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First Sourdough Starter - Mike's Way I introduced myself in this post http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/19278/hello-new-baking-some-pictures-posted As mentioned in that post, I am new to baking. After reading most of Mike's www.sourdoughhome.com website, I commenced making my first sourdough starter yesterday! I opted t...	Sounds pretty typical for a baby starter made with flour and water. The activity, and the odor, you are observing are from bacterial action, not from yeast. This bacterial regime will eventually be supplanted by another. Each will die out as the pH continues to drop as a result of their activities, until the pH is l...
First loaf was a brick... help? Hey all! I just tried making my first loaf of sourdough bread, and it was sort of a flop. Can anyone shed some light on what I did wrong? The recipe I used called for a sponge made with 1 cup starter, 1.5 cups water, and 3.5 cups flour (I used unbleached all purpose). I let it sit over...	Hi, I am still new at this, Hi, I am still new at this, so somebody more knowledgeable may come along to help more or correct me if I've said something wrong. However, I'll tell you what I've learned recently that may help you with your problem. When a recipe creates very sticky dough, that's all right. Don't worry...
Inoculation size and stickiness How much starter[leaven/inoculation] is too much given gluten[protein] content in the flour? Im adding 400g of starter[200g flour/200g water] to a mix of 800g of flour and 500g of water. Protein content is 13%. Is that too high inoculation? Seems that all my dough get very slack with lit...	To much water. Enjoy! Too much water. Enjoy!
Why build preferments? I was just wondering that the purpose of building preferments are? I see some formulas here that will have two builds before the final dough is made. If I have enough of an active starter, is it really necessary to make two preferments? Can I just make one preferment and mix it into the final d...	Hi Dvuong Of course you can Hi Dvuong Of course you can and that is the whole point of trying and experimenting with different formlas and methods. Good bread making is often achieved with suttle changes, some bought about by design others by circumstance. i think the whole point here is to try the different methods or...
Baking Bread above 3000 Feet above Sea Level I am having a problem. I live 3000 feet above sea level. I have been baking sourdough bread with a starter that is well over 100 years old. The flavor of my sourdough bread is awesome, but the texture of the actual bread (inside) is too dense and finely textured. I have ...	Altitude I don't think that altitude is your problem; I live at 6100' and have no problem getting getting light loaves with open crumb. My starter is from King Arthur and is about 7 years old, but I don't think that really matters. If you show us your breads, your formula, and some pics, maybe we can help. Michael
Hamelman's 80% Sourdough Rye with a Rye-Flour Soaker Okay, I think Lepard just has too specific a technique for me and that there is something fundamentally different about my flour, my home, my hands, I don't know, for me to use his recipes for a new grain or new technique. I find Hamelman's recipes more universal, a...	Try 66% first? I had problems with the 80% rye. It would rise too fast and go flat in the oven. I moved to the less risky 66% to get my bearings and that helped a lot. If you do try to 80%, get the temperatures (including your kitchen and oven) just right. Oh, and watch it closely, as in: pull up a chair. It's fast.
First sourdough loaf! I baked up my very first sourdough loaf over the weekend from BBA. Just wanted to post some pictures of my success. I think I may have over-risen my boules so they turned out a bit flatter than I would have liked. I am very excited and can't wait to try another go at it. I live in the San Franci...	Wow! that is so good for Wow! that is so good for first sourdough, dvuong! keep it up! khalid
About to give up on this sourdough lark! I'm at the end of my tether trying to get my starter started. I have tried and failed three times, and I'm probably doing (or not doing) something really obvious. I need some help, so here is how I do it wrong. I have a glass jar with a sealable lid (although I dont seal it in c...	Hi Scruffy, The explosion is Hi Scruffy, The explosion is normal, due to bacterial growth. Just keep feeding it on a daily basis, every 24 hours. After Day 3-5, you may start seeing your starter go completely dormant, thinking it is dead. Do not worry, it isn't dead. Just continue feeding it. Soon enough, you wil...
Adding more whole wheat to Hamelman's Pain au Levain w/ Whole Wheat Has anyone had success with this? I love his PaL but I am want a 50% (at least) sourdough. Does anyone have a formula that would help me work this in? I've had great success with the white and whole wheat PaL, I just want to get a better whole wheat...	An example Mmezeezee, I started to respond to your question Friday, with some suggestions. Instead, Saturday morning I started building an all Whole Wheat levain (500g) to make a couple of 40% Whole Wheat loaves of sourdough (pain au levain). I build the levain with three feedings, over approximately twenty-four hours....
Just saying thanks. Have been cooking for a long time, but somehow baking has always been a weak point. Well thanks to y'all, I've been baking a pretty decent sourdough bread, it really tastes like the old "bollillo" from my native Mexico. pics starter bread At the grill I'm sure this is not going to be ...	Fab-U-Lous Fab-U-Lous I love grilled bread with fire roasted veggies! What a feast for the eye and the pallet!
Starter Hydration and Maintenance Hi all, I was wondering what the difference was between a starter's hydration % and it's maintenance hydration %. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that there's a difference between the two. If you currently have a starter that you are maintaining at 1:1:1, doesn't that m...	You'll laugh me out the You'll laugh me out the building, but when a recipe forces a certain starter hydration on me, say 67%, I'll mix up 100 g of food (flour, usually), 67 g of water in a bowl and let it rest for a bit. I'll mix again and note the general consistency. I'll then feed my starter such that it achieves s...
Sekowa backferment Whilst looking to find where I could buy a baneton basket I came across Sekowa Backfermant. I've dabbled a bit with sourdough so I wonder if anyone has any experience of using the Sekowa and what you thing of it. I also wondered if you can feed it like a sourdough or whether you make up the starter...	Check Dan Lepard's forum http://www.danlepard.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1179&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 Hope this helps.
Poilâne-Style Miche It's been a heck of a bread making weekend. Considering downstair neighboors and the French method don't mix well, I decided to make them some loaves too. 11 one pound boules of sourdough are retarding in the fridge right now, but I was impatient and hungry so I baked one of them today. Didn't tu...	the miche looks great! The loaf looks great. You got very nice spring! I'm curious, what temps/how long, and how much steam? And how is the crust and crumb?
