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Starter Volume discrepancies Since I'm a newbie,I still have questions prior to starting baking my first sourdough. I have seen recipes varying everywhere from 1/8 - 2 cups of starter. I like extra sour sourdough and from what I have read so far, the fermentation time and temperature is what determines the sourness of ...	Many variables Too many! The amoujt of starter not only depends on time and temperature, but also the interplay of other ingredients and the purpose of the sourdough in the formula. You may not use it for sour taste or leavening at all, but only to lighten whole grains and/or to extend shelf life. The amount for a ...
Organic Rye Flour I am attempting to make Organic Sourdough and am following Reinhart's recipe for the starter. Is there such thing as Organic Rye flour for the first 2 days, or is there something else I can use? What about Pumpernickle? I have a nice starter going for the Sourdough but it is not Organic. I'm fairl...	Great Infromation Source Check out "Sourdough Home'. You'll find great information on starters and all things sourdough (http://www.sourdoughhome) To answer your question, I have used Arrowhead Farms Organic Rye. I have found this brand (in Arizona) at quite a few major food stores. You might also try to locate organic...
Tip - Levain Timing - Variables - For those with sourdough (SD) baking experience, no explanation is necessary. The following is posted fore those new to the game...Most formulas and methods instruct the baker to ferment their precisely described levain for “X” amount of hours. Many even say overnight. A few will indic...	Thanks for posting this Dan. Thanks for posting this Dan. Have it bookmarked, and will be doing some reading this week!
Anyone with an Active Starter I can get in DC? I know you hate throwing all that good starter away. I would love to take some of it off your hands. Let me know if you're in DC and have some starter! maawallace	I have some in Bethesda Though to be frank, it's been sitting in my fridge for about a month. It's BBA starter that I've used successfully for a few months, but just haven't had the time/inclination to do too much in the way of sourdough. Let me know if you want to grab some--unfortunately, I'm out of town this weekend...
Please help with stuck sponge Hi! I don;t know if non-sour-dough starters are allowed her. I am making active ferment sponge from liquid yeast culture - the current culture is a couple of months old. Everywhere else on this forum, sponge is a pre-ferment. Since mine takes over a day to set, I don't think we are talking...	Lastest batch This one did not get stuck. Starting 1st rise, No emptins used. Now, all I need to know is why.
Pizza dough tearing apart easily- need diagnosis I was being both parsimonious and curious when I decided to make pizza dough using a 100% starter that had been sitting in the back of the fridge for 3 months without feeding. To it, I added a small amount of active starter, and let this preferment mixture sit overnight...	I think the preferment might be too acidic I didn't look this up, but it does look like you have a lack of gluten development. You can develop gluten in dough even without adding yeast or salt by just kneadng flour and water together. So there must be something in the preferment (an enzyme or acid) that is either break...
Am I the only one who has stirred their starter with a metal spoon? I just picked up a stainless steel teaspoon and stirred my starter with it. Please tell me I don't have to throw it out. I have just gotten it to making great sourdough bread. It was made according to SourDoLady's recipe using pineapple juice and unble...	No worries I think the prohibition against metal is meant to protect the metal, not the SD. SD can be acidic enough to pit metal surfaces--I think there are stories about 49ers polishing metal with their starter. But using a metal spoon to stir your starter should not harm the starter and it's unlikely that a young s...
Am I the only one who has stirred their starter with a metal spoon? I just picked up a stainless steel teaspoon and stirred my starter with it. Please tell me I don't have to throw it out. I have just gotten it to making great sourdough bread. It was made according to SourDoLady's recipe using pineapple juice and unble...	Nope Do it all the time. No problems. Mini
feeding too often doesn't allow for proper ph?? I hate to post another question on here so soon but have exhausted my bread books for answers... I read a lot of conflicting thoughts on how often to feed. I read to feed when it has doubled, I read to never let it start to die/deflate from the doubling point, I read to l...	Don't worry your starters. I find that if I just stir down the starter, stirring the liquid on top back into it, then refrigerating it, it's just fine. I think you're worrying too much.
Wanting More sour in my bread Hi Out there I hope that all is well with everyone. I have a question. I have been makeing a SF sour dough I think it is out of the bread bible. I want to get more of a sour tast. will adding more starter to it help? It calls for one cup of starter now. for one loaf but it is not as sour a...	Hard to say I have been makeing a SF sour dough I think it is out of the bread bible. I want to get more of a sour tast. will adding more starter to it help? Hard to say, but if you provide more details about the formula, method, and how you maintain your starter, maybe someone here can help you get closer to what you...
Sourdough Starter I have a starter and it does not seem to leaven properly. It bubbles just fine when I feed it however whenever I try to bake anything out of it, it just doent leaven properly. Now whenever I try making sourdough bread I have to add small amounts of comercial yeast just to be sure that my bread will ri...	Keep feeding it. Keep it at Keep feeding it. Keep it at room temperature for a few weeks and feed it twice a day. If it doesn't double in the 12 hour period, then feed it only once per day until it does. If it's sluggish, stir it three times per day to help stimulate the yeast. By doing this, you will help the yea...
White rice flour starter? I bought some rice flour last week and I am wondering what I can use it for. I have been doing sourdough breads for two months. Each loaf turned out beautifully. I am thinking to give white rice flour a try to see if I can make a sourdouogh stater out of it. Has anyone tried it? This is w...	No gluten in rice flour. There's absolutely no gluten in rice flour so I don't see how you could make a starter out of it.
