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4800 | From: jkellett@netcom.com (Joe Kellett)
Subject: Re: Opinions asked about rejection
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 22
William Mayne (mayne@pipe.cs.fsu.edu) wrote:
: In article <Apr.1.02.34.21.1993.21547@athos.rutgers.edu> jayne@mmalt.guild.org (Jayne Kulikauskas) writes:
: >People who reject God don't want to be wth Him in heaven. We spend our
: >lives choosing to be either for Him or against Him. God does not force
: >Himself on us.
: I must say that I am shocked. My impression has been that Jayne Kulikaskas
: usually writes this much less offensive and ludicrous than this. I am not
: saying that the offensiveness is intentional, but it is clear and it is
: something for Christians to consider.
Jayne stands in pretty good company. C.S. Lewis wrote a whole book
promoting the idea contained in her first sentence quoted above. It is
called "The Final Divorce". Excellent book on the subject of Heaven and
Hell, highly recommended. It's an allegory of souls who are invited, indeed
beseeched to enter Heaven, but reject the offer because being with God in
Heaven means giving up their false pride.
--
Joe Kellett
jkellett@netcom.com
|
4801 | From: zia@castle.ed.ac.uk (Zia Manji)
Subject: HELP PLEASE - Hand Scanner Problem
Organization: Edinburgh University
Lines: 29
IF YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE CAERE TYPIST PLUS GRAPHICS
HAND SCANNER, PLEASE READ ON AND SAVE MY LIFE.........
My problem is that my Caere Typist Plus Graphics Hand Scanner will not
connect to my PowerBook 160.
The cable from the scanner will not fit the SCSI port of the computer.
I managed to gaet a cabled assembled that adapted the cord to the
computer. However, this placed the computer into SCSI mode, that is it
acted as an external hard disk whenever i switched the computer on.
I've asked an engineer in London to assemble a new Cable for me. But
he's taken 14 weeks and has yet to find the solution, out of sheer
laziness. And I know that a cable exists to solve the problem.
If you know the solution. Please let me know what cable I need and how I
can get hold of one.
My E-Mail address is :
zia@uk.ac.ed.castle
I will be truely grateful for all your help.
Thanking you in advance,
Zia.
|
4802 | From: kadie@cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M Kadie)
Subject: Re: Clipper Crap
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Lines: 9
>encryption's dual-edge sword: encryption helps to protect the
>privacy of individuals and industry, but it also can shield
>criminals and terrorists. We need the "Clipper Chip" and other
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is
the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." -- William Pitt
--
Carl Kadie -- I do not represent any organization; this is just me.
= kadie@cs.uiuc.edu =
|
4803 | From: whheydt@pbhya.pacbell.com (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Ancient Books
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Lines: 21
In article <Apr.9.01.11.35.1993.16957@athos.rutgers.edu>, cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes:
> But, since the manuscripts are so close to the actual event, especially as
> compared with ancient "non-Christian" history, could it help show that we have
> accurate copies of the original texts?
That's a very weak argument--due the lack (with regard to critical
events) of independent supporting texts.
As for the dating of the oldest extant texts of the NT.... How would
you feel about the US Civil War in a couple of thousand years if the
only extant text was written about *now*? Now adjust for a largely
illiterate population, and one in which every copy of a manuscript is
done by hand....
--Hal
--
Hal Heydt |
Analyst, Pacific*Bell | If you think the system is working,
510-823-5447 | Ask someone who's waiting for a prompt.
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM |
|
4804 | From: aron@tikal.ced.berkeley.edu (Aron Bonar)
Subject: Re: Photoshop for Windows
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Lines: 26
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: tikal.ced.berkeley.edu
In article <1993Apr22.011720.28958@midway.uchicago.edu>, dgf1@quads.uchicago.edu (David Farley) writes:
|> In article <C5uHIM.JFq@rot.qc.ca> beaver@rot.qc.ca (Andre Boivert) writes:
|> >
|> >
|> >I am looking for comments from people who have used/heard about PhotoShop
|> >for Windows. Is it good? How does it compare to the Mac version? Is there
|> >a lot of bugs (I heard the Windows version needs "fine-tuning)?
|> >
|> >Any comments would be greatly appreciated..
|> >
|> >Thank you.
|> >
|> >Andre Boisvert
|> >beaver@rot.qc.ca
|> >
|> An review of both the Mac and Windows versions in either PC Week or Info
|> World this week, said that the Windows version was considerably slower
|> than the Mac. A more useful comparison would have been between PhotoStyler
|> and PhotoShop for Windows. David
|>
I don't know about that...I've used Photoshop 2.5 on both a 486dx-50 and a Quadra
950...I'd say they are roughly equal. If anything the 486 was faster.
Both systems were running in 24 bit color and had the same amount of RAM (16 megs)
I also believe the quadra had one of those photoshop accelerators.
|
4805 | From: mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca (Malcolm Lee)
Subject: Re: A KIND and LOVING God!!
Organization: Royal Roads Military College, Victoria, B.C.
Lines: 99
In article <1r1ma9INNno7@owl.csrv.uidaho.edu>, lanph872@crow.csrv.uidaho.edu (Rob Lanphier) writes:
|> Malcolm Lee (mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca) wrote:
|>
|> : Do you consider Neo-Nazis and white supremists to be Christian? I'd hardly
|> : classify them as Christian. Do they follow the teachings of Christ? Love
|> : one another. Love your neighbour as yourself. Love your enemies. Is Jesus
|> : Christ their Lord and Saviour? By the persecution of Jews, they are violating
|> : all the precepts of what Christ died for. They are in direct violation of
|> : the teachings of Christ. Even Jesus who was crucified by the Jewish leaders
|> : of that time, loved His enemies by asking the Father for forgiveness of their
|> : sins. I am a Christian and I bear no animosity towards Jews or any one else.
|> : The enemy is Satan, not our fellow man.
|>
|> In Mark 16:16, Jesus is quoted as saying "Whoever believes and is baptized
|> will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." I
|> consider most Neo-Nazis and White Supremisists to be Christians because:
|> a) They say they are
|> b) They feel it necessary to justify their actions with the Bible
|>
Where does it say in the bible that Christians are supposed to persecute
Jews? Isn't it love your enemies instead? They may say they are "Christian"
but do their actions speak differently? Do you believe what everyone tells
you? I don't. I came to believe in God by my own investigation and conclusions.
And ultimately by my own choice. Salvation, however, was granted only through
the grace of God.
|> The Bible provides us with no clear definition of what a Christian is. It
|> tells us what a Christian *should* do, but then it goes on to say that as
|> long as you believe, your sins will be forgiven.
To be a Christian is to model oneself after Jesus Christ as implied by the
very name Christian. If you say you believe in your head but do not feel in
your heart, what does that say of your belief?
|> White Supremisists and
|> Neo-Nazis may not be your brand of Christian, but by believing in Christ,
|> they are Christian.
|>
White supremists and Neo-Nazis are NOT any brand of Christian.
"If you hate your whom you can see then how can you love God whom you cannot
see?"
What does this belief entail? Believing in Christ and having your sins
forgiven in His name does NOT give a Christian a free licence to sin. To
repent of a sin is to ask forgiveness of that sin and TRY NOT to do it
again. I am a Christian, but if you lump me in with racists and accuse me
of being such, then are you not pre-judging me? BTW, I am of Chinese racial
background and I know what it is to be part of a visible minority in this
country. I don't think that I would be favourably looked upon by these
White supremist "Christians" as you call them.
Anyone can say what they believe, but if they don't practice what they preach,
then their belief is false. Do you concur?
|> Now, for your original statement:
|> : |> : What bothers me most is why people who have no religious affiliation
|> : |> : continue to persecute Jews? Why this hatred of Jews? The majority of
|> : |> : people who persecute Jews are NOT Christians (I can't speak for all
|> : |> : Christians and there are bound to be a few who are on the anti-Semitism
|> : |> : bandwagon.)
|>
|> You imply here that it is predominately atheists and agnostics who
|> persecute Jews. I am hard pressed to think of even an example of Jewish
|> persecution in the hands of atheists/agnostics.
Nazis and racists in general are the ones that come to my immediate attention.
What I believe is that such people may be using the bible to mask their racial
intolerance and bigotry. They can do as they do and hide behind Christianity
but I tell you that Jesus would have nothing to do with them.
|> About the only one that
|> comes to mind would be in the former Soviet Union, where many religious
|> people suffered some sort of persecution (not to mention many
|> atheist/agnostics who suffered persecution for believing the government
|> sucked).
|>
No arguement there.
|>
|> Rob Lanphier
|> lanph872@uidaho.edu
|>
The only point I'm trying to make is that those who call themselves Christian
may not be Christian. I ask that you draw your own conclusions by what they
do and what they say. If they are not modelled after the example of Jesus
Christ then they are NOT Christian. If they have not repented of their sins
and accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Saviour then they are
NOT Christian. These are the only criteria to being a Christian.
May God be with you,
Malcolm Lee :)
|
4806 | From: rscharfy@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Ryan C Scharfy)
Subject: Re: Clinton's immunization program
Nntp-Posting-Host: magnusug.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University
Lines: 33
In article <C5JoBH.7zt@apollo.hp.com> goykhman@apollo.hp.com (Red Herring) writ
es:
>In article <1993Apr14.122758.11467@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jlinder@magnus.a
cs.ohio-state.edu (Jeffrey S Linder) writes:
>>In article <C5FJsL.6Is@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM> mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR
.C
>>OM (Mark Wilson) writes:
>>>On the news last night Clinton was bashing the republicans for stonewalling
>>>his so called stimulus package.
>>>It seems that one small item within this package was going to pay for free
>>>immunizations for poor kids.
>>
>>Immunizations for children in this country are already free if you care to
>>go have it done. The problem is not the cost, it is the irresponible parents
>>who are to stupid or to lazy to have it done.
>
> In case you haven't noticed, Clintonites are pushing a universal health
> care ACCESS program. "Access" here means that folks who do not give
> a damn about immunizing their children will have health care services
> delivered to their doorsteps.
>
>
Excuse me for sticking my nose in, but any parent/parents who do not allready
immunize their children (especially if it is already free), don't deserve one
frigging dime of tax money for health care for themselves, or public health
care service.
(I know the immunization program and the coming national health care issue are
slightly seperate issues, but anybody who wouldn't help their kids, don't
deserve my tax help).
ryan
|
4807 | From: rda771v@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (A.B. Wuysang)
Subject: Re: Hercules Graphite?
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Lines: 22
In article <C5JBKF.9B8@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:
>In article <1993Apr06.185638.12139@metrics.com> tomh@metrics.com (Tom Haapanen) writes:
>
>>Has anyone used a Hercules Graphite adapter? It looks good on paper, and
>>Steve Gibson gave it a very good review in Infoworld. I'd love to get a
>>real-world impression, though -- how is the speed? Drivers? Support?
>
>The PC World reviewers found out that the Herc people had hard-coded
>Winbench text into the driver. Clever, no? In any case, the Winbench
>results are pretty much inflated.
But the impressive performance of the Graphite was
not its Winmark, it was its Wintach result (esp. the paint
performance). Judging from the Wintach tests, I can hardly
imagine that there is a cheat driver for it.
+---------------------------------------------------+
| Agus Budy Wuysang |
| Digitech Student |
| Monash University (Clayton) |
| Melbourne, Australia |
+---------------------------------------------------+
|
4808 | From: grohol@novavax.UUCP (John Grohol)
Subject: Re^2: ATM
Organization: Nova University, Fort Lauderdale, FL
Lines: 35
rnichols@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (robert.k.nichols) writes:
> 1. TrueType font files are at least 1/3 larger than their Type-1
> equivalents. If you are using a disk compressor, though, be aware
> that TrueType fonts will compress, whereas Type-1 fonts will not
> (they are encrypted).
This isn't entirely true. It is true that TrueType fonts are
larger than their ATM counterparts, but ATM fonts *do* get minimal
compression. Running Stacker 3.0 report generator, I get:
File Type: Compression Ratio:
------------- ------------------
*.TTF (TrueType) 1.4:1.0
*.PFB (ATM) 1.1:1.0
*.PFM (ATM Metric) 11.8:1.0
Although the metric files are small, they compress quite largely.
And, as you can see, even the regular .PFB files have *some* compression.
So, doing the math on one such comparitive font file:
TTF Times = 83260 bytes/1.4 = 59471 bytes (compressed)
PFB Times = 51549 bytes/1.1 = 46862 bytes (Compressed)
You still win out, even if the ATM Times font *isn't* compressed.
Your mileage may vary depending on compression program.
--
"When heroes go down, They go down fast || John M. Grohol, M.S.
So don't expect any time to || Center for Psychological Studies
Equivocate the past." || Nova Univ, Ft. Lauderdale, FL
- suzanne vega || grohol@novavax.nova.edu
|
4809 | From: sys1@exnet.co.uk (Xavier Gallagher)
Subject: Re: Employment (was Re: Why not concentrate on child molesters?
Organization: ExNet Systems Ltd Public Access News, London, UK
Lines: 28
In article <C5HF6r.CG3@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM> mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson) writes:
>In <C5FG7t.6At@exnet.co.uk> sys1@exnet.co.uk (Xavier Gallagher) writes:
>
>|I have to disagree. You do not take your logic far enough.
>
>|True, man did not invent the need for food, shelter, warmth and the ilk,
>|but man did invent the property laws and the laws of trespass.
>
>I guess Xavier has never heard of territoriality in animals. Many animals,
>especially preditors will stake out a territory and chase of any members of
>the same species that tries to invade their territory.
Yes, I have! Wasn't there a case of a single lion ruling all the land
from South Africa up to Egypt across to the congo? If my memory serves
me correctly there was enough game to feed some 100,000 or more lions but he
wouldn't let the other lions hunt as he wanted it all himself.
He died of a heart attack brought on by being overweight.
Good thing too as he had designs on Europe, America (north and south),
and the Falkland Islands.
>Mark.Wilson@AtlantaGA.NCR.com
Xavier.
|
4810 | From: arc@cco.caltech.edu (Aaron Ray Clements)
Subject: Re: a universal RIGHT to bear arms? NOT!
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Lines: 25
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu
rats@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (Morris the Cat) writes:
>|| Wrong again, but if you want proof: turn on your TV and look
>||for a show starring Chuck Connors. It was called, "The Rifleman."
>||Time how fast he can fire that old lever-action rifle.
>|Believe it or not, I remember seeing an advertisement for someone
>|selling one of these; apparently Winchester produced a bunch of
>|these commercially to commemorate the television show. I believe it was
>|being sold as a handgun because of the barrel length and lack of a stock.
>I might be mistaking the above weapon for the gun used by Steve
>McQueen in "Wanted: Dead or Alive." If so, sorry. Did Winchester
>make any commemorative models of the rifle used by Chuck Connors
>in the movie? Chuck Connors was an NRA member before he died recently...
I don't know for sure if Winchester made any commemeratives. If I
recall correctly, the rifle itself was a .44-40 Model 92 with an
oversized loop lever. I don't think Winchester makes this rifle
any more. Rossi make a Model 92 look-alike in .38 Special and
.357 Magnum.
aaron
arc@cco.caltech.edu
|
4811 | From: Clinton-HQ@Campaign92.Org (Clinton/Gore '92)
Subject: CLINTON: President's Radio Address 4.17.93
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
Lines: 178
NNTP-Posting-Host: life.ai.mit.edu
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
(Pittsburgh, Pennslyvania)
______________________________________________________________
For Immediate Release April 17, 1993
RADIO ADDRESS TO THE NATION
BY THE PRESIDENT
Pittsburgh International Airport
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
10:06 A.M. EDT
THE PRESIDENT: Good morning. My voice is coming to
you this morning through the facilities of the oldest radio
station in America, KDKA in Pittsburgh. I'm visiting the city to
meet personally with citizens here to discuss my plans for jobs,
health care and the economy. But I wanted first to do my weekly
broadcast with the American people.
I'm told this station first broadcast in 1920 when
it reported that year's presidential elections. Over the past
seven decades presidents have found ways to keep in touch with
the people, from whistle-stop tours to fire-side chats to the bus
tour that I adopted, along with Vice President Gore, in last
year's campaign.
Every Saturday morning I take this time to talk with
you, my fellow Americans, about the problems on your minds and
what I'm doing to try and solve them. It's my way of reporting
to you and of giving you a way to hold me accountable.
You sent me to Washington to get our government and
economy moving after years of paralysis and policy and a bad
experiment with trickle-down economics. You know how important
it is for us to make bold, comprehensive changes in the way we do
business.
We live in a competitive global economy. Nations
rise and fall on the skills of their workers, the competitiveness
of their companies, the imagination of their industries, and the
cooperative experience and spirit that exists between business,
labor and government. Although many of the economies of the
industrialized world are now suffering from slow growth, they've
made many of the smart investments and the tough choices which
our government has for too long ignored. That's why many of them
have been moving ahead and too many of our people have been
falling behind.
We have an economy today that even when it grows is
not producing new jobs. We've increased the debt of our nation
by four times over the last 12 years, and we don't have much to
show for it. We know that wages of most working people have
stopped rising, that most people are working longer work weeks
and that too many families can no longer afford the escalating
cost of health care.
But we also know that, given the right tools, the
right incentives and the right encouragement, our workers and
businesses can make the kinds of products and profits our economy
needs to expand opportunity and to make our communities better
places to live.
In many critical products today Americans are the
low cost, high quality producers. Our task is to make sure that
we create more of those kinds of jobs.
Just two months ago I gave Congress my plan for
long-term jobs and economic growth. It changes the old
priorities in Washington and puts our emphasis where it needs to
be -- on people's real needs, on increasing investments and jobs
and education, on cutting the federal deficit, on stopping the
waste which pays no dividends, and redirecting our precious
resources toward investment that creates jobs now and lays the
groundwork for robust economic growth in the future.
These new directions passed the Congress in record
time and created a new sense of hope and opportunity in our
country. Then the jobs plan I presented to Congress, which would
create hundreds of thousands of jobs, most of them in the private
sector in 1993 and 1994, passed the House of Representatives. It
now has the support of a majority of the United States Senate.
But it's been held up by a filibuster of a minority in the
Senate, just 43 senators. They blocked a vote that they know
would result in the passage of our bill and the creation of jobs.
The issue isn't politics; the issue is people.
Millions of Americans are waiting for this legislation and
counting on it, counting on us in Washington. But the jobs bill
has been grounded by gridlock.
I know the American people are tired of business as
usual and politics as usual. I know they don't want us to spin
or wheels. They want the recovery to get moving. So I have
taken a first step to break this gridlock and gone the extra
mile. Yesterday I offered to cut the size of this plan by 25
percent -- from $16 billion to $12 billion.
It's not what I'd hoped for. With 16 million
Americans looking for full-time work, I simply can't let the bill
languish when I know that even a compromise bill will mean
hundreds of thousands of jobs for our people. The mandate is to
act to achieve change and move the country forward. By taking
this initiative in the face of an unrelenting Senate talkathon, I
think we can respond to your mandate and achieve a significant
portion of our original goals.
First, we want to keep the programs as much as
possible that are needed to generate jobs and meet human needs,
including highway and road construction, summer jobs for young
people, immunization for children, construction of waste water
sites, and aid to small businesses. We also want to keep funding
for extended unemployment compensation benefits, for people who
have been unemployed for a long time because the economy isn't
creating jobs.
Second, I've recommended that all the other programs
in the bill be cut across-the-board by a little more than 40
percent.
And third, I've recommended a new element in this
program to help us immediately start our attempt to fight against
crime by providing $200 million for cities and towns to rehire
police officers who lost their jobs during the recession and put
them back to work protecting our people. I'm also going to fight
for a tough crime bill because the people of this country need it
and deserve it.
Now, the people who are filibustering this bill --
the Republican senators -- say they won't vote for it because it
increases deficit spending, because there's extra spending this
year that hasn't already been approved. That sounds reasonable,
doesn't it? Here's what they don't say. This program is more
than paid for by budget cuts over my five-year budget, and this
budget is well within the spending limits already approved by the
Congress this year.
It's amazing to me that many of these same senators
who are filibustering the bill voted during the previous
administration for billions of dollars of the same kind of
emergency spending, and much of it was not designed to put the
American people to work.
This is not about deficit spending. We have offered
a plan to cut the deficit. This is about where your priorities
are -- on people or on politics.
Keep in mind that our jobs bill is paid for dollar
for dollar. It is paid for by budget cuts. And it's the
soundest investment we can now make for ourselves and our
children. I urge all Americans to take another look at this jobs
and investment program; to consider again the benefits for all of
us when we've helped make more American partners working to
ensure the future of our nation and the strength of our economy.
You know, if every American who wanted a job had
one, we wouldn't have a lot of the other problems we have in this
country today. This bill is not a miracle, it's a modest first
step to try to set off a job creation explosion in this country
again. But it's a step we ought to take. And it is fully paid
for over the life of our budget.
Tell your lawmakers what you think. Tell them how
important the bill is. If it passes, we'll all be winners.
Good morning, and thank you for listening.
END 10:11 A.M. EDT
|
4812 | From: goyal@utdallas.edu (MOHIT K GOYAL)
Subject: Re: 17" Monitors
Nntp-Posting-Host: csclass.utdallas.edu
Organization: Univ. of Texas at Dallas
Lines: 10
>the Mitsubishi. I also reviewed a new Nanao, the F550iW, which has just
>been released. Last year for the May '92 issue of Windows, I reviewed
Do you have the specs for this monitor? What have they changed from the
F550i?
Do you know if their is going to be a new T560i soon? (a T560iW?)
Thanks.
|
4813 | From: steve.dunham@uuserv.cc.utah.edu (STEVE LEE DUNHAM)
Subject: Re: Car buying story, was: Christ, another dealer service scam...
Lines: 18
Organization: The University of Utah
Distribution: usa
>While not exactly a service incident, I had a similar experience recently
>when I bought a new truck.
>
>I had picked out the vehicle I wanted and after a little haggling we
>agreed on a price. I wrote them a check for the down payment plus tax
>and license and told them I'd be back that evening to pick up the truck.
>When I returned, I had to wait about an hour before the finance guy could
>get to me. When I finally got in there, everything went smoothly until he
>started adding up the numbers. He then discovered that they had
>miscalculated the tax & license by about $150.
This seems to be a popular scam with dealers. Last month my brother bought
a new Audi 90 series quatro from a local dealer. They came back with the
final price, tax and all, and he added it up for himself. There happened to
be an extra $300 tagged on under the tax part. He pointed out their error
and asked them to re-think their addition. They came back with the right
price the next time.
|
4814 | From: cfaks@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Alice Sanders)
Subject: Frozen shoulder and lawn mowing
Organization: Eastern Illinois University
Lines: 12
Ihave had a frozen shoulder for over a year or about a year. It is still
partially frozen, and I am still in physical therapy every week. But the
pain has subsided almost completely. UNTIL last week when I mowed the
lawn for twenty minutes each, two days in a row. I have a push type power
mower. The pain started back up a little bit for the first time in quite
a while, and I used ice and medicine again. Can anybody explain why this
particular activity, which does not seem to stress me very much generally,
should cause this shoulder problem?
Thanks.
Alice
|
4815 | From: leech@cs.unc.edu (Jon Leech)
Subject: Space FAQ 07/15 - Astronomical Mnemonics
Supersedes: <mnemonics_730956500@cs.unc.edu>
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Lines: 95
Distribution: world
Expires: 6 May 1993 19:57:55 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: mahler.cs.unc.edu
Keywords: Frequently Asked Questions
Archive-name: space/mnemonics
Last-modified: $Date: 93/04/01 14:39:14 $
ASTRONOMICAL MNEMONICS (This is the last FAQ section posted to sci.astro)
Gathered from various flurries of mnemonic postings on sci.astro.
