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Converting from wheat to rye I have a good wheat sourdough starter that works very well and was wondering if I started to refresh a part of this with rye flour, could I convert it over to a straight rye starter? This would save time and effort in trying to create a rye starter from scratch.	Yes, you can! Hi, Ricko. If you feed your wheat starter 2-3 times with rye, you will have a rye starter. In fact, some just keep one starter and convert it each time they make another kind of bread. BTW, you can convert a rye sour to a white sourdough in the same fashion. David
Help with sourness I’ve been working on my sourdough bread for a few months now and I’m pretty happy with it now, the crumb and ear is good but I can’t seem to develop any sour tang.My last attempt was to add some whole wheat to see it that would do the trick but neither my wife nor I could taste if that helped at all....	Sourdough is about the methode not the taste Sometimes when I mention sourdough bread people respond with no I dont like sourdough bread. Usally because the think sourdough bread has a very dense strong tasted flavor. But that is is just one type of sourdough bread. So does sourdough bread have to taste sour?No it does...
Bernard Clayton's Breads of France --Poilaine loaf I have been using this recipe for my Poilaine miche. I have looked at the BA recipe and wonder at the huge difference in the two. I am not "wasteful" and hate the idea of throwing away so much flour. I have read a lot of the posts here and several others have said the ...	Poilane-style miches Hi, trailrunner. I don't have Clayton's book, but I've made the Reinhart and the Leader versions of pain Poilane many times. Can you post Clayton's recipe or describe the "huge difference in the two?" How are you wasting flour? David
How early can I use the poolish I started the poolish for the Pain de Provence this morning, and was hoping to use it for dinner tonight. (Meant to start it last night, but forgot). What is the earliest I can use it? The recipe says 8 - 16hrs, but I just dont know if I have that kind of time. Any advice?	You can use it when it is You can use it when it is ready - unfortunately I don't have a better way to put it. It is ready when the surface becomes very bubbly and a wrinkled. The exact time depends on temperature and the amount of yeast you added, for 8 hour poolish typical amount would be 0.3% of instant yeast at r...
Refrigerated sourdough discard jar I've read many suggestions for what to do with the discard rather than throwing it out: pizza crusts, sourdough pancakes (did those this weekend -- YUM!!!!) and english muffins.Do you need to feed the discard jar as often as the main refrigerated starter jar?PS Take pity on me, pleas...	Discard can starve! Half the fun in maintaining a starter, being so responsible with it and feeding it, is seeing how unattentive one can be with the discard. The "other side of the coin" so to speak. Discard can starve, after all, it is discard. After I'm done with my starter and a tablespoon has been fed to keep i...
wholewheat and 'sourness' Hi Everyone I try to cook with as much wholemeal I can get away with, but I noticed that when I approach 100% wholemeal making sourdough, the bread becomes much more sour. This is just a little too sour for my tastes. Here is how I made the dough: Feed the starter an leave to grow overnight ...	WW and sour Edthebread, I have no clue as to the "why", but I have noticed a connection between sourness and whole wheat, too. Some of the most intensely sour (way more than I enjoy eating) sourdoughs that I have made had significant whole wheat content. Let's see what the community brain trust can come up with. Paul
A few detailed starter questions So here I am on day 7-8 with a starter that is seemingly unresponsive. I have been following the pineapple starter recipe. Thre have been no bubbles and no growth. Everyday, halfway between feedings, it gets glassy and then looks curdled or dimpled under the surface. It later gets a ...	Here you go... There are a number of common problems people have when they start a starter. I'll risk boring you by rambling through all I can think of. There is a lot more information about starting a starter on the sourdoughhome web page at http://www.sourdoughhome.com/startingastarter.html and this is from http://...
