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Danie Leader's Whole Rye Berry Loaf (local Breads) In my quest for the (successful) 100% Rye bread I baked this loaf yesterday:I really was not sure how it will turn out because of several challenges: 1. I only have Hogson Mills whole Rye flour ( DL talks about a finally ground rye flour).2. The recipe for the rye SD m...	What a nice looking 100% rye bread inside and out. The crumb looks very open. It's one of our favorites especially with a big soaker!. Congratulations!I have 50% dark rye and 50% whole spelt loaf doing its final proof on the counter. We will bake it like a pumpernickel using low and falling temperatures over severa...
What's the right way to clean jars and utensils that I use for my starter? Hello, I am getting ready to start my own sourdough starter but not quite sure what's the best way to keep things clean. Some people say they using dish soap is ok, some say they never use any soap, just hot water to clean jars and utensils. Als...	soak in cold water first to remove any flour or paste then wash with warm soapy water rinsing in hot water. Dry. (just like regular dishes) Yes, I also use the dishwasher after the container has been soaked clean. I tend to juggle between two wide mouth easy to clean containers. A deli container is good enough for...
Sourdough Preferment I have seen (at least) two types of recipes…One calls for a preferment which is made the night before and makes up only a portion of the total weight of the dough’s water and flour.For example…2 oz Sourdough Starter (fed 12 hours previously and left out on counter. i.e. just starting to sag)3 oz Wa...	Better Or Not, I Leave Mine On The Countertop Overnight I mix one-third of my flour, and the appropriate water, into my sourdough starter, and leave it to pre-ferment overnight on the countertop. The other two-thirds of the flour is left overnight, on the countertop, to pre-soak with the rest of water and some yogurt....
Starter Experiments: Kombucha Hi all,I recently created my first Sourdough starter. I've been fermenting various things for a while and tackled sourdough late November. I started two starters. One using a more traditional method on another site, and another in which I used active kombucha (a fermented tea that uses ...	Yes, I would call it a legitimate sourdough. Not all baked goods leavened with sourdough culture taste sour. Hard to say if it will make sour tasting bread with time.
Starter Question I have a starter that is about 60 days old. It's Peter Reinhart's recipe. I don't use it that often, maybe once a month. When I do bake, it is usually on the weekends. It's been in the fridge for most of it's life. I feed it approx 100 g ap flour and 100 g water once or twice a week. When I need it, I ...	Feeding A common rule of thumb is to feed the starter enough food to double the amount at a minimum. That means if you have 100 grams of starter, you'd feed it 50 grams of flour and 50 grams of water. If you're starting with 200 grams of starter, you'd feed it 100 grams of flour and 100 grams of water. The more starter...
How much starter to use? Greetings I wonder how much starter to use when making a dough. Please give me an average in percentage. I mainly make pizza dough, consisting of 1300g AP flour, and 735g water. How much starter should I prepare for this? I'll use the starter to make a poolish of all the water and an equal weig...	generally I use 20% of the total flour in the preferment.
Could my starter have too much bacteria and not enough yeast? Hi all,this is my first post here and I stumbled upon a similar question a while ago, but not exactly the same. I'm truly lost and have tried every solution I could think of, but my starter is just not producing good bread. I'm not sure how to start and how ...	Disclosure: I’m no expert but I recently rescued my starter from being too acidic and like you, the dough was falling apart after bulk and I was getting bricks instead of my usual bread. Long story short, I think you need to increase the frequency and the size of your feeds. Feed once your starter has peaked. This mea...
New baker's luck? Hello! I've recently taken up baking in lieu of my quitting smoking. I started with cooking, pots of pork and beans, chili and such. But then made flat-dumplings for a southern style chicken and dumplings. From there, I thought, "Why not try bread!" and began by making a loaf of rye bread. It was a li...	Great looking loaf! Welcome Great looking loaf! Welcome to the site!-Floyd
Established my starter. Beginner question! Hello everyone-I just successfully established a whole wheat starter (it now doubles within 3-5 hours!) and it's fairly vigourous and consistent. My question is, when I want to make naturally leavened bread, and a recipe asks for a "mature starter", what does that mean? Should...	A mature starter is a stable A mature starter is a stable starter, and generally you'd use it around about the time it has doubled. Some time before or after will not ruin the process. The basic formula I use for my daily bread is a 1,2,3 formula (hey, it's easy to remember ;).1 is your levain (starter)2 is water (2 ...
How to Bake my Loaf I am making my first sourdough loaf today. I'm a total novice so please be nice to me :) Do most people here who use a regular oven bake on a baking stone and do you add water to the oven for moisture?Thanks in advance!	I use chad robinsons method I use chad robinsons method of a cast-iron double cooker with awesome results from day 1. When baking with stones for multiple loafs I steam the oven with on of those hand held steam cleaners.
A simple technique for French bread? I have been making batards and baguettes for about six months now. I started out using Dan Leader's stiff levain baguettes and then found txfarmer's 36+ hour baguettes. So I currently keep a 70% starter and a 100% starter in my fridge, both to make baguettes that are around 76% hydr...	Concentrating on shaping & proofing Why not make things easy on yourself and start making your French bread with a straight dough recipe - no levain, no poolish? And step back the hydration to a more workable 66-68%. Then you can concentrate on dough handling and proofing and still attain a nice, open crumb.BTW, pate...
Time and Temperature I have a question I've not been able to answer to my satisfaction after searching online and favorite books. Many of my bread bakings begin with someone elses formula wherein I convert or modify either ingredients and/or procedures.The two changes I'm frequently unsure of are:How much natural leva...	Partial answer Dave, Poolish, Biga or Sourdough on average are 20 to 30%of the total flour. It helps to set up an Excel spread sheet to help with the calculations. Remember Total Flour because a poolish is wet, a biga is dry, and storage sourdough could be either.Jim
Leftover starter This question was sent to me via email: I have been making bread since the mid 1970's. During the past few years, I have been experimenting with starters instead of using variations on the straight yeast dough method. More recently, I have been experimenting with starters, sour dough, and related ap...	keeping your starter I used to suffer badly throwing away good starter! But I've got a partial solution to this now. I take 30 grams starter, add 30 of water and 50 grams of organic white bread flour, mix, ferment an hour or so, then cover it and put into the fridge. This stiffer starter keeps very well in refrigeratio...
