electrical engineering so, Oh. And I'm not, like, a hugely advanced degree or any that Uh-huh. Uh, anyway, the, our benefits are pretty good. We've got stock purchase program and a, that, that's pretty generous, although you have to hold the stock for two years before you get the company contribution which is, kind of a, a pain, Uh-huh. but, uh, there's a four O one K plan uh, for, uh, sheltering some taxable income. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh, there's, How long have you been with them? I've been with them for seven years.
Uh. Yeah. That's good. And, the best thing, and a lot of the stuff, the best thing is like four years or five years, it's pretty soon, you're completely vested in the retirement plan and everything, Uh-huh. so, uh, it's not but there's full, uh, there's several medical plans to choose from, uh, that cover pretty much everything. I don't get sick that often, so I don't pay much of it, and I pay five dollars every time I visit the, the hospital that, you know, for a checkup or whatever. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh, they don't cover eyes though, and I, I have contact lenses, so that's kind of a pain. Uh-huh. But, you know, I I can live, But, for all practical purpose, you are almost a hundred percent covered. Oh, yeah, yeah.
So that you've got small, small things to gripe about. Right. Wow. And, Well, that sounds like you must feel really good about it. Yeah, yeah, and, and the dental plan is The dental plan, I pay absolutely nothing because, uh Wow. I, I guess they would charge a little bit if there was some orthodontia or something for one of my dependents or something like that Uh-huh. but that's not the case, Uh-huh. so, I guess nothing. It's fabulous. Wow. Uh, the, what about you? Well, I, uh, work in Washington at the Naval Research Laboratory.
I also have a part time job at a law firm and I get no benefits from them, to the part time work although, they pay better per hour than my, my sort of, quote, real job does. Uh-huh. Uh, and benefits, through the government are, uh, really, uh, they just, uh, they're not the greatest. Uh, I, before I, I, uh, uh, got my degree I'm, uh, a computer scientist Uh-huh. and before I got my degree, I had, uh, done paralegal work for law firms here in Washington Uh-huh. and, uh, at that time, I was in gravy city. Uh, the law firms in this town are not, you know, for a long time were just rolling in the dough in the early eighties Yeah. and, uh, benefits were just amazing Uh-huh. and we had everything paid for, and, uh, anyway, with the government, it's not, uh, quite that nice a deal. Uh, but it's, you know, it's, it's okay. What we have to do is, we have to pay, uh, about twenty percent of our, uh, uh, our costs
and it's deducted from our check each month and that sort of thing, and the plans that are available to us, uh, range from kind of mediocre to really sweet and, uh, so I, I think I'm actually involved in a relatively good plan at this point. Uh, but, uh, it could be better, that's for sure, and, uh, but, you know there are other things that you get when you work for the government uh, in, in terms of, uh, more relaxed atmosphere. Yeah. It's really nice to be, for me, anyway, to be able to work in, uh, a research atmosphere, uh, where I don't have to, uh, uh, you know, worry about, uh, academics or anything like that, and, so I'm, I'm really kind of happy about that end of, of things. It's, uh, Yeah, one of the things with my company is that they've, uh, got a reputation for a lot of job security and, uh there's a lot of different things that they do, lot of different divisions even this area, in the San Francisco Bay Area that they do, Uh-huh. so there's, I, myself have moved around quite a bit within the company Uh-huh. and it's, and I, and I haven't had to move my residence to do that. You know, I still live in San Jose and,
Wow, that's fabulous. Yeah it, You see, now that's, that's interesting, because I have a cousin whose husband works for Hewlett Packard up in the Massachusetts area. Oh, yeah? Yeah. He, he lives in Andover Uh-huh. and, uh, the work that he, he's, uh, specifically an engineer and, and does work with, uh, the Hewlett Packard machines that do, uh, uh, sonographic imagining Right, right. and, uh, I've been over to see his complex over there and it's amazing. Uh-huh. It's, it's all ecologically designed and, and, uh, he seems really, really happy with the, the set up. Yeah,
yeah. And, In fact, I know a guy who works at Andover who used to work, who I used to work with out here Uh-huh. and he moved his family back east a few years ago to, to take that position. Kind of interesting. Uh, anyhow, Steve, uh, with the election year and whatnot coming up, do you think we ought to cut taxes, raise them, or, or, or what do you think? Well, that's, that's a really hard question. I do know that, uh, politicians always talking out of both sides of their mouths. Uh, I let's example, uh, our friend, the President, right now, says no new taxes, we should and especially, if anything, be cutting taxes now because of the recession and at the same time, the budget he sent to Congress has tax and fee increases, so, uh, I know the politicians, uh, aren't, aren't straightforward. Now, in terms of economics I'm not, it's hard, hard to call. It really is.
