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Hallelujah!!! Updated. I did it.... I finally made some sourdough rounds that look as good as my sister's loaves look. Thanks to time on the phone consulting with the gurus.... I can finally show my face in the sourdough world! Not perfect but neither of them look like cow pies! I am so thrilled. Whoda thought one cou...	Great Looking Boules Good for you, loaf pans are now and forever an optional accessory. Those are lovely looking breads, round as can be and with very nice slashing too. Cold DO in hot oven?
bread shaping difficulties and all that jazz Hello,I was wondering if any of you learned and more experienced bakers coudl help me out with a problem. I have been having much greater success with my breads lately, but one NEW problem has developed. While my bread has the crust and crumb and taste that I am looking for ...	i think I have an easy solution for you I used to have a similar problem with "fault-lines", where edges of the dough didn't join properly. The cause was flour drying out the edges and preventing it from sticking. The solution: a mist sprayer (the same one I use to spray the walls of the oven to get steam). Before you ...
Building Starter for Recipe - HELP! Hi, all. I’m about to make the Norwich Sourdough bread from Wild Yeast blog, as follows: 900 g AP flour120 g whole rye flour 600 g water at about 74F 360 g mature 100% hydration sourdough starter 23 g salt I have made this successfully before. My second-to-last batch yielded good fl...	It's like family My wife is mature, she's steady and ready.My teenage son is ripe, you know what that means: not mature but sort of ready.And my little one is active: she's ready but doesn't have a great amount of energy.Sourdough cultures are similar.
Is it practical to maintain the Full Sour (of 3 Stage Detmolder Process) for future use ? I use a 100% rye starter and produce tasty, but not notably sour, rye + wholemeal loaves and I am considering trying the Detmolder 3 Stage Process to increase my output sourness and flavour. The procedure is lengthy and necessitat...	Detmolder Rye Hi,According to the originator of the process (Arbeitsgemeinschaft Fuer Getreideforschung Detmold eV) the 3-stage process gives you an optimum sour for about 30 minutes. This method is thought to be for an automated process and is (at least in Germany) mostly used by bakers who have automated multi-fermen...
Can changing flours effect starter? My starter is fed 50% All Purpose and 50% Whole Wheat. It is a 100% hydration starter. I follow the one in Tartine's Book.I recently changed my whole wheat flour that I feed my starter and the bread I was making didn't feel the same. During the "turns" in the container it didn't i...	Yes, it can. I once bought a different flour by accident (I buy flour from a mill, and I got a bag of non-organic instead of the organic I normally buy), fed my starter with it once, and the starter died the following day. Went from a nice, active starter to a lifeless smelly puddle within 24 hours. Took me days to fig...
'Home Baked' by Hanne Risgaard I was wondering if anyone that has purchased Ms Risgaard's book has had a chance to check out her 'Real Rye Bread' recipe. I don't understand why she mixed all of the dough ingredients and then takes out 400 grams of the dough and saves it for the next bake. How long can this be kept? I p...	Another sourdough method There are many sourdough methods, this one is more often called "old dough" which may start out as a pre-ferment with instant yeast and eventually take on sourdough beasties over time. A lot depends on the amount of fermentation you give the dough before you remove a section for the next loaf ...
Dense, gummy sourdough Hey all, I’ve been baking sourdough for a few weeks now and only once have been successful in getting a light, fluffy crumb. I baked a loaf last night and cut into it today with high hopes of finally having a good fluffy bread because from the exterior, it was a pretty perfect loaf. I got great o...	Hi vanilla! It looks under Hi vanilla!It looks under-fermented to me. I've had this happen before, I'm sure most people here have at some stage.The contrast of dense crumb with very large holes suggests that the large holes aren't from fermentation, but from trapped air during folding and shaping etc.I would make sure ...
Hello! New here. I've been lurking on this site for about a week now. I read a very long and intesting post about making a sourdough starter with pineapple juice so I thought I'd try it.It seemed to work well and I've got 2 starters going, one with rye and one with wheat. I'll probably toss one at some point because...	Oh, and I'm not much of a Oh, and I'm not much of a baker, so any comments on what to do better, or easy recipes to try would be welcome!
Sourdough Problems- New oven Hi everyone, I have been recently baking sourdough and have had a lot of success. My favourite recipe so far has been Susan's 'Norwich Sourdough' - link http://www.wildyeastblog.com/2007/07/08/my-new-favorite-sourdough/ . I had been turning out loaves like this but recently they have not be...	a lot of changes in a short time can pull the rug out from under you in more ways than one. It could be something subtle like a warmer house (less drafts or warmer tap water temp) or the new crop of flour that is speeding your fermentation along."...very little oven spring and spread out lots..." Try something simple ...
Dried Ischia Ruined? So I had a friend mail me some of their Ischia starter dried about 7 months ago, and after reactivating it with only half the dried amount sent, I shoved the other part in the drawer in my bedroom and left it be. It was dark in there and maintained at room temp, which is around 70 degrees Fahrenhei...	Try to refresh it! The only way to really know is to try to refresh it and see.
Bread waits for no one - is this underproofed? I wasn't happy with this loaf, but I only have myself to blame. I was in a hurry to get out the door so cut the proofing time on this loaf hoping that it would spring in the oven. It ended up smaller and denser than it should have.I noticed the darker lines just under the ...	Is it doughy (underbaked) Is it doughy (underbaked) there?
Why? Why bake sourdough? I'm a sourdough lover, sometime bread blogger and freelance writer, and I have somehow convinced an editor that I'll write an article about sourdough. I'd like to talk about reasons for choosing sourdough over tossing in a spoonful of commercial yeast. I mean, it's not a crime or even a chea...	My reasons Well, my set of reasons for using sourdough is different:Curiosity, interest. and a fascination with sourdough science. I like experimenting... (pretty much why I started making my own sourdough in the first place)I like making various fermented things myself (yogurt, pickles) and sourdough seemed like a nat...
