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how much sourdough should i use ? Hello all !! great web site and a great forum .. very very helpfull . so . i got my sourdough up and running , but how much of it should i use ? i usually make 500 g flour and use about 8 g of dry yeast . how much sourdough in grams should i use ? my sourdough is 100% hydration by ...	Sour dough starter use There's a couple of ways you can approach this. You can make a small pre-ferment or levain using about 15-20g of the starter and 40-50g each of flour and water. J Hamelman's book, "Bread" has a more elaborate description of the methodology on this. Then you'd adjust to reach the per centages of ...
Cold proofing... how long is TOO long? Hi all: I am working on a sourdough rye right now. It's on its second build, is proofing in the fridge, and due space and time issues has been there since Saturday afternoon. By the time I bake it this evening, it will have been proofing for nearly 48 hours. Am I still going to...	Long proof I've never let a rye go that long, but some of the popular San Francisco Sourdough recipes include a 48 to 72 hour long cold proof to max out the sourness. So I'd guess it'll be OK but that it'll have a real sour bite to it. Please let us know how it comes out.
Need starter suggestions, please Greetings!My last attempt to make a starter was in JAN 2018. The bread bug has bitten me once again, so I have jumped through the starter hoops once again, but was shocked to see that water has settled out of the mix and is above the flour mix. My original starter mix was just the opp...	The new one looks looks better than the old one. The new starter looks very wet too, more wet than a heavy batter, doesn't have to be, and flour has separated to the bottom. This is normal. That you set aside in a cool room or shade begs the question of where are you located and what temperatures you have. The mehth...
Nail Polish Remover of Sourdough Starter? For some reason my starter smells like nail polish remover instead of sourdough. Any idea what caused it or how to correct it? I hope I can salvage it. I use a 45:50:100 s:w:f ratio to feed it.	Acetone http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/14394/first-starter-attempt-failed-no-idea-why
What happens when you change Hydration rate? Is there any way to generalize what happens to a hearth bread or sourdough when you either increase or decrease the hydration rate? My understanding is that a highly hydrated dough produces a more open crumb. Does that mean those loaves have to be baked longer than a lower ...	Hydration Higher hydration: more open crumb, more difficult to handle and shape Lower hydration: easier to shape, but smaller tighter crumb. "The wetter, the better" is my recommendation. I suggest starting high, say 75%, and scaling back from there rather than working up from low hydration. I did the latter for 2 or...
My first sourdough I have always wanted to make my own sourdough starter and sourdough bread. Well, I finally got my act together a couple of weeks ago and started my started using sourdolady's guidance at: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/233/wild-yeast-sourdough-starter Though I did use apple cider instead of pineap...	Great job, KansasGirlStuck! Your bread turned out awesome! I love all the pictures, too. Sounds like you are already addicted to sourdough. The flavor is so amazing, isn't it?
Optimum Proof Temperature My starter will celebrate his first birthday next month. It seems to be very robust, however two issues have plagued the process since starting. These issues are flavor and proofing, which may be related. Process overview: Flour (KA Bread) 100% Water 65% Starter 20% (have varied the hydration ...	proofing box In the Bread Baker's Apprentice, Reinhart suggests heating a cup of water to boiling in the microwave and then setting your loafs in the closed microwave without removing the water. I've tried this, and it holds steady at a humid 80 degrees for a good long time. You have to watch it, though. I've tried to ...
Norwich Sourdough Attempt This "almost" worked out, but my shaping needs much practice. The bread is wonderful though. Because of life I ended up refrigerating the dough for bulk fermentation for about 14 hours due to a last minute meeting on the road, but these baked up very nice. The crumb is soft and creamy, and ...	Beautiful ! The secret does seem to be in longer term fermentation :)
Start Over? BBA Step 1 of Poilane-Style Miche Hi Everyone!! I began baking sourdough from my own starter about a year and a half ago and have had steady success. I started to make the Poilane-Style Miche from BBA last weekend, but my plans changed and I couldn't finish it. I made the firm starter, let it double, but ...	Are you a gambler? Hi, Hilary. The safe thing to do would be to start over, but it's quite possible that the 5 day old starter will work just fine. It may result in a more sour bread than when it was younger. It may be sluggish compared to a younger starter, so you may need to let the dough ferment longer. If it were ...
How to Use My Starter I've read a lot of posts here (great group of folks) but I'm still confused about what I need to do prior to using my starter. I have been just taking it out of the fridge and using it to make a barm, providing I've fed it in the last three days. My rising has taken much longer than the recipes ca...	Starter Use For myself -- I now keep 100% hydration starter in the refrigerator. (Yes, it used to be 188%hydration. My recipes still call for that.) On the day before I want to bake. I remove 3 ounces and mix with 3 oz. unbleached A. P. flour and 3 oz. chlorine-free water. I let this stand at room temperature for eig...
Pizza dough I've seen numerous postings on this site mentioning that pizza dough is one of the things you can do with your starter discard, but I've never been able to find a recipe for such. Do you just wing it? Does it matter how old the discard is? What ratio discard to flour do you use, or does it matter? Syb	Hmmm. . . Actually, Syb, everything you make out of sourdough is essentially made of "discard". A while back here on TFL, there was a discussion about standardizing terms so everyone who said "fresh starter" or "ripe starter" or "old starter" or "mother" or "discard" or what have you, knew exactly what it meant and ev...
Sourdough taste I made the BBA Italian bread with good results, but it stales so quickly. I've been redoing almost every recipe in SD just to help with keeping fresh, but I thought there was too much sour taste this time. Is there a way to tame down the flavor, while maintaining the benefit of the longer freshness? ...	Starter maintenance has a lot to do with sourness I personally do not like the sour tang to some SD.My starter yields a nice,sweet bread.There has been a lot of discussion on how to make SD bread more sour and it has a lot to do with how the starter is maintained. Maybe if you research that topic to see what you should...