overnight recipe with starter I know there is a way, but I'm getting a bit lost in a sea of too much information trying to figure out what to do if I would like to start a loaf of bread the night before and cook it in the morning. I have a well started and well fed sourdough starter. I have up to 4 hours to play with...	overnight You can do the first rise overnight and then shape, rise and bake the next day. Just this last week I put the dough in the refrigerator for a couple of days and then shaped it and let it rise overnight and baked it in the morning. That worked really well and gave me a very nice chewy sourdough Boule. jeff
Sourdough fountain of youth? This is just something I've noticed since I started making and eating sourdough bread regularly for the past 8 months or so: my gray hair is growing in quite dark at the roots. I first noticed my eyebrows had become darker a couple of months ago, but sure enough, the hair on my head is no...	Hope you're right I hope you're right. I'll watch this thread with interest. I know from experience that when adding ground seaweed (kelp) to our Border Collie's food it kept his coat dark; but don't try it, as it tastes awfull! :-)
No Oven Spring From SF Sourdough Hi Everyone, I made the SF Sourdough from Crust and Crumb and got very little oven spring. The recipe as many of you know call for long and refrigerated fermentation. I did not use a high gluten flour..used KAF bread flour. Day 1- make firm starter from barm and ferment for 6-8 hours...	Was it fully risen after the final fermentation? Bill, was your bread fully risen when you took it out of the cooler? If so, bringing it to room temp could have resulted in the lack of spring. I don't have Crust and Crumb but do have other books by Reinhart, as well as Lepard, Glazer, Leader and Hamelman. In my house...
Looking for a Biga recipe!!! HELP!! Dear Freshloavers, I am looking for a good Biga recipe , I want to make panettone using Biga, would you please help me to get good one. Thanks to you all & have a nice day!! http://chahirakitchen.blogspot.com/	Biga recipe Chahira, This is from the BBA and is the one I use. I'll give you Oz and grams as well as volume. Bread flour 2-1/2 Cups 11.25 Oz. 319 gramsInstant Yeast 1/2 teaspoon .055 Oz 1.6 gramsWater 3/4 Cup plus 2 T@ room temp 7-8 Oz 198-215 grams ...
Mad Scientist Bread made from excess starter This is a post I created elsewhere and thought I would post here as well just to get some feedback. It is my first post at TFL, though I have been lurking on the fringes for a bit. I got into sourdough baking roughly 18 months ago and have gleaned much from this site. I also...	Excellent Love the style you used in this post. The delayed addition of salt is top secret. ;-)Nice job.
How do I improve crumb structure? Hello everyone,I'm relatively new to sourdough baking, and this is my second loaf. I'm using a 50/50 rye starter fed daily, and a 70% hydration dough for this particular bake. I suspect that the spread of very large holes is because the dough was underfermented, but if anyone else has ...	Yes there are large holes Which can be a sign of under fermentation however they're usually surrounded by a very dense crumb which i'm not seeing. I think this is down to more de-gassing needed when shaping knocking out the larger air bubbles. That is an excellent second loaf. Here is a photo of an under fermented loaf...
Understanding culture elaboration In BREAD 2nd edition, p148-149, he discusses the process for scaling up your starter significantly (aka, "elaborating" your starer). He offers a pseudo-scientific explanation for why this is optimal for the yeasts and bacteria in the culture, which, OK... sure! If it works, it works. T...	culture elaboration I think he is speaking from experience, although he himself reduced the 2-step elaboration from Calvel (who reduced it from the traditional French 3 step elaboration to the modern 2 step elaboration) to one step-elaboration himself when he created his recipe for Vermont Sourdough Bread, where he bui...
Sourdough and Chemotherapy An odd question.... I have a relative who is coming to visit who is undergoing chemotherapy. Their white blood cell count is very very low, but they might be coming anyway. Is there any risk to them with the sourdough cultures I have on my counter OR me working the sourdough and making brea...	chemotherapy Any germs dangerous to your relative will come from the people, not the sourdough. Carry on kneading! Patsy
sourdough/starter Hello. I am looking for a bread recipe where I can make a spone/starter either the night before or in the morning and then use this starter in the loaf that day. In other words, I don't want to keep a starter to feed, I want a starter to use immediately. Thanks for any recipes. sandy	Hi Sandy, It sounds like what Hi Sandy, It sounds like what you're looking for is a poolish or a biga. Those are preferments that you start the night before, but they are not "starters" in that they use commerical yeast. There isn't any instant way to get a naturally fermented starter, that I know of. A poolish or a...
Nancy silverton rye starter So I am in the process of making a rye starter from Silvertons book I wonder something. For the second feeding the book says the starter should be stiff dry and hard to stir. So the problem I am having is it is just runny and bubbly. I don't know if this is a problem or not follow the rec...	:))) I spent half an hour :))) I spent half an hour last Sunday going through her recipe for rye starter, trying to calculate hydration. I don't think I have ever seen more byzantine procedure. If I didn't know any better I'd think making a starter is black magic. It's a very good book, but there's a reason why it i...