Spectral classification sequence: O B A F G K M R N S
Oh Be A Fine Girl Kiss Me Right Now, Sweetheart. (a classic)
O'Dell's Big Astronomical Fiasco Gonna Kill Me Right Now Surely
Obese Balding Astronomy Found Guilty; Killed Many Reluctant
Nonscience Students.
Octopus Brains, A Favorite Gastronomical Kitchen Menu,
Requires No Sauce
Odd Ball Astronomers Find Generally Kooky Mnemonics
Really Nifty Stuff
Oh Big And Ferocious Gorilla, Kill My Roomate Next Saturday
Oh Boy, A Flash! Godzilla Kills Mothra! Really Not Surprising!
Oh Boy, An F Grade Kills Me
On Bad Afternoons Fermented Grapes Keep Mrs. Richard Nixon Smiling
On, Backward Astronomer, Forget Geocentricity; Kepler's Motions
Reveal Nature's Simplicity
Our Bad Astronomy Faculty Gets Killed Monday
Oven Baked Ants, Fried Gently, Kept Moist, Retain Natural Succulence
Overseas Broadcast: A Flash! Godzilla kills Mothra!
(Rodan Named Successor)
Overweight Boys and Fat Girls Keep Munching
Only Bored Astronomers Find Gratification Knowing Mnemonics
Oh Bloody Astronomy! F Grades Kill Me
Order of the planets:
Sun
Mercury
Venus
Earth (Terra)
Mars
(Asteroids)
Jupiter
Saturn
Uranus
Neptune
Pluto
My Very Earnest Mother Just Served Us Nine Pizzas
Mother Very Thoughtfully Made A Jelly Sandwich Under No Protest
My Very Erotic Mate Joyfully Satisfies Unusual Needs Passionately
Men Very Easily Make Jugs Serve Useful Nocturnal Purposes
Man Very Early Made A Jug Serve Useful Noble Purposes
My Very Educated Mother Just Showed Us Nine Planets
My Very Eager Mother Just Showed Us Nine Planets
My Very Exhausted Mother hAs Just Swept Up a Planetary Nebula
Most Voters Earn Money Just Showing Up Near Polls
My Very Educated Mother Just Served Us Nine Pizza-pies
Many Viscious Elephants Made John, Suzy and Uncle Need Protection
Solar Mass Very Easily Makes All Jupiter's Satellites Undergo
Numerous Perturbations.
Mein Vater erklaert mir jeden Sonntag unsere niedlichen Planeten
(My Father explains to me every Sunday our nine planets)
Man verachte einen Menschen in seinem Unglueck nie -- Punkt
(Never scorn/despise a person in his misfortune/bad luck/misery
-- period!)
Colors of the spectrum: Red Orange Yellow Green Blue Indigo Violet
ROY G. BIV (pronounce as a man's name)
Richard Of York Gave Battle In Vain
Read Out Your Good Book In Verse
Galilean Satellite of Jupiter: Io Europa Ganymede Callisto
I Expect God Cries
I Eat Green Cheese
I Embarrass Good Christians
Ich erschrecke all guten Christen
(I scare all good Christians)
Saturnian Satellites
MET DR THIP
Miriam's Enchiladas Taste Divine Recently. Tell Her I'm Proud.
(Mimas, Enceladus, Tethys, Dione, Rhea, Titan, Hyperion,
Iapetus, Phoebe)
Uranian Satellites:
MAUTO
Mispronunciations Afflict Uranus Too Often
My Angel Uriel Takes Opium
(Miranda, Ariel, Umbriel, Titania, Oberon)
NOTE: the remaining FAQ sections do not appear in sci.astro, as they cover
material of relevance only to sci.space.
NEXT: FAQ #8/15 - Contacting NASA, ESA, and other space agencies/companies
|
4816 | From: af664@yfn.ysu.edu (Frank DeCenso, Jr.)
Subject: BIBLICAL CONTRADICTIONS ANSWERED (Judas)
Organization: Youngstown State/Youngstown Free-Net
Lines: 591
NNTP-Posting-Host: yfn.ysu.edu
I posted this several days ago for Dave Butler. He may have missed it - my
Usenet board has changed a little. Just in case he missed it, here it is again.
Dave Butler writes...
From: daveb@pogo.wv.tek.com (Dave Butler)
>Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: NEW BIBLICAL CONTRADICTIONS [Fallaciously] ANSWERED (Judas)
Date: Thu Apr 1 20:52:11 1993
"I can basically restrict this post to showing the type of evidence Mr DeCenso
has presented, and answering his two questions (and a couple of his spurious
insults and false claims)."
MY REPLY...
O.K.
DB...
[By the way Mr DeCenso, you really should have looked in the index of your
Bauer-Arndt-Gingrich Greek lexicon. You would have found that the word in
Acts for "lot" is "kleros," not "CHORION" as stated by Mr Archer, and nowhere
in the very large discussion of kleros in done the to "Theological Dictionary
of the New Testament" by Bromley, is the meaning "burial plot" discussed. It
discusses the forms of "kleros" (eg: kleros, kleroo, etc), and the various
meanings of "kleros" (eg: "plot of land," and "inheritance"), but mentions
nothing about CHORION or "burial plot." (Why does this not surprise me?) Thus
it would seem to be a very good thing you dumped Archer as a reference.]
DB later corrected himself...
_____________________________________________________________________
From: daveb@pogo.wv.tek.com (Dave Butler)
>Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: NEW BIBLICAL CONTRADICTIONS [Fallaciously] ANSWERED (Judas)
Date: Fri Apr 2 02:32:11 1993
I owe the group an apology. It is my habit to check my articles before and
after their submission for errors. In my last article I stated:
> (By the way Mr DeCenso, you really should have looked in the index of your
> Bauer-Arndt-Gingrich Greek lexicon. You would have found that the word in
> Acts for "lot" is "kleros," not "CHORION" as stated by Mr Archer, and nowhere
> in the very large discussion of kleros in done the to "Theological Dictionary
> of the New Testament" by Bromley, is the meaning "burial plot" discussed. It
> discusses the forms of "kleros" (eg: kleros, kleroo, etc), and the various
> meanings of "kleros" (eg: "plot of land," and "inheritance"), but mentions
> nothing about CHORION or "burial plot." (Why does this not surprise me?) Thus
> it would seem to be a very good thing you dumped Archer as a reference).
I was wrong. I admit that I do not have a handle on Greek grammar, and thus
confused "kleros", the second to last word in Acts 1:17 as being the plot of
land discussed. In actuality it is "chorion", which is the last word Acts
1:18. Unfortunately my Greek dictionary does not discuss "chorion" so I
cannot report as to the nuances of the word.
I don't know if someone else would have caught this, though I am sure that
someone would be able to do so, but I have an aversion to disseminating
mistakes, especially when someone else might use that mistake to prove a point"
_____________________________________________________________________
MY REPLY...
Vary noble of you Dave. I didn't want to have to go to x number of sources to
show you wrong. (Although I am researching CHORION a little).
DB...
"Of course the only other reference Mr DeCenso has given is Bullinger. And
Bullinger uses such ridiculous exegisis that when I accused Mr DeCenso of
actually believing Bullinger, he replied that I misquoted him:
>> "And you maintain that you find such exegesis convincing? Oh dear."
>
> My Reply...
> Your misquotes of me are astounding, Dave. Read the beginning of this part
of > my response to see what I REALLY said in my posting of this article.
[Actually Mr DeCenso, you said that there was "benefit" to our argument, in
that it caused to to rediscover Bullinger's exegisis. I did not realize
that you would find such garbage beneficial, unless you were convinced by
it]."
MY REPLY...
Thank you for correcting your restating of my points.
DB...
"and Mr DeCenso also replied:
> Dave, these are not necessarily my views; they are Bullinger's. WE will
> discuss the land issue in later posts, I'm sure. I'm only responding to
>this one you have directed re: Bullinger's views because it's enjoyable.
Thus I apologize for thinking that even Mr DeCenso could find such "drek"
convincing....he should specify which parts of Bullinger he finds convincing
and quit hiding behind a disingenuous mask of "This is what Bullinger
believed, not necessarily what I believe." So which is it Mr DeCenso? Do you
find the exegisis convincing or not?)"
MY REPLY...
One of my purposes in debating these alleged contradictions with you and
others is to diseminate many different views of possible reconciliations
raised by various Bible scholars and students alike. When I present MY VIEWS,
I will clearly distinguish them from now on.
DB...
"Of course without Archer and Bullinger we find that Mr DeCenso has presented
no Greek exegisis at all, and Mr DeCenso has made a big thing about my not
referring back to the actual Greek. Thus we find this demand on his part for
quality Greek exegisis to be a hypocritical requirement."
MY REPLY...
Good point. But in your declaring that these passages are contradictory, you
have produced only superficial reasonings and observations. Nor have you dug
deeper. I'm glad you have begun in this post. I will begin Greek studies on
these passages in more depth than I thought necessary, as well.
DB...
"It would be appropriate to look at what Mr DeCenso has actually USED as
evidence. Now we know what he claims for a standard, as he has stated it
often enough:
> (a) the text itself
> (b) parallel passages
> (c) other pertinent Scriptures
> (d) historical context
> (e) historical content
> (f) other pertinent historical info
> (g) cultural context
> (h) cultural content
> (i) other pertinent cultural info
> (j) grammatical construction
> (k) Hebrew and Greek word studies
> (l) etc.
But are these actual standards he has used, or simply empty hyperbole. Let's
see, he has used (a), and since he is trying to reconcile it to other
passages, we see that he has also used (b). On the other hand he has
presented no use of:
(d) historical context or
(e) historical content or
(f) other pertinent historical info or
(g) cultural context or
(h) cultural content or
(i) other pertinent cultural info or
(j) grammatical construction or even
(k) Hebrew and Greek word studies [remember, Archer and Bullinger don't count]
Thus we find his vaunted criteria for exegisis is just empty mouthings."
MY REPLY...
Question: Do you find such criteria important? If so, do you plan on starting
to use them to the best of your ability, or will you continue to present
shallow observations (I don't mean this in a bad way).
At this point in our _debates_, I have not found it necessary to present a
total exegetical analysis of these passages, since we seem to keep beating
around the bush and not getting into the core of the verses. I do not believe
it necessary to use many of the above criteria to refute your arguments re:
Judas in Acts and Matthew, but I will do my best from this point on to use
several of the above criteria, since you desire me to. I hope you will also.
It will greatly enhance our study of these passages.
DB...
"The only thing he has actually used, beyond the passage itself, is any other
passage. Thus Mr DeCenso should be honest and note that most of his list is
red herring and his only real criteria seems to be:
> (a) the text itself
> (b) parallel passages
MY REPLY...
The reason is simple...you are mistating the passages. You claim that the
PASSAGES contradict one another; I do not see the PASSAGES contradicting one
another.
(1) They may very well be complimentary, as many scholarly sources mention;
(2) Matthew may not be presenting Judas' death, as you claim. But we'll look
at your defense of this later.
Also, the "reward of iniquity" in the Acts PASSAGE may not be the 30 pieces of
silver in Matthew's PASSAGES. (Although you have a valiant attempt later at
stating why you believe it is).
At this beginning stages in our debates, we are laying some Scriptural
groundwork, which will be expanded upon through deeper exegesis.
DB...
"Of course the only reason I can see to so drastically reinterpret a passage
as he has done with Judas' death, is to make it agree with another passage so
that both could be considered correct."
MY REPLY...
One of the reasons I have given a different exegetical view of the passages is
that you seem to think the majority of scholarship is wrong in concluding these
passages are complimentary. However, I see no problem in Tony Rose's
explanation of Judas' death...
_____________________________________________________________________
HOW WOULD YOU EXPLAIN THE INACCURACY BETWEEN JUDAS HANGING
HIMSELF IN MATTHEW 27:5 AND "FALLING HEADLONG HE BURST OPEN"
=============================================================
This question of the manner in which Judas died is one with which we are
constantly confronted in our travels. Many people point to the apparent
discrepancy in the two accounts as an obvious, irreconcilable error.
Some have gone so far as to say that the idea of an inerrant Bible is
destroyed by these contradictory accounts. However, this is not the case at
all.
Matthew relates that Judas hanged himself, while Peter tells us he fell and
was crushed by the impact. The two statements are indeed different, but do
they necessarily contradict each other?
Matthew does not say that Judas did not fall; neither does Peter say that
Judas did not hang himself. This is not a matter of one person calling
something black and the other person calling it white. Both accounts can be
true and supplementary.
A possible reconstruction would be this: Judas hanged himself on a tree on the
edge of a precipice that overlooked the valley of Hinnom. After he hung there
for some time, the limb of the tree snapped or the rope gave way and Judas
fell down the ledge, mangling his body in the process.
The fall could have been before *or* after death as either would fit this
explanation. This possibility is entirely natural when the terrain of the
valley of Hinnom is examined. From the bottom of the valley, you can see
rocky terraces 25 to 40 feet in height and almost perpendicular.
There are still trees around the ledges and a rocky pavement at the bottom.
Therefore, it is easy to conclude that Judas struck one of the jagged rocks on
this way down, tearing his body open. It is important to remember that we are
not told how long Judas remained hanging from the tree or how advanced
was the decomposition of his body before his fall.
Louis Gaussen relates a story of a man who was determined to kill himself.
This individual placed himself on the sill of a high window and pointed a
pistol at his head. He then pulled the trigger and leaped from the window at
the same time.
On the other hand, a person could say that this man took his life by shooting
himself, while another could rightly contend he committed suicide by jumping
form the tall building. In this case, both are true, as both are true in the
case of Matthew's and Peter's accounts of the death of Judas. It is merely a
situation of different perspectives of the same event.
_____________________________________________________________________
Your only reason for rejecting this is, I believe, your attempt to discredit
inerrancy. You haven't related how this is IMPOSSIBLE or highly unlikely.
Here's what you said in an earlier post...
_____________________________________________________________________
DB [quoting Tony Rose]...
> There are still trees around the ledges and a rocky pavement at the bottom.
> Therefore, it is easy to conclude that Judas struck one of the jagged rocks
> on this way down, tearing his body open. It is important to remember that we
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> are not told how long Judas remained hanging from the tree or how advanced
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> was the decomposition of his body before his fall.
"The added text in this version is so heavy that, assuming you are truly so
opposed to such tactics, you should find it not credible. But you seem to
find Tony Rose's eisegesis satisfactory, while clearly rejecting David
Joslin's."
_____________________________________________________________________
Here, you discredit Tony's explanation based on what you deem too "heavy" for
the passages. But you haven't addressed why you feel that way. You can say
it's a vain attempt to reconcile the contradiction, but that doesn't tell me it
didn't happen, nor have you shown why you reject that possibility.
Questions: Is Matthew lying or is Luke lying? Or are they both lying? Or
are either or both of them misinformed? Why do you think there is such an
alleged contradiction? I do not think you have ever told us what you believe
in this respect.
DB...
"At present though, Mr DeCenso only asks two questions of me:
> (1) You claim Acts and Matthew contradict one another in representing Judas'
> death. I ask you again to provide evidence that Matthew stated Judas
> died in the hanging.
> (2) You claim that the 30 pieces of silver in Matthew that Judas threw down
> in the temple and the chief priests used, is the "reward of iniquity"
> in Acts that pictures Judas in some way purchasing a field with;
> therefore there is a contradiction. Prove that the 30 pieces of silver
> and the "reward of iniquity" are one and the same.
Actually I find question (1) to be a rather stupid request, but I will answer
it because he now restricts himself to two points. First I would point out
that hanging is a very efficient manner for ending a life. In fact it is a
bit of a fluke when someone survives hanging (except in fantasy cowboy
movies), and even then it usually referred to as an attempted hanging."
MY REPLY...
I work at an agency that investigates child abuse and neglect. Today, I got a
call re: a child that attempted suicide by hanging himself because his mother
is on crack. He failed in his attempt and is in a child's psych ward at a
local hospital. Hanging attempts are not always successful.
To assume that because most hangings are successful, this one was also is
"begging the question", if I may quote you.
[Last night, listening to _The Bible Answer Man_ broadcast, The Christian
Research Institute's show, one of the scholars on there used several of these
terms that you use. I am not all that familiar with them. The man on the BAM
show teaches Comparative Religion and Logic. It was interesting]
DB...
"This is so prevalent that, so that to say a man hung himself with no other
qualifiers is synonymous with stating that he killed himself."
MY REPLY...
Qualifiers are important at times, as we'll see in an OT passage I'll mention
below.
Does hanging ALWAYS have this outcome? Did Matthew, who is the only source we
have re: Judas hanging himself, state that Judas died as a result? To say it's
synonymous means it has the same meaning as. A boy (age 14) hung himself. But
he lived. This is only one of probably thousands of documented cases we can
discover.
DB...
"Now I am not alone in this thought; in fact, since Mr DeCenso so respects
Christian scholarly (including Greek scholars) opinion, I did some research."
MY REPLY...
Thank you, Dave.
DB...
"Interestingly, not one of the Christian references I read, interpreted the
hanging as being anything but a fatal suicide. ^^^^^^^^^^^
MY REPLY...
[^^^ above, mine]
So it's OK to use Christian sources to back your points? What about Tony's
position. Do you value it or even consider it as a valid possibility?
Also, is it possible that the sources you read may be wrong, or lying, or
deceived in other parts of their books? If so, should we do, as we have done
with Archer, toss them to the side and not value anything they say, including
their "interpretation" of the hanging of Judas? I am sure _you_ would find
some errors and maybe even some deception in those sources.
You also noted they "interpreted" the hanging as meaning he died. Although
that is very possibly true, do you find that in the text itself? Remember,
that's the first criteria we must examine.
DB...
"This included:
"The Biblical Knowledge Commentary" by Woodward and Zuck"
MY REPLY...
Which I own. It's a good source of commentary info. But not inerrant.
DB...
"The Interpreters on Volume Commentary on the Bible" by Laydon
"The one volume Bible Commentary" by J R Dunelow
"Word meanings of the Testament" Ralph Earl
"The Abingdon Bible Commentary" published by Abingdon
"Harpers Bible Commentary" by William Neal
(Actually I could have presented many more as well)
MY REPLY...
I appreciate your doing this research, Dave. Maybe we are getting somewhere
in how we both should approach these alleged contradictions - more in depth
study.
DB...
"In each case, these references specifically describe that the interpretation
of Matt 27:5 as successful, suicide and thus I can only conclude that the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Greek word "apagchw"(ie: hang oneself) is translated as a successful hanging."
MY REPLY...
[^^^ above, mine]
No you can't only conclude this, although, as Tony says, this was a highly
probable outcome. But Matthew does not state death as being a result.
The Greek word is APAGCHO. Matthew 27:5 is it's only occurrence in the New
Testament.
In the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the OT used at the time of Jesus),
it's only used in 2 Samuel 17:23 : "Now when Ahithophel saw that his advice was
not followed, he saddled a donkey, and arose and went home to his house, to his
city. Then he put his household in order, and hanged himself, and died; and he
was buried in his father's tomb." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Notice that not only is it stated that Ahithophel "hanged himself" [Gr. Sept.,
APAGCHO], but it explicitly adds, "and died". Here we have no doubt of the
result.
In Matthew, we are not explicitly told Judas died.
Also, there is nothing in the Greek to suggest success or failure. It simply
means "hang oneself".
DB...
"But Mr DeCenso, you are more than welcome to disagree and show more reputable
^^^^^^^^^
Christian scholars that insist that the hanging was not successful."
MY REPLY...
[^^^above, mine]
"Reputable"? You mean ones that have never erred?
As far as insisting that the hanging was unsuccessful, that can't be done,
even by me. ^^^^^^^^^
As I said in an earlier post...
_____________________________________________________________________
Although I still agree with Tony's exegesis as being the most probable
explanation regarding Judas' death (taking into account several criteria),
I've recently noticed some new things in Matthew.
MAT 27:5-8 Then he threw down the pieces of silver in the temple and departed,
and went and hanged himself. But the chief priests took the silver pieces and
said, "It is not lawful to put them into the treasury, because they are the
price of blood." And they consulted together and bought with them the potter's
field, to bury strangers in. Therefore that field has been called the Field of
Blood to this day.
First of all, notice that the text does not say that Judas died as a result of
hanging. All it says is that he "went and hanged himself." Luke however, in
Acts, tells us that "and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all
his entrails gushed out." This is a pretty clear indication (along with the
other details given in Acts - Peter's speech, the need to pick a new apostle,
etc.) that at least after Judas' fall, he was dead. So the whole concept that
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Matthew and Luke both recount Judas' death is highly probable, but not clear
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
cut.
^^^
_____________________________________________________________________
I also wrote...
_____________________________________________________________________
MY REPLY...
Here we have a stickler, Dave, that I have to say I just recently noticed.
Let's look at the passage in Matthew:
MAT 27:4 saying, "I have sinned by betraying innocent blood." And they said,
"What is that to us? You see to it!"
MAT 27:5 Then he threw down the pieces of silver in the temple and departed,
and went and hanged himself.
MAT 27:6 But the chief priests took the silver pieces and said, "It is not
lawful to put them into the treasury, because they are the price of blood."
MAT 27:7 And they consulted together and bought with them the potter's field,
to bury strangers in.
MAT 27:8 Therefore that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day.
Notice verse 5..."Then he...went and hanged himself."
Matthew does not say Judas died, does it? Should we assume he died as a
result of the hanging? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What does Acts say?
ACT 1:18 (Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and
falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out.
ACT 1:20 "For it is written in the book of Psalms: 'Let his dwelling place be
desolate, And let no one live in it'; and, 'Let another take his office.'
Here we may have a graphic explanation of Judas' death....So, my line of
reasoning to dispel your contradiction myth re:the "two" accounts of Judas'
death is this...Matthew doesn't necessarily explain how Judas died; he does
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
say Judas "hanged himself", but he didn't specifically say Judas died in the
hanging incident. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
However, Acts seems to show us his graphic demise. Therefore, there is no
contradiction between Matthew and Acts re: Judas' `death'.
.......
MY REPLY...
...we do know from Matthew that he did hang himself and Acts probably records
his death. Although it's possible and plausible that he fell from the hanging
and hit some rocks, thereby bursting open, I can no longer assume that to be
the case. Therefore, no contradiction. Matthew did not say Judas died as a
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
result of the hanging, did he? Most scholars believe he probably did, but...?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
______________________________________________________________________
I quoted all that to show that I highly regard the scholars' explanations, but
in looking at the texts initially, we can't assume Judas died. It is, however,
highly probable. ^^^^^^
DB...
"By the way, while all agree that Judas died from the hanging, the books had
different ways of dealing with the contradiction we are discussing. One
simply ignored it entirely and simply referred back to Matthew's version as
the correct version in both Matt and Acts. "The Biblical Knowledge Commentary"
suggested the hypotheses that Judas hung and then when he rotted, his belly
exploded (which doesn't explain his headlong fall), or that his branch or rope
broke, and he fell to his death and his gut gushed out (which doesn't explain
how a hanging man, would fall headlong rather than feet first)."
MY REPLY...
The outcome of any fall is dependent upon many factors...how high the person
was suspended before the fall, any obstructions such as tree branches that may
have deviated the fall, how steep an incline of rocky surfaces the victim fell
upon, thus possibly rolling or bouncing of several rocks, etc. In a
superficial examination of the Acts passage and the Matthew passage, we are not
given a lot of info on the geographical specifics, but Tony in the above quoted
post gave us some...
_____________________________________________________________________
A possible reconstruction would be this: Judas hanged himself on a tree on the
edge of a precipice that overlooked the valley of Hinnom. After he hung there
for some time, the limb of the tree snapped or the rope gave way and Judas
fell down the ledge, mangling his body in the process.
