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My lievito madre (videos) Spontaneously I documented the maintenance of my starter.Please excuse any background noise and the appearance of my unkempt face.	So many questions.. Thanks for this..I've seen pictures of tied up levain and have no idea why people do that. Why? And then your washed and made a dough.. then cut into it with a cross, what's that about? Is this for a specific type of bread? Great videos.. thanks for this.. but please educate me.. Thanks!
Help storing/freezing starter, please I need to store my two starters that are just about one month old. One is rye and the other is pretty much white (I sometimes add a bit of rye or whole wheat) They are going to be completely ignored for ten to twelve days. I would like to freeze them. I've read that I can dry a...	Don't Obsess 10 to 12 days just isn't that big a deal. I don't know what you are doing with your starters now, so my comments are based on not knowing what you are doing. Freezing and drying are both a bit extreme, and many starters will not survive the process. The Friends of Carl have had faiilures at reviving, so ...
Firm starter acetic or lactic? Conflicting sources. I've seen several places on this forum say that a stiffer starter encourages the creation of acetic acid which causes a more sour sourdough. (particularly here: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/1040)However, in Reinhart's "Crust and Crumb" he says several times the op...	I keep a firm starter and yes, it is milder up to a point. That point has to do with how long I let refreshed starter ferment at room temperature. If I want it real sour, I let it ripen at room temp and give a good portion into a recipe. I also know to that to keep it mild, I drop the ripening temp or give it more f...
Starter get sourer? I make buttermilk sourdough bread once a week, refreshing my starter the night before I bake. In between times, it sits in the fridge. Does it get sourer as it gets older? It smells a little stronger this week, not much, but stronger than before; it's very healthy, still bubbly.	Posted it under buttermilk starter and bread. If you look through the postings, not just the ones on the main page, you should find it. If not, you could go and sign in at www.kingarthurflour.com and the recipe is there under members' recipes.
Rye Sourdough I have a question regarding the German rye sourdough I have been using...I have successfully cultivated a nice rye starter that I have used for a couple of bread recipes from Daniel Leader's Local Breads book. However, there are very few recipes using this rye starter in the book. Can I use my rye start...	convert your starter or just use it... Mike,You can probably use your rye starter in any of the stiff dough levain recipes, or any other recipes for that matter, as is. It may not have the exact same flavors, but it shouldn't make very much difference if you are building preferments and the final dough with the flours ...
Refreshing the starter If I use my buttermilk sourdough once a week to make bread, and keep it in the fridge between bakings, am I right to assume that I only need to stir it down in the interim? It still looks quite lively, hasn't separated much at all, and is quite bubbly.	Why? Personally, I am reluctant to use anything in sourdough other than water and flour. I am especially leery of having long term dairy ingredients as dairy can go bad. Still, if it works for you, OK. If I have my starter in the fridge for a week, I feed it a few times before I use it to make sure that it is lively....
Beautiful outdoor oven + sourdough lessons I apologize if this has been posted here before, but I saw this today and thought I'd share it. The outdoor setting is so green, and I loved the oven.http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=27634I also thought the instructions seemed good. Any thoughts?Marni	What a beautiful treat in more ways than one!Marni, that was my first time to see this. Thanks for sharing it.
Timing for Refreshing Starter Hello folks, This question isn't strictly about sourdoughs, but since it applies to starters, I thought that this would be the best place to put it. I will be making my first attempt at a sourdough bread within the next few weeks, and have a question about the timing of the steps. The be...	Re: Timing for Refreshing Starter Personally, one feeding cycle before using the starter (the night before or early the morning of depending on the schedule) I discard 50% of my refrigerated starter and feed it with the appropriate flour/water mix.My reasoning is thus: after a week (on average) in the refrigerator th...
Whew! It's okay. I have a starter I captured using the method in The Cheese Board Collective Works book (similar to the one in BBA). I have had it for about six years now (it is almost the same age as my daughter). I haven't been baking a lot recently and it sat in my fridge for a while. I took it out to refresh it...	Glad to hear your starter has "re-started" TRK, Good save! Hope you post some of your baked items when you get around to baking again. We would love to see them.Howard - St. Augustine, FL
!st time sourdough starter = bread, rolls and pizza - Oh My! Thank you everyone for all your advice. Here're the results so far from my first starter-I hope this isn't too long--This is a sandwich loaf that I adapted from one I occasionally make. These are oatmeal sourdough rolls - slightly sweet with honey and mola...	Marni, you've gone wild Marni,That's an amazing series of breads. Congratulations. Nice job across the board there, and it looks like you had a lot of fun, too. You must be tired! It's great to see the starter is working.Bill
First loaf from first sourdough starter, plus questions and advice, please! First SourdoughHello,I am a new member, Kristy. I live in Shelton, WA. I have always loved bread (as my hips will attest to), and have baked the occasional loaf, but I stopped after becoming frustrated with loaves that didn't rise.I found the...	Welcome! Welcome to TFL, Kristy! It sounds like you are off to a good start with Sourdough baking. It's not on most ingredient lists, but enthusiasm definitely is a factor around here. Look around and do some searches on this site. You should find lots of information about how to get a more open crumb (bigger holes)....
Cheddar Jalepeno sourdough 27DE624E-85A2-4310-81C2-C63837EB93C7_1_105_c.jpeg	I was worried the heavy I was worried the heavy inclusions would weigh this loaf down . The oven spring wasn't as great as I had hoped
Sourdough saga About a week ago I embarked on a journey to create my first sourdough bread. Thus far, I am bewitched. I started cultivating yeast using hodgson mills(not organic) rye flour and cold tap water (1:1 by weight). The first 24 hours, the starter puffed up really tall and bubbly. I did not want to get carried...	Giving me hope, bnb. I can't afford organic anything either, the prices are shocking, but I am going to put together a starter forthwith and see what happens. I gather you didn't use any commercial yeast in yours?
