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Holy oven spring, Batman!! So, after yesterday's success I tried again with the 123 sourdough recipe but this time I used half freshly ground whole wheat (that I soaked for about 12 hours) and half bread flour. I basically did everything the same as yesterday, but this time I proofed it in a flour covered kitchen towel...	Jessica, all I can say is I Jessica, all I can say is I hope it tastes as good as it looks, because it looks great.
Hello from British Columbia in Canada I am on a quest to reproduce a malted sourdough bread we had in Reykjavik last year at the Four Seasons hotel. It simply was some of the best bread I've had in my life. So far, I've had no luck. Any pointers would be much appreciated	From one BCer to another, From one BCer to another, Welcome! Afraid I can't help you with the malted sourdough, however. Maybe someone else can.
Have been trying Ken Forkish recipes. Q about consistency of starter: I've gotten into my own rhythm I guess you could say - starting last December I think - of refreshing and reviving my own sourdough starter. I have a loosey goosey method of adding about the same amount of flour as there is starter, or a bit more i...	Wet vs. Dry It sounds like Forkish prefers a stiff starter, probably in the 50 - 60% range. There was a thread on wetter vs. drier starters recently: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/38724/starters-battertype-and-thicktypeThere seems to be a lot of people who favor stiffer starters, though I still like the ease of main...
Starter not quite doubling every time? I have a new whole wheat starter that I began 13 days ago, but was in the fridge for a few days after it was initially built up (bad advice, I know now :) ). I've had it at room temp for about 5 days now and it has pretty regularly doubled every 8 hours or so. One time I didn't ...	Just keep feeding it regulary Just keep feeding it regulary and it will be fine.I stick to one flour kind for the feeding of all of my starters.My Rye always will be fed with Rye flour, my Wheat 100% hydration always will be fed with Bread flour and the same goes for my 50% hydration starter.Just keep on feeding with y...
Gross!!!! Sick Sourdough...Worms! Hey all,I've neglected my starter pretty bad for a week and half or so, not refrigerated. I went to feed it tonight and bring it back to health (has never been a problem in the past) and it had the hooch on it of course, but then I noticed these slimy rice like things all up the cont...	It's gone bad Google rotting food and maggots. Time to start over. I keep my starters refrigerated. Why wouldn't you?Meir
Can I keep a small amount of 50% hydration starter... ... and build it up when I want to bake, as I do with my 100% hydration Starter.Right now I am feeding a 100g Starter with 100g Flour and 50g Water.So say I only feed 50g Starter with 50g Flour and 25g Water, and than feed it 2 or 3 times without discarding anything...	If you bake every week using the stiff starter you can keep 25 g of total from one week to the next in the fridge. When you build a levian with say 15 g of it you can use the other 10 g for the starter next week by feeding it 10 g of flour and 5 g of water, letting it rise 50% on the counter and then fridge it for net...
I am so happy with the 50% Sourdough Starter... ...had I known how much easier it is to look after a stiff starter I had done it month ago :yes:I baked my first bread with the stiff starter today. 150g 50% hydration wheat starter * feeding it with strong bread flour *450g strong bread flour 50g wholemeal flour 50g rye...	There you go. A stiff starter is pretty much maintenance free and as they say 'waste not want not' - Thriftiness is a virtue. Well done and ....Happy baking. Did you notice the bread being any more sour?
Butter milk fermented bread DSCN1873.JPG	Butter Milk fermented bread recipe Butter milk Fermented bread:440gm flour total weight 30%/70% ratio:30% 132gm flour under LAB ferment70% 308gm flour under Yeast ferment243ml Butter milk (226gm) 1½ tsp saltFerment at room temperature for 24 hours covered with cling wrap.65ml warm water for yeast activation. Add the r...
Starter feeding: bleached vs unbleached flour Past the rye stage, my starter is about two weeks old and lately it's been feed almost twice daily using White Lily AP flour; it's bleached. I observed some bubbles hours after the feeding but no real rise and dome of the mixture and I just realized that WL AP is a bleache...	Good! It sounds as though you are well on your way to being hooked on sourdough. If you want, you can start using Nosferatu in your baking, now. It will be better later, but why not try it?Ford
Lactobacillus versus Acetobacter Which one gives the sour flavor? I've read that less hydration in the starter produces more acetobacter giving a more sour flavor. Please keep replies short. 8) I'm very very confused with conflicting information I've been given. Would Hamelman's explanation on pg 58 of Bread, firs...	Both create sour Lactic: yogurty, sweet twangAcetic: lemony vinegar sharp twangYes a stiffer dough/starter promotes more acetic than a liquid and vice versa. But there is always more lactic than acetic in dough. Also cooler temps tend to promote the development of acetic acid indirectly. There is a great deal of inf...
Sourdough fail I am a complete sourdough newbie and my first attempt at a true sourdough left much to be desired. I used Peter Reinhart's starter in his Artisan Bread Every Day book (starts with whole wheat flour and pineapple juice and becomes a stiffer type of starter) and then made his pain au levain from the same b...	Hydration level??? Bulk Hydration level??? Bulk fermentation time?? Final proof time??Plan on getting some sort of container to "reinforce" the sidewalls of your dough during proofing.
How do I know my stiff Starter needs / wants feeding... ... I started a new stiff Starter today by taking 1/2 of my 100% hydration starter.Keeping one Jar with 100% hydration starter and 1 Jar with a 50% hydration starter.The Stiff Starter rose much faster than the liquid one , it looked kind of cool with the dome whi...	Your stiff starter is ready Your stiff starter is ready when it just starts collapsing on itself, when it has about doubled (or tripled) in volume. That is also the right time to feed. No need to clean the jar, I never do. Use a scraper or a spoon dipped in water, that will help release the starter that you need for yo...
Pizza using levain vs yeast Hello all. Wanted to vent on my very frustrating attempts at pizza dough using my levain. And ask - where did it all go so wrong. This is the 3rd or 4th time I've tried to make my dough this way. Build levain, make high hydration(75%) dough using ap flour with small amt (10%) spelt flour, ...	Well, a couple things Sourdough makes for a stickier dough than store-bought yeast does. It's just something to get used to. Also, it takes longer to rise than store-bought yeast. When you take the dough out of the fridge, it needs to warm up a bit before baking. With mine, I usually try to stretch it out while it's co...