First starter attempt failed; no idea why. A couple of weeks ago I made a first attempt at making a starter. Unfortunately after about a week it developed a very strong acetone smell which, after much googling, I found out meant the starter was underfed. Opinions seem to be divided on whether or not a starter can be re...	Overfeeding It just didn't have enough time to settle in and equilibrate after the yeast started growing. The acetone smell probably would have gone away over the following days with repeated refreshing. Give it at least two weeks after it starts doubling before you reject it, because it takes that long for the populat...
Poolish is terribly inconsistent Hi new forum member here. I could really use some advice. I've just started using a poolish in the past 2 weeks and every time I make one I get a different result. Out of the last six times I've made one, only two actually doubled in size or more. Two never rose at all, and two made a v...	blooming instant yeast HiAre you blooming your yeast before mixing poolish? Blooming instant yeast means combining yeast with 66-70F water and dispersing it thoroughly with a whisk or immersion blender, so it dissolves into individual cells. Only later you add flour and mix it thoroughly, giving it at least 300 turns w...
Proofing problems I'm trying to proof my very first attempt at sourdough. I've shaped it into boules but it keeps deflating and spreading -- it seems like I have enough tension but then it spreads.Everything to this point seems to have been going fine (although my starter took a little longer to double in size). I did ...	Infancy If your sourdough culture is only nine days old, it probably isn't mature or strong enough to raise a loaf of bread. That's really an infant culture. Whose sourdough recipe are you using and how long have you proofed it total?
Feeling deflated Hi everyone I've embarked into the world of sourdough baking and am running into the same problem with every loaf: my bread isn't rising properly during its final proofing. Everything looks healthy and rises well during the first two proofings but once I shape it/put it in the tin, it barely rises. I'd...	Why don't you walk us through Why don't you walk us through your procedures? Straight off the bat, it sounds like its running out of fuel. But theres no way for us to know without knowing what you did.
Rising Problems with Sourdough No-Knead I'm having trouble getting the rise I'd like in a few different no-knead sourdough recipes. In fact, I'm not even sure how long to let the dough proof. Some recipes call for an hour or two, others up to 4 to 6 hours. I'm definitely not seeing my dough double. Any ideas how I ...	Feel the dough Sourdough may need a LOT of time. I learned my lesson this weekend when I tried to hurry a sourdough only loaf. No knead recipe said it needed two hours out of the fridge, but it wasn't fully proofed even after four. I baked it anyway and got a brick that went from the cooling rack to the compost. D...
Sourdough biscuit Continuing the theme of using leftover starter: This morning I added 3 ounces each of flour and water to 3 ounces of starter. This evening I used 3 ounces to make a preferment for tommorow's bread. I retained 2 ounces of starter, fed it and put it in the refrigerator. The rest of the starter I mixe...	It looks delicious Let us It looks delicious Let us also know how the bread pudding turned out:)
Sourdough pancake I tried the instructions from King Arthur's website this evening to make a pancake/crumpet from sourdough starter. It came out pretty good, a little tough but they tasted good. I removed four ounces as I would to feed it. Added 1/2 teaspoon of sugar and 1/4 teaspoon each of salt and baking soda. I...	I find that sourdough I find that sourdough pancakes are not as delicate as those made from pancake mixes (probably with cake flour) or those made from a regular scratch recipe (usually all-purpose flour). I think the gluten tends to get more developed in the starter, and the starter is a large proportion of the batte...
100% Rye As some of you know, I've fallen in love with rye flour because it's so different in chemistry and structure from wheat, and so challenging and rewarding to work with. Lately, I've been playing with different hydrations, fermentations and baking times/temps. This is my latest, a 70% hydration, 3-build sour (wi...	Rye flour is something with Rye flour is something with which I have spent a good deal of time and it has taught me that bread like yours is not that easy to come by. Very nicely done. As a side note I made a Borodinsky Rye yesterday with 85% home milled whole grain rye.Jeff
UAP question Hello everyone. I am relatively new to bread and starters--I just completed my first mini-baguettes the other day and they turned out to be fairly scrumptious. After pouring through the forums, I have found one question that I found pertinent to my current situation. I am currently nurturing a starter th...	Starter flour type Hi French Foodie: 1) I prefer rye or whole wheat for my starter, even if making white bread. the amount of starter made from either is not going to impact your white bread other than give it a slightly unique and very positive undertone that will differentiate it nicely. 2) 100% rye ferments easier ...
Looking for suggestions... Every Christmas Eve, I bake about 50 loaves of bread and deliver to friends and family. I've been doing this for about 25 years. I have a bad back, and I cant seem to take the long day of mixing and baking anymore, so I've moved to naturally fermented breads over the last few years. Genera...	Another suggestion If you have a rye starter, a traditional Jewish Pumpernickel is another option. It has very little rising and proofing time and can be made in 4 hours (small batches), once you have the rye sour built up to the volume you need. Here's a formul
New starter.... Next step?? Aloha everybody! Well the starter is 2 weeks old now and looks pretty stable. I was concerned at one point and was feeding 1:3:3 twice a day for about 3 days and just this morning cut it back to 1:2:2. Don't ask why as I really don't have a clue!! What I would like to ask for at this point i...	Baker's Percentages are used to determine hydration levels It's also called "Baker's Math". For the clearest and most extensive explanation, go here. Susan, of Wild Yeast, posts here on TFL, and she is great at clear, detailed explanations. After workin through all four parts of her explanations, you'll be an expert...
Starter "problem?" I am on the last day of initiating a starter...my first one ever! The problem is: from the very first day I have found separation of the flour and the water. I stir it each day, and it comes together well, and there are definite bubbles. I feed it, and it comes together well, but when I open the ...	Flour and ratios Hi. I think it would be helpful if you listed the type of flour you are using and your flour/water ratio for the refreshments. Are you discarding a portion of the culture before feeding it? How about the water? City, well, bottled?
Bonnie Ohara Bread Baking for Beginners - Question re: Alchemy Sourdough Recipe I'm hoping someone here has worked there way through Bread Baking for Beginners and can answer a question about the Alchemy Sourdough recipe at the very end of the book.The recipe calls for a Starter and a "Second Build". The starter is pre...	Response? Hello! I'm finishing Bonnie Ohara's book as well and I have the exact same question as you about the starter and the second build. Were you able to find the answer? Thank you!