Unhealthy baby starter I recently created a starter and it's not so healthy. It still has bubbles, but it makes hooch every day and doesn't really poof up in the container. I was feeding it daily accd. to the book I have. Here's how I started it:Day 1 mix whole wheat flour, raisin water (to add S. Exiguus yeast cells),...	2x a day My guess would be two feedings a day would be right, but I don't know if it's too late. Does it smell good? There are some people here who know a LOT about sourdough-I'm not one of them- I'm sure you'll get the right answer. Have you searched this site for more info? Good luck.Marni
starter and flavor, silverton etc... One of the starters I keep is exactly as in Nancy Silverton's book. It is 16 parts water : 11 parts flour by weight. Nancy claims that this ratio has been worked on to give you the tastiest ratio of acetic to lactic acid, and other flavor components. My starter is very healthy and...	Hootch I like a sour bread, so I stir the hootch back into the starter as long as it has a nice, alcoholic fragrance.
My starter has had to be thrown out! Two days in a row, when we were out of spring water, I refreshed my starter with tap water that had been left standing overnight. Yesterday, we were told to boil our water for twenty minutes before drinking it, so I wouldn't dare use my starter now. E-coli was mentioned as a possi...	Oh dear! Sorry to hear that. In China and other places, I'd take the biggest cook pot I had and boil water and let it cool overnight and then pour into clean plastic water bottles in the morning. I understand what you're going through but no reason to delay starting a new starter. It might actually take your mind of...
General rule for using my sponge in other recipes? Is there a general rule for how much of my sourdough sponge to use in other recipes? I followed the recipe for a "barm starter" in "Crust and Crumb" but there are only a few recipes that use that sponge. The rest of the recipes in the book use a poolish that was starte...	Re: Using sourdough sponge in other recipes In Rose Levy Beranbaum's _The Bread Bible_ there is a subsection on how to convert bakers yeast recipes to sourdough. I don't do that much so I don't have the details at the top of my head, but you could get the book from the library and jot that process down. She also giv...
It smells like beer Is it okay if my starter smells like beer? Everything else looks fine. No hooch, just the smell.Marni	Re: Smells like beer Yep, that's perfectly normal. It's the smell of fermentation. Everything's good!
sourdough for some reason I never seem to have much luck with sourdough.But I keep trying:-)))))) this is my latest attenpt. qahtan	That looks beautiful to me. That looks beautiful to me. Well risen, crackly crust. What more were you looking for? How did it taste.
Sourdolady's bread recipe Has anyone made the Deluxe Sourdough Bread recipe that Sourdolady posted and left out the dry milk? I need to make bread without dairy products and thought I would try this with just the water. I could substitute rice milk, but I have found in other breads that water seems to work fine. I'm ...	Re: Deluxe Sourdough Bread Yes, go ahead and leave it out. It shouldn't make much of any difference. I have never made it without but I'm sure it can be done. Let me know how it turns out.
WOW! Starter #2 is working!! Thank you to everyone for the advice and support! My second starter has not only started- it is trying hard right now to raise its own little loaf of bread. I followed Sourdolady's recipe for replacing yeast in an existing recipe yesterday morning and just finished mixing the dough a few...	Starter # 2 Congrats! Glad you are having some success. Will be waiting to hear how the bread turns out. To feed your starter, you may want to thicken it up some now that it is awake. Gradually increase the size of feedings so you don't overwhelm it. Starting with 1/2 cup flour is fine. If you are going to use it in a ...
gelatinous starter My pineapple/whole wheat starter is five days old today and when I removed a 1/4 cup last night, start adding water and white flour, it was gelatinous. I have had no bubbles and almost no rising. I had only about a scant 1/2 total in the bowl. It just is beginning to smell a bit sourish. Does anyo...	Re: Gelatinous starter Marni, your starter is fine. The gelatinous texture is caused from gluten strands forming as a result of the moisture reacting with the gluten in the flour. After it ferments awhile you will see the texture change back to a more liquid, non-gelainous texture. That is an indication that your star...
Discard loaf results So I recently came upon a recipe where they use sourdough discard straight from the fridge to make a loaf. I used my 5 day old discard and I was honestly surprised! Here are my results: 4B4592FD-2E5A-48A4-B031-7F9597416690.jpeg C379CCBF-29DA-4155-8D50-748ED8188D63.jpeg	Good job! Good job!Can you post your formula?
New gal makes good! Local Breads, attempt #2 Hi guys, I just wanted to express my elation that my stiff dough levain is alive! For those of you who have been coaching me with my sad attempts at the wet levain, you will be proud. Apparently the stiff dough is not as picky as the wet one about room temp or maybe it knew ...	The Auvergne Crown is wonderful This is a delightful bread. It was my first sourdough bread from this book. My first one came out delicious but the shape was only so-so. My second one came out much better: The Auvergne Crown I have to "warn" you, though, that this bread is not at all sour. It has a very nice complex f...
Capturing the outdoor wild spores While reading through all the minutiae at the various cyberspace sourdough sites, I came across some comments at King Arthur stating that the best time to start a sourdough culture is in summer and fall. Which makes sense, as wild yeast spores would be really abundant at those times.W...	wild spores You may be able to capture wild spores, but most of ones you'll get are present on the grains that are used for the flour. In the long run they will be the micro-organisms that will dominate your sourdough. You can, apparently, make starter from fruit waters. There is a link on this website about that.
Day 2 and my starter is bubbling! It's bubbling away and it's only Day 2. I used whole wheat flour and orange juice, and I'm keeping it beside my computer, not the warmest place in the world, but possibly the warmest place in our flat.	I just started one too and I just started one too and after 36 hours or so it was bubbling away... I used rye flour and water. Is this okay? I've been feeding it 1:2:2 since and the activity seems to have slowed down?
SourdoLady SourdoLady, I've just fed for Day 3 of my orange juice whole wheat flour starter; when I repeat Day 4 after tomorrow, do I have to keep discarding all but 1/4 of a cup? It's got all little bubbles right now over the surface and smells very nice; it's now living on top of the fridge in the kitchen.	PaddyL, Re: starter Yes, always discard all but the 1/4 cup before feeding it. It sounds like it is off to a good start!
