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Scaling back Tartine Bread Starter technique
I pain stakingly calculate grams to tablespoons, teaspoons and calculate everything to the last detail, here it is To Start making Starter from Day 1Flour blend (50% whole wheat, 50% white bread flour) Step 1: 2 tablespoons flour blend and mix 1.54 tablespoons water(1 and... | Calculations here
Calculations may change, I may double check for errors, so use this recipe at your own risk. Original recipe315 grams flour blend400 grams water400/315=44% more water than flour1 tablespoon of flour blend is 8 gramsTherefore two tablespoons is 16 grams16 grams water is 1.0666 tablespoonsSince first ti... |
Help a beginner with his sourdough adventure
So I'm a chef with no training in the baking/patisserie side of the kitchen but I am ever inquisitive and always wanting to learn new things. I've found my self working in a small kitchen and as a result get to do most of the in house baking, so I'm not a complete novice whe... | I think it really depends on
I think it really depends on how much you leave behind. I always make sure to expand I at least 1 part old to two parts new to give the bacteria a chance to grow well. I did cell culture for years in graduate school etc, and I'm finding that treating the starter like a lab organism does the... |
What to do about Apple-y Starter
When I make my ww sourdough bread, I more or less follow Mike Avery's directions for building the starter. Then I reduce it to about 8g, add 8g each water and ww flour, and return it to the refrigerator, the coldest part that's not in the freezer. I do not babysit.It's been six weeks ... | Regular Feedings
Regular feedings 2-3 times a day will bring your starter back to life. I've yet to do so but in readings if you are going to chill your starter for extended time its best to dry it out first. All the reactions that happen in a starter thrive better in a somewhat liquid state. So if you add flour to ... |
Trying to come up with a weekday sourdough schedule
I have been dabbling through recipes in Reinhart and Forkish. have a good sourdough culture going in the fridge but haven't mastered it yet. Reinhart refrigeration Technique allows weekday schedule but I have had mixed success getting it optimally proofed af... | You can check my post on
You can check my post on 36hours onion sourdoughIt should fit in your work schedule easily.before you head to work you mix the levain and dough, put the dough in the fridge levain on counter. When you finished work they should be ready, mix them together added salt, do 4-6 S&F depends on your d... |
no knead/S+F?
I've had good success with breadtopia's no knead sourdough, except for "holy-ness". Still too dense. I always mix the dough at around 6pm and let it ferment up to 18 hours. I thought I'd give the s+f a few times a try after mixing the dough and before going to bed. If I understand this correctly, this wou... | I also do a few s&f's when I
I also do a few s&f's when I make the no knead loaf. Don't worry too much about adjusting times. The whole thing about this loaf is that it is super convenient. Bake it when you are ready to bake. It is a very forgiving dough. Don't know if you saw the original video, but he actually d... |
Loaf shape
It seems everyone's ideal sourdough loaf comes in the form of a boule (like on the front page of this site). With boules, are you all making sandwiches or anything with the bread or just eating the bread "naked?" Like I'm a sandwich lover...and I enjoy regular sized loaf bread. So I make all of my bread (... | $0.02
I think there's both a predilection towards hearth style loaves, since they're more the archtypical bread of the artisan bread movement, and a lot of us like using dutch ovens for steaming, which encourages the round shape specifically.Also, I'm fine with making sandwiches out of slices of a boule, though I recog... |
Still having starting help!
I still need starter help! I did the test like Mini Oven told me to do. It bubbled and expanded 50% in 8 hours. Then, it deflated but it did rise again like she said. I have fed like she told me but now it bubbles on top and is very yeasty but its not doubling so I just keep feeding but s... | Give it some time
I would advise just giving it some time. My first starter took about ten days to start acting "right". A starter goes though several stages. If you have reached the point that it successfully doubled and fell, you aren't far off. My advice would be to take about a tablespoon of your starter, and m... |
Tip - Pan Breads Simplified
As I write this, we’re in the midst of the Covid-19 Pandemic and many of us are home baking bread. Whereas a few short months ago large numbers of us were focused on “The Perfect Loaf”, now we are happy to be able to bake our own nutritious sandwich bread for utilitarian purposes.I have beco... | Baking in the time of the virus
Yes, stressing over artisan bread perfection seems frivolous for these times of just bread. I have found it harder to do both and have been focusing on getting to the right Approachable loaf. I have gotten better at not over proofing and the oven spring has really improved. Baking almost... |
Sourdough Starter Mother Maintenance
I am a newbie to sourdough mother starter, so if these questions seem obvious, apologies. How often should a mother starter that is kept in the refrigerator be refreshed when not regularly baking?Can a mother starter that has been in the fridge for 3 or 4 weeks looks dry on top and... | You can find out
Odds are you can bring it back to life. Take the tiniest bit. Say 1/2 tsp (5g) or so and add 50 g flour and 50 g warm water. . Once its healthy at a feeding of 1:2:2 seed:flour:water by weight should be peaking in 6-8 hours. I've brought back some funky cultures so i'm sure you can too. Good Luck... |
No Rise to My Sour Dough?
This website is great. I recently starting making my own bread using Mark Bitman's NY Times no-knead recipe. I've had tremendous success with it and I am using a clouche. The crust and crrumb almost perfect and I am creating some nice loaves. I wanted to try a sourdough loaf at the request of ... | What may be the problem
If your starter has hooch, that means its very very hungry and needs more food! A starving starter is not going to give the bread a good rise. Neither will, for that matter, a starter that's used when it's not fully ripened. Make sure if you have a wet starter, that it's puckering on the top ... |
Black specks appearing throughout starter
Hi all.I fed my stiff (50% hydration) starter a large dilution last night, and then this morning noticed black specks appearing right through the dough. Concerned, I clipped off a tiny piece from a previously formed rising loaf and seeded a second container of starter. I exam... | speck photo would help
and what kind of flour are you using? Meanwhile, wet some flour (no starter) let it stand and see what it does. Try also another mix using a different source of water. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/comment/138641#comment-138641you can simply thin some of the starter with water and run thru a ... |
How can I improve making sour rye bread
Followed Greenstein recipeseamed lava rockbaked at 375fDidn't rise and very dense or smallMy goal is to make good ny ry bread | Do a Search
Up on the right do a search for Greenstein and you'll see some posts by dmsnyder who stands by this bread and has made more than a few times. He or his posts on the subject may be able to assist.Josh |
more flavor?