My starters don't like white flours - thoughts? I've tried a few times to get starters going. While I've been able to use my latest one to bake pretty good breads, I've noticed that as I keep refreshing/feeding with AP or bread flours, it takes longer and longer to rise. It gets to the point that it doesn't double even...	Rye starters tend to more Rye starters tend to more active. You can keep 2 starters and when converting your rye to awhite one do it over 3-4 feedings so you make sure it has tip unread to the light side:)some people do keep a starter with a percentage of both so you can give that a go as well.in any case I would buil...
I need more starter Ok my starter is doing great but now I need more. To increase the amount of starter I maintain can I just feed with equal weight of flour and water without discarding any? I have approx 2 cups of starter I want to keep 3-4 cups on hand. a typical feeding involves removing 1 cup of starter then addi...	'Used' flour is a dead weight 'Used' flour is a dead weight (literally and figuratively), in my experience. If I need more starter, I will usually just remove the excess, and add more flour/water.
Dead Starter? Ok here is my story:I have done the many successful Tartine bakes in the past, but I lost my starter for those particular bakes. So I decided to start fresh and went and bought flour which I thought was good. Arrowhead Mills stone ground whole wheat and same brand of white flour organic. I started my star...	As suggested in the other thread... Don't feed it so much. You're diluting it way too much and too often. If you keep 30 grams of starter, feed it only 15 grams of flour and 15 grams of water, and only feed it once a day until it wakes up.
Starter Feed HiI need some advice re my starters (4x - I know, too many). I created 2 some time ago, and because I could. I morphed some discards into a wholewheat and a rye starter. They are all 100% hydration. I realise now that I don't need all these different types, but can't bear to throw any out. I decided to ...	Show no mercy Show no mercy and reduce your starters down to one. The fact that you utilized discard to establish new flavors of starters should be enough to remind you that needn't keep so many. You can economize by simply using a seed from a starter to build a desired starter in three steps at a moderate room tempera...
stretch and fold question Hello,If I develop the gluten of my sourdough in a stand mixer for 15 mins and it comes out lovely and silky, is there still a need to stretch and fold at intervals during the rise?Or should I just leave it to rise without touching it?Any help gratefully received	No need at all Stretch and fold is a technique to develop gluten in doughs that are too wet to handle. If you have completely developed the gluten in a stand mixer then just cover the dough until it is ready to shape.
What happened to the round one?? Hello,this morning I baked two loaves from exactly the same bulk ferment, the same pre shaping, the same proving. Pics attached of the baked loaves and their respective crumbs.The only difference was that for the round one I experimented with a makeshift dutch oven (an upside down pot o...	Probably different shaping. Probably different shaping. Batards always tend to be a little taller for me in general, and if you created a stronger skin on the batard than on the round load it could cause a huge difference,
First attempt at sourdough starter This is my very first attempt at a starter. I used the KA Flour Baker's companion book for my formula. I followed it to the letter using a rye flour/water/molasses beginning. 4 oz water, 3 1/2 oz rye flour and 1/8 tsp molasses. On Day 2 I discarded half and added 4 oz water and 3...	Why is it so brown if you've Why is it so brown if you've been feeding it with AP flour?You might want to slow down on the feedings, and go back to a 2:1:1 ratio until the starter takes off. It looks like the yeast haven't awakened yet.
Guess what I found...(since I can only guess, myself!) Hi all,I picked up some (rather expensive) flour today, but not really sure what I should do with it. The label, in Japanese, says: "Seigle Type 130" and it's a mix of French rye flour and French wheat flour, but there's not a mention of the proportions. However, f...	I've weighed 100g of the "Mystery Mix" and added 100g of my very active 100% hydration, rye-fed starter. I mixed those up with about 50 (or so) grams of room-temp water. I have a very sticky, but thick, "stiff rye starter" now. This will languish overnight and, hopefully, do something interesting. I suppose I'll make a...
Have a look at these firm starters Decided the other day that I wanted to create a firm starter from both my white and WW 100% hydration starters. Want to see if I can get more sourness out of these firm creatures. I just started them 2/15 and have fed them twice. I plan on feeding them the same as my 100% hydration st...	My opinion is that "firm My opinion is that "firm starter" is anywhere from 50-70% hydration, which means that for every 1oz flour that you feed it, you feed it anywhere between 0.5 and 0.7oz water. The WW will be firmer because WW flour absorbs more water than white flour does. I'd say everything looks good, keep on g...
Sourdough Bread - Can I proof and then retard Although I have been lurking here for a year, this is my first post. Let me start out by saying how terrific this site is and how much I have learned. Thanks so much (and I bought Floyd's book - terrific!).I have been baking sourdough breads, with my own starter, for about...	For me, I use 20-25% levain For me, I use 20-25% levain with a dough temperature of 80 degreee F. Stretch and fold every half hour for the first 2 hours, then leave alone for one hour. Shape and bench proof for 1.5 -2 hours. Then into the refridgerator for 16-18 hours retard. It doesn't increase as much from the ...
'Home Baked' by Hanne Risgaard I was wondering if anyone that has purchased Ms Risgaard's book has had a chance to check out her 'Real Rye Bread' recipe. I don't understand why she mixed all of the dough ingredients and then takes out 400 grams of the dough and saves it for the next bake. How long can this be kept? I p...	Pâte Fermentée I haven't read her book, but it appears she is using old dough - sometimes also called a pate fermentee. If you use the terms "old dough" or "pate fermentee" in the TFL search bar, you'll find a number of conversations on the topic. Here are a couple:http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/6429/039old-dough...
Increasing the Potency of a Starter Hi TFLers,I have recently transitioned from “starting a starter” to “maintaining a starter.” There is lots of good info on the site about feeding cycles, hydration, and ratios, but I have not yet found an answer to the following question…Does maintaining a starter on the counter (roo...	Relax Your next goal should be to stabilize your starter, it will still develop on it's own over the next few weeks. The ideal would be to have a storage starter with a balance of wild yeast and bacteria. Developing a more flavorful/sour loaf should be done as a part of your storage starter is built and there are many ...