Hamelman light rye without yeast? I am planning on baking a loaf of Hamelman's Light Rye tonight, but I'm considering making it without commercial yeast. I was wondering if anyone has experience doing this with this specific recipe.For doughs developed using the Detmolder method, Hamelman says that commercial yeast is ...	Might find something useful here... did a site searchhttp://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/22480/i-wonder-why-do-we-have-add-yeast-sourdough-rye-bread
Stupid Question??? This might qualify as a stupid question.... I am making (I hope) yeast water, started with raisins and water... it is fermenting nicely on my counter... here is the question.... When do I throw out the raisins?	Whenever you want to, unless Whenever you want to, unless you're planning on adding some yeast and sugar to make wine of homemade brandy or some other spirits.
Sourdough proofing troubles To put it bluntly: I am fairly certain I am underproofing, but I have no idea what time I need to allow for my bread to fully develop at around 68-70 degrees F. Last night I stuck it in the fridge from 10:30PM to 4 AM and let it continue to proof on the counter at around 68F until 10AM---And...	Just off hand, 68° to 70°F I would say a minimum of 12 hrs would be needed. Tucking away in the refrigerator without any warm counter time is delaying the rise. You're rushing it. It sounds like the loaf is being baked when it should be folded instead. Don't be afraid to slice into the dough and check on progress...
Beginner taking on wild yeast starter: am I on the right track? Hello sourdough enthusisasts! I need your help!For the first time, I'm attempting to cultivate wild yeast as a sourdough starter. However, it's been 8 days since its inception, and my starter is beginning to behave abnormally, at least from my perspective....	Hello there! I would say, try Hello there! I would say, try and slow down the rate your starter ferments--I have heard it been said that a stiff starter @ a 50% hydration is slower to ferment than a more liquid starter. You gave the ratios, but I wasn't completely sure what each of the numbers stood for, so I am just a...
Starter is ailing- what medicine do you recommend? Recently my firm starter developed a spoiled smell- it has all the smells and appearances of a healthy starter (rises predictably, no visible discoloration, etc.), but added to that is a definite spoiled smell that I would never put in bread. I would describe it as si...	Have you considered a small Have you considered a small amount of the starter with a very large feed? 5g:100g:100g, for example.
Smaller Levain = More Sour Bread - WHY? I would like to understand why a smaller (low % PFF) levian makes a more sour tasting bread. Experience convinces me it is so, but my inquisitive nature wants to understand why. In other words, why is 2% PFF (levain) produce a more sour bread than 20% PFF?DannyBread baking can be...	Hypothesis.Low inoculation Hypothesis.Low inoculation makes dough very non-acidic, LABs multiply for a long time until effects of acids they produce start slowing them down, and in the end produce more acid (since they keep producing it even when they are not multiplying in a more acidic environment). With high inocula...
Does choice of sourdough starter feed really affect the bread's flavor? I recently made a sourdough starter using the KAF method with organic whole rye and AP flour. It has been textbook perfect but expensive to maintain as I live in India where imported Western flour is not cheap. I have switched over to feeding the ...	Hi Melissa, Do you like your Hi Melissa,Do you like your bread? Does your friends and family enjoys your bread? When we have lemons, we make lemonade, lemon pie, use it on our fish or whatever. As long as you try your best to make the best possible bread you can with the materials that you have available to you, what m...
Feeding Schedule for Starter? I've not been keeping a regular feeding schedule. Every few days when I remember I throw an even amount of 50/50 (whole wheat/unbleached bread) flour and water into the starter. When the jar starts to get full I discard half. I use a tablespoon mixed with 200 grams water and 200 grams 50/5...	This is one of those "D.. if you do, d... if you don't" Q's Clearly you have a pattern to starter feeding. The standard rule for feeding standing out starters is generally to feed more than the amount of starter but your starter is sitting all the time in the refrigerator. Correct? Since it's refrigerated, do I nee...
Sourdough Rye Bread with a whole wheat starter I am a happy baker today - my first all sourdough loaf of bread worked out pretty well. It's a 50-50 rye/AP flour loaf with orange zest, fennel, caraway and anise seeds. The recipe is from http://www.breadtopia.com . It spread out somewhat in the oven even though it was...	All the World I've heard it said, "All the World loves a happy baker." First sourdough loaf? Great job! Now that you've started sourdough what to do with all those bigas, poolishes and sponges. :-)Jim
What is it with San Francisco sourdough? Read several articles but none really tell me what makes San Francisco sourdough so special. Some say it is REAL sour dough, others say it is just a hint of sour. Several say it is the delightfully crunchy crust that make it special, others it is all about the crumb. If San Fra...	It's different for everyone SF sourdough isn't really a specific thing. It's whatever you remember that you liked.Lots of people like Boudin's product, which is pretty much garbage as far as I am concerned. They have a "hundred and blah blah blah" year old starter (hint: If the bakery makes a big deal about how old the...
What does it mean when your bread looks this bad... http://www.flickr.com/photos/87861647@N04/8040705056/in/photostream/lightbox/Please help me troubleshoot how this happened!Here's a previous post I wrote about the making of this bread:http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/30465/first-time-making-tartines-basic-country-bre...	Take and post some photos of Take and post some photos of your starter. Store it in a clear glass or plastic container, and take photos at regular intervals; this will take some patience of course, but so does anything with wild leaven/sourdough :). This will help you get more comfortable with your starter's behavior, ...
My sourdough suddenly changed Hi everyone,I started a sourdough like over a month ago (started with flour, orange juice, raisins and water, got activity in 4 days, then since then refeshing with equal weight of beead flour and water). It was pretty alive, and did a couple of good breads with it. When i used to refresh ...	Culprit is often chlorine Are you using tap water from a municipal source? Often it is the chlorine that slowly kills your starter. Use filtered or bottled water that has eliminated the chlorine. Bakeries all condition their water to remove chlorine.
WW and Rye I recently posted what i would consider a success (albeit short of goals) in my sourdough baking of white sourdough bread. That said, i am unsure of what my expectations should be for whole wheat and rye loaves. So, i have comparison pictures of 2 loaves i baked inside the same 12 hour period (in an attempt ...	Are my expectations unrealistic? yesI'm having problems posting my reply and it freezes the spelling checker.