I make sd bread using Breadtopia's No Knead Method (2/3 white, 1/3 whole wheat, my starter being 100% white wheat). I'm quite happy with the results. However, one thing I'd like to get more of is flavor. It's sour enough for me as it is, that's not the issue, but I wish it were more flavorful--not quite su... | I try to get more flavor 4 or 5 ways
Increasing eh whole grains to 50% and doing at least a 5 grain. Adding in ground flavor enhancers like Toaties or mixed with toasted ground flax and sesame seeds or other seeds like pumpkin and sunflower or adding in toasted nuts and adding in sprouts, porridge or whole grain be... |
Cherry Blueberry Sour Cream Starter?
So I was looking for something to bake tonight, found half a cup of ancient sour cream lurking in the fridge, as well as a container of well expired blueberries (which I reduced and strained into syrup), the remains of some cherry almond frosting, and a fairly soft Meyer lemon. This... | Try raising a levain
The way to find out is to do it! Try mixing a little of that stuff with a little flour, give it several hours and see if it rises. Other than the somewhat odd combination of ingredients and the improbable method of inoculation, in abstract it is basically a yeast water, which you can look up in the... |
first time trying the Tartine bread
Haven't started yet! But I need to get some help before I tackle this (I'm a newbie and still very confused).My question pertains to the timing. I have the time to start the levain the day before and also go through all the steps the next day--save the baking part. Let's say I'd lik... | Yes.
Mix levain on day 1mix dough on day 2, shape and put in fridge. Bake day 3. You can even mix leaven a day earlier and stick in fridge overnight when ready, that way the dough can be mixed first thing in the am since you will know levain is ready. |
steeel cut oats in sourdough - cooked vs Raw?
I am interested in trying some sourdough oat bread using steel cut oats. I want to either add them raw in an overnight soaker or cooked when I mix the final dough. Any thoughts about the relative merits of these approaches?
Presumably I will need to add more water than u... | Suggestion:
I'd use a soaker rather then cook them. cooking will gelatinize the oat's starch; which will occur in the baking anyway. I think you'll retain more subtle flavor this way. Steel cutting doesn't alter the oats any more than rolling them, except it results in less damage.
David G |
Definition
I frequently "Tartine" used to describe many of the SD loaves/methods here. Could someone clarify specifically what that means? All I've been able to extract is it's based on the SF bakery & seems to always have a boule shape. I've also seen that it's a preference that the loaves be cooked in Dutch ovens,... | "Tartine" is based on the
"Tartine" is based on the "Country loaf" described in the "Tartine" book. This is what it means to me: - Hydration of 77%- White ( = all kind of wheat types) bread, no or not much rye.- Long fermentation- Freshly built levain (no starter that has been in the fridge very long)- High amount of l... |
Tartine bread recipe starter
I have a white flour starter for about 14 days already, can i convert it to tartine starter recipe by mixing 50% white bread flour and 50% whole wheat for few days and convert or I need to do it from scratch? Is it because different flour composition attract different yeast or taste? I am a... | It will work.
You can use your starter in the Tartine bread recipes.You can also feed it 50/50 as well.If you feed any starter a few times with a new composition it'll essentially become a new starter relatively quickly, especially if you are discarding some of the old and adding some new. |
Tips for 100% whole wheat sourdough bread
Hi everyone, new baker here.Due to an unfortunate injury that left me home for a while, i decided to take up bread baking a few weeks ago, and I must say that I'm hooked. Currently, I mostly rely on Reinhart's whole grain breads book, which is great. I was able to bake some nic... | You may find something(s) in
You may find something(s) in THIS LINK.Whenever I read about a baker learning to bake 100% whole wheat the book,THIS BOOK comes to mind. Ther is a chapter called, “A Loaf for Learning” that is worth the price of the whole book. IMO, it is the very best for bakers new to 100% whole wheat. He... |
Sour sourdough
I finally managed to create a starter that seems to be doing what it's supposed to be doing. It is about 2 weeks old. I feed the starter every 12 hours 1:1.5:1.5, and it's all white wheat. I went ahead and baked a loaf (breadtopia's no knead sourdough).I let it bulk ferment for 18 hours, at temps between... | Same timeline...
Two days ago my starter was 12 days old (I think). I figured why not try it out? Except I just kind of winged it - ~3 heaping cups of bread flour, 1.5 cups of warm water, 1 tsp salt, and 1/2 cup of starter. I kneaded to a decent ball in stand mixer, let ferment ~2 hours (with a couple stretch & fold... |
Feedback on starter appreciated.
Hello! I'm a newbie trying to raise my first starter. I'm on about day 7 and the starter has never been really vigorous, it will double in size but nothing more.I started it with straight rye and pineapple juice (Dole) for three days adding equal amounts of each to build the base.Day ... | Looks good to me.
Keep in mind that you should feed it as the room gets warmer and wait (or skip feeding) when it dips under 70°F. For the next warm spell, try feeding 1:2:2 (by weight) and see what it does. Move it to a taller more narrow container to watch it rise and fall. |
Epic Failure?
I am on my 3rd round of sourdough starter. 2 were gifted, ended up throwing them in the trash. Started my own starter from scratch. I have weighed all ingredients, warmed the bottled water, etc. I have done EVERYTHING correct. The starter bubbles up nicely, all appears well. But it smells VERY stron... | Keep going and more details needed
If you want some ideas on how to proceed, a lot more details are needed. Over what time frame did this occur, what quantities of flour/water did you use, what consistency did you maintain it at, ambient room temp, feeding schedule,......all crucial bits of information.Just from the co... |
Success at last - but why???
Hi,I have been struggling along with my sourdough for about 11 months now and have had some successes and some failures – like most here I expect.However, the one thing that has eluded me is decent oven spring – I have tried all sorts of variations in recipe, ingredients, flour, hydration e... | Oven Spring
As far as I know oven spring is a function of gluten development, yeast/culture activity, and to some extent steam in the oven.So, for gluten development you need to use good flour, autolyse, mix/knead properly, pre/final shape properly, and proof the dough correctly.Yeast activity is pretty simple/clear, a... |
Sour Dough Starter Green?!