Starter Terminology I know this seems a little late but I think we could all benefit if we define these terms in order to remove any confusion surrounding them. What is	new starter young starter active starter fresh starter old starter mature starter ripe starter Thanks for participating. Oct 31, 2009 Changed title of thread so it is more easily located using the site search machine. I may turn this into a FAQ or anyone wanting to make a FAQ should feel free to use the informati...
Can anybody help me? My starter, made with AP flour turned my sour dough a brown color on the inside does anybody know why?Is this BAD BACTERIA?	Tell us more about your starter How often do you feed it? The more detail you give, the better. What is your water supply? What is your sourdough container for storage and mixing? What temperatures are you keeping your starter? How brown is the crumb, any pictures? I see you have posted an earlier question along the...
Up late baby sitting sour Hi all, Love this web site! I'm here in Florida, love to see how Artisan bread has grown. I am an executive bread baker and have much respect for everyone who is making artisan bread at home. It's not as easy as a professional kitchen. I'm here up late baby sitting my olive sour. I like how te...	Think I'll Try Hey! Nice simple formula - and the olives make it even better - I live in Oregon (moved here from Jax, FL) and we're into mushroom season - so I'll add some chanterelles to the olives and see how that bakes upl thanks for the idea - and the recipe.
Micro organisms - air vs grain I've always been intrigued by the biological aspect of sourdough. There has been much debate about the validity of theories on whether the yeast and bacteria species exist on the grain or are drawn from the air around us via the provision of favourable food sources ie flour & water, etc....	I can tell you my experience I am in Italy, and although I considered bringing some sourdough along on our house exchange, I didn't. I have made some here with gaarp's tutorial as a guide. The flour and water made bubbles in the first 24 hours. Today I baked my first Italian sourdough, and it is lovely. The bread is a ...
Starter seems to be doing nothing... Hi all, Thought I would make the foray into creating my own starter and armed with Reinhart's BBA book, some coarse rye flour and pineapple juice I started on day one and left it at room temperature (around 20˚c). On Day Two, 24hrs later, I checked and nothing had happened. Fair eno...	yep, sounds slow Can you find a warmer place for it? Don't give up. Yes, discard and give another feeding. Keep using the unsweetened pineapple juice. Stir and cover everytime you check on it. Something is bound to happen soon. Mini
Switching to white AP flour has put my starter to sleep Hello, I need some advice on my new starter. 2 weeks ago I started with organic dark rye and bottled spring water. I was pretty stumped by the "false rise" then nothing for 4 days, until I came accross this forum and Debra Wink's post, so I stuck with it, and in...	Weaning . . . , Try weaning the starter of the rye over a series of feedings reducing it 10% per feeding. o Sourdough likes rye flour o Temperature around 77 dF (82 is fine) o Switching white flour base probably isn't a good idea. It's best to establish a starter that is both healthy and robust before developing var...
How to tell if a Sourdough Starter still alive How to tell if a sourdough starter is still alive? If a sourdough starter is dead, is there anyway to rescue it? What happen if use dead sourdough starter in bread?	You can find a lot of You can find a lot of information on TFL about starter activity. Here two simple observations: - If you refresh it (ie add to 1 part by weight of starter 2 part of flour and 2 part of water), it should at least double in a reasonable time at a reasonable temperature. You should see bubble and yeas...
Starter Maintenance I recently created a starter using organic apple juice and whle wheat white flour. The first 3 days were 2T whole wheat white and 2T apple juice, 4th day - pulled out 1/4 C discarded balance and added 1/4 C WWW and 1/4 water, will do the same on day 5 (today). How do i maintain the starter after its...	Early Starter Maintenance You will want to feed your starter daily until it is strong enough to triple in volume between feedings and has a pleasant sour taste. If it is doubling in volume in less than 12 hours, you may need to feed it twice or even three times daily while it is not refrigerated (the determining facto...
Rosemary Olive Oil Loaf I am new to bread baking and have been making pan loaves (except for one "freeform" spelt loaf). I have a sandwich loaf that the family likes so I can make a few of those per week for lunches. My wife requested a rosemary olive loaf and I want to make one after my starter is complete (if I can ...	Links to try http://food.jitterbeangirl.com/archives/000694.html http://attheveryyeast.blogspot.com/2009/05/rosemary-and-olive-oil-loaf.html
Stiff starter quantities? Greetings! I'm reading Bread by Jeffrey Hammelman; in part, the chapter on levain. I already have a very strong starter that is more stiff. My question: can I use a stiff levain in hammelman's recipes instead of a liquid? I am anxious to get started on the sourdough recipes, but want to be sur...	Use what you have I've asked this before as well. It really just comes down to how precise you care to follow a formula. Any starter will work in any formula--rye, stiff, liquid--as long as it's active. You can convert a bit of your stiff starter to a liquid using Hamelman's conversion chart in the back of the book,...
Help on Mixing, pointers appreciated! Hi guys, I have been making sourdough at low hydration between 68% and 70%. Recently, after achieving an ear on the sourdough, I have decided to challenge myself to move on to higher hydration. But be it I did a 78% or 75% or even at 72%, it just doesn’t form a cohesive dough. The ...	KL, sorry, I can't answer KL, sorry, I can't answer your question directly since I only work with 100% whole wheat flour and don't use a KA, but one workaround is a double hydration. Mix in you KA at 70% until you get a window pane, then add the rest of the water to bring it to the hydration you want . Since yo...
Can I go directly from fridge to oven? I have two loaves proofing in my fridge right now. I've heard that I can go directly from fridge to oven. Questions: How would I do that. I normally bake a 2.5 pound loaf (78% hydration) en Cloche for 45 minutes at 425, 20 covered and 25 uncovered. Do I modify the time? Do I m...	Is your cloche made of stone? Is your cloche made of stone? I would think that the drastic change in temperature would cause it to crack. If you have a LeCreuset cast iron enamel pot then it may be fine. I've tried baking baguettes straight out of the fridge but I wasn't able to get the color that I wanted.
