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"Hibernating" A Starter I have a sourdough starter that I feed with bread flour. However I pretty much only bake whole wheat bread and so I have wanted to begin using a whole wheat starter for 100% whole wheat loaves. I only bake for myself so using a new starter means that my current one will get little to no use. I d...	Sleeping Starter I've just read here, someplace, that after two years of no feeds, a starter was brought back to ready, with a couple of feeds. Not overnight, but in a week or two.
stoneground rye flour - will it ruin my sour? Hi all, This is my first post, and I'm very new to sourdough. I've been making bread with rye sour for about a month, and just realized that I made a mistake by feeding my starter stone ground rye flour. It is not expanding, and is very dry. I have added extra water to h...	You should be fine.. The stone ground flour will not hurt the starter. I use fresh ground rye berries out of my hand mill and have yet to have it cause a problem to my starter. I feed my starter just about anything i have at the moment. If it is really dry and you keep a 100% hydration or a liquid starter than add m...
Yeast to Sourdough Conversion Converted Mom's Potica recipe from yeast to sourdough. Turned out, finally, pretty good. Did run into a problem: the rise.Recipe wanted "1 pkg yeast" dissolved in 1/4c water. Made levain from 25g active starter, 50 g each flour & water. Reduced liquids & flour 75g each. First rise took ove...	What temperature did you What temperature did you proof it at? I generally proof at 80f-85f in my oven with the light on. Proofing at a warmer temperature would greatly reduce the rise time. Hope this helps!
Using my starter I've become quite comfortable with the NYT no-knead bread. I've baked it several dozen times now and I like the no-worries pace of making it. I had noticed though that longer rise times (24+ hours) made for a much more interesting bread and, guessing that it is souring somewhat, I set off to try a sou...	On day two It's vastly unlikely you have "starter" yet; what you're seeing is more likely to be bacterial activity that will die off fast. Keep at it, discard and feed as per instructions (hopefully good ones) and you'll probably see the fluffy batter deflate then do nothing for several days. Then it will start to slow...
Retarding process This isn't necessarily a question specific to the sourdough forum, but with the wealth of knowledge, expertise, experience, individuals and their generosity found here in this discussion space, answers find their way to our needs-specific inquiries. (Does that make sense???? Haven't had lunch yet!!)...	Yes it should That is an idea to ponder. In theory is would work as you said. But it seems precarious to take loaves back and forth like that. What will they be shaped in? Pans? What about making the dough the night before. Transfering the dough in it's cool state, taking it to where it would be baked, shaped and ...
AB in 5 minutes a day no knead sourdough recipe? Does anyone have a recipe for sourdough bread using the AB in 5 minutes a day no knead method? JayC	Recipe Why don't you buy the book?
Do I need more Starter I began my first starter yesterday. I usually don't bake bread more than once a week and then only one or two loaves, so figured I don't need a lot of starter. Plus, as this is an experiment, I may decide I don't want to carry on using a starter. I have used 50g flour, (half bread flour/half wh...	If you now have 100g of If you now have 100g of starter, you might want to feed it 50g of water, and 50g of flour. This will be a 2:1:1 (starter:flour:water) feeding, which could help get it more active from its recent start. You might have to start to throwing away half of your starter before feeding so it doesn't g...
Starter ready and you're not? This has happened to me more than once so I'd like to get some advice. What should I do if I've done my levain builds and the starter is ready before I'm able to use it? Perhaps something came up, or like today, I decided to make something requiring a soaker and the starter is peaked/ready...	You can never overfeed a starter. WhenI can't bake as planned, I leave my ready levain at room temperature, throw away some, and add back flour and water, at the right hydration, to replace the discard. Discarding half makes mine good for another eight hours or so, but I've used one three hours after feeding it with go...
Dehydrating Starters I am sure it has been mentioned here before ( newbie question ) . Has anybody spread their starters out on some wax or parchment in there food dehydrator and preserved it (dryed) for future use ? I know you would have to check out the heat tempatures in various brands. Just a thought !	Yup But didn't bother with the dehydrator. You will want to refresh it first if the dehydrating takes longer than 12 hours. If you have arid climate or a dry house, just spread it out where the bugs can't get to it. More to find in the search engine under: drying starters or dried starters I find if they are c...
How long is too long? I have a sourdough starter which I have been using for awhile. It makes a nice loaf, though it is more of an artisan white bread than sourdough. I have been trying to make a new sourdough starter, using several of the methods on this forum (ie. pineapple juice, rye, whole wheat, etc), but none s...	Out of all flours I made Out of all flours I made ferment (rye, durum, white soft wheat, wholemeal wheat, spelt, rice, buckwheat and corn) eventually all starters came to life, but invariably white wheat flour took much longer than the others, up to 4 days. Have patience and perseverate, you will surely succeed. In ord...
Major Deflation Issues I have an Amish Potato Starter I've had about 3 months. The first time I baked using it it made 3 beautiful loaves. From them on, the dough makes up the same, rises just fine, nice and high, but as soon as I put it in the oven it deflates. I'm telling you I put them in go gently and close the doo...	Try putting the loaf in the oven earlier These are all descriptions of an overrisen or overproofed dough. I know, I like to watch the dough rise too, but you can stop it anytime you like. If you proof for one hour, get it into the oven at the half hour mark. If you proof for 2 hrs, try 1 1/2 hrs. or sooner. Don't ...
Thanks to you... ..I was able to build this: No the angel figure, just the bread. :) Firt time I've tried a batard and I like how it came out. I have been making boules all along so far, because this type of shape has been throwing me off since the beginning, but I gave it one more try and this was my result. I thin...	Beautiful loaf! Isn't that a great feeling? It looks scrumptious!
newbie confusion I have been baking yeast breads for decades. Now I want to try using a starter. I have been perusing this site for days and am so confused as there is so much conflicting advice. I like to make, at least partial, whole wheat bread. I want to, initially, end up with a mild sour dough. I want someth...	One step at a time Welcome to TFL, Pollyana. For questions one through four: Here's a pretty foolproof method of creating a levain (a/k/a starter): http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2 As to question five, when you get to the point when your levain is strong enough to raise a loaf of...