I finally did it! I finally, FINALLY managed to get a good open crumb! I bake my 100% WW sandwich bread (5 loaves at a time of it) every week, and I think my problem with too dense a crumb is overhandling, and under kneading. That said, I finally managed what I consider a nice, open crumb, for the first time EVER...	Great job, TE I enjoyed your post, TigerEyess! Congratulations from someone else! Very nice job. It's great when things work the way you hope, isn't it? I've had that late oven spring happen too, after you figure it ain't goin' anywhere, you look in and WHAM! thar she blows! I am finding that the cloche technique softe...
when to refrigerate a refreshed starter I've read different recommendations about when to refrigerate a refreshed starter, ranging from immediately to after it has peaked, and stages in between. I'm a bit of a worry-wort anyway, I don't need to fret everytime I open the 'fridge and peer at my starter, so I need to ma...	You got it right Hi Paul, I think there's probably a fair amount of latitude on this subject. Sourdough cultures seem to be extremely hardy to me, so far. That said, your approach sounds like the one to use. On one end of the spectrum Hamelman is very explicit: NEVER refresh a starter and then immediately refrigerate i...
starter help hi all...i found arecipe 1 pk active dry yeast 1/2 c warm water 2 c warm water 2 c all purpose flour 1 tb sugar or honey dissolve 1 pkg active dry yeast in 1/2 cup warm water.Stir in 2 cups warm wat...	Ditch the recipe Don't know where you found that recipe, but it should be tossed in the trash because it instructed you to let the mix stand for five to ten days without ever refreshing it! Your poor starter has starved and the yellow liquid is called hootch. All you need to create a SD starter is flour, water, and a b...
New recipe: Whole Wheat Sourdough Whole Wheat Sourdough (Pictures below)OK, this is another long description. Skip down to the pictures if you like.This bread, which I'm happy to say worked out nicely, was new for me for several reasons. 1) Using 30% whole wheat flour was a significant change, as I have been sticking p...	Very Nice Soundman! Very nice job David. You really put yourself out for that post, very nice detail. I see your crumb is cooked nicely all the way through! HeheheI especially like #2 crumb where the crust is a little thinner. Seriously, very nice looking WW sourdough.Eric
Sourdough, Take Two This weekend I baked the second batch of bread from my newly-minted sourdough starter (so new I haven't named it yet). The first batch was edible, although the crust was not as crisp as I would have liked, and the holes in the crumb were uniform.My second attempt fared much better. The crust was c...	Great looking loaf! That looks like a perfect loaf! Congrats!Eli
sourdough starter confusion Hi, I am trying a stiff starter for the first time --Maggie Glezer's. I have always made a liquid starter that works fairly well, but I tend to neglect it in the fridge for too long. So, I am trying the one from A Blessing of Bread. I am a bit confused about a few things though I am trying t...	Starter help Hi, Chaya Rivka. I have not used Maggie Glezer's stiff starter, but I may be able to help you. I assume that, by "the last feed," you mean the last feed before storing. If you are using the procedure in "A Blessing of Bread," I find Glezer's instructions quite clear. On page 88 (of the hard cover edition),...
terminology In the 'fridge I have what I call my "starter", at 100% hydration, which I believe it is generally referred to as a "liquid starter" . I mix 20 grams of that with 40 grams of water and 40 grams of flour to produce 100 grams of "XXX". I add 100 grams of flour and 100 grams of water to that after it's doubl...	Starter terminology We probably don't have precise terms because the baking process is not standardized. If we could agree on one authority, it would be simpler, but there are just too many traditions to have common terminology. it seems to me that there are three stages that would be useful to have names for: the stor...
Need some help making a naturally leavened croissant. I have spent the better part of a month trying to get this done. A Piece of Bread in tasmania has accomplished this and put their formulas up on a drop box. I have been following this feeding schedule leading up to the leaven for the dough. IngredientsReg feed (12 h...	I’m far from an expert... ... but your solution may be to manipulate your levain.I read a bit here that you can make your levain more osmotolerant by adding sugar to it:http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/19670/it-possible-create-osmotolerant-sourdoughI’ve no idea if that’s the solution to your problem or not, but you mig...