The fall could have been before *or* after death as either would fit this
explanation. This possibility is entirely natural when the terrain of the
valley of Hinnom is examined. From the bottom of the valley, you can see
rocky terraces 25 to 40 feet in height and almost perpendicular.
There are still trees around the ledges and a rocky pavement at the bottom.
Therefore, it is easy to conclude that Judas struck one of the jagged rocks on
this way down, tearing his body open.
_____________________________________________________________________
DB...
Now truthfully, I do not see what is comforting about Matthew confusing the
source of the Potter's field prophesy, but on the other hand the author is
correct: Matthew does make that confusion. Of course a Biblical inerrantist
who claim that every word of the Bible is guaranteed true by God, will have to
thereby add one more contradiction to the death of Judas (ie: where the
prophesy of the Potter's field came from)."
MY REPLY...
Please, when we are done with this study on his death, remind me to discuss
this with you.
DB...
As to your second question Mr DeCenso, you ask how we could be sure that the
money with which Judas purchased the land, was indeed for the betrayal, rather
than some other source. I would point out that in Acts, where it specifically
mention "the reward of iniquity" [Acts 1:18], it also specifically mentions
what act of iniquity they were talking about (ie: Acts 1:16 "...concerning
Judas who was guide to those who arrested Jesus."). Now I would point out
that when the Bible describes an act of "iniquity," and then immediately
discusses "*the* reward of iniquity," it would be rather inane to suggest that
it was an action of iniquity other than the one discussed."
MY REPLY...
Dave, we are getting somewhere, aren't we!
ACT 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples
(altogether the number of names was about a hundred and twenty), and said,
ACT 1:16 "Men and brethren, this Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy
Spirit spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide
to those who arrested Jesus;
ACT 1:17 "for he was numbered with us and obtained a part in this ministry."
ACT 1:18 (Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and
falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out.
ACT 1:19 And it became known to all those dwelling in Jerusalem; so that field
is called in their own language, Akel Dama, that is, Field of Blood.)
ACT 1:20 "For it is written in the book of Psalms: 'Let his dwelling place be
desolate, And let no one live in it'; and, 'Let another take his office.'
Notice that in verse 16, the word "iniquity" is not used. Rather, it states
that Judas "became a guide to those who arrested Jesus".
But the writer DID NOT stop there...vs. 17, "for he was numbered with us and
obtained a part in this ministry." What part did Judas play in their ministry?
^^^^^^
JOH 12:6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor, but because he was a
thief, and had the money box; and he used to take what was put in it.
JOH 13:29 For some thought, because Judas had the money box, that Jesus had
said to him, "Buy those things we need for the feast," or that he should give
something to the poor.
So, now we know what part Judas played - he was a treasurer, per se.
Right after Peter stated that Judas played a part in this ministry (treasurer,
according to John), THEN Luke adds the parenthetical explanation of "wages of
iniquity" - money that should have been put into the ministry, but was stolen
by Judas to purchase a field. I believe this is a better exegetical
explanation of what the "wages of iniquity" are. What do you think, Dave?
DB...
"Now since I have given you clear answers (and even references), perhaps you
could unequivocally state what type of inerrantist you are (instead of asking
me what type I think you are, as you did to Mr Joslin)."
MY REPLY...
I will gladly admit that I am a Complete Inerrantist, although I do not have
that big a problem with the Limited Inerrancy view.
Frank
--
"If one wished to contend with Him, he could not answer Him one time out
of a thousand." JOB 9:3
|
4817 | From: im14u2c@camelot.bradley.edu (Joe Zbiciak)
Subject: Re: Booting from B drive
Nntp-Posting-Host: camelot.bradley.edu
Organization: Happy Campers USA
Lines: 25
In <C5nvvx.ns@mts.mivj.ca.us> rpao@mts.mivj.ca.us (Roger C. Pao) writes:
[much discussion about switching 5.25" and 3.5" drives removed]
Another (albeit strange) option is using a program like 800 II
(available via anonymous FTP at many major sites), or FDFORMAT
(also available via anonymous FTP), that allows you to format
5.25HD disks to 1.44Meg, or 3.5"HD disks to 1.2Meg (along with
many MANY other formats!) so you can DISKCOPY (yes, the broken
MeSsy-DOS DISKCOPY!) the 5.25" disks onto 3.5" disks or vice
versa... I use this techniques with "NON-DOS" self-booting
game disks on my old Tandy 1000, and it works... Another program
named Teledisk (shareware--available on many major BBS's) will
also make the weird format disks, provided you have 800 II
or FDFormat installed.... Some disks that won't DISKCOPY
properly can be readily Teledisk'd into the proper format...
At least this is a software solution for a hardware/BIOS
deficiency, eh?
--
Joseph Zbiciak im14u2c@camelot.bradley.edu
[====Disclaimer--If you believe any of this, check your head!====]
------------------------------------------------------------------
Nuke the Whales!
|
4818 | From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: Aargh! Great Hockey Coverage!! (Devils)
Nntp-Posting-Host: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: PhDs In The Hall
Lines: 37
Robbie Po <RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) says:
>>>
>>>I mean that the original poster was looking for a Devils victory
>>>on the tape delay, and it didn't happen in game 1.
>>
>>I was the original poster, and it was just a complaint about the
>>coverage (meaningless Yankee game before playoff Devils game).
>
>Oh! I apologize then...I misinterpreted you!
No problem, no offence taken ...
>Of all the teams in the Patrick, I least dislike the Devils.
It is sad, just as a lover of the sport, that this team can be in
the metro New York area for over a decade and still exist as just
a non-entity ...
>How is ESPN's coverage anyways??? I think it starts tonight.
We're getting the Sabres-Bruins as the replacement game (and probably
so are you) while the Devils-Penguins game is played on SCNY and the
Islanders-Caps are the overflow game on the SCA (SCNY Plus). If the
Sabres-Bruins ends early then we'll go to the Devils-Penguins game
(assuming that ESPN follows their previous patterns; we got the last
minute of the Islanders-Rangers and all of the overtime two weeks
ago). ESPN's coverage started last night, by accident, but as one
or more other writers have pointed out, they could've gone to wild
hog wrestling for the evening instead ...
gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@columbia.EDU GO Winnipeg Jets GO!!!
> gld@cunixc.BITNET Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley
|
4819 | From: bill@scorch.apana.org.au (Bill Dowding)
Subject: Re: Krillean Photography
Organization: Craggenmoore public Unix system , Newcastle , Oz
Lines: 15
todamhyp@charles.unlv.edu (Brian M. Huey) writes:
>I think that's the correct spelling..
> I am looking for any information/supplies that will allow
>do-it-yourselfers to take Krillean Pictures. I'm thinking
>that education suppliers for schools might have a appartus for
>sale, but I don't know any of the companies. Any info is greatly
>appreciated.
Krillean photography involves taking pictures of minute decapods resident in
the seas surrounding the antarctic. Or pictures taken by them, perhaps.
Bill from oz
|
4820 | From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Subject: Re: Fungus "epidemic" in CA?
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Distribution: na
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science
Lines: 19
>In article steward@cup.portal.com (John Joseph Deltuvia) writes:
>
>>There was a story a few weeks ago on a network news show about some sort
>>of fungus which supposedly attacks the bone structure and is somewhat
>>widespread in California. Anybody hear anything about this one?
>
The only fungus I know of from California is Coccidiomycosis. I
hadn't heard that it attacked bone. It attacks lung and if you
are especially unlucky, the central nervous system. Nothing new
about it. It's been around for years. THey call it "valley
fever", since it is found in the inland valleys, not on the coast.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
4821 | From: tnyurkiw@descartes.uwaterloo.ca (TN)
Subject: definition of 2nd
Organization: University of Waterloo
Lines: 9
The debate over the Second Amendment rages on.
Arguments continue over what a "well-regulated militia"
is and what TRKBA means in practical terms. However, the
ONLY authority in this area, is a binding court decision
on the matter. Even a decision in this area is subject to
an overturning by a higher court. Is there anyone who
has the facts of a legal precedent, preferably a Supreme
Court decision on the specific meaning of the 2nd Amendment?
|
4822 | From: ab245@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Sam Latonia)
Subject: Re: HELP! TONIGHT! Determine this 387??-25MHz chip!
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 5
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu
Did it ever accrue to you to just call INTEL'S 800 number and ask?
--
Gosh..I think I just installed a virus..It was called MS DOS6...
Don't copy that floppy..BURN IT...I just love Windows...CRASH...
|
4823 | From: gaf5@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Gail A. Fullman)
Subject: Re: FLORIDA SUCKS!
Organization: Lehigh University
Lines: 12
In article <1993Apr13.232537.20672@cabell.vcu.edu>, csc2imd@cabell.vcu.edu (Ian
M. Derby) writes:
>
>This talk about the Phillies winning the NL East is scary. VERY
>scary! Don't get me wrong, Im a Phillies fan but as late as last
>year they looked helpless. The funny thing was they did have a lot
>of injuries in '92 spring training that basically killed their
>chances. Of course, don't forget the Dykstra wrist injury in the
>first or second game?
>
First game, first at bat.
--
|
4824 | From: bagels@gotham.East.Sun.COM (Alex Beigelman - NYC SE)
Subject: NCR 1204 external floppy drive
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Lines: 12
Distribution: world
Reply-To: bagels@gotham.East.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: lox.east.sun.com
Keywords: NCR 1204 external floppy disk-drive
Hi,
I just inherited an NCR 1204 external floppy. This thing has every port known to man on the back.
The question is: Does anyone know how to connect this thing to a PC. What hardware is needed?
Software?
TIA,
Alex
P.S. please respond directly. I am not on this alias.
|
4825 | From: kozloce@wkuvx1.bitnet
Subject: Re: Tie Breaker....(Isles and Devils)DIR
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY
Lines: 25
In article <1993Apr18.222115.6525@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca>, maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
> In <lrw509f@rpi.edu> wangr@vccsouth22.its.rpi.edu ( Rex Wang ) writes:
>
>>I might not be great in Math, but tell me how can two teams ahve the same points
>>with different record??? Man...retard!!!!!! Can't believe people actually put
>>win as first in a tie breaker......
>
> Well I don't see any smileys here. I am trying to figure out if the poster
> is a dog or a wordprocessor. Couldn't be neither. Both are smarter than
> this.
>
> "I might not be great in Math"
>
>
> --
>
> cordially, as always, maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
> "So many morons...
> rm ...and so little time."
Roger? Lecture someone on not using smileys? What sweet hipocracy...
KOZ
LETS GO CAPS!!
|
4826 | From: ronaldw@sco.COM (Ronald A. Wong)
Subject: Re: Powerbook & Duo Batteries
Article-I.D.: ringo.ronaldw-050493173709
Distribution: na
Organization: SCO Developer Relations
Lines: 32
In article <C4vr7z.EB0@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>,
kssimon@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (kenneth steven simon) wrote:
>
> hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Brian V. Hughes) writes:
>
> >To my knowledge there is no way to fully discharge a Duo battery.
>
> The program PowerStrip2.0, which is freeware, has an option called
> "Quick Discharge." You can find it on the Mac archives, probably
> sumex-aim.stanford.edu or mac.archive.umich.edu.
>
> Good luck!
>
>
>
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Kenneth Simon Department of Sociology
> KSSIMON@INDIANA.EDU Indiana University
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
Is it a hidden option? I'm using PowerStrip 2.0 (by Mr. Caputo) right now
and can't find any quick discharge option. It definitely is on
mac.archive.umich.edu 'cause I submitted it!
______________________________________________________________________
Ron Wong The Santa Cruz Operation 408-427-7128
Net & Comm Segment Mgr/ 400 Encinal Street, PO Box 1900 FAX: 425-3544
DevProgram Marketing Mgr Santa Cruz, CA 95061-1900
E-mail: ...uunet!sco!ronaldw ronaldw@sco.COM
______________________________________________________________________
|
4827 | From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye)
Subject: Re: OB-GYN residency
Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire
Lines: 13
[reply to geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)]
>>I believe it is illegal for a residency to discriminate against FMGs.
>Is that true? I know some that won't even interview FMGs.
I think a case could be made that this is discriminatory, particularly
if an applicant had good board scores and recommendations but wasn't
offered an interview, but I don't know if it has ever gone to court.
David Nye (nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu). Midelfort Clinic, Eau Claire WI
This is patently absurd; but whoever wishes to become a philosopher
must learn not to be frightened by absurdities. -- Bertrand Russell
|
4828 | From: x92lee22@gw.wmich.edu
Subject: Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition?
Organization: Western Michigan University
Lines: 33
In article <annick.735440726@cortex.physiol.su.oz.au>, annick@cortex.physiol.su.oz.au (Annick Ansselin) writes:
> In <C5nFDG.8En@sdf.lonestar.org> marco@sdf.lonestar.org (Steve Giammarco) writes:
>
>>>
>>>And to add further fuel to the flame war, I read about 20 years ago that
>>>the "natural" MSG - extracted from the sources you mention above - does not
>>>cause the reported aftereffects; it's only that nasty "artificial" MSG -
>>>extracted from coal tar or whatever - that causes Chinese Restaurant
>>>Syndrome. I find this pretty hard to believe; has anyone else heard it?
>
> MSG is mono sodium glutamate, a fairly straight forward compound. If it is
> pure, the source should not be a problem. Your comment suggests that
> impurities may be the cause.
> My experience of MSG effects (as part of a double blind study) was that the
> pure stuff caused me some rather severe effects.
>
>>I was under the (possibly incorrect) assumption that most of the MSG on
>>our foods was made from processing sugar beets. Is this not true? Are
>>there other sources of MSG?
>
> Soya bean, fermented cheeses, mushrooms all contain MSG.
>
>>I am one of those folx who react, sometimes strongly, to MSG. However,
>>I also react strongly to sodium chloride (table salt) in excess. Each
>>causes different symptoms except for the common one of rapid heartbeat
>>and an uncomfortable feeling of pressure in my chest, upper left quadrant.
>
> The symptoms I had were numbness of jaw muscles in the first instance
> followed by the arms then the legs, headache, lethargy and unable to keep
> awake. I think it may well affect people differently.
Well, I think msg is made from a kind of plant call "tapioca" and not those
staff you mentiond above.
|
4829 | From: ibeshir@nyx.cs.du.edu (Ibrahim)
Subject: Terminal forsale
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Lines: 1
|
4830 | From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Not a Boomer)
Subject: Re: Supply Side Economic Policy
Article-I.D.: desire.1993Apr6.130430.8264
Organization: ACME Products
Lines: 65
In article <186042@pyramid.pyramid.com>, pcollac@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Paul Collacchi) writes:
> In article <Ufk_Gqu00WBKE7cX5V@andrew.cmu.edu>, ashish+@andrew.cmu.edu
> (Ashish Arora) writes:
> |> Excerpts from netnews.sci.econ: 5-Apr-93 Re: Supply Side Economic Po..
> |> by Not a Boomer@desire.wrig
> |> [...]
> |>
> |> > The deficits declined from 84-9, reaching a low of 2.9% of GNP before
> |> > the tax and spending hike of 1990 reversed the trend.
> |> >
> |> > Brett
> |> Is this true ? Some more details would be appreciated.
> |>
> |> cheers
>
> Actually not. Brett himself has actually posted the data previously.
> What declined from 84 to 89, as I remember it, was _percent
> increase_in_deficit_growth, i.e. the rate of growth of the deficit
> (2nd derivative of total deficit with respect of to time) decreased.
Would you please define "nth derivative of debt"? Last time I asked
you seem to have disappeared....
And it's the deficits themselves that came down to 2.9% of GNP. The
numbers are posted in the previous posting.
> Brett apparently has numbed himself into thinking that the deficit
> declined.
Cute, Paul, but with no numbers you still look foolish.
> If you keep spending more than you earn, the deficit keeps
> growing.
Paul, like many others, is confusing the deficit with the debt.
> If you keep _borrowing_ at a lesser rate than you borrowed
> previously, the deficit increases. You only decrease deficits when your
> income exceeds spending and you use the difference to pay off debts.
Not in terms of GNP, the one universally accepted measure of deficits
(at least among rigorous economists :)
...
> arguments were brilliant. He confirmed, with data, what many of us know
> with common sense -- the boom of the 80's has nothing to do with government
> policy, particularly "supply side" policy, since taxes do not "cause"
> economic activities. People cause economic activity. More can be
Semantics. Lindsey proves otherwise. Taxes make people change their
economic activities.
Or shall we debate whether it is the gun, the bullet, or the person who
does the killing?
> explained by watching population waves roll through the years and
> create cycles. He has made models and predictions for years well into
> the middle of next century. It will be neat to see how accurate he
> is.
Or whether this gentleman can win the same praise as Lindsey. :)
Brett
________________________________________________________________________________
"There's nothing so passionate as a vested interest disguised as an
intellectual conviction." Sean O'Casey in _The White Plague_ by Frank Herbert.
|
4831 | From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Hamza Salah, the Humanist
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Lines: 13
cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah) writes:
# Well said Mr. Beyer :)
He-he. The great humanist speaks. One has to read Mr. Salah's posters,
in which he decribes Jews as "sons of pigs and monkeys", keeps
promising the "final battle" between Muslims and Jews (in which the
stons and the trees will "cry for the Muslims to come and kill the
Jews hiding behind them"), makes jokes about Jews dying from heart
attacks etc, to realize his objective stance on the matters involved.
-Danny Keren.
|
4832 | From: lmegna@titan.ucs.umass.edu (Lisa Megna)
Subject: Neurofibromatosis
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Lines: 15
NNTP-Posting-Host: titan.ucs.umass.edu
Hello,
I am writing a grant proposal for a Developmental Genetics class and I
have chose to look at the Neurofibromatosis 1 gene and its variable
expressivity. I am curious what has already been done on this subject,
especially the relationship between specific mutations and the resulting
phenotype. My literature search has produce many references, but I want to
make sure I am proposing new research. If anyone knows aything that has been
recently or key peopl doing research to search for using MEDLINE, I would
apprciate being informed.
Thank you.
Lisa Megna
lmegna@titan.ucc.umass.edu
|
4833 | From: ddsokol@unix.amherst.edu (D. DANIEL SOKOL)
Subject: Re: Enough Freeman Bashing! Was: no-Free man propaganda machine: Freemanwith blood greetings from Israel
Nntp-Posting-Host: amhux3.amherst.edu
Organization: Amherst College
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Lines: 47
Marc A Afifi (mafifi@eis.calstate.edu) wrote:
> pgf5@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Peter Garfiel Freeman) writes:
>
>
> Peter,
>
> I believe this is your most succinct post to date. Since you have nothing
> to say, you say nothing! It's brilliant. Did you think of this all by
> yourself?
>
> -marc
> --
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Some people are so narrow minded they can see through a crack in a door with
> both eyes.
> My opinions should be yours. My employer has no opinions.
> ______________________________________________________________________________
An open letter to Marc Afifi
Dear Marc,
I believe that you are wrong about Mr. Freeman. He has written in
a style that raises the level of posts on this board. If you just don't seem
to get it, I believe that it is more of a reflection of you and your abilities
than of him. His posts contain substance and and he defends his positions
well.
Having said this, I would like to ask in general for people on this
board to realize that if they don't agree with the substance of posts, then they should respond to the substance (or lack of) of the posts rather than attack
the author of the posts. When one has to resort to attacking a poster rather than what he/she has written, one can see that that person does not have the
ability to make a coherent argument concerning the post.
Peace,
Danny
|
4834 | From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Subject: On the eve of 78th Anniversary Commemoration of the Turkish Holocaust.
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world
Lines: 232
In article <1993Apr20.214322.8698@kpc.com> henrik@quayle.kpc.com writes:
OY] Henrik (?),
OY] Your ignorance manifests itself in an awkward form of intransigence. I'm not
OY] going to spend time to review with you the recent history of Cyprus.
> Good !! Go back to your references and read it over and over ...
I wish the fascist x-Soviet Armenian government would do that. Well,
if you prefer to imagine that the American, European, Jewish and Armenian
scholars were trying to mislead 'Arromdians', be my guest.
Source: Stanford J. Shaw, on Armenian collaboration with invading Russian
armies in 1914, "History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey (Volume
II: Reform, Revolution & Republic: The Rise of Modern Turkey, 1808-1975)."
(London, Cambridge University Press 1977). pp. 315-316.
"In April 1915 Dashnaks from Russian Armenia organized a revolt in the city
of Van, whose 33,789 Armenians comprised 42.3 percent of the population,
closest to an Armenian majority of any city in the Empire...Leaving Erivan
on April 28, 1915, Armenian volunteers reached Van on May 14 and organized
and carried out a general slaughter of the local Muslim population during
the next two days while the small Ottoman garrison had to retreat to the
southern side of the lake."
Source: "World Alive, A Personal Story" by Robert Dunn. Crown Publishers,
Inc., New York (1952).
(Memoirs of an American officer who witnessed the Armenian genocide of 2.5
million Muslim people)
p. 361 (seventh paragraph) and p. 362 (first paragraph).
'The most are inside houses. Come you and look.'
'No, dammit! My stomach isn't-'
'One is a Turkish officer in uniform. Him you must see.'
"We were under those trees by the mosque, in an open space....
'I don't believe you," I said, but followed to a nail-studded door. The
man pushed it ajar, then spurred away, leaving me to check on the corpse.
I thought I should, this charge was so constant, so gritted my teeth and
went inside.
The place was cool but reeked of sodden ashes, and was dark at first, for
its stone walls had only window slits. Rags strewed the mud floor around an
iron tripod over embers that vented their smoke through roof beams black
with soot. All looked bare and empty, but in an inner room flies buzzed. As
the door swung shut behind me I saw they came from a man's body lying face
up, naked but for its grimy turban. He was about fifty years old by what
was left of his face - a rifle butt had bashed an eye. The one left slanted,
as with Tartars rather than with Turks. Any uniform once on him was gone, so
I'd no proof which he was, and quickly went out, gagging at the mess of his
slashed genitals."
p. 363 (first paragraph).
'How many people lived there?'
'Oh, about eight hundred.' He yawned.
'Did you see any Turk officers?'
'No, sir. I was in at dawn. All were Tartar civilians in mufti.'
"The lieutenant dozed off, then I, but in the small hours a voice woke me -
Dro's. He stood in the starlight bawling out an officer. Anyone keelhauled
so long and furiously I'd never heard. Then abruptly Dro broke into
laughter, quick and simple as child's. Both were a cover for his sense
of guilt, I thought, or hoped. For somehow, despite my boast of irreligion,
Christian massacring 'infidels' was more horrible than the reverse would
have been.
From daybreak on, Armenian villagers poured in from miles around.....
The women plundered happily, chattering like ravens as they picked over
the carcass of Djul. They hauled out every hovel's chattels, the last
scrap of food or cloth, and staggered away, packing pots, saddlebags,
looms, even spinning-wheels.
'Thank you for a lot, Dro,' I said to him back in camp. 'But now I must
leave.'...We shook hands, the captain said 'A bientot, mon camarade.' And
for hours the old Molokan scout and I plodded north across parching plains.
Like Lot's wife I looked back once to see smoke bathing all, doubtless in
a sack of other Moslem villages up to the line of snow that was Iran.'"
p. 354.
"At morning tea, Dro and his officers spread out a map of this whole
high region called the Karabakh. Deep in tactics, they spoke Russian,
but I got their contempt for Allied 'neutral' zones and their distrust
of promises made by tribal chiefs. A campaign shaped; more raids on
Moslem villages."
p. 358.
"It will be three hours to take," Dro told me. We'd close in on three
sides.
"The men on foot will not shoot, but use only the bayonets," Merrimanov
said, jabbing a rifle in dumbshow.