The Last Sourdough bread recipe you’ll ever need / The Bread Code Hi everyone,Here is my 8th rendition of ‘’the Last Sourdough bread recipe you’ll ever need’’ from The Bread Code (Hendrik Kleinwächter) since I started to bake sourdough bread again a month-ish ago.https://blog.the-bread-code.io/recipe/2020/12/22/the-las...	I think yours looks even better than the one in his blog entry. What kind of cheese is that, by the way?
Sourdough Starter Exchange Anyone interested in a sourdough starter exchange?	I would love that Hi, I have a very active starter that I got going from Carl's Friends 1847 Oregon starter (I think that's the name). It does a great job. Betsy
Cold Oven - Clay Pot Hello, Just made a wholemeal spelt sourdough with brown rice and final proofed in clay pot with lid overnight. According to instruction provided with unglazed clay pot - I must place the pot and soaked clay lid into a cold oven to prevent the pot cracking from sudden heat change. Problem is my ...	Soak the lid quickly and put the whole works into the cold oven You will get some warm up rising from the dough also. So I hope the dough is not too close to being completely risen or fully proofed. (danger of overproofing) Put the lower section with the dough into the fridge while the lid is soaking.
Nice article by a TFL regular ... and we also got a nice mention. http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/dining/bs-fo-bread-starter-20100817,0,6594039,full.story Stan Ginsberg www.nybakers.com	Growing yeast experiment My mother said in the old days they would make a yeast starter by simply leaving equal amounts of flour and water in a bowl and cover with a clean cloth. So I tried this and it has bubbled after a few days but it smells like vomit. The whole kitchen smells bad. Does anyone have any input. I...
Whole wheat sourdough bagels The best bagels I've ever had were not from New York or New Jersey, or even Philadelphia. They came from a tiny bagel shop in Winston-Salem, NC. I'm not even sure what it's name was; we just called it, "The Bagel Place." There's no doubt, though, they made the "real thing". Beautifully chew...	Bagles Those look fantastic. And whole wheat. Drooling in my charir here at work.
Starter quantities in recipes. Why is there such a wide range in the quantity of starter for a various flour/water/starter recipes? I have seen recipes that call for a tablespoon of starter and other recipes which call for a cup or even two cups of starter. These are recipes for virtually the same amount of dough; a bo...	Taste and time The amount of starter will influence a great many things, such as overall hydration, enzymatic action, crust production, and, as mentioned in the response title, taste and rise time. The sour taste of your bread comes from the bacteria in your starter, so starting with more (relative to the specific bact...
Discards I had a question about my sourdough discards. I have read on these forums that many people will keep their discards in a jar to make pancakes, waffles, and other recipies that don't require much rise. Do I just keep a jar in the fridge and just keep adding to it? How long do the discards stay good for and d...	Discards. That's what I do, just keep dumping them in. Every now and then I'll take out a tiny bit, feed it accordingly and then make stuff out of it. My most recent adventure was pancakes from the Wild Yeast blog and those were delicious.
Reinhart's Basic Sourdough Bread Hello fellow TFLers, I started my sourdough culture about 10 days ago and it seems to be alive and kicking at the moment. I have been maintaining it at a 1:1:1 (2 oz starter, 2 oz water, 2 oz flour), feeding it 1-2 times a day. I have never made sourdough bread before and would like...	BBA Basic Sourdough I make this recipe often as it's my favorite. From the starter you already have (6 oz.), just take 4 oz and add a cup of flour and enough water to make a dough you can knead. That makes your firm starter that you let ferment for 4 hours before putting in the fridge. The remaining 2 oz. of your or...
Miche / Pain Poilâne I tried baking the Miche / Pain Poilâne from the BBA. It looks like it should, but it seems dense and very sour almost like vinegar. What is the consistency of this bread supposed to be and how sour is it supposed to taste? Also it is really hard to cut into. Is the crust supposed to be that th...	Not impressed with BBA's Poilâne, prefer Leader's I've made it a couple times and got similar results. I wasn't impressed. I prefer Leader's approximation in Local Breads, p. 118, his Pain au levain complet.
Old Starter, Yuk! My SD starter has been resting in the rear corner of my fridge for about 4 - 5 months now. It has a gray liquid on top of it. Do I dump it (hope not), drain it or stir it in before beginning a refreshing cycle?	No problem Pour off the "hooch,"scoop out about half of it (the dark stuff on top is what I would do), then give it a good feeding of equal parts flour and water by weight (4-5 oz. of each). Mix it up and see what happens in 8-12 hours. If it comes back all bubbly and happy, you can continue to build from there. Never ...
Salt Lake City Sourdough Hello all, It has been a while since I posted. I get moved around the country a lot. With all that moving comes transporting my starters, always a pain, but worth it because of the new flavors I get in each place I end up. This is my first batch since moving to Salt Lake City and I want to s...	No critiques from me. Those are nice looking loaves, restever99! Looks like your starter weathered the move in good condition. Your comment about different flavors in different locations is intriguing, especially given the raging debate over a starter's ability to remain "true" to its roots when relocated and fed with...
Sourdough coconut bread recipe Hi everyone. I'm new on this blog. I was wondering if any of you ever experiment with sourdough coconut bread. I've been dreaming about the day i can make a bread like this. I've tried many time but i'm new to bread making and not sure where to start. My daughter and i are gluten intolera...	Where did you get it? Do you have any picture of it? I love coconut, and this coconut bread sounds intriguing. Yippee
Over-proofed, isn't it??? Hello everyone, Here is the bake of the day: Beautifully flat and deliciously over-proofed :-(( The glitch is that the dough temp was 6.6° when I took it out of the fridge after an overnight retard..As I pushed the bulk up to 55-60%, my guess is that it continued to proof slowly but surely in ...	Overproofed in the fridge sounds familiar... I had similar problems when I first tried proofing overnight in the fridge, so this discussion may be of interest: https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/63939/fridge-temperature. Other TFL members offered helpful comments.