Baking the bread Can anyone help me. I have been baking plain sourdough bread for about a year, now. I had great success with the no-knead recipes, but have decided to try some other recipes. When I tried to bake a sandwich loaf, the crust got very thick and hard. I decided to put the loaf pan and all, into my cas...	190F = done I'm not sure why you wanted an internal temp above 190F for a sandwich loaf. Did your recipe call for a higher temp? Was it a specific recipe for sandwich type loaf? At what temp did you bake the loaf? The hard crust may have been caused by baking it in too hot an oven. Sandwich bread also has additiona...
Favoirte Recipes Using Starter? - Needing Inspiration Hi Everyone!! I began a starter in April with the help of folks here and have been making consistently good sourdough bread since. I bake some type of bread about 2x a month and try to use my sourdough in at least on one of these. My starter seems very hardy and t...	Sourdough... Take a look on Mike Avery's web site: sourdoughhome.com. He has been a frequent poster here and has some great recipes..Sourdough English muffin bread, sourdough blueberry muffins, as well as tips for converting recipes from yeast to sourdough.Betty
Baking the bread Can anyone help me. I have been baking plain sourdough bread for about a year, now. I had great success with the no-knead recipes, but have decided to try some other recipes. When I tried to bake a sandwich loaf, the crust got very thick and hard. I decided to put the loaf pan and all, into my cas...	Try lowering the temp... For sandwich loaves I cook them at 350 to 375. I have found if I cook them at higher temps the crust is too hard. I have not tried putting them in a cast iron dutch oven. I just bake them on the pans on the oven racks. So I don't know if the dutch oven is playing a roll in the crust as well...
Vermont Sourdough Texture or What is stiff? Hi, I've been reading this site for a couple of months and have learned a ton. Thanks everyone for sharing. I have a question about Hamelman's Vermont Sourdough. I recently got a scale and this was my first attempt at following a recipe with percentages. I only wanted t...	Vermont Sourdough -- stiff dough?? I was set up to make the final dough for this recipe this morning for the first time, so I thought I would get it to the autolyse stage before I commented.I wonder -- is there any possibility you forgot to add the salt after the autolyse? Adding it would stiffen the dough noticeably. ...
Question about my starter... I finally went and made another starter after my first 2 (!) died on me. This third one seems to be doing quite well in its old glass Eden salt container. I did have a surprise this morning, however.I decided to try leaving it for a couple days without feeding. I stirred twice a day. Wh...	Oh, and one other thing. Right now I'm keeping 1 tablespoon of the starter, then feeding with 40 grams of water and 50 grams of flour per weight. I put this at a very managable 80% hydration.
reinhart starter question HI, I am doing the rye starter, form the reinhart whole grain baking book. On Sunday at 10 pm I started it up, now today (tuesday at 11 am I noticed it was a bubbly, at 3 m I decided to start phase two, since I was unsure if it really mattered. So I was wondering, does the grain seed (star...	reinhart starter question Sparkie, I would recommend following Reinhart's directions precisely. New starters often have a "spike" of fermentation activity towards the beginning of the process. Reinhart explains that this is due to a bacteria that behaves like yeast. If you keep feeding it for a few more days, the bacte...
2-Stage Detmolder technique AgroEast Baking & Milling Co. in Kiev Ukraine is DESPERATELY looking for a description of the 2-Stage Detmolder process for its bakery in Kiev, Ukraine. The normal 3-State Detmolder will not fit into the logistics and production schedule; we need 8-10 hours for the final build before mixing ...	First build in 2-phase First build in 2-phase method is at least 15 hours, second - around 3 hours, so that won't help your schedule much. If you don't mind me asking what's wrong with traditional soviet technologies? They have 2 and 3-stage procedures with 8-12 h final builds, and I'm sure a qualified baker from one...
Did my starter die? Did my starter just die without clear cause? I used it last week to make the 1,2,3 recipe suggested by another poster and it was fine. I fed it as usual and it turned a light beige/yellow color and got a bad, yogurty smell over the next 12 hours. I fed it again and it did not rise. It has been ...	Starter dying A healthy starter will not just up and die in a week's time. There is something else going on. What kind of water are you using? If it is city water, maybe your water treatment plant added too much chemicals for it. If they use chloramines, it can be especially bad for wild yeast. Was your starter origina...