20% Rye with Onions I had a great time today with 20% rye with onion. I remain focused on trying to get my stroke down really solidly with a particular formula, but I stepped out a little today. I've been concentrating on baguettes, 250 g prebake weight. I've been trying different flour combinations. I like the fla...	That is a great photo That is a great photo portrait!! Thank you for posting these :)
Stone ground whole grain mixing time. I've been baking with stone ground whole grain flour (Farmer Ground Flour) for quite some time now but am wondering if it is possible to get better results, namely better gluten development.Currently, I use 33% ripe starter (100% hydration; 90% high extraction, 10% rye) which is fe...	There is no short answer to There is no short answer to your question but in my experience less PFF and shorter autolyse has beneficial effects on whole grain flour. Unfortunately there's too many variables to give a definitive answer here, ultimately the best solution is practice practice practice
not enough starter for recipes Hi all you sourdough experts. I used the Debra Wink method to make my started, and am only feeding it 1/4 cup of each flour and water to 1/4 cup starter. Most of the recipes I've looked at call for much larger amounts of starter. Do I just feed my starter without discarding any to create...	Starter Management I am new to this business of baking, so others here may be able to provide more insight than me, but here are a few comments on your post that may be helpful: 1. It sounds like you are using recipes that call for quite a bit of starter. Most of the ones I use call for 1/8 cup. A notable exception ...
66% Sorudough Rye Greetings, everyone. I am new to the site and relatively new to baking. I've been learning breadmaking by perusing a bunch of sourdough blogs and also reading Jeffrey Hamelman's "Bread" book. Last weekened, I started a 66% Rye Sourdough that is listed in his Sourdough Rye chapter. It's proofing in ...	Hi Steve. Hi Steve. I haven't made this bread, but I just looked at the formula. After the rye sourdough has ripened (14 to 16 hours), you use all of it minus 2 tablespoons to make he final dough, which gets kneaded for 3 minutes on speed 1 and 2 minutes on sped 2. The leftover 2 tablespoons of rye sourdough is kept in...
I used my "mother" on Mother's Day I used my brand new from scratch starter for the first time today. The starter is about 16 days old and going like gangbusters. First I used it to make sourdough english muffins from Susan at Wild Yeast's recipe: http://www.wildyeastblog.com/2007/09/11/sourdough-english-muffins/ ...	Hi Jan There are a lot of threads on how to make your starter more sour. If you can't find them, just drop a post and I'll look around for you. --Pamela
Refreshment Refreshment Also, does the act of repeated refreshment prove detrimental to the bacteria population because we're removing large quantities of the colony each time we use a quantity of starter. Or once fed, does the bacteria colony bounce back with the provision of fresh food?	bounces back The bacteria colony will bounce back (think culture in petri dish). As I understand it, the yeast will normally repopulate faster than the bacteria. This is why one way to adjust the sourness of the dough is by using more or less of the original starter in the final dough.
The inevitable next beginner question Now that my wild yeast starter is perking along (How do you get a starter going? Post a whine on this website that it's not going and--whammo! It takes off!), I'm dreaming of actually USING the starter soon. . . One of the reasons I wanted sourdough was to add to the multigrain l...	Dumb I am I did mean 30 ml of water, not grams. DUH!
latest thing learned about SD flavour I'm fairly new and been trying SD from a bulk bucket of dough I've been keeping in the fridge the last 8 days. Its been going great with a rich SD flavour and smell once baked. Loaves have been taking 2 days to make once a lump comes out of the fridge, so yesterday I decided to he...	Your Process I am curious to know a little more about your process. Did you mix the dough and put it straight into the refrigerator? Or did you let it sit at room temperature for a while? What kind of flour did you use? What proportions of flour, starter, and salt? Colin
Too much Oven Spring Does sourdough bread typically have more oven spring than yeasted breads? I'm wondering because every time I bake with my starter I get out of control oven-spring. I shape them nicely, score them well and still get grossly disfigured loaves. What could be causing this? Here is an example of my ...	oven spring wanna post your recipe????? qahtan
Peter Reinhart's 100% Rye I have some questions on Peter Reinharts 100% Rye bread. The inside is heavy. It reached 200 degrees on my instant read therm. I also had shrinkage during the baking.I know this isnt the easiest bread to make but it is the most nutritious and that is my goal. I'm using a soaker and a starter ...	One of my Favorites This is actually one of my favorite breads. However, this and any other 100% rye bread are going to be dense. Rye doesn't have the gluten that wheat does, so this can't be entirely avoided. I have found that I get the lightest rye results when using relatively high hydration and cooking at a high...
Starter as a percentage of final dough So far, I've been relying on reading and recipies (more or less) to slog my way through the sourdough learning curve. But, here's a question I don't remember seeing addressed. When building a bread recipe, is there a rule of thumb for how much of the flour is from the starter vs. ...	I am glad somebody asked this I am glad somebody asked this question. I've wondered the same thing myself. Like you, I've "slogged" my way through the learning curve. My current, most successful sourdough recipe uses about 20% starter. The bakers percentage for the flour it contains, it's pretty wet, is about 9%. ...
Three-Build System - Firm Starter What is the benefit of building a firm starter from barm before incorporating into the final dough? Could it be that this allows the critters in the barm to propagate into larger population, hence making the starter more powerful? Thank you.	Reinhart You must be reading Peter Reinhart, as he is the only author who used the term "barm," which is defined by Wikipedia as: Barm is the foam, or scum, formed on the top of liquor (i.e. fermented alcoholic beverages such as beer or wine, or feedstock for hard liquor or industrial ethanol distillation) when ferme...
Rye Hello bakers, Can anyone tell me what the difference is between dark rye and pumpernickel. Can i substitute dark rye for recipes that call for pumpernickel or light rye? I tried to google it but it still wasn't quite clear to me. Thank you	Homework assignment: http://theryebaker.com/rye-flour/https://nybakers.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&keyword=bay+state+rye&x=0&y=0http://www.theartisan.net/Flours_One.htmhttps://nybakers.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=16&products_id=28
Can I fold too many times ? When using slack dough for Ciabatta I get inconsistant loaf height. I may have overproofed one batch, but my question is to do with my (limited) understanding of dough strength through gluten development and folding. Is there a practical limit to the number of times I can fold my slack dough...	I don't think so The gluten will relax again after it sits a while. I could fathom over mixing by machine, but over stretching and folding would be tough .