San Francisco starter Ok, I do hope this hasn't already been asked, but I expect it might... However, the question is this. If you have a starter, could be from SF, could be from Timbucktu, at what point after refreshment does it no longer have the right to be called, 'SF sourdough' or 'Timbucktu sourdough' starter?...	Airborne yeast My understanding is that what makes a San Fran sourdough so unique is the airborne yeast in the area. You could get a starter from there, but as you feed it, over time, it just turns into a "wherever you live" starter. This may not be so bad. San Fran sourdough is certainly unique, but that doesn't mean ...
Protein level in Flour Hi eveyone, I've just discovered that Sainsburys in the UK produce a Canadian high protein level flour (around 15%) which is much higher than my normal flour (around 11-12%). My latest loaf, using this new to me higher protein flour seems to have much more lift - the crumb (sorry, no photos, it ...	Yes, Yigibaker, it is Yes, Yigibaker, it is relevant. Often. Protein levels are an indication of the presence of Gluten, which is the structure that traps air bubbles in your loaf,, hence the airy texture, and lofty loaf. Khalid
Can a starter be taken over by local mircoorganisms? I had this ridiculous idea of starting a culture during my trip to San Francisco, but soon scrapped that idea after realizing how ridiculous that idea actually was. Anyhow, that got me thinking: If I could actually bring a San Francisco sourdough starter (dried) ba...	WILD YEAST Hello, I have been interested in this topic too. There are some places that sell dried starters - you can buy starters that come from many different locations in the world. Now, that would lead one to believe that the starter would not change or else why would you buy it. I agree with everything Daisy_A s...
Starter bubbles but did not double I have a 5-month old 100% hydration starter that I bake with weekly. I store about 2 ounces in the fridge. I refresh the starter on Friday night (1 part KA AP flour to 1 part water by weight) to bake on Saturday morning. In 8-12 hours, the starter usually doubles, has big frothy bubbl...	Temp is very important to all starters. It will probably act as you expect if given a little more time but if it was mine, I'd refresh again (with warm liquid) and get it into a warmer environment. Mine seems to prefer the high 70's. Meanwhile, I'm soooo jealous of your cool weather! We haven't been below 90 in too ...
Happy starter This is the most recent bake from my firm starter using the formula in Crust and Crumb...I love this book! I am very pleased with the dark color and crust...not so much with the shape and slashing...but overall my best effort to date. I have been nurturing this starter since January and am becoming incr...	Beautiful loaves! Crust & Beautiful loaves! Crust & Crumb got me started. Shaping instructions weren't sufficient, but the rest of the book is great. The Bread Baker's Apprentice improved on the shaping instructions some, but I didn't find the pictures overly helpful. I think you have to SEE someone shape bread, eithe...
Norm's Onion Rolls Lucky First Attempt with Sourdough Starter The first time I saw Norm's Onion Rolls I knew that despite my inexperience I had to try them. I have some sourdough starter, and thought I would start with 1/4 cup of that, add flour and water, let that ferment for 8 hours, (reduced the flour and water in ...	Looks good! Looks good! Eric
Sourdough starter from ABED Hi everyone, I've tried 3 times to follow the sourdough starter from ABED and I've never been able to make it past Phase 2. I've tried two times with water, once using wheat flour and another using only bread flour. I also tried using pineapple juice and bread flour. Only once did it foam ...	You didn't wait long enough! Five days is usually not long enough to see a starter wake up. Ten days is more average, and sometimes even 14. In very warm weather and in a non-air conditioned home, you might have a starter going in a week. Try it again, and be patient!! Definitely use the pineapple juice and whole grain...
Is inoculation cheating? I keep a white, sourdough mother starter. When I need another starter, say rye or wheat or durum, for example, I just make them by inoculating: Wheat starter (1/4 wheat flour, 1/4 water, 1 T white/mother starter, several feedings) Rye starter (1/4 rye flour, 1/3 water, 1 T white/mother starter...	Ye hath a fine path chosen. Mini
Babysitting infant starter Hello everyone, A little background first... I am new to TFL (LOVE this site) and am a newbie to bread baking and sourdough starters. I started my first batch of sourdough per PR's BBA's forumla using water (didn't have pineapple juice on hand) and noticed explosive growth by day 2, then it ...	Welcome to TFL, dvuong! I've just been through the pineapple juice w/rye method for getting a new starter up and running here in South Africa where it is still winter. My house temperatures have been running in the high 50's and low 60's and the starter took off just fine. After the first week, it was doubling or mor...
What on earth happened?! I decided to make Daniel Leader's French Country Boule, in his Local Breads book, and I ended up with something that looks like this: What on earth happened?! The flavour is good, but the texture is horrendous...If it helps at all, this is what I did with the recipe. http://boarderaholic.blo...	Start here I didn't visit your blog, but reading this thread may help you determine if it was an error in the formula. Here's another thread which talks about those large tunnels Do you have a photo of the boule before you cut it? There appears to be a very dark section or two on a very light crust and I wonder if yo...
Cold bulk experiment - any tips and thoughts? Bread Ahead method Hi, I have been baking sourdough for almost a year and am still learning so much! Apologies for the length of this post but I know you guys need detail when you deal with questions!I normally follow a Maurizio best sourdough style approach of young leva...	Levain Alex -"6 hr @ 25°C"? I can't tell from that description how well fermented the levain is when you use it.The way I reconstruct your formula it looks like 18% pre-fermented flour, 67% hydration overall, and ~1.5% saltFor your warm bulked loaf, 4 hrs seems about right if the levain was mature, but 6 hrs at 25°C m...
whole wheat with grains and seeds I just saw Benjamin's pictures of his beautiful seed bread, and once again, I vowed to follow a master like Hamelman instead of winging it. But in my heart of hearts, I know it's not going to happen. At least not very frequently. I swear it's not arrogance - I just want to get to that ...	Just a guess - But it sounds like you might have OVER proofed a little. The 500 degrees is, I am given to understand, a good idea in that case -- give that old dough a bit of extra push.
wild yeast starter I have been having problems trying to get a wild yeast starter going. I have tried this twice now with no success. I am following Peter Reinhart's recipe in the bread bakers apprentice. I am doing everything that he suggests. I start with rye flour and pineapple juice at room temperature for day 1...	try this What I've done is dice two cored organic apples and place them in two cups of water. I put the container on the fridge and when the bubbling peeks, I strain out the apples and then start with organic white flour (100 % hyrdration at first). I then carry on feeding every 24 hours at first, and as the starter...