First time making Tartine's Basic Country Bread - please help! So I'm sure nobody here is remotely sick of reading posts about beginners who struggle making Chad Robertson's Basic Country Bread. Nobody at all. No problems. Please continue.Good.Today I baked my first basic loaf using the recipe (err, formula) described ...	Start with the starter, which one? Obviously your starter is the place to start. Smelling like apple cider (sounds good and hungry too) take one of them remove a tablespoon of starter off the bottom of the jar, use a straw if you have to. Add two tablespoons of water and enough flour to make a toothpaste like goop. ...
2nd Tartine Country Bread Attempt This last week, I had been preparing for my 2nd Tartine Country Bread attempt. Techincally, it was the first attempt at the exact recipe. My first attempt used my typical rye starter. This time I fed my starter the 50/50 ww/white combo as the recipe calls for. Last night when I was...	Looks like you achieved some Looks like you achieved some good results. Nice crust and open crumb. How did it taste?
possible to substitute tartine starter for fresh cake yeast? any conversion ideas? I've got a foccacia recipe that calls for fresh cake or compressed yeast which I cannot find. I have never worked with active dry yeast but have a very healthy Tartine starter. Is it possible to subsitute my starter for the fresh cake ye...	Starting out For a "simplistic" starting point, you might try the tip suggested at sourdoughhome:http://www.sourdoughhome.com/convert.html"Mike's Simplistic Conversion Technique A cup of active sourdough starter has about the same rise potential as a package of yeast. So, substitute a cup of starter for each package ...
Help with handling strong high protein baker flour Hello Everyone,I'd like to draw on your experience with working with strong high protein baker flour for sourdough loaves.I have been trying this "stone milled organic prairie hard red" 14.5% protein flour from brodflour - (https://brodflour.myshopify.com/collections/...	stone milled organic prairie hard red Hi Jean, what happened is that previously you baked with all-purpose flour, which in Canada means that you can bake bread or cookies with it equally well.Brodflour doesn't sell all-purpose or bread flour, there is no such indication on their bag. They only indicate that it is wheat...
What went wrong with my sourdough loaf? Title suggests a failure but the loaf is very nice to eat! Its a 75% hydration. Only been making bread for a under a year so bit of a noob So its good! however its got a dense section next to the base. I just started baking on a breadstone. Don't know my gas ovens max temperatur...	Looks like the stone is not hot enough Do you have a possibility to check the temperature of your stone before you put the bread in?Infrared thermometer or so?The crumb looks great - you'll make amazing bread when you get the heat thing right.I haven't got a gas oven, but if you search on this site you'll find loads of...
When to refrigerate starter? My stater is now mature and very active. In a few days I wont be able to bake for a week so I would like to store my stater in the fridge. When should I place it in the fridge? After I have refreshed it and it has double again? Thank you.Lane	Feed it then refrigerate Refresh it at 1:20:20 then wait one hour before refrigerating. If your refrigerator is set to 35°F, you can go a week or 10 days without feeding again and it will recover in one feeding. Beyond that it is likely to take a few refresh cycles to recover full activity.
So what is happening when kefir deteriorates a dough? I am putting this in Sourdough because I think it is a lactobacillus issue and I think this audience may have a good understanding of what is happening.Whenever I use kefir in making bread (any bread-WW,AP,Bread Flour), I find I am rescuing the loaf as the gluten st...	acidity favors the action of proteolytic enzymes, and if I'm not mistaken those beasts release protease, too. Since kefir is very sour...big problems ahead :)To counteract it you can disolve a tiny amount of bicarbonate in your liquid. I use 1 gr for 1 kg dough and it works perfectly with other souring agents.
critique please Hello all,I have been around here for about a year or so.i really enjoy baking bread it is a form of relaxation for me (my work is relatively high-stress). So i am getting to a point where i feel i want to take another step. I have tried many different breads and most of them are good to eat but I want ...	I am not sure what problems I am not sure what problems and uneveness you are refering to, but I am sure that what you have there is one wonderful looking loaf of bread. Very very nice.How did it taste?Jeff
Help! Tartine Yeast Alternative! Quick! Hey all. Please help! For the last week, I have been feeding my sourdough starter with 50/50 ww and br flour as the Tartine recipe calls for. It has been doubling predictably every feeding except for this afternoon's! I have NO idea why today, the day before I plan to make ...	Well you have 1000g flour instant yeast is average at 1.5% the flour weight. or 15g for a kilo but you already have some action with the sourdough so I would go less, maybe half or 7.5g but if you wanted it risen in instant yeast terms (very fast) go for the full 15g ➤ don't turn your back on the dough and make a...
Some input on my first sourdough croissant attempt,please.... Hello again,I haven't been on here in ages but it is so great to be back and have some time to peruse again and benefit from all the wisdom gathered here. A few months back I used TXFarmer's excellent write up to try my frist batch of croissants. They tasted...	Super! They look super duper! Well done. I can't help you with your question since I have never attempted them. Someone will probably answer your question.
Meat Fermenting Culture I use the following culture in making some of my sausage and was wondering how it would react with some starter? The culture I'm referring to is Bactoferm LHP Dry (Pediococcus acidilactici & Pediococcus pentosaceus). The information given about how it works with meat is as follows:For extra fast...	Just go for it My brother in law makes the most mouth puckering bread just from regular flour and water starter and LOOOooooonnng ferments. It tasted like pickled bread! If that's how you like it, introduce the 2 cultures and see what happens.On a practical note-I wonder how the yeast will react to a sudden drop in pH?...
lack of bloom This loaf's crust was the best I've made but after reading this post I was worried about bloom.Notice that the colour of the loaf where I scored it is the same as the rest of the crust. So I guess it hasn't bloomed open as its been in the oven. I had steam in the oven for the first 15 minutes of baking. A...	Your loaf looks great- Your loaf looks great- nothing to be worried about there! I have seen many a professionally-baked loaf that looks just like that. The cuts on a miche often resemble yours.If you have a specific goal in mind, like more "bloom" and ears, small tweaks can help you attain them. But it's also perf...