"That is for morale," Dro put in. "We must keep the Moslems in terror."
"Soldiers or civilians?" I asked.
"There is no difference," said Dro. "All are armed, in uniform or not."
"But the women and children?"
"Will fly with the others as best they may."
p. 360.
"The ridges circled a wide expanse, its floors still. Hundreds of feet
down, the fog held, solid as cotton flock. 'Djul lies under that,' said
Dro, pointing. 'Our men also attack from the other sides.'
Then, 'Whee-ee!' - his whistle lined up all at the rock edge. Bayonets
clicked upon carbines. Over plunged Archo, his black haunches rippling;
then followed the staff, the horde - nose to tail, bellies taking the
spur. Armenia in action seemed more like a pageant than war, even though
I heard our Utica brass roar.
As I watched from the height, it took ages for Djul to show clear. A tsing
of machine-gun fire took over from the thumping batteries; cattle lowed,
dogs barked, invisible, while I ate a hunk of cheese and drank from a snow
puddle. Mist at last folded upward as men shouted, at first heard faintly.
The came a shrill wailing.
Now among the cloud-streaks rose darker wisps - smoke. Red glimmered about
house walls of stone or wattle, into dry weeds on roofs. A mosque stood in
clump of trees, thick and green. Through crooked alleys on fire, horsemen
were galloping after figures both mounted and on foot.
'Tartarski!' shouted the gunner by me. Others pantomimed them in escape
over the rocks, while one twisted a bronze shell-nose, loaded, and yanked
breech-cord, firing again and again. Shots wasted, I thought, when by
afternoon I looked in vain for fallen branch or body. But these shots and
the white bursts of shrapnel in the gullies drowned the women's cries.
At length all shooting petered out. I got on my horse and rode down toward
Djul. It burned still but little flame showed now. The way was steep and
tough, through dense scrub. Finally on flatter ground I came out suddenly,
through alders, on smoldering houses. Across trampled wheat my brothers-in-
arms were leading off animals, several calves and a lamb."
p. 361 (fourth paragraph).
"Corpses came next, the first a pretty child with straight black hair,
large eyes. She looked about twelve years old. She lay in some stubble
where meal lay scattered from the sack she'd been toting. The bayonet
had gone through her back, I judged, for blood around was scant. Between
the breasts one clot, too small for a bullet wound, crusted her homespun
dress.
The next was a boy of ten or less, in rawhide jacket and knee-pants. He
lay face down in the path by several huts. One arm reached out to the
pewter bowl he'd carried, now upset upon its dough. Steel had jabbed
just below his neck, into the spine.
There were grownups, too, I saw as I led the sorrel around. Djul was
empty of the living till I looked up to see beside me Dro's German-speaking
colonel. He said all Tartars who had not escaped were dead."
p. 358.
"...more stories of Armenian murdering Turks when the czarist troops fled
north. My hosts told me of their duty here: to keep tabs on brigands,
Turkish troop shifts, hidden arms, spies - Christian, Red or Tartar -
coming in from Transcaucasus. Then they spoke of the hell that would
break loose if Versailles were to put, as threatened, the six 'Armenian'
vilayets of Turkey under the control of Erevan...
An Armenia without Armenians! Turks under Christian rule? His lips
smacked in irony under the droopy red moustache. That's bloodshed - just
Smyrna over again on a bigger scale."
Source: "U.S. Library of Congress": 'Bristol Papers' - General
Correspondence Container #34.
"While the Dashnaks were in power they did everything in the world to keep the
pot boiling by attacking Kurds, Turks and Tartars; by committing outrages
against the Moslems; by massacring the Moslems; and robbing and destroying
their homes;....During the last two years the Armenians in Russian Caucasus
have shown no ability to govern themselves and especially no ability to
govern or handle other races under their power."
Source: K. Gurun, "The Armenian File," (London, Nicosia, Istanbul, 1985).
"Many Muslim villages have been destroyed by the soldiers of Armenian troops
armed with cannons and machine guns before the eyes of our troops and the
people.....According to documented information, 28 Muslim villages have
been destroyed...young Muslim women have been taken to Kars and Gumru,
hundreds of women and children who were able to flee their villages were
beaten and killed in the mountains..."
Source: W. E. D. Allen and Paul Muratoff, "Caucasian Battlefields,"
Cambridge University Press, 1953, p. 481.
"As the Armenians found support among the Reds (who regarded the Tartars
as a counter-revolutionary elements) the fighting soon became a massacre
of the Tartar population."
Source: General Bronsart wrote as follows in an article in the July 24,
1921 issue of the newspaper "Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung:"
"Since all the Moslems capable of bearing arms were in the Turkish Army,
it was easy to organize a terrible massacre by the Armenians against
defenseless people, because the Armenians were not only attacking the
sides and rear of the Eastern Army paralyzed at the front by the
Russians, but were attacking the Moslem folk in the region as well."
Source: Quoted by General Hamelin in a letter to the High Commissioner,
February 2, 1919, in the official history, "Les Armees Francaises
au Levant," vol. 1, p. 122.
"They [Armenians] burned and destroyed many Turkish villages as punitive
measures in their advance and practically all Turkish villages in their
retreat from Marash."
Source: John Dewey, "The Turkish Tragedy", The New Republic, Volume 40,
November 12, 1928, pp. 268-269.
"that they [Armenians] boasted of having raised an army of one hundred
and fifty thousand men to fight a civil war, and that they burned at
least a hundred Turkish villages and exterminated their population."
Need I go on?
Serdar Argic
'We closed the roads and mountain passes that
might serve as ways of escape for the Turks
and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
(Ohanus Appressian - 1919)
'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists
a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920)
|
4835 | From: js1@Isis.MsState.Edu (Jiann-ming Su)
Subject: Re: Rickey Henderson
Nntp-Posting-Host: isis.msstate.edu
Organization: Mississippi State University
Distribution: usa
Lines: 21
In article <ls1d6vINNs65@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM> str@maredsous.Eng.Sun.COM (Todd Rader) writes:
>Stay in school. You have a lot to learn.
Learn what? I know that 3 million dollars is A LOT of money. I know
Rickey Henderson doesn't have a career out of baseball. I know if he
didn't have baseball, he wouldn't be making near the money he is now.
I just don't understand how some athlete, who only plays a sport for a
living for millions of dollars, say he is not being paid enough.
If nobody will sign him for his asking price, he will be the one hurting.
The A's will still win without him.
Remeber, many of these athletes have NOTHING if not for their athletic
ability. NOTHING. They are getting paid MUCH more than most hard working
citizens, and they are complaining of not enough pay.
I don't have a problem with them making millions. My problem is when the
say they aren't being paid enough, when they already get 3 million--also,
their numbers get worse.
|
4836 | From: peter.m@insane.apana.org.au (Peter Tryndoch)
Subject: Swr Meter For Cb Radios
Lines: 28
AllThe Devil ReincarnateSWR meter for CB radios
TD>From: ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate)
TD>Organization: CDAC, WA
TD>What
TD>is a good choice for a CB? 1/4 or 1/8 wave?
TD> I read the installation instructions on a 1/4 wave antenna,
TD>and they suggested that I use an SWR to tune it at channel 12
TD>and channel 32 for a minimum reading. Question is, why channel
TD>12 and 32?
The best antenna is one that will let out the most wave (probably not the
best explanation, but the rest makes sense) A one wave will cancell itself
out (BTW no such beastie) . The best is a 1/2 wave antenna, followed by
1/4, then 1/8 etc.
As for SWRing in, what you actually do is trim the antenna to the correct
length for the specific wavelength you will be transmitting on. Since the
wavelength varies with the channel you use, then it's recommended to SWR
in using the middle channel of those you are going to use.
Anyway in the beginning of CB's, all new antennas had to be SWR'ed in,
nowdays manufactures trim the antennas almost spot on, so that there's not
much point in SWRing. Then again you may be a fanatic and whish to do it
anyway.
Cheers
Peter T.
|
4837 | From: kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Keith Keller)
Subject: Re: Devils and Islanders tiebreaker????
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 21
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
In article <C5LFA4.E10@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> cal2d@csissun11.ee.Virginia.EDU (Craig Allen Lorie) writes:
>According to the hockey gurus over at ESPN, should the Islanders win tonite
>the two teams will have the same record, but the Devils will be playing the
>Penguins. This is because the Islanders have won the season series against
>the Devils. I think the rules for deciding a tie breaker include:
>
>1. season series
>2. goals against
>3. goals for
>
>in this order (correct me if I'm wrong). Anyone have anything to add?
I think that they go to divisional records before goals, but I could be
wrong, too.
--
Keith Keller LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!
LET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!
kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu IVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!
"When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."
|
4838 | From: pmetzger@snark.shearson.com (Perry E. Metzger)
Subject: Re: Secret algorithm [Re: Clipper Chip and crypto key-escrow]
In-Reply-To: amanda@intercon.com's message of Fri, 16 Apr 1993 23:50:03 -0500
Reply-To: pmetzger@lehman.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers
Lines: 36
In article <1qnupd$jpm@news.intercon.com> amanda@intercon.com (Amanda Walker) writes:
From: amanda@intercon.com (Amanda Walker)
jhesse@netcom.com (John Hesse) writes:
> Oh great. Wonderful news. Nobody can listen in--except the feds.
Hey, it's better than the status quo.
I am far less worried about "the feds" tapping my phone than high school
scanner surfers who get their kicks out of eavesdropping on cellular and
cordless phone calls.
I'm a political dissident. I'm scared shitless of the feds listening
in on my calls. My opinions are the sort that would get me
"disappeared" in a slightly less free society -- and who knows what
sort of society we will be in in five or ten years? I have friends who
have had their phones tapped -- none of this is theoretical to me.
As for "its better than the status quo", well, first of all, you can
get a cryptophone from companies like Cylink today -- and they work
well. In addition, a number of groups are now working on building
software to turn any PC into a privacy enhanced phone right now -- and
they are all working in overdrive mode.
And yes, I'd rather just see all crypto restrictions lifted, but this is at
least an incrememental improvement for certain applications...
There ARE no crypto restrictions... yet. You can use anything you want
RIGHT NOW. The point is to maintain that right.
--
Perry Metzger pmetzger@shearson.com
--
Laissez faire, laissez passer. Le monde va de lui meme.
|
4839 | From: al@col.hp.com (Al DeVilbiss)
Subject: Re: WinBench
Article-I.D.: hp-col.1pqp3rINNg85
Distribution: world
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
Lines: 18
NNTP-Posting-Host: reptile4.col.hp.com
jorge@erex.East.Sun.COM (Jorge Lach - Sun BOS Hardware) writes:
> Is there any FTP site that carries WinBench results for different graphics
> cards? In Excel (XLS) format? What is the latest version of WinBench and
> how do they differ? Is the source available, and has anybody try to port it to
> X-Window, at least in a way that will make comparisons possible?
>
On ftp.cica.indiana.edu in pub/pc/win3/misc/winadv.zip is a writeup by
Steve Gibson of InfoWorld with winbench 3.11 and a number of other
benchmark results for nine isa and four VLB video cards. This is a
very current upload and is likely to have any card you're currently
giving serious consideration. Not in XLS format. Latest version of
WinBench that I know of is ver 3.11. I believe they try to maintain
the same rating scale between versions, and new versions are released
to defeat the lastest coding tricks put in by driver programmers to
beat the benchmarks. Don't know on the last one.
--
Al DeVilbiss
al@col.hp.com
|
4840 | From: jim@inqmind.bison.mb.ca (jim jaworski)
Subject: Re: How many read sci.space?
Organization: The Inquiring Mind BBS 1 204 488-1607
Lines: 36
rborden@ugly.UVic.CA (Ross Borden) writes:
> In article <734850108.F00002@permanet.org> Mark.Prado@p2.f349.n109.z1.permane
> >
> >One could go on and on and on here, but I wonder ... how
> >many people read sci.space and of what power/influence are
> >these individuals?
> >
> Quick! Everyone who sees this, post a reply that says:
>
> "Hey, I read sci.space!"
>
> Then we can count them, and find out how many there are! :-)
> (This will also help answer that nagging question: "Just what is
> the maximum bandwidth of the Internet, anyways?")
>
As an Amateur Radio operator (VHF 2metres) I like to keep up with what is
going up (and for that matter what is coming down too).
In about 30 days I have learned ALOT about satellites current, future and
past all the way back to Vanguard series and up to Astro D observatory
(space). I borrowed a book from the library called Weater Satellites (I
think, it has a photo of the earth with a TIROS type satellite on it.)
I would like to build a model or have a large color poster of one of the
TIROS satellites I think there are places in the USA that sell them.
ITOS is my favorite looking satellite, followed by AmSat-OSCAR 13
(AO-13).
TTYL
73
Jim
jim@inqmind.bison.mb.ca
The Inquiring Mind BBS, Winnipeg, Manitoba 204 488-1607
|
4841 | From: bradw@Newbridge.COM (Brad Warkentin)
Subject: Re: V-max handling request
Nntp-Posting-Host: thor
Organization: Newbridge Networks Corporation
Lines: 21
In article <1qjtr9$llb@news.ysu.edu> ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker) writes:
>
>In a previous article, ba7116326@ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg () says:
>
>>hello there
>>ican anyone who has handson experience on riding the Yamaha v-max, pls kindly
>>comment on its handling .
>
>You're kidding, right? This is Flame bait in the extreme. V-max handling?
>Har har har har....
Zero to very fast very quickly... lastest rumor is 115 hp at the rear wheel,
handles like a dream in a straight line to 80-100, and then gets a tad upset
according to a review in Cycle World... cornering, er well, you can't have
everything... Seriously, handling is probably as good as the big standards
of the early 80's but not compareable to whats state of the art these days.
All this gleemed from reviews and discussions with owners. I too lust after
this bike.
bj...bradw@Newbridge.com... no .sig no .plan no.clue >> DoD# 255 <<
|
4842 | From: takaharu@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Taka Mizutani)
Subject: Re: DX3/99
Organization: University of Pennsylvania
Lines: 15
Nntp-Posting-Host: microlab11.med.upenn.edu
In article <IISAKKIL.93Apr6153602@lk-hp-22.hut.fi>,
iisakkil@lk-hp-22.hut.fi (Mika Iisakkila) wrote:
:Because of some contract, IBM is not allowed to sell its
:486 chips to third parties, so these chips are unlikely to become
:available in any non-IBM machines.
I saw in this months PC or PC World an ad for computers using IBM's 486SLC.
So I don't think IBM is restricted in selling their chips, at least not
anymore. A clock-tripled 486, even without coprocessor would be great,
especially with 16k on-board cache. Make it 386 pin-compatible, and you
have the chip upgrade that dreams are made of :-)
Taka Mizutani
takaharu@mail.sas.upenn.edu
|
4843 | From: gidi@Hilbert.Stanford.EDU (Gidi Avrahami)
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
Organization: Brotherhood Of Breath
Lines: 8
I thought that Walt Weiss was jewish. I seem to recall this
was mentioned once while he was still at Oakland.
Also, I have my suspicions about Esther Canseco (nee Haddad).
--Gidi
|
4844 | From: randyd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Randall Elton Ding)
Subject: Re: ADCOM GTP500II IR sensor & repeater spec's?
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Lines: 48
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
In article <1r1996INNijp@hp-col.col.hp.com> johnr@col.hp.com (John T. Rasper) writes:
>Does anyone know the details of the interface (5 wire din) for the
>IR remote sensor & (2 wire IR repeater) for the ADCOM GTP-500II
>preamp? The ADCOM part numbers are the XR-500II, SPM-500II, and
>IRA-500II.
>
>A cursory physical examination of the pre-amp connector indicates
>that the connector (5 pin din) may provide: (Viewed from connector front)
>
> |
> 5 1 (pin ?) +?v @ ???mA
> 4 2 (pin ?) +/-?v @ ???mA
> 3 (pin 3) Signal Ground
> (pin ?) Demodulated signal ?V-pp, ? polarity, ? mA drive
> (pin ?) Signal to drive repeater LED (drives through 150ohm
> resistor) ?V-pp
>
>I assume that the repeater connectors (mini-plugs) drive the IR repeater
>LED's directly. True?
>
>Can anyone fill in the ?'s. Thanks.
>
Here's the scoop. When you get your home brew receiver working, would
you be willing to share it with the rest of us? I always wanted to
build my own but never have the time to fool around and design it.
pin 1: signal ground
pin 2: signal
pin 3: always hot +6 volts
pin 4: +6 volts, hot only when preamp is turned on
pin 5: infrared repeater connectors
The infrared repeater jacks on the back of the preamp are not connected
to anything inside the preamp except the 5 pin connector pin #5. There
is a 150 ohm resistor between the two jacks, with a 1.5K from pin 5 to
ground.
The signal pin #2 in the preamp is summed with the built in IR receiver.
They use a chip called CX20106A and a BJT to amplify the signal. I would
imagine the logical way would be to duplicate this circuit and use
it as the external receiver.
If you need more info, let me know.
Randy randyd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
|
4845 | From: tsp@ccd.harris.com (Timothy S. Pillsbury)
Subject: need ACS tutorial and/or netlist examples
Originator: tsp@sp1
Keywords: ACS,SPICE,simulation
Organization: Harris Controls
Lines: 18
I recently ftp'd Al's Circuit Simulator (ACS) and I'm looking for
the tutorial which is mentioned in the Users Manual (but not found there).
I don't have any experience constructing a netlist (such as for SPICE)
and I need a little help.
The examples which come with ACS aren't explanatory about the translation
between schematic and netlist. Does anyone have the fabled "Tutorial"
or any other reference which could help me in constructing a netlist from
a schematic diagram?
(I also emailed Al himself but received no response yet. He's probably
busy with his next release.)
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Pillsbury Internet: tsp@ccd.harris.com
uunet: uunet!ccd.harris.com!timothy.pillsbury
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
4846 | From: cathy@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Cathy Smith)
Subject: Questions to Ponder
Distribution: usa
Nntp-Posting-Host: blanca.lance.colostate.edu
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523
Lines: 62
The Libertarian Second Amendment Caucus in Fort Collins, Colorado,
submitted this as a questionnaire to the city council candidates
in the upcoming election. As expected, very few of the candidates
(3 of 13) responded, but they know we're watching.
Feel free to use any and all of these questions that strike your
fancy or use them as inspiration for your own.
*****
1. Would you be willing to state, in writing, that if you are
publicly demonstrated to have violated your oath of office
you would resign and never run for office again?
2. Under what circumstances do the rights of the group come
before the rights of the individual?
3. Would you support a city charter amendment prohibiting the
city government, its officials, agents, and employees from
initiating force against any human being for any reason?
4. Please put the following list in order of precedence (from
lowest to highest): a) city ordinance, b) city resolution,
c) state law, d) federal statute, e) U.S. Constitution,
f) state constitution.
5. Do you believe that it's appropriate for any city official or
employee to be paid more than his or her average private
sector constituent?
6. Do you believe that involuntary contributions are a legitimate
means of funding council programs?
7. Would you support a program recognizing the right of
taxpayers to "earmark" their taxes (either as "must be used"
or "must not be used") for specific programs?
8. In the event that the candidate "None of the Above" were to
win a city election, which option do you believe most
appropriate? a) The candidate with the next highest vote total
fills the office. b) A special election is held to fill the
office, with none of the previous candidates eligible to run
again. c) Let the office remain unfilled and unfunded until
the next election. d) Abolish the office.
Please return your questionnaire to: [address of your choice]
A signature and date line were added here.
Thank you for taking the time to fill out this questionnaire.
******
The questionnaires were sent with self-addressed, stamped envelopes.
P.S. One person _did_ get a perfect score on the questionnaire, and,
no, he didn't help write it.
Cathy Smith
My opinions are, of course, my own.
|
4847 | From: randy@msc.cornell.edu (Randy Ellingson)
Subject: re: Canon BJ200 (BubbleJet) and HP DeskJet 500...
Keywords: printer
Organization: Cornell University
Lines: 43
In article <1993Apr18.041741.6051@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> kayman@csd-d-3.Stanford.EDU (Robert Kayman) writes:
>
>Hello fellow 'netters.
>
>I am asking for your collected wisdom to help me decide which printer I
>should purchase, the Canon BJ200 (BubbleJet) vs. the HP DeskJet 500. I
>thought, rather than trust the salesperson, I would benefit more from
>relying on those who use these printers daily and use them to their fullest
>potential. And, I figure all of you will know their benefits and pitfalls
>better than any salesperson.
>
>Now, I would greatly appreciate any information you could render on the 360
>dpi of the Canon BubbleJet vs. the Hewlett-Packard DeskJet 500 (300 dpi).
>Which is faster? Is there a noticeable print quality difference,
>particularly in graphics? Which will handle large documents better (75
>pages or more) -- any personal experience on either will be appreciated
>here? Which works better under Windows 3.1 (any driver problems, etc)?
>Cost of memory, font packages, toner cartridges, etc? Basically, your
>personal experiences with either of these machines is highly desirable,
>both good and bad.
>
>Advance kudos and thanks for all your input. E-mail or news posting is
>readily acceptable, but e-mail is encouraged (limits bandwidth).
>
>--
>Sincerely,
>
>Robert Kayman ---- kayman@cs.stanford.edu -or- cpa@cs.stanford.edu
>
>"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."
>"You mean you want the revised revision of the original revised revision
> revised?!?!"
Sorry for the followup, but I couldn'y get email through on your addresses.
I, too, am trying to decide between these two printers, and I would like to
hear what users of these printers have to say about the questions above.
Thank you.
Randy randy@msc.cornell.edu
|
4848 | From: jwl@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (james.w.lee..iii)
Subject: Re: new saturn argument
Article-I.D.: cbnewsm.1993Apr6.203837.14323
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 17
In article <C50p1M.21o@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade) writes:
>
> ok, how about this to argue about. why does the sl2 have a much lower base
> price than the sc2??? it's over 1k cheaper(i forget the exact amount).
> doesn't it cost more to have the extra doors/windows/locks/motors etc. that
> are in the 4 door???? perhaps it is just a marketing deal....people want the
> 2door, so they will pay the extra 1.2k???
The SC1/SC2 has a shorter wheel base than the SL/SL1/SL2/SW1/SW2, just a
thought. Ithink your right though......
--
James Lee @ A.T.& T. Bell Labs
Murray Hill, N.J. 07974
Room 2A-336 201-582-4420
att!conceps!jwl
|
4849 | From: npet@bnr.ca (Nick Pettefar)
Subject: Re: GGRRRrrr!! Cages double-parking motorcycles pisses me off!
Nntp-Posting-Host: bmdhh299
Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, Maidenhead, UK
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Lines: 39
Evelyn Wells, on the 12 Apr 1993 11:43 CST wibbled:
: Once again, this morning I pulled up to the designated motorcycle
: parking area, only to find a cage pulled up behind the bikes.
: If people don't double-park cars, why do they do it to motorcycles?
: Never mind that rhetorical question, I know *why* they do it.
: What I want to know is, what can I do about it? Carry pieces of
: paper that say "Don't park your car in the motorcycle area!!" ?
: Call the cops? Wait until they emerge from the building and berate
: them until they beg forgiveness?
: Does anyone else have this problem, and what do you do about it?
: Evie
I don't know if you have a local branch where you are, but the preferred method
over here is to 'phone the IRA and tell them about the car and that it
belongs to an MP who is on a Northern Ireland Government Committee. An hour
or so later, and the car is no longer a problem. It's best not to park too
close to it, though.
--
Nick (the Vengeful Biker) DoD 1069 Concise Oxford Plastic
M'Lud.
___ ___ ___ ___
{"_"} {"_"} {"_"} {"_"} Nick Pettefar, Contractor@Large.