Reinhart's starter vs. Leader's I have a Leader rye starter I am very happy with, but I want to try some of Reinhart's recipes. Unfortunately, I have not gotten very far with Reinhart's starters, How can I substitute? Reinhart's seem drier.	Change is good Hi Carl, Since you have a working starter, all you need to do is use a portion of your existing culture and change the hydration according to whatever the formula calls for. You can also convert that portion from rye to wheat (if needed) by using AP for a few refreshments. No need to reinvent the wheel -...
A long overdue try at Pain au Levain For a while now I've been wanting to try my hand at making a bread using only a levain for the rise. It's slightly embarassing to admit that for all the years I've been baking professionally and at home I've never made one. I've made breads that include a sour culture at home before...	Good for you! Congrats on taking the step off of commercial yeast to its country cousin. My first impression is that your boule could have proofed longer, both from the perspective of your shot of the loaf and the crumb. That said, it looks really nice and appetizing, and I'll bet it has the subtle flavor of a classic...
Hamelman's liquid levain culture question Hello everyone, I started this culture a few days ago, and while it did well for the first couple of days (when it was mostly whole rye), once I switched to white flour, it stopped being active. I started another one today, but was also wondering. Hamelman's method calls for ...	That would work. But just to That would work. But just to make sure you don't end up with a nonviable starter, at the next feeding: Divide your rye starter in half. Continue feeding half as usual, with rye. For the other half, feed with white flour, or whatever else you might want to convert it to.
substituting one starter type for another I have a question about whether you can easily substiute a biga starter (a starter made by adding a very small amount of yeast to a flour and water mixture) with a liquid sourdough starter. The reason I am asking is that I have been used to making a lot of breads with Hammell...	biga for sourdough Of course, no trouble at all. Just try what you want, if it works do it again, if not try it again.
I have bubbling sourdough starter that doesn't stink! But what do I do next? Thanks so much! It wouldn't allow me to post in the "body" section from mu phone, but I've won that battle. I started my starter three days ago, with mostly stone ground whole wheat, a little bit of rye, and filtered water. I fed it about ever...	Wait...a little longer After only three days your starter is still in infancy. It's not even clear if you've got a healthy colony of yeast and lactobacilli yet. Most starters take 10 days to two weeks to get established to the point of using them for baking. I'd continue to feed it twice a day through week one, and t...
sourdough bagels I just made the sourdough bagels posted on this site under the title "sourdough bagels revisited". They rock. I kept the hydration a little higher than the recipe stated (about 50g higher). I like the size of a 3oz piece of dough for the family, but if I make them for sale, I will double the size to...	6 oz bagel? Hi iRenee - Glad to hear your sourdough bagels turned out so well. Just my opinion, but a 6 oz bagel's going to be the size of spare tire. I think 3 oz is closer to what you want. Anyhow, just my 2-cents worth. Larry
Slow Baking Hello, Normally I make a Wholemeal Spelt Sourdough loaf with cooked brown rice and quinoa. I usually bake between 180 - 160 degrees C for 1 to 1.5 hours Obviously for a nice thick crust to go with this hearty bread I should bake at a lower temperature and longer - just wondering what is a reasonable start...	I think it is better to start out hot and then drop the temp as time goes on. The temp and time that you already have sounds fine. Start at the high end, even 200°C and then drop the temp after the first twenty minutes to 150°C and let it finnish off at that temp.
Soft and light sourdough? Hi all, Got a question or two but first let me explain. I've gotten older in life and at 62, I've lost most all my teeth. I once enjoyed San Fransisco's hard crusts and chewy crumb sourdough bread but now I can't eat it. I do miss it so. Questions are, can a crust be made like the store bought...	Soft sourdough If you wrap regular sourdough bread in plastic wrap the crust will soften and remain soft if you keep it wrapped. That's a buzz kill for those of us who love hard crusts, but just the ticket for you given your circumstances. Larry
rye starter smells bad I've made wheat starter before, but now I'm trying to make rye starter for the first time. I ground the rye berries myself, and after about the third day of casting off half the starter, adding equal parts water and rye flour, it developed a VERY bad smell - not at all like the sweet/yeasty smell...	Take this with a grain of Take this with a grain of salt, but I'd offer that if you keep feeding and discarding and maintaining the ambient conditions for the culture you want, it will eventually settle out of itself. I commented on another thread on this - making "mother" cheese culture from yogurt to begin a traditi...
123 Sourdough I am fairly new to this site but have been making bread for about 30 years. Man, that makes me sound old. I just tried the 123 sourdough from Flo Makanai. It was fantastic! I wasn't sure about the instructions so I kneaded until it passed the window pane test and then did 3 or 4 stretch and folds at 30 mi...	midwest baker you have very lovely loaves of breads. Saintdennis
Day 10 Starter is is bubbling...now what? Hello, It looks like there are a few of us on this post that are wondering how to proceed with their new starters! Mine is a second attempt - the ABCD didn't work, so I switched over to Debra Wink's method of starting out with 2 TB organic rye + 2 TB pineapple juice. When I ...	It's coming up on 12 hours so It's coming up on 12 hours so I'm going to feed my starter the same ration: discard and keep 2 oz starter, mix with 1 oz water and 1 oz AP flour. Since my morning's posting, I've googled some more and cleaned most of my house. I've found an old posting here on converting 100% to 125% star...