Can't find sourdough pancake recipe? I am looking to try a sourdough pancake recipe, preferably AnnieT's I read on one of the posts. But can't find the recipe??I maintain a Tartine starter. Discard and feed it every morning. I want to use the discarded portion instead of wasting it. I know it is not much to throw a...	Was it this Was it this thread?http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10003/dave-question-about-sourdough-pancakesAny sourdough starter will work for sourdough pancakes. You just need to adjust for different hydration levels. That is pretty easy to do for a batter.
fall is coming when is the best time to start a sourdough starter hi all fall is a good time for sourdough starters what month is good to start sourdough starter making	depends on where you live and your ambient temps. fall means different things to different folks if you mean the season where it gets cold at night and warm during the day and the leaves start to change colors and fall to the ground and the season will get gradually colder then we are on the same page the best season i...
First time doing sourdough. Frustrated with problems hi, I need help I am starting my first sourdough using ken forkish. I am in day 4. The sourdough has not risen for the last two days. I feed today. 200 gr levain, 500 gr whole wheat flour and 500 gr tap water at 32. This was done at 7:30 am. The starter smells strong...	First Time Sourdough First Time Sourdough + Ken Forkish + 100's of Grams = Not a very good formula. Find a small jar. Transfer 40g starter and feed 40g water + 40g flour. Give it a very good stir and don't feed for another 24 hours. After which, every 24 hours feed as follows...60g starter30g water30g flour Carry on wi...
What did I do wrong? M starter is active. I fed it the night before and use it the day after following this recipe but accommodate a night in the fridge and I did not split into 2 loaves: https://www.farmhouseonboone.com/how-to-make-whole-wheat-sourdough-bread1) My flour was whole wheat from a local Mill and a cup of t...	How do you know... Your starter is ready to bake with? I'm assuming this is your first, or onr of your first, tried with a new starter. And what do you mean by "accommodate a night in the fridge"? What was the procedure asked for and what did you do instead? To me it looks under fermented. As for what to do with it... ...
Community Bake - Baguettes by Alfanso This Community Bake will be featuring one of our very own; the "Baguette Baker Extraordinaire", Alan, aka alfanso. He is among a handful of fine baguette bakers on TFL who have spent years concentrating on baguettes, alfanso's favored craft, and his baguettes are consistently outst...	Thanks, Dan There are a lot of talented bakers on TFL, many with their own specialties. And so it is with our cadre of baguette bakers here. Fewer in number than other baking crafts, but a group of standout bakers nonetheless. And we are always looking to recruit more to our battalion.Dan asked me if I'd like partic...
Monstrous Bloom Again...Need help Well, I did it again. Crazy bloom that has me scratching my head. I will list the process I used to make this Lavender Hazelnut Sourdough Boule, but could this bloom be a product of my stater being young..(12 days)? I will say the taste turned out much better than I anticipated. The ha...	Trust your instincts I think your comment in your first post - that you felt the boule was underproofed - is right on. Nor do I think the poke test is all that accurate, especially when using a brotform. Taking a close look at the crumb, the alveoli (air cells) are more developed on the left side than on the righ...
Overnight retarding When making sourdough, and after divided and placed into bannetons, I retard the dough overnight in the refrigerator at 47 degrees. How long can I safely do this before baking? 12 hours, 15 hours, 24 hours? I like the bread to have a pronounced sour flavor but I don't want to run the risk of over...	You'll need to check on proof rates. For at least the first loaf, you'll want to occasionally check on the rate it's proofing; worst case scenario, you over-proof and 'lose' a loaf. I've retarded for several days, and not overproofed, but my starter practically stops at 6C.
Questions on Yeast Water I have been using raisin and tea yeast waters to wonderful results--my family and I love the flavour more than that of my old sourdough starter, but the culture got a bit tired and I was not sure if I was keeping it strong enough because I was maintaining the culture incorrectly. I was thinking...	Feed your YW honey once a week - none or very little sugar! I keep mine in the fridge and feel it is much better maintained that way. Take a few pieces of fruit, I use apples and put 5 pieces in, from the old and put it in the new. Add new fruit and 1 T of YW from the old. Add water 3/4 of the way to the top. I us...
Sourdough Starter Flour to Water Ratio I thought I would share this bit of info in hopes to help other people that encounter the same problem I did when trying to develop a strong, consistent sourdough starter.When I first tried making a sourdough starter, I followed the plethora of simple recipes/instructions there ar...	I had to throw out the first I had to throw out the first 4 attempts due to no doubling (just slight rise) and eventual dying. After a promising first week, they all turned into a very thin, non bubbling gloop.If it was very thin, it means you probably weren't feeding it equal parts by weight. A starter fed 1:1 equal ...
Questions on my first SD boule Seeing how this was my first sourdough boule I couldn't be more proud. The taste was fantasic with a mellow sourness and a creamy crumb. My question lies in why it bloomed the way it did. I will explain how I proofed it and hopefully someone can give me some insight on why I had such mons...	Wow! it's giving birth! Are there awards for sd midwifery? Good crumb, good color, maybe too early into the oven or too early into the brotform. Pretty good for a first sourdough loaf! Easy to rush a first loaf too, it just seems to take f o r e v e r !Was the dough surface rather dry from fridge retard and then...
nancy silverton and baker's percentage hii have been trying to figure out how to convert nancy silverton breads to a smaller amount of starter.she calls for 12-21 ounces per recipe and it seems so much! If i am scaling using baker's percentage-how do i figure in the starter?thanks!	High hydration starter I believe that Silverton uses a starter of about 188% hydration. My first starter was made by her procedure; she used equal volume flour and water ratio.Ford
My First Jeffrey Hamelman's 5 Grain Levain Here is my first try at JH 5 Grain Levain - with actual levain from my sourdough starter. My previous versions of this bread were with only commerical active dry yeast. I was happy with it, except wished for more rise/height in the boule.I think the seed topping is not part ...	Beautiful bake! One of my favorites. Judging from the crumb structure I'd say you got about as much rise as you were going to.Nice bake!Larry
Is a visual peak, really The Peak? Disclaimer: I am not asking the question I am about to ask, because I think common wisdom is wrong, and I have a better answer. I don't have an answer, I'm curious, and I've never seen an answer to related questions that wasn't in some way cast in The Common Wisdom.Common Wisdom: A pr...	mass, temperature, surface tension, partial pressure, gluten tensile strength, gas aggregation (bubble size), proteolytic enzyme activity, and gravity which I imagine effect the point of collapse. (There is likely others I haven't listed.). Secondly, I've had occasion to stir-down active starter at its visual peak, and...