I am such an Idiot, why did I do that ? Since I am feeding my Sourdough Starter with cold Water , as it is so hot I put in cold Water in my bowl when I mixed the Ingredients for my Bread!Why did I do that?That happened the first time when I got that flat bread that did not want to rise properly.At that time I did not ...	How cold was the water? Was it out of the fridge, cold tap, or room temperature? And make sure you tell us how it came out.I did not think water temperature would matter all that much as long as you adjusted the time. On the other hand, it does seem that those in the know suggest that the best temperatures of the doug...
4-5 hour car ride with bread dough (different from other thread!)... I'm not sure if sourdough starter instead of dry yeast plays a role in the decision I should make about how to transport my dough...10 or 11 hours from now I will have levain dough that has been bulk-fermenting. Ken Forkish's recipe says to then shap...	Well since I'm not sure now Well since I'm not sure now if I'm leaving later today or tomorrow morning, I just gently formed two balls out of the dough, put a tiny drop of olive oil on my hands and greased the insides of two gallon ziplock bags, and then put the dough in there and in the fridge for now. I figure my fr...
Have you Ever Dried Your Starter and Rehydrated it Later? Hi there dear forum members.I was wondering if it's possible to dry my very healthy starter in order to ship it via mail to a different location. Scientifically, it's possible to dry bacteria into spores and rehydrate them to further propagation (I work in a lab...	I did it to send it to my I did it to send it to my Sister in Germany.I fed my Starter and one it was fully active I took out 100g and spread it on Parchment Paper.I switched the light on in my Oven and put the Parchment Paper with the Sourdough Spread in it for 24 hours.Once it was fully dried I put it in my little fo...
txfarmer 30% rye sourdough sandwich loaf I've been trying to make a decent loaf with rye but with little success. I recently saw txfarmer's recipe on this forum and decided to give it a go. To be honest, I was sceptical - with my previous attempts, 30% rye resulted in a relatively flat loaf but with the txfarmer reci...	I think the secret ingredient is intensive mixing/good dough development.Here's a post where she defines "stage 3 windowpane".I suspect you can do this with other recipes as well - no milk or sugar required.
Accidentally added pastry flour when feeding my sourdough starter! I SWEAR, I'm not usually quite as spacey as I have been lately! My husband made cookies and moved around the bags of flour in the cabinet and I grabbed the one closest without realizing it was the wrong one.Then I was gone all day and didn't get to see...	I don't think you ruined it. I don't think you ruined it. Even if the flour was bleached and bromated. As long as there was no dry yeast or baking powder in the flour...... I think the lack of rise could have been the lack of protein in the flour. It just won't trap the air.Adrian
Where to start for a starter? Tried to fit a pun in the title and didn’t work out.Anyways, I’ve been artisan baking for just about 2 years and I think it’s finally time I start experimenting with sourdough and natural leavens. I spent a few hours yesterday watching videos and reading articles about sourdough starters a...	The 2 "definitive" posts: There are 2 posts on TFL, that I think are the most refered to when answering your question. I suggest bookmarking them in your TFL account (click "bookmark this" at the bottom of the post. That creates a bookMark on your TFL account page.).Maybe bookmark them in your browser too.https://www....
Pics of my first sourdough bread using my first sourdough starter ...which surprisingly turned out pretty perfect! I was following a Ken Forkish recipe but put in sourdough starter instead of dry yeast without altering anything else in the recipe. I thought it would be a major flop but it turned out not only attracti...	I didn't have a banneton for I didn't have a banneton for the second one so I put it over a towel in a colander. Haven't cut into it yet. Used a 4.5 qt. enameled cast iron dutch oven for both.
A question about San Fran Sourdough Starter from Sourdough International I just received my packet of San Francisco Sourdough Starter from Sourdough International. The instructions call for a proofing box for the first five days. Is this absolutely necessary? I have a Styrofoam cooler but don't want to have to run to t...	Proofing box? Yikes.... My starter came from King Arthur Flour Company. It was about a tablespoon of dried sponge. I am assuming your starter is the same. Here's the instructions I used to get my starter established...nothing but flour, water, a bowl.... 1. put 1/4 cup lukewarm water into container in which starter ...
Sourdough Revival and Dilemmas Hello,My sourdough starter has been acting up the past couple of months, having become incredibly proteolytic. It has been taking about 4 hours to double, but by the time it's doubled, the gluten has essentially dissolved, leaving me with flat, dense loaves.To remedy this, I brought out m...	Maybe Maybe if you built a stiff starter you could revive it and prolong it's life. What is the seed:flour ratio when you feed it? Maybe you just need to reduce the inoculation with the warm weather? I've yet to have a starter die on me but I've brought a few back to life (other's cultures that were neglected). My ...
I made a * flat * bread lol -OR- Do not rush your dough So I am not sure why it happened and not to worried about at the moment, unless it happens again * it gave me such a laugh.I used the same amount of Starter, Flour, Water BUT this time I used my Stand mixer as I was a bit in a hurry.The Bulk fermentation was rus...	That happened to me and I That happened to me and I blamed over proofing. Sliced up and toasted it made the best bread sticks.
San Francisco style sour dough Hello My first post I think I've been lurking for ages but thought I'd post the results of my 1st ever sour dough loaf. I've had a 100% hydration rye starter on the go for a week and a bit. I search the forum and other sites before settling on a variation of 'Josh's Super SFSD as posted b...	Real, genuine, authentic S.F. Real, genuine, authentic S.F. sourdough is made entirely from white flour, basically all-purpose flour. There are some posts on TFL which give the recipe for the real thing used by the bakeries there many years ago. It's largely a matter of semantics but you've got a nice rye sourdough the...