How is everyone's ABED starter? Hi Everyone- Recently there have been a bunch of posts from people making starters from Artisan Bread Every Day. How is it going? You all inspired me to finally do this and create my very first starter (I am also using ABED). So far so good. This morning I started Phase 3. It seems to be...	My starter is great! Hi Beth I started 3 weeks ago. The phases were really quick, sometimes less than 24 hours. I guess that was because my flat was warm. After a week it was doubling in 6-8 hours, tasted very sour and with a wonderful smell. I fed it when it doubled.I fed it one week with wholewheat flour and the seco...
Next steps... Hi Everyone- Here's one more post about sourdough starters from an inexperienced starter maker! I hope some of the experts on here won't mind responding to a new post. I promise, I have done my research and homework- I just have a few of my own questions now! Six days ago I set out to create my very first...	Discards. What you can do with your starter is to take any "discards" and use them to make other stuff, that way, you're not actually throwing anything away. I store my discards in a large jar, and when the desires for pancakes or other arise, I have some on hand to make some. As for feeding guidelines, I disregard ...
question about differing yeast strains i have a question about the different yeasts that we use for our cultures, namely, are they really so different?i have read that over time, the dominant yeast in a culture can change from one strain to another. i always create my culture simply by using KA flour (I never buy a cul...	See Dan Leader's "Local Breads" Starting on p 44 there is an extensive discussion on how cultures change based on the local environment in your kitchen, the natural yeast that is on the grain that the flour is milled from, the weather, etc. He confirms with lab tests that after a matter of days a starter from half way ...
Help with San francisco Sourdough from Reinhart ABED First I want to say hello. I posted once in the book section but have been reading, learning and bookmarking recipes for some time now and have learned a lot and have seen some amazing photos. This is an awesome site. My question. I have been keeping a starter I boug...	You Can Bake It The overnight refrigeration helps add flavor to the loaf and that's a good thing. However, if your bread is proofing well today and you won't have the opportunity to bake tomorrow, go ahead and bake. The loaf won't be a disaster and as long as you've done to preparation well, it should be a very good lo...
Help - I'm confused re differing ratios of flour and water for building starter...does anyone have the definitive starter recipe Hello, I tossed out my first starter attempt (as per Reinhart's recent book, Everyday Artisanal Breads). I used whole wheat flour with pineapple. My starter smelled good - progressing from ...	Definitive? Debra Wink knows what she is talking about. While not "definitive" her starter recipe is thoroughly researched. Search these pages for blogs she has written on sourdough. I would attribute more credibility to her than books such as "The Joy of Cooking." Her pineapple juice method was written to provide ...
No Knead Sourdough Finally found it! A way to incorporate good sourdough flavor with the ease of no-knead! :-) Unfortunately, we ate up a lot of this loaf before discovering that the photo was too big to upload- maybe I'll have it figured out by the next loaf. It has good crumb, a lot of natural splitting on top, and g...	wow That's a whole lotta yeast.
Looking for Sour How do I treat my starter to significantly increase its sourness? I have a good sturdy starter and I have baked (and read this blog) enough to deal with slack doughs and retardation in the refrigerator, but none of my approaches so far have produced a real "tang". Should I do something with the starter...	Basically, the sour is not Basically, the sour is not necessarily in the starter. It is more the procedure used in making the dough(fermentation times, temps, etc) that can make any bread sour, even if the starter isn't. My starter is very sweet, but i have made some awfully sour bread breads with it. Do a search for "...
question about the yeast strain that i likely have Hello, I started my culture with KA bread flour. it is a nice strain, makes great bread, nice flavor, nice activity. i really like it and have no complaints. does anyone have any idea which strain i likely have. i am assuming that there are few common ones... tia!	Sourdough Strains Here's some light reading on various strains of sourdough cultures. http://www.net-lanna.info/food/Articles/11022896.pdf
First loaf posted in TFL...feeling a bit shy... I have only been baking for a few weeks and find it very frustrating to not be able to read my bread and understand what went wrong or what could/should be improved.In this loaf, it seems like the oven spring could have been way better and the crumb is very uneven: very l...	It all looks good! To even It all looks good! To even out the crumb experiment with different levels of degassing the dough right before proofing. You'll find the crumb you want/like in there somewhere. Enjoy!
Whole Wheat Sourdough Tearing I really don't know why, but my dough is tearing. When I shape my loaves and proof them, they tear. It's so strange! My recipe is the basic sourdough from the Peter's BBA. I decided to exchange some of the 5oz. white flour for 5oz. of whole wheat flour. I also added a tablespoon of olive o...	Sound like you have too much Sound like you have too much enzymatic activity going in your whole wheat, hence the breakdown. It may also be that your wholewheat is fine, but you may have had to add more water, as bran in wholewheat tend to absorb more water. If the latter is the cause, i suggest you prepare a wholewhea...
Pain Aux Pommes I'm in the middle of reading The Village Baker and I came across his recipe for Pain Aux Pommes. His recipe is ridiculously complicated, at least for the home baker, with a special starter make from apple cider and all. I wasn't interested in going to that length, but the idea of an apple sourdough br...	Foppish Baker Floyd I have tried this recipe - http://foppish-baker.blogspot.com/2006/05/pain-aux-pommes.html - a number of times, and every time the bread turned out delicious!! I've also tried a variation with pears instead of apples and omitting apples from the final dough - perfect result, every time HP
KA Sourdough Starter Hi, Anyone live in the Athens, GA or Nicholson, GA? If so, I inadvertenly ordered the Fresh Sourdough Starte from King Arthur which I already paid for. This was a mistake since I already have one from them and it's been alive now for a while, so I don't need two. I called KA and they credited ...	fresh sourdough starter donation do you have a community kitchen in your area? you could donate the starter to them along with 1-2 bags of flour. they could keep it alive & make bread. claudia
Dry weight / Liquid weight in a recipe I have a question. I have been making SD starter for some time and it was always ???? ok. My last 4-5 attemts have gone in the garbage. The basic formula I have is 1/4 cup of water 3/8 cup of flour. Thats what I have used in the past in cup measurement only. Now if the recipe ca...	Flour weight - The number I have in my mind for flour weight is 5.5oz per cup. This is, obviously, very rough. Anyways, with 1/4 cup water and 3/8 cup flour makes sense as 2 ounces each, with a 5.5 ounce cup of flour. Many of the starter recipes I've run across seem to call for refreshing with equal weights water and f...