Which flour for the starter Could someone clarify for me which flour to use when? I have started with rye flour in my starter. Am I then supposed to switch to All Purpose or Bread Flower after the starter gets going? I am making a rye bread from Hamelman's book.	Re: Which flour for the starter? Hamelman says it doesn't matter much, and my experience is that is true. I keep two starters, one fed with 80 white/20 rye and the other with 80 white/20 whole wheat. The one with rye in it is stickier and doesn't rise as much during feeding cycles; the one with no rye is a bit cream...
question about KA Simple,Rustic loaf I would like to make the Simple,Rustic loaf from the KA website. It gives amounts for a starter. I have a sourdough starter that I feed with the 1:2:2 method. I need to know how much of my starter to use instead of starting from scratch with theirs. Their recipe calls for: 1 1/2c(12...	re simple, rustic loaf Granniero,If you want to use your starter instead of instant yeast in the sponge, I would suggest maybe you use about 1/4 cup to 1/2 cup of your starter stirred into the recipe for the sponge and omit the instant yeast. Otherwise follow the directions for the sponge and the final dough. Let the s...
Sourdough Starter Barely Starting I am 15 days into a Hodgson Mills Rye flour starter and I have bubbles but only a 50% expansion of the starter. The ambiant temp is about 66 degrees.I am using 1:2:2 (starter. flour, water) but it is looking pretty weak.Do I try1:3:3 or more...Pineapple juice..a dashA bit of yeast..a ...	patience... CountryBoy,At 66F, it's just going to take a lot longer. I would definitely not add yeast. The starter is already rising, so you probably don't need pineapple juice anymore. The ratio should remain fairly low until it is more vigorous. 1:2:2 every 24 hours should be fine until you notice a vigorous rise in ...
Tempting me with sourdough I don't usually make sourdough bread unless someone asks me for a loaf specifically. But after reading all these posts lately, you have tempted me to get a starter going again. I've read that you can temper the sour flavour by adding baking soda, and as I'm not all that mad about sour, I'd ...	Misnomer.. To me it's easier to think of sourdough as a type of bread that can be made from a starter. Your starter can also produce very mild, non-sour loaves. Alot of the flavor does come from overnight retarding. SourdoLady can certainly get you started. Her Deluxe Sourdough is a milder, softer crumbed loaf..still c...
WW Sourdough Questions Is it possible to get a blistered crackly crust using WW flour?When I make sandwich loafs they come out great, but when I make a boule the crust comes out hard and tastes burnt.I have been following PRs Whole Grains book for Hearth bread. He bakes this bread at 450, but even at 425 the crust stil...	WW crust I've spent a lot of time working to get a crunchy crust on my loaves. I've never gotten it as crunchy as a white loaf, but I've had better results when I used very fresh flour.I'm not sure why, but it seems to help.
I would like to send a starter I have a starter I got that i have just coddled into perfection and want to send it to someone across the country. What is the best method for packing? should I freeze part of it? should I let it rest a few days first? What should I pack it in?	mailing starter Kayemme, I sent some freshly fed starter to my son last year. I used a plastic applesauce jar and enclosed it in 2 ziploc bags in case of leakage. Then I packed it in a box - I told the clerk what it was and she wasn't a bit concerned. It arrived safely and he still uses it. Mine only had to travel from...
Sudden allergy to Sourdough? Help! Hi thereI've recently got more interested in looking after my microbiome so was really happy to find out that sourdough bread is really good for this. I've eaten sourdough for ages anyway.However, the last few times I've eaten it, I've had an immediate reaction - bubbling tummy, gripi...	Let me get this straight.... You are looking for medical advice on a bread site?
Breaking all starter 'rules' in the book How far i've come from thinking refreshed starter caught at its peak makes the best bread. Sometimes it does one good to throw away the rule book, and recipes for that matter, and just have some fun. Nice to not be constrained by convention. So with some ends of packets and un-r...	That’s a great looking slice, That’s a great looking slice, Abe. The crumb is very nice.I love the artistry involved in free form breads. But as of late, pullman pans are getting the lions share of my doughs. The slices are perfect for eating...Pullman Pans -Have you ever worried about over filling a covered pullman?I ...
wet levain, local breads I am on day 9 of my wet levain from "Local Breads"I am feeding every night, equal water and flour, and stirring for 30 seconds every 8 hours (approx). To hasten fermentation I have tried going with warmer water. It has the consistancy of a thin pancake batter and when I go to stir, there is alw...	Yes, typically wet starters often will not noticably rise, or only a little bit, especially if they are very wet. You say you add equal parts water and flour, the question is are they equal in volume or weight? Equal in volume is more than 100% hydration and I would not be surprised by no rise. If they are equal in wei...
freezing dough > newish baker Hi!Normally I make half recipes of bread and bake often, but for some reason I decided to make a full recipe today and it's far more bread than I can or should eat before it stales. My plan is to make bread bowls for a chowder later, between 4-6 of them, or maybe 2 bowls and a couple smal...	it depends in the dough. it depends in the dough. Most dough can be frozen for about a month to six weeks but it would be better if you alow the dough only one rise and then shape the loafs.the shape loafs can then be wraped in plastic and frozen. if you can set your frezzer to the coldest setting so the bread will f...
Questions from a first timer Hi, I just found this site a few days ago when I was searching to see what I had done wrong with my first attempt at a sourdough starter. This site is amazing and you all know so much. I have found I have a lot to learn.I have been baking bread for almost 20 years (just at home , for my fa...	Re: Sourdough starter questions from a first-timer === I mixed it with the same ratio, but after reading some comments decided that it needed more juice to look like "thick batter". It has been sitting covered with a linen dish towel for about 23 hours. It doesn't look much different except it is drying out around th...
PUMPERNICKEL This is my shop tested formula for pumpernichelit is based on a rye sourdough starter most of the time in a retail bakery the starter would be basid on white rye flour but whole rye can be usedfor the real jewish style use white rye in the starteronion caraway or raisnes can be addedif you have some old br...	Pumpernickel flour mix Norm,Looking at your formula above, I've been thinking of switching to All Trumps from Harvest King for AP flour and I wonder if All Trumps would be a good sub for first clear. The protein count in Gold Medals Iron Duke is lower than All Trumps. It seems like it would be OK. What do you think?Eri...
Levain without organic flour Hi there,I am quite new to this site and live in a smallish town. I am trying the levain in Local Breads. Has anybody tried this without organic flour? and to what end? I am on day 2 with reg. grocery store bread flour. Any input would be appreciated. Thank you.	Non-organic should perform [Edit: Sorry, somehow I missed the fact that you were building up a levain, rather than baking a levain bread. So my original post is a bit less relevant to your question. Breadnerd's post (below) has some more relevant info. --Chris] Non-organic should perform close, though probably not iden...