Hi,I decided to try Kevin Dunden's sour dough starter. The first day was fine, looked and smelled good. I used spring water and US bread flour.This evening I see some green on the top of the starter and it doesn't smell very good. I'm wondering if it is mold?Should I be concerned? Do I need t... | A picture is worth a 1000 words.
I can't see green mold forming overnight. But maybe some green fibers from a towel crept in there. I would spoon it out and see if it comes back. If so, start over and be sure your container is very clean and gas no soap residue. Note, the hooch may be greenish gray. That is normal. Pos... |
tiles versus perforated sheet pans for sourdough batards
Hiya... I've been baking for many years in an old dynasty gas oven. I've lined both racks with 4 x 4 tiles.. worked like a charm.I moved the 8 proofed batards from a couche to 2 silpain full size sheets, and put them directly on the tiles, with a pan of lava sto... | Maybe a different arrangement?
If your tiles were wall to wall in the oven, can you arrange them to leave a 1-inch or larger gap between the tiles and the oven walls all around? That might permit enough circulation to keep the oven temperature where you want it.Paul |
sourdough whole wheat and cocoa
Trying to get my family on board with sourdough whole wheat has been a little challenging. I like food that is nutrient packed but it also has to taste good or we aren't eating it, well unless I have a dinner experiment gone bad, yeah, we don't waste food ;)Many botched loaves has made m... | chocolate sourdough
There is an Italian rustic chocolate sourdough bread that I've made a couple times and it is delicious. Here is a link to the formula. |
Sourdough starter-all rye
My problem isn't really a problem per se. This is my second attempt at a starter. My first one was a 50/50 of ap and rye with equal part water and it went through a myriad of aromas before it finally started smelling good. Then I went into pre term labor and ended up spending about a month in... | It sounds wonderful!
What beasties dominate in your rye sour will determine the aroma, and who dominates can depend on time and temperature and the acidity of the sour and a few other things. You lucked out this time and skipped the stages where undesirable yeasts and bacteria dominate and produce foul odors. (Usually ... |
Report on a Long Dormant Starter
About 4 years ago I was given a cupful of starter from one of the great bread bakeries in San Francisco, given to me by a friend who works there. I was just starting out baking sourdough bread, and fed it religiously for about two years. Due to some personal issues, I stopped baking for... | I'm pretty sure it is one of the
hardest things in the world to do is kill a starter... I think you have to hire a hit man to torch it at 2,000 F. I've tried every other way but no luck so far:-) Glad yours is as tough as mine.Happy SD baking |
Progress.... I think
I hope this link works as reducing files to less than 2 MB seems to be beyond me....https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152307513470816&set=o.109878162373426&type=1&theater¬if_t=photo_commentI started my starter from Chelmer flour from Marriages of Chelmsford with just water.... took a few... | The 1 2 3 SD method is
good one that consistently produces a nice loaf. Yours looks pretty consistent with them. My 100% hydration starters never pour out as a glob. I have to get them out with a spoon. Yours sounds more liquid than that. Are you using weight or volume for your maintenance?No matter really, as yo... |
Help, is my sourdough starter moldy??
I've had a sourdough starter for a while now. This week I noticed it developing a hard skin on top when I didn't feed it frequently enough. But I concluded this to be normal. What I am not sure about is if it is moldy as well. There are some white spots on this hard skin, and while... | Mold comes in many colors.
Mold comes in many colors. But if worried, take a small amount from the bottom, Feed something like 25 to 1, keep warm and stir a couple 3 times a day. It'll be back to normal in a few days. Just did this with another user. All good in a couple days. Enjoy! |
Starter troubleshooting...
Attempting to get some sourdough coming out of my kitchen, so I went ahead and started a starter 5 days ago using instructions from King Arthur page (1 C whole wheat flour & 1/2 C bottled water). After a day, discarded 1/2 starter, added 1 C AP flour & 1/2 C bottled water...only water I'm us... | I wonder
... If there is enough water in your starter. Many instructions call for a 1:1 ratio, and you are using a 2:1. Would the extra water make the starter less dense and thus easier to expand and rise a bit?I am by no means an expert -- no doubt you will get many more informed people chiming in! |
Temperature influence on SF sourdough
I tried to follow the instructions in the blog on SF but never did get a "sour" starter. Just fruity and yeasty smelling. The blog I read said to have things at 70F (cool). In our house that wouldn't be cool. Our temp ranges from 64-68F. with the starter on the counter with ch... | Taste?
What does it taste like? Use all your senses with natural levain...,Wild-Yeast |
South African Sourdough Starter - Day 1
Hi. I am a bit frustrated here. I bought 3 sourdough starters from sourdo.com, Ischia, Camaldoli and South African. I tried the Ischia for 7 days and then the Camaldoli for 7 days but neither would start. So 2 weeks later and after a lot of wasted flour I am trying the South Afr... | What is the method?
What exactly have you been doing to activate these starters? I'm sorry I don't know what the procedure is. Each of those starters should have worked right on the first day, because they are supposed to be mature cultures already, and just need to be reactivated with a little flour and water. Perhaps... |
Pain de Campagne
I am a relative newcomer to this great site and have gained much from the great expanse of talent that share comments and suggestions here at FL. I have an Allan Scott WFO under construction and and am half complete. Have been trying to ramp up experience with baking breads and pizza and have been work... | simple fix
id recommend parchment paper in the Dutch Oven... you can try other things like cornmeal or wheat bran but parchment is your best bet |
Rye starter question
I have a KA starter that has been doing well for a bit over a year. It does really well on a Tartine style SD, a Deli style rye, and a Vienna SD bread, and of course pancakes & waffles. I feed it about once a week, let it sit out for 8-10 hours and then it goes back into the refrigerator.I decide... | Light rye works fine
I've used whole wheat, white wheat, light rye, and whole rye at various times in my current starter. They all work, but I have found that feeding with whole rye creates the most vigorous starter--it doesn't just double at its peak, but almost triples. Light rye is also vigorous, but not quite so mu... |
newbie
Hi, I love good bread, my dad was a baker in Ct for 60 years, I grew up on nice Jewish rye and hard rolls that you cannot get anymore, anyway I want to make rustic bread and bought a cast iron dutch oven and a pizza stone for the bottom (9"), I am flopping bad and cannot make anything worth eating, so I'm at the... | starting a starter
Sourdough cultures can sometimes have false starts in the beginning. Usually it resolves fine if you just keep feeding it for a few more days. How old was your starter?Rather than buy a starter, I would recommend giving Debra Wink's "Pineapple Solution" a try. It's probably the most evidence based sy... |
Poor rise - ?yeast killers
Just tried a sourdough with 50% seeded organic white and 50% organic wholemeal - this has worked well for me before. However this time in a fit of adventure, I added 50g pine nuts, 50g grated parmesan, a handful fo fresh basil and 2 cloves of garlic. It barely rose. Will any of these ingredie... | Garlic kills vampires but don't know about what
it does to yeast. I've never had any problem with any of those ingredients but vampires are another story..... |
High grain sourdough hybrid breads how to make them rise?