Initial Proliferation - Yeast vs LAB When a starter or levain begins fermentation is the yeast or the LAB first to start fermentation?I am interested is exploring the young levain. Initial experimentation has produced a stronger dough over the same conditions of fermentation compared to a matured levain.One concern is ...	I believe the LAB are active I believe the LAB are active first. If this is the case is my goal benefitted or hindered if bran or whole grain is used in the levain to buffer the PH, thus allows more LAB and the resulting acids to multiply?These types of questions have a way of leading me down deep hole. <LOL>
Whole Wheat/Rye dead I had set our taste buds to fresh wheat/rye bread with sauerkraut and corned beef. Doggonit. The dough didn't rise at all. I usually have great success with the 1.2.3 step but wanted to substitute white/bread flour for 60% wheat and 40% rye. Did the resting, the folding, the overnite retard, and t...	Time to wet some instant yeast and work it into the dough. It's been 8 hours, has it risen on its own yet now that it has warmed up?
100% hydration not rising... Hey everyone. I've got some experience baking bread in the industry, but am struggling with my at-home sourdoughs. I started a 100% hydration sourdough (by weight, of course) a week ago with unbleached white flour, and have been feeding it regularly ever since. The starter clearly has ac...	tell us exactly how you feed it Do you discard first or are you adding to an existing starter making it bigger? How much do you start with, and how much are you feeding? What is the temperature?
Pain de Compagne with a levain I just made a recipe from Bernard Clayton's new complete bread book called Madame Doz Pain de Compagne. It calls for a starter made with flour, yeast, buttermilk and vinegar. That sits for twelve hours - then add whole wheat, wheat germ and white flour and water which sits for another...	Pain de Compagne Some of the forum's more experienced bakers might have more insight into your question, but here is my understanding of your confusion. First, I have Clayton's book and have read the recipe and his introduction of the 99 year old Madame Doz. He unfortunately uses the term "starter" as a precursor to th...
Stone Ground Rye Flour Can stone ground rye be used to start a starter, or would you need to use medium rye flour?	Stone Ground Will Work I have successfully started sourdough starters with stone ground rye flour.
Hamelmans (BREAD) Vermont Sourdough Recipe I am new to the sourdough thing, any how in Hamelmans book BREAD he mentions to adjust the hydration. I have followed the recipe and I do understand the bakers percentages however I am a little confused in the adjusting the hydration part. The banguettes are in the final ferme...	hydration Even detailed recipes found in expert books such as Hammelman's 'Bread' will need marginal tweeking in in order to get a good finished product. When refering to 'adjusting the hydration', the author implies making slight changes in flour or water quantity in order to get the desired dough consistency. This is...
What's next? I've just done the day 6 feeding on my starter I can't really tell if it smells yeasty yet but it is definitely expanding and it looks quite bubbly and alive. My questin is do I keep feeding it once a day or do I start feeding it more often? Also do I keep feeding it the same amount which is currently 2:1:...	Feeding Starter You can keep your current ratio, but you'll have to feed it more often, probably 2-3 times a day. If you up the ratio to 1:1:1 or 1:2:2, it will take longer to double (because you are adding more flour), so it will not have to be fed quite as often. If you keep it at room temperature, you're still going...
Starters & Discards Are you supposed to discard half of your refrigerated starter, then fee the remaining 1/2 cup of water and 1 cup of flour? If so, then you leave it out for about 12 hours and refrigerate it until you need to feed it again? Regqrding the discard, can this be used in a recipe? If so, does this also...	Try keeping a smaller starter First of all, you can set aside your discard in the fridge for making sourdough pancakes or english muffins for your breakfasts. You can also put the discard in a compost pile if you have one. Other members save up their discard to try baking a loaf. It's a lot easier if you keep a smaller...
Gluten and sourdough breads I'm making my first sourdough loaf this morning. While I was looking thru my recipes, I noticed many of them called for bread flour. I can't find bread flour around here that has a protein content any higher than my AP flour. I like to bake with whole wheat flour, so, between that and the AP...	I'm also curious I also made my very first sourdough bread last week using this recipe: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/11 I didn't have any bread flour, so I used all AP four with about 2 TBSP of gluten. It came out beautifully, but I don't know if it would've performed the same way if I had not added any gluten. Sin...
Sourdough pan bread.. darn thing looks weird! I know this topic has been covered before, but I can't seem to find an answer to my particular problem. You all have helped me go from flat, blah bread a couple months ago to some really fantastic stuff, so I thought maybe I could reach out to you again. All I'm looking to ...	Stretch and fold needed. Try changing the method you use. Check into correct dough weight to pan size. Maybe the pan is too big for the amount of dough. Think of raising the loaf as one long step interrupted with stretch and folds done while it rises. This gives a tighter structure to your loaf and controls those bi...
acrid smelling whole wheat starter I made a starter over 5 days around 6 weeks ago with whole wheat flour and water and later added bread flour and water. I made several breads with it. It came out pretty well but not hugely sour. I left around 3/4 cups in the refrigerator for a few weeks, and took it out yesterda...	Don't think of it as wasting flour It is very unlikely that your starter has spoiled. You don't say how much water it contains, or how long you left it. Both make a difference. If you feed it once or twice more, starting each time with just a small part (say 10 or 20 grams) of the original it will almost certainly boun...
Bulk Fermentation - When is it "done"? How can you tell when bulk fermentation is done? I haven't been able to find anything conclusive regarding this. Most recipes give a time window, but I have no idea what this is based off. How much the dough has risen seems to be a measuring point, but then again I believe this de...	Fermentation progress I believe the fermentation stage is for the yeast to eat its way through the available 'food' and turn it into whatever it produces. One of these things is gas, so the presence of bubbles in the dough is a good sign of it being 'done'. I like to ferment my dough in clear containers so I can look a...
new starter good for.... Please forgive me if I don't use the right terms.... I'm new to this.... I started a starter a few weeks ago using the grape method; it didn't work - mold developed. I started a starter a week ago using whole wheat flour and pineapple juice. I got it to the point where last night it doubled in ...	If the starter is doubling If the starter is doubling (when it's fed) within a few hours, I think it's active enough to bake. My starter took 7 days to develop and I baked on the 8th day with great results. Good luck!