I've been a baaad baaad girl. Q. about my super old, unfed starter! Neglect doesn't seem harsh enough a word!I was all obsessed with learning about bread-baking and sourdough starters etc. back when the weather was cold. Then, well, even before the weather warmed up, I went in another direction. I left a few experim...	yes, take it out and let it warm up It will need some TLC for a few days. Wait until it peaks before reducing and feeding again. If you got to the lower light colored layer, it should be alright. You want to see good activity before sticking it back in the refrigerator.This first feed may take a day or two to peak a...
Why is my dough suddenly so wet? I'm hoping that one of you experienced folks can give me some insight. For the past 14 months I've been working with the very same sourdough recipe, using it as kind of a training ground to learn, practice and perfect my techniques. During that time I've gone from flat, pale, over pro...	I might of done my math wrong but it appears that your recipe is around 70% hydration, this shouldn't present any type of problem I don't think, maybe your scale has a problem, aside from the ingredients has anything else changed? times, temps, gluten development technique ect?
Converting starter Hello everyoneI've got a question on converting an active starter to a different type of flour.Currently I feed at a ratio of 1:5:3 and would like to switch to say AP or spelt flour. My WW starter is always on the counter. Can I just give it the same feeding with the new flour or do I have to build s...	Gradual conversion Just to clarify, it sounds like you currently have a starter fed entirely with whole wheat flour, but want to change it to all AP or all spelt, yes?I'd recommend doing the switch over in 2 or 3 feedings. Your starter might be hearty enough to handle a change like that well enough, but it'll probably ...
Rye Starter Hydration What is better, a 100% Hydration or a 133% Hydration.I certainly noticed that , when kept it at 133% Hydration the Starter will tripple in size within 3.5 hours, if I have it at it at 100% Hydration it will take about 8 hours or more to double or tripple.What I like to know is, what Hydration woul...	Rye loaf hydration I bake rye loaves between 83% and 85% final hydration for a 100% rye flour recipe. But builds for starters and preferments can contain higher hydrations to boost yeast.I find the wetter the starter the faster it ferments but there might be more going on in your comparisons for such a large differenc...
Now what , Stiff Starter I took the plunge and converted 50g Sourdough starter to a Stiff Starter.50g Starter-100gFlour-50g Water.It was so strange to knead it and have a * dough * starter, but it did rise great, it grew bigger than my 100% hydration Starter.Now I took 100g of it and added 200g of Flour and 100g Water ...	Do you mix by hand? Do you mix by hand or with a mixer? When I mix by hand I've done a few things. I'll autolyse the dough and then break the stiff starter up in to small pieces and scatter about and then mix in squeezing through the dough (I usually hold back some water from my autolyse for this and the salt incorpor...
Sourdough timings Hi Bakers!!!I have been sourdough bread making for just over a year and I use the timings and recipes that I know- I haven't learned in details about the percentages and the science of it all. Maybe I should but the information is just not staying lolI normally do folds 2 hours x 2 then 1 hour then ...	Don't worry about it. Won't Don't worry about it. Won't make much difference really. Enjoy!
Sourdough sponge Just wanted to see if there are any measurements on making a sponge the night before making the final dough. I've been making my loaves using a simple recipe of 150g starter, 300ml water and 450g flour. Letting it rise, knocking it back, shaping, second rise and bake. Thought I'd try the sponge method ...	I make a levain out of 1 tbsp I make a levain out of 1 tbsp of Starter plus 50g Flour and 50g Water, leave it for 12 hours * Over Night * and that I use to levain my loaf. My recipe is 500g Flour/300g Water/8.5g Salt. I work out how much 20% of my Flour is that I use for baking and in my head divide that number by 2 an...
Pineapple juice starter being... a bit too active? Hi everyone,Recently I've been up to the challenge of making my own wild yeast starter by mixing pineapple juice with rye flour. I followed a simple recipe that calls for 2Tbs of juice and flour everyday for 4 days and feed normally thereupon. Its been day 3 now and th...	with 30"C, it could be far along in the process. Does it smell beery and/or yeasty? If so, double or increase the flour. Take out a Tbs of starter after the bubbles seem to be decreasing and feed one spoon each rye and wheat with enough water to keep it a soft paste. Try putting it into a narrow straight glass to w...
Sourdough starter gone mad! Started a new starter about 5 or so days ago put a bit of fruit juice (mix of grape/apple from a tub of fruit in unsweetened juice) in with some white flour and water and did the usual flour-only feeding. I saw a 'false-start' during this period that I've seen mentioned, but then it started ...	cheapo I'm wondering what your end goal was here? Was it a rye starter? a wheat starter? In general I don't believe it's a great idea to keep throwing different things into a starter unless and until it is very well established. Fruit + water = yeast water so I guess you added some fruit related yeasts/LABs into the ...
Mini Ovens 104% Rye Celebration Bread Here is my attempt. Made 3 x 500g loaf tins with the whole recipeReally love the flavor and the walntus give it so much. Happy first attempt. The height on original is spectacular though . Still getting used to RyeThanks Mini Oven for an amazing ratio/technique with Rye breadGhazi	This is my favorite 100% whole rye bread too! Well done and happy baking. I can't get mine to look like hers either...but who can?Happy baking
My Beer Yeast bread Second post...!I actually signed up because I wanted to share this with you and see what anyone thought about it.I bred some yeast I got from a bottle-conditioned ale, and fed it for a 3 or 4 days (which included giving it some honey in the morning before I made the pre-ferment, and then today baked...	Beautifl Bread , crust and Beautifl Bread , crust and crumb.Lovely active Starter.
Rehydrated starter not behaving! So, I rehydrated some Oregon Trail starter a few days ago - I added about a teaspoon of flakes to 1 oz of room temp water, gave it a few minutes to soak and then added half an ounce of flour. After 12 hours at room temp (around 75), I added another half ounce of flour, and I seemed to ...	Probably rushing it. Don't feed anymore flour and just let it sit 24 hrs. Don't discard any of the starter yet or risk loosing what little base starter you have. I've never seen a dried starter respond in the first 12 hrs. Bacteria on the other hand can react in that amount of time. Waiting would be my suggestion....
