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Sourdough starter w/Chia seeds Hi! I'm looking to make a sourdough baguette with chia seeds. I can't figure out if I should add the chia seeds in with the starter or add it in when I go to mix all ingredients and make the dough. I'm planning to do a whole white wheat bread. Thanks!	Chia seeds take on water and depending on the amount used, could dry out the starter or dough. I add 4 times their weight extra water to the dough recipe. What's the recipe?
sourdough bread in bread pan Hi, I'm new to this type of baking and this forum so forgive me if this is a stupid question. I have regual sourdough and herman sourdough and I'm interested in incorporating these into my regular recipes/baking. Also, I would love hints/directions/recipes on making sandwhich bread in a bre...	what is it you are asking? Are you asking how to make bread in a loaf pan? Or are you asking for the very basic instructions about how to make bread? A good place to start for how to make a basic sandwich bread in a bread pan is here: http://www.sourdoughhome.com/bakingintro3.html. There are extensive directions a...
dough super wet My 5 sourdough productions so far have ranged from edible to only chicken feed worthy. Most recently I used this recipe: http://artistta.blogspot.com/2011/11/easiest-sourdough-bread-recipe-i-know.html, and it's in the quite edible category. But I think almost everything went wrong and I just kind of sal...	That's a pretty wet formula The formula is pretty wet - upwards of 80% hydration - but that is probably because the original author uses 100% whole wheat flour, which needs more water than white flour. So it makes sense that it is pretty gloopy. Something in the 70% or so hydration range will be a lot easier to handle...
Overproofed? Does this look like overproof to you? I've been having trouble recently getting my dough to rise because it's gotten pretty cold lately. I think I've gone to far the other way now.I usually do a preferment the day before baking, then bulk proof the final dough in the fridge overnight. In the morning I divi...	Well, usually, when there is Well, usually, when there is still so much oven spring it is a sign for the dough having been underproofed.
starter develops skin while rising my starter has developed a skin when I feed while I'm waiting for it to rise.Normally it does a rather nice double in about 6 hours.Though it is rising, it'a no quite double, and I suspect it' somewhat impeded by the skin.Should I add more water to the feed?House is at 60f most of the...	maybe a dumb question, but do maybe a dumb question, but do you cover your starter? where do you live? it's winter time in my part of the world, so things are considerably more dry (including my own skin! :) ), that could be contributing.I've never had a covered starter develop a skin, AFAIK
Starter I am not having any luck making my own starter.I tryed the Peter Reinhart method which was 1/4 cup whole wheat and 1/4 cup pinapple juice? I have been stiring and after 4 days still no movement. I added another 1/4 cup plus 1/4 cup of pinappple juice after that. Is there another recipe i should try that might ...	Patience Have patience. The little beasties need time to wake up after their long sleep. The preferred method of measurement is by weight -- it is more accurate. Use equal weights of flour, water, and starter. A cup of flour weighs about 4.25 oz. and a cup of water weighs about 8.3 oz. Check out Debra Winks' pinea...
Starter fine, levain smells super strange, please help me! Hi everybody! this is my first post here, I just introduced myself in the introduction section.I hope you can help me out here. I have a starter that bubbles nicely and regularly and has recently been refreshed. It performed well and was fed with white flour.Ye...	@lls ... flour might make a difference ... I have noticed that my starter smells of vinegar when I feed it rye flour, and less so if I feed it white flour.If your starter doubles reliably, I don't see any reason why you should try to use it ... I am not an expert, however, so YMMV.-Dave
pH Guided Dough Processing I chanced upon a new Youtube video by The Bread Code about using a pH meter as an aid to deciding on process step changes in breadmaking.If this is an area that interests you it might be worth a watch.Personally, my pH guided breadmaking has not been entirely successful yet. In my last bake I...	struggled to get to pH 4 struggled to get to pH 4.40What kind of dough was that? Curious.
Dry on top of sour I have a starter I use twice a week. It's doubling when I feed it and turning out tasty loaves. The only thing is it's started "drying out" between feedings. I use it twice a week as I said, and feed it both the day before I plan to use it and also the day I use it, so I'm feeding it at least 4 times...	Do you keep a lid on it? I haven't ever heard of anyone keeping their starter at room temperature and feeding less than once a day, although there is no technical reason it couldn't work, as you obviously know. As long as it's turning out delicious loaves, I wouldn't be concerned about the skinning.But, if it becomes a...
Sourdough starter Okay this is my first time making a starter and I must admit I haven't been precisely measuring. I'm not a precise kind of person. ;) Anyways, I'm on day 7 and my starter is quite active almost tripling in 3-4 hours. The problem? is it still smells pretty strongly of alcohol. I keep it on the counter ...	Starter maintenance First, you should probably be discarding at every feeding by now. If not, you will soon find that your yeasties eat more than you do, and if you continue past that, you will soon find you have nowhere to sleep. Alternatively, you can find a use for the discard, as you've done in making pancakes. But...
how to make half of a recipe My sourdough baking results have been mixed, though edible. Since I'm a beginner, I expect this to happen, but I also am the only one eating my productions, which takes quite a while with recipes producing 1.2 kilo loaves, and 1.2 kilos of mediocre bread isn't that much fun.So, I wonder how...	Consider giving this a try it's an easy formula and best of all, you can make as small or large a loaf as you wish. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/9346/123-easy-formula-sourdough-bread
My thanksgiving sourdough loaves Hey guys sorry it's been foreverBeen busy with work and what not I got the chance to fly home for thanksgiving so I quickly revived my starter and baked up a couple loaves! Here is how they came out	Very nice, Ratatouille. Very nice, Ratatouille. Fantastic crumb.
Effects of long rise in cold environment? I use the Tartine method and recipe. 25 grams of starter plus 50 grams white flour 50 grams wheat flour and 100 grams water overnight as leaven.Mixed with 1000 grams flour mix, salt, and 800 grams water. Usually I let it rise like 4-8 hours as it's typically quite cold in SF, s...	one man's guess Letting your dough rise in a colder environment gives the dough a longer time to sour. For an example, see all the San Francisco sour dough recipes that call for quite extended periods of cold bulk fermentation. In the colder environment the yeast produces less gas, explaining the slower rise.I'm look...