Patience and Air I'm new to this site and making/growing/nurturing sourdough starters. I've been reading a lot about the starter problems that many people have been discussing here, and until today, I was one of them. I started my starter using raisin water and rye flour excatly a week ago. Within the first 24 hours, I...	Given the nature of my very Given the nature of my very recent post, I will be watching this thread with great interest!
No Knead - Whole Grain Testing OK, as the remaining three starters duke it out for the prize of getting to stick around, here is the plan. I want to use the discard to build a recipe process to make a nice sour, no knead, whole grain or something like it SD bread. Long fermentation of 12 to 24 hours or more is fine wit...	Why the salt? While you can use salt in a starter, it's more commonly used in a very small amount to slow down the fermentation rather than as a required ingredient.
Help please! Weak starter needs a boost! Time sensitive! I caught wild yeast and started my own starter over 2 years ago using the recipe on this site. I've been so pleased! When not making bread, I normally feed it every 2 wks, always keeping it in fridge except for the time I allow it to rise overnight after the fee...	Simple: give it a shot of rye Of the flour variety, that is. That usually helps perk up sluggish starters. Use 20% to 30% rye in your normal flour feeding. Also, you may want to cut back on the water ratio. Using a VOLUME measure of equal flour to water means your starter is rather high hydration. That in turn means th...
Is there a general rule of thumb to convert to a sponge recipe? I generally make WW recipes that mix all ingredients,rise overnight in refrig and bake the next day or do a short autolyse and then mix/bake, in order to fully hydrate the WW.I use sourdough with a small amount of instant yeast for these loaves. SO, is the...	Beranbaum's formula... In The Bread Bible, Rose Levy Beranbaum suggests this general formula for converting a recipe to using a sponge: combine all the liquid, 40% of the flour, and a little less than half the yeast. Stir with whisk for 2 minutes, scrape down the sides of the bowl, then "blanket" the sponge with the re...
sadness....is my mother starter dead? help! uh oh.... not sure if i killed it. i have a stiff wild seed starter from Peter Reinhardts artisan breads everyday recipe. Seemed to be doing fine. even made a few great loaves. First time i refreshed it after being in the fridge- everything was great- doubled nicely....a...	i bet you can revive it I doubt the yeast are dead, unless you exposed it to extremes of temperature. I only killed my started once, by leaving it at room temperature without food or water for a week. (I knew it was well and truly dead because of its orangey colour and disgusting smell.) Keep it out of the fridge, feed...
The easiest, no brainer way to start a Sourdough starter I hope I am not breaking any taboos with this post. I asked in another forum about how to make sourdough breads and was given this link. Being not very creative I named him Seymour as in "Feed me Seymour" I started him about 5 months ago and followed direction...	There is no taboo against success. Did you do at least one feeding to activate Seymour before mixing him in the final dough? Healthy starters are resilient. Maybe Seymour would have been a better performer if he'd been fed more often, but it sounds like he got the job done. I sometimes don't feed my refrigerated starte...
Whey starter I make my own yogurt and usually end up freezing the whey I strain off. Yesterday I decided , hmm I wonder if I can make a starter with it? I used 100% hydration and in an hour or so it was active! I fed it about 3 times before I went to bed and this morning it was beautiful fragrant and bubbly. Does anyo...	Whey starter It wouldn't hurt to try, but I suspect it's not going to do much for your bread. A sourdough starter is a combination of yeast and bacteria, and, in yogurt, it's just bacteria and, if I recall correctly, they're usually different strains than those found in a starter. But heck, what have you got to lose ex...
OK, one more question: Vollkornbrot Anybody tried Daniel Leader's? Whereas he describes a batter-like dough, mine is more like concrete. I have had success with same starter on dreikornbrot and Silesian rye.	And another thing. I assume And another thing. I assume the dough should come close to the top of the loaf pan since Leaders says it won't rise much, just dome, and implies that if you don't cover it during baking, it will come over the top of the pan. My dough fills only half the pan.
Wondering if more patience is in order I'm on my first sourdough loaf utilizing my 2-week old starter. I built the starter using THIS process, converting to 100% hydration for ease of use. The starter looks and smells great and responds vigorously to feeding. I decided to test it out so yeaterday afternoon I did a f...	Sourdough and Patience Hello Fly, Congrats on your rocking starter keep feeding it and it will make you happy. Two hours for comerical yeast is a long time. Two hours for sourdough is not much time. The Crusty Rye Rolls I just made had a final ferment time of 16 hours. My everyday sourdough ranges between 6 to 10 hou...
What say you? So I'm making this Greek style starter. Nothing too complicated about it. Instructions are simple! 1: soak some basil leaves in warm water overnight.2: make a starter the usual way using basil water for the first feed then switch to plain water.Soaked some fresh basil leaves for 24 hours then mixed a 125%...	I had a wild child once I had a wild child starter once. I was making several starters at the same time and even with the same flour and water, one of them took off running from the start. It didn't live long-it was almost like I couldn't feed it enough and it did NOT like living in the refrigerator between bakes. It a...
Sourdough vs sweet dough starter New at baking and would like to make an authentic panettone. I do not want to spend a month making the sweet dough starter. can I use sourdough starter and convert it to sweet bread starter? How would I accomplish this. I see I can buy sourdough starter from kingarthur's site. I do n...	Sour doesn't mean sour "Sour" in sourdough means fermented. Like in "Sourkraut" which is fermented cabbage, sourdough is fermented dough. It doesn't mean "sour" as in bitter or acidic. Although sourdough can be acidic as the famed San Francisco sourdough is. But many un-sour breads are made with sourdough. You could al...