White spelt sourdough I've bought some white spelt flour recently and wonder if anyone has used it successfully to make sourdough.Would be great to hear how you have found it and any favourite recipes.Thank you.carthurjohn	Spelt sourdough link. I haven't done it, but you might want to check this link out: Northwest Sourdough. Its a newly posted blog about this very subject. Hope it helps.
Nancy Silverton's Breads from La Brea Bakery Hi I have been watching this site for a few months now and making notes of all of the excellent tips. I am dabbling in sourdough with some success. Just finished the Norwich Sourdough from wildyeastblog. It is great. I am interested in a book on sourdough but wanted to m...	I would go with Glezer's book I find Silverton's recipes to be insanely complicated and involved. Glezer's recipes are more "user friendly". Glezer's book Artisan Baking is also much more beautiful than Silverton's book. Glezer's other book, A Blessing of Bread, is also excellent and highly recommended. I have learnt a...
Accidental Sourdough Starter As I conducted my home ash content tests during the latest home milling and sifting session, a sourdough starter was accidentally started. The home ash content test involves mixing 5 grams of flour with 100 grams of distilled water, stirring it periodically, and measuring the conductivity o...	An interesting concept - An interesting concept - I'll give it a try when I'm ready to make another starter. It's wonderful how quickly it matured! There is one type of cross-inoculation that may have happened. I don't know how soon you did these tests after milling flour. Is it possible that a slight amount of flour...
dough not rising I made my first dough from my sourdough starter this am. It has sat for a little over 2 hours and I see very little to no rise.My started is very bubbly, smells great, and doubles each day when I feed it. Should I add more starter to the dough, add yeast to the dough or what to save it. I tripled the ...	More time fixes dough not rising I'm a sourdough novice but my starter behaves like you described; doubling daily after feedings. One thing you didn't mention is how much starter you added to how much flour. The ONE loaf of sourdough I have cranked out thusfar doesn't make me an expert but it turned out well so here ...
Improving My Sourdough Technique I baked some wonderful sourdough herb bread from Ed Wood's book. I was not entirely happy with it, however.It started when I decided it was time to refresh my starter. I like to start with my 4 oz (approx) of starter (maybe I should go to 2 oz) and double it with feedings over a perio...	Spring Blooms Hi Rosalie, First, excuse my semantic nit picking: "Oven spring" is the overall increase in volume of a loaf during baking. "Bloom" is the widening of the gap where you have slashed or scored your loaves. Spring and bloom are related, of course, but yet not the same.Now, your questions: Less than expecte...
Best size DO for batards? So I've been envying everyone's lovely batards, and want to see if I can attempt. I'm eying these cast iron DO from Ikea. Which size would be best for standard batards? It seems like the 5.3qt dimensions are similar to the Challenger (so far out of my budget right now). Am I missing anything? ...	Hi there, i have a 6.3litre Hi there, i have a 6.3litre Le creuset oval and i find it works great for batards and also wide enough for boules of the 500g of flour recipes. I haven't' tried larger boules in it. But i think it should be long enough for batards that have larger than 500g of flour. Good thing is I think...
Oat flour sourdough Does anyone have a recipe for a sourdough loaf using some oat flour which they're willing to share?Fiona	Oats do not have gluten Oats do not have gluten you you can't do a 100% oat flour sourdough. What you can do it replace some of the regular flour with oat. I read 1/3 of the flour can be replaced. You could try it and see what happens.Sylvia
Starter: everything but volume Hey there,I'm making a second attempt at starting a sourdough culture/starter (the first was a white (unbleached) flour only 100% hydration starter which bubbled nicely, smelt suitably sour but never showed signs of being active enough to increase 'volume' or work in bread fermentation).T...	Try making it thicker? I wonder if your starter is too thin--try making it thickly gloppy. This is a very unscientific recommendation, but I've noticed that my starter won't puff if the ratio of water to flour is too high.SOL
the color purple I am definitely a new-by and wish to learn. How ever, I get confused by the technical detail of the recipes and process details. Please bear in mind that I am an engineer by training. so mixing quantitative and qualitative methods is likely to get me confused. I STARTED making bread about 6 months...	Hello purple campcook I know what you're trying to say. I like purple too. I've got an idea for you. very simple. Change your white wet purple starter to a dry purple one. it will make you happier. Read what I wrote under Prepping a starter. When you prepare your starter the day before you bake, take it out arou...
A Sourdough Observation When I attempted to make a sourdough culture over a year ago, I used something called I believe Gold'n White, the only organic flour my store carried. It was basically whole wheat without the bran. The culture fermented so quickly that by the end of the first day, it was ready for a feeding. ...	I havent made a sourdough I havent made a sourdough culture (I did but I let it slide after a few weeks so I dont have that experience) and I cant remark on this exactly, but I use organic flour.......when it is in stock, and when its not I end up wit hovis, and I get alot of the ideas and differenced between organic a...
Not enough rise I have just recently got into sourdough bread. I have had great success with the no knead method but when i try to make a traditional loaf my second rise never seems to have much lift. Is this normal? My starter is quite healthy. It is not liquid like some ive seen on this site but rather a thick pancak...	not enough rise how long are you fermenting and proofing jimmy? Also, are you going by volume (eg doubling, tripling) when you stop fermenting and form your loaves, or are you going by time. When people first go to a sourdough from having baked with commercial yeast, sometimes there is a learning curve until you real...
Is this normal?? Hi yesterday I started a sourdough starter using Joe Fisher's recipe, today it is doubled in size, and smelling very yeasty, fed it around 7:30 am and it is 25% bigger already, now from what I've read it should not be growing that fast, have I done something wrong?????I am using an organic whole wheat ...	starter behavior starting up... Starter behavior can vary over a wide range during the first days of starting it up. You might be lucky and have it start right up in just a couple of days. However, it is probably more common to have a vigorous rise in the first day or two followed by a day or two of very inactive, quie...