Lactic Acid Has anyone tried manipulating the tanginess of sourdough by the direct addition of lactic acid? If so, what were the results?I use the word tanginess instead of sourness because I'm not looking to increase the vinegary sourness (acetic acid) but rather the milder lactic-acid tanginess.Rather than a discussi...	Don't cheat. learn to make it Don't cheat. learn to make it taste how you want properly. I imagine you will be much prouder of the results and you will of learned something as opposed to buying something.
Today's bake in new Dutch Oven:) I do prefer shaping Boules, it is much easier, but since my Husband bought me this Dutch Oven I gave it a go.I also had my oblong Banneton * never used before * so that was ok.When I use a Dutch Oven I do preheat it with the Oven, this time I forgot * oops * so I put it in for about 12 ...	Beautiful! Beautiful!
"Seeding" a new Tartine bread starter with existing culture? I have been baking breads for years with my sourdough starter that began it's life in as a bit of dried starter from the Friends of Carl network of sourdough culture conservationists. This starter has been vigorous and forgiving, always springing back no mat...	There are no bread police Go ahead and try your idea. While you may not be following everything according to the guidelines of the formula, it's the results that count. If it tastes good, then it is good. Jim
Bakery Bought Sourdough Having only tasted my own homemade sourdough I was curious how a sourdough loaf bought from a store would compare. So today I bought a loaf from our local Eurphorium Bakery who claim:"If you’ve tasted better bread anywhere in the world, then please let us know because we have artisan bakers at ...	How often do you feed your How often do you feed your starter and how long after feeding do you use it? Also, what kind of flour are you using to feed and for the bread?
Flour used in the starter Hi guys Been away from making breads for a while after getting lazy and letting my starter die, got a new starter to the point its ready to bake with. I notice a lot of people use different flour types in there starter, my last starter was just 100% white bread flour and I've done the same thi...	I highly recommend these two I highly recommend these two posts:The Pineapple Juice Solution, Part 1 \| The Fresh LoafThe Pineapple Juice Solution, Part 2 \| The Fresh LoafIn answer to your second question, You can convert your current starter to one fed with whole rye or wheat flour. I did it a over 12 months ago. I wro...
Dough sticking to floured brotform The final dough is 70% hydration overall and 20% levain overall.Once the overnight levain is mixed with water and the remaining flour, it autolyses for about an hour. It's kneaded a couple of minutes and bulk fermented for two hours. French folded (stretch and fold) and allowed to r...	Did you spray the bowl just Did you spray the bowl just before you sprinkled the flour in?I use AP flour but also Semolina Flour before I put my bread in, mine does never stick.I also flour the top of the Dough before I put it in the banneton seam side up and flour the Seamside , than I proof the dough.
100% rye sour Thought I might share my first (happy with) attempt at sourdough rye.It had quite a lot of starter inside, almost 280g for a total of 500g of flour. Ive been reading that with Rye some people call for same weight as starter in flour as it seems to benefit a lot from the sour side. Im guessing spelt is sim...	Hmmmm, I like it. How's the Hmmmm, I like it. How's the crumb?Did you really use starter or built a levain from it? Do the 500g total flour include the 140g prefermented flour (assuming 100% hydration of the starter)?I myself am in a 100% whole rye phase myself.
Bad-tasting starter In one of Nancy Silverton's books she mentioned home bakers who said their starters were just fine despite long periods of neglect. Maybe they still worked as leaven, but Silverton thought these starters tasted awful!At first I thought she was referring to an excess of acid, but now I think there mu...	Did you taste it before? Just out of curiosity, did you taste it when it was giving you nicely flavored bread?And do you bake the bread with recently fed starter (how many times has it been fed between the neglected state and the time you use it?)
Cold rising in a standard temp fridge So over my years of baking now and your assistance I learned that most of my baking failures were due to under proofing the bread. San Francisco is quite cold all year round so I learned that I could let my sourdoughs bulk rise for over 20 hours followed by a cold proof in the bask...	I only do the Bulk fermenting I only do the Bulk fermenting in the fridge, often up to 24 hours.I let it come to room temperature before I shape it and put it in the well floured proofing basket.I never do a cold final proof, my final proof is at the longest 2.5 hours, but mainly 1.5 -2 hours.
Yesterday's first SD Loaf, all baked Yesterday's first SD. Upon inverting the brotform to dump the proofed dough onto the peel, the dough, to my dismay, adhered to the bottom of the brotform thus distorting its shape. The dough was salvageable, however, and turned out fine. Perhaps an additional french fold (stretch...	Very nice for a first loaf Very nice for a first loaf Bob Marley.Very nice colour.
Starter consistency I recently got involved with making sourdough bread. It is very satisfying and the flavor is really interesting . Can anyone let me know what kind of a consistency I should keep my starter at so it is very active. I have been going for a thicker paste so less water, don't know if it's a good thing a...	You will get many different You will get many different perspectives on which way is best but here is what I do to keep consistency with my starter.I keep my starter at 100% hydration by weight. That means equal amounts of flour and water by weight.When its on the counter I feed my starter at a 1:1:1 ratio every 12 hou...
The crown continues growing!!!!! This thread is a continuation of a thread initiated yesterday entitled "Making a Levain".Here are a couple of photos of the crown 5 hours later as the SD dough continues to grow.	Growing nicely:) Growing nicely:)
Making a levain Okay so my starter has been peaking an slightly less than 8 hours and I'm ready (I think) to make a levain for a 500g dough. Here are the ingredients for it:5g starter50g water50g AP flourSo the levain clocks in at approx. 21% of the final dough weight. The levain is setting at room temp 75F 24C. I...	I'd expect At that feed ratio I'd expect it to take at least 12 hours and up to 18 hours to peak depending on temperature of course. Should make for a twangy levain. So my only suggestion is to wait until it is truly peaked. That and don't skip the autolyse phase Good luck and happy dough makingJosh
Oh my rye starter now Hello everyoneAfter carefully maintaining my Rye starter for about 2 months , it got to a stage where it was blooming after feeding and it would dome very tight, of course nearly tripling in size in a matter of 4 hours (1:1:1) feeding.Then I decide since I am happy its raising batches of bread now...	Looks Right to Me The picture looks like a happy rye starter to me. If your rye starter was tripling I'd say it was "too" active hence the extra tang you say is missing. My rye starter might double at peak but probably a bit short of double. It's full of bubbles and doming though and has a fruity sour smell to it. ...