Taste your build Reading a number of sourdough topics, it strikes me that final flavor balance between sourdough and acid is often hit or miss until trying the finished loaf. However, if you are a good cook, and are making something new, you probably taste the effort along the way to correct for the flavors you are lo...	Taste your build +1. Always.
Feeding vs Starving -- a new starter As previously mentioned, I used the WW:Rye:Pinapple Juice method (1:1:2) for 4 consecutive days. My starter never became bubbly but it did move through a series of smells (yeasty, yeasty w. paint thinner) all on the “pleasant” side of the spectrum. Inside my bowl, things were wet an...	With a newly forming starter, it is better to err on the side of underfeeding if your temperatures are under 22°C or 72°F. The smell, "faint yeasty-alcohol" sounds like the beasties are on track. If your temps are higher up to 24°C or 75°F add just a flat table spoon flour and two of water to the 4 oz base and giv...
Building doughs This might seem like a basic question, but I've been struggling with getting a good texture and taste out of my new sour starter.One thing that confuses me is the amount of intermediate building steps in creating the final dough. Some recipes call for taking the starter and building a "levain" or interm...	Books Hi, C.B.Yes, your questions are basic, but they are, in my opinion, the most important questions a novice baker should ask, must ask. But, more importantly, the novice baker need find the answers. Others, apparently share those opinion, others meaning expert, experienced bakers who have written books defining th...
Is sourdough a misnomer? I am fairly new to the site and to baking bread, just started with both the site and bread at the beginning of the year. I have been reading volumes of information on starters: how to make, how to feed, etc. Isn't a sourdough starter just another form of leavening? Is it not a wild yeast vs...	Not necessarily - @theresasc Hi Theresa,Sourdough is a form of leavening, yes. It is a culture of wild yeasts, yes, and various Lactobacillus bacteria. Yes, you can substitute sourdough starter (aka levain, to French bakers) in place of commercial yeast for poolishes, sponges, or bigas. Leavening characteristics wil...
Stiff to liquid I'm finding it hard to find info online about converting a stiff starter to a liquid starter. I tried 30g stiff starter, 115g water and 100g flour, but despite some activity, the starter didn't quite double itself. It's bubbly, but not robust. I am trying to rationalize what the problem was, and solv...	This is a screen capture of This is a screen capture of my spreadsheet that I made up when wanting to convert my 85% hydration rye culture to a 125% hydration liquid white levain. You will need to know the hydration of your stiff culture; mine is 85%. You then decide the hydration of your target levain; mine is 125% in...
My starter gets wetter Hi allI've been trying to get a starter ... started but have an issue with the consistency after a fees.I started with 50g strong flour and 50ml water. Since then I'd've been adding the same every day. I get bubbles, but no rise. The smell isn't great, but I'm not sure I know what I'm looking for...	increase the water amount loose is good, one sign of fermentation but if you add more water, fermentation will progress faster. More information would be helpful like specific temperature, how long you have been playing with it, and what it does smell like. Are you now following a recipe? Starters take a lot of pa...
Does this look right Hi AllI am new to bread making so am very much at the experimentation stage.Until recently I only made bread by keeping a little of the dough from one batch to use in the next which certainly improved my bread making it softer and better tasting but as I said I am new to all this and one day when I...	Looks good!! Looks like you have a nice thriving starter. Use your extra to make waffles or pancakes, also put some in quick breads it gives it a wonderful flavour. You'll find a good sourdough pancake/waffle recipe on kingarthurflour.com.Happy Baking!!
Tartine starter part 2 I had many succesful bakes using this method but have took a rest for a bit and lost my starter. So now im creating a new one and am a bit rusty. I followed the book created the first days starter and bubbled up properly after 2 days. I discarded the 80% and since the first feeding havent had muc...	I have some old posts on my I have some old posts on my blog about building a starter if you want to check it out...I would say that, if you are feeding again from scratch, you should be feeding more frequently than every 24 hours. When I was building my starter I was needing to feed it every 6-8 hours to get anything...
Starter has lots of bubbles but not rising. I posted this on another forum and this site was recommended to me. So I am posting here as well. From replies on the other site it seems as if maybe I have too much hydration. Just wanting to get it on the right track. Its still young so I want to make any corrections now in...	Theya re right. too much water. The starter bubbles but it can't hold in the gas so the bubbles come to the surface and burst without raising the volume. Not to worry - an easy fix. Next time you feed, keep 1/4 c of starter, toss the rest or make some EM's or pancakes with it, and add 2 c of flour and 1/2 cup of w...
Something off mid feeding cycle of starter Hi, I've had my current starter for around 2 years and until recently it has performed perfectly, being used almost every day. Around a month ago I began to notice a sulphuric smell mid feeding cycle. There is absolutely no smell upon feeding, then after around 6-8 hours the s...	Temperatures? Try increasing the old leaven to 30%. or more.... Would the problem coincide with a drop in temperature either water, flour, or room? Drafts?What is the schedule for the starter? In how many hours at what temperature do you need it ready to add into dough?
Drying starter Hello, After some recent issues with my starter I'm looking to dry some as a back up. I'm going for drying it out on parchment paper, but wondered when is best to dry? I'm assuming that once the starter has reached its peak after feeding would be best but just wondered what other peoples experiences were...	depends on your humidity. If low humidity, dry it peaked.If high humidity and drying may take a day or two, feed it first, it will peak while drying.