My first starter Hi there,I am very excited to be building my first sourdough starter, or the seed culture, here in Cyprus. I am following Reinhart's Crust & Crumb recipe, where you start off with whole wheat, water, malt, honey & organic raisin juice, and keep feeding for another 4 days using the 4/3 white flour ratio...	Here's a link that may help http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/2390/firm-starter-glezer-recipeHoward
Sourdough Flaxseed Currant Bread This is my second ever sourdough attempt. The recipe is adapted from Susan from the Wild Yeast Blog and converted to use with sourdough. Here are the modifications I made: Instead of making the poolish, I made a 100% hydration levain from my stiff WW sourdough starter to equal the amo...	They still look very nice They still look very nice through those blurry pictures! And I'm sure they tasted great. I'll go take a look at Susan's recipe. The sourdough must have made your bread lovely.Jane
Loaf to de-stress Work has been challenging as of late, so decided to bake a loaf to destress. 78% hydration yielded a delicious loaf. Crumb was a little tighter than I'd like, but happy with the result overall.	Lol, one of the few, very few Lol, one of the few, very few, with a decent crumb. Good to see one every now and then! Enjoy!
Mature Culture, From Bread by Hamelman I am beginning to bake from Jeffrey Hamelman's book Bread, have had two wonderful successes, but am terribly confused on how to come up with 2 tablespoons of mature culture required for the Whole-Wheat Levain as described on p 168.I don't have to buy the mature culture, right?I ne...	Mature culture in Hamelman Hi AW,I'm glad you're digging into 'Bread', as I think it's probably the best, most in-depth bread book for the serious homebaker.You're absolutely right about the mature culture required for the WW levain. In order to make the levain, you'll have to mix two tablespoons of a mature culture wi...
ergot? danger danger danger It occured to me that we use rye a lot and if we make a mother /seed culture with it, do we risk getting dosed with ergot, the stuff that make our brains go gaga and see pink elephants? Silly question I am sure, but heck this is the place to ask it. sparkie	Cleaned grain When the grain is cleaned, all the junk incluing ergot is sorted out. If your grain is fresh from the field, look it up and learn about it so you can pick it out. Mini O
When does "starter" become "dough"? Suppose that I was making a dough that required 50 grams of starter for 500 grams of flour at a 75% hydration ratio. Also that my recipe requires me to add the salt after the first fermentation has doubled the dough. Couldn't I just change my mind before the salt is added and put t...	starter vs dough Hi Pablo,I've been enjoying your posts, as we are often on parallel tracks, both in terms of experience and direction we are taking our baking. I just realized the other day, after receiving the first test recipe from Peter Reinhart, that I haven't used anything but sourdough in the last 6 months or so...
Timing The Build A recent post got me interested in what other people do to get bread ready for a specific time http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/9165/belated-intro#comment-47033 This is really the only part of the process that gives me any apprehension, I'm never sure if I will get bread ready for when I want it Start ...	This is what I normally This is what I normally do...and I hope this will help you plan if I know I am about to have a long day and still want bread for dinner for the next day, I will start my polish tonight so I can plan about 3 hours of working/cooling time before dinner. Or if that is not an option, you can...
Comments on English Muffin making experience I just finished making the English Muffin recipe on the Sourdough Home site and have a few comments. First of all, let me say how forgiving bread can be. I got distracted/ interrupted while mixing it up and did not put in the salt and baking soda. Luckily, I discovered it be...	Parchment paper only Parchment paper only releases when exposed to heat, so uncooked dough will stick to it the same way it sticks to wax paper. You may to try a little pan spray or vegetable oil on the wax paper. brad
I have flat sourdough... makes for a great door stop!... .Help!! Hi everyone! I am a sourdough virgin and I think I need some help… I have created a starter that is two weeks old, keeping it in a warm place and feeding it ½ four and ½ bottled water every day… I did not add any yeast to this starter just salt suga...	Sourdough Virgin A few months from now you can say, "Once I was a sourdough virgin...and today a sourdough ... lover!" Well looks to me like underdeveloped yeast action and maybe over mixing. There is a lot of detail missing. Have you baked it already?Try a shorter mixing time and then let your mixed up dough rest...
work/home test so i made george greensteins country sourdough today and i baked one off at home and the other at work today i thought i would share the results and the comparative differences between the two using a steam injected commercial oven and a home oven here are the picturessourdough greensteins this is baked ...	There was a whole discussion There was a whole discussion a while back about getting better baked bread with home ovens. People bake the bread under different types of metal pans and bowls to trap the steam in a smaller space. You could find the topic pretty easily or maybe someone can provide a link. Steve talks about...