Fresh out of the Oven:) Baked in my Dutch Oven. This was made with 250g Wheat Sourdough Starter, 300g Bread flour and 200g Wholemeal Flour.10g Salt and 400g Water.I just mixed it all together.Since it is a quite Wet dough I did no kneading at all.I let it Bulk ferment in the fridge for 14 hours, than shaped it, proofed...	Looking really Looking really GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD! 8^))))))
Which flour are you using and why? Good flour is one of the essential variables in sourdough. I am currently using Center Milling Organic Artisan Bakers Craft Plus (11.5% protein) at 80% and Center Milling Organic Whole Wheat Hi-Pro Fine (13.5% protein) at 20%. I started with these and stuck to them until I was able to...	I live in the Pacific I live in the Pacific Northwest and we are lucky to have some fantastic mills up here.My favorite bread flour is Expresso T85 from Cairnspring Mills. I get 50 lbs of it at a time and use it for rustic loaves and to feed my starter. (Tartine bakery uses flour from Cairnspring Mills.) Expresso was t...
Not enough yeast in starter? When my starter was 1 month old, I could make bread that had great oven spring and a lovely crumb. The taste was mildly sour. My starter is now about 2.5 months old and it seems to have taken a turn for the worse. The bread I'm getting now has hardly any oven spring and is dense. The taste ...	warm up the starter a few degrees Hi Mary, your loaves in March had 73° F room temp. Try using warm water when feeding the starter or double the starter amount to 20g with your overnight feeds when temperatures drop. I have a large styrofoam cup that helps me keep the starter warm now that I've turned off the heat ...
Question reg. Baking Bread with AP flour... ... I was always told to use Bread Flour because of better Gluten Development.The one I use has 14% Protein.Why do people use AP flour, or is the AP flour different from our Plain flour that we use in the UK?	AP and gluten development I've noticed that most people will recommend bread flour because of the higher gluten content, but I also read somewhere that even our modern AP flour has a higher gluten content than flour from generations ago, and those people still made excellent bread. I suppose the lower gluten content wo...
Desiring a stronger flavored starter I'm creating a sourdough starter as shown in Maggie Glezers book. The daily feeding consists of:60g starter45g water90g bread flourI've been doing this feed for four days and would like to substitute about 15g of rye flour for 15g of bread flour in the feed as I've read that using ...	Go for it Whole rye flour is a good thing for a sourdough starter. As for flavor, temperatures and feeding patterns have a greater effect on the sourness than do flour types. Still, whole grain flours have the ability to carry more acid than their white equivalents.Use the search tool to look up pineapple juice soluti...
Fingers crossed for my * Roggenmischbrot * Using a Leaven made with 15g Rye Starter and 25g each water and flour.Once it was nice a bubbly I added 9g Dry Instant Yeast, 250g bread flour, 250g rye flour, 8g salt, 1 tsp sugar, 1tsp caraway seeds and 3Tbsp vegetable oil.To this I added 350g warm water.Mixed it all up, let...	Slow rye rises are key If the recipe asked for 9g fresh yeast and you added 9g of instant, you increased the yeast. I've found that increasing the yeast amount in rye breads, even one as low as 50% rye flour will have just the opposite effect. It rips the loaf up instead of raising it. Try using less yeast or just s...
restoring a starter?? I recently posted in the wrong place, for which I can offer only a newbie's apology. Here goes again: I have a sourdough starter (from KFA), which I have maintained for almost two years. It still contributes a great flavor, but has lost its ability to cause any rise. It seems I have selected f...	What is your current feeding What is your current feeding schedule? perhaps with that we can figure out the problem.
Question five-day old starter I initiated my starter last Thurs (today = Tues) by mixing a 1:1 ratio of rye flour and filtered water. 24 hours later half was removed and replaced. The ratio is 2:2:2 100% starter : water : flour (rye). Since then it's been fed every 24 hours and the last two feedings have consist...	I have learned that the Flour I have learned that the Flour should stay the same and only changing the Water to get a differend hydration.You can also add cold water to slow the fermantation down, I do that with my Rye Starter at the moment , it was quite hot here the last 2 days.I keep mine at 1:1:1 , have a 100% hydr...
Stick just-fed starter back into fridge to slow it down? I'm leaving town for a month -- was wondering if sticking my just-fed starter immediately back into the fridge without letting it start to bubble first might prevent it from getting to starvation point? On its last feeding it doubled in just under 2 hours. Than...	Doubled in 2 hrs? If your starter is doubling in less than 2 hours, you may not be feeding it enough to begin with. What is your usual feeding ratio? I'd recommend feeding it enough that it would reach peak (may be more than double) in about 12 hours. My house is around 72F right now, and my starter takes a feeding of ...
How to store your Starter in the fridge? I read 2 ways on how to store a Sourdough Starter in the fridge e.g when.One said to put it in the fridge as soon as it is fed.The other said to let the sit on the counter until it has doubled and than put in the fridge.Now of course I am confused as I do want to do it the right...	It depends on how much the starter is fed, and how long you plan to keep it chilled and when you want to use the chilled starter. Oh, and the temperature of the refrigerator, counter and starter.Rule of thumb: Make sure it is active and fermenting before chilling and that there is enough food to survive the length of...
Oven Spring Hi All,I could do with some guidance re. oven spring. I don't know if I'm getting all I should or not. So perhaps the experts can help.What amount of oven spring is considered good - my batch today achieved a spring of 100% and 175% respectively (these were cooked differently) cf. the uncooked proved doug...	How do you know the % of the How do you know the % of the Oven sping?Mine rise beautiful but I would not know to what %.Never to late to learn something new:)
Stuck on a sourdough challah quest Not sure sourdough challah will ever be as light and tasty as my foolproof commercial yeast recipe. Bread-#46 has been tried three times, once to decent, though mediocre results. My starter has given rise to many a bread, but no wonderful challahs thus far.Suggestions welcome.	It can be done! I have had good results with sourdough challah, even making a 100% whole wheat sourdough challah that was light as can be. As for the recipe from your blog, I would at least double the amount of pre-ferment, even going up to 50% of total flour, and up it's hydration percentage a bit. After the pre-ferme...