Converting scale measurements to cups/spoons I'm a little panicked right now. The batteries died on my scales and I've got to make San Joaquin sourdough for tomorrow night's guests--provided we're all dug out from the blizzard by then--using this recipe: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/12383/san-joaquin-sourdough If ...	Professional Cook Books or Google My Chef Book has it, though you can find them on Google under conversion tables.
Starting a Starter - The Transition More out of curiosity than anything else, I've been playing around with a number of starters. OJ/rye. Water/rye. There seems to be a common theme running in these efforts, and if it has happened to me so often, I figure others might have the same problem (or events). It shows up as a...	I think It will work but slow. Same as you I conclude that Its a culture shock that your starters are still young to be given too much that their activity is affected.
San Francisco Sourdough with Spelt Flour Since I got some spelt flour at home, and I do like the nutty flavor it brings, I decided to replace some of the white flour with spelt flour in the recipe. Due to my work/life schedule, I wasn't able to follow the time schedule used in the book (Reinhart's Crust and Crumb), bu...	Pretty breads, M2 And I'd guess they taste as good as they look. Paul
Was my starter too warm? In an earlier post "Where did I go wrong," I discussed a sourdough problem and stated that it was at 75 degrees Farenheit. Turns out my oven with just the light on (which is where I have to put it on winter nights) gets closer to 85. Could that be too warm? If I leave it at 60, will it just tak...	Sourdough and temperature Stop, don't sweat it, you haven't done anything wrong. At 85 F, your starter is going to town in a fast way, especially if you have a hydration level of 100%. Even with a lower hydration, say 70%, the yeast beasts will be working away and eating up their food. However, the starter is still ali...
Proofing the starter I am new to this...But trying. I just got my starter going with granules purchased online. The recipe that came with the granules is what is very confusing - when comparing it to other recipes I have read. After the starter is active you proof the starter with 1 cup flour and 1 cup water to set ...	Welcome, frogdog. Where did you buy the starter? Are the directions you wrote about a recipe for making bread? It sounds as if you are supposed to make a preferment, but the instruction to proof the starter is odd.
Sourdough Question Reading Debra's method of starting a sourdough starter, she mentioned that on some cases using flour and water to start your starter may grow bad bacterias during the second day of the starter. Now I want to ask if I have a starter and I fed it with the ratio of 1:2:2 (s:w:f), How will I know if on t...	It will flatten out and not rise again The "false rise" bacteria are only good for one round and once they're done their expanding thing, the starter deflates and remains flat for several days. It may also stink like crazy. You keep doing the normal feeds as stated and you may see bubbles in the starter in a few more d...
Slight pink pinpoints on sourdough right before going into oven I just baked 2 loaves of Eric Kastel sourdough (from p.221 in his new Artisan Breads). I've baked this recipe a couple times over the last 2 weeks and it's turned out exceptional. I followed Kastel's instructions to ferment and retard the loaves in the f...	pink spots The only pink food contaminents I can think of are a bacterium called Serratia, or a Fusarium fungus. Neither of these is dangerous if you have a normal immune system. Nor are they likely to survive being cooked to ~200F, so I think you're safe. Patsy
Lalvain "French Sourdough" Starter from King Arthur? Hi, Sourdough fans, I'm fairly new with the Sourdough aspect of bread-baking, but I confess I've become obsessed. I have tried to make my own 'wild yeast starter' without a lot of luck, but I continue to try. I have also baked a few loaves of Levain style bread usi...	Lalvain du Jour starters I have worked a little with these in the past. According to the Lallemand company who supplies them, they are intended to be used immediately to provide a specific type of sourdough taste to bread without having to maintain a starter. They are not intended for use to start a culture. The Lal...
Baking in a cast iron pot I have recently been baking all my round sourdough loaves in a cast iron pot and had really good results: an excellent crumb and really good crust. Short of a wood fired oven it gives the best results I've ever had. But one thing I still haven't mastered is how to get dough into the pot withou...	Hi, can you tell me if your Hi, can you tell me if your pot has think bottom and sides? I have a couple of monoblock cast iron pots that are 1cm thinck on all sides, but I never thought that they would fit well for baking bread. What does cast iron bring to baking? Thanks.
ISO Advice for Better Crumb Hi folks - I've seen a lot of good advice on this forum, and so I'm hoping folks have some advice for me as well. I've been baking bread for several years, but only over the past year have become more "disciplined" about my approach. When I set out to make bread, my goal is always something ...	What are you talking about? This is great! What you could do is get a sharper knife so the cuts would be cleaner. Then it would look even better in pictures. :-)
replacing buttermilk with sourdough Hello all, this is my first post in the forum. It's a question I've been wondering about and it seems here might be a good place to ask. This may or may not technically be a sourdough bread I'm talking about but it includes sourdough starter so I thought I'd put it in this forum. H...	Funny your should ask... I just did almost that last night! I wanted to try a different banana bread. (I make some almost every week and wanted a change) I used this recipe with these changes- I doubled the recipe but used the same amount of fat, I also doubled the bananas and used chocolate chips instead of nuts. ...
Sourdough in chocolate cake? I'fe found an old sourdough cookbook I'd forgot I had, and there's a recipe for sourdough chocolate cake, sourdough cookies, sourdough sweets. Why? I can see it in breadmaking, but desserts?	Sounds good to me. I'm a Sounds good to me. I'm a sucker for bittersweet desserts.
Finally "Started" -- Choosing a Favourite Over Christmas I had a gay old time back home in WY collecting freshly fallen snow and leaving various casques of wet grains sitting around on the countertops to see if any "beasties" (as people seem to call them on TFL) would come to visit. I ended up having some success with ...	in comparing starters, stick to one recipe Get yourself a basic recipe that requires sourdough starter in the same hydration or close to that which you have been feeding. Try this one and see where it takes you: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/keyword/basic-sourdough-boule Until you understand the relationship of milled n...