' ` ` ' ' ` ` ' Currently incarcerated at BNR,
___ ___ ___ ___ Maidenhead, The United Kingdom.
|"_"| |"_"| |"_"| |"_"| npet@bnr.ca '86 BMW K100RS "Kay"
` ' ' ` ` ' ' ` Pres. PBWASOH(UK), BS 0002
.
_ _ _ __ .
/ ~ ~~\ | / ~~ \
|_______| [_______|
_:_
|___|
|
4850 | From: srfergu@rufus.erenj.com (Scott Ferguson)
Subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture?
Nntp-Posting-Host: rufus.erenj.com
Organization: Exxon Research & Engineering Co.
Lines: 20
In article <1993Apr3.152922.12050@iscsvax.uni.edu>, harter5255@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
|> Fellow netters,
|>
|> Is anybody awake out there? When someone posted a message telling people to
|> stop posting computer ads to the misc.forsale group, he got about thirty
|> response here, not to mention the rash of E-Mail I'm sure he received. Yet,
|> another person posts a message with the subject line "blow me" and an even
|> worse text, and only 3 or 4 people have the guts to say anything. The majority
Not to mention the thread about selling someone's wife. I am a guy, therefore
not overly bummed by it, but a little common sense would dictate that this
is offensive to many women, and not really necessary.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Ferguson Exxon Research & Engineering Co.
Project Engineer New Jersey
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All opinions, not official view of Exxon.
"I must ask the question...are we going to play Stonehenge tonight?"
|
4851 | From: hatton@socrates.ucsf.edu (Tom Hatton)
Subject: Re: Microsoft DOS 6.0 Upgrade for sale
Organization: UCSF Computer Graphics Lab
Lines: 19
adn6285@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
>In article <1pctnfINN6dp@eve.usc.edu>, yuanchie@eve.usc.edu (Yuan-Chieh Hsu) writes:
>> MS DOS 6.0 Upgrade for sale best offer over $45
>> (opened, unregistered)
>So, does anyone care to enlighten us whether DOS6.0 is worth upgrading to?
>How good is it's compression, and can it be turned on/off at will?
>Any other nice/nasty features?
According to reports, if you don't have DOS yet, and don't have any
utilities (QEMM, Stacker, PCTools, Norton, ...) then DOS6 may be worth it.
For people who have DOS5, and some sort of utility, DOS6 doesn't offer
much. You'd never know it from the usual hype that marketing is able
to create, however. :-)
--
Tom Hatton
hatton@cgl.ucsf.edu
(415)-476-8693
|
4852 | From: dhartung@chinet.chi.il.us (Dan Hartung)
Subject: _The Andromeda Strain_
Summary: How well does it hold up?
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Lines: 28
Just had the opportunity to watch this flick on A&E -- some 15 years
since I saw it last.
I was very interested in the technology demonstrated in this film
for handling infectious diseases (and similar toxic substances).
Clearly they "faked" a lot of the computer & robotic technology;
certainly at the time it was made most of that was science fiction
itself, let alone the idea of a "space germ".
Quite coincidentally [actually this is what got me wanted to see
the movie again] I watched a segment on the otherwise awful _How'd
They Do That?_ dealing with a disease researcher at the CDC's top
lab. There was description of the elaborate security measures taken
so that building will never be "cracked" so to speak by man or
nature (short of deliberate bombing from the air, perhaps). And
the researchers used "spacesuits" similar to that in the film.
I'm curious what people think about this film -- short of "silly".
Is such a facility technically feasible today?
As far as the plot, and the crystalline structure that is not Life
As We Know It, that's a whole 'nother argument for rec.arts.sf.tech
or something.
--
| Next: a Waco update ... an Ohio prison update ... a Bosnia update ... a |
| Russian update ... an abortion update ... and a Congressional update ... |
| here on SNN: The Standoff News Network. All news, all standoff, all day |
Daniel A. Hartung -- dhartung@chinet.chinet.com -- Ask me about Rotaract
|
4853 | From: arc@cco.caltech.edu (Aaron Ray Clements)
Subject: Re: The 'pill' for Deer = No Hunting
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Lines: 16
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu
jrm@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu writes:
> New to this planet ? EVERYTHING is dependent on either public
> or political opinion, usually political. To imagine that
> inalienable 'rights' are somehow wired into the vast cold
> cosmos is purest egotism and a dangerous delusion.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created
equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable
Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness."
Declaration of Independence
4 July 1776
aaron
arc@cco.caltech.edu
|
4854 | From: steve-b@access.digex.com (Steve Brinich)
Subject: Re: Once tapped, your code is no good any more.
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 6
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.net
For that matter, it shouldn't be that difficult to design a black box
that gives off EMR similar to a monitor with gibberish on the screen....
|
4855 | From: Wales.Larrison@ofa123.fidonet.org
Subject: Re: Clementine mission name
X-Sender: newtout 0.08 Feb 23 1993
Lines: 27
Mark Prado
>Please go just one step further:
>How has the word "Clementine" been associated with mining?
Old pioneer song from the 1850's or so goes as follows:
"In a cavern, in a canyon,
Excavating for a mine,
Dwelt a miner, forty-niner,
And his daughter, CLEMENTINE"
Chorus:
"Oh my darling, Oh my darling,
Oh my darling Clementine.
You are lost and gone forever,
Oh my darling Clementine."
I've also had it explained (but not confirmed from a reliable data
source) that CLEMENTINE is an acronym. Something like Combined
Lunar Elemental Mapper Experiment on Extended Non Terrestrial
Intercept Near Earth. Personally, I think that acronym was made up
to fit the name (if it really is an acronym).
------------------------------------------------------------------
Wales Larrison Space Technology Investor
--- Maximus 2.01wb
|
4856 | From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Subject: Re: Command Loss Timer (Re: Galileo Update - 04/22/93)
Keywords: Galileo, JPL
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc
Lines: 25
In <1993Apr23.103038.27467@bnr.ca> agc@bmdhh286.bnr.ca (Alan Carter) writes:
>In article <22APR199323003578@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov>, baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) writes:
>|> 3. On April 19, a NO-OP command was sent to reset the command loss timer to
>|> 264 hours, its planned value during this mission phase.
>This activity is regularly reported in Ron's interesting posts. Could
>someone explain what the Command Loss Timer is?
The Command Loss Timer is a timer that does just what its name says;
it indicates to the probe that it has lost its data link for receiving
commands. Upon expiration of the Command Loss Timer, I believe the
probe starts a 'search for Earth' sequence (involving antenna pointing
and attitude changes which consume fuel) to try to reestablish
communications. No-ops are sent periodically through those periods
when there are no real commands to be sent, just so the probe knows
that we haven't forgotten about it.
Hope that's clear enough to be comprehensible.
--
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
in the real world." -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
|
4857 | From: ml@chiron.astro.uu.se (Mats Lindgren)
Subject: Re: Comet in Temporary Orbit Around Jupiter?
Organization: Uppsala University
Lines: 14
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: chiron.astro.uu.se
Comet P/Helin-Roman-Crockett also spent some time as a temporary
satellite to Jupiter a few years ago if you believe the calculations
by Tancredi, G., Lindgren, M. and Rickman, H.(Astron. Astrophys.,
239, pp. 375-380, 1990).
--
-------------------------------------------------------------
| Mats Lindgren | Mats.Lindgren@astro.uu.se |
| Astronomical Observatory | 21619::laban::ml |
| Box 515 | |
| 751 20 Uppsala | Phone (+46) (0)18 51 35 22 |
| Sweden | Fax 52 75 83 |
-------------------------------------------------------------
|
4858 | From: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)
Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS, was Is it good that Jesus died?
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX
Lines: 20
In article <sandvik-180493131125@sandvik-kent.apple.com> sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:
>In article <f1682Ap@quack.kfu.com>, pharvey@quack.kfu.com (Paul Harvey)
>wrote:
>> In article <sandvik-170493104859@sandvik-kent.apple.com>
>> sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:
>> >Ignorance is not bliss!
>
>> Ignorance is STRENGTH!
>> Help spread the TRUTH of IGNORANCE!
>
>Huh, if ignorance is strength, then I won't distribute this piece
>of information if I want to follow your advice (contradiction above).
>
>
>Cheers,
>Kent
>---
>sandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net.
He was quoting Big Brother from Orwell's 1984.
|
4859 | From: ianf@random.se (Ian Feldman, The Other Internet Worm[tm])
<1omb6fINNm7s@lynx.unm.edu> <a7d56e52@random.se>
Content-Type: setext/plain; charset=ascii_827
Organization: random design -- "Opinions, cheaply"
Lines: 138
Summary: formatted as two 69-line pages (use a monospaced font!)
Subject: SciP+Fi: fiction set in Comp-Science\ programming environs
================ ------------------------------------------------------------
|||||||| SciP+Fi ction set in C-Sci\programming environs list by Ian Feldman
..........:::::: ---------------------------------------- ---- --------------
Written by:_____ _Book Title_; publisher'year, pp v2.7 ISBN
----------- =============================== ------- ==== ##############
John Brunner _Shockwave Rider_; Ray/Ballantine'84 $5_______ 0-345-32431-5
"cracking the net to free information for the common good"
Pat Cadigan _Mindplayers_; ("an absolute must-have" --Bruce Sterling)
Pat Cadigan _Synners_; Bantam $5; (virtual reality)_______ 0-553-28254-9
Orson Scott Card _Lost Boys_; Harper Collins'92; (programmer and family \
encounters strange events in North Carolina)
Denise Danks _Frame Grabber_; St.Martin's, hrdb [GBP]17____ 0-312-08786-1
computer-illiterate journalix tracks down murderer via BBS
Toni Dwiggins _Interrupt_; ("a techno-mystery set in Silicon Valley")
Michael Frayn _The Tin Men_; Fontana, ("inspired lunacy" but out of print)
David Gerrold _When HARLIE was One Release 2.0_; Bantam'88__ 0-553-26465-6
William Gibson _Count Zero_; (computers as gods, part of a trilogy)
William Gibson _Mona Lisa Overdrive_; (virtual reality)______ 0-553-28174-7
William Gibson _Burning Chrome_; (cyberpunk short stories)___ 0-441-08934-8
William Gibson _Neuromancer_; (industrial espionage)_________ 0-441-56959-5
(author guilty of inventing the cyberpunk genre)
James Hogan _The Genesis Machine_; Del Ray'87 $3__________ 0-345-34756-0
James Hogan _Thrice Upon A Time_; ("time travel for information")
James Hogan _The Two Faces of Tomorrow_; Del Ray'79_______ 0-345-27517-9
ultimate test of AI-OS by letting it run a spacelab -> amok
Stanislaw Lem _His Master's Voice_; (failed attempt to decode ET-message)
Tom Maddox _HALO_ ("remarkable SF of robots & artificial intelligence")
George RR Martin _Nightflyers_; Tor Books'87___________________ 0-8125-4564-8
R A MacAvoy _Tea with the Black Dragon_; ("mystery around a computer \
fraud situation; computing bits ring true.")
Vonda N McIntyre _Steelcollar Worker_; in Analog Nov'92; (blue-collar VR)
Marge Piercy _Body of Glass_; Penguin'92, 584pp; (data piracy++) review \
finger "books=Body_of_Glass%danny"@orthanc.cs.su.oz.au
---> David Pogue _Hard-Drive_; Diamond'93 $5, 304pp____________ 1-55773-884-X
(*programmer dies in accident, leaves no documentation \
behind; software firms fight for market share with virii; \
"right out of the pages of MacWorld" --Steve Brock)
Richard Powers _The Gold Bug Variations_; Morrow '91, (famous molecular \
scientist ponders on the ?why? of love, life in EDP dept.)
Paul Preuss _Human Error_; (nanotech computer infects brain-damaged kid)
Thomas J Ryan _The Adolescence of P1_; ACE'79_______________ 0-671-55970-2
(runaway AI experiment takes over mainframes, wrecks havoc)
Bruce Sterling _The Difference Engine_; (with W Gibson) Bantam'91; finger \
"books=The_Difference_Engine%danny"@orthanc.cs.su.oz.au
Cliff Stoll _The Cuckoo's Egg_; (non-fiction but reads like one); review
FTP <garbo.uwasa.fi>; /mac/tidbits/1991/tb048_18-Mar-91.etx
Tom T Thomas _ME_; ("smart computers")
Vernor Vinge _Across Realtime_; Baen Books_____________ [several titles \
Vernor Vinge _Tatja Grimm's World_; Baen Books__________ soon available \
Vernor Vinge _The Witling_; Baen Books___________________ as Millennium \
Vernor Vinge _Threats and Other Promises_; Baen Books_____ Books in UK]
Vernor Vinge _True Names & Other Dangers_; Baen Books'87___ 0-671-65363-6
Vernor Vinge _A Fire Upon The Deep_; Tor Books, 640p, $6___ 0-8125-1528-5
("essentially about the future of the Internet")
John Varley _Press Enter_; ("Short story, gruesome, but good")
Ed Yourdon _Silent Witness_; ("Computer crime caper story; gumshoe \
has to explain intricacies of computer OS to girlfriend")
Herbert W Franke _Das Zentrum der Milchstrasse_; ("the center of the galaxy")
Herbert W Franke _Letzte Programmierer_; ("'the last programmer'; \
I do NOT mean Frank Herbert!")
Emil Zopfi _Computer Fuer 1001 Nacht_; Limmat Verlag, Switzerland
Emil Zopfi _Jede Minute Kostet 33 Franken_; (last 4 in German; last 2 \
"set in the commercial computing world of the early 70's")
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
current version of this list via `finger "scip+fi%danny"@orthanc.cs.su.oz.au'
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
compiled 930424; % mail -s "additions/ comments/ updates --->" ianf@random.se
================ ============================================= ==============
Statistical breakdown
--------------------------
+-- --------------------- SciP+Fiction -----+------------+------------------+
| # nominations /title ~~~~~~~~~~~~ /author # books nominated |
+-- =========== ----------------------------+ =========== ================= +
| 5 _The Adolescence of P-1_; Ryan | Vinge 10 6 titles |
| 5 _Neuromancer_; Gibson | Gibson 10 5 titles |
| 4 _True Names and Other Dangers_; Vinge | Ryan 5 _The Adolescence..|
| 4 _Shockwave Rider_; Brunner | Brunner 4 _Shockwave Rider_ |
| 4 _When H.A.R.L.I.E was One_; Gerrold | Gerrold 4 _When H.A.R.L.I.E.|
| 4 _A Fire Upon The Deep_; Vinge | Hogan 3 3 titles |
| 2 _Threats and Other Promises_; Vinge | Lem 3 _Fiasco_HMV_Solar.|
+-- ----------------------------------------+ ----------- ----------------- +
| # total nominations: 85; authors: 27; female: 5?6; sent in by: 42 readers |
+======== ================ ============ ============ =======================+
Contributions by [unsorted FIFO]:
----------------------------------------
From: sbrock@teal.csn.org (Steve Brock)
From: "John Lacey" <johnl@cs.indiana.edu>
From: malloy@nprdc.navy.mil (Sean Malloy)
From: thom kevin gillespie <thom@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
From: Paul Christopher Workman <pw0l+@andrew.cmu.edu>
From: kellys@code3.code3.com (Kelly Sorensen)
From: whughes@lonestar.utsa.edu (William W. Hughes)
From: North_TJ@cc.curtin.edu.au (Tim North)
From: LORETI@FNAL.FNAL.GOV (Maurizio Loreti)
From: Stephen Hart <stephenh@cs.mun.ca>
From: Duane F Marble <dmarble@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
From: Matthias Neeracher <neeri@iis.ee.ethz.ch>
From: Wolfram Wagner <ww@mpi-sb.mpg.de>
From: webb@tsavo.HKS.COM (Peter Webb)
From: setzer@ssd.comm.mot.com (Thomas Setzer)
From: kevles@acf3.NYU.EDU (Beth Kevles)
From: dp@world.std.com (Jeff DelPapa)
From: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires)
From: hartman@uLogic.com (Richard Hartman)
From: Vernor Vinge <vinge%saturn@sdsu.edu>
From: Paul Lebeau <plebeau@cix.compulink.co.uk>
From: "Lawrence Rounds" <ljr@beach.cis.ufl.edu>
From: phydeaux@cumc.cornell.edu (David Weingart)
From: chgs02@vaxa.strath.ac.uk (By learning+courtesy)
From: Rowan Fairgrove <rowanf@cache.crc.ricoh.com>
From: peterc@suite.sw.oz.au.sw.oz.au (Peter Chubb,x114,6982322,3982735)
From: Gara Pruesse <gara@cs.toronto.edu>
From: russell@alpha3.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Russell Schulz)
From: ahm@spatula.rent.com (Andreas Meyer)
From: jon@cs.washington.edu (Jon Jacky)
From: eugene@nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
From: "A.M.MAIR" <CHGS02@VAXB.STRATHCLYDE.AC.UK>
From: mengel@dcdmwm.fnal.gov (Marc Mengel)
From: Roger Scowen <rss@seg.npl.co.uk>
From: kevino@clbooks.com (Kevin Oster -- System Administrator)
From: chavey@cs.wisc.edu (Darrah Chavey)
From: Vonda McIntyre <mcintyre@cpac.washington.edu>
From: Bruce Sterling <bruces@well.sf.ca.us>
From: "Scott Thomas Yabiku" <yabi@midway.uchicago.edu>
From: Thomas Adshead <uad1212@dircon.co.uk>
From: Paul Andrews <76050.161@CompuServe.COM>
===== ======================================= ---------> MUCHO thanks to all!
__Ian "The Other internet Worm[tm]" Feldman <ianf@random.se>
|
4860 | From: jja2h@Virginia.EDU ("")
Subject: Re: Brien Taylor: Where is he?
Organization: University of Virginia
Lines: 9
Last year Brein Taylor was in A ball, probably at Tampa in the
Florida State League. I believe he began this year in AA which
is Albany. Hopefully George won't rush him and he'll be
allowed to progress at his own rate to AAA and then to the
Bronx. This guy is the real thing.
Jonathan Alboum
UVA
|
4861 | From: brian@lpl.arizona.edu (Brian Ceccarelli 602/621-9615)
Subject: Re: Is it good that Jesus died?
Organization: Lunar & Planetary Laboratory, Tucson AZ.
Lines: 110
Jesus:
> "This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but
> men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds
> are evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will
> not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be
> exposed."
Kent Sandvik says:
>It seems we are dealing with a black-and-white interpretation.
>Brian, are you subtly accusing me of evil things because I never
>saw the light? However, this is even more confusing because
>I even admit that I don't like the situation where I'm not
>informed.
Black and white. A spade is a spade. There is no hidden
agenda behind this, so stop trying to look for one. It is an
easy and as straight forward as it reads.
Kent, I am not accusing you of evil things. Jesus is accusing you.
And it is not only you that He is accusing. He is accusing everyone.
Me, you and everyone in the world is guilty. Whether one
sees the light or does not seen the light has nothing to do with
whether we do evil things. We do them regardless.
Jesus uses the word "men". I am included. Jesus is not soloing you out.
Jesus is making a general statement about out the sad state of man.
Christians are not immuned from doing evil things. A Christian
is just a person in whom the Holy Spirit indwells. A Christian
can see the evil he is doing--because his evil has been brought
out into the light. Jesus is not saying that just because evil has been
exposed, that the Christian will stop doing evil. If you haven't
seen Jesus's light, your evil deeds simply haven't been
exposed to the His light. You may shed some light on your
own. Your human spirit shines at perhaps 1 candela. But the
Holy Spirit shines at a Megacandela. The Holy Spirit can
shine light into places inside us where we didn't even know
existed.
So do you see Jesus's point? Christians are not perfect. Nonchristians
are not perfect. Nonchristians do not want to come into the
Light of Jesus because they will see all the problems in their lives,
and they will not like the sight. It is an ugly thing to see how far
we have fallen from Jesus's perspective. Do you think you want to
know how really ignorant you are? Do you think Brian Kendig wants
to know? Do you think I want to know? Ego verses the truth,
which do you choose?
>I'm watching the news about a man who saw the light, and made
>sure that the 19 children burned to death as part of his insight
>into the light. I don't think the world is that simple. And if
>you act in such ways when you are enlighted, then I'm a happy
>man and I pray I will never receive such 'light'.
And I watched Koresh too, an imposter who thought he saw the light,
who made sure that the 19 children burned to death, sadly, as part
of his delusion. It is even sadder that the people who
died with him chose to die with them, and that ignorance was
their downfall to death.
And Kent, don't you bury yourself underneath a rock with an
excuse like bringing up Koresh--as if Koresh actually had truth in him.
David Koresh was no light and no excuse for
you to stay away from the real Jesus Christ. David Koresh, who
claimed to be Jesus, was a fraud. It was obvious. David Koresh
was born in America. Jesus was born in Bethlehem. Koresh wasn't
even a good imposter having missed an obvious point as that.
Jesus warned of such imposters in the end-times. David
Koresh wasn't anything new to Jesus. Jesus told us to be
aware of imposters 2000 years ago.
So the next time an imposter makes a scene and claims to
be Jesus. Ask the obvious. Where were you born? Was your
mother's name Mary? If the Branch Davidians asked that
simple question, they would have labeled Koresh a liar
right from the start. The wouldn't have followed Koresh.
They wouldn't have died. But look what happened. Their
ignorance cost them their lives. Their choice to be ignorant
cost them a lot.
Kent, since you studied the Bible under Lutheranism, do you
not remember what tactic Satan used to try to tempt Jesus?
Did not Satan quote the Bible out of context? Do you
remember what tactic the serpent of Genesis used to tempt
Eve? Did he not misquote God? What Satan used on Eve and succeeded,
was the same ploy he tried on Jesus. But in Jesus's case,
Jesus rebuked Satan back with the Bible _in_ context. It
didn't work with Jesus.
Does what Satan did to Eve in the Garden and what Satan
tried to do with Jesus in the desert remind you of what
Koresh did to his followers? Who did Koresh emulate?
Who was Koresh's teacher? Koresh did to his followers what
Satan did to Eve. Did not Koresh kill his followersr? Did
not Satan cause Adam and Eve to die as well? Did not
the cult followers believe Koresh even though they knew
the real Christ was born in Bethlehem? Did not Eve
choose to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and
evil despite knowing that it would cause her death? God
held them all responsible--deceiver and the rebeller. None
of them had an excuse.
As opposed to the Branch Davidians, we have a second chance.
Follow Jesus and he will escort us to the path of eternal life.
Don't follow Jesus, and you stand condemned already, for like
the Branch Davidian complex, your house is already on fire.
Satan, Adam and Eve have already set it ablaze. It is just
a slow burn, but it is burning nevertheless.
|
4862 | From: charlesw@sail.LABS.TEK.COM (Charles Wilson)
Subject: Re: Experience/opinions sought, diesel engines
Article-I.D.: sail.13600
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR.
Lines: 42
In article <91321@hydra.gatech.EDU> jkg@jmp.com writes:
>Apologies if this is a FAQ (is there a FAQ posting for this group? I
>am an infrequent reader of rec.autos, so I can't remember).
>
>I am in the market for a used Chevy Suburban, and have observed that
>prices for models with diesel engines run about $1000-2000 less than
>comparable models with a gas engine.
>
>There has to be a reason for this.
>
Yes, there is: consumer confusion. In the early 80's with the
fuel crisis, etc., everyone wanted better fuel mileage. Diesel fuel
was the cheapest fuel available and usually provides better mileage
than comparable gasoline engines. So, GM decided to conver their
350 gas engine into a diesel engine (I think was a 5.7 liter). Big
mistake. The engine was not redesigned, but converted. The engine
could not handle the higher compression, etc. Lots of problems with
these cars. This thew up a big red flag to the casual observer --
DON"T BUY A DIESEL. THEY ARE BAD. This was a gross generalization.