Sourdough adventures: Holes! Finally! Hi everyone, A recent discussion how to acheive irregular large holes in bread inspired me to show you my recent efforts - finally, I feel like I'm getting there. It's taken around 6 months of trying, but here goes ... let me know what you think! Have a good day! C	Your bread has "great Your bread has "great crumb":) Looks good to eat, too (I'm hungry right now), How does it taste?! I'm a complete newby - just starting out with my starter - any tips you'd like to share that you've learned? I've just learned that too vigourous degassing of the dough could contribute to a tighter c...
boule recipes? does anyone have a great sourdough recipe that would work awesome for a boule? if u do awesome!!! can u do it in cups tho?(no scale :() and include oven temp and timing or just put a link to one idc	Check here A boule is a shape, so any sourdough recipe will work. Since you want volume measurements, check out Mike Avery's site, which lists many recipes by volume. Or use the TFL search bar.
Building a Starter I'm not exactly a beginner at bread making. I learned at the foot of my Grandmother when I was about 10 (I'm 75 now) but things seem to have changed, and I'm trying to get a new starter going, using the instructions I find, here (I love this site, by the way) Can someone please explain to me, in plai...	In farming terms, for the same reason you clean the manure out of the stalls and put fresh hay in the manger. I'm sorry if that grosses you out but I can't think of a more direct analogy. The other reason is that you don't want to keep doubling the amount of starter every time you feed it. In just a few days you'd ha...
Thought my starter was doomed.. it is a white starter and was just sort of blah, but instead of tossing it I refreshed it with rye and water.......it took off like a rocket. Now it's the most active, with the best aroma that I've made so far...even the ones I started with rye. If not for TFL, I would have given up on...	I'm happy for you! I've been there, myself, a few times, in the two years or so that I've been maintaining whole wheat and rye starters. They've always come back [so he says, as he touches wood...] with a little TLC and a lot of good advice from TFL Learning how bacteria and microscopic fungi 'feel' takes time, I gue...
Starting Over So after a few weeks neglect in the fridge, I attempted to bring my starter back to life. It had a good bit of hooch, and smelled pretty intense. It was slow to rise, but eventually did the job. But the aroma/flavor was crazy; this intensly sour, nail-polish like character dominated. And the consistency...	Curious What was your feeding schedule like?
long-frozen starter Last night I took a loaf of my whole grain sourdough to a get-together. There a friend told me that his mother still has a piece of his deceased grandmother's sourdough in the freezer, and can't bear to discard it. He's possibly interested inreviving it. He asked me for advice about how to do so....	Try it Not sure how many folks here have tried to revise a sourdough culture that's been in the freezer for ten years, but all you can do is try. Am guessing that unless it was wrapped really, really well, you might have some freezer burn - I think vacuum packing machines are a recent introduction to the mass market. ...
Oven rise problem Hi guys! i really hope someone help me find the issue here, so I bake my sourdough according to the following:80% bread flour 20% whole wheat75% water20% levain2% salti almost never get an oven rise even though the taste is good. I’ll attach a picture of how my bread usually look like (not much oven r...	Understandable frustration! Understandable frustration! Sounds like the one time when you fermented for much longer it worked better? Maybe you always should to that?But regardless, seeing the crumb would be really helpful to diagnose the problem, much more useful than the outside. And also, what's your process, i.e. h...
Crazy Sourdough Starters hello everyone, I am new here beginning today.. I've been pondering on extremely different sourdough starters to play with, but wanted to check with all you talented people here, first. I read a book not too long ago, Kitchen Confidential by Anthony Bourdaine, and there's a chapter in his book ...	Thank you for your replies.. Thank you for your replies.. DaisyA, thank you for giving me those links and for the advice! I have tried conventional sourdough, I used Peter Reinhardts formula in Bread Baker's Apprentice. I've tried a few different breads with them, ciabatta style with black pepper and oregano, plain sou...
best place to put a sourdough starter to get the best flavor and wildyeast? im new here s if u there is already a post here im srry But im wondering if there is a place in the house where i would collect the most wildyeast	Yes there is, Guyandhisbread It's inside your flour sack. The yeast and bacteria that you want to cultivate already rode in on the kernels of wheat and rye before they were ground into flour. Far be it from me to say that one can't inoculate a culture with airborne spores, but there a lot more of the little buggers a...
Hazelnut and Fig Sourdough (a.k.a. Jeffrey Hamelman's Prune and Hazelnut) Hi All, First of all, thanks to all the advices for my last week's bake (Semolina Sourdough), where I had problems with the bursting loaves, which, as suggested, was resulted from the underproofing. I have tried creating warmer proofing environme...	Those are great looking Those are great looking loaves! I love your pics! Care to share the recipe? My father in-law loves dried figs! Congrats! Happy baking!
Breaking through $100 per loaf! Breaking through $100 per loaf! For months I have tried a variety of techniques, methods, and recipes, etc. to develop a starter and a sourdough loaf to meet my picky requirements of what a good loaf of sourdough should look like a give me the tanginess, chew, and flavor I sought. In the...	100 g Starter (100% Hydration)200 g Water 35 g Whole-Wheat Flour 15 g Rye Flour Hydration: 71.4%250 g Bread Flour 7 g Salt Salt Mix starter and water, add whole wheat and rye flours, and next add the bread flour, approximately 50 grams at a time. After all flours are mixed and hydrated, let rest 20 minutes. Add ...