Sourdough Went to Sleep and Won't Wake Up I was so proud to be baking good sourdough bread here in Italy, having figured out the flour, made a starter from local flour, and gotten the steaming and baking up to snuff. (Well, I had baked three days in a row successfully after 5 days of making my starter.) Then my starter...	Mike Avery has a lot of good information at his site, SourDoughHome, at http://www.sourdoughhome.com/revivingastarter.html that I read through before I discovered this TFL resource. I am too inexperienced at all this myself to give you any advice, other than to say that I had success by following his advice. I'm stil...
What are the signs that bulk fermentation has gone long enough I have read about the benefits of retarding dough during bulk fermentation in order to prolong that fermentation and thereby enhance flavor, about the signs of over fermentation, and about how longer fermentation is generally better for flavor than shorter ...	Nancy Silverton: Fermenting: The First Rise In Nancy Silverton's book, Breads from the La Brea Bakery, she describes Fermenting when writing about a sourdough country white loaf, in her chapter called A Lesson In Bread Making, quoted below:"Whenever you ferment or proof dough, you have to watch it carefully. My recomme...
My First 100% whole wheat sourdough Hi all. I finally got my starter going and this is the first sourdough loaf I baked (last week). Very happy with how it turned out. Looks quite a bit like the Desem that was posted a few months ago. Thanks all for your advice on getting my starter going. This was a basic lean r...	Nicely done Nicely done. That is a lovely looking loaf!
A Salty Question I did the final build on a batch of sourdough last night from my 100% hydration starter. Component calculations were done with JMonkey's Excel spreadsheet (thank you!), and for reference here's my batch build: 100% Hydration Starter: 810g (used two expansions from initial 50g) 50/50 KAF AP & KAF Brea...	I live in fear of doing that . . . Because I have active dry yeast instead of instant, I like to hydrate the yeast by adding the yeast to the liquid first, then a layer of dry ingredients and the salt last. But since recipes are not always written in that order, I live in fear of forgetting the salt. My solution has ...
Strengthening My Starters I have recently moved to feeding my starters a lot more flour and water, and I think its paying off. I originally started off with a 2:1:1 feeding schedule, but I now have Blarf at 1:4:6 twice a day (150% hydration, grows 11X each feeding) and Dulce at 1:4:2 once a day(50% hydration, grows 7X)...	I agree When I replenish my very active starter once a day, I use all but the skimming in the container to make the 1-2-3 formula bread. Within 8 hours, the replenishment is bubbly. Patricia
iodized salt Greetings! I'd like to use iodized salt in my sourdough loaves. I've been baking sourdough for about 1 1/2 years. Can iodized salt be used in sourdoughs or does it have an adverse effect on the yeast & bacteria culture? Cheers! Marie.	No Difference Experienced I use it all the time (Morton's table salt) and never found any difference between it and kosher salt in the way the dough developed or the flavor of the bread. Measured, of course, by weight not volume.
Sourdough Starter dud Hello all! I've been lurking here for quite sometime. I'm fairly new to all this bread making 'obsession'. I say obsession because six months ago I went from buying a used bread machine to giving it way and buying my first heavy duty stand mixer and baking bread everyday! I've hesitated jumping i...	I'm not sure that I can I'm not sure that I can answer your question scientifically, but it has been my observation that starters become a lot more robust and more reliable after several months of feedings and refrigeration cycles. I've got a whole wheat starter that I made by converting from a white starter, and then...
"backing up" my starter.. I was always paranoid about my starter dying or mutating.. every year or so I dry some and save in the freezer in case I need it. I have 6 years worth of starter. Last month I did something really stupid and killed my starter. To give a starter a good start after feeding, I sometime put it ...	Could the same be done with a Could the same be done with a firm starter? Couldn't I simpy roll out the firm starter into the thinnest layer possible and then let it dry in the same manner? What steps do you use to reconstitute your starter.
Recipe Decision--Liquid vs. Firm Starter--Why? When an accomplished baker sits down to write a new sourdough formula, why does he or she choose a liquid starter, or choose a firm starter? Susan from San Diego	Liquid vs. firm Hi Susan, It's a very interesting question! There's probably not a single, right answer for it, but I'll try to communicate what I've gathered at least. In a large bakery, you typically don't keep a huge pile of preferments or starters. You could have a batch of poolish, a biga or pate fermentee of some...
Slinging Frisbees Here's your weekly sourdough trouble shooting plea. Out of about 12 attempts I have managed to bake a decent loaf, but I don't know why, and since then they have all been flat and gummy. First, the positives:- Taste is amazing and sour- Starter is on a regular, powerful, schedule- Baking times and m...	First, glad you got a good First, glad you got a good taste, to me that is more important that the looks. You might want to try reducing your bulk ferment. Many have reported ending bulk at 30% increase in volume and getting good results in the baguette thread. You might want to experiment with an aliquot jar to m...
New to Sourdough Hi every one. I need some help. I have never made sourdough bread and would like to start. I have a recipe for a starter. Pkg. yeast 2c. water 2c. flour it says to let starter stand on counter for 3 days. Stirring once a day. On the 3rd day use then feed or remove a cup,feed and refrigerate. Do I...	Starting a starter Fortarcher, The recipe that you found would more accurately be called a type of pre-ferment; perhaps a poolish. If you want to get off to a good start (sorry, I couldn't resist), try following the directions posted by Sourdolady. If you would like to understand some of the science behind it, read Deb...
My "sourdough" bread tasted like white bread. I've been feeding a sourdough starter for over 6 months. I've baked it with only twice. Both times I used the same recipe and both times the bread did not taste or look like sourdough. The bread tonight tasted just like white bread. I didn't use quarry tiles or spray th...	sounds sound to me The baked loaf may sour up as the days go by. If it lasts that long. Could be your starter is lopsided yeasty with less lacto-action. How cold is the refrigerator? A few degrees cooler than normal may make a big difference. Try feeding regularly (2 x day) and leaving it out on the counter top ...