How to use my Starter? Thanks to TFL and Debra, I think I finally made a good starter using the Pineapple juice method I found here. After a few tries with water I found out about the Pineapple Juice will make it start properly skipping the OMG Yuck smell caused by bad bacterias. Now I'm on day 6 and I don't really see...	Don't Worry about the Impact of the Wild Yeast I often use my starter as a supplemental ingredient in formulas that don't call for starter by using it in the form of a pate fermentee, poolish, biga or just as a replacement for some portion of the flour/water component in the formula in the published recipe I'm working ...
Look what I found this morning!!! Now... talk to me like I'm an idiot. Do I stir it down before I take my little bit out to feed ( and discard the rest )? Do I take my little bit out FIRST ( still inflated )? Do I take half and bake today?	Congrats! You have a new baby starter! It's probably not ready to leaven bread YET, but might work for pancakes, waffles, and muffins. Meanwhile, keep discarding and feeding on the counter for a few weeks to get the flavor and strength up to speed. You will probably have to feed 2 or 3 times a day depending on how fa...
Where did I go wrong A couple of weeks ago I made Peter Reinhart's mother starter (what he calls barm in Apprentice). The plastic never ballooned as he describes, but it was very bubbly and I shaped the final dough into three baguettes. The first and second fermentations took quite a bit longer than described. I suspe...	Which recipe were you making? Were you doing Pain a l'Ancienne or Pain Français? I did the Pain Français first and the dough was great, the baguettes turned out lovely, albeit a little shorter & plumper because the baking pan could only hold so much. Then a bit later, I did the Pain a l'Ancienne and the very small bag...
Playing with beer yeast Beside baking bread I also am a "Beer enthusiast", I do not homebrew, but i love craft beers. Last week a brewer friend gave me some leftover years mix that he use to produce a Belgium style sour beer. I made a starter with just that yeast mix straight, and today I baked some bread. The ye...	brewers yeast has been brewers yeast has been selected over the years for its ability to produce alcohol , bakers yeast on the other hand has been selected for its ability to produce more carbon dioxide gas. vive la differance. reagards yozza
Gift from a Facebook friend I recently joined this forum after beginning to bake my own bread after Christmas, I also became a friend of the TFL Facebook page. A friend who also uses Facebook recognised me; and as a keen bread maker herself decided to get in touch. I was very pleased and suprised when yesterday, my fri...	Sourpuss looks hungry unless the mixture is so thin that the flour and water have separated. A layer of hooch on top usually indicates that the yeasts and bacteria in the starter have consumed all of the readily available food in the flour. Try taking Sourpuss out of the fridge for one or two feedings at room tempera...
Diagnose my starter? Pictures will be better than words, I think. Side view " Growth Mark " Top View All those bubbles make me think it's alive and well on its way, but I can't shake the fear that it will never rise! As you can see, it rose about a millimeter. It is a 100% hydration starter, fed about 12 hours ago. I...	Give it some time. If you've Give it some time. If you've got bubbles, there's something going on. It will grow slowly if your house is cold like mine. There is a huge difference in growth rate between 65 and 75 degrees in terms of growth rate. Keep feeding it, and it if you don't get the kind of action you're looking ...
starter from yeast or not? I'm ready to start my first starter and I'd like to try making one myself instead of buying one. I've looked at recipes for starters and see some that have yeast and some that don't. I'm curious about others opinions and/or experiences with making starters that include yeast and ones that don...	Yeast I don't have a lot of experience with starters but I have one in my frig that I've been using for about 10 months...it's still very healthy and active...it was started with yeast. It's not super sour but then I don't like very sour bread so that is a good thing.
Looking for feedback from home bakers I'm hoping some of you may provide some feedback before I sink my life savings into a venture I'm undertaking. I find it difficult in the winter to get my starter feeding and active even with the hacks used by most of us. (top of the fridge...in the oven with the light on, etc). So...	It could be interesting if really cheap. There are several mats on the market that would be your major competition. Then again, a quart jar of water microwaved for a minute or so is a pretty great heat source. I use a plant mat I bought from less than $10 on Amazon in a cheap plastic cooler because I'm a geek but if I ...
Start over sourdough starter? My starter is maybe 9 months old but has gone downhill since 2 months ago when I left it in the fridge for 3 weeks and then refreshed it with water from an unclean bowl. It had already smelled of acetone whenever I took it out of the fridge but always did fine when I refreshed it and smell...	Oh dear sluggish starter what kind of flour are you using and the temperature of your water? This is what I did when I left my 100% starter in the fridge for over 2 weeks while I was starting a stiff starter (more forgiving than a 100% one):There was a layer of hooch and she (yea I call mine Prune) seemed so sluggish a...
The confusing balancing act of Yeast vs. Lactic acid vs. Acetic acid . . . . and thus my too-Mild Sourdough Hello, I am trying to synthesize all the varying Fresh Loaf Community opinions about how to bring a starter into “balance”, in other words, how to keep its ability to leaven dough (keeping the yeast strong), whil...	Fantastic summary... ... of everything that is confusing me also. Just under you, I have a thread going with many helpful links to solving the mystery that is sourdough and its flavors. Some links recommend the one, some the other. Everytime I think I have a handle on it, I find another post steering me in the total op...
Pineapple Juice Starter Help Needed Hi, I'm new to making a starter. I goofed twice. I used whole wheat and rye flour so I added 2 tablespoons pineapple juice instead of one. I think that's ok but am not sure. My mistake I made today was I am on day 4 and I was supposed to add water & flour instead of doing the two...	Keep going. Don't throw it out, just march on.
How fast can a starter um... start? Yesterday morning, I mixed up a cup of water and a cup of flour in an empty plastic jar. This morning it was gloppy when I fed it. I poured off half, added 1.2 cup water and unbleached AP flour. It certainly smells sourish and yeasty, and its risen about an inch. It is full of teeny ...	Let it Ferment I have used it after about five days, but it hasn't developed much flavor in that length of time. I normally wait at least 7 - 10 days with a new starter.