New sluggish starter (not a newbie) I am new to creating a sourdough starter, although not very new to sourdough baking. Recently, I accidentally allowed my starter to die of neglect. I had some dehydrated starter set aside, and I rehydrated that, but it is not behaving at all like a rehydrated starter, but like one th...	I’d keep doing a1:1:1 starter I’d keep doing a1:1:1 starter and use the discard to make a second starter and use 2:1:1 for that starter. I’ve done that before with starter that had been in the fridge for several months. Then choose the starter that is healthiest.
Big fail I didn't line my bannetton with a cloth and thought i had dusted it with enough flour but apparently i didn't so when i turned the dough onto my parchment there was alot of stretching as i was trying to pull the dough out which was stuck to the bannetton. Along with my crappy scoring I had crappy oven spring ...	Try rice flour; non-gluten, Try rice flour; non-gluten, and won't stick.
Happy with Bread:) I have not used my 100% hydration Wheat Starter for about 3 Month, I had him in the fridge, feeding him once a week 1:1:1.The Wheat Starter is about 1 ½ year old.I used the Rye Starter as I was following recipes from * The Weekend Bakery * online.They use Rye Starter and do the 15 g of Rye Starter wi...	Clarification Was slightly confused by your words.Firstly which starter did you use for your loaf, the rye starter or wheat starter? You said both:"I used the Rye Starter" and "I got my Wheat Starter out of the fridge"Secondly you said:"fed him so that I have 200g Starter which I fed 1:1:1 for about 3 days."This impli...
Reviving old starter I left some rye and AP starter in England that I last fed on January 1. We live in California, but my husband is English and all of his family are here, as well as many dear friends. When we arrived back this week (mid-May), I was concerned about the condition of the starters. The rye didn't look...	Survivors Those little bacteria are commandos. They, along with viruses will be partying across planet Earth long after humans have been and gone.
First sourdough Only wild starter, am very happy this is happening now:)Thank you everybody for your wonderful advice, its been so helpful to meGhazi	Excellent! What a fantastic looking bread you've produced! Definitely does not look like the work of a first-time sourdough baker . . . the distribution of the air holes looks downright professional !Best of luck and keep us up to date.
Pale Crust HelloI have been getting these crusts more than often these days, it happens when I bake with a little of my sourdough starter. I put around 50g in with a regular 500g bread recipe, little commercial yeast etc.. (Still find it hard to use only wild starter)Flavor is good, though could it be because I am not ...	More info please :) More info about the recipe, rising and the bake, esp. temperatures would help. A crumb shot might also help us figure this out. Could be several things at once but my first impression is that the dough is under proofed or if the crust skin dried out before baking, it won't stretch or brown much. ...
My First Loaves My first time with sourdough.I used the recipe found in my ancient copy of The Crank's Recipe Book.I haven't yet got a proper Banneton so for one loaf I used a standard baking tin and for the other I covered a flour sieve with some baking foil and lightly oiled it.Here is the domed loaf.And a slice show...	Sorry none of your pictures actually show up with my laptop.
Herman sourdough bread Hello, I am planning to start a herman sourdough starter, but first need one thing cleared up. Can you bake a yeasted bread using herman sourdough as the only leavening? I have searched around, but found that most recipes required an additional source of leaven, etc. commercial yeast. Thanks in a...	Hermann, Robert, Amish Hermann, Robert, Amish frindship, ...are all more or less well fed sourdoughs with more or less contamination of commercial yeast.If you don't know who had it before, and think it might have been neglected, do a view refreshments, and you are good to go. As you will have already seen on this page...
%starter in dough Okay I've been making a yeasted 1.6kg dough at 60% hydration. To transform it into a sourdough, I found this at Wiki:"...Finally, the starter is mixed with flour and water to make a dough of the desired consistency. The starter weight is usually 13 to 25% of the total flour weight, though formulas ma...	This depends on your recipe This depends on your recipe.On some recipes I'd use 533g Sourdough - or as much sourdough at 100% hydration as flour in the final dough. After mixing, the fermentation would be just 45' to 2 hours max - no bulk fermentation. The aroma building fermentation would already have happened in the ...
Difference between 450º vs 500º ? What would be the differences in my breads if one time I baked at 450º as opposed to 500º?I use a combo cooker, and keep it covered for 30 minutes then uncovered for 20 minutes.Which one would yield me a thinner crust?Thanks!	50 degrees Sorry I had too. Thinner crust would come from a shorter overall bake time which a hotter oven will provide along with better oven spring. But If you start hotter it may require you to change your set routine. If I started at 500 I'd lower the oven shortly after loading to 450 and maybe remove the steam ...
Rye vs Pumpernickel for starter Since I live in a very isolated devoid of pumpernickel flour, I have access to Hodgson Mill Rye Flour. Is there any reason I couldn't use the rye instead of pumpernickel flour for creating a starter?	MIght even be better Pumpernickel is just coarse ground whole Rye. So I would think Hodgson Mill Rye Flour would be even better suited for creating a starter if not a wash. Do look at the ingredient list and see if it is "whole rye" though so you know what you are actually working with. Cheersjosh
A questino regarding the crumb of Sourdough Bread. I am German, living in the UK for 17 years now, could not find good bread here so started baking my own.Now, everyone wants this very open crumb, those big holes, I am surprised because, in Germany you do not strive for that, in fact, people I think would see it as a f...	France and Italy? My first thought was that it comes from France, but I can think of examples from Italy more easily. For example, ciabatta is known for having a very loose and open crumb, foccacia and pizza sometimes do as well, and over in the US, generic "Italian Bread" often has a chewy crust and very open structur...