Newbie saying hello Hi! My name is Arie and I'm a breadoholoic.. I'm lurking around this board for a short while. Very interesting and tons of experienced people around here (and exceptionally civilized too :).. I started baking bread over 30 years ago. I have no training and when I started this there was no Inte...	Good for you! Welcome to the Fresh Loaf, Arie! I've learned to embrace the "sourdough dread" too and I know it can be intimidating to a beginner (to whom your article is addressed.) Aside from thinking the yeasts are captured from the air, it's an easy to read website write up that I'm sure will inspire new sourdough ...
My Daily Starter Feeding Procedure for 23°C Temperature (From Italy) Hi everyone. I'm Sandro from Italy. Here there is how I feed my sourdough starter two times at day. Well, I use the "Camaldoli sourdought". I have bought it from Sourdoughs International. I store it at room temperature and I feed it so: 9.00Am--> I ta...	Good routine, Sandro Sandro, that sounds like a good routine to me. Within a couple of weeks your sourdough will no longer be of Camaldoli, but of wherever you live. The yeast and bacteria of your region will become the natives in your culture. It is worth mentioning to anyone starting sourdough, that it takes a few we...
My second effort This is my second effort at sourdough. A few days ago you all encouraged me to "bake with it", so I did. Now I'm back, with more questions, and more results. First though, a short story of this bread. I created this as what I thought was a 64% hydration dough, with a 100% hydration starter, but I th...	Good Start! Getting going with sourdough is often an interesting learning process. Especially if your scale is broken or inaccurate! You survived your this round quite nicely and it seems you overcame several challenges along the way. I think the crumb looks fine. With experience you may (or may not) aspire to crumb mo...
Large Batch of Starter To create a large batch of starter for many loaves (30), do I just keep feeding until I get the amount I need? How often? 8 hours or more between feedings?	Yup It probably won't take much either. My starter is a 67% one, that I feed 1:3:2 (starter:flour:water). That grows it very fast. 2 oz becomes 12 after one feeding, and that 12 becomes 72 at the next feeding. I find that feeding works fine every 12 hours at room temp, or over a couple days in the fridge.
Pain Au Levain \| What's the secret? I'm on the verge of throwing in the towel. After too many attempts to count, I do not seem to be getting any closer to a great loaf of bread. Some have bascially good flavor but do not rise up in the oven into beautiful loaves of bread. I've tried multiple formulas and it seems that ...	Don't Give Up You don't use yeast in this naturally leveaned bread. That means it will take much longer to rise than a yeasted formula. Maybe you're not giving it enough time to mature. I think you're contaminating your formula as you process beyond the initial kneading effort. You're using a power drive kneading m...
Sourdough Miche Here are the loaves I'm currently working on: I used: 150g 1:2:1 starter - Dulce (3 days after feeding) 50g 2:4:5 starter - Blarf (14 hours after feeding) 1085 Giusto Ultimate Performer (high gluten flour) 721g water 24g salt I fermented for 5 hours. Shaped 2 1000g boules and proofed for 4 hours. Bak...	Those look great! I've been Those look great! I've been following your progress (since it kind of parallels mine) and your baking seems to improve every time you post. On the subject of starters, I definitely saw a huge improvement when I made sure to feed my starter regularly for at least two days ahead of the bakin...
Ciabatta Reinhart recipe I saw this recent posting and really want to give this recipe a go. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/13880/ciabatta But I would like to make it with sourdough - anyone has tried this before? Help with recipe, pls!	For some reason your link For some reason your link didn't work. You can make ciabatta with sourdough. Here is a link to lots of info on how it has been done with sourdough http://sourdough.com/forum/ciabatta-bake-off
Sour dough rise Hello again from hot AZ. I mixed 2 loaves of SD Bread yesterday. Had a perfect window pane test. Left over night 12-14 hours . Very hot in the room I would say close to about 90 - 95 degrees. This am the bread had rose perfectly except the out side crust was almost as if i had baked for a few minute...	drying When you left these to rise, how were you storing them? From your description I'm going to guess that you just had them sat in a bowl with no covering. If you do this, then the air currents in the room will wick away the moisture from the surface of your dough, leaving it with a papery crust... much like you des...
Activating my starter Hello, for years I have activated my starter by adding half a cup of starter from the fridge to a cup of flour and a cup of water.I leave this for 12 hours before adding another half cup of flour and half cup of water and leaving for another 4 hours.Today I activated my starter with half cup start...	Measuring flour in cups is Measuring flour in cups is very inaccurate, and actually 1:1 flour:water by volume will give you a very liquidy starter. That's just an FYI.However if it doubled in 4 hours I'd say that's a very healthy and active starter, so go ahead and use it!
Sourdough Start Question Hello everybody. My name is Thane and I just signed up. I've been baking on and off for most of my adult life, but just began baking regularly about 3 months ago. I've decided to venture into sourdough, so am building my own starter (I like to start things from scratch). I've been following...	re: sourdough starter question Thane, For those of us unfamiliar with Glezer's book, would you mind describing the process? How many times a day do you feed the starter? What does 50% mean in this situation? You say that it rises "some." Does it double in volume between feedings? I would recommend reading some of the e...
different oven Hello all, Need some help again I'm afraid. I was lucky enough to have access to a professional kitchen yesterday with a fantastic steam/bread oven. I baked some sourdough there, which normally at home, rises well, bursting through its crust and comes out airy and quite light with big holes. However in t...	Hi James Always a treat to figure out an unfamiliar oven's traits, isn't it? Yes, it is possible that the oven indicated it had reached temperature before it was well and truly heated. I'm assuming that you bake your bread at 250 (Celsius, right?) at home, as well. Was the restaurant's oven a convection model? How ab...
Newbie help Ok, I’m a newbie here, so a little back ground is in order. I’ve tried to get a sourdough starter going three or four times in the past. With less then good results, I used dehydrated starters and they appeared to be going good but when I tried to make bread things fell apart. Ok that’s in the past and trul...	too thick? if the starter is too thick, it will not develop the foam.. it needs to be a bit liquidy..