Uk Flour I'm baking crazy now. A few colleagues are buying loaves off me at work too so I'm considering buying in some larger sacks of flour-16kg seems to be the usual. I'm absolutely bewildered by the choice available. I've been using a very strong canadian white for my sourdough loaves which I like very much but its ...	Wessex Mills Wessex Mill is fantastic, but only available in 1.5kg in some places like Partridge's, Selfridge, etc. You can order online though, they sell large bags (10, 16 or 25kg) : http://www.wessexmill.co.uk/acatalog/Small_Bags.html#a69 Their strong white is fantastic and gives a very nice, soft bread. All organic...
hydration for bench proving Hi thereI've been making loaves using bannetons with some success(and some failures!). I've been using about 67/68% hydration- I do struggle to 'tighten' the dough enough to keep a good shape if I go any wetter=just the simple problem of everything sticking. I appreciate this might be viewed...	Hello Albert Thanks for your Hello AlbertThanks for your advice. I'll take it onboard. I do need to be patient too-shaping is clearly a skill thats developed over months and years rather than days and weeks.I'm using cane bannetons if that makes any difference.Thanks againDarren
Maintenance Starter Feeding Ratios Hello all,I captured my own wild yeast and have kept it alive and I think happy for about 8 weeks or so. I have been reading so many different pieces of advice about feeding for maintenace and have never seen anyone else feed at a ratio of 1:6:6. I was wondering if anyone had any insi...	Because most people post when they have a starter problem not when the starter works for them. That is why the ratios are low (1:1:1, 1:2:2) to put the starter back to the beginning steps. Once a starter is purring along and you can read your starter, judging the fermentation and balance, you can refresh or feed jus...
Multiple Starters Is there any benefit of having two different starters? I have a AP and WW, from what I have read is eventually they will become the same over time. Any difference in taste? Both are doing extremely well in the 10 days that they have been alive.	Multiple options Depends on your baking practice, frequency and palate's sensitivity. While environmental factors such as frequency of refreshment, temperature of growth, extent of growth, retardation etc. will contribute majorly to the character of a starter, so will the feed on which you maintain it. WW is higher i...
It all started when I tried 85% hydration sourdough. Hello everybody,I'm Ed. I'm new here. Not sure if I'm in the right forum, but I'm having problems with my 85% hydration sourdough. The recipe (Buckwheat with Toasted Groats and Creme Fraishe) is from Chad Robertson's Tartine Book no. 3. Sorry this is going to be a lo...	Bare with me? I suppose you meant "bear with me"?
Anxious Starter Before getting to the meat and potatoes of my questions, I want to warn you that I am as green as they come when it comes to knowledge on sourdough starters. I know that these questions have been asked numerous times before but I think I will understand it better if my specific situation is used. I crea...	Hello kap1492 Hello kap1492,I urge you to read Mike Averys sourdough primer and you will find that a lot of your questions are answered. http://www.sourdoughhome.com/index.php?content=starterprimerI'll give you some quick answers to get you started.1/ you can start using the starter when it doubles in volume within 4 ...
A nice Oklahoma sourdough boule photo I created my own starter 3 years back by harvesting natural Oklahoma yeast. Lately I've been on a protein diet and haven't had the chance to make bread in several months. I pulled the ol' starter out this week and got a sponge going. I made a loaf last night and oh my how good it t...	Beautiful! Beautiful!
Starter backup I have to take my starter abroad and wonder what would be the best way - taking it from the fridge for a journey of more than 20 hours, or preparing a dry backup which is easier to carry - but I wondered if you loose anything when you are drying your starter - after all some of the microorganisms for sur...	The important question Is, are you flying? That would restrict how you can carry the starter, as most (all?) airlines have restrictions on carry on liquids. Am watching this, as I will soon carry a couple starters across an international border. I am just going the dried route to avoid problems.
Commercial contamination of starter Browsing the net tonight and I cam across website that deals with all things fermentation amongst other things. There was a FAQ that discussed sourdough starters exclusively. One of the Q/A discusses the threat of contaminating a sourdough starter if it is kept too close to other ris...	Never heard of this happening, if it was a true threat we would have heard or experienced this ourselves. I take no precautions. Wild yeast has more survival skills and mine would most likely munch com. yeast for breakfast.
Whole wheat Sourdough starter behavior I've been SD'ing for a couple of years now and I've never been happy with my results. I am beginning again with a revived starter. (6 months since last baking) My question concerns the activity of the starter and if it is active. The starter, which is a 100% whole wheat from SD In...	This sound very much like the appearance of my 95% Whole Wheat/5% Dark Rye starter. I keep it in the fridge between major baking cycles, but when baking time comes along I feed it at 1:3:3 (Starter:Water:Flour) on 12 hour cycles at 100% hydration, and it appears very much like what you describe for the first several f...
Fridge proof vs. room temp For the first while when I did the Tartine method bake, I would also do a fridge proof overnight in the baskets, and I got excellent results. I didn't always want to bake post-bulk fermentation, so it would also allow me to time my bakes. Recently I needed to bake sooner, so I did a room temp...	Try it and see You can get 10 dufferent answers from 10 different bakers. Every baker bakes under the ability and conditions they have. The only good answer is to try it with your ability and conditions and judge for yourself.Jim
Sourdough & digestive health Hello, I regularly make Spelt Sourdough bread and have been aware of the basics of how and why sourdough is a beneficial for better absorption and digestive health. However as someone with a compromised digestive system, I would like to have a greater understanding of how the different meth...	Very Important matter In fact i noticed great improvement in digestion ever since i started baking with sourdough. But on the other hand, there was a negative thing i've also seen with my mom who is diabetic. After eating whole wheat bread made with sourdough her blood sugar used to spike high. Then i read a brief arti...
sourdough bread: the starter owns the place?.... Hi, I´m trying to raise my oun starter fo a sourdough. Actually, I´m not quite sure if it sourdough starter or levain, but my question would still stay the same whatever the kind of starter.... I wish to know if the recipes of sourdough bread (or any other naturaly leav...	It takes a bit longer to It takes a bit longer to ferment, but you can definitely bake with just your starter as the leavening agent. See the last thing I baked, for example. If you poke around here you'll find dozens of other formulas that solely use a starter, probably more than formulas that include both commercia...