Baking sourdough Hi all,is it essential to bake a sourdough by tipping it onto a tray from the proving vessel or can they be baked in a loaf tin as per standard loaves?	Sure you can I do it often. The long rising times mean the loaf is somewhat denser at the bottom, but it is still suitable for sandwiches.
Cn I use my starter straight out of the fridge - unfed I have had good success with the 1-2-3 sourdough recipe and plan to experiment by adding some flax seeds to it and perhaps using a little of rye flour but my question again is with the starter. I have a 100% hydration starter that I feed and then put in the fridge....	It will make everything take It will make everything take longer to do because it make a cool dough. Reinhart always suggests to take the starter out an hour before to come to room temperature. He also suggests that it's best if the starter has been fed at least 3 days or less before using. Hope this helps.
Help: How to convert my firm starter to liquid and more questions about my starter Hi everyone. I began making a starter for the first time a few weeks ago using Reinhart's recipe in his book Artisan Breads Everyday. It is a firm starter but have no clue how many percent hydration it is as I am very bad at computing ...	Link http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/16042/sourdough-isn039t-sour
Finally, some measure of sourdough success I've been trying this off and on. I'm not sure I will be a convert to the wild yeasts but had decided to make it work at least once. These look ok, except for the major blow out on one. I mixed 3 ounces of starter with 1 ounce whole rye, 1 ounce whole wheat, 3 ounces of bre...	A picture of the crumb. It A picture of the crumb. It is good but not as good as my commercial yeast leavened bread at this point. I think it needs a touch more salt.
Sourdough isn't sour :( So I've been nailing my sourdough breads from the start. Each one is gorgeous, the texture is spot on. The only problem I have is ... ... it's not sour.It doesn't taste bland, it just tastes ... not sour. At all. Well, sometimes a little, but read on. I grew my culture straight out of the BBA'...	Link After you've read this: http://www.angelfire.com/ab/bethsbread/WhatisSourdough.html You may find that you didn't really have what you might have thought you had in a "sourdough" starter. I've found that a more sour flavor develops if I take the starter out of the fridge, add some warm water and flour (rye flour) t...
What is the difference between a levain and a starter I'm getting sort of confused about this. I used a packet of French Lalavaine "starter" from KAF to make a whole bunch of levain, made some bread and gave about 4 cups of it to a friend. I have about 4 cups left sitting in my refrigerator waiting to be turned into ...	Thank you That is good hear, being a bread baking newbie I was afraid I was going to poison myself or someone else by treating the levaine as a starter. If the character changes, I hope it's for the best - I did switch from European style flour to AP flour, maybe I'll go back and see if the nutty sour tang is still n...
Starter Just started my starter from this fine website. The instructions say "cover" for 24 hours. Mine is in a glass jar. Should the lid be loose or tight? Maybe a cloth or something other than the lid? Any help is truly appreciated. Thanks	Loose lid unless you want to clean the ceiling! The starter WILL produce gas (yeast and bacteria fart, if you will excuse the expression). Especially in the first few days when you might have a lot of bacterial activity. And if you look around, you will find stories of people who have had their glass jars of starter ...
Proof bread style Sourdough Sandwich loaf So being inspired by the Proof Bakery videos as well as having started selling my own loaves of sourdough from my home I'm kinda looking to expand into sandwich loaves.So does anyone have any clue on the formula? John explains his entire ingredient list but no exact weights sav...	If I were trying to replicate If were trying to replicate the proof formula I would use something like this450g flour370g water100g starter30g brown sugar30g butter20-30g powdered milk10g saltHowever, they use high percentages of starter in their bread (I think they said 20-30% in one of their videos) so if I were maki...
Got to toughen up my starter, looking for suggestions. Greetings TFL,Over the past few months, my starter has been taking longer and longer to raise dough. I have a feeling it is due to my lack of properly caring for the refrigerated starter. I would like toughen up this starter so when it is fully prepped, it doubles ...	Toughening up starter I think that your problem lies in the fact that you are not discarding any old starter before feeding. Your starter will be much healthier if you discard all but a few spoonfuls before starting your feeding cycle. As it is now, it is sort of like feeding a cesspool of waste and that is not a healt...
Starting down the path If you read my intro, you know I'm new at this, so be gentle. Anyway, a few months ago I decided to expand my repertoir into sour dough. Not knowing where to go for the starter, I turned to the Internet and found a site that explained how to make my own from water and whole wheat flour. After two...	starter Use rye flour and water only, equal parts by weight. room termperature. feed every morning for a week, then go to 3 times a week for one week. at the end of two weeks, use as often as you wish, and then start storing in refrigerator.
McGrath's Fish House Sourdough Bread Recently I experienced McGrath's Fish House sourdough bread and found it to have a very light crumb which I found to be very delightful. Does anyone have their recipe or a duplicate? I have Googled the net with no luck.	McGrath's Sourdough Hi, I made a boule of Susan's Simple Sourdough, only when I baked it, I baked at a lower oven timp than she recommends and a shorter time. The crust didn't come out crispy and chewy but more like the crust of McGraths. My DW told me that it tasted like McGrath's bread. Susan from San Diego posted...
forgot salt So i made my weakly loaf of sourdough bread, but i forgot the salt...but thats not all, to top it off i overfroofed the dough due to having to leave the house. So what do i do with 2 loafs of overproofed unsalted dough!?	Use It ... Make a strata or bread pudding; or several of them.
Help, lots of hooch on top? So first I should state that I am new to sour dough and starters. I had followed refrigerating instructions given to me by the friend who provided the mother to begin with. Upon removing the starter from the fridge I fed it whisked it and left if with a loose lid on the counter to rise and c...	de-hooching it is normal. but I just take out 2/3 of a cup for a loaf-to-be (SF sourdough). then add some new flour /water to the jar and put it pack in the fridge. depending on the needed hydration, I either take away the hooch or mix it though. Either way works for me. you could test these options and see what works ...