Clues to a ripe starter I just wanted some advice from experienced bakers with sourdough starters. How do you tell when your starter is ripe and ready to make some fantastic sourdough bread? Thanks. I follwed sourdolady's starter recipe but I'm just not confident about my starter.	Does it at least double in After feeding, does it at least double in volume in 4-6 hours? If so, it's active enough. You want to actually use it before it reaches its peak ripeness and starts to collapse on itself. If it's collapsing on itself, it's overripe. How long will that be after you feed it? You have to pay a...
Too much starter Hi I am just starting to make a culture Nancy Silverton style. I am at the point where I feed it three times a day.What the heck do you do with all the rest of the culture and starter. We are starting a bakery in a few weeks and I'm not sure how much starter to use to make say ten loaves to start. H...	excess starter This is a subject that has come up several times on TFL, so if you do a search you will find lots of information. To summarize it for you, here are some popular options:Start with a very small amount when you begin feeding, so you end up using almost all in your dough, leaving a little to store in the r...
Help! Bread falls flat after international move Hello, Thank you for taking the time to read my cry for help. I will try to be as concise as possible.I started my sourdough journey back in February following a simple recipe found on feastingathome.com. My starter took about a month and a half to be fully active but I'...	Hi Jeanne Welcome to Europe! There could be several things going on. What's your recipe? And which flour are you using? That will help us help you. It sounds like the dough is fermenting too fast and you may have to shorten bulk times or reduce the amount of starter in the recipe as well. First the recipe. :)
Can I ask some dumb questions? These are some questions which puzzle me as I continue on my sourdough making journey. 1) is there any difference between making a loaf with 180g of starter and 180g of water, and one with roughly 360g of starter? I have often found myself with a lot more ripe starter than a recipe indica...	I would love to contibute to I would love to contibute to these questions, as I know very well what it's like to have a head full of questions that seem silly to ask. I do not have enough knowledge on most bread baking yet let alone sourdough, to be able to give good advice/answers. I do hope that the community here ...
Baking Baguette Must i use the stretch and fold method if I am using a poolish? Or i can knead usign any method?	Once you combine the polish Once you combine the polish with the rest of the ingredients for the final dough, you can use any kneading method you like. For a high hydration dough, stretch and fold is one of the easiest methods, but for a baguette at 65% or so, other methods will work just fine. Brad
Help getting that fruity starter smell My starter is the Tartine way.I mix it and dump it out everyday and add about 20 grams of ice cold water and 20 grams of refrigerated flour (Flour is 50% all purpose and 50% whole wheat)Sometimes after I dump it, it smells great- fruity, sweet, etc. Other times it does no...	The smell and flavor of your The smell and flavor of your starter indicate how much fermentation has taken place. The rate of fermentation is dependent on temperature, time, and quantity of available food. If the temp is fluctuating while you are holding everything else the same, that could be the reason for the diff...
whole wheat starter first attempt Sorry if this has been discussed in a previous topic I have searched but wasn't able to find a definite formula for a whole wheat starter. I decided to try my hand at WW starter and I found a ratio of 1/3c flour to 1/4 water for a rye starter but this ratio gave me a dry ball of paste....	New starters require patience and the just a little more patience. I like the ww method that Joe Ortiz uses with a tinge of milk and some cumin. But, just watch it and feed it and next thing you knew it will devoure the house :-)
Sunlight vs Darkness for Starters Ok so I've been getting into the nitty-gritty of starter microbiology and came across an interesting question. Will the type of yeasts contained in your starter be different depending on the type of container it is housed in? I use a glass jar, my friend uses an antique ceramic pot w...	I think the difference would only be noted if you stood both jars in direct sunlight. The sunlight itself can be a deterrent to growth. One that doesn't let light in would naturally be unaffected unless we count how the temperature is influenced. Avoid direct sun if you can. If you need a warm location and want to ...
Do you line your proofing basket? The other day I was baking two loaves, and I only had one proofing basket so I took a wicker basket and lined it with a dish towel which I floured and used as an impromptu basket. Ironically I hadn't properly floured the proper basket near the edge of the top and when I turned the bask...	Use rice flour or RF mixed half and half with AP - no sticking. It depends on the look you are looking for. I use both methods all the time depending on what look I want the finished bread to have. Both work just fine if flouring is done well and with Rice Flour.See David Snyder's tutorial on scoring that he just po...
Smelly starter - is it dead? I keep my sourdough starter in a sealed container in the fridge and bring it out a couple of days before using it. I opened the lid of the container and was met by a sharp almost glue-like smell. Oh no is my starter dead?Or is it possible that by keeping the starter in a sealed container no...	Just throw out all but 2 Just throw out all but 2 tbsp., and feed it for a few days, keeping it at room temp. Should be as good as new. It is difficult to kill a well established starter.
Newbie - Do I cover my sourdough starter??? Short & sweet:1) When creating my starter, the instructions in the book say to cover for 2-3 days with a towel until bubbly. My starter is now bubbly - as I feed it, do I keep it covered?2) I read the bubble starter might NOT be yeast, but bacteria. How can I tell? The tar...	Joel, That's kind of the Joel,That's kind of the reason why you want to cover the starter. Even though a little protein couldn't hurt your bread :) you probably want to avoid having flys and spiders living in your starter.You should keep it loosly covered when first creating it and certainly covered once you have it s...