Questions after first attempt at Sourdough First attempt at making sourdough bread. This is my first attempt at sourdough bread. I used 5 1/2 oz 100% hydration starter, 17 1/2 oz KA bread flour, 13 oz water, 1/4 oz of salt. I am really happy with the crust, would like a little more open and less chewy crumb, but this b...	@Gumbeaux ... 1st SD I am not expert but here are a few things I've picked up here ... 1. How old is your starter? Seems that the more mature starters tend to impart more sourness.2. Did you have a cold fermentation? Evidently the lactic acid bacteria (the stuff that makes the sour flavor) like a nice long cold ferment...
Crumb shot of Cherry Chocolate Espresso Sourdough AND formula lol This is my take on a bread by Emmanuel Hadjiandreou in How to make Bread with a few variations including an overnight fermentation. This bread is NOT overly sweet so don't be turned off by that! 330 g white bread flour (I used KAF Organic High Gluten bu...	Nice bread Yummm! Looks delicious. ;) Is the colour all from the espresso or from melted chocolate / cocoa powder?thanks
Starter Selection Despite years of SD baking, I remain confused about which/why/how much starter is used - mainly the selection of flours. I've used high and low hydration white and whole wheat flours, but not a rye-based starter. Maybe there are others to try, but I'm most curious about the rye. For white/wheat, I'...	yep, yep, maybe; maybe; hard to say You haven't really hit starter nirvana until you've had a good whiff of ripe rye starter. Ok, what confuses you about how much starter to use? Does it help to picture the little beasties? They eat food. We give them food and water and a warm place to live. Water hydration can var...
Some bread recipe questions I've now made this bread a few times: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23061/extremely-sourdough-soft-sandwich-bread-most-shreddble-soft-velvety-everIt it's very yummy and even my 8yo likes it, which is a first. But it is very rich and I think it really is more suited to making a fruit loaf ...	Ah, txfarmer's lovely loaf :) It does not read so rich and the thread comment section answers just about all your questions. Raisins can be sprinkled out on flattened dough and rolled in while shaping for the final rise. I would soak the raisins first in water, milk or juice before tossing into the dough unless they'...
Sourdough, a Stand Mixer, and Expectations Hello all, So I've recently graduated with an MFA, and my girlfriend's father sent me an extremely generous gift--the Kitchen Aid Professional 550 Series. I mean, wow, really. I've read on this site the good bad and ugly about this, and alternative mixers--and that's all good ...	Dough hook or paddle? I'll admit I haven't used my KA for bread dough (my breadmaker kneads for me) but have read of people recommending initial mix with paddle then switching to dough hook after. Hopefully someone with first-hand knowledge will chime in...
Apple water starters Seeing lot of folks using apple water starters do these starters retain long term ?ie once started can they be kept just like any other starter or do they revert to whatever the local environment promotes ? thanks, L	I’ve had mine for years I find that Granny Smith or another tart apple is best. I moved my starter from AL to Va back to AL and then back permanently to Va. No loss no harm as far as how it acts it’s dependent on what you feed it seems not where you are. I use a clean clear plastic qt container with snap on lid. I fill...
New member question on San Joaquin Sourdough I am new to this group and would like to try this sourdough recipe but i have a few questions from a novice. I have been making Italian bread only and have just started using a Biga and the results are good so now to try this. I see the recipe but it calls for Liquid Levain?...	@jafwiz ... windowpane on SJSD jafwiz:I've made several attempts at SJSD and have had fair success. It is a high hydration dough and thus is very slack ... not sure you'll be able to windowpane test this if you follow the recipe and use all of the water called for in the instructions. With that said gluten development ...
Local Flour Hi Everyone,I keep on baking even though I have been away from TFL for a while. My bakes are mostly the high hydration, crusty, burnished sourdough loaves, and I am really liking the flavors and textures I can get using pre-soaked whole wheat type flours. I am mostly following the Chad Robertson method, whi...	You might try not treating You might try not treating the two flours the same. you may have to experiment with the new (local) flour in terms of hydration, proofing times and so forth. Pay attention to how the CM AP / BRM dough feels and looks at the different stages of your process and then strive to coax the Westwind...
Cherry Chocolate Espresso Sourdough This is my take on a bread by Emmanuel Hadjiandreou in How to make Bread with a few variations including an overnight fermentation. I can post a formula if anyone is interested. This bread is NOT overly sweet so don't be turned off by that!Crumb shot to follow..	Cherries, chocolate and espresso all work together so why not in bread? Sounds deliciousHappy Baking.
How long is too Long for bulk fermentation? So I believe I have a good starter. It rises regularly when fed and seems to rise any loaf I make in a reasonable amount of time. Oh and it tastes good in the finished product, at least to me. I am kind of puzzled at the bulk fermentation time. I've seen everything from 1 to ...	Too long is when your starter caves in, looks really dark, has a watery puddle on top, smells like cheese, or, worse, sprouts little fuzzy hairs. But even then it's usually salvageable, if you remove the top layer with a spoon down to where it still looks good.I do not maintain a starter on my countertop, anyway, I kee...
Converting Sourdough Recipes To Yeast Recipes My husband will not eat sourdough bread. I have Nancy Silverton's Book and it appears that all or most of the recipes calls for starter. How can I change that. The book is a gift and I don't want to exchange it, if that is even possible. The book is Breads From The La B...	it's reasonably simple Substitute flour(s) and water equivalent--by WEIGHT-- to the flour(s) and water quantities in the prescribed starter replacing the starter. The most accurate substitution will be accomplished knowing the weight of the flours and water. Also add the appropriate amount of yeast for the amount of do...
Grain-Specific Sourdough Starter, Plus Community Qs Hey Y'allI am wondering how different people keep their starters. My first question has to do with grain-specific starters. Many a rye-bread recipe I've seen has called for a starter dedicated to rye flour (at least 75% rye flour). I don't make enough rye bread for th...	Starters are simple I usually ignore any parts of a recipe that start asking for something specific in a starter. That's because I generally add very little starter so that I get a long rise. However, the once in a while when I am inclined to do something like a rye starter, I take out a new jar, put in just a bit (7 t...