Hi i am making a bread based on the variety called Vogels which is a New Zealand / Australian high grain high ratio dough. The recipe is below... I made it first using only commercial yeast and it worked great i used 1/2 tsp of yeast and it would rise well in th... | SD isn't like commercial yeast and won't
raise a high % whole grain loaf like CY at all. I would try dropping the commercial yeast entirely, up the SD levain to 300 g and drop the vinegar too since the acids the LAB put off will do that job nicely all by itself so the vinegar isn't needed..After the gluten is develope... |
Lazy way to catch a sourdough starter
There is a very easy way to obtain a sourdough starter that involves a cup of flour, a cup of water, a glass jar or crock, and a clean dish cloth spread over the top of the jar or crock. The jar or crock must be immaculately clean to prevent cultivating undesirable fungi and bacter... | and a waste of flour
Stop. I know a lazier way, don't add anything for the first 3 days. and start with only 1/4 cups. There is no mention of temperature. This is an outdated recipe. |
new starter is weird
I started a pineapple juice based starter 6 days ago, and it was nice and bubbly and active on day 4. Then I started feeding it twice a day 1:5:5 with whole wheat flour. That's when things went weird. It does doubles and domes nicely after 7-8 hours, and stays domed and continues to go past doublin... | Different strokes for different folks
Every starter is a unique culture, and will look, act, taste and smell different from any other. However, there may be a small chance that you are feeding more often than necessary. If a good, strong yeasty smell is what you're going for, try one of two things. Feed at a lower rati... |
Mold after short trip
Hey everyone, Have a relatively new starter (4 months old?) that i've maintained daily with 50g starter 50g whole wheat flour (king arthur) and 50g water. Went away for 3 days, forgot starter on counter (covered) and found it covered in what looked like a layer of hooch but some of this veiny whit... | No picture showiing
Is it just me but the picture is not coming through. |
Is there a chemist in the house?
I wonder if the slimy qualities of some sourdoughs is a result of dexan being a fermentation product/intermedieate. Anyone analyzed this? | So...
...I have a degree in chemistry. Granted I don't really use any of that stuff in my line of work anymore, but I still know where to look to find quick answers. First, I've never heard of dexan (and according to quick search, the only dexan out there is "Dexan," which is about the same as Sudafed). Did you mean... |
I Have Started My Starter, Now What?
I am relatively new to the world of bread baking, and decided the other day to make my own sourdough starter. I need to feed it for one more day before it should be ready to take half away and store it in the fridge, so I am wondering, where do I go from here? I know that this first... | I also have a young starter
Hello MatteKat,I also have a young starter and I've started using it. The first loaf I made was ok I guess but the ratios were a little difficult to get right. So I asked around here and Khalid (MeBake) pointed me to this very useful formula of 1:2:3 (http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/9346/12... |
Delaying fermentation
I love my naturally risen breads. However, I'm trying to delay fermentation so I can mix dough one evening, and bake the next evening. I follow something like the tartine process. If I change the proportions of leaven to dough so that it will take 24 hours for the bulk ferment do you think the ... | i don't know about the tartine loaves
But Ken Forkish has a version that might fit your schedule. His sample timeline is to feed the levain at 9 am, mix the dough at 5 pm, shape at 8 am the next morning, and bake at noon. 27 hours total. Here's a rundown of the recipe.http://www.karenskitchenstories.com/2013/06/pure-le... |
Baking times
HiI hope all is good.I've been baking for a couple of years now and there is still a lot to learn. I use a Dutch oven and bake a 1000g loaf. I tend to put the oven on with the DO in it for an hour at top temp. Transfer dough carefully, replace lid and bake for 25 mins at highest, then remove lid reduce to ... | Definition of "overbaked"
You've been baking longer than me, but from what I've learned, there is no objective or standard definition of an absolute point where the bread is considered overbaked. So I define "overbaked" as the point where it is considered overbaked by the person(s) who will be eating it. I like mine ba... |
Sourdough garlic bread
I have been wanting to try this for some time now and I am very happy with the results!The formula is:70% hydration starter - 400 gramsKA AP flour - 765 grams + 235 grams from the starter - 100%Water - 535 grams + 165 grams from the starter - 70%Olive oil - 80 grams - 8%Salt - 20 grams - 2%2 whol... | I can't imagine what this tastes like?
but it has to be great with that crumb that would kill by looking at it alone:-) What a great idea for the roasted garlic - should be mellow enough after roasting.Well done and happy baking |
Honey Wheat/Mixed Flour Sourdough Loaf
I just started experimenting with my sourdough on creating bread recipes. With my bread machine I used to mix KA bread flour with WWheat, Spelt, Sprouted Wheat and Oat flours. So last night I thought I'd try sourdough with a mix of Kamut, spelt, sprouted wheat and oat flours alo... | That looks really good! Can
That looks really good! Can you post the recipe? |
Basic math question... How to change the hydration in a starter?