Did I kill it? I am attempting Glezer's firm sourdough starter. This is week 1 and I was supposed to refresh it last evening and forgot. I took care of it first thing this morning and it had a rather pleasant sour smell. Do you think I'm okay or should I start over and hang the schedule around my neck. Thanks. Caro...	You're fine Keep going, the starter isn't watching the clock.
Feeding Schedules I am currently keeping my starter Blarf on a 2:4:5 (starter:flour:water) twice a day feeding schedule. My room temperature is usually around 62F-68F. It was on once a day, but I recently switched to see if I could get it more active. Blarf has only been on this schedulef or a few days, but he still d...	I'm just a novice so it would I'm just a novice so it would be presumptive of me to advise you since my starter is only a couple of months old. Therefore, I won't try to advise you. I can tell you, though, what I've observed myself in the last couple of days. Our weather has changed dramatically since Sunday when it ...
Glezer's Sourdough Semolina Question Has anyone made Maggie Glezer's "Sourdough Semolina Bread" from her book, A Blessing of Bread? I am trying to make this but need help converting my sourdough starter for this formula. The formula calls for firm starter refreshed 8-12 hrs prior, then using 30g starter with 80g water...	Suggestion I believe Glezer has instructions for making a firm starter in the book. Look at the hydration level she prescribes. Refresh you starter at that level, then use it to make the intermediate starter ("final build" before mixing it with the dough). David
Sourdough baguette experiment -- Success! Usually when I get it in my head to cobble together a formula based on two or three things I've seen mentioned on this forum, two more in my head, and a bit of whimsy, the results are not pretty. Especially when it comes to baguettes. The last two or three times I've tried to...	They look really great. It They look really great. It feels great when a bread experiment turns out good doesn't it? I might try your formula if I ever get the time. Quote:Got to set up a bakers math calculator for myself. Anyway, the formula ended up being thus: I have set up some spreadsheets to use for baking br...
Starter isn't tripling any more; is this a problem? I have a starter born this past May that, all summer long, reliably tripled at its peak. Around mid-August - BEFORE the weather got appreciably cooler - it started to peak at lower and lower levels, until now I'm lucky if I can get it to double before collapsing. It s...	How are you feeding your starter? And... Did you change your routine in August? Many times just mixing a little rye flour in with the AP will help out a lot when a starter is sluggish. Mini
Newbie Sourdough Question I am new to sourdoughs and I made up a stiff dough levain starter a few weeks ago, but haven't used it yet. I fed it this morning and couldn't bear to keep throwing away half of it, so I fed both halves. Now I need to bake with one portion tomorrow morning. I want to make a whole wheat loaf, b...	Re: Newbie sourdough question You don't have to have different starters for every bread. Yes, by all means you can use a white starter in WW bread. As long as you are aware of the adjustments needed to get the dough consistency that you are after you can use a starter of any consistency. It might be easier to adjust th...
Need some sourdough starter quick! Hi everyone! I've been hiking the Appalachian Trail for the past several months and finally settled down in West Virginia. I'm trying to get a job and have a good chance as a cook and baker BUT the owner wants to taste my breads, and he particularly wants a sourdough bread as a sample...	Ive got some starters - can priority mail them let me know what you need. Stan Ginsbergwww.nybakers.com
King Arthur SD Baguette Video Martin with King Arthur just published a nice video about baking Sourdough Baguettes. It is well done and informative. And what a great crumb!https://youtu.be/LiqEhzyc7zQ	That's so cool! Now I want to That's so cool! Now I want to learn to make baguettes really bad. Thanks for the link!By the way, what's that peel-like thing he uses to load the baguettes in the oven?
Wheat Montana Natural White Does anyone happen to know what the protein content of Wheat Montana Natural White flour is. I've have really good luck with it the past two bakes of pain au levain. It does not seem to be as strong as KA Bread flour though. Yesterday though, my order of Giusto's Artisan was delivered and my...	Not sure about the Natural White, but Wheat Montana lists their whole wheat flours as 14.5% protein content. That makes me think that the Natural White is in the same ballpark. I remember that the bag said "High protein", but don't recall exactly what the analysis was. It seems like it was listed as 4 grams of prote...
sourdough honey cake Hi, I usually bake a yummy buckwheat rye honeycake, but I would like to try a sourdough version. Does anyone have any tips or recipes for sourdough cake in general? Or specifically, honey? If it needs fat, I would prefer to use oil rather than butter or margarine. Thanks, CR	sourdough cake Hello chayarivka, BTW, my Hebrew name is sarachana...anyway, your posting reminded me of my grandma's honey cake that she claimed she created in the 1940's. She forbade anyone in the family to give out the recipe! It is a wonderful recipe but alas, I can no longer eat it having been diagnosed with gluten...
slime or mold? My ww start has been in the fridge for about 2 weeks and I pulled it out last night to see if it was still alive enough to revive. What I found was that (as usual) a darkish sludge had settled to the top. What I also found (not so usual) was that there were spots or pockets of very dark sludge here and...	Slime or Mold Assuming your fridge is working and the temperature is somewhere between 32-40 degrees, you should not have to worry about any toxins. Sounds like 'hooch' to me - the alcoholic by-product of the yeasties feedings on the dough. If you haven't fed your starter in awhile, this by-product will rise to the s...
Problem with natural yeast Hi everybody,i uesd to bake with natural yeast my pan de campagne but in the last 2 weeks it star gettin to much slow,i used to prepare in thenight and after put in the refrigerator all night and the next morning after 3 hours i was shapin.....and ok;but know after 4 hours there is not much...	Lots of possibilities, but not enough information to know which one is most likely. How about giving us a description of your formula (ingredients and quantities) and a step-by-step description of your process (mixing, kneading, temperatures, etc.) so that folks can give you a better diagnosis? Be sure to mention if ...