Ask yourself this question -- if your livelihood depended on driving,
LOTS of it, would you use a dependable or undependable (but cheaper
in the short run) vehicle? What do Greyhound busses have in them?
Trailer Trucks? Even Train Locomotives? Are these gasoline engines?
No, they are diesel. Tractor trailer truck manufacturers provide a
500,000 mile warrantee with they vehicles.
I own an `82 Diesel Suburban. The 6.2L diesel is a GREAT engine.
Just keeps going. It was more expensive (when new) than the gasoline
engine vehicle was. The only problem with diesel engines is that
when they need to be rebuilt, they are expensive. In a gas 350
engine, you will pay about $1000 for a rebuild. Diesel 6.2L is about
$2000. But then again, the diesel engine lasts about twice as long
and gets about 50% better mileage. A carburator for a gasoline engine
costs about $100 to rebuild (or less). A rebuild of the fuel injection
pump on a diesel will cost about $500 (or more). But then again,
you never need a tune-up.
If you're looking at a rebuilt 6.2L, I'd say you got a great deal.
Check to see if the fuel injection pump was rebuilt also.
Good luck.
|
4863 | From: mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca (Malcolm Lee)
Subject: Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews?
Organization: Royal Roads Military College, Victoria, B.C.
Lines: 26
In article <C5sL3z.2B2@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, pmy@vivaldi.acc.virginia.edu (Pete Yadlowsky) writes:
|>
|> Anyway, I've often wondered what business followers of Christ would have
|> with weapons.
|>
|> --
|> Peter M. Yadlowsky | Wake! The sky is light!
|> Academic Computing Center | Let us to the Net again...
|> University of Virginia | Companion keyboard.
|> pmy@Virginia.EDU | - after Basho
IMO, a Christian has no need of weapons. I know it is very contrary to the
American NRA ethos of the right to bear arms, but Christians should rely on
the strength of God to protect them. Note that I say *should*. We are
inherently insecure but I feel that that is not proper justification to be
armed to the teeth. A Christian should not have to rely on physical weapons
to defend himself. A Christian should rely on his faith and intelligence.
For instance, I have the faith that God will protect me but God also gave
me the intelligence to know not to go walking down that dark alley at night.
To jump off a cliff and say that God will save me would be putting God to the
test. And who are we to test God?
God be with you,
Malcolm Lee :)
|
4864 | From: kkerr@MK (Kevin Kerr)
Subject: Re: WFAN
Lines: 41
Nntp-Posting-Host: kerr.dseg.ti.com
Organization: ENGINEERING AUTOMATION
In article <C5JC3z.KnD@news.udel.edu> philly@ravel.udel.edu (Robert C Hite) writes:
>From: philly@ravel.udel.edu (Robert C Hite)
>Subject: Re: WFAN
>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 17:19:09 GMT
>In article <1993Apr15.151202.3551@Virginia.EDU> jja2h@Virginia.EDU ("") writes:
>>Does any one out there listen to WFAN? For those of you who do
>>not know what I am talking about, it is an all sports radio
>>staion in New York. On a clear night the signal reaches up and
>>down the East coast. In particular, I want to know how Len
>>Berman and Mike Lupica's show is. I go to school in Virginia
>>so I can't listen when there are on during the day. Just
>>wondering.
>The FAN is an okay Sports Radio station, but doesn't come close to
>the ULTIMATE in Sports Radio, 610 WIP in Philadelphia. The signal
>might not be as powerful, but then again only stations in New York
>feel "obligated" to pollute everyone else's airwaves with a bunch of
>hoodlum Mets fans complaining 24 hours a day. WIP took two of your
>best sports jockeys too, Jody MacDonald and Steve Fredericks. 610
>WIP is rockin with sports talk from 5:30 AM till midnight, check it
>out anytime your within a few hours of Philadelphia. If I'm not
>mistaken, WIP has the highest sports talk ratings in the nation?
I'm from Dallas, and you have alot of nerve saying that WFAN has a bunch of
Hoodlum Mets fans. During the football season, the local cowboy station here
had the WIP on several times for simultanious broadcasts. I have never heard
a bigger bunch of low intellect, bed wetting ,obnoxious, woofing, cranial
deformed, assholes in my entire life! The IQ of the average eagles fan must
be in the 10-15 range at best, and they have been known to be big droolers.
(Please no flames) ... <let's see if it works for me Bob> ;-)
=========================================================================
| Kevin P. Kerr kkerr@mkcase1.dseg.ti.com | #
| |
| S.A.B.R member since '92 GO YANKEES !!! GO DOLPHINS !!! |
| |
| "Strolling through cyberspace, sniffing the electric wind...." |
=========================================================================
|
4865 | From: eshneken@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Edward A Shnekendorf)
Subject: Airline ticket: Washington DC -> Champaign, IL (FOR SALE)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 9
I am selling a one way ticket from Washington DC to Champaign, IL ( the
home of the University of Illinois). Am willing to offer a good price.
If you are interested, please email me at: eshneken@uiuc.edu
Thanks,
Ed.
|
4866 | From: smb@research.att.com (Steven Bellovin)
Subject: More technical details
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 116
Here are some corrections and additions to Hellman's note, courtesy of
Dorothy Denning. Again, this is reposted with permission.
Two requests -- first, note the roles of S1 and S2. It appears to me
and others that anyone who knows those values can construct the unit
key. And the nature of the generation process for K1 and K2 is such
that neither can be produced alone. Thus, the scheme cannot be
implemented such that one repository generates the first half-key, and
another generates the second. *That* is ominous.
Second -- these postings are not revealed scripture, nor are they
carefully-crafted spook postings. Don't attempt to draw out hidden
meanings (as opposed to, say, the official announcements of Clipper).
Leave Denning out of this; given Hellman's record of opposition to DES,
which goes back before some folks on this newsgroup knew how to read, I
don't think you can impugn his integrity.
Oh yeah -- the folks who invented Clipper aren't stupid. If you think
something doesn't make sense, it's almost certainly because you don't
understand their goals.
--Steve Bellovin
-----
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 93 07:56:39 EDT
From: denning@cs.georgetown.edu (Dorothy Denning)
Subject: Re: Clipper Chip
To: (a long list of folks)
I was also briefed by the NSA and FBI, so let me add a few comments to
Marty's message:
The Clipper Chip will have a secret crypto algorithm embedded in
The algorithm operates on 64-bit blocks (like DES) and the chip supports
all 4 DES modes of operation. The algorithm uses 32 rounds of scrambling
compared with 16 in DES.
In addition to the system key, each user will get to choose his
or her own key and change it as often as desired. Call this key
plain old K. When a message is to be sent it will first be
K is the session key shared by the sender and receiver. Any method
(e.g., public key) can be used to establish the session key. In the
AT&T telephone security devices, which will have the new chip, the key
is negotiated using a public-key protocol.
encrypted under K, then K will be encrypted under the unit key UK,
and the serial number of the unit added to produce a three part
message which will then be encrypted under the system key SK
producing
E{ E[M; K], E[K; UK], serial number; SK}
My understanding is that E[M; K] is not encrypted under SK (called the
"family key") and that the decrypt key corresponding to SK is held by
law enforcement. Does anyone have first hand knowledge on this? I
will also check it out, but this is 7am Sunday so I did not want to wait.
The unit key
will be generated as the XOR of two 80-bit random numbers K1
and K2 (UK=K1+K2) which will be kept by the two escrow
The unit key, also called the "chip key," is generated from the
serial number N as follows. Let N1, N2, and N3 be 64 bit blocks
derived from N, and let S1 and S2 be two 80-bit seeds used as keys.
Compute the 64-bit block
R1 = E[D[E[N1; S1]; S2]; S1]
(Note that this is like using the DES in triple encryption mode with
two keys.) Similarly compute blocks R2 and R3 starting with N2 and N3.
(I'm unlear about whether the keys S1 and S2 change. The fact that
they're called seeds suggests they might.) Then R1, R2, and R3 are
concatenated together giving 192 bits. The first 80 bits form K1 and
the next 80 bits form K2. The remaining bits are discarded.
authorities. Who these escrow authorities will be is still to be
decided by the Attorney General, but it was stressed to me that
they will NOT be NSA or law enforcement agencies, that they
must be parties acceptable to the users of the system as unbiased.
Marty is right on this and the FBI has asked me for suggestions.
Please pass them to me along with your reasons. In addition to Marty's
criteria, I would add that the agencies must have an established record
of being able to safeguard highly sensitive information. Some suggestions
I've received so far include SRI, Rand, Mitre, the national labs (Sandia,
LANL, Los Alamos), Treasury, GAO.
When a court order obtains K1 and K2, and thence K, the law
enforcement agency will use SK to decrypt all information
flowing on the suspected link [Aside: It is my guess that
they may do this constantly on all links, with or without a
court order, since it is almost impossible to tell which links
over which a message will flow.]
My understanding is that there will be only one decode box and that it
will be operated by the FBI. The service provider will isolate the
communications stream and pass it to the FBI where it will pass through
the decode box, which will have been keyed with K.
for "the wiretap authorizations." When Levy asked for
the details so he could review the cases as required by
law, the agent told him that his predecessors just turned
over 40-50 blank, signed forms every time. Levi did not
comply and changed the system, but the lesson is clear:
No single person or authority should have the power to
authorize wiretaps
No single person does, at least for FBI taps. After completing a mound
of paperwork, an agent must get the approval of several people on a chain
that includes FBI legal counsel before the request is even taken to the
Attorney General for final approval.
Dorothy Denning
|
4867 | From: levy@levy.fnal.gov (Mark E. Levy, ext. 8056)
Subject: Sources for Intel D87C51FB?
Nntp-Posting-Host: levy.fnal.gov
Organization: Fermilab Computing Division
Lines: 18
I am in the midst of designing a project which requires two motors and an LED
illuminator driven with Pulse-width modulation. I'm using the 8751, and
I understand that the -FB version has a programmable counter array that can
essentially be set and forgotten to do the PWM. The problems is, that variant
is difficult to come by. I need two or three of the D prefix (ceramic window)
version for development, and then lots of the P prefix (plastic OTP) for later
production. I've tried Avnet, Arrow, and Pioneer. They (might) have them, but
I'm looking for samples at this point, and they're not too willing to provide
them. I would buy them, but these vendors have $100.00 minimums.
Any help is appreciated.
================================================================================
[ Mark E. Levy, Fermilab | ]
[ BitNet: LEVY@FNAL | Unix is to computing ]
[ Internet: LEVY@FNALD.FNAL.GOV | as an Etch-a-Sketch is to art. ]
[ HEPnet/SPAN: FNALD::LEVY (VMS!) | ]
================================================================================
|
4868 | Organization: Penn State University
From: <DGS4@psuvm.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: ABORTION and private health coverage -- letters regarding
<sandvik-140493233557@sandvik-kent.apple.com> <1qk73q$3fj@agate.berkeley.edu>
<syt5br_@rpi.edu> <nyikos.735335582@milo.math.scarolina.edu>
Lines: 41
In article <nyikos.735335582@milo.math.scarolina.edu>, nyikos@math.scarolina.edu
(Peter Nyikos) says:
>
>In <syt5br_@rpi.edu> rocker@acm.rpi.edu (rocker) writes:
>
>>In <1qk73q$3fj@agate.berkeley.edu> dzkriz@ocf.berkeley.edu (Dennis Kriz)
>writes:
>
>>>If one is paying for a PRIVATE health insurance plan and DOES NOT WANT
>>>"abortion coverage" there is NO reason for that person to be COMPLELLED
>>>to pay for it. (Just as one should not be compelled to pay for lipposuction
>>>coverage if ONE doesn't WANT that kind of coverage).
>
>>You appear to be stunningly ignorant of the underlying concept of health
>>insurance.
>
>Are you any less stunningly ignorant? Have you ever heard of life
>insurance premiums some companies give in which nonsmokers are charged
>much smaller premiums than smokers?
>
>Not to mention auto insurance being much cheaper for women under 25 than
>for men under 25, because women on the average drive more carefully
>than most men--in fact, almost as carefully as I did before I was 25.
As many people have mentioned, there is no reason why insurers could not
offer a contract without abortion services for a different premium.
The problem is that there is no guarantee that this premium would be
lower for those who chose this type of contract. Although you are
removing one service, that may have feedbacks into other types of covered
care which results in a net increase in actuarial costs.
For an illustrative example in the opposite direction, it may be possible
to ADD services to an insurance contract and REDUCE the premium. If you
add preventative services and this reduces acute care use, then the total
premium may fall.
These words and thoughts are my own. * I am not bound to swear
** ** ** ** * allegiance to the word of any
** ** ** ** ** ** * master. Where the storm carries
** ** ** * me, I put into port and make
D. Shea, PSU * myself at home.
|
4869 | From: pmetzger@snark.shearson.com (Perry E. Metzger)
Subject: are we being hysterical? No!
In-Reply-To: amolitor@nmsu.edu's message of 17 Apr 1993 17:54:23 GMT
Reply-To: pmetzger@lehman.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers
<1qpg8fINN982@dns1.NMSU.Edu>
Distribution: na
Lines: 80
In article <1qpg8fINN982@dns1.NMSU.Edu> amolitor@nmsu.edu (Andrew Molitor) writes:
>In article <tcmayC5M2xv.JEx@netcom.com>
> tcmay@netcom.com (Timothy C. May) writes:
>>
>>But is it any worse than the current unsecure system? It becomes much
>>worse, of course, if the government then uses this "Clinton Clipper"
>>to argue for restrictions on unapproved encryption. (This is the main
>>concern of most of us, I think. The camel's nose in the tent, etc.)
>>
> Not to pick on Mr. May in particular, of course, but isn't this
>kind of the domino theory?
As John Gilmore has pointed out repeatedly, if you produce the
infrastructure that would permit a police state to function, all that
is required to suddenly find yourself living in one is a change of
attitude on the part of the government.
Our constitution was built by men who had to risk their lives to
ensure freedom in our country. They designed the system to make it
difficult for tyranny to arise. For instance, one of the reasons the
fourth amendment was put there was to make it harder for the
government to try to make smuggling a crime. Think I jest? John
Hancock made all his money smuggling rum, which is, after all, a drug.
Think about it. The government has everyones keys in escrow, and the
FBI gets their pet "wiretap without leaving the office" scheme. There
is a coup, which happens every day all around the world. Within hours,
everyone in the country who might oppose the tyrants is being
monitored more closely than ever before possible.
Without the tools being in place, a tyranny cannot stand. With tools
like this in place, a tyrannical dictatorship could actually be
successfully imposed.
Why give the government tools with which to enslave you? Maybe you can
trust Bill Clinton, but are you willing to tell me that you can trust
EVERY government that will ever arise in the U.S. hereafter? I am not
willing to make that leap of faith.
>>-Tim May, whose sig block may get him busted in the New Regime
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Isn't this just a little melodramatic?
I'm a political dissident. As such, I am acutely aware of what happens
to political dissidents in most of the world. In most of the world, I
could be killed for my beliefs. Call Amnesty International some time
to find out what happens to dissidents in most of the world.
All that seperates the U.S. from most of those places is a thin piece
of parchment in the National Archives thats being constantly more and
more eroded by such farces as the war on drugs. Coups have happened in
countries that have had stable democracies for over a hundred years.
Governments throughout history have fallen. No government has lasted
for more than a few hundred years. Often, they are replaced by
dictatorships. Do you really believe so intensely that it could never
ever ever happen here that you are willing to bet your own life and
the lives of your children and other loved ones on it?
If we construct the tools with which tyranny could be enforced, we
make it orders of magnitude more likely that it could happen, because
if it happened with the tools already in place it could actually
stick.
Naive fools such as our leadership believe they can protect us where
hundreds that have gone before have failed. Thriving democracies led
by men far more skillfull than Bill Clinton have fallen to
dictatorship. Rome had a thriving republic run by exquisitely skilled
men before they became a tyranny.
I, for one, am unwilling to trust that it could never happen here.
Only hubris would allow us to believe we are immune to what has
happened elsewhere.
--
Perry Metzger pmetzger@shearson.com
--
Laissez faire, laissez passer. Le monde va de lui meme.
|
4870 | From: jono@mac-ak-24.rtsg.mot.com (Jon Ogden)
Subject: Re: Latest on Branch Davidians
Organization: Motorola LPA Development
Lines: 23
In article <Apr.20.03.02.42.1993.3815@geneva.rutgers.edu>,
conditt@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Paul Conditt) wrote:
> I think it's really sad that so many people put their faith in a mere
> man, even if he did claim to be the son of God, and/or a prophet.
It is just as Christ said about his return:
"Some will say, 'He is in the desert.' or some will say, 'He is in the
wilderness.' But do not believe them. For as lightning flashes east to
west so shall the coming of the Son of Man be."
{ My paraphrase - I think the
verse is
somewhere in John }
Jon
----------------
sig file broken....
please try later...
----------------
|
4871 | From: mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer)
Subject: Darrrrrrrrryl
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Lines: 64
The media is beating the incident at Dodger Stadium on Wednesday to
death, but I haven't seen anything in rsb yet.
Gerald Perry of the Cardinals pinch hit in the eighth inning with two
on and his club down by a run. He stroked a line drive into the
right field corner. The ball cleared the three-foot high fence and
went into the crowd. Darryl, racing over from right center, got to
the spot in time to reach his glove up over the short fence, but he
missed the ball. A fan sitting in the front row, wearing a mitt,
reached up and caught the ball. Home run.
Now I've seen the replay several times and I have concluded that
Darryl missed the ball, and that the fan's glove was essentially
behind Darryl's. Several Dodger fans with seats in the immediate
vicinity have claimed that the fan unquestionably interfered with
Strawberry. What cannot be disputed, however, is that the fan
who caught the ball never took his eye off it; he was oblivious
to where the fielder was playing. He was also quite exuberant as
soon as he realized he had made the catch.
That exuberance disappeared immediately, however, when Strawberry
went into a tirade at the man. All reports indicate he used a lot
of profanity and accused the man of interference, and therefore of
costing the Dodgers a game. Shortly afterwards other fans hurled
food and beverages toward the man who made the catch. Dodger Stadium
officials started to remove him from the park, but then relented and
just relocated him to another area. In an interview after the game,
Lasorda blamed the fan for the loss. Strawberry also went into a
tirade about how the fans are stupid and they don't care about
winning. L.A. Times columnists similarly blasted the man who made
the catch.
Before each Dodger game the public address announcer makes a speech
wherein he says that fans are welcome to the souvenirs of balls that
are hit into the stands as long as they do not interfere with any
that are in the field of play. Was the fan wrong? Should he have
been more aware of the situation and acted to avoid any possibility
of interference? Or was he human and just reacting? By the way, he
is a season ticket holder and on his request the Dodgers have relocated
his seats to another area of the Stadium where future interference is
impossible.
Others have questioned why Darryl should be so concerned with what
the fan did when he has a grand total of 1 rbi through the first
nine games.
I question what he was doing in right center with a left-handed pull
hitter up and the game on the line. Had he been closer to the play,
he certainly would have had a much better chance of catching the ball.
But I guess the big debate continues as to what are the responsibilities
of the fan.
-- The Beastmaster
--
Mark Singer
mss@netcom.com
|
4872 | Subject: Help with changing Startup logo
From: C..Doelle@p26.f3333.n106.z1.fidonet.org (C. Doelle)
Lines: 23
Hello Brad!
Monday April 26 1993 17:24, Brad Smalling wrote to (crosspost 1) All:
BS> For a VGA card these are the correct files but you can't just copy them
BS> back and expect it to work. You have to create a new WIN.COM file. Try
BS> the command (you will have to worry about what directories each file is in
BS> since I don't know your setup):
BS> COPY /B WIN.CNF+VGALOGO.LGO+VGALOGO.RLE WIN.COM
BS> (I grabbed this from _Supercharging Windows_ by Judd Robbins--great book)
BS> This is also how you can put your own logo into the Windows startup
BS> screen. An RLE file is just a specially compressed BMP file.
Brad,
What is the procedure used to 'specially' compress the BMP file? I would
love to use some of my BMP files I have created as a logo screen. Thanks
Chris
* Origin: chris.doelle.@f3333.n106.z1.fidonet.org (1:106/3333.26)
|
4873 | From: ferch@ucs.ubc.ca (Les Ferch)
Subject: Re: LCD Overhead Projectors
Organization: The University of British Columbia
Lines: 25
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: swiss.ucs.ubc.ca
In <1993Apr15.114208.2945@ug.eds.com> jan@camhpp12.mdcbbs.com (Jan Vandenbrande) writes:
>I am looking for one of those color LCD screens you
>place on an overhead projector and control the presentation
>with a Mac.
>Can you recommend me a particular brand?
>What price are we talking about?
For a good display, you *must* get an active matrix panel and a *very*
bright overhead projector designed to be used with an LCD panel (i.e.
stage must not get too hot). I tried out a Proxima Ovation unit and liked
it, but I needed a brighter projector (I used it with a 3M 920). It is
also too expensive for what you get, IMHO. Prices of active matrix panels
are rumoured to drop substantially sometime this year (something to do
with tarrifs being lifted I think).
In Canadian dollars, the Proxima Ovation models ranged in price from about
$5000 to $7000 and a good overhead projector about $1000 to $1500. For
that kind of money, you can get a brighter image from a three beam
projector, but sacrifice portability.
Oh yes, proper room lighting is extremely important, especially if you
want your audience to have enough light to read handouts and not have that
light wash out your display at the front of the room. Tricky to get right.
|
4874 | From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Subject: Re: Hamza Salah, the Humanist
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 8
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu
Mr. Salah, why are you such a homicidal racist? Do you feel this
same hatred towards Christans, or is it only Jews? Are you from
a family of racists? Did you learn this racism in your home? Or
are you a self-made bigot? How does one become such a racist? I
wonder what you think your racism will accomplish. Are you under
the impression that your racism will help bring peace in the mid-
east? I would like to know your thoughts on this.
|
4875 | From: hm@cs.brown.edu (Harry Mamaysky)
Subject: Re: From Israeli press. Madness.
In-Reply-To: jar2e@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU's message of Sat, 17 Apr 1993 18:16:47 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Brown University
Lines: 12
In article <C5n43z.Dq2@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> jar2e@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Virginia's Gentleman) writes:
This post has all the earmarks of a form program, where the user types in
a nationality or ethnicity and it fills it in in certain places in the story.
If this is true, I condemn it. If it's a fabrication, then the posters have
horrible morals and should be despised by everyone on tpm who values truth.
Jesse
Agreed.
Harry.
|
4876 | From: irfan@davinci.ece.wisc.edu (Irfan Alan)
Subject: A TREATISE ON THE MIRACLES OF MUHAMMAD SAW, PART-1
Organization: Univ. of Wisconsin-Madison; Electrical & Computer Engineering
Distribution: usa
Lines: 81
DROPLET VOL 1, No 11, Part 1
A D R O P L E T
From The Vast Ocean Of The Miraculous Qur'an
Translations from the Arabic and Turkish Writings of
Bediuzzaman Said Nursi, The Risale-i Noor
VOL 1, No 11, Part 1
------------------------------------------------------------------
NINETEENTH LETTER
MU'JIZAT-I AHMEDIYE RISALESI
(A TREATISE ON THE MIRACLES OF MUHAMMAD SAW)
(SAW: PEACE AND BLESSINGS BE UPON HIM)
In His Name (ALLAH) , Be He (ALLAH) Glorified!
There is Nothing But Glorifies His (ALLAH's) Praise.