OK, my mother starter is 100% hydration. For a recipe I am working on, I want to use a 70% hydration starter.If I start with 150 grams of 100% starter, how do I build this to 450 grams of 70% hydration starter? The math escapes me. The problem is that the... | After posting this, I
After posting this, I remembered what Peter Reinhart wrote in The Bread Baker's Apprentice:Total flour weight = total weight / total percentage.TFW = 450 / 1.70 (170%) = 265 +-.So, 450 grams of 70% hydration starter would be 265 grams flour and 186 grams water. That is actually 451 grams, but I wo... |
breadtopia's no knead sourdough failure
I've been baking breadtopia's no knead yeast bread with reasonable success, so I tried it with sourdough today. It's got a great crust, but it's DENSE. The flavor is far superior to the yeasted version, though.Some measurements were the same; both 300g white, 143g whole wheat, bu... | You won't overproof at that
You won't overproof at that temperature in anywhere near that time. Either warm it up or take longer to proof. Wait until the dough looks and feels right and ignore the clock other than to note how long it takes for the next time under those conditions. |
Newbie with question about salt and hydration
Hi all,I've been 'lurking' on the sidelines for sometime now and I have to say that I have found the content of these pages invaluable to my quest for a respectable sourdough. But it's time I joined up!!As a bit of background - my mother and her mother ran a small bakers in... | Salt & hydration
To get a recipe using 1% salt, just use your present recipe and cut the amount of salt to half. The loaf will probably rise a little sooner, and the taste will change, but I would not expect any other change.In calculating the hydration of dough, I take into consideration all liquid and all flour, inc... |
Starter Sacrilege!!
I'm a bit wary to broach the following topic as I'm well aware of the hallowed place that wild yeast starter holds in the hearts of many TFLers. But I'm a little curious so here goes:I've seen discussions about converting dry yeast recipes into wild yeast recipes but what about the reverse? Say, for... | No problem!
Sruly,It should be no problem converting the recipe from SD to commercial yeast. Do just as you said and "fake a wild yeast starter by making a poolish and then building that into the levain" I think the easiest way would be that once the initial mix is done, treat it as if it IS a sourdough starter (sorta)... |
stretch and folds
Hi Fellow LoafersI usually do 4 sets of stretch and folds after autolyse. Today, I only have time to do one set. What should I do to strengthen my dough since I can't get the next 3 sets in . I was thinking of bringing my dough with me to my friend's place to do the s and f's but that seems kinda s... | Develop some strength up
Develop some strength up front with some form of kneading. For medium high hydration slap&folds are great, for very wet dough try Rubaud's method. For low hydration just "traditional" kneading. |
Little activity after 7 days -- used an old packet of dried starter
A week ago, I decided to try to revive a 10-year old packet of dried starter (from Sourdough Intl.). I had lost the packet in a move and found it during a file clean out! I was not hopeful about it, but thought I would give it a try. I have been fee... | Gone!
I think the starter is past saving, Start over using the "pineapple solution". I did not know how long the dried starter would last, but it seems that ten years is beyond its life,Ford |
Tartine Country Bread Bench Time
I've made quite a few Tartine Country Breads but after the bench time mine never spread into a thick pancake shape, rather just stay the same, round and high... I do 20-30 minutes as the book says. Does someone know what is wrong? Thanks for your advice! | are all your variables
The same as the book ?Room temp, hydration, fermentation time, dough temp,etc ? |
Purchased Sourdough Starters
There's been a recent discussion in the forum about activating purchased starters from Sourdoughs International. I'm curious - over time does a purchased starter maintain its unique flavour profile? It would seem to me that the type of flour you use to feed your starter (as well as the wa... | I would think if you feed with bleached flour
The bleaching process would reduce or eliminate cultures in the flour, giving less competition to the starter you are trying to preserve. This is just a guess, however.You should dry some of the starter and preserve it, as long as it has the characteristics you desire. Then... |
3-day Gluten-free Starter
Hi all, I haven't posted in a while but I've been busy developing a 3-day starter for sorghum flour, inspired by Ars Pistorica's whole wheat starter. Here's a link to see the process if you're interested:http://glutenfreegourmand.blogspot.com/2014/03/sourdough-starter-in-3-days.htmlI've been ... | Looks beautiful! How does the crumb look?
Love your loaf! It has a very nice crust but do you have a crumb shot? |
Sourdough bread is damp, help!
Hi all. So I'm a newbie sourdough baker, so far attempted only white high protein sourdough boules a few times. Here's what I'm doing - 50g starter, make a pre-ferment with 20g water & 15g flour (resting for 6 hours, I'm in sunny singapore), roughly mix in 150g water & 225g flour, rest f... | You could bake it for longer,
You could bake it for longer, on lower heat after the initial oven spring if it browns too fast. I'm fairly newbie to sourdough too :) |
Resting time for SD starter?
I have read instances where it was said to refrigerate the SD Starter after it has reached the right odor/consistency. is this true and for how long before I can use it? Once removed from the refrigerator, should it be fed and allowed another rest, again for how long? | Refrigerate for Storage
Some purists say that you shouldn't ever refrigerate your starter. Most home sourdough cooks do, though. You refrigerate it to avoid having to feed it every day, not as a step toward making it better. So once the starter gets to the right odor/flavor, you can store it in the fridge if you're ... |
SF Dough, ferments doesn't sour
I went through the process at the suggested site "abreadeducation" , waited and checked daily after a week. It did ferment lots of small bubbles but no sense of sourness at least in the odor. Before I try baking with it, should I detect some odor of "sour" or will this only sho... | It usually takes
10 days to 2 weeks for a new SD starter to be ready to bake a loaf of bread but it twill be slow and no where near it will; be in a month. Once it matures the SD smell will be there. |
Very sour, expensive sourdough, causes a sensation of vomitting
I don't understand what the purpose of making sourdough is, as it's both more expensive and less "good tasting" as the commercial yeast used. Of course, that may be something other sourdough bakers might not want to hear because in their sourdough making e... | Also, to add to my text above
Also, to add to my text above, I don't use salt in my dough because my dough hardly rises (the rise is very insignificant) and salt inhibits the growth of cells (yeast in this case), so adding salt to a poorly rising bread would only worsen it, if I am correct. |
Sourdough help and Tartine No. 3 Fermented Oat Bread
Ok, I'm new to sourdough breads. So far I've made 4, 2 pure levain and 2 with 0.2% instant yeast added. The latter 2 worked perfectly, of the 2 pure ones, 1 was inedible and didn't rise at all, 1 was ok but a little flat and a little too sour. (The utter failure was ... | SD bread takes patience
It may take 6 - 7 hours to be proofed at room temperature, With low levain inoculation mounts, I have some SD breads take 12 hours to proof on the counter. Be patient and watch dough - not the clock.Happy SD baking |
temperatures
I keep my starter on top of the fridge. At night, the temperature goes down to 62, and during the day it's more like 72. I've read that starter likes temps from 78-85 best. Am I going to mess with my starter's health with the temps I can provide?And just in general, what on earth do recipes have in mind wh... | It's pretty hard to hurt it.