Uncooperative leaven - cold temps & slow going Hello,I've been getting reasonably successful with my Tartine starter and breads, but now that the temps have dropped I am facing new challenges.I mixed my 1tbsp starter with 200g flour and 200g water last night. As of this AM, it was no where near ready, so I put it aside...	with the colder weather you do have to shift your feeding tactics. Either find a warm place to mature the starter or use a larger portion of starter in the next build. You can easily double or triple the starter amount to get the same times as before. The starter is slow, find a warm spot so it can peak so you can f...
SD Causes Migraines? So my family has been enjoying my SD loaves despite the fact that I'm having seriously mixed results. The last 2 weekends my wife has been experiencing migraines (after eating SD bread and SD waffles) ... yesterday she googled "causes for migraines" and came up with a site that indicated SD and "fr...	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
We 3 gmas baked Alaskan Sourdough This week started with Barbra tossing out the idea to make Alaskan Sourdough... Me spotting a comment from another TFLoafian about Lucky Clover Trading Co...and Helen sending for Brotforms for she and I... Now, we two younger sisters can have breads that look like our sister Barb's bea...	I've got a YW levain I just started for some baked spudnuts - on Monday since it is too late today to get them done! Congrats on the baskets! Your bread won't know the difference but Lucy will! All the baking looks very well done as usual. The little sister is starting to really get her plates together with all th...
Adding onions to recipe I'm trying to add fresh, carmelized onions to a wild yeast whole wheat bread recipe. Any ideas on how much "water" I should consider being added to the recipe from these onions? Would it be half the weight? 1/4? I know it will be just an estimate, but I'd like to have a staring point for my hydr...	Raw Onions are 90% water According to the Colorado State University Extension flyer concerning feeding onions to livestock, "They are 90 percent water...."http://www.ext.colostate.edu/impact/cull-onions.pdf
Uneven crumb - Underproof or poor shaping? Hi, would love to get the opinion of yous gurus if the uneven crumb is likely a result of underproofing or poor shaping?Thank you in advance! any thoughts much appreciated. Sorry I'm not sure if I'm calculating this correctly but this is my recipe.White bread flour: 85% (340g)...	uneven crumb? I'll take it! Jp, If the pic posted next to your entry is an example of "uneven crumb," I'll take it! Looks like a great bread with good volume. Presumably you would like that open, hole-y feature throughout the middle of the loaf as well. What types of flour were you using? Fermenting and proofing tim...
Another Starter Question So my starter won't start... and my wife said to let it sit for a few days, which I did. Last night I noticed it very smelly and bubbly. So, I decided to feed it and will see if I can make bread again tomorrow using it. This morning it looked very bubbly on top and had a nice vinegary smell...	toxic Would take a long time. Think of it as a child. it needs to be fed and use it's energy before feeding again. But if it's hungry and doesn't get fed for a long time it gets weak and cranky and won't perform as you'd wish. When a starter peaks you either make bread with it or feed it to peak again. There are n...
My starter not starting? I've been cultivating a starter now for about two weeks according to the steps given in Tartine Bread. Today I tried the float test after a night of letting the leaven ferment. It failed the test. Book says to move to warm environment, which I did in my toaster oven for about an hour.... s...	Starter Ken:I am no expert although I hope that some of those experts on this board chime in.Have you read the threads here about starter and problems?What is your feeding schedule? What ratio do you use (starter:water:flour)? What type of flour are you using?What does the starter smell like?Does the starter double in ...
Sourdough not sour enough I've started out with sourdoughs and longer fermentation times a couple of months ago and bake without using any extra bakers' yeast. The resulting loaves have excellent texture, crumb, taste (more on that just below). But...they're not sour enough (unless when making a >=50% rye, then it's ...	More sour To get more sour retard your shaped loaves in the refrigerator until fully proofed (overnight about 8 to 12 hours) then bake,If that is not sour enough for you, then bulk proof in the refrigerator in addition to the final proof.Ford
Yogurt Whey in a sourdough = No gluten? So I made yogurt last night, and I had about a cup and a half of whey after I strained it. My girlfriend used a half cup in muffins, leaving a cup left over. About to make a loaf of sourdough, I replaced a cup of water with the whey. I did about 1.5 cups of 8-hour old starter. I ...	What your describing happens What your describing happens when there's excess acidity in the dough. The gluten is there but it's very taut but it won't stretch much and consequently tears. An autolyse helps. Essentially what your dealing with is a dough that is excessively strong.
Repeated sourdough fail ... could you offer some advice? I recently tried the San Joaqin Sourdough in concert with a WIld Yeast Sourdough Starter. Starter was started about 3 weeks ago, 1st SJSD was last weekend and 2nd SJSD was baked last night. 2nd loaf is definitely better than the 1st but is still not right (flat,...	I forgot to add that the I forgot to add that the starter was started in accordance with the instructions on the URL I posted, and I eventually transitioned from KAF whole wheat flour to the local supermarket's unbleached all purpose flour. At 100% hydration the starter was very much like thin/runny pancake syrup.The S...
Calculate flour amount in starter I'm trying to calculate the amount of flour (and water) in a certain number of grams of starter. The hydration is at 60%. I know that in 160 grams of starter, there are 100 g of flour and 60 of water, but what if I have a smaller or larger amount of starter in my recipe?Here's the calc...	The way I figure out how much The way I figure out how much water and flour to use in a formula is by first finding out how much flour I want pre fermented and then the rest is simple.I generally use 15% of the total flour in most of my breads in my starter.If I am using 500g of flour I first multiply 500 by 15% to get...