Not upset....just bewildered I've been making sourdough for about 5 months now. I have a great wild yeast starter. The end product of my labors has been nothing short of great---great tasting bread, beautiful crumb, and a yummy thick chewy crust. The only part from beginning to end that seems to frustrate me is the p...	More details I think it would be most helpful to post the recipe you are using, especially the hydration of the dough.
loving Hamelman's pain au levain with whole wheat! Hi, Having been on the great quest for that perfect daily bread for my family, I think I'm getting closer. I've been baking Hamelman's Pain au Levain now and again with mixed reviews from the family. I recently tried the pain au levain with whole wheat and it has been...	I don't have... a stand mixer. Do you think it'd be possible to mix that one by hand? Happy baking! Heather/Flour Girl
freezing a starter? Can I deepfreeze a starter? Mine is working for several weeks now, even got ovenrise in the last couple of weeks. I can't feed the starter now for 10 days. Too long? Freeze it? It feed it with more flour and less water? Thanks in advance? Cheers, Jw.	You Can Freeze, But,... Jw, you can freeze your starter, but you don't really need to in your case. If you must neglect it for 10 days, put it in the fridge. Then whenever you get back to it, take it out, stir in the hooch, and refresh it as normal. FYI - PR's method for freezing says to freeze it in an airtight cont...
Easy SD I've just begun another trial, this time its the method whereby two weeks worth of dough is autolysed then mixed only briefly then placed in the fridge. A lump is cut off for rising and baking each day. The method requires a slack dough. I mixed 5 kgs bakers flour, 3.3 kgs water, 100gms salt and 250 gms SD ...	Artisan Bread in 5 minutes This sounds like the Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day method, except you are using starter instead of yeast, which I have made that way a few times with their method.
Soliciting your opinions At a friends' advice, I embarked upon a regime to see if I could get my starter to ferment and proof my SD as quickly or near as quick, as instant yeast. As I have mentioned in one or two other posts in and around 'The Fesh Loaf' it involves feeding at 4 hourly intervals for three to four days ...	Hyper Starter Paul, The best my starter has been in terms of doubling was 4 hours at room temp. You aren't really framing a question since you haven't mentioned how much yeast, what hydration or flour types. I'm more interested in developing flavor and not rushing to bake something I know would be better later. Eric
herman sourdough I found a recipe on the King Arthur site for making a herman sourdough from sourdough, milk, flour and sugar. It is an easier way to make the Amish friendship starter that was popular a few years back. It makes a great, moist long keeping cake. There is a book called Best of Sourdough Herman by Dawn...	Herman sourdough Bakerincanada,Sorry, I know nothing about the book or making herman sourdough, but I am very interested in learning more about it. I've seen recipes for the starter and uses for it on a favorite site of mine www.allrecipes.com. You could compare recipes and people leave lots of feedback.Marni
Starter problem Oh my! I had completely forgot, DH and I will be leaving Friday early (for his 50th high school reunion in Austin, Tx), and will return home Sunday pm. Friday will be day 9 for my two starters. I feed one of them each morning and the other morning and evening per their directions. I'm sure everyone ...	Fridge. I would just put it into the fridge.
Rye starter + buckwheat starter Hello all. I started three starters. A basic white flour one. A rye one and a buckwheat one. I followed the instructions that are written up in another post found on this site: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/233. It's day 7 of my starters's lives and the white one is doing well, i.e. b...	Rye and water My rye starter doubles and is filled with air pockets at that stage. I don't use anything by rye flour and water, starting out with 6.4 ounces of rye and 6.4 ounces of water. On day two and thereafter, I use 3.2 ounces of the starter, 3.2 ounces of whole rye, and 3.2 ounces of water. By the third day ...
Is this active enough? I'm fairly new to sourdough baking. I had a starter going pretty good and made a few loaves and then put it in the fridge and now years later am trying to get 'her' going again. I've been feeding it for four days. It smells a little vinegary and it looks like the photos that I just added to my ph...	Re: Active enough Is this the same starter that you had a few years ago and are now feeding to reactivate, or is it a new starter that you are growing and are on day 4 of its life? If it is the original starter, I'd say it is looking good and I would give it a couple of more feedings before baking with it. If it is a ...
Troubleshooting oddly soft sourdough miche Hi everyone,I have a question about a loaf of sourdough that turned out softer and more delicate than I know what to do with, and I actually want to figure out how to give it a bit more strength.I've been baking sourdough breads using a starter I picked up from a local bakery ...	Where is the gluten Where is the gluten development? Lance
my first sourdough bread my first sourdough bread using 5 days old starter raised in sunny Queensland, Australia I am new to sourdough berad. A big thank-you to Susan of wild yeast. I followed her Overnight Ciabatta recipe loosely. But as someone said, "it isn't the recipe that will make or break...so much as ...	Congratulations! Hi, Shiao-Ping. Very nice. And I'm positive your next one will be even better. Of course, the best thing is that your children like it. David
Diastatic Malt Has anyone been able to find kosher diastatic malt? I've looked online but can only find (yikes) 50 lb quanities! Is there a good substitute? Does it make that big of a difference. I see it mentioned everywhere in baking books and blogs.	What are you baking? Do you have a recipe that you plan to bake that calls for diastatic malt? If not, you don't need it.
Vomiting & diarhe	how can you tell if wild yeat is the only living thing in your starter? Greetings I've been making sourdough bread and pizza several times during the last 2 weeks to my 8y and 11y old kids. The 8y complained from diarhea several times, then recently started vomiting repeatedly till he started to faint. I had to take hi...