In The Name Of Allah, The Compassionate, The Merciful
"He is who has sent His Messenger with
guidance and the religion of truth to make it
supreme over all religion: and sufficient is Allah
as a Witness. Muhammad is the Messenger of
Allah, and those who are with him are firm
against the unbelievers and merciful among
each other. You will see them bowing and
prostrating themselves, seeking Allah's grace
and His pleasure. Their mark is on their face
the sing of prostrafion; this is their similitude in
the Torah and Indgil." [the Our'an 48:28-29]
Since the Nineteenth and Thirhy-first Words
concerning the mission of Muhammad (SAW) prove his
prophethood with decisive evidences, we assign the
verification of that subject to those Words.
As a supplement to them, we will merely show here
in Nineteen Signs, some of the flashes of that great
truth.
FIRST SIGN: The Owner and Master of this universe
does everything with knowledge, disposes every affair
with wisdom, directs everything all-seeingly, treats
everything all-knowingly, and arranges in everything with
His will and wisdom such causes, purposes and uses that
are apparent to us. Since the One who creates knows,
surely the One who knows will speak, since He will
speak, surely He will speak to those who have
consciousness, thought, and speech. Since He will speak
to those who have thought, surely He will speak to
humankind, whose make-up and awareness are more
comprehensive of all conscious beings. Since He will
speak to humankind, surely He will speak to the most
perfect of mankind and those most worthy of address and
highest in morality, and who are qualified to guide
humanity; then He will certainly speak to Muhammad (SAW),
who, as friend and foe alike testify, is of the highest
character and morality, and who is obeyed by one fifth
of humanity, to whose spiritual rule half of the globe has
submitted, with the radiance of whose light has been
illumined the future of mankind for thirteen centuries, to
whom the believers, the luminous segment of humanity,
renew their oath of allegiance five times a day, for
whose happiness and peace they pray, for whom they call
down Allah's blessings and bear admiration and love in
their hearts.
Certainly, He will speak to Muhammad (SAW),
and Indeed He has done so; He will make him the
Messenger, and Indeed He has done so; He will make
him the guide for the rest of humanity, and Indeed He
has done so.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
To be continued In$a Allah.
Your Br. Irfan in Islam.
|
4877 | From: mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington)
Subject: Legitimate bawdy humor; was: Re: sex education - it's a joke !
Organization: AI Programs, University of Georgia, Athens
Lines: 28
In article <Apr.8.01.01.06.1993.28740@athos.rutgers.edu> Lubosh.Hanuska@anu.edu.au (ljh) writes:
>"Well, my son, the best advice I can give you is this: Eat a lot of
>carrots!"
>"Oh, do you really think that will work ?!? And should it be before or
>after intercourse?"
>"INSTEAD, my son, INSTEAD!"
...
>Disclaimer: As a single Catholic I didn't have any business to post this
>kind of joke to this group, so if you found it inappropriate [...]
But what was wrong with it? It won't tempt anyone to any kind of sin, as
far as I can tell. It doesn't belittle anyone. It does not substitute
offensiveness for humor (it's genuinely funny).
We shouldn't assume that _all_ jokes that mention sexuality are "dirty"
merely because so many are.
And we should never mistake prudery for spirituality. It can be the direct
opposite -- a symptom of the _lack_ of a healthy perspective on God's
creation.
--
:- Michael A. Covington internet mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : *****
:- Artificial Intelligence Programs phone 706 542-0358 : *********
:- The University of Georgia fax 706 542-0349 : * * *
:- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <><
|
4878 | From: pritchet@cs.scarolina.edu (Ronald W. Pritchett)
Subject: Removable Storage
Organization: USC Department of Computer Science
Distribution: comp
Lines: 16
We have a Quadra 700 with 170MB HD, but need to a lot of sound sampling
for auditory research. What would be the best type of removable media for
storing these audio clips?
Ron
==============================================================================
| 'They say I'm lazy, but |
| it takes all my time... |
| Life's been good to me so far!' -Joe Walsh |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Ron Pritchett Internet: pritchet@ash.cs.scarolina.edu |
| FidoNet: Ron Pritchett @ 1:376/74.0 |
==============================================================================
|
4879 | From: MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI (Marcus Lindroos INF)
Subject: Into Infinity?(WAS:Re: *Doppelganger* (was Re: Vulcan?)
In-Reply-To: sysmgr@king.eng.umd.edu's message of 15 Apr 1993 22:22:19 GMT
Organization: Abo Akademi University, Finland
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24
Lines: 36
In <1qkn6rINNett@mojo.eng.umd.edu> sysmgr@king.eng.umd.edu writes:
> In article <1993Apr15.170048.1@fnalf.fnal.gov>, higgins@fnalf.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes:
>
> >This was known as *Journey to the Far Side of the Sun* in the United
> >States and as *Doppelganger* in the U.K... Later, they went
> >on to do more live-action SF series: *UFO* and *Space: 1999*.
> >
> >The astronomy was lousy, but the lifting-body spacecraft, VTOL
> >airliners, and mighty Portugese launch complex were *wonderful* to
> >look at.
Exactly. Some of the SPACE:1999 effects remain first-rate even today.
> They recycled a lot of models and theme music for UFO. Some of the
> concepts even showed up in SPACE: 1999.
>
Later on, the Andersons tried to shed their reputation as creators of some
of the worst pseudo-scientific shows in TV history by flying "Into Infinity."
This was a one-off thing done as part of BBC's "educational SF" series "The
Day After Tomorrow." The Anderson episode dealt with a spaceship capable of
reaching the speed of light ("lightship Altares"), the four-man crew eventually
journeyed into a black hole and ended up on the far side of the galaxy (I
think). I saw this as a 9-year-old back in 1976 and liked it very much, but
then again I was a fan of SPACE:1999 so I guess I was easily satisfied in those
days:-)
---
Does anyone know if "Into Infinity" has been released on video? I have some
SPACE:1999 shows on VHS and know that Thunderbirds etc. also are available in
England.
MARCU$
>
> Software engineering? That's like military intelligence, isn't it?
> -- > SYSMGR@CADLAB.ENG.UMD.EDU < --
|
4880 | From: rash@access.digex.com (Wayne Rash)
Subject: Re: 17" monitor with RGB/sync to VGA ??
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 21
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.net
Keywords: RGB VGA 17"monitor
scanlonm@rimail.interlan.com (Michael Scanlon) writes:
>I don't know if this is an obvious question, but can any of the current
>batch of windows accelerator cards (diamond etc) be used to drive a monitor
>which has RGB and horizontal and vertical sync ( 5 BNC jacks altogether)
>connectors out the back?? I might be able to get ahold of a Raster
>Technologies 17" monitor (1510 ??)cheap and I was wondering if it was
>possible to connect it via an adapter (RGB to vga ??) to my Gateway, would
>I need different drivers etc.
>Thanks
>Mike Scanlon
>please reply to scanlon@interlan.com
You need a monitor cable that has a VGA connector on one end and five BNC
connectors on the other. I bought one from Nanao when I bought the Nanao
monitor I use, which also has five BNC connectors. Check with a computer
store that sells good monitors. Quite a few companies use that setup.
|
4881 | From: pharvey@quack.kfu.com (Paul Harvey)
Subject: The Magi of Matthew was The Jewish Discomfort With Jesus
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
Lines: 238
In article <1746.2BD37A66@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Carlson) writes:
> Since everywhere I look, Zoroaster is suggested as being a probable
> descendant of Daniel; suppose you prove he wasn't.
Ref: Encyclopedia of Religion, Mircea Eliade
MAGI:
[Sneak Preview: Later still, eschatology and apocalyptics were a fertile meeting
ground for Iranian and Judeo-Christian religions, as can be seen in the famous
_Oracles of Hystaspes_, a work whose Iranian roots are undeniable and which
most likely dates from the beginning of the Christian era, probably the
second century CE (Widengren, 1968). The Zoroastrian doctrine of the Savior of
the Future (Saoshyant) was the basis for the story of the coming of the Magi
to Bethlehem in the _Gospel of Matthew_ (2:1-12).]
The Old Persian word magu, rendered in Greek by magos, is of uncertain
etymology. It may originally have meant "member of the tribe," as in the
Avestan compound mogu-tbish ("hostile to a member of the tribe"). This meaning
would have been further resticted, among the Medes, to "member of the priestly
tribe" and perhaps to "priest" (Benveniste, 1938; Boyce, 1982). The term is
probably of Median origin, given that Herodotus mentions the "Magoi" as one of
the six tribes of the Medes.
For a variety of reasons we can consider the Magi to have been members of a
priestly tribe of Median origin in western Iran. Among the Persians, they were
responsible for liturgical functions, as well as for maintaining their
knowledge of the holy and the occult. Most likely, the supremacy of the Median
priesthood in western Iran became established during the time of the Median
monarchy that dominated the Persians from the end of the eighth century
through the first half of the sixth century BCE until the revolt of Cyrus the
Great (550 BCE). The Persians were indebted to the Medes for their political
and civil institutions as well. Even if hypotheses have been advanced
concerning the existence of Magi of Persian origin in the Achaemenid period
(Boyce, 1982), we must still maintain that they were of Median origin. This is
demonstrated by the eposide of the revolt of Gaumata the Magian, mentioned by
Darius I (522-486 BCE) in the inscription at Bisutun (Iran), as well as by
Greek sources. Indeed, Herodotus insists on the idea of the usurpatory power of
the Medes against the Persians through the conspiracy of the Magi.
The fact that the Magi may have been members of a tribe that handed down the
sacerdotal arts in a hereditary fashion naturally did not exclude the
possibility that some of them undertook secular prefessions. This seems to be
attested by the Elamite tablets at Persepolis.
There is a theses, put forth by Giuseppe Messina, that denies that the Magi
are members of an ethnic group by suggesting that they are simply members of
the priesthood - a priesthood of purely Zoroastrian origin. This thesis is
untenable; on the other hand, the hypothesis that their name is related to the
Avestan term magavan, derived from the Gathic maga (Vedic, magha, "gift"), is
not without foundation (Mole, 1963). The meaning of maga can probably be found,
in conformity with the Pahlavi tradition, within the context of the concept of
purity, or separation of the "mixture" of the two opposed principles of spirit
and matter. The maga, which has been erroneously interpreted as "chorus," from
the root mangh, which is said to mean "sing the magic song" (Nyberg, 1966) and
has been rendered simply by an expression like unio mystica, seems to be an
ecstatic condition that opens the mind to spiritual vision. In any case, though
there may be a relation between the Old Persian term magu and the Avestan terms
magavan and maga, we must maintain a clear distinction between the Magi and the
Avestan priesthood. The Avesta ignores the Median or Old Persian term, despite
a recent hypothesis proposed by H.W. Bailey; Old Persian inscriptions ignore
the Avestan term for "priest," athravan (Vedic, athravan), even if this is
perhaps present in an Achaeminid setting in the Elamite tablets of Persepolis
(Gershevitch, 1964).
The term magu has been present in Zoroastrianism throughout its history; the
Pahlavi terms mogh-mard and mobad represent its continuation. The latter in
particular derives from an older form, magupati ("head of the Magi"). During
the Sasanid period (third to seventh centuries CE), which saw the formation of
a hierarchically organized church, the title mobadan mobad ("the high priest of
high priests") came to be used to designate the summit of the ecclesiastical
hierarchy.
The Magi practiced consanguineous marriage, or khvaetvadatha (Av.; Pahl.,
khwedodah). They also performed a characteristic funeral rite: the exposure of
the corpse to animals and vultures to remove the flesh and thereby cleanse it.
The corpse was not supposed to decompose, lest it be contaminated by the demons
of putrefaction. This practice later became typical of the entire Zoroastrian
community and led to the rise of a complex funeral ritual in Iran and among the
Parsis in India. Stone towers, known as dakhmas, were built especially for this
rite. During the time of Herodotus the practice of exposure of the corpse was
in vogue only among the Magi; the Persians generally sprinkled the corpse with
wax, then buried it. The practice was widespread, however, among the peoples
of Central Asia.
The Magi were the technicians of and experts on worship: it was impossible to
offer sacrifices without the presence of a Magus. During the performance of a
ritual sacrifice, the Magus sang of the theogony (the Magi were possibly the
custodians of a tradition of sacred poetry, but we know nothing about the
relationship of this tradition to the various parts of the Avesta) and was
called upon to interpret dreams and to divine the future. The Magi were also
known for the practice of killing harmful, or "Ahrimanical," animals (khrafstra)
such as snakes and ants. They dressed in the Median style, wearing pants,
tunics, and coats with sleeves. They wore a characteristic head covering of
felt (Gr. tiara) with strips on the sides that could be used to cover the nose
and mouth during rituals to avoid contaminating consecrated objects with their
breath (Boyce, 1982). The color of these caps, in conformity with a tradition
that is probably of Indo-European origin, according to Georges Dumezil, was
that of the priesthood: white.
In all likelihood, during the Achaemenid period the Magi were not in
possession of a well-defined body of doctrine, and it is probable that they
gradually adopted Zoroastrianism; they were most likely a clergy consisting of
professional priests who were not tied to a rigid orthodoxy but were naturally
inclined to eclecticism and syncretism. Nonetheless, they must have been
jealous guardians of the patrimony of Zorastrian traditions. By virtue of this
they were the educators of the royal princes. The wisest of them was responsible
for teaching the prince the "magic of Zarathushtra, son of Horomazes" and thus
the "cult of the gods." Magi who excelled in other virtues were entrusted with
the education of the prince so that he would learn to be just, courageous, and
master of himself.
During the Achaemenid period the Magi maintained a position of great
influence, although they were certainly subordinate to the emperor. Despite
several dramatic events such as the massacre they suffered after the death of
Gaumata the Magian - in which, according to Herodotus (who calls himself
Smerdis), the Persians killed a large number of Magi to avenge the usurpation -
the Magi nevertheless managed to maintain their influence at court in Media,
in Persia, and in the various regions of the empire where they were stationed
as a consequence of the Persian civilian and military administration.
No priesthood of antiquity was more famous than that of the Magi. They were
renowned as followers of Zarathushtra (Zoroaster); as the teachers of some of
the greatest Greek thinkers (Pythagoras, Democritus, Plato); as the wise men
who arrived, guided by a star, at the manger of the newborn savior in
Bethlehem; and as the propagators of a cult of the sun in India. But they were
also known as the Chaldeans, the priesthood of Babylon, known for its occultism;
this was perhaps the reason that the term magos had a pejorative sense in Greek,
like "goes," "expert in the magic arts" (Bidez and Cumont, 1938). Indeed, the
Chaldeans were experts in all types of magical arts, especially astrology, and
had a reputation for wisdom as well as knowledge.
To understand the reasons for such various and sometimes discordant views, it
is necessary to distinguish between the Magi of Iran proper and the so-called
western Magi, who were later hellenized. In the Achaemenid period both must
have been at least in part Zoroastrian, but the western Magi (those of the
Iranian diaspora in Asia Minor, Syria, Mesopotamia, and Armenia), who came in
contact with diverse religious traditions, must have, sooner or later and in
varying degrees, been influenced by syncretic concepts.
The Greeks were familiar with both kinds of Magi and, depending on their
varying concerns, would emphasize one or the other aspect of them. Classical
historians and geographers, including Herodotus and Strabo, document their
customs, while the philosophers dwell above all on their doctrines: dualism,
belief in the hereafter, Magian cosmology and cosmogony, and their theology
and eschatology. Those sources most interested in the doctrines of the Magi
even speak of Zarathushtra as a Magus. In doing so they are repeating what the
Magi themselves said from the Median and Achaemenid periods, when they adopted
Zoroastrianism. At that time they embraced Zarathushtra as one of their own and
placed themselves under his venerable name.
Zoroastrianism had already undergone several profound transformations in the
eastern community by the time of the Acheamenids and was already adapting those
elements of the archaic religion that refused to die. It has been said quite
often, in an attempt to characterize the precise role of the Magi in the
Zoroastrian tradition, that the Vendidad (from vi-daevo-data, "the law-abjuring
daivas"), part of the Avesta, should be attributed to them. (This collection of
texts from various periods is primarily concerned with purificatory rules and
practices.) Nonetheless, the hypothesis is hardly plausible, since the first
chapter of the Vendidad - a list of sixteen lands created by Ahura Mazda, the
supreme god of Zoroastrianism, but contaminated by an attack by Ahriman (Pahl.;
Gathic-Avestan, Angra Mainyu), the other supreme god and the ultimate source of
all evil and suffering - does not mention western Iran, Persia, or Media (the
land of Ragha mentioned in the text cannot be Median Raghiana). Furthermore, it
has been noted (Gershevitch, 1964) that if the authors had been Magi the
absence of any reference to western Iranian institutions, including their own
priesthood, would be very strange.
The Magi were above all the means by which the Zoroastrian tradition and the
corpus of the Avesta have been transmitted to us, from the second half of the
first millennium BCE on. This has been their principal merit. We can attribute
directly to the Magi the new formulation that Iranian dualism assumed, known to
us especially from Greek sources and, in part, from the Pahlavi literature of
the ninth and tenth centuries CE. According to this formulation, the two poles
of the dualism are no longer, as in the Gathas, Spenta Mainyu ("beneficent
spirit") and Angra Mainyu ("hostile spirit") but Ahura Mazda himself and Angra
Mainyu (Gershevitch, 1964). [See Ahura Mazda and Angra Mainyu.] This trans-
formation was of immense consequence for the historical development of Zoro-
astrianism and was most likely determined by the contact of the Magi with the
Mesopotamian religious world. In this new dualism - which was that later known
to the Greeks (Aristotle, Eudemus of Rhodes, Theopompus, and others) - we can
see the affirmation of a new current of thought within Zoroastrianism, to which
we give the name Zurvanism. [See Zurvanism.]
Thanks to their adherence to Zoroastrianism, the Magi played an enormously
important role in the transmission of Zarathushtra's treachings, as well as in
the definition of the new forms that these would assume historically. Their
natural propensity to eclecticism and syncretism also helped the diffusion of
Zoroastrian ideas in the communities of the Iranian diaspora. The Greeks began
to study their doctrines and to take an interest in them (Xanthus of Lydia,
Hermodorus, Aristotle, Theopompus, Hermippus, Dinon), even writing treatises
on the Persian religion, of which only the titles and a few fragments have
survived. In the Hellenistic period, the Magi were seen as a secular school of
wisdom, and writings on magic, astrology, and alchemy were lent the authority
of such prestigious names as Zarathushtra, Ostanes, and Hystaspes, forming an
abundant apocryphal literature. (Bidez and Cumont, 1938).
Later still, eschatology and apocalyptics were a fertile meeting
ground for Iranian and Judeo-Christian religions, as can be seen in the famous
_Oracles of Hystaspes_, a work whose Iranian roots are undeniable and which
most likely dates from the beginning of the Christian era, probably the
second century CE (Widengren, 1968). The Zoroastrian doctrine of the Savior of
the Future (Saoshyant) was the basis for the story of the coming of the Magi
to Bethlehem in the _Gospel of Matthew_ (2:1-12). [See Saoshyant.]
The Sasanid period saw the Magi once again play a determining role in the
religious history of Iran. Concerned to win back the western Magi (de Menasce,
1956), and eager to consolidate Zoroastrianism as the national religion of
Iran, the priests of Iranian sanctuaries in Media and Persia were able to
establish a true state church, strongly hierarchical and endowed with an
orthodoxy based on the formation of a canon of scriptures. The leading figures
in the development of a state religion and of Zoroastrian orthodoxy were Tosar
and Kerder, the persecutors of Mani in the third century.
SAOSHYANT:
The Avestan term saoshyant ("future benefactor"; MPers., soshans) designates
the savior of the world, who will arrive at a future time to redeem humankind.
The concept of the future savior is one of the fundamental notions of Zoro-
astrianism, together with that of dualism; it appears as early as in the Gathas.
Zarathushtra (Zoroaster), as the prophet of the religion, is himself a Sao-
shyant, one who performs his works for the Frashokereti, the end of the present
state of the world, when existence will be "rehabilitated" and "made splendid."
[See Frashokereti]
Later Zoroastrian doctrine developed this notion into a true eschatological
myth and expanded the number of Saoshyants from one to three. All the saviors
are born from the seed of Zarathushtra, which is preserved through the ages in
Lake Kansaoya (identified with present-day Lake Helmand, in Seistan, Iran),
protected by 99,999 fravashis, or guardian spirits. The greatest of the awaited
Saoshyants, the victorious Astvatereta ("he who embodies truth"), the son of
the Vispataurvairi ("she who conquers all"), is the third, who will make
existence splendid; he appears in Yashts 19. Upon his arrival humankind will
no longer be subject to old age, death, or corruption, and will be granted
unlimited power. At that time the dead will be resurrected, and the living will
be immortal and indestructable. Brandishing the weapon with which he kills the
powerful enemies of the world of truth (that is, the world of the spirit, and
of asha), Astvatereta will look upon the whole of corporeal existence and
render it imperishable. He and his comrades will engage in a great battle with
the forces of evil, which will be destroyed.
The name Astvatereta is clearly the result of theological speculation
(Kellens, 1974), as are those of his two brothers, Ukhshyatereta, "he who makes
truth grow," and Ukhshyatnemah, "he who makes reverence grow"; the names of the
three virgins (Yashts 13) who are impregnated with the seed of Zarathushtra
when they bathe in Lake Kansaoya and give birth to the Saoshyants, are equally
speculative. Each of these Saoshyants will arrive at the beginning of a
millennium, initiating a new age and a new cycle of existence; Astvatereta will
appear in the third and final millennium to save mankind.
The doctrine of the future savior had already taken shape in the Archaemenid
period (sixth to fourth century BCE). It was not, perhaps the principal element
in the formation of the messianic idea, but it was certainly a determining
factor, one that enjoyed great success in the Hellenistic period beyond the
confines of the Iranian world. A similar concept, that of the future Buddha,
Maitreya, was most likely indebted to it, and Christian messianism can trace
its roots to the same source.
|
4882 | From: randy@msc.cornell.edu (Randy Ellingson)
Subject: ISA bus: SCSI or IDE??!!
Reply-To: randy@msc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University
Lines: 38
Wow, you guys are really going wild on this IDE vs. SCSI thing, and I think
it's great!
However, I think that some people (such as myself) would benefit from answers
to the simple(?) question: Which would YOU choose, and why?
Like lots of people, I'd really like to increase my data transfer rate from
the hard drive. Right now I have a 15ms 210Mb IDE drive (Seagate 1239A), and
what I would say is a standard (not special, no cache I believe) IDE controller
card on my ISA 486-50.
I'm currently thinking about adding another HD, in the 300Mb to 500Mb range.
And I'm thinking hard (you should hear those gears a-grinding in my head)
about buying a SCSI drive (SCSI for the future benefit). I believe I'm getting
something like 890Kb/sec transfer right now (according to NU).
How would this
number compare if I bought the state-of-the-art SCSI card for my ISA PC, and
the state-of-the-art SCSI hard drive (the wailing-est system I could hope for)?
Obviously money factors into this choice as well as any other, but what would
YOU want to use on your ISA system? And how much would it cost?
Along those lines, what kind of transfer rate could I see with my IDE HD's if I
were to buy the top-of-the-line IDE caching controller for my 200Mb, 15ms HD?
And how much would it cost?
I actually have a PAS-16, and could (what a waste I guess it would be...) hook
up a SCSI HD through it's SCSI port which yields an optimum of 690Kb/sec.
Actually, I have a borrowed 12ms Fujitsu HD hooked up through it now (and
own the Trantor HD drivers for the PAS-16 SCSI port). Is this SCSI port a
SCSI-2 port? How could I tell? Is the Fujitsu 2623A a SCSI-2? Are all SCSI
HD's SCSI-2?
Thanks for any comments.
Randy
|
4883 | From: rhorwell@crab.atc.boeing.com (Roland Faragher-Horwell,crab)
Subject: Re: What is " Volvo " ?