Essential's Columbia I believe that's what it is called. I have made this bread a couple of times now but the second time I had issues. In case you don't know the bread it is from ABAA and it has AP, bread, ww and, rye flours it also has wheat germ and barley malt and of course a firm levain type starter. This is no...	Frustrating Hi JIP, I have been there and it is frustrating.I have never baked Essential's Columbia, though I read Glezer with glee and thought the pictures of this bread were mouth-watering. I saw your post a couple of days ago and hoped other bakers of this bread would jump in. I'm a little disappointed too that they...
Basic starter question I've finally gotten a rise out of my stiff dough levain (from Leader's book titled "Local Breads"). The trick was to raise the room temperature from 76F to 80F. I've switched now to 'refreshing' the starter and/or preparing for baking. One point from the book isn't too clear to me. Once I hav...	Basic starter answers In the first 3 to 4 days in the refrigerator, use it straight and after standing longer, it might be better to to repeat the feeding and wait the 8 -12 hours. If you decide to wait out the week, pay attention as days go by for any hootch or signs that the starter is underfed. Remember your sta...
Not enough Levain? Hi all, I purchased Leader's 'Local Bread' book and found his older book, 'Bread Alone' at the local library. I've made my stiff firm levain following the instructions in the Local Bread book and the instructions for refreshing it makes a total of about 200 g of levain. This is enough for a single ...	Re: Not enough levain Yes, you can double the feeding amounts. Many people prefer to do it in two feedings, though. If you do one larger feeding it will take longer to proof your levain than if you gave it the original amounts, so allow for that.
'Dip and Dab' Polenta Sourdough Inspired by Alan's Polenta Levain blog who in turn was inspired by a recipe from kingdombread-tampa on YouTube I decided to give it a whirl. My intentions weren't to stray from the original recipe but of course it morphed, or should I say evolved, into this somewhat different method.The...	Ingenuity at its finest! Ingenuity at its finest! Looks like it turned out great and I love the color and gloss to the crust.Tip of a teaspoon... Do you think you had even a full gram? That's a potent starter! :-) And... It brings up some interesting possibilities for the "busy baker".
when to retard glezer sourdough challah? i'm trying the 'my sourdough challah' of maggie glezer. i refreshed my starter over night and now mixed up the sourdough starter per her recipe. she says to let that ferment for 8-12 hours. that would put me at about 8 pm tonite. well, then the timing is mix the final dough, fer...	I would shape it and put it I would shape it and put it into the fridge at that point.Exactly how long it'll take to come to a full proof when removed from the fridge is a bit trickier to determine, as it will do some proofing while it is in there and it also depends on your kitchen temp when it comes out, as well as t...
blah tasting sourdough Hello to all, I am new here, so I'm hoping to get some good advice.About two months ago, I initiated my first starter. After about three weeks of feeding it, it took on a very pleasant and sharp aroma.So after I figured that I'd created enough for the recipe I'd use it in, I went ahead and made a...	You'd need to provide You'd need to provide details on how you created your starter, how you're maintaining it, and most importantly, how you made the loaf, before we can even wager a guess. :)
jalapeno sourdough ; ) sucsess with my experiment what i did was add red jalapenos ,rosemary ,thyme and oregano to my sourdough and out comes some awesome bread , i like that hot stuff , hehe here are some pics mmmspicynot too spicy still useing those darn loaf pans , but hey i am a sandwich lover	Hmmm!!! Spicy!!! That looks so good!! I am a fan of the spicy too. I am still harvesting the Habanero right now. Would you share the recipe? Toasted with some real mozerella or havarti cheese. Eli
Does Glossy crumb equal Sour? I have noticed that my sour tasting loafs tend to have glossy lustrous holes. Less sour seems to lack the luster. Whaddaya Think? Come on...is there a connection?Mini O	Lustre I would have to agree with you! The ones I produce that are the best are the ones with a translucency to the crumb.
Sourdough Starters Hi,I just had a question on sourdough starters.I was just wondering if there is any real difference in using liquid starter in place of a stiff starter and just adding more flour in the final dough to compensate. I feel like converting my liquid starter is a pain. Hehe, didnt mean to make that pun ;)...	Great Recipe -Susan again! I also like a liguid starter. I can't tell you the specific hydration, I just go by its look. Mine looks (as I think Sourdoughlady says) like a thick pancake batter. My hands down favorite, no-fail recipe is from Susan in San Diego and is as follows:3/4C starter3/4C water2 1/2C flour2 1/4t...