Advice for a confused new guy Hi allId be grateful for a little advice.I've been baking sourdough a few weeks now and had some successes. Ive been using a method which doesnt seem that popular on forums but it's got me started in a simple fashion. The method Ive followed is described by Paul Hollywood in a book called ...	I perhaps should also have I perhaps should also have said that with the over proofed loaves I had actually increased the hydration to 65%. It surprised me how much stickier the dough was, 5% doesnt seem like much! So i wonder also if increased hydration can decrease proving time?Many thanksDarren
Sour Dough Starter The starter is almost like water last few times I have used it. Each time I thought it would not do as it is supposed to but after over night to develop a sponge it was bubbly and had grown a little. I baked with it and had a good loaf of bread.If I use 1 cup I replace with 1 cup of water and 1 cup ...	Feed me It sounds hungry to me. You say you remove one cup and replace it with a cup of water and cup of flour, but not how much total starter you have. It there is already a lot of starter you may not be replenishing it with enough food.When my starter looks like that (tired, watery, hung over) I discard most of it, a...
What is this super active starter people speak of? Hello,I keep my 100% hydration starter in the fridge. I top it up with the active starter left over from my next bake.When I take it out of the fridge I activate it by adding about a cup of flour and a cup of water to a half cup of starter. I let that sit for 12 hours ...	Your starter is not 100% Your starter is not 100% hydration: a cup of flour weight much less than a cup of water. If it doubles with this ratio, it probably pretty active! And you are probably using a rather strong flour?My 10% hydration starter or levains never more than double actually, but lower hydration grown much...
seeking a scoop of starter, cape town, S. Africa Hi thereI'm hoping there's another Cape Town-based baker on this forum who would be happy to part with a spoonful of sourdough starter. Someone who shall not be named threw away my entire store of starter during the holidays while I was away. I can start a new batch from...	Starter in SA Hi thereI run a small artisanal bakery in Johannesburg specialising in sourdough breads for an organic and natural market. I'd be happy to help with a small tub of starter (commenced in 2010). It is 1:1 mix of Eureka Pure Rye Flour / Water. Just need to work out logistics of getting it down to CT though. ...
Pineapple Starter Day 4 Help Today is day 4 of my pineapple starter and nothing noteworthy has happened. A thin layer has formed on top which tells me that something is happening. Instead of following up with the 2:1:1 feeding ratio, I just added another 2 tbsp of WW flour and juice since there has been no rise and ver...	Hang in there... I'm new to this too, and the farthest thing from an expert. I was in the same boat as you, and eventually got a starter to start--it just takes time.It should happen, though the wait can be excruciating. I doubt you still need the juice. I also seem to recall reading that the temp you cite might be g...
Yay! Yay! ἀνέστη! THANK YOU to everyone who participates in this forum!Yesterday morning I signed up on TFL in order to post the question, "When do I throw in the towel?" I had begun my first sourdough starter Jan. 18, Debra Wink's pineapple juice method, and no joy - just a few bubbles, a strong smell of acetone, and...	Time It will take time no matter what you do. I would try to avoid over-feeding for fear of diluting the culture of the little critters. I would feed once a day at 1:1:1, others will tell you 1:2:2. What ever works for you. If the room temperature is in the low 70's F then the lower feed ratio is probably safer, b...
Young Starter vs Mature Starter I just finished reading Tartine bread book and very excited to get started. This will be my first ever attempt and creating a SD starter, so I have a few general questions so I will lump them into this topic. The book discusses briefly the topic of mature and young starters. Correct men ...	A starter is correct or not from the beginning. You either have the correct organisms or not. That is really not a function of "young" or "mature." Once you do have a good starter, if your build is short, say 24 hours as in a commercial endeavor, you need a high concentration of organisms for acid and flavor in a hur...
Thick Putty, "Yeasty" smell, no bubbles Hello Fellow Fresh Loafers,After a year of using this site to get recipes and develop a novice understanding of the baking process, I decided to take the next step... and set up an actual account. I also figured, if I have an account, I should develop a starter. Using instruction...	Patience! The only thing you need in addition is patience. Yes, you are on the right track. What is the temperature? The optimum temperature is 75 to 85°F, but lower temperatures will work, just slower.When the starter begins to show activity, you can start using unbleached A P flour and eliminate the pineapple juic...
What is it supposed to smell like? So I've done a few different starts, even made a couple of nice loaves....my apt is fairly cool, so I started using a heating pad (wrapped in a towel) to set the startes on. when I go to do the first feedings, I notice a really strong smell...so, what is sourdough supposed to smell li...	feed this Question into the site search machine... upper left corner of the page :)
Sourdough Bread Ages? I don't know if others have noticed this, but it seems my sourdough bread is not static in taste after it is baked. That is to say, the longer(days) it sits around, the more sour it seems to get. It's not unpleasant or stale just more tangy. Is there a reason for this? I have to say I'm surpris...	Yes Have noticed. Is good. Can't explain.Awaiting enlightenment from someone closer to the window.
Old Starter needs to be revived Hi Folks,I have a natural yeast starter that has been in the fridge for the past 6 weeks or so without feeding it. Now I want to revive it. Any insights to the best way to do this would be appreciated.	My Way Take one part, by weight, of starter and add equal parts of flour and chlorine-free water. Let sit at about 75 to 85°F until doubled (about 8 hours) then repeat. Starter should be raring to go.Ford
Managing starter flavour Hey there,I have a starter (45 days old) that is starting to develope some wonderful flavour. Each loaf is more complex and beautiful , HOWEVER...The sour notes are and have been always far too strong for my (and anyone's) tastes. Is there anyway to melllow it out?I have changed the hydration l...	-Feed your starter more -Feed your starter more often.-Feed it before it is fully ripe.
Another Ph Question I've got a WW starter going from refrig storage. It's been about 2 weeks since pulling them out of the fridge and I've baked two batches of rolls with the resultant starter. They were somewhat successful, dense, but with some oven rise. I'm looking for more rise out of the bread. I'm modifying the h...	pH Yes, it is lower case "p" and upper case "H". There is probably little buffering agent in either the bottled water or your well water. Given that neither is chlorinated, I would go with the well water; its cheaper and you know the source of it.To speed up the rise of your dough, and judging from your note it seem...
Bulk fermentation time...what's the maximum? How to handle long bulk fermented dough? Obviously the hydration of the starter and the temperature of the room that the bulk fermentation is taking place are factors in how long to bulk ferment...but I'm looking for visual identifiers.After reading 'Crust' and seeing how R...	A couple of clues I think the best you can do is find your own limits by trial and error. That said, here's a couple of clues.I routinely retard (bulk ferment) lean doughs made with either sourdough or commercial instant yeast for 15 to 21 hours at 54°F. with no apparent negative effects.Furthermore, each time I bake s...