Reply-To: rhorwell@atc.boeing.com
Organization: Boeing Computer Services
Lines: 46
In article 21071@sernews.raleigh.ibm.com, mperry@vnet.ibm.com (Mark Perry) writes:
>>Hardly a good reason, most US cars do too - and plenty of people
>>buy them (in the US anyway :-). I think the 850 is quite a good
>>looking car - unlike the US influenced 740!
>>
>>kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch
>
>I don't think it's so easy to tell the 850 from any other 7 or 9 series unless
>you look real close. I really do think Volvo's are all dogs though beacuse they
>are 1.Agricultural
While previous Volvos have been essentially very fast tractors, the 3,4 and 8 series
are far from 'agricultural' in design or execution (how many FWD tractors have you
seen?).
>2.Have godlier than thou advertising.
You state this like it is a bad thing. :^) (remember, car companies use
ad agencies - they don't do their own ads!)
>3.are part of Renault.
Is this true? I know that they had done joint ventures with Renault, but I haven't
heard about their subsumption into Renault - does this mean that the French Government
now owns Volvo? - anyway, Renault makes some very nice cars, they just don't sell
'em in N. America!
>
>However... One thing that I do think is in their favour is that they are
>immediately recognisable as a VOLVO and that is not something you can say
>about most Japanese manufacturers and Ford. Saab also have a strong corparate
>look which like it or not is what I thing all car makers could aim for to
>make life a little more varied.
Here! Here!
>
>
>mperry@vnet.ibm.com
Roland
rhorwell@atc.boeing.com
|
4884 | From: jayne@mmalt.guild.org (Jayne Kulikauskas)
Subject: RE: Does God love you?
Organization: Kulikauskas home
Lines: 32
davem@bnr.ca (Dave Mielke) writes,
> However, God's love is qualified. The Bible says:
>
> The way of the wicked is an abomination unto the LORD: but he
> loveth him that followeth after righteousness. Proverbs 15:9
>
> For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of
> the ungodly shall perish. Psalm 1:6
I am extremely uncomfortable with this way of phrasing it. God's love
is unconditional, unqualified, unfathomable. We are capable of
rejecting God's love but He never fails to love us.
These verses do not show that God's love is qualified but rather that He
is opposed to evil.
I am uncomfortable with the tract in general because there seems to be
an innappropriate emphasis on Hell. God deserves our love and worship
because of who He is. I do not like the idea of frightening people into
accepting Christ.
I see evangelism as combining a way of living that shows God's love with
putting into words and explaining that love. Preaching the Gospel
without living the Gospel is no better than being a noisy gong or a
clanging cymbal.
Here's a question: How many of you are Christians because you are
afraid of going to Hell? How many are responding to God's love?
Jayne Kulikauskas/jayne@mmalt.guild.org
|
4885 | From: timmbake@mcl.ucsb.edu (Bake Timmons)
Subject: Re: Amusing atheists and anarchists
Lines: 117
mccullou@whipple.cs.wisc.edu writes:
>My turn
>I went back and reread your post. All you did is attack atheism, and
>say that agnosticism wasn't as funny as atheism. Nowhere does that
>imply that you are agnostic, or weak atheist. As most people who post
>such inflammatory remarks are theists, it was a reasonable assumption.
Sorry, you're right. I did not clearly state it.
>>Rule *2: Condescending to the population at large (i.e., theists) will not
>>win many people to your faith anytime soon. It only ruins your credibility.
>How am I being condescending to the population at large? I am stating
>something that happened to be true for a long time, I couldn't believe
>that people actually believed in this god idea. It was an alien concept
>to me. I am not trying to win people to my faith as you put it. I have
>no faith. Religion was a non issue when I had the attitude above because
>it never even occurred to me to believe. Atheist by default I guess you
>could say.
The most common form of condescending is the rational versus irrational
attitude. Once one has accepted the _assumption_ that there is no god(s),
and then consider other faiths to be irrational simply because their
assumption(s) contradict your assumption, then I would say there's a
lack of consistency here.
Now I know you'll get on me about faith. If the _positive_ belief that God
does not exist were a closed, logical argument, why do so many rational
people have problems with that "logic"?
But you, probably like me, seem to be a soft atheist. Sorry for the flamage.
>The line about atheists haveing something up their sleeves is what seemed
>to imply that. Sorry, been reading too much on the CLIPPER project lately,
>and the paranoia over there may have seeped in some.
;) What is the CLIPPER project BTW?
>>Rule #4: Don't mix apples with oranges. How can you say that the
>>extermination by the Mongols was worse than Stalin? Khan conquered >people
>>unsympathetic to his cause. That was atrocious. But Stalin killed >millions of
>>his own people who loved and worshipped _him_ and his atheist state!! >>How can
>>anyone be worse than that?
>Many rulers have done similar things in the past, only Stalin did it
>when there was plenty of documentation to afix the blame on him. The
>evidence is that some of the early European rulers ruled with an iron
>fist much like Stalin's. You threw in numbers, and I am sick of hearing
>about Stalin as an example because the example doesn't apply. You
>managed to get me angry with your post because it appeared to attack
>all forms of atheism.
It might have appeared to attack atheism in general, but its point was
that mass killing happens for all sorts of reasons. People will hate who
they will and will wave whatever flag to justify it, be it cross or
hammer&sickle. The Stalin example _is_ important not only because it's
still a widely unappreciated era that people want to forget but also
because people really did love him and his ideas, even after all that he
had wrought.
>The evidence I am referring to is more a lack of evidence than negative
>evidence. Say I claim there are no pink crows. I have never seen
>a pink crow, but that doesn't mean it couldn't exist. But, this person
>here claims that there are pink crows, even though he admits he hasn't
>been able to capture one or get a photo, or find one with me etc.
>In a sense that is evidence to not believe in the existence of pink crows.
>That is what I am saying when I look at the evidence. I look at the
>suppossed evidence for a deity, show how it is flawed, and doesn't show
>what theists want it to show, and go on.
First, all the pink crows/unicorns/elves arguments in the world will not
sway most people, for they simply do not accept the analogy. Why?
One of the big reasons is that many, many people want something
beyond this life. You can pretend that they don't want this, but I for
one can accept it and even want it myself sometimes.
And there is nothing unique in this example of why people want a God.
Can love as a truth be proven, logically?
>>themselves, namely, a god or gods. So in principle it's hard to see how
>>theists are necessarily arrogant.
>Makes no sense to me. They seem arrogant to make such a claim to me.
>But my previous refutation still stands, and I believe there may be
>another one on the net.
John the Baptist boasted of Jesus to many people. I find it hard to see
how that behavior is arrogant at all. Many Christians I know also boast
in this way, but I still do not necessarily see it as arrogance. Of course,
I do know arrogant Christians, doctors, and teachers as well. Technically,
you might consider the person who originally made a given claim to be arrogant,
Jesus, for instance.
>Are you talking about all atheism or just strong atheism? If you are
>talking about weak atheism which I believe in, then I refuse such a claim.
>Atheism is a lack of belief. I used good ol' Occam's Razor to make the
>final rejection of a deity, in that, as I see things, even if I
>present the hypothesises in an equal fasion, I find the theist argument
>not plausible.
I speak against strong atheism. I also often find that the evidence
supporting a faith is very subjective, just as, say, the evidence supporting
love as truth is subjective.
>I believe I answered that. I apologize for the (as you stated) incorrect
>assumption on your theism, but I saw nothing to indicate that you
>were an agnostic, only that you were just another newbie Christian
>on the net trying to get some cheap shots in.
No apology necessary. :)
--
Bake Timmons, III
-- "...there's nothing higher, stronger, more wholesome and more useful in life
than some good memory..." -- Alyosha in Brothers Karamazov (Dostoevsky)
|
4886 | From: cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb)
Subject: Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 39
In <11825@vice.ICO.TEK.COM> bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine) writes:
>In article <C5Jxru.2t8@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike
Cobb) writes:
>>What do you base your belief on atheism on? Your knowledge and reasoning?
>>COuldn't that be wrong?
>>
> Actually, my atheism is based on ignorance. Ignorance of the
> existence of any god. Don't fall into the "atheists don't believe
> because of their pride" mistake.
How do you know it's based on ignorance, couldn't that be wrong? Why would it
be wrong
to fall into the trap that you mentioned?
Also, if I may, what the heck where we talking about and why didn't I keep
some comments on there to see what the line of thoughts were?
MAC
>/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
>Bob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM
>They said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,
>and sank Manhattan out at sea.
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
--
****************************************************************
Michael A. Cobb
"...and I won't raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois
class to pay for my programs." Champaign-Urbana
-Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu
With new taxes and spending cuts we'll still have 310 billion dollar deficits.
|
4887 | From: elee969@rosie.uh.edu (Brown, William J.)
Subject: Re: Questions about Windows NT. Help!
Keywords: Windows NT, unix, sun sparc
Organization: University of Houston
Lines: 42
NNTP-Posting-Host: rosie.uh.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
In article <1993Apr19.154349.10382@cfmu.eurocontrol.be>, rajiev@cfmu.eurocontrol.be (Rajiev Gupta) writes...
>In article <C562Cq.FC7@ms.uky.edu> shan@ms.uky.edu (Minghua SHAN) writes:
>>
...stuff deleted
>>
>>1. Does Windows NT run on Sun Sparc Server 490?
>>2. If the answer to question 1 is yes, does it run unix applications
>> (such as SAS for unix).
>>3. Is Windows NT a multiuser OS?
>>4. When will Windows NT be released?
>>5. Is there any telephone number that I can call and get more
>> info on Win NT?
>>
>>Thank you.
>>
>>Minghua Shan
>
>As far as I have read WIN NT will be supported on Intel, DEC ALPHA and the MIPS R4000
>series of processors only. I do remember though reading a rumour about Sparc support
>sometime in the future. I am not sure what you mean by running "unix applications".
>You would have to have SAS for WIN NT (or maybe SAS for WIN16 etc). I have read
>that MS will anounce avalaibility of WIN NT by end of May 93 (Comdex Spring). Hope
>this helps.
>
>Rajiev Gupta
>
>--
>Rajiev GUPTA Eurocontrol - CFMU Disclaimer:
>rajiev@cfmu.eurocontrol.be Rue de la Loi 72 These are *my* views,
>Tel: +32 2 729 33 12 B-1040 BRUXELLES not my companies.
>Fax: +32 2 729 32 16 Belgium
According to the April issue of PC Magazine (pg. 139), and I quote,
"Eventually, Windows NT is likely to be ported to every successful RISC
architecture. PowerPC and HP's PA-RISC are the two most likely candidates,
with SPARC somewhat less likely because of Sun's relatively strong UNIX
software base."
later
bill
|
4888 | From: howland@noc2.arc.nasa.gov (Curt Howland)
Subject: Re: What is it with Cats and Dogs ???!
Organization: NASA Science Internet Project Office
Lines: 29
In article <gate.3gPD2B1w165w@ryang1.pgh.pa.us>,
ryang@ryang1.pgh.pa.us (Robert H. Yang) writes:
|> Hi,
|>
|> Sorry, just feeling silly.
|>
|> Rob
No need to appologise, as a matter of fact
this reminds me to bring up something I
have found consistant with dogs-
Most of the time, they do NOT like having
me and my bike anywhere near them, and will
chase as if to bite and kill.
An instructor once said it was because the
sound from a bike was painfull to their
ears. As silly as this seams, no other options
have arrizen.
net.wisdom?
---
Curt Howland "Ace" DoD#0663 EFF#569
howland@nsipo.nasa.gov '82 V45 Sabre
Meddle not in the afairs of Wizards,
for it makes them soggy and hard to re-light.
|
4889 | From: lei@rtsg.mot.com (Peter P. Lei)
Subject: DOS 6 vfintd.386 and Windows sys.ini
Nntp-Posting-Host: accord4
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Lines: 11
Does anyone know what the vfintd.386 device is used for in windows 3.1?
It's under the [386enh] section as
device=c:\dos\vfintd.386
After upgrading to dos 6 on several machines (different types), some include
it, some don't.
Any ideas?
pl
|
4890 | Organization: Penn State University
From: Robbie Po <RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Devils and Islanders tiebreaker????
Lines: 14
In article <C5LDI2.77u@odin.corp.sgi.com>, enolan@sharkbite.esd.sgi.com (Ed
Nolan) says:
>If the Islanders beat the Devils tonight, they would finish with
>identical records. Who's the lucky team that gets to face the Penguins
>in the opening round? Also, can somebody list the rules for breaking
>ties.
As I recall, the Penguins and Devils tied for third place last year
with identical records, as well. Poor Devils -- they always get screwed.
Yet, they should put a scare into Pittsburgh. They always do! Pens in 7.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
** Robbie Po ** PGH PENGUINS!!! "It won't be easy, but it
Contact for the '93-'94 '91 STANLEY CUP will have greater rewards.
Penn State Lady Lions '92 CHAMPIONS Mountains and Valleys are
rap115@psuvm.psu.edu 11 STRAIGHT WINS! better than nothing at all!"
|
4891 | From: banschbach@vms.ocom.okstate.edu
Subject: Re: diet for Crohn's (IBD)
Lines: 34
Nntp-Posting-Host: vms.ocom.okstate.edu
Organization: OSU College of Osteopathic Medicine
Distribution: usa
In article <1r6g8fINNe88@ceti.cs.unc.edu>, jge@cs.unc.edu (John Eyles) writes:
>
> A friend has what is apparently a fairly minor case of Crohn's
> disease.
>
> But she can't seem to eat certain foods, such as fresh vegetables,
> without discomfort, and of course she wants to avoid a recurrence.
>
> Her question is: are there any nutritionists who specialize in the
> problems of people with Crohn's disease ?
>
> (I saw the suggestion of lipoxygnase inhibitors like tea and turmeric).
>
> Thanks in advance,
> John Eyles
All your friend really has to do is find a Registered Dietician(RD). While
most work in hospitals and clinics, many major cities will have RD's who
are in "private practice" so to speak. Many physicans will refer their
patients with Crohn's disease to RD's for dietary help. If you can get
your friend's physician to make a referral, medical insurance should pay for
the RD's services just like the services of a physical therapist. The
better medical insurance plans will cover this but even if your friend's
plan doesn't, it would be well worth the cost to get on a good diet to
control the intestinal discomfort and help the intestinal lining heal.
Crohn's disease is an inflammatory disease of the intestinal lining and
lipoxygenase inhibitors may help by decreasing leukotriene formation but
I'm not aware of tea or turmeric containing lipoxygenase inhibitors. For
bad inflammation, steroids are used but for a mild case, the side effects
are not worth the small benefit gained by steroid use. Upjohn is developing
a new lipoxygenase inhibitor that should greatly help deal with
inflammatory diseases but it's not available yet.
Marty B.
|
4892 | From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)
Subject: Re: The Inimitable Rushdie
Organization: Boston University Physics Department
Lines: 27
In article <1qlb7oINN684@shelley.u.washington.edu>
jimh@carson.u.washington.edu (James Hogan) writes:
>20:52 P.S.T. I come to my senses and accept the all-knowing
>wisdom and power of the Quran and Allah. Not only that, but Allah
>himself drops by to congratulate me on my wise choice. Allah rolls a
>few bones and we get down. Then Allah gets out the Crisco, bends
>over, and invites me to take a spin around the block. Wow.
>20:56 P.S.T. I realize that maybe Allah is looking for more of a
>commitment than I'm ready for, so I say "Man, I've got some
>programming to do. Gotta go. I'll call you."
>20:59 P.S.T Thinking it over, I renounce Islam.
What loyalty!
Jim, it seems you've been reading a little too much Russell Hoban
lately. As Hemingway said, my imitators always imitate the _bad_
aspects of my writing. Hoban would, no doubt, say the same here.
Gregg
|
4893 | From: mikey@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Strider)
Subject: Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH! NO SURVIVORS!!!
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Lines: 28
NNTP-Posting-Host: louie.cc.utexas.edu
irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes:
:cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
:>mfrhein@wpi.WPI.EDU (Michael Frederick Rhein) writes:
:>>
:>> As someone else has pointed out, why would the stove be in use on a warm
:>> day in Texas.
:>
:>Do YOU eat all your food cold?
:
:Ever hear of electric ovens or microwaves? Very popular.
:Electric stoves outside metro-areas especially.
Hey, Einstein, ever tried to use an electric stove or microwave WITHOUT
ELECTRICITY? It's been shut off for weeks now, courtesy of your local FBI
assault squad.
Now, are you going to put your foot in your mouth or shall I get a crowbar
and assist you?
Mike Ruff
--
- This above all, to thine own S T R I D E R mikey@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
- self be true. --Polonius * * ***** ** * * **** ***** *** * *
Those who would sacrifice essential * * * * * * * * * * ** *
liberties for a little temporary * * * **** * * **** * * * * *
safety deserve neither liberty * * * * * * * * * * * **
nor safety. --B. Franklin **** * * * **** **** * *** * *
|
4894 | From: ivancich@eecs.umich.edu (Eric Ivancich)
Subject: Re: 14" monitors
In-Reply-To: fredm@media.mit.edu's message of Wed, 31 Mar 1993 20:39:45 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Department
Distribution: na
Lines: 37
In article <1993Mar31.203945.8757@news.media.mit.edu> fredm@media.mit.edu (Fred G Martin) writes:
[part of posting removed]
* the Sony CPD-1304 has better video circuitry than either of the
other two monitors. It can display Apple 640x480, VGA 640x480, VGA
800x600 (though this has 56 Hz flicker), and Apple 832x624 (75 Hz
refresh: no flicker at all). It might be able to display Apple's
1024x768, but I'm not sure about this, and the pixels would be real
small anyway so it might not be that useful.
Note that with either Sony monitor, you will need the proper adapter,
which both connects the video signals properly, but also informs the
Macintosh video hardware of which display mode to use.
[part of posting removed]
--
Fred Martin | fredm@media.mit.edu | (617) 253-7143 | 20 Ames St. Rm. E15-301
Epistemology and Learning Group, MIT Media Lab | Cambridge, MA 02139 USA
I'm assuming that the cabling tells the Mac, at startup, what kind of
monitor is connected. Now I think I've seen ads in popular Mac
magazines for products (I'm not sure if it's just a monitor, just a
video card, or a package of both) that allow you to change resolutions
on the fly (w/o restarting the Mac).
If you were to buy a 1304, would it be possible to switch back and
forth between Apple 640x480 and Apple 832x624 without restarting the
Mac? Is this strictly a hardware startup function, or can software
intervene, or does the Mac hardware occasionally probe the cable
setting and switch automatically?
Thanks,
Eric
(ivancich@eecs.umich.edu)
|
4895 | From: klute@tommy.informatik.uni-dortmund.de (Rainer Klute)
Subject: Re: Is it just me, or is this newsgroup dead?
Organization: CS Department, Dortmund University, Germany
Lines: 21
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: tommy.informatik.uni-dortmund.de
In article <930419000332.60e01d81@TGV.COM>, mahan@TGV.COM (Patrick L.
Mahan) writes:
|> #
|> # I've gotten very few posts on this group in the last couple days. (I
|> # recently added it to my feed list.) Is it just me, or is this group
|> # near death?
|> #
|>
|> Seen from the mailing list side, I'm getting about the right amount of
|> traffic.
And seen from my point of view, I get far too much articles to keep up with
them. I am lucky if I can scan through the subjects from time to time.
--
Dipl.-Inform. Rainer Klute I R B : immer richtig beraten
Univ. Dortmund, IRB
Postfach 500500 |)|/ Tel.: +49 231 755-4663
D-W4600 Dortmund 50 |\|\ Fax : +49 231 755-2386
new address after June 30th: Univ. Dortmund, D-44221 Dortmund
|
4896 | From: jonathan@comp.lancs.ac.uk (Mr J J Trevor)
Subject: [Genesis/MegaDrive] Games for sale/trade
Organization: Department of Computing at Lancaster University, UK.
Lines: 23
I have the following Genesis/Megadrive games for sale or trade for other
Genesis/MD (or SNES games). All games will work with both US and UK
machines (50 or 60Hz) except where stated and all are boxed with
instructions
D&D Warriors of the Eternal Sun
Outlander
Death Duel
Chakan the Forever man
Wonder Boy in Monster Land
A.Sennas Super Monaco GP 2 (50Hz only)
Ill accept US$ or UK sterling.
Make me an offer!
Cheers
Jonathan
--
___________
|onathan Phone: +44 524 65201 x3793 Address:Department of Computing
'-'________ Fax: +44 524 381707 Lancaster University
E-mail: jonathan@comp.lancs.ac.uk Lancaster, Lancs., U.K.
|
4897 | From: lian@mips.com (Jeff Lian)
Subject: Monitor for LCIII
Keywords: LCIII monitor
Organization: MIPS Technologies, Inc.
Lines: 27
NNTP-Posting-Host: arctic.mti.sgi.com
Originator: lian@arctic.mti.sgi.com
Hi folks
I'm planning to buy a LCIII but need advice on choosing a monitor.
What do people recommend for a decent 14"/15" monitor?
I'v looked at some ads and the spec for NEC 4FG/4FGe and the price is
within my budget, but could LCIII be able to use the various resolutions
available on 4FG (specifically the 1024x768 resolution)? Does LCIII only
support one resolution?
Also any recommendations for a reliable mail order place for LCIII or
monitors? Does anyone have experience with the following mail-order places?
SYEX EXPRESS (Houston, Tx)
USA FLEX (Bloomingdale, Il)
Thanks,
jeff
--
Jeff Lian lian@mti.sgi.com - or - lian@mips.com
MIPS Technologies, Inc.
2011 N. Shoreline Boulevard
P.O. Box 7311 M/S 10L-175
|
4898 | From: franke@andrej.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (Christian Franke)
Subject: Info about Fast Centronics, ECP, EPP
Organization: Rechnerbetrieb Informatik - RWTH Aachen
Lines: 25
NNTP-Posting-Host: andrej.informatik.rwth-aachen.de
Keywords: Centronics, ECP, EPP
Hello,
in the EDN magazine I found a note about the new C&T 82C735
I/O Controller. It support several parallel port protocols,
including
Fast Centronics
Microsoft Enhanced Capabilities Protocol (ECP)
Enhanced Parallel Port (EPP)
The last two handle data rates up to 2Mbytes/sec.
Is there any specification about these protocols available?
Regards,
Christian Franke
Aachen University of Technology
Informatik I
Ahornstrasse 55
W-5100 Aachen
Germany
Tel.: +49.241.80-21111
E-Mail: franke@informatik.rwth-aachen.de
|
4899 | From: zrepachol@cc.curtin.edu.au (Paul Repacholi)
Subject: What is going on?...
Lines: 26
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Distribution: inet
In article <1qhc2p$8d8@transfer.stratus.com>, cme@ellisun.sw.stratus.com (Carl Ellison) writes:
> In article <1993Apr14.120229.15878@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> rwebb@nyx.cs.du.edu (Russell Webb) writes:
...
> Call me paranoid, but this is the same kind of scare story which Dorothy
> Denning was citing while calling for the limitation of cryptography.
>
> I doubt that DD is behind this --
>
> but I suspect that the FBI (and maybe NSA) are behind DD and those agencies
> could easily be mounting a nationwide campaign (with our tax dollars?) to
> build up public outcry against digital communication -- especially against
> unbreakable, encrypted communication.
>
>
> What's going on here??
>
Haven't you read any of Noam Chomsky's works? A widely used information net
outside the control of the 'right people' is unthinkable. Hundreds of billions
of dollars will be spent to wipe it out, sorry, 'regulate and order it' once
the major media and poitical powers wake up to the efect it can have.
If you can't be bothered reading, get the video "Manufacturing Consent".
~Paul
|
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