What is the rational for the percentage of starter being used? I've been toggling between 3 different recipes for a basic white Pain au Levain lately that call for 3 different percentages of firm levain to be used. Anywhere from 25% to as much as 68%. All have relatively close hydration percentages. With hydration thou...	Excellent question I'm not sure what the answer is, probably all of the above. If you look at the 1-2-3 formul
How High Your Bread Ok, a mere beginner here, trying very hard, alas - the starter bubbles at the seams, the La Cloche at the ready, the dough has been folded, degassed, allowed to rise thrice its prerequisite double - and still, the resulting loaf cannot get above 3 1/2 inches at its highest point. The most flour use...	would the 4 1/4 cup flour recipe do better in a loaf pan ?
Questions On Reviving My Starter It has been an interesting project. Greetings, all. I'm a brand new poster here, although I have been reading for a couple of months now. What a wonderful treasure trove of knowledge and gracious help. Thank you to you all. I have baked mediocre yeast breads for many years, but only...	Try it and let us know Sourdough is fun and not so fun. Your starter looks great but remember that it is such a young thing. Try it and be patient as sd doesnt respond as quickly as 2 T of instant yeast.Emjoy the ride,have fun and share your story. It will not be long and you will be posting award winning bread photo...
Newbie reconstituting a 4-year old dried starter (Carl's) Hi All! I have been lurking on here the past week trying to learn as much as I can about maintaining my starter. I got OT Starter in the mail in 2005 and, with all the best intentions in the world, never got to it until about a week ago. I followed Carl's origin...	Soleil I have no experience with Carl's starter but sounds to me like the starter needs more food. Are you stirring the starter inbetween feeds? I am now doing 50g starter, 50g water, 50g flour Try reducing the 50g starter to 20g on the next feeding and tuck into the refrigerator in the evening for an overnight chi...
Flour Rings from Willow Banneton I use 9 inch willow bannetons with a 50/50 (rice flour/bread flour) mix to flour them with. I divide a batch of dough between the two. Estimated weight of dough is 560 grams each piece after first bulk fermentation. Seems if I put too much flour, I get a big clump on the top only, and i...	Do David's obsevations help? http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/9881/unplanned-experiment-differences-oven-spring-and-bloom
Can I just make a recipe up? OK I am pretty sure I can... I do have a couple questions, (at the end) So, I have been eyeballing the BBA Potato cheddar & chive recipe, as well as some sourdough recipes and beer & cherddar recipes from this site. So, I am trying to combine all 3. I got a Saranac Brown Ale, nice dark &...	OOH, big math error 2.8%/130%=2.15%/100%. So I meant is 12gsalt for 550gflour reasonable?
anyone have a recipe using unfed starter? I have a highly demanding 1-year-old. The ability to make a levain (especially a multi-stage levain) is usually a limiting factor in my sourdough bread production. I'm wondering if anybody has a good sourdough recipe (for actual sourdough bread, not like muffins or something) u...	Feed your starter and allow to mature Refrigerate and use within a week. Follow a normal recipe just allowing for different timings. Watch the dough and not the clock.
Those elongated holes in crumb - Why ? Hello everyone,I've been seeing the same pattern in my crumb for the past 3/4 loaves, not very airy and those kind of elongated holes reaching for the top opening in the crust. flowing in the same direction instead of being nice spherical bubbles. Wondering what am I doing wron...	It doesn't look like anything It doesn't look like anything is wrong to me! I think that is just what happens when you are baking with 82% hydration and a hot oven, all the pressure and gas tries to erupt through the slashes at the top. The super wet dough is yielding and lets it through. If you wanted a more even crum...
No baking powder allowed Dear all. We are not allowed to use baking power. Does anyone had experience using a sourdough starter instead? Thanks	No, nobody here knows nothing about sourdough. Just kidding ...not. So what are you making that you need baking powder and not allowed to use it? Can you use yeast? or soda? or alien technology? Making a sourdough starter takes about a week and if you are lucky 4 days. It can raise bread. So can Yeast water whic...
Sourdough chemistry I've read much about the sourdough process but have forgotten a some of the terminology. The process of sourdough fermentation creates an environment in the dough which makes more of the grain's nutrients (vitamins & minerals) available to us. The acid created assists this. There is a word that so...	How About This? Are you looking for "phytic" acid? AKA "phytate".
plexiglass proof box top Hi All, This is my first post. I have a culinary team building cooking program in NYC and to relax love to bake bread... I also use the breads for my program...my problem is that several years ago I bought a plexiglass proofing box top that fits nicely over a half sheet pan. I love it. Now tha...	Plexiglas cover I got mine at King Arthur Flour (www.kingarthurflour.com). The price was absurd but it does the job, and has for years. These days you could probaby get something useful, see-through, and lot cheaper at Stacks and Stacks or The Container Store. (I'm smarter now than I used to be...) --Uppity
Hooch already? 2 winters ago, rookie baker here starts and maintains a starter, easily. Threw it out after the winter just b/c I wasn't using it enough in the summer. Silly me!! Last fall, tried twice and couldn't get one going - kept turning black and STINKY. Didn't mind - too much... Now, I'm really eager to start...	I don't think it's hooch that I don't think it's hooch that you're seeing, but rather, just the liquids you've put in it. Sounds like it is a fairly high hydration? When there is no bubbling action to keep it churned up, the flour will settle out. It's nothing to be concerned about, and it won't stop anything. Just kee...
bakers % My goal sd pizza dough at 65-70% hyd. started with 100g of active fed sd starter at 100% mix 100 starer add 100g water and 150g of ap flour. Done.65-70%? I will let the above rise overnight and tomorrow my plan is to;mix 250g above,250g water and 325g of flour, let rise and make pizza. Something does not see...	more flour needed Your total H2O is 400g Your total flour is 525g 400/525 x 100 = 76%, way to wet for pizza dough! Add 400g flour instead of 325g Then: total flour is 600g total; H2O remains 400g 400/600 x 100 =67% David G
Help! First time Seed Culture/Barm went horribly awry! "Hi all, So this week I tried to make my first sourdough, and seeming as how I live in San Francisco I was pretty excited about this! I have been thoroughly enjoying "The Bread Baker's Apprentice," so I figured I'd use Reinhart's formula for Seed Culture, Barm and ...	Vinegar is one of the Vinegar is one of the products of sourdough fermentation. You need to keep feeding your starter for another week or more before you give up on it.