Using Mother Dough Hi all,I have only been making bread for a month so I am very new at all this but hubby bought me two bread baking books for Christmas (one of which didn’t arrive until 10 days ago) and both books recommend keeping a little of the dough back for use in the next loaf as a starter or mother dough. I ...	Beautiful Bread! I wouldn't change a thing - it seems to be working well for you and I'm not sure what problem needs to be solved. That is a really good looking loaf, it tastes good and you like it. Bravo! Linda
The power of autolyse Over the past year I've had my fair share of sourdough breads ripping apart on the sides while baking. Ever since I've introduced the autolyse method at the mixing stage, these problems have disappeared. Even a minor autolyse of just 20 minutes makes a huge difference. To me, the autolyse method h...	ripping like this? No, autolyse never helped me. Only avoiding a massive amount of folds (as I'm used to do) helped me to prevent rips like that.
1, 2, 3, success! FINALLY Hello All,I am happy to say that I have produced 2 successful loaves now! I am sorry to say-- No thanks to the book I bought to get me going. I bought a book and decided I would bake one recipe till I got really good at it and then move on to others, I am now thinking that the recipe was flaw...	Very nice! Congrats! Very nice! Congrats!
Drying a starter???? I once saw a comment saying a person dried their starter so they could use is for later. Kind of a neat idea has anyone on here tried it??? Sounds weird to me because I've only ever grown up with the "normal" way of doing a sourdough starter but I think it would be cool to try. Is there a website o...	Cool sounds good I'll have to Cool sounds good I'll have to try it =D Thanks =D
Sick starter on the mend, & thanks TFL 1. Hello! Never posted here before, but I've been an avid reader of TFL (and Twitter follower) for a few weeks now, and the community's insights have been an invaluable help in getting started in sourdough baking. So thank you all.2. I wanted to post about my starter, which I star...	Once you get your starter Once you get your starter going, if you are not using it every day, you should keep it in your refrigerator. That will prevent it from going down the same path you experiences before.
Bread Scoring too wide after baking? Still a newbie with this baking but really enjoying the journey. I used a King Arthur Sourdough recipe for a pretty basic sourdough loaf....a bit of instant yeast and 8 oz of my starter. Everything seems to work fine however when I score the loaf after the second proofing the end ...	If i want crust then I use some kind of Dutch oven or Sylvia's steaming pans. The steam will put a crusty well browned crust on bread like nothing else along with baking at 450 F until 205 F on the inside.Happy baking
Used the Sourdough Waste - Wow Having a large amount of saved discarded sourdough starter in my fridge I decided to throw together a loaf to save throwing the resedue out. First off, let me say that the waste disgards are from a 3 week old starter that I'm still nurturing with daily feeds. From the starter itself, I ha...	That is a pretty nice loaf made from what would have been thrown away. As your starter gets more frisky the bread will get better.Nice baking.
First Sourdough Success and the danger of overproofing Well, after five total failures of the last couple of months I finally produced an edible sourdough loaf! Huzzah!This was ready just-in-time for dinner so I cut into it after only 15min out of the oven, hence the rough looking crumb but it was very tasty and I am p...	Lovely! Don't ya just love it when it all goes well. Good Job... failure is such a good learning tool. Congratulations!Diane
Sourdough was quite doughy Hi Guys, I'm new on this blog, infact fairly new at baking bread. The past three weeks have all been about bread. Have tried my hands at baguettes, ciabatta, sandwich bread white and whole wheat. All with varying results. Some were great, others not so much. My biggest challenge, and rightly ...	You did get pretty good You did get pretty good browning, which means fermentation was nearly successful. I'm wondering if your starter may be slightly too young. Many starters take at least 10 days at room temp with regular feedings to reach high degrees of activity. Some regular feedings at room temp would be useful,...
Questions about Mini´s favourite rye At first I have to thank Mini for her fabulous recipe. It is easy and always gives good results. I have done it several times and several thought came into my mind. - how do you dock the loaf to let the air escape? I tried a wooden toothpick but as the dough is very sticky I coul...	First of all, Happy Ground Hog's Day! I suppose I'm the one to answer most of your questions if I can. If anyone wants to contribute, go right ahead! I will repeat the Q's to answer to the best of my ability. I do want to say that it's great that you've played around with the recipe. - how do you dock the loaf to l...
Are stiffer starters less affected by temperature changes? I read somewhere (likely here, but I can't find the post) that stiffer (lower hydration) starters are less affected by temperature changes than higher hydration starters.Is there any validity to this claim?More generally, what are the pros/cons of keeping a sti...	Hi,I can't explain the Hi,I can't explain the biochemistry behind this, but I solved my weakening starter by copying Jeffrey Hamelman's personal regimen. I now keep a stiff rye starter, it's fed once a day (before breakfast) and lives on the kitchen bench. I made a post about it here: Solved my starter issue \| The Fres...
Young Culture vs Mature Culture - Question Hello, I'm a little unsure of how each of these differ exactly. Please let me know if this is correct.I use 100% hydration, 45%ww-45%unbleached white-10% whole rye, Temp 70-72 degrees FAlso: Can anyone tell me the difference between a Levain and a Culture??Young:Used at the e...	no. it is much more no. it is much more complicated than that! acetic acid production is more closely tied to fermentation quotient, and determined by starter conditions, redox potential, substrate type, temperature and fermentative conditions.
Have I created a starter - It smells okay Hello all. I have a problem in that I don't know if I have created a sourdough starter or something that will kill me. But first I will say this is my second attempt. In the case of my first I discarded the whole thing as it had bad smells. I've since learnt that this is normal...	If it doesn't smell bad or it If it doesn't smell bad or it doesn't have visible mold on it, it certainly won't kill you. Sounds like you have build a healthy starter. Try using it to leaven some breads now. Be sure that before doing so, you leave your starter at room temp for at least 2 days, with regular feedings, to...