Starting a new sourdough starter Some of you may remember me accidentally using all of my starter in 3 loaves, forgetting to hold some back for the next feeding.I had wanted to start anew for some time, anyway. The starter I was using, while well over a year old at the time, had originally been started from the formul...	You have the same electric You have the same electric scale as I... (I love that little scale. To top unscrews to clean it). My starter is about 2 months old now. Makes great bread. The first few weeks, not so much. From what I learned, as others have too, is to make sure and add only a little bit of the old star...
Starter novice with a few questions Hi all, I recently got a good grape starter going, and have baked several loaves succesfully with it. My question involves the care and feeding of it.At this time, I currently have about 7 to 8 cups of starter in my refrigerator, and I'd like to bring it down to a more manageable am...	Re: Starter novice You are going to have to bite the bullet and get rid of most of that starter! I know it is hard to do, but you really have to. If you continue to feed 1 cup of flour to 8 cups of starter, you are on your way to starving it to death. Feedings should always be, at the very minimum, twice as much flour ...
anyone know about using date paste to enhance the rise? I just came across an intriguing article about it in Ye olde bread blogge. Has anyone here used date paste to enhance the rise? Does it work?-Elizabeth	Here's a link to the full Here's a link to the full article, which I skimmed. The techies among you may enjoy reading this - and even understand it! The addition of 4% date paste improved the keeping qualities of the bread, with better moisture retention and mold inhibition. Improvements were also shown in rising tim...
Aargh! I overheated my starter All summer long, when I fed my starter I set it up in the windowsill. That was just fine until the sun got lower on the horizon. A month or so ago, I fed it in the evening & forgot to keep it away from the window. It was quite warm when I found it the next afternoon. It's been throug...	acetone smell not necessarily a disaster KipperCat,That acetone smell is not unusual for a starter that is just very ripe and needs to be fed. I bet it might bounce back, unless it reached temperatures above 90F for a long time and really was killed off completely. It might help to give it a high ratio feeding with a f...
Preheating dutch oven Hi there, Sorry if this question is redundant , i tried to search this topic on this forum but couldn't find anything. Is preheating your dutch oven for sourdough baking really necessary? I've read it is not. But I've always done it and I'm too scared to not preheat in case my loaf gets wrecked....	Not pre-heating is okay. You can skip pre-heating. But temperatures, as well as times may have to be adjusted.And, the formula itself, especially the proof time, may need adjusting..... because.... the loaf will spend additional time in the oven proofing (ie, the yeast will be working) before the internal temp gets hig...
Jewish Rye finally!!! Finally got the Jewish Rye finished!: Finally got to upload the pics of the starter and the Jewish Rye loaf. Mr Joe said it was exactly like he wanted (a BIG THANK YOU Mark, and all who had input) he said if I did anything, my crust needed to be "crackier" if that is a word! I knew what he meant a...	Jewish Rye starter I told you all my computer skills are terrible, I hope this goes in. The last one is lost in space.Jewish Rye starter: Well, I couldn't get more than one image to load, so I will do this one at the time. Oh bother....
what is a ripe starter? hey there, i usually make pr's basic sourdough which is made from firm starter but i've read lots of recipes here which demand a 100% hydration ripe starter. what is this? i understand 100% hydr. is feeding the starter equal weights of flour and water, right?! like, i feed mine 250gr each flour...	A ripe starter... is a starter that is ready to use. In a firm starter, it will have domed and receded a bit; in a wet starter, it will have started to pucker at the top. When it's ripe, you need to either feed it or use it.SOL
Technical question about starter hydrations I'm full of questions tonight, but this one has baffled my (mathematically trained) brain...I keep a starter at 100% hydration.For the ease of conversation, I'm going to refer to Maggie Glezer's recipe in Artisan Baking - Essential's Columbia.The evening before baking it says...	Firm and wet starters Melissa,I have the same questions. In the past I have played with lot of calculations to make the transformation from wet to dry preferment. But ... you are right. In the end the change in overall hydration is pretty small.So, tonight, two of my three preferments that call for a firm starter are b...
What am I doing wrong? OK I have made some starters before, but I have always cheated and added a pinch of yeast to kick start them.I am trying to make one now without doing that and lets just say that its not going so well.Day 1 : 1 tablespoon of rye flour, 1 tablespoon of whole wheat flour and 2 tablespoons of pineap...	Re: What am I doing wrong (new starter)? It took me four tries to get a starter growing from scratch (organic rye + organic wheat). In fact the fourth one only started growing after I had placed an order with King Arthur for vial of their potion, I mean Vermont Starter (and thus I have two to feed).So I would say if i...
never made sourdough before- I need help! I got a starter from a friend about a week ago. I fed it like she told me and left it out to do it's thing. It wasn't bubbley- is it suposed to be? Anyway, I tried to make sourdough bread a couple of days ago and my dough felt like playdough- it was really soft and squishy. ...	Smilinbrite, re: new starter It doesn't sound like your starter is happy. Was it bubbly when she gave it to you? How much starter do you have and how much did you feed it? Are you feeding with flour and water? Is your water highly chlorinated? You also must dump and discard a large portion of the old starter before you...
temperature is so important The more I read the more I learn. I was worried about my sourdough starter and decided to check it out using bwraith's "maintaining a 100% hydration white flour starter" (#3064) and other blogs. After going through the workings, my starter has jumped and is now nicely active. I realized tha...	Very timely! I just happened to be on the site trolling for a definition of "room temperature". We are very parsimonious about turning on the heat, and it's about 60 degrees in my house right now-- colder upstairs. I'm going to try again to make a pain de campagne that came out a dud the first time I tried, probably be...
Bad Mistake to Make, Yet So Easy to Avoid I may have lost my sourdough.Uh oh.I had a small-ish amount remaining in my container in the fridge and thought that since it hadn't been used in a little while, I'd take all of it out, refresh it, use it as the sponge for a fresh batch while saving a chunk to propagate the cul...	Starter salvage I haven't personally faced this problem. I generally err on the side of keeping way more starter than really makes sense. I have read that all you should need to do is disolve the bits of starter left in your container in water, add flour and re-build it. Good luck! David
could I be lucky enough to elicit some constructive criticism from you guys? Hi!I just started my blog on here, and I'm not actually sure how often people surf those, and I was wonding if maybe some of you out there with a lot more experience than me could critique my pics and answer a few questions I had at the bott...	Looks great don't change a Looks great don't change a thing!!!! However, I do know it's annoying when I am looking for advice and everyone says "looks great don't change a thing!" so I will add this:-When it comes to food blogs; more is better. I would add more step by step. Like when you did your rolls. Try adding...