Complimentary foods for rye sourdough - ideas please. Hi all. I have conjured up a couple of rye sourdough loaves this morning, after 14 hours proving. The recipe was from Richard Bertinet, if anyone in the UK knows him. Anyway, the bread is WONDERFULLY vinegary! I'm not sure it's meant to be that way, as I really ha...	Rye will fill them up if portions are too large. olives? only as a tiny decoration... Go bite size with small open faced... Cheeses are good, cheese spreads are good, butter, garlic butter with lots of snipped chives. Thin cut ham or cold meats, with marinated sliced onions. All kinds of sour pickles to decorate as ...
Ageing Sourdough Loaf Hello, Someone told me that for even greater ease of digestion you should age your baked loaf of sourdough bread for 3 days out of the fridge/freezer. Has anyone else heard of this technique or do this with there loaves? Thanks	Urban legend Mini :)
Starter Maintenance and Calculations I've developed a starter that finally produces the desired tanginess for my taste and which also has enough active culture to make a SD Loaf rise. Not wanting to lose this starter has made me take a more active interest in starter maintenance. My Mother Starter is kept in the refrig...	thank you! This explains so much for me...thank you for posting. I would love to see the spreadsheet :)
Contamination with baker's yeast? I've been monkeying around with firm starters, and haven't had a lot of success using a firm starter from start to loaf (I never get enough leavening power). The other day I figured I'd convert some of my sticky "levain" into a more liquid starter. Made up a batter, which started bubbl...	another thing - My kitchen is quite warm, around 82F, so I would expect things to be fairly active. The question is 'is this TOO active to be wild yeast?'
Pineapple juice starter I started my first sourdough starter about a year ago. I didn't want to order a starter from King Arthur I wanted to capture the wild yeast. So, I searched this sight and found the easiest starter possible using ground wheat berries and pineapple juice. It worked great and I now have a beauti...	Skip the sugar Hi Renee, Here's the link to Debra Wink's thread on using pineapple juice when creating a sourdough culture. Sourdough cultures are refreshed with flour and water. No sugar. Hope that reading through that thread helps.
Wild yeast of burden Howdy! I love this website. I have been reading, printing and studying on the starter issue. On July 1 I went on safari for the wild yeast of burden...and i think i got one, however, as it is day 13, my starter seems rather sluggish. I did the grapefruit juice starter starting with and maintaining ...	Change the water:flour ratio When I changed from 1:1 water:flour to 3:5 I noticed an immediate difference in how my starter behaved. Where before it rarely did more than bubble and 'fizz' a bit, it now routinely doubles or triples in size. When I want to use it in recipes that call for a 100% hydration starter it is ea...
Can someone tell me if my starter is OK So I'm new to the sourdough world, I haven't even baked my first loaf yet. I'm just getting my starter going. After a week of starting my starter it was more than doubling in size after about six hours from feeding. I decided to feed it for a week or so more to get it good and...	Sounds completely normal to Sounds completely normal to me, you've got yourself a good starter! What ratio do you feed? If it smells vinegary right after feeding perhaps you should feed with more flour/water.
A universal starter? Hi, I would like to ask about your experience with converting a sourdough starter. At the beginning my second starter was 60% hydration (75% white, 25% whole rye) but as it produced a very liquid dough I followed the advice of some TFL members and converted it to 2 pure starters - medium rye 80% hy...	rye, hands down. it doesn't need refreshments (I refresh it only when it's about to finish) and it seems to last eternally. Moreover it smells good! Only downside: you need some salt in your bigas (1% with respect to flour is enough, but 2% isn't too much). I use it to make bread and cakes of every kind. It never bet...
sourdough buckwheat Hi guys! I've returned to bread baking after a hiatus of a decade or two. In my previous life, my sourdough breads always needed a little boost with commercial yeast. This time, I've decided to look after my pet better, and to bake without commercial yeast. Not that I think commercial yeast is a bad...	Very Nice You must have a good source for bread if you can take such a long vacation from baking. Your photo is very nice! I have never had anything buckwheat except pancakes in the mountains of Virginia with so much suryp that you might as well say I have never tasted buckwheat - after seeing this loaf I have a hank...
Horst Bandel mess I read the posts, I was ready. Even unto adding 10% for my slightly larger Pullman pan. What happened? I wish I knew. The poor thing is proofing at the moment. Long story short, "the dough should be of medium consistency but not wet, and it will be slightly sticky." Ha! "Add high-gluten flou...	Oh dear, and 8 hours have gone by already! What did you decide to do? Once you start adding rye, it just gets sticky. No real way to get around that one. Use wet hands to handle. I'm still trying to figure out what you did. How much rye to bread flour do you end up with? The chops/cracked sound just fine. It doe...
Is summer a bad time to start a starter? I am so excited about my new kitchen and finishing remodeling in our new house, that I want to dive in with a wonderful starter. Yet, they scare the dickens out of me. I have a recipe from Laurel's Bread book and NO WAY could I ever meet the temperature criteria - especially in ...	I'd wait until the AC is available I have no idea what the temps would be in your neck of the woods these days but if they're anything like they've been up here in southern Ontario (heat wave!), you don't want to start this without AC available. But generally your starter would be quite comfy in the 75ºF (23ºC) area. P...
Too much Ovenspring problem solved I recently posted a question on Oven spring and the reply was very good. (http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/18564/too-much-ovenspring). Thanx to everyone who answered and made suggestions, they were all very helpful. So, here is what I did: Firstly, I reduced my hydration from 70% to...	Well done! I'm glad things are looking better. Those are loaves I'd be proud of. The steam obviously helped. I often spritz the oven as well as adding the boiling water to the pan. You have a good grigne going there, as the steam helped the slashes continue to open slowly during the bake. It looks like you might w...
Maintaining starter at high temperature I created a starter about a week ago and it seems to be doing just fine. Over here the temperature in summer can go all the way to 40c (104F). Do I need to take special care of starter? Venkatesh K	Temperature Here are some guidelines for temperature. I suggest you find a means of keeping your starter at or below 80°F. Between bakings you can store the starter in the refrigerator and then refresh it when you are ready to make your dough. Lactobacteria and (Saccharomyces exiguus) yeast are sensitive to the tempe...