"Starter" vs. "Leaven" Greetings!I had been making my own bread for a while but was making several fundamental mistakes until I took a bread making class which instantly improved my bread. They gave us a a sourdough starter which I fed over a few days/weeks until I had enough volume to bake with. The recipe they gave u...	English or French Since it's 'levain' in French, it's translated (badly) into 'leaven' in English. Your starter is your levain or leaven.
tartine starter instructions hi everyone, I'm new in here and this is my first post. I have some quesitons about the Tartine book's directions for building a starter.The tartine book, and a few things I've read online here are my reference points for artisan SD breads. I've baked loaves using commercial yeast, and I'...	thoughts am I keeping a tablespoon of the old starter (about 30g) and then a tablespoon of 50/50 flour, and a tablespoon of water? "Equal parts" means "equal parts by weight", not equal parts by volume, if you want to be accurate about your baking. This assumption is true 99.9% of the time in bread baking recipes/formu...
Rapid development in new "Hamelman" rye starter. Because I was an idiot and pulled an amateur slicing of my finger that dripped into my rye starter, I started a new one, just following Hamelman as I always do. Never had this happen, wonder what your thoughts are. 1:1:1 at 78F, per Hamelman (which seems like a lot - m...	Yup, start using it (that's an order, sir) and switch to a higher feeding ratio so you are not a slave. Give it a 1-5-5 feeding (s-w-f) and see how long it takes to peak. Meanwhile use the peaked starter in a recipe. Wheat or mixed a 1-2-3 sourdough to check the reaction.
My First Sourdough Hi all. I am new to this site, but have been following it and it's recipies since I started baking bread about 4 months ago. The following photos are of my 1st and 2nd sourdough loaves, baked the same day. Up until last week, I was busy perfecting a few riffs off of Jeffrey Hamelman's Five Grain L...	Looks great! Looking forward Looks great! Looking forward to the crumb pics too! From the looks of the crust, I know the crumb will be beautiful.
Cherry Yeast Water - question on activity I've got a batch of cherry yeast water I've been brewing since 2 days ago. I recently put it in a bigger home, fed it a little snack of brown sugar (just a few sprinkles since I thinned it out when I transferred it,) and it's already developing bubbles. In fact, it's got enough...	I normally take about 7-14 days to take YW to the bread ready stage. Don't feed mine sugar though. I use honey. In a few days you can test it by making a levain and see how long it takes to double. it it doubles in 8 hrs you are ready.
I am so embarrassed I usually try to eat healthy food. Brown rice, tofu, beans, no processed foods, etc. BUT I find that I greatly prefer sourdough bread made with white flour to whole wheat sourdoughs.I've been baking Peter Reinhart's pain au levain (from Artisan Baking Every Day) with Oregon Trail starter, using whit...	I'm just the opposite. If it doesn't have 25-30% whole grains, it's not very tasty or healthy bread. To each his own.
Crust very thin and quite soft on SF Sourdough from Reinhart's Artisian Breads Every Day - suggestions or alternative recipes? I was starting to post this and decided to search more before asking. Seems this was covered in the past in the following thread a while back:http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/26226/no-decent-cr...	dmsnyder (David Snyder) has a great SF SD called SFBI from his time a the San Francisco Baking Institute, that he perfected over many bakes. He has the crust you want but yo will need to do different steaming, I recommend Sylvia's method of putting a rolled up kitchen towel in a half filled Pyrex loaf pan of water tha...
Why does Hamelman add instant yeast to his Volkonbrot & Pumpernickel? Why does Hamelman add instant yeast to his Volkonbrot & Pumpernickel?I've read that sourdough bread is best for diabetics due to a lower glycemic index. He does things 1/2 right in that a large portion of the dough has a sourdough culture, but then...	This is mostly about scheduling in a production enviromnment (according to personal communication with Mr Süpke).This way of baking is pretty much standard throughout Germany, see my other blog entries, or the Sauerteig blog posts on Baecker Süpke's bloghttp://baeckersuepke.wordpress.com/2010/02/05/thema-sauerteig/http...
Detmolder Sourdough Bin? I've been baking no-knead white flour sourdough boules from a dough bin in my fridge for the past few years--an idea I got in part from Artisan Bread in 5 minutes a Day. (In the case of this straight dough--inoculated with a white flour sourdough starter, which I let ferment/double outside the...	High ryes tend to retard badly Rye tends to stiffen with too cold a temperature and crack instead of stretch. A cold room can work but a regular refrigerator is far too cold for high rye doughs. Rye is not wheat and will behave differently. If you want to retard rye, do it in the first two stages, not in the third ...
Rye Starter from Bread Flour Starter Questions I have a couple questions.I took 1/2 teaspoon of starter from my white bread flour sourdough starter--4 years established now--and threw it in another clean crock. I then added equal weights of Hodgson's Mill Rye Flour and water to the crock and stirred it up. It doubled...	Way to go! It sounds like you already have a very active rye starter ready for bread baking, loafgeek!I wish I could understand more of the science behind sourdough, but I share your view on the adaptability of the culture. A starter will adapt to changes in the climate, different flours, ambient temperature, feeding s...
Barm Health Question/Opinion Ok, so I made a sourdough barm (starter.....are those words interchangeable???) using whole wheat flour. The thing took off! I used Peter Reinharts method from The Bread Bakers Apprentice (not sure if that's relevant). SO, now I have 6 cups of barm ready to be used as needed. I'm not able t...	My procedure This is my procedure. I store the starter in the refrigerator for weeks, perhaps as long as a month, before removing and refreshing. My normal procedure is below; the amounts may vary depending upon how much starter I need. My most frequently used recipes require about 27 ounces Av. (weight). I also ha...
Runny dough Hi all, I'm quite a newbie to bread making but couldn't wait to get in to sourdough breadmaking.I was hoping for some ideas on why when I use my sourdough starter, when I try to shape my bread the dough has become very runny. It stretches like crazy and has no elasticity at all. I have tried keeping the fin...	A few recipe details required ... ... please Chris. In order to help, folk will need a little more information to know what's happening with your SD baking method. For example: quantities, fermentation/proofing times, ambient room temperature. Also feeding schedule for your starter, and what stage of development it is ...
Spliting trouble I cooked two loaves in the weekend. One was white and one wholemeal. I used the same recipe but adjusted it by adding half the flour as wholemeal to get the wholemeal loaf. I was happy with the loaves, but when I turned the wholemeal one over I noticed cracking all the way around the base. I cooked it ...	The most common cause is that the fan blowing set the crust baking it before it could stretch completely... the dough surface was too dry when it went into the oven preventing it from stretching. Under-proofed means a little more proofing needs to stretch the volume of the loaf just a bit more before baking. I thi...