Lungwort Leavening Looking through an old campcraft book I came across the following entry: LUNGWORT BREAD from the book Camp Cookery by Horace Kephart, published 1910 On the bark of maples, and sometimes of beeches and birches, in the northern woods, there grows a green, broad-leaved lichen variously known as lungwor...	More on Lichens The following was found on Google Books: Mosses and lichens: a popular guide to the identification and study of our commoner mosses and lichens, their uses, and methods of preserving By Nina Lovering Marshall Published by Doubleday, Page, 1907 Original from Harvard University Digitized Feb 8, 2008 327 p...
Bill Wraigh's Sourdough Ciabatta - Hope You Don't Mind Me Reviving an Old Thread Bill Wraith's creation is truly inspiring, and I have spent the better part of the last two weeks wanting a ciabatta like his.. to no avail. Eventually, I settled on a all-white sourdough version and I got the crumb that is somewhat in Bil...	Sounds great as long as you are healthy Sounds great, Gosia, as long as you are healthy :-)! --Pamela
Can starter cause dough breakdown? Hi Everyone, I was so happy with my lively starter but I am getting the feeling that there is something wrong with it. I have had it for about a year now and refreshed it everytime (4:3 flour-to-water) for my sourdough bakes. The last two times I used it, I started off with creating f...	I would suspect that the problem might lie more with the flour and water. Could be the flour is rancid, taste it. Mix up some flour and water without starter and see what happens. Mini
Feeding sourdough rye flour, etc. I've been feeding my newly acquired Danish Rye starter equal parts rye flour and water and it's doubling if not tripling in volume big time. Since I just started reviving this dried starter I figured I'd give it about a week of twice daily feeding in order to develop and activate the c...	Feeding the Beast mizrachi, so many questions! Let me tackle them in order: I've been feeding my newly acquired Danish Rye starter equal parts rye flour and water and it's doubling if not tripling in volume big time. Since I just started reviving this dried starter I figured I'd give it about a week of twice daily fee...
No-Knead Bread I Made 3 loaves today! It came out great! 1)first loaf 100% whole wheat 2)second loaf 50% whole wheat ,50% all-purpose flour3)third loaf 100% all-purpose flour	Beautiful! Beautiful loaves.
Waaaay to Sour! Help! Ok, I am a SD newbie and on my 6th unsuccessful loaf. This last loaf showed the most amount of promise, but I have determined that my start must be waaaay to sour. Everything smells good during the process, but by the time the bread comes out of the oven, you can smell the overpowering sour. Is...	Way toooo sour, Help I see you've posted another Question and didn't get an answer. Well, we won't let you fall through the gaps in the cooling rack... Six loaves! My goodness! That's what I call determination! Good for you! "Way too sour" indicates long rising times and several other things that could be going on...
Switching to firm starter problem I'd been using my 100% starter for a month or so. I would take it out of fridge before weekend and feed a couple of times (over 24 hours) and use it, then back in the fridge until next weekend. I read posts here saying many keep the starter at 75% (1:3:4) so I wanted to try that since ...	I just feed it once My starter is at about 75% and I just feed it once. It takes about 6 to 8 hours to double on the counter. --Pamela
Troubleshooting stoneground flour weirdness I have some delicious white stoneground flour, that occasionally makes an amazingly tasty sourdough loaf. However, more often than not, I am running into a weird problem...I use little water, 60 to 65% hydration, or 300ml water for 500g of flour, and 20g of starter. When I fi...	Just 20g of starter? Are you building a levain or sponge with the starter before getting into making the main dough?20g is not a lot of sourdough culture. What is your method of putting the dough together? Then maybe we can help more.
Vermont Sourdough... What happened? Hi. This is my first post. I followed Hamelman's recipe. I'm not far from KAF and my starter is originally from them, but has been happily living with us for 4 months. I'm pretty sure my problem was either not slashing the dough deep enough or not proofing enough. Am I right? F...	Susan and I were just discussing how pretty your loaf is. Whatever you did, just keep doing it! Now if you want it a little more controlled, try proofing it longer. Mini
Sourdough Ciabatta Pizza recipe? Can you use the Ciabatta recipe for pizza dough? I like to make a pizza once a week and the ciabatta looks like fun to play with. Anyone have any tips on how which sourdough ciabatta recipe converts to pizza easily?	Yes, you certainly can use a Yes, you certainly can use a ciabatta as a pizza dough. I've used this ciabatta recipe (not sourdough though) for pizza a number of times at it is great. It is too slack a dough to toss up in the air to show off for the kids but the results are excellent.
Overactive Starter I'd been worrying about my sourdough starter, because after four days it hadn't really done anything. Then, overnight, it woke up and bubbled and frothed. So I fed it according to the directions for the last stage of a "seed culture" in Reinhart's Whole Grain Breads. It woke up even more, and had ...	Sounds good to me Your starter sounds like it is acting just like it is suppose to. Did you use the pineapple juice? You may be experiencing yeast growth at this point because it is so new. Just keep following the various phases. You can repeat the final phase without any harm. It just takes times for everything to set...
question about the rise and what it means? hi all, it seems that the recipes that ive been using typically go something like this 1. wait till dough doubles in volume 2. divide and preshape, rest 4. final shape 5 rest 6 bake! between steps 2-6, is the dough suppose to double its original volume again? if i just let t...	Rise and proof The rise is usually the bulk fermentation part of the process. During fermentation the dough might double or triple in volume; it sort of depends on the recipe. The proof is when the dough is shaped for baking, e.g., put in a bread pan, shaped freeform, etc. Normally the dough is only allow to go to a ma...