Slight off-smell and (perhaps) orange mold on starter I've been cultivating a new starter for about 2.5 months: white with a little rye as a yeast transporter (I've done this before with good results). Had no trouble getting it going. Added a little lemon juice at the beginning to offset leuconostoc infestation. Fed re...	You might be able to save it You do have some nastiness growing . Carefully brush aside the top growth and carefully take a small amount from the interior/bottom to use as an inoculant in a clean jar. I would wash your hands well before,during and after this and possibly boil the clean jar to reduce the microbial popul...
starter not "doubling in size" I am new to all of this, having only made waffles and pancakes from my extra starter so far. My plan was to bake bread today but as it turns out I realize I have ignored something really important.I have been reading as much as I can but don't understand it all, and I suppose some things ...	finished product... Thank you!Well I decided to go ahead with it but in the interest of not throwing good after bad I halved the recipe and only made a 7 inch loaf. I refrigerated the remainder of the starter in case I want to continue.The night before mixing the bread dough I got the bright idea to put the starter in ...
Question about a little too dense sourdough loaf Hey all,I seem to have perfected my recipe (after researching tons on the internet and trial and error for the last couple months) for sourdough bread. I can make fairly consistent loaves with good shape, texture and taste. My question is while my crumb is "good" and o...	Is 4 hours long enough for 3c Is 4 hours long enough for 3c flour and 1/2 cup starter? I usually mix up my starter with a good % of flour and leave overnight to double/triple...then I take about 4 hours from mixing to retarding in the fridge for baking next day.Had a dig around and found the recipe I've always used wit...
How to feed My starter is ca 10 days old. I keep it in my oven with the light on, so it's in an environment between 71-77 degrees. I fed it avery 12 hours at a ratio of 1:1:1. Initially it was struggling to develop oomph, and then I came across Mini Oven's suggestion in another thread to feed at a ration of 1:1.5:2 eve...	When I feed it, it's very stiff. After 12 hours, when I stir it once to give it air, it's bubbly, like thick batter, easy to stir and it's got super stretchy strands, kind of like mozzarella. Does that sound right?
PH testers are the regular bulb type PH testers ok for testing pasta madre ?I know they are meant for liquid but once contact is made is it accurate ?thx	I wouldn't trust it very much I wouldn't trust it very much, better to dissolve some of the dough in distilled water and measure that. If you are consistent in how much dough (measured as flour weight) you use in how much water, it should be very consistent and reproducible.
how to make a 100% hydration starter? Hi I think maybe this is a stupid question to ask but i do not know how to make a 100% hydration starter? can anyone give me advice?	It is an easy process If you already have a starter, begin feeding it at 100% hydration. I personally do not keep a large volume of starter. When I refresh, I take 20 grams of water and 20 grams of my flour mixture, and then add 10 to 20 grams of my starter. As you keep doing that, no matter what hydration your ori...
What's the least and most amount of time required for a sponge (or starter)? Hi -New to this of course. A youtube video by Dave of Dave's Killer Bread showed that he let his sponge or starter (can't remember which he called it and don't know if there's a difference) sit on his counter for about an hour before continui...	The time depends on the The time depends on the amount of yeast you use. Some recipies put all the yeast into a sponge to kickstart the yeast into activity (like Brioche, for example). This often only takes 30-45 minutes.Peter Reinhart is a big fan of cold retarding his preferments (ie Bigas, Poolishes) by putting them...
Hello from Houston Texas Sourdough levain Salt Water No problem with Texas, such a state to discover!Coming from France via the United Arab Emirates where I had no trouble to make my own levain and bake great bread, but here it's another story.My 4th levain is on trial, fingers crossed.My previous ones develop this nas...	How long are you letting your How long are you letting your culture grow? It takes well over two weeks to get something that's able to leaven bread.
First SD loaf - moderate fail So I finally baked with my first starter on the weekend. I was very excited!I was going to make this loaf: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23061/extremely-sourdough-soft-sandwich-bread-most-shreddble-soft-velvety-ever But I made the recommended levain the night before and it didn't even h...	8-year-old's sourdough! I think the trick to please someone with a mild palette with sourdough is to make sure you've refreshed the starter multiple times recently. I'm talking at least tripling the starter each time, refreshing as soon as it's vigorously bubbly. That'll give you plenty of yeast action without as much ...
detail question sfsourdough posted this in 2011 and I have questions about some details (my questions are below the text that I highlighted in bold):I found that with my starter, I had to retard the dough for something like 48-72 hours to get decent oven spring. Also, I use the Jim Leahey method: use a cast-iron dutch...	detail 5. you can bake directly from the fridge if the dough was fully proofed before going in. It's actually easier to score cold dough.6. I wouldn't say the dough is "scraped from the bowl". You are dealing with a carefully shaped and proofed dough here. It needs to be carefully "plopped" out of the bowl... verticall...
I know you've answered these questions a million times BUT.... Ok, I've studied this forum, books, other webpages, and experimented for about a month now. I FINALLY have two LIVING spelt starters, or chefs or mothers, or whatever they're called (it's like a soft dough form) that are at least three weeks old.Through all...	There's a LOT of different ways to use it There are as many ways to use starter/sourdough/natural levain as there are names for it and methods to make it, so hold on to your socks. You will get MANY suggestions.The trick is to find a method that works for you-the mixing/rising/baking schedule fits your lifestyle and g...
Is there hope? I've lovingly tended to and fed my starter twice a day for a week now, keeping it on the countertop. It always doubled within 4-6 hours after feeding, and bubbled nicely. Yesterday evening I used Breadtopia's sourdough no knead recipe. I've made no knead recipes with yeast with success a number of times....	Keep on trucking I think just let it sit until it looks like it's rising. Post your exact recipe, that'll help us help you. Sourdoughs can be finicky, especially if your starter is young.
Starter smells like mushrooms I have a 8 day old starter made with 50/50 dark rye and all purpose flour. Fed at 1:1:1 It smells like mushrooms which is find really interesting. My other 100% rye starter smells like nailpolish/green apples, which is think more typical. Anyone have this experience with rye and ap flo...	oh dear... What temperature are the starters? Need to get them warmer I suspect. Sounds like they are progressing very slowly. I suggest warmer and skipping a day or two of feeds.You can search the site: starter smells like acetone
I'm confused..... ... but ... what exactly is a "soaker"?	Soak some ingredients in Soak some ingredients in water for a while and you've got a soaker. Typically folks use a soaker for softening whole or cracked grains. Soaking whole grain flour overnight is also commonly done to softening the bran up and start the enzymatic process. Paul and Michael do a better job describ...