Ideal temperature for refreshing/maintaining starter (not in fridge) With the changing of the seasons, and with my purchase of a Brod & Taylor Proofer, I am thinking about what the ideal temperature is to maintain and refresh a starter (out of the fridge, and frequently used). I've gathered a number of different sourc...	As the starter is used As the starter is used regularly, use whatever temp that'll get the level of fermentation required by the time it's needed again. Enjoy!
starter feeding Hello everybodyI have got 2 starters going now, 1 is a WW and the other rye.Both are more than a month old, the WW being more mature. Although I find when It comes to bake sourdough without a tiny boost of commercial yeast, the dough does not rise especially when formed for final proof.Heres a recipe I ...	I'm certainly no expert but to me..... .... there's nothing unusual in the ingredients or quantities and strong white flour should respond adequately providing your starters are up to the mark. Personally, I would question the need to 'deflate every hour for 4 hours'. I would prefer to let the dough rise during the b...
Best Overnight Proofing Temperature I am able to control the temperature of my sourdough loaves for overnight retarding and proofing and I wanted to get everyone's opinion of what you think the best temperature is and why. There has been a bunch of recent thoughts and discussion on this circulating in books and whatno...	temp Hey Nick, My kitchen stays at about 60F fairly consistently overnight during much of the year. During the couple hot months of the summer it goes up to about 70 or 80. I'll leave my preferment overnight above the fridge, where I get 65F, a total of about 8 hours. I've left it up to 12 hours and it still turns out ...
OMG I was lucky. phewww Note to self: Do not bake at 2.15 am in the Morning when you are tired but can not sleep.I wanted to bake a white loaf which I usually enhance with unfed wheat Sourdough Starter.I had pulled it out in the Afternoon, fed it and put the half that I took out in a bowl for the white loaf.In my tired...	I can't tell you how many I can't tell you how many times I stopped myself before pouring juice in my cereal, and when I would make bread in the morning, more often than not I would forget one thing or another. I don't know how professional bakers can do it so early in the morning without making tons of mistakes.
unfed sourdough starter question When a recipe asks for unfed starter, do I keep the starter that I set aside to be used 12 hours later in the fridge or can it sit out on the counter? And if it should go in the fridge, should I take it out a while before using so it can come to room temp?	Clarification I'm a little uncertain as to how to interpret the first half of your question. What it sounds like you're saying is, "I am going to take some already unfed starter, leave it for 12 hours, and then do things with it. Where should I keep it during the 12 hour period?"Does this sound like what you meant, or ...
Pineapple Yeast? Found an aging half cup of pineapple juice in the fridge, had an aroma of ferment so I warmed it up on the stove top until it bubbled and foamed. Incorporated into another batch of sweet potato dough whose recipe I swiped from Floyd here. As you can see, got good rise in my briouche, nytzels and qaiser...	Too many variables to Too many variables to definitively answer why you're seeing lots of activity. I will say however that commercial type yeast is a by-product of brewing. s. cerevisiae is a top fermenting beer yeast.I think it was chris319 that was pushing the idea that s.cerevisiae isn't native to grains, which is ...
I need help reg. Biga, Poolish, Levain What is the difference?My fav. Recipe asks for 500g Bread Flour, 300g warm water 8.5g Salt...The way I do my Levain is first a bit Math.20% of the Amount of Flour that the recipe calls for.This is 100g I dived that by 2 and have 50/50So my Levain is made with 1 Tbsp of Rye Starter...	YMMV Briefly:Biga - A very dry Italian preferment, often, but not always, made with commercial yeast. Drier than most doughs, generally fermented for 12 - 16 hours.Poolish - A very wet French preferment (attributed to Polish bakers, hence the name) consisting of equal or almost equal parts of flour and water by weight,...
starter refusing complete cooperation? My main problem is that my doughs won't rise. They're too dense and gummy. Crust is always beyond delicious, but the inside... bad.My baby is ca 5 weeks old. I keep it at room temperature, and feed it every 12 hours. Generally I feed 1:1:5:1.5, at 8am, and 8pm. It'll peak at aroun...	Bread density I would not worry about the temperature remaining constant. The dough will rise if the temperature is between 50 and 85°F. Your problem seems to be not rising enough on the final proof, i. e. after shaping the loaf. In the "poke" test does the imprint of the fingers disappear almost immediately or doe...
vermont sourdough I have a question about the Vermont sourdough recipe. I've never tried it, but I'm curious.What does "unfed" starter mean in this case? I feed mine every 12 hours, at ca 8am and 8pm. If I were to make that recipe in the morning, meaning I would prep the overnight starter at 8pm the previous night, wou...	It's probably okay If the rye were a year or older, then yeah, you might want some new stuff just to be confident. Since I'm pretty frugal, I'd probably still keep it for starter feedings, but I wouldn't expect it to taste as good in a baked good. But at 7 months, probably still okay. Is it a light rye flour, or a whol...
Still working on the Breadtopia No Knead recipe The original recipe asks for:143g whole wheat300g white wheat1.5tsps saltand either 1/4 yeast OR 1/4 cup sourdough starter (which in my case amounts to 66g--for some reason the original recipe just adds that flour/water on to the rest of the dough, which then amounts to 4...	Sorry for the continued troubles Well, I just thought of something. I don't remember noticing it in your other post. The white flour called for in the recipe, what exactly is that? Is it AP or Bread flour or something else? I'm asking because the difference in gluten between AP and Bread flour can mean the difference b...
Heating the cast iron skillet At the risk of sounding foolish, could anyone please tell me if they've ever tried heating their cast iron skillet on flame top instead of in the oven? As I understand it, if one were to preheat the oven with an iron skillet inside it, it would take significantly longer for the oven to rea...	Interesting idea I don't tend to involve a cast iron skillet in my bread baking, but when I use a stone, I give the oven extra time to heat to ensure that the stone has maximum heat absorption; I don't think my oven takes much longer to heat.Have you tried timing how long it takes your oven takes to heat with the skill...