I don't bother to refresh anymore Storing my starter in the fridge. I just take it out, take half of it and use it to start my loaf, add flour and water and put back in the fridge. No waste. Seems to be fine without feeding, "activating"...	Indeed, it can work It depends, I suppose, on how often you bake and how liquid your starter is. One of mine is at about 67% and I never have to refresh that. I use all of it to make a batch of dough, remove 35 grams after the first rise, and put that into the fridge. Lasts a month easily without any problems. My other...
Very soft white bread-maybe even fluffy! My forte has been whole wheat bread but my husband loves fluffy,white bread and I have been working on it. I may have finally figured it out. Try it out and see what you think. It's done by volume measure rather than weight but it was my first attempt. Refinements will come.I ba...	Held up beautifully! This impulsive recipe may be a keeper! The bread has held up beuatifully for sandwiches. It remains soft and not crumbly and actually tastes good. I'm going to try it with AP flour instead of the Better for Bread flour next time ans see what the difference is.If anyone else tries that, let us know...
Adding salt to a finished dough I've just mixed up a batch of WW Healthy Bread in Five, a double batch with starter instead of yeast. For all the problems I've had with my rather sluggish starter, this time, he overdelivered! The bread rose to about triple, dumping dollops of dough all over the kitchen floor. I was s...	Salt Paste This is like adding salt to a dough that you autolyse. Make a salt paste. I like to mix some water with the salt to dissolve it (otherwise, salt's abbrasive nature will destroy your gluten network), then add flour to adjust it to a consistency that can be kneaded in. This consistency is usually at or wetter ...
Converting Hamelman's Liquid Levain to a 50% So, I thought I could do it, but I am a bit untrustworthy of my skills. I am looking at converting my liquid levain from Bread by Jeffery Hamelman, a 125% white starter to a 50% firm starter. I thought I could do it, but I am afraid to mess up and wreck my dear, dear starter...	No, your 225 grams of starter No, your 225 grams of starter has 100 grams of flour and 125 grams of water. For 50% hydration, the water should be half the weight of the flour. Add 150 grams of flour and you now have 250 grams of flour and 125 grams of water. 125/250 = 50% That is just the math; I have no opinion on yo...
Othe ways to form a boule I have been trying to bake a San Francisco style Sourdough Boule. I don't yet have a Banneton, so are there other ways to form this type of loaf? I have tried glass and metal bowls lined with a heavily floured cotton kitchen towel and the results have been disastrous at best. Any help woul...	Try a linen tea towel Linen wicks moisture better than cotton. Flour the boule and the linen, you can brush off the excess later. Other people have mentioned a mix of white flour and rice flour.
Tip - Setting up a Vessel to Evaluate Rise A simple way to evaluate the percentage of rise in a clear vesselThe following is used to setup a vessel with 100ml incrementsPut the vessel on the scale and tare, then place 100g water in the vessel and mark the level Put another 100g water in with the other water and mark th...	Great idea Great idea with the scribing, Dan. I've suffered through enough meticulous markings getting wiped right off by wet hands. And also good to mark the weight of the container. For a time, I couldn't figure out why my numbers were off-- for some measurements, I was taring with an empty glass bowl of the same mak...
Started from wheat to rye switch is not working I was able to start my own AP wheat starter. After seven days is it working as crazy - it quadruples itself within 4 hours and then repeates it one or two more times. I am trying to refresh if every 8 hours to "season" it ASAP. However, my main goal is to make 100% rye. F...	Rye starters You can't judge much from a day or two's performance after switching flours in the feeding. The culture you are feeding produces bacteria and yeast in varying amounts depending on many things. Temperature, how well ground is the flour ground, How is the mix combined or stirred and is the gluten developed i...
Do I need to feed old starter?? This feels like a silly question... If I'm collecting old starter in the fridge, do I need to feed it periodically?	In short, yes, you do need to In short, yes, you do need to feed it occasionally. You don't have to keep more than a couple of tablespoons if you are not actively using it. You will read stories here about long neglected starters coming back to life after being lost in the back of the refrigerator for months, but in ...
Question about % of starter to flour? Is there a rule of thumb for the % of starter to use in a formula compared to the total flour (bakers %) how long is it safe to let an enriched dough (just a TBS of butter) ferment at room temp? Do low hydration doughs have problems when using sour dough starters? I am finding tha...	I do many breads with the I do many breads with the starter at 25%. I have done good breads all the way from 9% to 95% starter. What kind of hydration are you talking about for a dry bread? You might also try letting the dough ferment longer if it is a dry dough.
Starter from the Fridge in a hurry I'm in a hurry to try to get my starter built for a loaf of Hamelman's mixed flour miche because this AM when I baked I completely messed up my loaf. Looking at my upcoming schedule for the next three days, if I don't bake today, I won't be able to bake until Monday. So, I have whole ...	Can't be rushed I can only speak from experience and say there's no way my sourdough culture could be removed from the fridge, refreshed, and then double or mature sufficiently within two hours to raise a loaf of bread. Not even at 85F. But that's my SD culture. Why not try it and if it's too sluggish, just add a bit...
Question on feeding sourdough I recently received some sourdough starter from someone and so I've decided to try making my first sourdough bread. I've fed it a couple of times, and am keeping it aligned with Hamelman's 125% hydration liquid levain. At this point I have about 8 oz of mature culture. In Hamelman's recipe...	I think my understanding of I think my understanding of sourdough hinges on this: is the discard suitable for using as levain or does the actual levain going into the final dough have to be built up specially for that purpose? It's suitable to leaven dough since it's just as ripe and ready as the starter you're not d...
Better than just flour and water I need help to find a better recipe for the sourdough bread. I am just starting baking and my goal is to bake whole rye bread. Unfortunattely, several days ago I did so much whole rye that I ate just half of what I baked. At the same time I still have extra starter which I need to feed ...	Does This Fit? Is this any good? http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/14902/sourdough-boule-goat-milk You don't have to use goats milk.