Some greenish looking starter Hello! I'm new to bread baking and I've started my first starter about two days ago. This morning I checked on my starter and it has a greenish little puddles on top of it. Is this ok? I've read that this is just alcohol and as long as it smells tangy and is not pink it's ok.Thanks!	At a closer look With a closer look I think I was the way the light was reflecting off of the "hooch" and my lack of experience giving my started a "greenish" color. It smells tangy and I did my first feeding about an hour ago. I think it's all good. Sorry for the dumb question and thanks for your response! Thanks agai...
keto yeast HelloI've stopped using my loyal sourdough starter because I'm now on a low carb / keto diet, because I'm diabetic.Yeast is benficial for diabetes because it has organic chromium, which is far better than chromium tablets.So I wonder if one can build wild yeast without flour?Can we multiply Saccharomyces cer...	This sounds tricky to figure This sounds tricky to figure out; do you have a credible source for the idea that "diabetics who currently make sourdough bread should quit eating sourdough bread, and they should eat flour-free commercial yeast instead"?(Not a source for "yeast is a better source of chromium than tablets a...
Buy or Create my own Starter? Any recommendations for a newbie? I can go either way but if buying an established starter is better I'm OK with that. Any advise would be greatly appreciated.	Starter If you can purchase an established starter from a baker - why not?Usually you can buy only dry sourdough extract in natural food stores (if any), and in that case I would definitely start my own starter. It's pretty easy to do, but takes some time to develop its taste.Here in TFL you can find several examples h...
A beginner's notes on sourdough starters Hello everyone. I have recently been enchanted by the idea of making my own bread. This came about after reading Michael Pollan's Cooked book. So I started a starter about 2 weeks ago and have been struggling with it. I am following these two methods: http://www.marthastewar...	Comments "Smell and taste- When the starter runs out of food it will become more sour and alcoholic."Ans. -- Alcohol is the natural result of the fermentation by the yeast and the acid is the natural result of fermentation by the lactobacteria (LB). All is well."The good lacto bacteria will ultimately produce enough ...
contaminated starter help! my starter may have been contaminated.Henry is about 3 months old, was started on dark rye and has been fed dark rye it's whole life, 50g rye flour, 65g filtered water. from day 2 it has been very active, from about day 4 it's been doubling after feeding in about 3-4 hours, i feed it once a d...	Lots of dilution real fast. This is hilarious and I know that feel, but I don't think you have any need to worry. If you refresh the starter 5 times, removing half and then doubling each time, then you've diluted anything in it by 32 times.Sandor Katz has a very live and let live with the starter. Your starter should b...
how can I tell the starter is at its peak? I've made my first starter as of two days ago. Right now it's sitting out at ca 68, and I feed it twice a day. It's nice and bubbly. After I fed it at 9am today, it doubled within 3-4 hours. I decided to watch what will develop, since I'm totally new to this. It's been sitting...	it's like the stock market you don't really know the peak until it has passed, then you can say with the clarity of hindsight "that was a peak". You need to learn the dynamics of your starter by experience. You will not achieve any precision in estimating the peak, but you'll know (for your particular feeding schedule ...
Crust too hard, inside too soft I attempted two kinds of sourdough bread, one mostly rye with a small amount of wholewheat and the other mostly wholewheat with some rye. The starter was very successful, made out of rye flour and the dough rose beautifully. Both breads are based on Russian recipes, the first one called ...	Crust & Crumb For a softer crust brush the dough with melted butter before baking and spray water on it during the first 5 minutes of the bake. When cooling the loaf after baking cover it with damp towels or just a sheet of plastic wrap.To get a firmer crumb, bake until the interior temperature is about 200 to 205°F (...
Creating a SEED CULTURE at 7,000' and 25% humidity When I lived in Seattle, making a Seed Culture was simple and predictable using Reinhart's pineapple juice method. I now live in Santa Fe (7,000' elevation, though I don't know if that makes any difference to the project at hand), and it's very dry here, especially in...	Keep at it, mine took almost Keep at it, mine took almost a week if memory serves me correctly and nearly 2 weeks to look 'right'. That was this past summer in Phoenix.
Starter shrunk When I created my first starter a few days ago, it was nice and bubbly. I put it in the fridge, where it promptly lost some of its volume (maybe15%). Is that normal? Will it come back up once at room temperature? Anything I should do?	Too Young! Your starter needs to age for about a month, before it is mature. Mix and discard about half of your starter, then blend in equal weights of chlorine free water and unbleached all purpose flour. Let this ferment for two days then discard about about two thirds of the starter, and feed this equal weights of...
about to try my first sourdough bread, but confused... I'm a total sourdough beginner. I just made my starter according to gaaarp's directions (http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10251/starting-starter-sourdough-101-tutorial) and it turned out beautifully. I stuck it in the fridge this morning. (It actually lost a bit o...	There's a lot of information There's a lot of information "out there" b/c there's no "right" way.I use 1:1:1 (s/w/f) ratio to feed my starter daily. It gives a firm starter. Others prefer to maintain a liquid starter and use different ratios. I use 60g each s/w/f.I never put my starter in the fridge. It's ok to put it ...
first attempt at sourdough which is also GF Hi all!I am new to the site and can't wait to explore it more, it looks like I could spend a lot of time here ;-)I have been baking GF bread for some time now. I usually use teff or sorghum.So this is my first attempt at sourdough and am reading through some post and wonder i...	divide and conquer......... Try using an equal part culture to feed and discard the rest (and feel like a serial murderer for the rest of the day!!!). So, ½ cup culture as it is now + ½ cup flour of whatever description + ½ cup water, and if it's not acid enough ( I do check with a piece of test strip - litmus paper - ...
70% rye sourdough from scraps So in the process of feeding my starters I was left with the best fermented starter. I had 100g of a bread flour starter and 100g of a pumpernickel/rye starter. It had the best smell reminiscent of a white wine. So I combined the two and fed it with 130g flour and 70g water. I then let...	70%??? I see more wheat than rye so how is it figured? 70% hydration? :)If the white flour is white rye, then you won't get a long working time on it.