Any hope? Hi: I had to leave my sourdough starter in the shed for Passover and when I went to get it last night it had turned pink and had a ghastly brownish green crumbly crust on parts. Should I start over or is there hope underneath? Thanks!	Ick! Moriah, If it was only a little bit furry, I'd say try to salvage some of the interior portion. Pink is not good, though. I'd dump the whole thing and start over. And next year, have a Gentile friend babysit it for you. Paul
sourdough starter questions OK, I have been thoroughly enjoying this site and the wealth of information available. I am hoping that some of you more experienced bakers can help me sort things out. I have a starter I have been using now for around 9 months, things have been going well but I am in need of some guidance. ...	Have breakfast with it Hi Maggie. Your culture will be more responsive if you don't refrigerate it - especially since you use it often. The only time you want to refrigerate a starter is if you don't plan to use it for a week or longer. Saves on flour. Why not just feed it every morning when you feed yourself breakf...
More Sourdough woes So i posted about a month ago about my sourdough being too acidic and turning into yuck. The dough got really stringy and never rose. So I threw it away and started over. I followed the SOurdough 101 tutorial. After about a week I had a starter that was doubling ever 4-6 hrs. So I thought I was...	Your starter needs to mature If your starter is only a week old, then that explains it. It needs to mature. Keep discarding part of it and feeding it; in another week or two it should gain strength. If it is any consolation to you, I tried to use mine after a week in some SD pizza dough and it didn't rise one inch. --P...
Great Sourdough Article in The Independent (UK) I came across this article today. It has good history and basics of sourdough: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/features/upper-crust-why-sourdough-is-the-best-bread-1669235.html	Interesting Article Thanks for posting it. One word especially caught my eye: locavorism. --Pamela
Experimenting with sourdough. I was making Leader's Sourdough Croissants and had two cups of fermented sponge left over, so I used that to make some whole wheat Double Crusty which has a tsp. of vinegar in it, a curious addition to any sourdough. It came out beautifully, one large loaf instead of the two medium ones I...	Fantastic! These croissants are delicious! Very light and very flaky!
Starter Questions I'm in the process of building a sourdough starter, following the directions in Reinhart's Whole Grain Breads. Based on information I've found here and elsewhere, I'm planning on making it a 100% hydration starter, because as I understand it that will produce a slightly milder flavor. Although I'd b...	When/if you get things going When/if you get things going you will figure out what aschedule works for you. Personally I have a starter I purchased from KAF and I have got it up to speed and now I only feed it when I bake. I go by Nancy Silverton's feeding schedule in her Breads from Labrea Bakery. Some will say her...
Converting Sourdough Starter to Gluten Free Sourdough Starter Hi MembersIf any one has tried converting Sourdough starter to Gluten free sourdough starter?I have tried many ways, but the when I use GF flour after a few days it becomes pink and takes a long time to have any bubbles.Tried with brown rice flour, sorghum f...	Anything is possible What is the purpose of going GF? Just to reduce the amount of gluten?It is possible to do GF sourdough and there have been some posts about it in the last 10 yrs.Use the search box. However, you may get more hits on either celiac-related sites or GF sites. One of our TFL posters will come up using...
Mailing starter A friend of mine would like some of my starter. I have spread some rye starter (watered down to a melted icecream consistency) on a sheet of plastic wrap and set it out to dry. Any tips or traps for me in doing this? She is only a day or two away (NY vs Boston). Should I attempt to mail her a small bal...	I would make a firm starter I would make a firm starter with @ 75% hydration, which is how I keep my starter normally. Give it a fresh feeding, but use ice cold water. Put the starter in a plastic container that will allow it to rise. Tape it shut, but poke a small knive hole to breathe. Mark the plastic container ...
Is your sourdough starter old and ugly? You could always try this. Courtesy of PJ Hamel and King Arthur Flour.	thanks for the link I have a "backup" starter in my fridge that I don't feed very often and to tell the truth, I've been a little hesitant to start it up thinking that it would be too much trouble. Not so apparently! Maybe I'll brave it sometime this week.... Summer
Unbelievable SD! Unbelievable. Just unbelievable! I came into this having no idea what I'm doing and my sourdough now comes out perfect everytime. My starter was free from friends of Carl. I lovingly "feed my baby" [my husband thinks I'm nuts, I'm sure] every 12 hours. It has the most delicious sour taste and grows fan...	When it comes to When it comes to bread......photos are worth a thousand words....can't wait!
Why doesn't my dough rise in oven? Greetings I have a starter that I made at home, and keep in the fridge to make my doughs. It works fine, and when I use in a dough, it doubles in 4 hours, and becomes 4 times its volume in 8 hours. The problem is that, after shaping to make a large pizza, and covering for 2 hours, whe...	Doubles then quadruples? "It works fine, and when I use in a dough, it doubles in 4 hours, and becomes 4 times its volume in 8 hours." Why are you allowing your dough to quadruple its volume? Dough should be doubled (usually around 4 hours), shaped, then allowed to proof again, usually for around 2-4 hours depending on...
Sourdough starter never bubbled after 3 days My sourdough never bubbled after 3 days. I used pineapple juice (canned) and wheat flour. 2 TBSP each, and re-fed for 3 days. Finally I threw it out. Was the canned juice the problem?	Three days was too soon to give up Three days is too soon to give up. My most successful starter took about 5 days before it showed signs of life and 2-3 weeks before it was really going. I know that many here advise using very small quantities of flour and water, but I would personally find it very hard to work with ...
New guy to SD Hi all, my sour dough starter is now going well after nearly two weeks. I have made a couple of loaves already but needed to use some active yeast. However, the starter looks and smells very much more "alive" now so I have just made my first lump of dough using no active yeast at all. I placed the lump...	taste and mix Paul, on the taste: I could not discover a relation between time to rise and flavour. I would not expect the taste to go away when I proofe longer. Wait for other opinions from the real masters on this... Mix: best for what? For looks? Sometimes I have noticed my dough became to soft and I just shaped aga...