Miracles do happen 3 mini SD boulesThat's how I felt yesterday when finally my sourdough boules came out exactly the way I like them : Thin and delicately crisp crust, fine textured and moist crumb, light weight, and last but not least, not at all sour but still very flavourful. There is no doubt in my mind that it all...	Very cute. Very cute. I love the blisters.
Is my starter OK? I activated my starter from Northwest Sourdough last week. It was bubbly at first (I feed it for 3 days starter - 1 cup flour, 3/4 cup distilled water). Now it is doing nothing - looks like pancake batter - no bubbles. I keep getting houch (the thin layer of liquid on top) - so I stir that back in....	Feed it! Your starter is hungry! Save about 1/4 c, add about 1/4 water and 1/4 flour (approx, you want it to look like thick pancake batter), and let it go. It should get nice and bubbly again soon. For a really active starter, you should feed it at least once a day, if not more. A lot of people on this site, mysel...
Bakers Percentages Levain Calculator Hi fellow bakers-I maintain a 100% hydration starter, and often find myself using recipes that specify 80% hydration levain. So after many articles about bakers math/percentages, a few things seem apparent when I convert recipes:- For completeness, pre-fermented flour (PFF) and wat...	I am not sure which articles you read on Baker's percentages, but you need to read the technical articles from the Bread Baker's guild of America (at bbga.org) that are available to non-members.Although I am sure that your calculator is great, you make things hard on yourself by not using the factors of "percentage of ...
Bwraith, Zolablue, starter time and temp question? I'm not sure if I should be asking this of Bill or Zolablue (or anyone else that wants to take a whack at it), but I need help!I've been making a much altered version of Mariana's Calvel sourdough with great success for several months now, but with cold weather, I'm ha...	some questions... Edh,The temperature sensitivity of sourdough around 50-55F is enough and the speed is so slow that the time involved might be 20-36 hours for the first build and uncertain for the others too, although maybe you are only worried about the first build?What is your window of time for making the builds? I...
Retarding Dough I really like the idea of retarding sourdough dough as it allows for a lot of flexibility. However every time I have tried this method, when I remove the dough from the refrigerator, it fails to produces any further rise, no matter how long I leave it on the bench to come to room temperature. Also I f...	While most books I've read While most books I've read have suggested forming loaves and retarding them in a fridge for the final proof, I've had similar experiences like yours where somethings would just not go right and the bread would be sub-par. Now, I do a partial bulk fermentation at room temp, and the rest I fini...
mold inside on my starter jar, friend or foe? I know it's cold in my kitchen and my new starter for the Jewish rye bread is just kinda sitting there. But today I noticed mold on the inside of my jar. I took out what I needed to feed and put it in a new container until someone could advise me to keep it or throw it out....	So before today I would have So before today I would have told you 'Sorry pal but it's trash' (see: http://tablebread.blogspot.com/2007/09/when-bad-things-happen-to-good-starters.html)But then today happened... What happened today that changed my mind on all of this?!? Local Breads by Daniel Leader. I just got this b...
how many starters does a gal need? I've been keeping two starters from natural yeast I'm very happy with. One is like a Nancy Silverton grape starter, which I started from unsprayed concord grapes. The other is an apple starter, started from unsprayed Empire apples. Both are working great for me. They're my babies ;...	Starters I must admit its very confusing, I started (no pun intended) with a rye starter from the Andrew Whitley book, this I found I could adapt, and get anything going by adding the type of flour I needed to use i.e. white for white bread, wholemeal for brown and use the same for rye of course. Trouble is different b...
Question about how to recognize ripe levain My sourdough baking has been sporadic but happily improving, sort of...I think... This summer I switched back from a firm to a batter starter. My levain builds generally don't seem to go anywhere, certainly not up, even at twelve hours of 75-80 degrees (in the oven with the l...	how feeding? Browndog,Happy Post Holidays, not a bad time of the year, the way I see it.I have a couple of questions.1) What is your current feeding routine, i.e. ratio of starter to flour to water, and every how often (12 hrs) and at what temperature (75-80F)?2) What type of flour are you using for the feeding?Also, w...
Bread Chemistry Is it redundant to use butter milk in a sour dough recipe? A ) Could that be over doing the sour? B ) Because the buttermilk acidity is sort of a dough conditioner, does the sourdough culture do that too in addition to leavening the bread? C ) In 100% Whole grain bread might all the above be a good thin...	buttermilk substitute for SD starter Ron,I'm no expert on buttermilk. I've never used it in bread. However, as I was reading PR's Whole Grain Breads, the use of buttermilk was mentioned as a substitute for the acidity provided by a sourdough starter. I saw two methods used. In one case he describes using buttermilk to ...
Help! Starter is active...now I need the right bread recipe! Hi,I have ground my own grain and made my own whole grain bread (nothing white) for two years now. I have wanted to do sourdough rye for a long time, and finally decided to try to make a starter. I followed the recip with the 2 T. rye flour and 2 T. pineapple...	Just another note to say Just another note to say that earlier when I went to check my starter, the very gentle moving of it towards me caused it to deflate. Is this good or bad? I was able to see that overnight, it had doubled in size. It never re-inflated, however (in 3 hours) and I went ahead and gave it it's 24 hou...
Do I have to discard excess starter? I've been plagued by this question since beginning my foray into sourdough four months ago. Is it really necessary to toss excess starter or can I use it in my bread making? Example, I've refreshed my starter from the fridge, bread baking formula/recipe calls for one half cup, I h...	There're two possible There're two possible solutions, both of which I utilize. My room temperature starter is fed every 12 hours, but I keep miniscule amounts of it - 5 g is all I take for the refreshment. At this rate I waste about 2# of AP flour a month - a waste I don't like but can tolerate. When I need to use ...