Uh-huh. See, I never thought really, it's, uh, I never really thought that, that the, the question really had to do whether or not we're paying too much or too little. I, I always that the, the real question was is, are we getting a reasonable return on, on investment. For instance, like Social Security tax or uh, I mean, that's, that's tax we're paying money and, and supposedly this money is going into some kind of fund so that when it comes our turn to retire, the money will be there for us. Right. So that's, yeah, you know, when I, when I see that money taken out of my paycheck each, each week, I, or each, every other week, I, I really think that money's history and you know, so as far as return investment, that's not, that's nothing Yes, uh, and we're not even going to get the exact same number of dollars back. Uh, someone was telling me that there is a, uh, uh, there's still an office in, uh, you know, staffed with, with people there and, in D C that are researching to find a cure for polio, which, I may be wrong, but I believe that the cure for polio is already founded, but, but supposedly once you have an office in D C, or, you know, and, and staff it with people, it's really tough to close it down and, and they just haven't yet. Well, yeah,
I'm not exactly sure, uh, about polio in particular. I know we have a polio vaccine come will prevent somebody from getting polio Uh-huh. I'm not sure if we know what to do in terms of curing some who has already gotten polio. Well, that might be the difference. I don't know. Uh, the other thing that, uh, I remember seeing on T V lately is, uh, had to do with, it's like seventy-five percent of the historical sites in America are in the home districts of very powerful people politically Right. that, that for some reason, historical sites with, you know, the, the full federal money and everything seem to appear as, as almost as like political favors to, to very strong politicians. Yeah, it's, it's, it's funny because, uh, it was one of the things that Bush is trying really hard to get ahold of is the line item veto where, uh, you know, Congress is able to attach all kinds of, uh, funny amendments for individual, uh, congressional districts to the, to the main budget proposals Uh-huh. and the poor President has, has to, uh, either accept or reject the whole thing. So, it sounds like you, uh, you think that, that we'd be able to save some money by, uh passing the line item veto. Oh. I, I think the line item veto is not, not, is not necessarily a bad thing, assuming that the, uh, the, the President, uh, uses it to get rid of, uh, this kind of waste. On the other hand, uh, it, it assumes that you have lots of confidence in your President not to veto important things. Uh, and just to get rid of the unimportant things. Yeah. And whenever there's that kind of subjective judgment, there's always going to be a dispute as to, uh, where the where the boundary between waste and, and necessity is.
Uh-huh. So I'm not, I'm not sure that, that that will help solve our problems, but there definitely is, is a problem with, uh, I forgot, there's a political term for this stuff, pork barrel or something. Yeah. Uh, Pork barrel politics. Pork barrel politics. there has to be some way to do it. I know state governors usually have line item vetos and, uh, I lived in Massachusetts for a while and, uh, when Dukakis vetoed certain things, there was a big uproar and wasn't necessarily so popular. Yeah, but Massachusetts wasn't, when Dukakis was there, anyway, wasn't in that great shape financially. at least at the end. Uh-huh. I mean, I don't know, I, Yeah,
they were very good at first, they were in very good financials at first and, uh, that's part of the reason he became a nominee is because things went so well. And then, of course, the bottom fell out. It's, uh, I mean, it's, it's tough. I mean, there's, there's two ways you can kind of go to get out of tough financial situations. I guess you can like raise taxes and then create like job programs and whatnot or you can hope that if people keep their money that they'll spend more and create jobs and, and whatnot. And spare the economy. Yeah, it's really, it's a hard balance. It, it definitely is. Even not for government, even just, say, for a small business. Uh, I know some, Uh, well, I'm not sure how it is in Georgia, but in, in Pittsburgh the the crime rate really is not very high at the moment. Is that, is that true for, for Atlanta? Atlanta is kind of high. Uh, it's, it's lower than it has been in the past. Uh, I guess nineteen ninety is when it start to drop off, and usually around the Christmas season is usually when the crime rate is a little bit higher.