Noob tackles moist 90% hydration Honestly, I don't know what I was thinking. Usually I keep my starter in the fridge but I got it going nicely after leaving it out for a few days so I must've gotten excited.I've made a couple dozen sourdoughs but all the same recipe from the day I started, a light whole wheat from The ...	I'd say that's a successful loaf! It's fun to play around with the same recipe making changes. The start to good learning experiences. Hope you're taking down notes. :)
Slow starter = bacteria got off the wrong side of the bed today? Today is my 8th day of nurturing the sourdough starter. I noticed that after today's feeding, it seems sluggish. The only thing I did differently from the other days is that I used a handheld mixer to whisk in air for about 3 minutes on highspeed. It was ...	I talk a little bit about I talk a little bit about this on my www.allthingswheat.com blog, but in an effort to not sound like I'm just plugging myself for all you haters.....It really isn't necessary to whisk air into the mixture. Just stirring vigorously with a spoon is enough to get the yeasts and enzymes in a good ...
Sourdough Onion Rye I thought I'd share my latest loaves because I don't post much, but appreciate everyone's comments/advice. I'm kind of fond of the whole Jewish baking because currently I live in the Bronx, NY, where Rose Levy Birnbaum and I believe Stan Ginsberg grew up. Anyways, there's a lot of heritage here in ...	Would like to see some crumb shots of these fine breads. The one on the left sure looks like it rose and sprang much more. Nothing like some extra malt and vinegar to make a higher rising bread.Nice baking.
Sourdough Starter Does proofed starter mean that you feed it and it has risen and fell?????	Refreshed Starter I use the term "refreshed starter" and I presume this is the condition you are inquiring about. When I use the term, it means that the starter is ready for use, that is the yeast and the lactobacteria are fully active. Depending upon the hydration of the starter, it may have risen to nearly the max ...
Pineapple juice starter. OK...I made a batch of starter using the pineapple juice technique. On day four, I stopped the pineapple juice and started daily feeds with KA AP flour. I am about two weeks into this starter and I can still smell the pineapple juice (or something similar to it). Anybody have any suggestions on...	If all else seems right, I If all else seems right, I would not worry about the smell. Keep going forward with your starter and all will be well.Jeff
Feel so nervous - like it's a first date or something! I have been baking for a few years now. For the last 18 months I've made all our breads and before that, on and off with about 30% of our bread needs for a few years before that, but... I've never done a sourdough. I have tons of baking books. I've read about start...	It is a whole new world I It is a whole new world I hear mine yelling to be fed now and feel compelled to stop reading and go give them attention, so honey, I get it! The sarters are alive and depend on you for survival! One of my colleagues took some of my starter I began years and years, now I get to see picutes of ...
sourdough success What has happened here? I followed the recipe for a sourdough loaf from River Cottage after seeing it referred to on a Fresh Loaf forum. I used my own sourdough starter. River Cottage said to keep the dough as wet as possible to improve the bread. So both loaves below used the same recipe, the loaf on...	The recipes might have been The recipes might have been the same, but I'll wager that gluten development was not. I'm guessing that the firmer loaf was given a more thorough kneading, although it looks like it might be slightly under-proofed.
Sourdough Starters Good Morning.I love to bake, but I've always stayed away from home baked Artisan breads until now. I've been doing some reading and I think it's about time I took a more serious stab at some real fresh baked bread.I was wondering how much merit is there to the geographical origin of sourdough starte...	It is more fiun to start one yourself. The store bought starters only stay that if you use the same flours and live in ths same place they came from. Since your store bought starter will convert to yours anyways you might as well save the money and start your own.Weware thoug SD bread baking is habit forming. Happy ...
Help with my 1st starter It is almost 24 hours since I first started making my sourdough starter and I haven't done the first feeding because I don't know if the starter is fermenting. Thing is, on top of the mixture is a layer of pretty clear water. Is that normal? I have stirred this mixture a few times and each time...	overkill 10 minutes of stirring is really unnecessary:) 1 minute is more than enough to incorporate air.If water ooches use less water next time. It's harmless, but unesthetic. Keep on feeding the starter and remember that it needs more patience than flour! Persist and you will be rewarded.
how can I tell... For the past few weeks I keep my starter (goldrush) at 16C (60.8F) and feed it once a day in the evenings around 10pm. I bake with it when it doubles or slightly more (12-14 hours). I collect the discarded parts and those will develop a layer of liquid on top in another day or two... This week I skipe...	I'm glad you skipped a feed. it needed the time to peak. It sounds like a once a day feed at 16°C is too often. Time the starter to when it peaks. As it peaks the dome will get flatter and it may look at if it's got a dimple in the middle, then if not stirred, it will soon fall on itself (we are talking wheat starte...
cold shape Has anyone tried a long (overnight) cold fermentation followed by cold shaping and then room temp proofing ?	I've tried a cold shape, but I've tried a cold shape, but the dough wasn't particularly co-operative at that temperature; I couldn't get much strenching without tearing the dough, and when it warms up it will slacken, losing some of the shaping.I shape then retard, simply for the easier handling and scoring.
Need help with a gummy crumb??? spring.jpg So after taking a break from sourdough for a while and working on improving my regular French bread skills, I figured that I was ready to tackle a basic sourdough again and avoid the gummy crumb that's plagued me since I've started. I used Maurizio Leo's "Beginner Sour...	Troll, I experienced Troll, I experienced something similar when using high gluten flour. Have you experimented with different types of flour?The boule is beautiful...Danny
Shaping loaf My first sourdough starter is doing well and I have baked 2 loaves of bread now that came out with a beautiful crust and great flavor. I'm using a Sassafrass LaCloche to bake my bread. However, my loaves want to spread out instead of rising into a nice boule. I am placing the "rounded" shaped loaf on th...	Hi, JRod If you click on the Handbook link at the top of the page, you'll find it has a section devoted to shaping, including some helpful videos. Those may help address your question. If not, feel free to ask additional questions.Paul
Why a seed culture and a barm I understand the reasoning behind bumping up the starches/seed culture to evoke more flavor yada yada, but why do we have to build them separately. Why can't weincorpoculture seed culture into the final dough and adjustpercentages there. A little unclear of the real reason behind this extr...	Baker's terminology If you're asking if you can incorporate your sourdough starter into your final dough, and make adjustments in the final dough because the starter hydration may be higher or lower than what the formula calls for, sure you can. Just be sure to hold back enough of your sourdough so you can refresh i...