Success - JMonkey's formula for 100% whole grain sourdough hearth breads Whole Spelt Hearth BreadI tried JMonkey's 100% Whole Grain Hearth Bread recipe with slight modification. Here's the recipe I used:100% Whole Spelt Hearth Bread50 grams spelt starter at 100% hydration10 grams salt350 grams water500 grams whole spel...	Beautiful, Andy! Susan from San Diego
100% hydration of whole sourdough starter? I'm trying a sourdough starter with a combination of organic rye and organic wheat berries [gound very fine] and my well water. For convenience I decided try it with 100%, or something close to it, hydration. Are there good reasons not to do this? I just decided it would be ea...	100% hydration- How much is critters? I use a 100% hydrated starter and it works fine. You can adjust hydration when you feed it for bread making or just keep it and adjust your recipe. I've been wondering though is it really 100% hydrated? Or any other hydration level for that matter. If you add equal weights water an...
Is this normal (separation into layers, one of them brown) Several years ago posters here were kind enough to help me get two sourdough starters up and running.One Rye sourdough; the other KAF AP flourFor some time, though, after a few days (both when I stir and when I feed - which is usually weekly) the liquid in each...	Top liquidy layer is called Top liquidy layer is called hooch - basically, alcohol. It forms when the starter is not fed for a while. Either stir it in, or discard - but it's completely normal. Just feed it and it'll be back to normal soon enough, no problems.
BBA's Poilane bread too dense Hi, I tried the Poilane bread from BBA as well as the 100% rye bread from the same book.The loaves came out very tasty, but very heavy and dense.I prepared the started the day before and it stayed in the fridge for the night. The barm was fed the day before I made the starter and really ju...	Dense rye is good rye In general, 100% rye bread should definitely be dense. Less so if you use light rye flour and more so if you use a coarser whole rye or rye meal. In Germany it's really treated as a different food item than what you or I might think of as bread. According to a German friend, a slice of really good...
another starter problem. Mine only likes pineapple water. 1st starter. So I've got a white flour starter (14 days old today) that I've been building for some time now. It smells good, with the occaional 'berry smell'. When I feed, I'll keep half old starter (stirred well) and half white flour, with spring water. Well,...	I 'll take thought # 1 You know it already! Welcome to the site by the way! I think you are slowly starving your #1 starter by keeping too much old starter and not giving it enough flour for 24 hours. Then it goes crazy with the pineapple calorie bomb. Try one part (tablespoon) starter to 3 or 4 parts water and 5 ...
White starter with WW loaf I am getting my first ever starter ready to use this weekend, it will be my first try at sourdough. The thing is I never make white bread always WW. Is it OK to use white starter with WW flour? All of the recipes for WW sourdough I see use WW starter without any explanation why? I don't mind ...	White starter in whole wheat bread It'll work fine! I keep a whole wheat starter because I almost always make 100% whole wheat bread. But I also keep a white starter around because I like to make white breads on occasion as well. Truth be told, all you really need is one starter. Some of us keep multiple starters becau...
New starter now what I am on day 3 of activating a new starter. It seems pretty lively now, lots of bubbles and it was about to overflow so I transferred it to a larger container. It does not smell like much, just very faintly like sourdough. I don't plan to use it until the weekend which is 4 days away. Should I put i...	Re: New starter Keep it at room temperature and continue to feed it so it gets stronger. You don't have to keep large quantities when you are just in maintenance mode. I usually dump out all but a couple of spoonfuls of old starter and then feed 1/2 cup of flour and enough water to make a thick batter. The thicker it i...
Starter is separating in layers and is sluggish My starter is getting a liquid layer that looks like hooch, but it is forming towards the bottom. From the top, there is a bubbly layer of starter, a claer liquid layer, then a more solid, not bubbly layer of flour on the bottom. This recurs even after refreshing, I hav...	Re: Starter separating It is not that unusual for a new starter to do the separating. I have heard that the leuconistic (sp?) bacteria can cause this, although I have never had it happen to me. What kind of flour are you using, and is your water unchlorinated? Are you dumping out most of the starter before you feed? St...
Someones white sourdough loaf Ive just baked someones sourdough recipe cant remeber who's but could be Susans! it goes three quarters cup of starter, same water, 2.5 cups bread flour, 2 tsps oil, i'm sure youll know whos it was. Well what a crackin loaf!!!!!!!! cant wait to do it again.Thanks whoevers recipe it was.Che...	Susan's white sourdough Definitely Susan's recipe! Doesn't it make great bread? Did you use a Pyrex bowl or the much safer stainless steel? Glad you like it, A.
What kind of flour for starter I have never used a starter and recently received some dried sourdough starter.Does it matter what kind of flour I use to start and feed it?Normally I mill my own flour using Prarie Gold wheat. Would it better to use refined bread flour from the store? Thanks - Joel	For restarting and reviving, I prefer white When you are restarting a dried starter, or reviving a weakened one, you want to improve the chances that the starter you restart or revive is the one you want. The number of microorganisms on white flour is far lower than on whole wheat flour. There is a greater chance that...
Newbie Yeast Question - why didn't my dough double in size? Hi, I’m new to bread making, so apologize if my question is rather simplistic. I made my first loaf of general cheese bread – from a random recipe from a cookbook. It called for one packet of yeast but gave the option for two packets if you particularly liked ...	Re: Why didn't my dough double in size? Three things:Yeast, water, and sugar isn't going to double in volume. It might foam up a bit but there won't be any volume increase until you get to the dough stage. Sounds as if those instructions aren't vey well written If your yeast is Instant (sometimes called Bread Machi...
Soudough and Proofing I have just started making sourdough breads, and have tried the recipe for Vermont Whole Wheat Sourdough from Hamelman's Bread a couple of times. I am experiencing a strange situation where there is practically no rise during proofing. I have tried proofing both at room temperature and overnight r...	Sourdough and spring I'm not sure why Hammelman's sourdoughs are like this, but IMO anyway he tends to underproof his sourdoughs so that they get a tremendous, visually appealing oven spring. A 2.5 hour bulk rise at room temperature won't let the dough double, unless you've got some kind of super-powered starter. I thi...