Yeah, I, that's probably not true only for Atlanta, but for just about anywhere. Yeah. Uh, what kind of crime problem do you usually run into? Any specifics Well, uh, the least, what, from what's on the news, uh, there are very few, like actual robberies reported, uh, uh, of, of residences. What's more likely to occur is, uh, robbery of, uh, you know, knocking over a, a small store or a car theft, you know, it, things of that nature. Very few, uh, assaults, although on the college campuses, uh, there are, uh, cases of, you know, like people getting machine from a, from an automated teller and, you know, somebody trying to, to device a scam for, for, uh, getting the money for them that actually preys mostly on foreigners. Um. But mostly petty things and, no, nothing, nothing really too big. Right, well, I guess here we run into that sometime, but I guess a lot of crimes are done with apartment type break ins that type, not much home break ins. Right. There are some, but not, not very high. Uh, as far as tellers and things like that, it's not extremely high either. There were one case where, uh, this one guy, uh, was taking women from the teller and, and, you know, making them give him money and stuff and then at the same time, raping them all, Uh-huh.
so, so that's kind of like a double assault there. Yeah, uh, a strange case that, uh, that happened, oh, it's about, about a year ago was someone actually stole a complete automated teller machine. Really? It was a free standing machine and they backed up into it with a truck and put it on the back and drove away with it. Uh-huh. Oh, wow. Now, there's a crime for you. Yeah, there's a crime. Yeah, but, uh, I guess most of the things that happen around here are, are pretty, uh, innocuous. Although, uh, from what I hear in the news, and, and I, I saw an episode of the T V show, COPS uh, one time that was in Pittsburgh, Uh-huh. and, uh, it, it, it did surprise me, because, you know, they were doing drug arrests and thing, and things like that, but I, I don't really think those things happen too often because, like I said, from what's reported in the news, at least, it's, it's not all that common. Oh, okay. I don't know,
crime situations here, they, like I say, lot of, lot of cases is usually just apartments and, and break ins and things like that and a lot of it is due to drugs. Uh, drug related, you know, in, in most cases, Yeah. it's not like, uh, it's someone do steal a, a or television or V C R or something like that it is for drugs, you know, because you really can't on the street make any money off of it per se, you know, you going to get ten or fifteen bucks for it Yeah. so you really not making a sizeable profit. So it's not really lucrative to take chances like that, you know, even though it, it does exist. You know, I, just to diverge a little bit, uh, I live in an apartment. Right now I'm finishing out my last semester at the University of Pittsburgh and, uh, the apartment like would be very easy for just about anyone to break in Right. But, even so, it, I mean, it's, it's still difficult for me to convince my apartment mates to, to like lock the doors when they go out you know, and things like that. Yeah. Uh-huh. Uh, it would be so easy for someone who is motivated to do so to just, you know, sit out back, take a look at when people are here and when they're not just come in, you know, Uh-huh. there's a T V and a V C R
and, they could, uh, they could get in pretty easy and, and especially, uh, since there are bedrooms upstairs and people leave the door open, you know, while they're upstairs playing music, Uh-huh. it could still happen then. Yeah, that's true, but you'd be surprised also how, much people watch you that even not, uh, participating in any type crime. I guess there was one case, I was surprised, uh, so happened this person worked at the same place, I work for Georgia Tech and they work at the same place I did, but I didn't know that they had been watching me because I was getting ready to, to go in my car one morning and the first thing they said is, uh, you must don't have to be to work at eight, you know, like shock, I, uh, get a lot of my news driving home from work listening to ALL THINGS CONSIDERED on national public radio. Uh, that is one of my big sources for current events information. Uh, I really like that coverage. My wife, uh, on the other hand is home most of the day and she watches a lot of the cable news network.