Tips on building sourness back into my starter Hello, I've been using the same starter for a while now and it makes nice bread.However, when I first activated it (I bought it online in powder form) the starter made wonderfully sour loaves but now I don't get any tang at all.I feed the starter after every bake with the ...	Sourness Generally speaking the longer you let your starter build up the more sourness you can expect in your loaf. You can also build sourness by retarding in the fridge after bulk fermentation is complete. I also found that using a mix of Wholemeal / white flour to feed the levain tends to add a touch of sourness. ...
Potato water The first place I ever read about starter was not in a cookbook or other non-fiction text, but in a historical novel:…Amanda Whipple was up at five, teaching Mun Ki how to cook American style, and she was impressed both with his clever mind and his fearful stubbornness. For example, on each Friday during t...	Nothing like a good potato starter. No need for flour a the grated potato is plenty of food - a great starter. I feed my starter potato flakes and water along with Oat flour on an irregular basis to keep it in tip top shape and on its toes . Both potato and oats do wonders for starters and SD bread even in small qua...
Maintaining starter: do quantities/feeding regime really matter? Dear all, I am new to baking sourdough bread and would love some advice from you. My question: does it really matter how you feed or maintain your starter? Will I run into problems if I do it all freehand and by not following a strict regime?The reason wh...	I almost never measure To feed, I put in some water and mix in enough flour to get the desired consistency, which, for me, is a thick batter. Once in a while, I measure just to determine the hydration percentage for this consistency. Generally, it's 100 percent. I feed twice a week and keep the starter out for a few ho...
Sour Rye dough problems I have been making Rye Breads for about 6 months now and have occasionally run into a problem with the dough when I use a sour starter and commercial yeast.What I think happens is when I let the first ferment go too long it creates a somewhat slimy dough that kills the commercial yeast. It is re...	pretty cold dough brrrrrr Cold really slows things down.and... the dough seems to be reacting like some rye starter do when wheat is added or when the starter is converted from rye to wheat. The first rise is great, but the consecutive feeds or flour additions of wheat flour causes baulking from the microbes. Try...
Do indigenous microorganisms prevail? I keep reading on the Internet that a starter will change character according to locale. For example, the culture that you created in San Francisco may start out full of Lactobacillus sanfranciscensis, but if you move it to the east coast, the starter will gradually become overrun ...	Not exactly the best analogy ... But why should this happen? Look at me—I'm not indigenous to New Jersey, and as an Asian I am definitely in the minority, yet I'm still here. Thriving, in fact, probably because I'm just as healthy as anyone and we're not competing over a scarce food supply.You're also not a eukaryotic ...
My Sourdough crumb I couldn't figure out how to add a picture to my last post "My first Sourdough" so decided to add a deprecate one showing the crumb. Yeasty	Good crumb structure, Kris! Good crumb structure, Kris!-Khalid
Bauernbrot? I have a Bauernbrot recipe I make for a friend regularly that uses compressed yeast and a LOT of kneading. I was hoping one of you folks could suggest a SD version, and - because of a recent hand surgery - a stretch and fold recipe instead of kneading.(One-handed bread shaping is quite interesting...)	easy to fold with one hand just skip the kneading. Let the ingredients rest after combining add lots of folds instead resting between rounds. Amazing how well it works and can be done in the bowl after flipping the dough. Also a good time to train a kitchen elf and get the best milage out of baking parchment. :)Lot...
My Rye Starter Problem: Jewish Deli Rye I have determined to bake the Deli Rye from George Greenstein's book, Secrets of a Jewish Baker. I grew up during the 1950's, in a very Jewish neighborhood of Cleveland. There were, at various times, as many as five Jewish bakeries on a three block section of Coventry Road, eac...	I've found that my starter I've found that my starter doesn't always "rise" as I expect it to, and I've learned to look for other signs of life, rather than just at the rise. For me, the health of the culture can be ascertained through its smell, and the formation of lots of gas bubbles throughout. I keep my starter in...
Pineapple vs water I started my first starter a week ago. I decided to go with the pineapple juice method because for some reason I thought it would work better. I followed this method http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2. But I must admit that I might have misread the instructions bec...	And now I notice that the And now I notice that the pineapple starter rises faster, but goes down sooner than the water one. I'm guessing that may be because it's too liquid? I'll add less water tonight (stopped adding juice on day 4) and see what that gives.
My first Sourdough My first attempt at Sourdough. I used my barm 'Susie' and I'm very pleased with the results for a first attempt. it was a basic 3 build loaf but I wanted to start simple and not try to run before I can walk. I like how the slash has opened on the cob. My technique is definitely getting better. Can't ...	Nicely done! Congratulations! Nicely done! Congratulations!
Sourdough ... intensity of sourness I have just cooked my second sourdough loaf. The first was only minimally sour and also heavy. This second loaf did all of the right things.The culture doubled in size before using. The resultant dough also doubled in size and it held its shape when I transferred it to the oven.It bl...	sour intensity Chris, I too would like to figure it out so that I could cut back.I had some of my first loaf starter refrigerated. I took it out and refreshed it. It bubbled but did not increase. I then poured half into another jar and decided to keep them both going. Repeated the stirring, feeding and discarding for s...
Help calculating formula - Open Crumb (Trevor J. Wilson) Hello everyone!Just wanted to make sure I calculated this right, if someone has the time to help, i would much appreciate it:Original: Formula (600g loaf): 89% CM Artisan Baker's Craft Plus (11.5% protein), 11% whole wheat (entirely from the starter), 75% water, ...	Looks good That looks right (rounded, of course!).d.
Sourdough starter produced bread with no taste, why? Hi guys, My babied sourdough starter which I made from scratch from Bertinet's recipe and then refreshed over the next 3 weeks (longest I went without refreshing was 1 week on vacation, otherwise every 3 days.) When refreshing I took say 200 grams starter after bring...	The longer it ferments the more "TANG" If your starter is in the fridge, you need to start a few days before to "freshen" it up. If you keep your starter on the counter you can refresh it once a day and you can change the flavor of your bread by changing when you use your starter. If you take a tablespoon of starter ...