Once a starter has been going for a while it's really hard to kill it. So don't worry about that.As you note, 'room temperature' is a misnomer. Whose room? Active starters like the 70-80F range. When it cools off in the evening on top of your fridge, your starter, just like you, nods off fo... |
Schwarzer Muckel
I want to try the Schwarzer Muckel recipe found on the Home Baking (Austria) blog (here). I have a couple of questions:The recipe calls for Roggenmalz dunkel or dark rye malt. I have chocolate rye malt (looks like mini coffee beans) and Fawcett’s red rye malt (reddish-brown). Which of these would be cl... | Muckel
is most likely a surname. Surname Muck + el suffixpronounced Mook-kel, long u short e |
Weight of sourdough starter?
Hello, I'm just going to ask a possibly silly question. My starter's total weight is 120g. About three days ago I had doubled the amount from 60g to 120g. After that, I started discarding 60g. But today, after feeding it, I noticed that there seemed to be less starter. So I weighed it, and ... | As NUMBER 5 would say...
Need more input! Tell us what all of your measurements and procedures are for feeding, discarding, etc. We don't know how much you're adding to the starter at feeding time, just how much you were taking out. The weight shouldn't change significantly through fermentation. There is somewhere else... |
Wild yeast over commercial yeast?
What is the difference between using these two? Is there an advantage, disadvantage? I am just curious because I have just been fermenting my bread dough for 12 - 24hrs using commercial instant bakers yeast. I'm wondering if I should be using a sourdough starter instead. | Hopefully you have been doing this
IY ferment in the fridge at 36 F. insead of on the counteradn you just used a pinch of yeast as well. I think you are heading for goo dough city personally. |
Percentage of sourdough starter?
Hi, I'd just like a little guidance on the percentage of sourdough starter in a recipe. I am developing a sandwich loaf recipe, but with sourdough, to reduce my reliance on store bought commercial yeast. However, I am a novice at sourdough. So what I'm asking is a rough percentage of s... | How much starter?
I would say about 30 to 55% starter (based on flour weight). True, others may use less, but that is where I would start. Then experiment to see which gives the flavor you desire. I would add all the starter to the preferment.If you want to increase the acid in the loaf then do your bulk fermentatio... |
Leaving starter without feeding it
Hi, I was wondering what might happen if I took my dough and left it for about a week or so, without feeding it. Could I still use it? Could I use it the way it is to bake bread like the no knead method, or would the gluten bread down after this long. Would putting in the fridge he... | I keep 100g of 66% hydration rye
starter in the fridge - no worries. It is in there for 4 weeks without feeding and I take 10-20 g of it a week to bake with and when it gets down to 10 g 15 g or so I feed it 3 times over 8 hours until it is 100 g and 66% hydration again . Once it rises 25% after the 3rd feeding about... |
I need some starter help!
I recently have tried to make my own natural yeast start. I am using whole wheat flour that nothing has been added and nothing removed. I started with 2 tbsp. Pineapple juice and 2 tbsp flour. I did that for a couple of days per instructions. Then I started to see bubbles on like the 3rd da... | Are you feeding by weight
or by volume? IF you feed by weight then equal amounts of four and water, if you feed by volume then 1/2 cup of flour and 1/4 cup of water. I don't remember any vinegar in D. Wink's instructions? Don't put it n. The pineapple juice is the acid and only for the first couple of days or so If... |
100% Whole Wheat and Sourdough Science
I've taken interest in the different types of breads on the market and what they do to your body. It is interesting to see that studies are being done showing whole wheat breads to be less of a good thing for the body than what has been drilled into our heads. However, these stu... | I would agree with your
I would agree with your assessment. Most studies are done on commercial products that many of the readers of this site would not buy. Sourdough made with a health conscious eye is a different and superior product.Jeff |
Troubleshooting Levain
Hi everyone,I've finally decided to wade into the deep end of the pool and make my own starter/levain. I've used two methods so far, one given in Reinhart's BBA, and the other in Forkish's FWSY. The only think I changed was using pineapple juice for the first two day's of Forkish's method to try ... | I never used pineapple juice
I never used pineapple juice but I have to say, I never managed to make a good levain in just 5 days. I always needed at least 2 weeks. (I was able to bake with it after 6 days but with proving times of 2 hours or more with a very high percentage of levain.)The first 2 to 3 days I always ha... |
SF sourdough starter recommendations?
I can make regular sour dough with success but have been hungry for SF sourdough. So many are listed if I do a search. I would appreciate recommendations for one that works and stays true. | David Snyder's
San Joaquin http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/14140/san-joaquin-sourdough-another-variation-produces-best-flavor-yetor even better herehttp://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/33123/san-joaquin-sourdoughYou can make it as a baard, boule or one of the best SD baguettes aroundThen there is David's fantastic nSFSD ... |
I'm in love with wild yeast!
I started my sourdough starter on January 18th of this year. I am following Peter Reinhart's method in The Bread Baker's Apprentice. It amazes me how easy this is. Just flour and water. I spent nearly 20 years buying and using packaged yeast. Nothing tastes quite like wild yeast raised brea... | Young starters
struggle when it comes to sour just as they can struggle to raise a loaf of bread. Hopefully the sour will get better as it matures but it may not. If it doesn't then you can take some steps to make it more sour too.The bread looks great and the baskets will need less flour as they age. I think most f... |
Long bulk rise vs. short proof ?