Batch of Sourdough Bread Hello Everyone, I consider myself a beginner in that I know many how's of sourdough baking (for example, following the recipe) but not many of the why's (why does this recipe say fold 4 times while another doesn't specify). Yesterday I made 7 sourdough loaves. The same recipe was used; I trie...	Here are pictures of the Here are pictures of the loaves. I uploaded one of them as part of the original post but I don't see it so I'm posting it here again. Paolo
eye infection I just started baking at my job and after a week i acquired an eye infection. if a natural spore from this region is harmless until fed into my starter, could this be a problem with my starter or just me?	Could you explain why you Could you explain why you feel that your eye infection is related to your starter? Also, have you sought medical attention, and if so, was anybody able to ascertain the source of the infection (i.e. is it fungal, bacterial, viral?)
About purchasing powdered starters I have a couple of good starters going. I don't seem to have trouble getting them up and running but what I have been thinking about is the flavour provided by a starter. If I understand it correctly the starter or culture will be characteristic of its environment. Is there any poi...	Good question. My suggestion is to get the free sourdough starter from thr Oregon trail (carls friends) and see if it is any different. I have the powder but never used it because my own seemed to work fine.
Whole wheat starter Due to having three diabetics in the family I have been baking only whole wheat breads. Now I would like to grow my own whole wheat starter. Does anyone have any suggestions for a good whole wheat starter?Thanks.	I use the one from the book I use the one from the book The Hand Made Loaf by Dan Leopard. I use all whole grains and have always had good results using his method.You will also find directions for a whole grain starter in Peter Reinhart's Whole Grain Breads. HIs book is full of wonderful formulas for breads made com...
Queston about the Hydration of my Rye Starter. I have a 60g Rye Starter which I used to feed with 60g of Rye Flour and 60g of Water.Is that 100% Hydration? I believe it is since I feed at a 1:1:1 Ratio.I found the Starter to stiff so I changed to 60g of Rye Flour and 80g of Water, which is much easier for me to work wi...	Hi Petra It's 133% hydration.80g water divided by 60g flour and multiplied by 100 gives the %age.
My First Loaf, Suggestions? I made a sourdough starter a few months ago and have only been using it por pancakes and muffins until now. Making a true sourdough loaf seemed a bit daunting, but I finally made my first loaf! I just wanted to share it with everyone and maybe get some suggestions on how to make it better ne...	Did you knead the Dough by Did you knead the Dough by Hand or in a Stand Mixer?I always had dense Crumb until I started to stretch and fold my dough and used a Dutch Oven to bake in.What temperature was your Oven and how long did you bake it for.
another disaster I have had reasonably good success with breadtopia's sourdough no knead method recipe. Great crust, but dense-ish. I always followed this recipe:66 g starter at 100% (1/4 cup in the recipe, and in my case it amounts to 66g)300g white bread flour143g whole wheat bread flour343g water1.5 tsp saltI mix th...	liquid vs. firm starter Liquid starter may not rise like firm starter, if it's really liquid the gas will just bubble up and escape out. Whereas with firm starter the gas is trapped and the starter rises.Sounds as if you didn't get much gluten development in the final dough. Four s+f's at 30 minute intervals is typical...
Effects of salt on fermentation and proofing I have often heard that salt interferes with the yeasts ability to consume flour, and therefore leads to less active fermentation. I assume that this is the reasoning that sponges are often made without the salt, and only at the final stage before shaping your dough is the ...	Danny, You have the right Danny, You have the right ide
Non sour natural yeast? Hello, I have a little problem here.I'd like to minimise my dependence on commercial yeast, and so, in my attempts to do so, I'd previously built up a starter (made one nice bread, but met an untimely death when frozen in the fridge... don't ask how. Even I don't know) but I found that the bread...	Okay, let's see here... I've found that my sourdough starter can be kept well out of range of being sour by simply keeping it well fed with unbleached white Bread or All Purpose flour. For even more blandness, try using bleached AP. I feed it such that it just reaches peak before I feed it again. In my case, that is a ...
salt to retard I bake in a hot climate, so am often struggling with ways to retard fermentation. I use standard tricks like less innocation, using cold ingredients, fermenting overnight, firmer hydrations, and shoving things in the fridge when needed. I'm wondering about using salt more strategically. Instead of addi...	You nailed This is a common remedy to your problem. Salt your levain by a percentage of the flour in the levain. Be sure to record this and remove from the final dough salt. You'll have to play with what percentage works for your levain and timing. I fortunately live in a very mild climate so don't have the need fo...
Starter in Surrey Hello to everyone!I apologise if this is not the correct place to put the question or if this is not appropriate question...I wonder if there are any bakers here from UK and in particular from Surrey. With birth of my twins I am not able to grow a new starter for whatever reason. Either rooms are too ...	I am in surrey and would be I am in surrey and would be happy to share my starter. I will send you a private message soon...Michael
Five Minute Score Have you heard of the five minute score? I read about it on Instagram and wanted to give it a go with a bake today. The idea is that if a dough might be a bit over proofed, when you score it, it is likely to spread pretty fast before the crust has a chance to set a bit to prevent spreading. So inst...	Some wheels were not meant to be re-invented.
Diastatic malt - another question for the experts.... I have a desire to see the effect of diastatic malt on my sourdough but would like to know the following:When do you add diastatic malt - is it supposed to be added to the flour with the other ingredients and then autolysed (with the culture being added later)? Or...	Hi, AromaIn principle, you Hi, AromaIn principle, you may add diastatic malt to an autolyse without before the levain. Personally , i haven't tried that. Diastatic malt is often used in recipes that require extended fermentation time, as with cold fermentations. It is preferable to add diastatic malt at the rate of 0.1...
Blueberry jam fermented yeast culture? I just found a jar of blueberry jam in the back of the fridge that smells wonderfully fermented, there looks to be a whitish/pale blue foam/slime stuff on it, I was wondering if/should I multiply the stuff, and how to do so?	The bacteria that fermented the jam must have come from somewhere else -- jam is boiled for prolonged periods and its temperature reaches more than 100C because of all the sugar that's in there. I'd toss the jam. I think it likely that the whitish stuff is mold.
Freezing a starter I have just returned home after three months abroad.before leaving I fed my starter and placed it in the freezer of my refrigerator. I took it out after my return and in no time it was bubbling and frothing as if It had not been in limbo for three months	Resilient little buggies! Arn Resilient little buggies! Arn't they!

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