Hamelman's 40 Percent Caraway Rye Hamelman's 40 Percent Caraway Rye (Pictures at the bottom) A few weeks ago I bought a bag of Medium Rye flour. Some friends had been touting a local deli's "Rye Bread". This bread was, to my taste, baked with a whiff of light rye flour and an excess of caraway seeds, but I took it as a...	Very nice, David! This is a great recipe, and you executed it perfectly. David
how long a knead 1)I usually knead regular bread for 15-16 minutes when I have used active yeast. Is there any difference in kneading time for sourdough bread ? 2)I've heard the phrase "developing the glutens" what does this mean ? Thanks all. Paul.	Recommendation Hi, Paul. I strongly recommend you read the reference materials here on TFL. They can answer most of your basic questions and define terms for you. Look at the menu on the top of the web page for "Lessons," "FAQs" and "Handbook." David
Splitting rye loaf tops I'm trying to do the Leader Dark Silesian Rye and other rye recipes without consistent success. After about 10 minutes in the oven, I'm getting severe uncontrolled splitting of the tops. I believe my dough hydration is good which results in sticky dough, oven temp is right on, and adequate ste...	Are you scoring the loaves? I just looked at the recipe and it calls for 3 parallel cuts about 1/2 inch deep. Maybe I don't understand your question. --Pamela
Sourdough not sour at all… Hello all, I just started making my own bread recently and tried my hand at making a starte for sourdough. Here's the problem, my sourdough is not sour. According to the website I used to start the starter, it should have a beer like smell when it gets going. My starter does. I followed this ...	Young Starter? I have gathered that younger starters don't have the same oomph as older starters when it comes to complex flavor. One thing you could try would be using a recipe that allows for a long, slow ferment of a portion of your dough in the refrigerator overnight.
Sourdough starter rising only 2cm day 8 Hello,It is my first time attempting making a sourdough starter. I have been using half a cup of water (day old tap water) and a cup of whole wheat flour (great plains brand from Costco).My starter bubbles and rises but except for the second day it never doubled in size. For the ...	Feeding more often Is often counterproductive especially when trying to get a starter to rise more if it's struggling. Your starter is young so give it time. Re-feed only when you see it has peaked and just starts to fall. What is the feeding ratio to starter? You said 1/2 cup water + 1 cup flour but not how much start...
Any suggestions about first time Sourdough starter? I have read that it is best to buy a commercial starter (sourdough) if you are new to baking...as opposed to starting my own. Any advice or suggestions? Early experiences of those doing it awhile? Thank you, Katie	Pineapple Juice Method Every starter I tried before has failed - usually due to something fuzzy growing on top. Once I tried the pineapple juice method I was finally able to get a starter to grow without going all funky on me. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10856/pineapple-juice-solution-part-1
Sourdough rye w/ caraway comes out FLAT....! I have been having the WORST LUCK lately making sourdough rye w/ caraway seeds in our commercial wood-fired oven lately! We have been trying to adopt Dan Leader's formula to larger batches (20kg) in a commercial environment. The sourdough starter is made over three builds, t...	Hi Jim, First, I'm terribly Hi Jim, First, I'm terribly sorry to hear about the flat caraway rye loaves )-; I've never baked Leader's caraway rye, so I cannot comment on the particular recipe, but perhaps you can offer some more details (time and temperature) about your sourdough build? To me, your final build sounds q...
Seed Culture gone awry? I started a rye seed culture on Saturday, using Reinhart's method in BBA. Day 1 it looked like a lump of playdough. I did the Day 2 additions and, despite the note in the book that I'd likely see no more than a 50% rise, the thing doubled. I discarded half (eyeballed it as the batteries on my sc...	patience Just have patience. It is common for a new starter to rise like that, then not at all. It usually takes a couple weeks to get the starter to be reliable enough to bake with. I am just getting back into bread, so I don't have a sourdough starter anymore to show off. Personally I am going to try the Glezer meth...
Billowy Sourdough Cinnamon rolls with Cream Cheese Frosting Hi there, I am new to the blog. I saw the recipe for the Billowy Sourdough Cinnamon Roll with Cream Cheese Frosting and thought oh my goodness these looked awesome. I am just a ok baker and never have tackled sourdough starter let alone cinnamon rolls made wit...	SD cinn rolls Hey Sweet Bites and plidov, I am very glad to hear that you were able to follow my recipe with good results. I agree they took a lot of time but were worth the effort, especially if you carried out each step over a couple of days, then it didn't seem like too much active work. A great project for a cold w...
Is it Gummy Dough or me? Based on some feedback here as well, I refreshed my lively white starter only once after having used it last weekend and set out to make a country-walnut sourdough bread. I refreshed the starter on Thursday night and used it to make the preferment on Friday night. I am following C&C basic sourd...	That looks Fairly similar to what I've had with my rye doughs - but I've been using a MUCH higher percentage of rye than that - close to 50%. Rye, especially, does have a much stronger scent as well, but it shouldn't smell rancid. I seem to remember that both whole wheat and especially rye also have more wild yeast on ...
what's a sponge? and other questions for a newbie. What's a sponge? How about a soaker? How do I know what hydration my starter is? There are so many terms that Im not familiar with! I haven't seen the definition of these terms in anything I've read about. Do most sourdough recipes call for wheat flour? Is it okay to u...	Blind Surgeons Jean, why don't you post the recipe you are working on so we can have a look at it. That way we might be able to come up with some solutions for you. Otherwise we are kind of like blind surgeons performing an operation. --Pamela
Refreshing only once- enough? I have been baking breads using my white, almost 100% starter, somewhat regularly. Every weekend or every other weekend... I haven't used it since last Saturday and I wanted to use it again this weekend. Typically, I refresh it at least twice before I use it in a formula. Due to my schedul...	Walnut is a heavy bread To ensure a rise you might want to add some instant yeast 2 hours before the end of the sourdough bulk rise. Just flatten it out and sprinkle with instant. Roll up and knead for a minute. Cover and finish bulk rising. After the two hours are up, shape and let rise as for yeasted breads. A ...