New to site - Sourdough smells like Paint Stripper Hi allHave read this fabulous site for ages but just joined.I made a lovely Sourdough 2 months ago. Made a few loaves and they were pretty good.My Sourdough is stiff and I feed it each day. It never got a strange colour or odour as I have read about.But then ....Eeee...	ketosis The yeasties are hungry. Ketones are a by-product of auto-digestion. Feed your mother two or three times and all should return to normal.cheers,gary
Garlic in bread I crushed a load of garlic and ground up some rosemary for a sourdough loaf; the loaf didn't rise much, in fact it barely rose at all. I recall that crushed garlic has Allicin, which is antibacterial and antifungal, so I'm going to go assume that it actually killed all the yeast in the bread. As I inc...	I put garlic in bread all the time - no problem. Yeast eat it right up - It's the vampires and werewolves that die if they eat the garlic bread. Seriously, sometimes the vampires suck all the blood out of the werewolves before they both die from teh garlic in the bread! Yeast and garlic - no problem. I suppose it...
Blackberries instead of grapes to seed new starter? I'm ready to try sourdough again, now that I learned that my bad luck was likely caused by trying to use up all the bleached flour I have by feeding it to the starters I made.I've read about using organic grapes to innoculate a new starter - any thoughts on whether th...	Blackberries vx. grapes The reason grapes are suggested is because of the bloom on the skins that contains yeast spores. I doubt if blackberries have a yeast coating on them. I don't think you really need either. If you use, organic whole wheat flour to start you should have plenty of yeast from the grain alone. Once t...
Retarding shaped loaves Just a quick question, how long should retarded loaves sit at room temp before baking? I've never retarded my loaves before...?Also, just use regular oven temp, preheating etc?Thank you!	I don't bring mine to I don't bring mine to temperature at all, and regular preheating.
Starters.... Using, Keeping and keeping it SAFE!!!! Okay, first dumb question. I assume I can keep a tight lid on the started AFTER it has become a mature starter? As in, it doesn't need wild yeast anymore. It is mature enough for baking. For what its worth, its about 500g of 100% hydro, kept in a 2 quart cambro contai...	Taking from the starter and Taking from the starter and building a levain is the most common route, although 500g of flour is a monster volume to maintain; you could get away with much less! I maintain 60-70g of starter.I believe that gas buildup is the reason lids/covers are normally left on jars; while I doubt most ...
Sourdough stopped rising Hi, everyone!My first attempt at making my own sourdough starter was successful and I have been baking with it for several months now. It's always been very healthy and active and given the bread a good rise.A few days ago I fed it the usual amount (I ususally use white flour for the starter) a...	I know you feed 3x per day, I know you feed 3x per day, but how much do you actually feed it, ie., ratio of saved starter to new flour to new water? Also, normally does your starter reaching full activity between feedings (ie., just starts to collapse, and you feed not long after tha?)Have you changed flours, changed w...
What to do with ww sourdough bread with burnt crust My last batch of wholewheat sourdough was a disaster from start to finish. I was distracted and didn't mix the starter thoroughly enough. Nonetheless, I mixed up the dough and waited for it to rise in the refrigerator. Rise was slow and I was worried that it would be ...	I find really sour bread to I find really sour bread to be a great flavor base for savory bread pudding. I've made a tomato bread pudding and a gruyere and leek one that were pretty good. Some other ideas:- cube and toss in plenty of olive oil and herbs to make croutons. They go great with a cool gazpacho. Perfect for ...
How do I know what % my starter is? I am using the Tartine starter.I dump 80% and re-feed water and 50/50 flour.Thanks	Starter Percentage Assuming you've been feeding it 50/50 consistently, you have a starter hydration of 100%.Larry
Starter help I'm baking my way through Ken Forkish's book, Flour, Water, Salt, Yeast, and attempting to create a starter. I followed Forkish's starter instructions, but scaled everything down to 1/10th the amount since I want to maintain a small starter.Today is day 10, I've been discarding and feeding each morning, an...	Use it. Enjoy! Use it. Enjoy!
Seeded Multi Grain Sourdough So Proud I had to share!This is my comeback from an over-proofed disappointment (aka bread crumbs) on Monday. This is my interpretation of a mixed grain seeded sourdough.My formula;16 oz Bread Flour 80%2 oz Spelt 10%1 oz WW 5%1 oz Rye 5%13-14 oz Water somewhere between 65-70%Additions;1 o...	That is some fine looking bread. I love your recipe with spelt, rye ww with Bulgar scald. The seeds look terrific too. This has to be a fine tasting bread. Show us a crumb shot when you cut into it!Very nice baking.
Going on vacation: How to keep starter alive? To those of you who've successfully been maintaining starters for years now:I'm a newbie bread baker. I've grown two starters from scratch, both using Reinhart's methods. The first one is a white starter made using the pineapple juice method. The second one is a wholewheat ...	A couple of suggestions Hi Maya,I recently returned from a trip about the same length as yours and I kept my 100% hydration starter in the refrigerator during my time away. I refreshed it the night before I left and left it out until it started to form bubbles, then refrigerated it. The important thing is to be sure ...
Purchased Dried Starter Reactivation Survey I see lots of people promoting Sourdough International's dry cultures on this forum; has anyone had any negative experiences with their cultures? Has anyone had any luck with dried cultures from any other companies? Candy_DaMilleri	Dried Starter Can't help you with info on Sourdough International's dry cultures. I have reactivated starters from http://www.breadtopia.com and http://www.nybakers.com. I used the instructions from breadtopia.com for both, and both were bubbly and active in two days, though the breadtopia one seemed the most active at...

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