Can I pinch off the poolish to make a starter? I made a poolish using a quarter tsp of instant yeast. Can I take a tbspn or so and begin a sourdough starter?	We're talking semantics here. We're talking semantics here.Nowadays the term Sourdough is usually related to a wild yeast started sour dough. The term sourdough literally means a soured dough, e.g. a piece of your old dough that has soured (because it wasn't used yesterday to make a loaf, etc.) So yes, technically, you...
20% spelt flour loaf I baked this loaf yesterday morning with some spelt flour I received form Tasmania, Australia.I toasted up a slice this morning and it really has a nice flavor. 10396212896_0f8ede67de_z.jpg	Just beautiful! Great baking all the way around.
It's not a failure if I learn from my mistakes, right? Third attempt at sourdough starter produced a happy camper that will bubble and double and so I thought it was all ready to go. I've been reading posts here and elsewhere and all my books (Reinhart, RLB) and a few from the library (Reinhart, Leader) the starter is...	There are so many variations There are so many variations of starters and methods it is hard to help you without more specifics. If you give us more details on your starter such as amount of water to flour and also your formula and procedure you are following to bake your bread I can help you avoid some of the pitfall...
Loaf structure.... HiI've not been baking Sourdoughs too long, started last year and it's going alright. The bread often tastes fine but I have a slight problem with my looks... my hydration is usually around 67%, 300 g water and 450 g strong white flour. I usually build with 100g starter, 100g water and 100g flour, mi...	How are you developing . . . . . . your dough? Kneading, stretch and fold and the French slap and fold are all valid techniques for developing gluten structure. Sounds like your dough is under developed. Brian
Strong but bland starter I've started to store my starter in the fridge, as opposed to feeding it every day. It's a fairly new starter - maybe a couple of months old. After a week or so in the fridge, I "woke" it and fed it. No problems - it grew happily. But, the loaves I've made from it are a bit disappointing - the...	Age doesn't matter so they say. They being Ed Wood, of Sourdoughs International. The character of any culture can be manipulated by changing the hydration or the temperature of the ferment, or what you feed it. The bacteria don't change. Only the environment changes.If you keep it in the fridge most of the time, then t...
Sourdough Angel Food? Has anyone seen a recipe for this? I've seen it referenced in a couple of places - someone mentioned it as something they purchased at a supermarket (although in this case I suspect a sourdough flavoring) and someone else saw it in a cookbook in 1972.If you have such a recipe, please let me know!	doesn't make sense "Angelfood" cake is raised with beaten egg whites. No leavening like yeast or anything else is involved.Might you be referring to some of the delicious European desert breads like panettone? Savarin?
How To: Converting SD to YW NOTE: This is a work in progress. Comment below and I will edit and update as needed. My goal is to have reliable, easy to follow steps in one place.This has been covered many times and in many forms but I wanted to get it down really simple so it's easy to find / understand. This post also ...	Nice fresh clean slate! DId Nice fresh clean slate! DId you get yours working already? If so, that was fast. I am anxious to hear how it turns out when you bake with it and what kind of flavor it imparts in your bread. (I figure it will take at least a week before it is ready to be used with a recipe.)Take Care,Ja...
3rd try at SD The flavor is nice, but could be more sour. The crust did not come out real crisp, I had 3+ pounds of dough cooking, maybe that is too much. Feel free to critique STP80378_zpsaed277bf.jpg	Looks awful good! A little more boldly baked and the blisters would have stood out more but really, what's not to like? Well done!
Problems with spelt and stiff levain For several years now I have been baking successfully with a stiff whole wheat levain that I feed twice daily. Recently though, my doughs have lost strength toward the end of fermentation and become unmanageable. I have tried different preferment times, temps and percentages but m...	Bubbles are good Bubbles mean fermentation, which is good. Have you upped the hydration percentage in your doughs? Was the seasonal room temperature higher so that the first rise took less time than usual? That happened to me in the summer and I had to adjust the starter amounts considerably.When I had a lackluster sta...
Overnight Country Blonde (FWSY) a delicious disaster I made the Overnight Country Blonde recipe from Ken Forkish's Flour Water Salt Yeast. The timelines in Forkish's recipes are based on a cool ambient temperature, and I've been adjusting as needed, but this particular recipe ended up so over-fermented that I ended up ...	I’m glad you baked in spite of the dough being soup! Having a cool kitchen or a cool spot for the recipes in the book is crucial. I baked my way through the book with no problems (I live in Canada where there is no lack of cold during the winter months) so I was quite surprised when I joined this community and read all...
Experiment: Starter + salt / Starter + lemongrass I live in Taiwan where it's hot and humid. I love the weather (probably one of the very few!) and so does my sourdough starter. A little too much, in fact. It doubles in 2 hours! It makes great bread but honestly it's too much to handle. I had it in the fridge before bu...	Have you thought about slowing down the starter using ice cubes and ice water when feeding? How about a thermos type container for a starter jar when using ice water? Next thought...a unglazed clay pot pre-soaked in water (think wine cooler) and starter in a second container inside keeping cool. Or a wet sock on the...
Sourdough Problems Greetings all,I'm working with a fairly new starter, which I made originally according to the instructions in Reinhart's Artisan Bread Every Day, and have since modified to 100% hydration. I keep it in the refrigerator, with the plan being to refresh it weekly and bake with it once or twice each wee...	"crossed my fingers and put it back in the fridge" Well it sounds like the yeast needs pepping up and it won't happen in the fridge... so... I suggest that instead of tucking the starter into the fridge, you keep watching it until it has peaked, reduce and feed it again. Leave it out at room temp and let it peak befo...
Big holes + very dense crumb Please, do you have an idea what the cause of such bread structure is? These are 6 photos of 6 sourdough loafs made from one starter over about 3 weeks. I'd like to help a friend of mine.The bread at the bottom is from a 2-week old starter. The others (upwards) followed. I checked the dough...	is it just me, or are they is it just me, or are they all different recipes? #1 looks normal for a high hydration bread. Many people think this is a perfectly acceptable rustic loaf. #2 looks underfermented, and possibly underkneaded (big holes in some places, even otherwise). #3 & 4 look OK, probably lower hydration a...