Creating and Refreshing a Starter for a Specific Recipe I am getting ready to bake Paul Merry's French country bread from Country Breads of the World by L. Collister & A. Blake and I can see that the baker builds the starter from the scratch for three days, refreshes it twice, over the following two days and then creat...	I'd give it try! I'd give it a try. What do you have do lose except a little flour? I used PR's starter in a Hamelman SD bread (Lindy D said it would be fine) and it seems to have worked like a charm. Go for it. --Pamela
Ratio Starter to Biga Ingredient I finally got a starter that I'm satisfied with. It's that Pineapple juice process (which works very well) Now I need to add some of it to the biga preparation but I haven't the slightest idea of what ratio to use. Any experienced recommendations appreciated.	Good Question I've always wondered this also... What I've been doing is weighing out about 4 oz of my starter, then add this to my Soaker or Sponge the day before making my bread. This has worked for me. I also use some bread yeast to my loaves to help in the fermenting process during rise. I will say that my recent ...
Where I am now Hi Everybody, I started browsing this site and getting into artisan bread baking in August. Many people have contributed to my bread journey and I just wanted to post an update about where I am now with bread. I generally bake every two days. I only use wild yeast. I was feeding my starter twice a day...	Hi Pablo Hi Pablo, nice to hear from you! Sounds like your baking is doing great! Sylvia
Newbie type question about levain Hi there! For sourdough recipes that call for a levain, are you using starter straight from the fridge that hasn't been built? So the levain is essentially the build? Thanks if anyone can clarify that for me. I've only done basic recipes where i use a starter that i have fed and do...	I can only speak for myself For a levain I use starter straight from the fridge. I know some people like to feed a few times before moving onto the levain but for myself one build works just fine. If you think about it the levain is the first build and the final dough the second! If simple works and has perfect results...
Sourdough Pancakes with Soy milk? I want to try the KAF sourdough waffle recipe but don't have a waffle iron, nor do I have buttermilk :) The recipe calls for mixing and leaving buttermilk mixture at room temperature overnight...I'm surprised you can safely do that - with the Soy milk substitute I'm guessing I'll have ...	I have been contemplating on I have been contemplating on a waffle iron as well. Since I got the sourdough starter going, we have been eating a lot of pancakes. A little change will be nice. Please let us know how it turned out and I would like to give it a try.
Update - First Ever Sourdough and It Failed - Update Well, I almost sent my starter down the drain. After reading all the responses to my original post I decided to get it out of the refrigerator and work with it. I fed it twice a day for several days. Its whole character changed. I began to have what others were descr...	Nice looking loaves! Hi Jenady, Nice looking loaves you got there. It's so much more fun when it turns into bread, isn't it? David
How long will 'pre-dough' keep? So, I made my first loaf of sourdough today - wasn't entirely happy with it. Not quite sour enough for my tastes and didn't get quite the rise I had hoped for. I can identify any number of things that weren't optimal - including my fire alarm going off when I removed the upturned metal m...	It should be okay. I've started sourdough primary batters, or pre-dough, the night before and not got back to it until quite late the next day, and I've left them out, not in the fridge; they still come out fine. The fridge should slow everything down, and it may take longer to rise when you finally do get around to m...
"Seed Culture" vs. "Starter" I am using Reinhart's method (based on Debra Wink's 'Pineapple Juice Solution') from the Whole Grain Breads book. I've completed the phases of the seed culture, but now I am looking at the Mother Starter section on pg 67. Again, I'm going to be faced with a HUGE amount of starter! What, exa...	Small amounts give good results My starter is doing very well. I feed it once a day and keep the hydration at 125%. Each feeding is 15 g culture, 93 g water, 75 g bread flour. I do two feedings the day before I build the final levain for my doughs. I find this to be quite economcal. It seems from what I read on TF...
First loaves with my SFBI Brotforms I got them this week and what a great price from SFBI http://www.sfbi.com/baking_supplies.html I paid $35 for the pair of 1.5 lb. which is great as Sur La Table has them for $29.95 each. Anyway on to the bread, I made 2 loaves of teh country white from Silverton's book. It is a ba...	Nice loaves - love the Nice loaves - love the cookbook background!
Is a 100% rye starter a thicker consistency than AP flour? I just made a rye flour based starter this week with 100% by weight proportions and it seems very thick compared to my AP based starters. I like working with the thinner consistency starters. Is this typical and do rye starters usually go with a higher hydratio...	hold on, I'll go check... Oh dear, you are right, my 100% rye is thick so that means I stir up my starter with a much higher % a lot more. Comes out to 150% !!! wow ...thanks. That means I take out a tablespoon of firm starter and add 150g water and 75g rye flour and let it sit overnight. Does that help? I suppo...
Hydration % question I'm new with sourdough and awful at math, it makes a wonderful combination for it. I have a question for converting a wet starter to a firm starter. If my starter is at 100% hydration, that means I am feeding it equal parts flour and water....got that. However, I am getting confused as to how to...	hi i just wanted to tell you hi i just wanted to tell you there's a site which explains all that very simply and clearly. its: wildyeastblog.com there's a baker's percentage tutorial thats excellent and part four is all about sourdoughs. hope this helps.
100% Whole Wheat Sourdough--A Saga and a Question When I first made my sourdough starter, and it appeared strong enough to use, I began my baking cautiously, with a couple of loaves in my bread machine. The first was a basic white bread from a sourdough book I found on our bookshelf at home. I simply scaled it for m...	Dave, I'll give this one a Dave, I'll give this one a try !!! I share a story a bit different than yours in the sequence of events but very similar in the elements involved. I took the turn towards whole wheat sourdough a few years ago but approached it mostly from the trial and error plan. All the reading on vario...