Too much ovenspring... I recently started using the stretch & fold technique with good results but since then my bread seems to over rise in the oven. I don't know why this is happening and would appreciate it if someone knows why the dough is doing this. Here are the details of my recipe: Starter hydration: 108% Sta...	hi Breadhouse! Eruptions hi Breadhouse! Eruptions during oven spring such as the one you had is due to: 1 - Either You have underproofed the dough way too much, so the loaf will erupt at scores when you load it in. 2 - Tight Shaping 3 - Uneven scoring depth. Hope this helps Khalid
JH Semolina Bread...with a tumor Hi to all the lovely The Fresh Loaf members.... I'm new to the bread making and sourdough...just started about 3 months ago with both bread and sourdough making. So far, I'm totally obsessed with it. I learned a lot through this web site and found it's very encouraging. I also purchased...	Lovely! more proofing time will help with the over-springing. Give the dough just a little longer to rise before flipping out of the rising baskets (scoring) and popping them into the oven. No problems with scoring that I can see. What temp was the bake? Raising it 15-20°C more might also help add more crust colo...
Separation of upper crust - What did I do wrong? See image below. Did I allow it to proof too long, not enough? previous loaf of same recipe came out fine, though I do recall slightly underproofing the final shaped loaf on that one. This is a basic sourdough using a liquid starter (30%), bread flour, and water (68%), s...	Did you slash? Did you slash the loaf? Slashing goes a long way in preventing seperation. Also, Two stretch and folds does sound a little low. The generic recipe calls for one mixing followed by 3 stretch and folds, I believe.
Culture will mature in 12 hrs @70 degrees...At what temp to have it ready at 18-20 hrs?. Maybe 65?	Guess the Temperature? If you want a guess, mine would be about 61°F. Ford
Broa De Milho Recipe Someone just sent me this recipe for Broa De Milho.That's an incredibly dense crumb; had I made a wheat bread that came out like that, I'd have thought I screwed up. Has anyone here made something like this? Is this how it ought to be?	If 75% of your flour has 0% If 75% of your flour has 0% gluten, I can't see you ever getting a well structured, open crumb! Lance
baking in summer Morning everyone, I'd like to know if making a sourdough starter from scratch with high temps (let's say above 30) involves something special...in three weeks I leave to Italy for a month and do not feel very confident about taking a portion of my dry sourdough around different airports..Any suggestion...	You should be okay. I made my usual buttermilk sourdough bread the other day, temp around 28C, and it rose beautifully. From what I've read, sourdough responds very well to temps over 30C.
Sourdough yeast vs bacteria and temperature In the recent "Very liquid sd" post, there was a lot of information on yeast vs. bacteria. One thing that I found confusing is this: I have heard from other sources (including at a class at SFBI, assuming my notes are correct) that w.r.t temperature, lower temperatures restri...	I think the misunderstanding I think the misunderstanding comes from a faulty assumption that more acid production means more bacterial reproduction, which isn't necessarily the case. The lower temperatures favor a metabolic pathway leading to acetic acid production (in lieu of the alternate end-product---ethanol---whi...
Lazy riser Hello all, Thanks to your wonderful help earlier, I own a wonderful active starter that behaves very well. I feed it, it grows to a sponge, colapses, I discard and refeed and the cycle of life continues unchanged. Wonderful. However, when I go to bake the sourdough loaf, the final product has very little o...	Rising in pan. Does it rise till double in the pan? It seems to me that you're not leaving it for long enough before baking.
Chef/Levain - turns to sticky goo NOTE: Moved this from 'Artisan Baking' since this is, I think, where it should have gone all along. I feel like I have something of a grasp of yeasted breads, so, no worries there. I've been working away at Joe Ortiz's Pain de Campagne recipe, the one that uses the chef and two refre...	Thanks, Daisy! I tried adding Thanks, Daisy! I tried adding a little orange juice to the dough when I made it up last night, and proofed it in my cooler. Things seem to have gone ok, some slump, but not too bad. I chickened out and baked it a little under-raised, I think. I don't know if the OJ helped, but I dare say s...
ground rye natural yeast/bacteria verses air-born... humnnnn next fall we're heading to Paris France. we're going to rent a flat with an oven, and i'll be baking! so i have a question for those in the know. When you mix organic flour (rye) and pure water, the natural yeast and bacterial of the ground flour begin to cre...	Baking in Paris So many bakeries, so much bread and pastry to sample, where will you find the time to bake? It will be a tough job to maintain your priorities there.
Hot weather affecting dough and starter texture? Hi everyone, This is driving me crazy! Everything's been going well with my starter and dough, and now, suddenly my starter has gone much more liquid and my dough is really soft, sticky and floppy. I'm still using the same recipe, same flour, etc, so wondering: is this...	I'm not sure where you live I'm not sure where you live but I'm in Arizona & during the warmer months I cut my proof times about a 1/2 to a 1/3 of the normal time and I keep my starter in the fridge & feed it before using more flour to water. Good Luck, Margie
Rookie requires sourdough basic information As a fresh-faced rookie baker looking to break into the Sourdough League, I am feeling a wee bit overwhelmed by the mountain of info available on that subject. Can anyone suggest one or two of the very best, most reliable, web articles, on TFL or wherever, that will serve t...	Links The first post in this link has info and links for all a beginner need to know on how to start a starter and bake the first loaf. Good luck: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/lessons/sourdough
Managing a Long-Term Starter There's a great thread on starting starters. What about managing them? I bake three to four times a week out of necessity. I have two children under the age of four and a husband in the military. I'm not really able to cultivate three or four different starters, so I'll let you in on a s...	I manage 3 jars of starter, I manage 3 jars of starter, and a big thing of discards which get turned into various edible goods, or I'll just feed it to the dog from time to time. I try to keep them at 50% hydration since I only bake once a month or so. I also leave them in the fridge, since there is no need to feed the...

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