Have you seen, uh, have you, uh, ever heard of ALL THINGS CONSIDERED? No, we don't have the, uh, national public radio in, in my area. Uh-huh. I can hear it at the, uh, uh, oh, the college town nearby when I'm in Stillwater, which is about an hour away, but the F M signal doesn't reach this far. Uh-huh. Uh, I'll listen to shortwave quite a bit. It gives you a whole different perspective on the news, uh, when you hear it from, say, a European point of view, or from the country of origin. Uh-huh. Uh, I agree with you, too, on the, uh, uh, the cable channel, C N N and HEADLINE NEWS. Uh, I'm not too satisfied with our local newspaper uh, which is why I rely on shortwave and, and then the cable, cable, C N N. Uh-huh. I'm, uh, interested in the, in the shortwave aspect of it. Uh, how do you find that the, the coverage from other places in the world uh, compares with the American coverage of, how do you think that, uh, the viewpoints differ? I think a lot of it is just, uh, the fact that in the U S you're so far removed, uh, in a lot of cases from, say, conflicts or, or it's not happening in your backyard Uh-huh. so it's, it's more of a, it's not as a personal, uh, the news isn't as personal in what we receive domestically than, than what's on shortwave.
It's, B B C is, uh, oh, I don't know the right word, is, is almost, uh, they almost take all emotions out of it when they report it Uh-huh. and it just, they seem to give more of just the facts than opinions. Do you think, then, that, uh, the American media is presenting an opinion along with their facts? Uh, very much so, very much so, and I, I think a lot of it is, uh, especially T V news, they don't really have the time and a lot of them don't have the education and the background to, uh, oh, to really decipher the news and to really explain it. I mean, I, you know, I think it's important to interpret it, but a lot of times the person doesn't have the experience to, to do the interpreting. Uh-huh. Which, uh, which approach do you find to be, uh, more useful, the, the interpretive approach or the straight reporting? Oh, I like the straight reporting. Uh, and then I, I hope to be able to form my own opinion of it. It's, it's nice to hear someone's interpretation of it Uh-huh. uh, I always think it's humorous when, when the President gives the State of the Union and, uh, for thirty minutes and then for an hour and a half you hear different commentators explaining what you just heard.
And a lot of time I don't hear exactly what they, what they write into it. Uh-huh. So I, overall, I think I would rather hear just straight reporting. One of the things that I found interesting last year during the, uh, the Gulf conflict was a sentiment against, uh, Peter Arnett, who had stayed in Iraq and was presenting, uh, some of the things that were available. Uh, there was a, there was, uh, a piece where he was showing a bombed out building where there was obviously a crudely, uh, uh, hastily erected sign saying baby milk factory, and while he was being severely, uh, censored and could not make any judgment call on this, it was fairly obvious that it was a piece of propaganda, but people were really down on him for reporting the fact that, you know, this isn't a baby milk factory, how could he say it was, uh, I, I think that, that to me showed that the Americans were really getting used to having the, not just the facts, but also the conclusions and opinions spoon fed to them. Yeah, I, I think people are, people have that opinion. They, they want to sit down in front of the TV and, uh, or at a, read a magazine or U S A TODAY and read in four paragraphs, uh, and, and find out So, let's talk about the, uh, wonderful abuses in the State of Pennsylvania of personal property taxes whereby you can purchase something mail order and after the fact, the State of Pennsylvania can find out about it and send you a bill for the sales tax appropriate to that item that you purchased as well as interest and penalties from the time that you bought it. What do you think? Is Pennsylvania kind of out of line there? Well, actually, I don't think they're out of line. Devil's advocate possibly, but it, you are trying to avoid paying taxes and whether or not you agree with that law, you're still circumventing it.