Dough too elastic to work with... Making bagels or challah...the process of forming the dough into 'ropes' is brutal..a real battle. It seems to have a mind of its own. It springs and shrinks, nothing like I see in the youtube 'how tos'.... I try and coax it into an even rope like shape and it fights me! I end up with ...	Reading your post it occurs Reading your post it occurs to me I'm being a little rough on the dough ...I'll try being a little more gentle..thanks
Is something wrong? So, I have this wonderful starter. It is established and I have made wonderful english muffins with it and it's awesome. I keep it at room temp, and feed it on a 1:1:1 every 12 hours and it usually more then doubles on that, very active, very happy. I wanted to try BBA's basic sourdough, so I took...	Re: Is something wrong? It is fine, but the cooler temps will slow your starter down a lot. Put it in a warmer place and it will perk up. Incdidentally, when you make bread dough it is actually better for the dough to proof at a cooler temperature and for a longer time because it develops the flavor more. You are not a...
Full of holes I heard a hilarious comment today!One of my friends was picking up three loaves as well as some sourdough starter. He mentioned it was for a friend who had been given some starter and a loaf from someone else. For some reason, the starter didn’t work for her and she wasn’t very happy with the loaf she got...	Lol funny! I love my bread Lol funny! I love my bread full of holes. It's lower calories too?My friend likes a tighter crumb because he doesn't like spread falling out of his sandwiches .
Lactobacillus in Starts In my recent research on start chemistry, I read that lactobacillus is one of the main bacteria that is captured in a start to produce a good start. If that is true, would it be beneficial to your start to add a few granules of lactobacillus? I should probably just give it a try once I've gott...	Could be fun.... Hi there: I'm not sure adding a dose of Lactobacillus to your starter is really a good idea. Remember, they are acid-producing bacteria, and acid inhibits yeast growth. Since you're really aiming for a nicely symbiotic, happily coexisting mixture of yeast AND bacteria, artifically tipping the scales ...
Speaking of Lactobacilli..... Hi all: Just a very geeky fyi for those who are microbiologically curious... A recent paper published in the Journal of Applied Microbiology looked at the various species of Lactobacillus in the bakery environments of 2 artisan bakeries in Belgium (Scheirlinck et al., 2009). They took sam...	That does it Some proof that bacteria are found simply floating in the air. Otherwise, how would they be identifying L. sanfranciscensis at so many locations over the world?
How to Reconstitute a Mail-Order Starter? I sent away for a free oregon trail sourdough starter with which to embark on my sourdough journey. (I read in a forum that it is better to start baking sourdough with a stable start to see what one looks like before attempting your own) I got mine in the mail today, and open...	Was it Carl Griffith's Oregon Trail http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/OTbrochure.html
Sourdough Starter I have just made Danish Rye bread, and the recipe says to put 100gms of the dough, into a jar, cover wilth salt and store in the fridge. When next I bake, what do I do with the salt, wash it off, use some or what? Thank you.	Salt covered starter Sounds interesting. I would cover with flour but salt? ....hmmmm. I would guess the salt pulls moisture out of the dough creating a protective thicker skin around the dough ball. Sounds like an interesting long time conservation method. When ready to use, I would cut the starter open and use st...
What is this yellow puddle in my starter? My wild yeast starter has been going very well for a couple of weeks now. I have used it to make breads, cakes, and pancakes. I usually keep one cup in the fridge and feed it a couple times during the week then use it for baking at the weekend. I got it out today and was re...	Yellow stuff I must say this about yellow stuff. Actually I want to say about the plastic container it's kept in. I would not use it. Especially if something else ever occupied the container. Plastic is porus. Once something gets put in it it is there forever. No matter what you do. My two friends one a nurse and the o...
Flour for Carl Griffiths Oregon Trail Starter I'm about to activate my Carl Griffiths Oregon Trail mail order starter and was wondering if it mattered what kind of flour I activate it with. (I only have enough start to try once, and if it doesn't work I have to wait 3 weeks to get another one, so I'm nervous) I have ...	Flour I always start of with organic all purpose flour. I do this to avoid adding additional yeasts and bacteria which might compete with your starter.
To Feed or Not to Feed... I started a spelt seed culture using the pineapple juice method (but used orange juice) with the directions/proportions listed in Reinhart's "Whole Grain Breads" book, starting on pg 61. Day 1 was fairly uneventful. Aerated 3 times as recommended, but otherwise left it alone. Day 3 was also ...	Re: to feed or not to feed Just how much is a "huge feeding"? I wouldn't feed it more than 2 x the amount of the original saved starter (after discard) until it gets established and active. Other than that, yes, I would feed on schedule.
apple starter from pain aux pommes (village baker) hi, is anyone familiar with this recipe from the village baker? this is my first try. i made the apple starter: 1 med. sized apple chopped, 3 Tbsp sugar, 2 Tbsp water. so far it is 6 days old. ortiz says to leave it 8 - 10 days. however, i already noticed some furry st...	Hats off to you I don't have the book, Rolls, but Google's book search took me right to the recipe. My hat is off to anyone who will bake a loaf of bread that takes two weeks to produce! Apparently the mold/fungus is normal as Oritz says to just remove it and you're good to go so long as you have 3/4 of the mixture le...
What's the difference - starter vs poolish? What's the difference between a sourdough starter and a sourdough poolish? Appreciate any input. :) somgeeek	None, but that's not typical None, but that's not typical usage. "Sourdough Starter" usually refers to a preferment that only contains wild yeast and bacteria (sourdough). "Poolish" usually refers to a preferment that only contains commercial yeast.

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