Diagnosing (not only) sourdough bread Please, is there a good source (book/web) that would help better diagnose various bread defects? One with illustrative photos and more detailed explanation of what is a probable cause.I often get pictures from my friends asking what thy did wrong. Sometimes it's clear, sometimes no...	Hi Zdenka, Do a search on Hi Zdenka,Do a search on this site for "flying crust" and your answer will be at hand. As for a comprehensive place to look for trouble shooting answers, this site is the best that I am aware of.Happy New Year,Jeff
Question regarding sourdough starters I began a starter on 1/12/13. Used 2 T pineapple juice and 2 T whole wheat flour. Followed the steps provided on this site.I've been feeding it daily but for the last two days began a 2 day feeding schedule. Around day 3 or 4, the starter began to grow, close to double in size. Tha...	The key to understanding your feeding is volume 1/2 c AP weighs approximately 63g and 1/2 c water weighs 120g Which means there is more water than flour in the mixture and it is on the thin side. I'm sure that if it were thicker (or if you add twice as much flour) it would indeed start to rise. As it stands at 190...
Sourdough Whole Wheat Pancakes Years ago a friend of mine gave me this simple recipe for sourdough pancakes. They can be made with AP flour or whole wheat flour, your choice. I like mine with whole wheat flour and while cooking them, I like to drop some blueberries into the pancakes as they cook on the griddle.Sourdo...	SD Pancakes Hi Linda,Looks like one I will try. I do pan cakes 1-2 times a week just for the two of us. Have you ever made up a stater that originated in Alaska. I was gifted with a apckage dry 6-7 months ago. It has a recipe for bread that my firnds and I just cannot wait till it is made again. If your intersted ...
Pizza dough weight I made the Norwich SD recipe last week, my first time. I made half a recipe. It turned out great. Today I am in the process of making a whole batch. I wanted to use some of it for pizza dough. How much dough, in wieght should I have for a 14 inch pizza? I will be nkeeping the dough in the fridg...	Dough for 14" pie Depending on how thick you like your crust, start around 450-460 grams of a fully mixed dough.There have been recent posts that detail how sourdough loaves have lived through extended periods of retarded proofing. Some of the no-knead recipes using instant dry yeast suggest that their dough can last ...
What Makes Best Starter Containers? I am currently in the middle of my first two sourdough starters ever. I have to say they both seem to be developing nicely but as I continue to divide and feed I really feel I could have used better containers. One is a medium size mixing bowl and the other is a large wide 4 cup me...	I use something like this http://www.amazon.com/Bormioli-Rocco-Fido-Canning-Italian/dp/B003APAXOK/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1358009601&sr=8-6&keywords=italian+glass+jar
Feeding Starter 1:1:1 or 1:2:2 I'm starting to learn more about my newish sourdough starter, which by all accounts is healthy and behaving well. The question here is more to do with ratios where I'm wondering if the following would amount to the same degree of feeding.Let it be presumed that I feed my starter at 1:1:1 ...	Feeding Starters are not really so delicate as you might think. I would say feed the way it best suits your schedule.I keep mine in the refrigerator along with some dried starter, just in ase of a disaster. When I want to make bread I bring out the starter, feed it in the ratio of 1:1:1 by weight and let it stand at ...
I killed my starters with heat. Any way to save them/the bread I was in the midst of making? Last night I sadly managed to kill both of my starters. These are the first starters I have been succcessful in making by myself, they took months to establish, and represent the wastage of a massive quantity of flour, time and...	If a 100% rye dough stood overnight, it is starter now I've found that 100% rye dough after 8 hours of being mixed up, will not rise, not even with added yeast. The delicate protein matrix no longer can hold gas. It may be wise to treat the rye dough as a starter and add fresh flour or gluten developed wheat dough to...
Does changing the hydration level "upset" the WW starter? Hello all,I finally got a scale! So I started measuring my feedings instead of just eyeballing it, and the starters have gone all wonky, one smells very acidic, like vinegar, burns my nose, the other is musky unpleasant smelling.After receiving the scale I start...	Water, as an ingredient, is Water, as an ingredient, is fundamental to activating the fermentative process. It also provides the dispersal mechanism for sourdough microflora; the most accurate means of controlling dough temperature; and, lastly, for determining fermentation quotient. Those are really the most importa...
Dough wetter when using overnight levain? I've started experimenting with using cold water when building my levain to slowdown the process so I can leave it overnight and use it to make my dough the next morning. However, the resulting dough always feels wetter and looser despite the same hydration level. Anyone has th...	The longer a levain or The longer a levain or starter ferments, the more acidic it gets. The acids will eventually affect the strength of the dough making it more extensible.How much levain are you using? The higher the percentage of levian, the higher the acid.
Reliable starter sellers In addition to [trying to] make my own starter, I wanted to get a couple that were already started. I ordered one from Breadtopia, sent out for the Oregon Trail Society sample, but I wanted to see if I could get some additional recommendations for where to get cultures from. Thanks!	Carl's Friends (donations accepted) http://carlsfriends.net/
Flour recommendations So I've got two starters going with KAF's White Whole Wheat flour, I want to make some additional starters using different flours, like whole grains etc. Any recommendations? Thanks!	You can build to what ever you want or need - for what ever bread you are making and only keep one starter. I keep a 60-65% hydration rye starter as the only one in the fridge besides a yeast water starter. If I want to bake a rye bread, I feed a seed from the starter whole rye and might stick in some grated onion in...
166% Hydration Starter I activated a dry starter from Friends of Carl on Jan 6. It is doing nicely and easily more than doubles in 3 hours, and I am learning to bake sourdough bread with it. I have made English Muffin Sourdough, First Loaf, Basic White, and Black Canyon Sourdough. There is so much for me to learn, a...	It is probably too thin to double. I'm guessing co2 that normally gets trapped in the 100% making it double is just passing through the much thinner 166% and going through to the surface as bubbles and popping. Very normal.