Yooooowhooooo. Um Bill? Anyone? Bill, Day 2 of life and General Chaos aka The Beast is threatening to overspill the weir and is threatening the lives of 1000's of innocents. Due to a terrible mishap in the lab this morning he's grown more powerful than any scientists previously predicted.What do I do to fight this anim...	i Guess I shouldn't have used humor cuz this really was a serious question. But since I didn't hear back from anyone and considering it continued to grow and spread onto my counter I went ahead and made the decision to stir it and then transfered it to a larger container.Thanks for the help guys! :-/
Help! I need a prognosis? Hi there, I had 3 really good bakes and i think i got over confident and decided to change things up. So i promised my co workers 2 loaves of sourdough tomorrow. But i decided to feed my starter 1:2:2 instead of 1:1:1 thinking it would make it stronger. I waited for it to double before usin...	Did you give the starter time Did you give the starter time to at least double? It would take longer with 1:2:2 feed than 1:1:1.
Does yeast fly ... ?? ... or, more precisely, does anyone have experience taking active starter on a vacation by air [to bake with at the in-laws' for Thanksgiving, fer instance. ;7) ]Thanks, - Richardwww.oldWithoutMoney.comRecent bread porn:http://www.oldwithoutmoney.com/sourFrenchCrust1a.JPGhttp://www.oldwithoutmone...	I know I can do it -- but will the colony still be frisky? I know that I'm able to put the starter in a container and take it on the plane ... I'm just wondering if anyone has actually done it and can advise whether the organisms suffer unduly from the change in altitude (in which case I'll just bring some Instant ...
How long can you refrigerate dough? I usually refrigerate my formed, raw sourdough loaves for their 2nd ferment, usually overnight. If wrapped properly in plastic to prevent moisture loss, could I keep them in the fridge an extra day? Anyone had experience trying this with success (or failure)?	indeed... i have restricted indeed...i have restricted myself solely to using freshly ground WW.the only success that i have had with gluten development for open crumb has been to leave the dough in the refrigerator for 24-48 hrs.but this is the longest that i have allow dough to sit without yeast, past this point with...
Seeking an Apple Cider Starter recipe Hi,Today, while my grandchildren were visiting, I discovered that I have a gallon of apple cider that is no longer sweet cider. By the time the boys (2 1/2 and 6 1/2) left, I thought of consuming it but then again I thought of how could I use this to make a starter. Since I do hav...	Hard cider? Do you mean that it's fermenting? Remove the lid and stretch a balloon over the opening so the bottle won't explode from a build up of CO2 gas. Let it sit a while longer. Great mixed with mineral water 50/50 to drink. If you use it for starter, let it settle, pour off the clear juice to drink (it can con...
a nice LIGHT sourdough recipe?? Greetings -Can anyone recommend a nice LIGHT sourdough recipe.Most of what I've created over the past four years or so tend towards the heavier side.Thanks. - Richardwww.oldWithoutMoney.com	Lighter sourdough Hi Richard, If by "heavier" you mean dense with small holes in the crumb, what you want is a more "open" crumb. Several variables under your control can be manipulated. The most basic change in your recipes would be to use more water (higher hydration). You also need: 1. good gluten development (ad...
desem bread Hello I just finally got logged in. This web site has crashed my browser [surfari mac os X ] more times in one day than it has in 5 years. I switched browsers to get going. I have baked my third desem bread batch a few days ago and am pretty pleased with the result. But I have questions so I hope there are ...	Hi Ron Welcome to the Hi Ron Welcome to the group.I started my Desem about 5 days ago, so it is still buried in flour. I am adhering to the instructions in Laurel's book. Living here in Malaysia its HOT. I am keeping the flour and the starter in the vegetable compartment of my refrigerator which is set to 50 Deg. and...
100% hydration whole wheat sourdough Greetings All, This somehow happened in my wife's kitchen. Perhaps it was the chowder on the stove. This is a 100% Hydration, 100% whole wheat bread with 100% whole wheat 100%hydration starter.Pertinants:200g fresh ground Wheat Montana Prarie Gold.200g tap water and .5 tsp salt flou...	want comments on ww sourdough I would love to hear any input on this subject! WW starters/sourdough are a definite interest to me.
Firm Starter 5° I took my cold starters, 20g each and added 40g water and 100g low gluten flour and mixed. Kneaded the crumbs into balls and put them into containers and parked then into the 5° (41°F) fridge. My plan is to do a cool rise first to encourage the Lactobacillus and do a warm rise later for the yeast. Al...	Firm starter So I'm back! Did not find anything I could use for bread but was enjoying Shanghai. Too busy being a tourist. What a difference a few hours makes! Trains and subways can be fun and we were all over the place! The Old Town is worth it. Wish the architects would use Chinese elements in their newer build...
Couldn't resist .... I'm a whole-wheat kind of guy and usually that's all I make. But at the Fresh Loafer's meet-up, like Floyd, I was really taken by Crumb Bum's miche. And not only me. My wife, Aurora, who is just as big on the whole-wheat kick as I am, said, "Umm, honey? You think you could make that? You know, not ...	I have always wanted to make whole wheat If not 100% because of the courseness of it (usually my opinion, but not your bread), then a significant percentage. I really liked the desem bread you brought, didn't find it dry at all. But then, I haven't had what you would call your best. Still, it beat the pants off my rye ...
JMonkey - rise time thoughts JMonkey,I had some thoughts on all this rise time stuff.Everyone's starter is different, but I find that a 10% inoculation of starter takes about 10-12 hours for the first rise at about 70 degrees, and then another 2.5 to 3 hours or so for the final proof. But many professional bakers, I th...	Thanks, Bill Very, very interesting stuff. I'll try 15% next time I make sourdough and see how it goes. Lately, I've been working with commercial yeast, for a change. Made an anadama bread yesterday which tasted nice, but looked really, really ugly.One of the great things about working from home is that it's easy to ba...
Using commercial yeast with starter... and other questions. I noticed there are some recipes that require commercial yeast in addition to making an overnight biga, While others don't use commercial yeast and depend only on the starters yeast. Why is this? More of a rise? would there not be a trade off between taste?A...	Comm yeast/starter Mikeofaustin,An active sourdough starter will rise dough as well as commercial yeast, if you are willing to wait a little longer. Depending on how active your starter is and what temperature the dough is it could be a lot longer. Speaking for my self here, but I think others would agree, SD starter g...

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