You are legal in, in your circumvention of that law. What, what if you're not doing it in order to circumvent the law though? I mean what if you don't even realize that you're subject to paying, uh, income tax on something that you purchase mail order? Really, I, I, I don't think that's a valid argument. I think that most people are quite aware they're not paying that six percent sales tax. Um, naturally some, some things you just can't find in your local K-Mart or, or, uh, Bryn Mawr stereo dealer. Uh, but then why not pay, pay the sales tax Corporations have to, why should an individual just because it's, just because the state can't really find out about it, be able to avoid paying sales tax? Well, I mean, it seems to me that, generally, at least in my own experience, when I purchase something mail order, it's not to circumvent paying sales tax to the State of Pennsylvania. It's because, I'm sorry, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Yes. Uh, it's because I, I can't find the item that I want at a competitive price anywhere in my local area. So I go outside the area for that. And I think that it's not my responsibility to police myself and pay Pennsylvania what they believe they are owed even though, you know, the revenue stream went to another state. I don't, I don't think that that's my responsibility as a, as a conscientious consumer. I, I'll agree it, it's not your responsibility but, is it also legal, for you to do that? from what I understand from various net readings, it, the Federal government is going to try to legislate a more aggressive enforcement of state tax schemes, uh, in, into place in the next few years. It is, it is a lost revenue stream right now
and states can use all the revenue they can get. With some, with something like that, do your arguments still apply? Well, I think that if, if policy is established and if a mechanism is put into place to promote the collection of taxes in this fashion, then I don't argue with it. Because it's not a burden on the consumer to remember that oh, I bought this out of state. I need to Xerox the receipt and make out a check for six percent and send it to Pennsylvania. Which is exactly what businesses do at the present. Right. But the point is is that businesses do that. The business that you purchase the thing from is responsible for collecting the appropriate sales tax and forwarding it to the state in question. That's a cost of doing business. The burden shouldn't be placed on the consumer. And I, I I was actually talking about businesses purchasing something mail order and then having, having to pay sales tax on it. Uh. That's my understanding of the way, uh, the way it works. Usually, the, the person ordering doesn't pay. But the accounting department will, uh, suck up all the bills at the end of the month and realize how much they have to pay. And there there are some substantial, nasty penalties, um, if you, if businesses try to avoid that. Uh, do you mean businesses from the point of view as, of, of selling things to a consumer and then being responsible for the sales tax? Or purchasing. No. Businesses, uh if purchasing things mail order,
if, if I'm a computer consulting firm and I see these, this great deal on forty-six mother boards, uh, from, from say Utah. Um, I, I might buy the mother boards from Utah but then still have to pay Pennsylvania sales tax. My accounting department will at the end of the month. I think that I think that's the way things work in Pennsylvania. And I know they work that way in, uh, say here in D C. Yeah. See I'm unfamiliar with that because I don't, I never see that end of the business. Yeah. So, my only experience has been from the point of view of a consumer. Uh, but, if that's the case, if the business is responsible for policing themselves, then I think some well defined mechanisms need to be in place so that, uh, the opportunity to forget that you owe sales tax for something, uh, can be avoided. That's true. a a big hole does exist right now, uh, in that consumers can just say oh, I, I forgot that. There, there is no well defined mechanism at all and, and that it is a a loss. I, I think is that the Federal government will try to establish a mechanism just to do just that in in order to gain the revenue that's being lost. Uh, I mean, I, I don't know if I agree with that. But it, but, Kathy? Uh-huh. Do you, So, what is your, uh, family,
what do you usually do as far as budgeting? We have a very detailed budget. Because my husband is a finance major. Uh-huh. And we have, you know, we have money that we take out each month that we, uh, you know, for food and, and for, for gas and things like that. And then we put aside so much money each month for birthdays and for Christmas and for, uh, other things. Uh-huh. Then we take our major purchases we want to make during that year and we budget them into what we call our, our needs and wants list. Uh-huh. And so, uh, the things that, like a vacation. We have a vacation fund. We have a fund for the things we need. And then a, for the things that we want. Uh-huh. And, uh, and we're continually putting into those, you know, each month how much we're going to need and then we know the month that we're going to have enough to get that particular item. Uh-huh. So we very rarely buy anything on credit. Everything we buy is paid for. Yeah. My husband is a finance major also
And, uh, we kind of have the same plan. Uh, we have one credit card and every month we put, uh, you know, the same amount in for retirement. Uh, and we budget, we're, our, our new thing to our budget is we just had a baby. So we're, budgeting, uh, each month, uh, an allowance for his education starting now. Right. Right. So that's in our budget every month now. That's the newest addition. But we too do the same thing as far as, uh, we have a set amount we take, oh, one big vacation a year and then maybe, you know, three small vacations. So we, you know, an, exact amount that we spend on that each year. Right. And, Uh, we have found that we spend less money if we pull out the money. Uh instead of just writing checks for things. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. If we actually pull it out and keep it in a safe here. I see.