Starter: Raisin water does not ferment - it moulds - help During the winter I made a fantastic starter with fermented raisin water. Water & Raisins 10 days later it was foaming and boozy. The result giving us a starter with really great bakes. My daughter (9) is making a starter as a project. It has changed the wat...	Hi T&CI think Temp takes a Hi T&CI think Temp takes a big part as well. Last week I have been following the instruction from this website while my room temp was around 30C instead of the recommended 28C. It starting to mold on the third day. Another reasons I can think of is maybe we didnt sterilized our jar clean enou...
Baking Soda in SD bread? Hi all,Today I tried to do a sourdough English muffins for the first time. It turned out on the blah side, not bad just not good. While they cooked on the griddle they kinda exploded in size, looked more like the growing snake fireworks we had as kids. This got me thinking if a little bit of...	Clayton puts 1/8th tsp in some of his SD breads to cut the sour not make the bread rise ....although it will act like a instant yeast booster so many folks put into their SD breads. But I mainly use YW booster for heavier SD whole grain breads if i don't want them sour and want them more open.
Levain maintaining and using in Ken Forkish's "Flour Water Salt Yeast". Right now I'm holding a 100% hydration and white levain, I thought maybe to change to his method, can anyone hand some impressions?Also I'm bit confused with his methods. I'm talking about the section about sorting and restoring the levain.First of...	Forkish feeding schedule @ Tal Hi, Tal.I have been baking breads and pizza from Forkish's book for the past couple months. I find his timings for fermentation of both levains and final doughs way too long. The only solution is to either change the formula, for instance by using proportionately less levain, lower the do...
Levain storage Hello all, What is the best way to store my active levain if I'm only baking say once a week and how should I do it? It is currently sat in a six qt tub waiting to be used, but I'm not sure what to do with rest after Ive used a small portion for my bread. sorry if the question is too vague. Rupert	This is what I do http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/32136/life-fred-maintaining-starter-pictures
Divide to Conquer ! Hey all,So, as usual, I find myself searching through the forums for more wisdom on how to control the intensity of the sour punch delivered by my numerous iterations of a Poilane-clone, a lofty ideal that I've been chasing since my first encounter in le Marais this past April while in Paris for the...	Here is a chart that shows the reproducive rates of labs and yeast. At all temperatures labs out reproduce yeast but the best temperature for yeast is 79-82 F and labs best temperature is 90 F. For sour; retarding starters, levains and dough at 36 F slows down lab and yeast reproduction greatly but the lab to yeast...
Tough Crust I have read some post on this problem but haven't seen a solution. I have been making a Tartine style loaf for a while It's been coming out great, large open crumb, dark flavorful crust . When the bread cools maybe even the next day the crust becomes real tough and leathery its real hard to cut. The crumb i...	you are 100% right! "wrapping the bread in plastic wrap I know this is a no no but I think I could enjoy the bread as it is for the first day, then when it gets wrapped the crumb should get soft and at least be manageable. If it needs to be crisped up I can place it in oven."Bagging after cooling and sealing overnight ...
Extra ingredients in starters I've been thinking a lot about certain starters (like a supposedly Amish recipe that I have that includes dairy, sugar, nutmeg, cinnamon, and eggs) that have extra ingredients in them. Certain spices might permeate the liquid more, like how the flavor of soup might be enhanced from slow co...	personally, I would keep a personally, I would keep a starter a starter, just flour and water. I wouldn't want to interfere with the natural balance a starter has developed over time. build up your starter so you have enough to play with and experiment a bit. you could have some interesting experiments there! don't ...
please help! - how to increase acidity of Lievito/ Pasta Madre? Hi everyone!I've been maintaining a Lievito Madre for a couple of months now, but it seems to be a little finicky right now and may not be acidic enough. I'd previously been storing the LM in a cooler (16-18c) and feeding it every 1-2 days. As we draw near...	18C Fridge In order to have acetic and Healty LM you need to have the right balance of yeast and bacteria. Before I go into details, there are 2 main fermenation (Homo and Hetero lactic both are cause by LAB)When you do temp 26-30C proofing you promote more Lactic (Standard Levain Style )these also like more water an...
Starter is hard as a rock.... I have had my starter in the fridge since March or April, and just took it out. I know, I haven't been taking care of it. Well, it's hard as a rock. Any ideas on what I should do to revive it?	That sounds like it has dried That sounds like it has dried out. It should be sealed so that wouldn't happen. But... If it has dried, you might be OK. Take some, add some water and flour and see what happens.
More Sourdough Problems I began a new sourdough. I started it the same way I began my rye sour, using organic rye flour from the local natural food co-op. My intention was to convert it to wheat in order to bake a French or San Francisco style loaf.Just like the last time, the starter was extremely active early on, bub...	Patience Have patience, the organisms in your new starter have probably just died off because of the acid environment.Of course you could have used your already active rye starter and just started feeding it all purpose flour or whole wheat flour.Ford
stretch and fold and cold bulk rise How do I incorporate stretch and fold into a cold bulk rise.I have a formula for 75% hydration dough that has a bulk rise of about 3-4 hours at room temp which I stretch and fold every half hour in the bowl. How would I do stretch and folds if I want to do a overnight cold bulk rise?	Depends on the yeast It would depend on the amount of yeast.Stretch and Fold several times but don't worry about the number- you will need several as the dough cools.If using a usual amount of yeast, leave the dough at room temp till the first S&F, and then refrigerate. The dough will still be warm enough to require se...
Potato Starter The bakery I work at uses a potato flake starter....and honestly...its the sweetest, yummiest bread you can snack on. Personally, I prefer very crusty loaves...but this stuff is a real treat!I'm wondering if anyone here uses one? How do you incorporate it into your recipes since it is 100% liquid?Are the...	here you go... http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20693/culturing-growing-and-baking-range-wild-yeasts ronray has compiled a list of every topic that has to do with wild yeast water...potato is included. Many have found that it is a great way to then get other fruits etc to grow yeasts. Have a good time reading..there is...

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