If I want to do a long overnight rise of my sourdough, I have to do it in the initial container because if I bulk rise it for 4 hours and then move to the proofing baskets they will continue to rise outside of the size of the proofing basket.Is this ok? Do I need to do a long basket pro... | Sure
That should work. Another way, one I often do, is to do the bulk rise on the counter then shape the loaves and retard them overnight in the fridge. Take them out of the fridge, heat the oven and pop them in. |
Using Up Milk
[Off the cuff recipe hence the unfed starter. Used up some milk and enough starter so I can give it a good feed with no discard]RECIPE:280g strong bread flour100g golden wholegrain flour [confirmed by Lance as white whole-wheat]100g wholegrain spelt flour20g dark rye flour(?) water110g milk10g salt50-70g ... | Handsome wholesome loaf Abe,
Handsome wholesome loaf Abe, love your off the cuff bakes, they show a lot of skill and baking intuition. What is the golden wholegrain, is that a brand name?Benny |
Starter has higher peak when fed at a lower ratio
When I feed my starter at a 1:1:1 (starter:flour:water) ratio, it peaks at around triple its original volume.When I feed it at higher ratios, e.g. 1:5:5, it peaks closer to double the original volume.Any idea why that would be the case? | How long does it take to peak
How long does it take to peak in these conditions?It's possible longer time lets more acid accumulate and at some point gluten starts degrading, so it can't hold up any more. |
what hydration is this starter?
20g starter - 100% hydration40g flour40g water Is this still a 100% hydration starter?Thanks! | Yes
yes - the only difference is that it weighs 80 grams more and some might call it a levain. |
Water: filtered vs tap
I've been nagged by the question of whether using tap water, virtually all of which is treated with various anti-microbial chemicals (e.g., chlorine) has an adverse affect on the yeast on which we all rely for our bread.I decided to test this with my starter. I took two containers and seeded eac... | Preview fails, Save works
While the preview fails, apparently the Save does work and you can see the photographs of the two batches. |
Slightly moldy starter
Hello all :)I've been making sourdough's for a while, but I'm an irregular baker - so after a phase of baking I tend to bin my starters, and make a new one whenever the next baking phase strikes! Anyway, I began making a new wheat flour starter 6 days ago; it bubbled after 24 hours, and looked/sm... | Moldy starter
First, here is a link to another post on TFL dealing with moldy starter:http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/5372/mold-inside-my-starter-jar-friend-or-foeBottom line: you can scoop, scrape, or otherwise excavate out the moldy parts and push on, if you think your starter seems otherwise healthy. If the mold is... |
Sourdough smells weird
Hi, I just recently started a new sourdough starter( It's the Finland Sourdough Culture from Sourdoughs International), which had been sitting in the fridge, unopened, for at least 2 years, maybe longer. I've had it going for about a week, and from the beginning it had an odd and unpleasant smell... | leuconostoc?
I noticed an off-aroma (like salt-rising bread dough) when I started with whole-wheat flour and water alone. Debra Wink[1] discovered this was due to a strain of bacteria called leuconostoc that seems to be more prevalent in flour now than it was formerly. This bacterium is self-destructive as it produce... |
My first starter
Ok I am on day three of my starter. Not sure what I am looking for but this is what I have:- In the morning I have a few bubblesI seem to have a batter and an oily looking liquid which folds back in.Smell slightly bland bit like just a wet batter really. I am splitting it in the mornings and adding 10... | Looks a bit better today,
Looks a bit better today, more sign of bubbles and a definite fermentation smell. |
My latest sourdough
I decided yesterday to try making a loaf with a higher hydration as it was mentioned before that the recipe I was following was only 62% hydration and could do with being a bit higher.So I made up the dough yesterday afternoon, kneaded it for a bit, put it in a bowl and over a few hours just did a f... | I think it looks lovely!
We are about on a par experience-wise, so I'm not going to offer any advice, but it looks super delish to me! |
Dutch oven size for final proof of 1 lb loaf
I have managed to make my mini oven turn out a couple of decent loaves now. My biggest problem has been making a mess when transferring from banneton to hot Pyrex dish. I'm going to try rising the dough in the dish next time and cooking from cold. I'm pretty certain that th... | This might work better for you!
I like to do one of 3 things. I take the knob off the lid of my smallest Martha Sewart DO and close the hole with a wet chopstick piece . Transfer into hot DO with parchment from a peel. Works greatOr use 2 of Sylvia's streaming Pyrex cups, half full of water with a dish rag in it pla... |
Overnight Country Gloop
Hi all,I've only been baking bread a short while but am hooked already after my first good loaf, a nice crusty white baked in a dutch oven. But my spirits have slumped these past few days after trying and failing twice at an overnight country blonde, from Ken's book Flour Water Salt Yeast.My fir... | Expectations
I think for many people the move from "standard" hydration loaves to higher hydrations tends to challenge ones expectations. The dough behaves very differently and typically doesn't hold itself in the same way as lower hydration loaves. When you turn out a normal loaf it stands there proud and ready to b... |
Doubling No-Knead Sourdough Bread Recipe - Yay or Nay?
I use the no-knead recipe from: Newe Start Farm: http://www.newestartfarm.com for sourdough bread. It makes a one-pound loaf. If I double the recipe, should I it as one large loaf without extending the baking time? I usually bake the one-pound loaf at 425 degrees... | Nope
Divide the dough before the bench rest and make two loaves if you want to keep same bake times. Otherwise a larger loaf will require longer bake time. |
Levain on a jet plane
Has anyone traveled with their starters? I'm flying (15 hours) to central america next week to visit my mother. Really want to bring her some levain magic and bake her some goods!Any suggestions?Paz,Bryan | when I flew with mine I fed
when I flew with mine I fed it a few days prior to the flight so it was good and healthy, but not producing gasses like crazy. then i double bagged it in those press and seal baggies, labeled it as sourdough starter and tossed it in with my clothes. I didn't have any problems. |
Baked sourdough bread gets more sour with time
Hi Everyone,I bake a French country loaf quite regularly using a firm sourdough starter. The loaf turns out well and, the first day, has very little sour flavour. The next day the sourness is more pronounced and the day after it borders on tasting too sour.Could anyone hel... | How much lemon juice did you
How much lemon juice did you use? 200g is way too much! |
Can Sourdough cause Allergic Reactions or Allergies?