And we actually pull out the money each month that we want to put in for birthdays, that we want to put in for, uh, the vacation. That we put in for Christmas. Like you have a separate account for that then? Well, a lot of that, uh, I don't know how safe it is. I guess, uh, we keep it all in a safe here at the house. Oh, I see. Uh-huh. And so it's actually pulled out. Then we keep our Oh, I see. we have a savings account for the kids' education. That money goes into there. Uh-huh. Each of our, we have three children. So they each have their own account. I see. That money is put into each month. Uh-huh. Does your husband deal in, uh, stocks and bonds and mutual funds and all that kind of stuff? does he invest in that and for long-term?
He does somewhat. Yeah. He does somewhat. Uh-huh. Uh, we have an investment plan. Yeah. I guess he does. Uh-huh. But, uh, we have really found, this is the first year we've done it this way. And we are really saving a lot of money. Really. Because you're, you've, you've sat down with a piece of paper and said well let's see what are we going to, so what goes into that, that particular thing? It's vacations, Christmas. Christmas, birthdays, uh, car maintenance, dental, medical, we just averaged out how much last year we used per month on medical and how much we used on dental Uh-huh. and, uh, and so now when we have to come up with that deductible that our insurance doesn't cover rather than wondering where it's going to come from, Right.
we have it, you know. Uh-huh. And when, when we see something on sale, uh, instead of just looking in our checking account and saying well we've got enough and getting it, and then when something comes up, you know, kind of scrimping to pay for a medical bill. Everything's taken care of. Uh-huh. And we're finding that we even have more money than we thought. Really. Yeah Well, you know, uh, what do you do as far as, I, I take it, do you, uh, run the family budget as far as, uh, groceries and that sort of thing? I do. Uh-huh. All the money. Uh-huh. And how, what's that? All the money is turned over to me. Uh-huh. Do you have a set amount that, that you spend each month or or how do you work that? Yes.
I have a set amount. It's very generous and I usually have extra. Uh-huh. And so then that can go, uh, you know, either back into our checking account or I can just carry it over. Uh-huh. Uh, you know, there are certain months of the year that you'll spend more on food than other months. And certain times when that will be left over. Uh-huh. But that's completely up to me how I do that. And then, uh, because I don't work. I stay home. Uh-huh. I do too. I stay home also. And so it's kind of my money and I also get my own money to do what I want to. Go to lunches, you know, and do that kind of thing. Uh-huh. We have a clothing, uh, envelope for each of the kids and for myself and my husband that we put how much we figure we need each month on clothing. Uh-huh. It really works out great.
We're finding that we have a lot more money to spend on things like that. And we're, Yeah. What, what, as far as like big things like something comes up and you have to buy a T V or a big item, like for the house. How, do you have like a household? Yes. We have a household budget. Like we're going to need to buy a bed for my daughter that's coming out of her crib this year. Uh-huh. And also, we need a new bed. And so we've got both of those budgeted and we put a certain amount in each month and we know which month we'll enough saved to go buy those. Uh-huh. And if we find one on sale before then, then we can just take that and put it towards Well, here in Logan, Utah, we've got a nice little valley here and it's like crystal clear all the time except for during the winter when the inversion sets in and then we get a little bit of pollution in the valley.

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