Need Advice first sour dough bread try 40% RYE Slow Moe Bread Hi I'll try and keep this brief. Last night at eight P.M. I fed my starter and took the excess (93g AP Mother @ 100% hydration) I mixed the mother with 93g AP & 93g water in my mixing bowl. covered and let sit. At 1:00A.M. before i hit the sack I checked on ...	This thing is really taking off now! Just 1/2 hour since the last photo and Its doubled! Ill take pics of the bread when its done. Thanks anyway Will
Sourdough stages As I understand, there are two major stages in sourdough baking: first they make sponge and then they make dough. In reallity, sponge is a form of dough. Sponge raises and bubbles the same way as dough would. At the same time some fuel for bubble generation is used ny yeasts. So, what is the reason to ...	In a Word Flavor
Sourdough Rising Time Hi all, I've been visiting this site for a while but this is my first forum post. So anyway, here we go! I've recently been experimenting with sourdough starters and I'm finding that most recipes seem to specify loooong rising times. However, I'm starting to think my loaves are actually ending up ...	By all means Ignore suggested rise and proof times given in sourdough recipes. No two sourdough cultures are alike.
Alternate feeding methods? I was curious if adding other foods to the starter could possibly increase the amount of time it would take for it to need a feeding. My starter has been doing well for the past month and a bit since I made it, but the past few days I´ve been hit with a strong alcohol, and eventually acetone ...	A question Hi there, Can I ask you a question more basic than the one you are asking? I'm maintaining a starter and having problems to maintain it after use some of it for a loaf. Let's say I have having 500 grams of starter and I need 100 grams. How much I feed the remaining 400 grams? Is there a proportion? Thanks a ...
When to feed starter after baking? Hello, I am a COVID-triggered sourdougher, so still inexperienced ?. I bake infrequently, say every few weeks, so keep the starter in the fridge. It's around 300g. I use 150g per loaf, so i feed it with 75g water and 75g flour. A few questions:- do I feed the starter immediately or wa...	That's a lot of starter to maintain If you want to make starter maintenance easier on yourself, look at the "Most Bookmarked" group on the right hand side of the home page. Look for the topic "No Muss, No Fuss Starter". This particular contribution to the site is popular because it works and it's easy. You really can't...
Bleached flour I got extra leftover of AP bleached flour. Can I use it for sourdough baking and starter making?	I would not But thats just me. I would suggest using any leftover bleached AP to make some cookies, cakes, and other stuff along the pastry line. Then I would jsut buy unbleached from then on.
Reinhart barm question I have looked at a number of previous questions about this an am still confused. I just made Peter Reinhart's barm (it's bubbly but hasn't puffed up the plastic yet). Once I use it, how do I refresh it? He says to double it, but how do I calculate that? Do I discard some? At one point he says to ...	go by weight Its best if you have a scale. Just weigh what you got, then add enough flour and water to double it (he keeps the barm at 100% hydration, so that would be equal parts flour and water). For example, if you have 4 oz barm, add 2 oz flour and 2 oz water. I found that it seemed healthier with slightly larger f...
first attempt with SD starter So this was my first attempt at a Sour Dough bread from starter. I think the dough could have used a touch more flour and maybe 5 more mins in the oven but it eats well and looks nice!	Nice One Looks pretty darn good rileybri, congrats.
After weekly feeding/refrshing your starters, do you let rise a bit, or refrigerate immeditely? Hello all, I've been reading a lot of different opinions on this, and wanted to get your take. After the (weekly, or so) feeding/refreshing of your starter, or after you pulled the mother/barm/levain-stock out of the fridge ...	I am not an expert, But you I am not an expert, But you asked for opinions so here is mine. For what its worth. After I feed my starter, I let it set on the counter for an hour. I use room temp water and the hour is just to let it get a start. When building my starter to bake, I like to let it collapse before the next ...
BBA Firm Starter for sourdough I have made the BBA Sourdough starter and I thought it looked okay but when I mixed the firm starter and let it stand at room temperature for 4 hours, it only rose slightly. Granted, my house is 100+ years old and is cool in the winter, it is certainly warmer than the fridge so I'm wonde...	Starter behavior Hi, Kathy. How fast a starter will grow depends on the number and health of the yeast in it and, very highly, on the ambient temperature. How old is your starter? Have you successfully made bread with it yet? How did you feed your firm starter (proportions of starter to water to flour)? A very active s...
Need help to convert recipe Hello! Could anyone help me to convert this recipe from 100% hydration to 50%? I tried to calculate it, but I'm not sure. Recipe: Ingredients:# 120 grams or 1/2 cup active sourdough starter (100% hydration)# 340 grams or 2.25 cups bread flour# 8 grams or 1 1/8 tsp salt# 210 grams or 3/4 cup ...	Hi Lindley, Hi Lindley, If i understand what you are trying to do these proportions below should work, without changing the original 100% flour. Starter 170g Flour 340g Water 128g 50% starter at 100% hydration =85g water 85g of flour from starter + 340g of total flour = 425 g 50% hydration x 425g flour...
Commercial starter There are several commerical starters for sale on the web. Is it worth to spent on getting them? After series of failing experiments I was finally able to develop my own starter wich works well - I have made Susan's simple sourgough and it was better when I could expect! Should Ii now go for a profes...	If it works, don't fix it. There have been a lot of threads over the past six months about whether or not a sourdough starter will change flavors over a period time due to the local environment and flour used in refreshing the starter. There have also been threads about how to mellow a starter or to add pucker power to...
Having no luck in getting my starters to rise/ferment/proof in actual bread-making. Hello, Being an overwhelmed neophyte, I am having enormous trouble getting my sourdough starters to make the transition to the big leagues: basically, to move from being a starter in a mason jar to being a leavening agent for loaves of ...	Twenty hour bulk proof? You mixed your final dough and let it sit at room temperature for twenty hours, then did your stretch and folds? I think you went way past the entire proofing cycle and you were trying to turn spent dough, so far past its prime it resembled over proofed starter (the batter like consistancy) int...

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