First WWW starter attempt Hi all! I'm new to the forum after lurking for a few weeks. Yesterday I made my first sourdough starter using KAF's white whole wheat flour (4 oz flour & 4 oz water). Today when I went to do the first feeding it had developed these green spots. The KAF chat person said it seemed odd that the s...	Interesting Just to be clear this mix sat for just 24 hours and developed those spots? What are you using for water, tap,bottled, spring?I'm not sure I would have been so fast to chuck it out. I would have continued the process and see if the spots returned. When you start over see if it happens again.Faith
Doing entire SD proof in fridge Hi folks.Where I live (Perth, Western Australia), it's damned hot right now. When it's 34C+ in the kitchen at night, I'm finding bulk proofing of SD problematic. Last time it was this ambient temp, I reduced the autolyse to 15 mins, and the bulk proof to 1.5 hours - but the latter was st...	Hey Ross, We have been in the Hey Ross,We have been in the 30's consistently here ... plus humidity! Nothing like the scorching weather elsewhere in the country .... but still a challenge.Do you have a thermometer for checking your dough temperature yet? It's an absolute must in weather like this ... I take great care ...
Dad's Infant Sourdough Dilemma So I've given birth to my first baby. The sourdough starter and named him William and as a male, I'm doing a fine job (to date) of feeding his hungry appetite of white bread flour and water at 1:1:1 and watching him belch and wriggle around. Oh so much fun. Now I want to be selfish and e...	The only way to know a true The only way to know a true character of you starter is to bake bread with it... pure and simple... no steroids.
San Francisco Sourdough Again I have been working on perfecting my technique in recreating David Snyder's formula for SF Sourdough he has posted on this site. I love the taste of San Francisco sourdough bread and this formula is very much like the bread I know and love. Problems I've had in the past included not tight...	Not bad at all. A hot DO and 85 F final proof might have done better. Some people don't see much difference in Hot vs Cold DO's but others do. The high final proof at 85 F probably has more to do with producing 3 times more LABs than yeast to increase the sour but it has to effect the large holes in crumb too I would...
Alaskan Sour Dough These just came out of the Oven. Baked on a Pizza Stone at 450- 28 minutes. Recipe is supposedly a old Alaskan recipe. I have done it one time before and the crust and crumb could not have ?? been any better. The sponge sat out side in a cool shed overnight about 12 hrs. It got below freezing out si...	very nice looking very nice looking loaves.what recipe did you use?i made an AAlaskan loaf once before and it had a sour dough starter and condensed milk.
Is This Right...Trying to make 166% hydration starter Today I did an oopsie and used 100% starter in a recipe calling for 166%. I don't want to repeat that and I have been reading like crazy and I think I am grasping the % part..... maybe. My starter is at 100% with each feeding consisting of half it's weight in flo...	If your starter is 200 g at 100% hydration you have 100g each of flour and water If ypu feed it 100 g of flour adn 166 g or water you have a total of 200 g of flour and 266 g of water 266/200 = 133% not the 166% you are looking to achieve. Feed more water and less flour to get to 166%.How ever much flkour you add you...
clueless of next levain step I am about to make my first batch of vermont sourdough. i am struggling a bit with the concept of perpetuating the levain. i used all but 2 tablespoons as instructed...but now i am stuck. How much do i feed this leftover levain? do i keep it in the fridge or in a warm place? do i feed ...	I assume you don't have a scale to feed by weight since you write in tablespoon measures, so try this: discard all but one Tablespoon. Feed two Tablespoons of water and one Tablespoon of flour. Repeat every 12 hours. I believe it is more accurate to feed by weighing the ingredients, and I believe that a 100% hydrat...
Starterless Sour Bread — Completely Revised My starterless sour bread formula has been completely revised. It now uses a formula developed by the USDA Eastern Regional Research Center in Wyndmoor, PA. It was developed several years after the landmark Kline & Sugihara study at the Western Regional Research Center in Cal...	Please write "Imitation Please write "Imitation Sourdough" when that's what you mean. This is not snark, but an earnest request.
1, 2, 3 Sourdough Question Happy 2013.1, 2, 3 Sourdough is popular here among TFL members so I thought that someone here would know the answer to my question. Background I’ve been making a variation of this bread for a while. Once I did not have enough starter for the amount of dough that I wanted, I had half of what ...	differences... Hi Dwayne,One dough is 100g smaller than the other for the obvious reasons with the same amount of salt, so the smaller loaf will be slightly saltier too because there is 50g less flour. (assuming a 100% hydration starter)Watch out when comparing loaf flavour that your tastebuds don't confuse salt and so...
Pale Crust on Sourdough I made these tonight. They are my second try at sourdough. 10 oz firm starter15oz King Arthur Bread Flour5oz King Arthur Whole Grain12-13 ish oz water. mixed by hand, Kneaded for 12ish min, bulk ferment for 4 hours, bench proofed for 2 hours. Started in oven at 550 after a few spritzes a wate...	Salt and/or steam Welcome to TFL, CrannyThe recipe you list doesn't include any salt. Not only does salt provide flavor, it has an effect on the color of the crust since it slows down the rate of sugar consumption by the yeast. No salt and the yeast will quickly consume the sugar, resulting in a pale and dull crust. ...
Mature Culture, and when to build the Levain, as well as other questions I know to use a culture that rises and falls predictably after feedings.. I understand that much, however. When a recipe calls for the use of a "Mature Culture" to build your levain does it mean...A) Use the culture at the deflated unfead state t...	try this use it at stage B) - peak development100% is easy re hydration, just checking to make sure you are doing it by weight, not volumepeak is more like 5-8 hours depending on mix of flour. 100% rye will be on the shorter end (mine peaks at 5 hours), followed by WW, and slowest white flour. Could go up to 8 or mor...
I think I messed up :( Well my english muffin bread turned out very well so this morning I wanted to try a basic white sourdough bread. Following the suggestions in my last post (Thank You Again to all who helped me) http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/31693/help-activating-dry-starter#comment-241166 I tried the "First L...	100% starter I like the recipe for 100% starter (Basic White) on northwestsourdough. I make it both all white, and with some whole wheat.http://www.northwestsourdough.com/discover/?p=1174I bake it it my Romertopf clay baker. Have one in final proof right now.The fact that volume was used in the recipe does not affect t...

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