Favorite commercially available starter? Hi all, This is my first post on this forum. I have been busy reading many other posts to see if my burning question has already been answered BUT people seem to skip over this part in most discussions. Until last year I owned the King Arthur Flour sourdough starter and kept it ...	I have KAF and love it. I I have KAF and love it. I agree tha initially mabyt it was a little mild on flavor but I thin that is more how you use it. My main bread is a country-style loaf from Nancy Silverton's book and I retard them over night in the fridge and I get plenty of sour tang and great flavor. You also m...
How much to feed your starter? How much do you feed your starter? When I started off with Blarf, I had a 100% hydration starter that was fed 2:1:1 (starter:flour:water). This worked well for me with twice a day feedings, but I was able to get away with once a day as well. When Dulce was born, I kept her on a 1:1:1 o...	I just recently fired up a couple new starters and for the first several days of their actual starter activity (past the waking up stage) I was feeding them on a 1:1:1 ratio but found they were peaking rather quickly and even on a 12 hour feed cycle, they collapsed far too early. They probably could have done with an 8...
Storing Dried Starter I posted this yesterday in an on-going thread, but it apparently got overlooked, so I'll try again. Any advice would be appreciated. I have a starter that originated from KAF that I have been maintaining for about 2 1/2 years, and right now it is right where I like it in terms of sourness, rising ...	No need to Respond I found the answer myself in a post from David in another thread.
Name your Starter I read that some have named their starters. I think, I'll name mine Bubbles.	My starter's name is.... Herman. Not sure why.....
Kneading after (partial) bulk fermentation Got myself into a bit of a jam with a whole wheat sourdough sandwich loaf I am trying. After mixing I typically do stretch and folds every 30 minutes until I get a good windowpane (usually 4, sometimes 5). This recipe I'm trying today is 70% whole wheat flour and after the 3rd...	You would "bulk" until it's You would "bulk" until it's ready, whenever that happens to be. Enjoy!
My First Sourdough Bread Today I made my first sourdough bread! The starter had been bubbling for almost 11 days now, so I decided to give it a try. At first it didn't rise much. I guess I simply didn't knead it properly in the beginning, but by the time it came out of the oven there was a queue waiting to take a bite ...	Maybe confirm first that your starter is actually alive and healthy. Try taking 45g of the starter. Add 50g of water. Work the two together with a spatula to break of the starter. Add 95g bread flour (KA all-purpose) plus 2 teaspoons of whole wheat flour, or 2 teaspoons stone ground rye flour. Combine and knead until y...
How is it possible my starter just died? I have been using my wild yeast starter for a bit over 5 months now. Week after week my starter served me right and each loaf came out perfect. I used it last Sunday to make two loafs; fed it, let it rest for an hour, then put it back in the fridge. I was scheduled to leave ...	Feed it some rye or failing that, some whole wheat. These help to perk up sluggish starters. I would also recommend you NOT discard any until it shows signs of improving or you may be diminishing the already very small (possibly) population of yeasties in there. You don't mention what feeding ratio you're using, volume...
Too close for comfort When my wife asked me to make a loaf of sourdough for a party, I went to the fridge to get my starter that I have been babying for years and, to my horror, discovered it was gone. As the shock wore off, I began to realize I had mistakenly dumped all of my starter the week before. I had dried some ...	No sense, no feeling Larry, At the risk of engaging in oneupmanship (onedownmanship?), I have to fess up to having failed to reserve part of my starter for storage this weekend after having built up a levain. And I didn't even realize it until the loaves had been in the oven for several minutes! Unlike you, I didn't ...
When to retard? I've got a 100% starter bubbling nicely now, and I want to bake bread tomorrow morning. Thanks to the great advice I've received here, I plan to try feeding strong flour to the starter (done) and a smaller inoculation, 10% instead of 20%, and folding in the bowl to try to avoid a super-sticky unmanageab...	Hi, Jeremy You may have to do some searching to verify that my memory is correct, but I think that the general practice is to put the shaped loaves directly into the refrigerator without any time on the bench. (I'm more apt to retard the dough during the bulk fermentation simply because I find it easier to fit one con...
SOUREST sourdough bread what is the best recipe for the SOUREST sourdough on the planet? Something that smells like old cheddar cheese as an example?	I get great sour flavour by... I use a sponge, and let that sit for 24-48 hours until it has some great smell. Then make the dough and leave it in the fridge for a few days to proof. You won't be disappointed ;)
The levain mystery Hi after having made several straight dough bread, I would like to try a levain based recipe. I am looking for a method (recipe) on how to prepare levain. I am also looking for some readings on the subject. Thank you,	Doing a SEARCH would give you tons of results on "starter recipe" but this is one that you might find helpful: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10359/discouraged-southeast#comment-54426 For "Reading on the subject": http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10856/pineapple-juice-solution-part-1 http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/...
I cannot make sense of this baker's math for this recipe... Help, I cannot make sense of the online tutorials for bakers math. And then when I found Jeremy Shapiro's sourdough recipe, his math sends my wittle bwain into a tailspin. What I want to do is to make 2 (two) 500 gram boules using his recipe. Please help me o...	If you're looking to make 1kg as a final dough and the total recipe given make 25.3 kg, probably the easiest thing is to divide all the weights by 25.3 So the first feeding says the 100% flour weight is 1500g. Divide that by 25.3 and you have 52.9 - let's call it 53g. So there's your "100%" value that everything else i...
sourdough starter questions Hello, I started a rye sourdough starter today, as described in Hamelman's book, 450 g water and 450 g organic whole rye flour. The consistency is a very thick paste -- is that OK? My husband says I need to add water. I am also pretty confused about maintaining it. Again, I have read what...	When you feed your starter, When you feed your starter, usually after baking with it.......let it rise and bubble.....when it does this....put it in the refrigerator until you may need to use it. Take it out the day before and feed it again, unless you are going to make a levain with it, which is like a feeding but gi...

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