Curious if Sourdough (starter etc) can induce Allergies. Or can one have an allergy to sourdough starter/bacteria?Anyone experienced/heard of this? | I haven't heard of except for
I haven't heard of except for with people that already can't eat wheat products. In fact It's usually the other way around, people that can't eat bread made with commercial yeast but can eat sourdough bread.I'm sure it's possible though. |
Need an overnight sourdough
Do you have a recipe for white sourdough bread that has a final rise of about 8 hours? I want to bake a loaf first thing in the morning, without having to get up in the middle of the night (professional bakers must have a terrible social life). It should probably use only sourdough for leave... | Easy
Janet ... No special recipe. Just get everything to the point where you shape the dough last thing in the night, place it into whatever pans/molds you are going to use, cover them lightly with some plastic and pop them into the fridge. Next morning, preheat the oven and when it is up to temp, take the loaves out o... |
Starter vs. Levain?
I assumed they were one in the same… can someone clear up the vernacular for me? I "know" starter is a mixture of flour, water and salt (traditionally) that is left to ferment, and I'm not going to imply it should be fed or left alone since there are as many recipes for starter as there are for anyt... | Practical difference
A levain may be just a portion of your starter, and therefore exactly the same, or it may be very different. It can be dryer, or it can be wetter than your starter. It can have different flours, or other ingredients that you don't want in your starter. Basically, your starter is meant to be kept fa... |
Getting ready to try bread in my tiny oven.
I've taken my starter out of the fridge and it's doing it refreshing thing on the work table in the kitchen. Tomorrow, I will make bread and some sticky buns. The recipe usually makes 4 loaves. Now, if the loaves do not fit in the oven, one of my neighbours will get a fran... | You'll have to stagger them
having them rise in different times. yep, a little oven has smaller pans and is limited on dough size. There was a time I cut the end off my roll of parchment so the roll fit the small trays with one cut. I'll bake the sticky buns for you (tongue in cheek with puppy dog eyes) if you need ... |
Last night's 2/8/14 bake results
Here is a picture of my sour dough boules from last night's attempt. I used 1/2 hard red winter and 1/2 soft spring wheat with a wild yeast starter. It was fun as always.Richard | Those are some very nice
Those are some very nice looking wholegrain loaves! |
Dough is dry can I add more water after mixing
My starter grew so much this morning that it went right over the top of the jar and all down the sides so I decided to quickly make a loaf of bread, not realising that I had obviously lost some of the starter with all the mess. So I weighed out the 460g of flour and then ... | Sure thing. Add a tbsp if water and see how it works
If still dry add another until it is the correct consistency. I would have used the starter needed for the recipe and just fed what was left enough to build up to what you need next time. |
100% WW+Rolled Oats+Flax SD results
Levain:100% WW starter at 100% hydration, total 30gFed 15g WW, 15g Water, put in smoker @ 92F for 4 hoursFed 30g WW, 30g Water, put in smoker @ 92F for 2 hoursFed 75g WW, 75g Water, put in smoker @ 92F for 2 hoursReserved 30g of starter as motherDough Ball:Combined 94g rolled oats, 3... | Overproofed
I think your bread was overproofed when you put it in the oven. I wonder that it rose at all in the oven. Why did you S&F it again (and even twice!) after the bulk retardation?Karin |
Natural gluten in starter - good or bad?
Is it ok to stir your starter and develop the natural gluten? Is there any point, benefits or faults to this? Thanks! | It makes no difference.
It makes no difference. |
my first sourdough recipe - thoughts
Tell me if I have my thinking correct on making a recipe:take 30g of refrigerated starter (100% hydration) out on Wed AM and add 30g water and 30g flour = 90g starteron Wed PM (after 12 hours) add 90g water and 90g flour to 90g starter = 270g starterput 270g starter in fridgeon Satu... | Your proof times seem quite
Your proof times seem quite low for a naturally leavened bread. While it depends on your room temperature, the activity of your starter and the type of flour, a 30 minute first proof time is extremely low. I'd suggest doing stretch and folds every 45 minutes and then extend your final proof ... |
Sourdough Boule w/ Banneton & Cast Iron Dutch Oven
80% hydration, 100% Gold Medal Unbleached All Purpose White Flour. (Just flour, water & salt.) 890 grams of dough pulled from my dough bin (dough aged 2 days in the fridge), folded a couple times, formed into a ball, floured and thrown into a rice flour lined banneto... | Wow! That looks awesome!
I'm hungry for a Reuben now, because of you! I hope you're happy! No, really, I hope your sandwich made you happy. It looks delicious. The bread looks perfect. The pastrami looks great. Everything is beautiful! |
Stretch & Fold Practices for larger batches.
I'm curios how commercial bakers handle stretch and folds in larger batches. I own a coffee shop and we are moving form 10kilo sourdough bagel batches to 30. I'm assuming I just put into multiple proofing boxes and stretched from there but I wasn't sure if there were any oth... | Check out videos from the
Check out videos from the Proof bakery on youtube, nice insight into the backstage of a commercial bakery. |
Acidify Rye Starter?
Hi, I am new to sourdough and started my first starter about a week ago. It's a real mess of craziness, as I began with AP + water (non-chlorinated) then it began to smell funny so I added pineapple juice, whole wheat flour and a dash of dark rye flour. After reading all the stories of success I th... | Starter woes
It is my understanding (though I'm no expert) is that the acidification process in the starter is a result of the different types of yeast and bacteria colonies establishing themselves and influencing the Ph of their environment. As the starter developers and matures the preferred colonies of yeast and bac... |
My first sourdough! Suggestions?
I just finished baking my first sourdough bread - using the Vermont sourdough formula in 'Bread'. My starter is about 2 weeks old and triples in volume between feedings (once per day). The flavour is good but I think the loaf could be somewhat larger and the crumb, while uniform, seems ... | A beautiful loaf regardless...
Two thoughts.Possibly you over-proofed. Did you poke the dough to see if it sprung back, that's the alleged indication that proofing is done. Proofing too much could leave you with no oven spring.Did you bake at a high temperature (e.g. 425F)? If so, did you provide steam? If not, your c... |
Ordering mini oven
I am trying to save money on my gas bill (big old range cooker) without giving up my sourdough baking. I have ordered the Klarstein Omnichef 30 Mini Electric Oven 1500W 31 LitresIt appears that there is an option for top and bottom heat with convection, but no option for bottom heat plus convection o... | I don't know anything about
I don't know anything about that oven, but if you decide to get another I recommend the $249 Breville oven on Amazon.com. |
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