Bread or regular flour Just wondering what type of flour is better for feeding sourdough starter. Regular or bread? Thanks for any input. Jim	It really doesn't care. It really doesn't care. Yeast consume sugars broken out from the starches in the flour... the gluten levels will have little effect on them. I feed mine AP and it's quite happy.
leftover sourdough starter I always have leftover starter from when I refresh or feed my two starters every week, or every two weeks when I'm so busy with other things. I save it in the refrigerator -- sometimes I use it -- sometimes I compost it when it's been looking at me for too long. This time I just gave the 200 ...	Great job Sounds like you know how to create your own thing and that amazes me. Very nice. weavershouse
well here they are there getting better sourdough is this what we call boules sorry i haven't been on much been taking care of my mom she fell and broke 4 ribs ouch !!! well i've started working with real wet dough maybe to wet lol but it makes great bread not sure how to classify the hydration of the dough bu...	hay that looks good. I hay that looks good. I hope your mom is ok broken ribs hurt. and every time you breath they remind you about it.hay here is a trick i use if i think that my dough is to small for my pan i grab a bunch of foil and bunch it up into a ball grease it and us it to fill up the space in my pan. you c...
need advice on maggie glezer sourdough starter i need somee advice on the maggie glezer sourdough starter. i am at the part where i have firmeed up the starter and it is a round ball. she says after one day of fermentation like this it will not have risen at all but will be very gooey. she says to refresh and continue....	Are you just converting some Are you just converting some of your stndard starter or starting fresh?. I did the conversionadn it has worked very well for me. It takes a few days to get the levain up to strength for baking but is well worth it. From what I remember as soon as I made the conversion the levain was doug...
Feeding ferment (Bertinet method) - how much to take out/replenish? I'm doing the best I can to follow Richard Bertinet's sourdough method set out in "Crust." One thing I'm quite confused about is the volume of ferment. I bake about once per week. Bertinet suggests you should have 800g ferment; take out 400g for two lo...	Assumption @ejkessel Yes. The assumption is that you will discard most of your "ferment" and just save enough to feed back up to 800 g. I don't have "Crust" (the book), but I suspect you are misinterpreting Bertinet's instructions. Look for his instructions for feeding the ferment. It sounds like he wants you to make i...
Normal maintenance feeding So I have been on a regular schedule of once a week feedings if I am not baking. Since I have made a firm starter and have been bakign with that lately I am pretty much just feeding my regular starter to maintain it. The feedings I have been doing are 1c 120g AP flour 120g spring water 120g...	YES JIP,I am currently keeping just 60 grams of starter. That's about 2 ounces, and it's working fine. I keep 10 grams of starter and these days I am refreshing with 20 grams of water and 30 grams of flour. The flour is a mix of AP and Whole wheat. When I build my final levain I use up to 50 grams of starter and refres...
Can I get an active starter from a 30 yr old packet of dehydrated Sourdough Jack starter? I went to a flea market and saw an original Sourdough Jack pint container with the paper tag still on it and, lo and behold, the original plastic packet of dehydrated starter is inside-completely undisturbed, along with instructio...	What the heck... You can follow the directions that came with it - or you could try selling it on eBay.Was there a date stamped anywhere on the jar or paper?
What am I doing wrong? So here's the thing, I'm no expert, but I can definitely bake a tasty loaf of bread. Most times, my bread comes out as I expect it to, or at least pretty darn close to it. I have always baked with gasp volume measurements, but since reading so much about how weight is better, I have tried fol...	Weighing is only a tool Marni, even if you weigh everything (though yeast and salt are used in such small quantities for most home baking that spoon measures are better), you must not forget about your dough sense. Your other recipes succeeded because you adjusted the flour and liquid. I like weights because I grind ...
Buy Fresh Buy Local Today the restaurant I work for hosted a buy fresh, buy local dinner. I baked some local sourdough for the event and also made some peach/honey ice cream. I baked nine loaves, more than I have ever made before. I used Vermont Sourdough Bread with Whole Wheat from Hamelman's Bread book. Here are a fe...	Terrific The loaves look great. I make the same sourdough most weekends. I make one free form like yours and the other using in a pan. Have you tried the alternative in Hamelman’s book by replacing the wheat with rye? It’s fabulous!Regards,Gavin
Adding yeast to a sourdough challah recipe (Glezer)? I was planning to make Glezer's "my sourdough challah" tomorrow (for the first time), and had started refreshing my starter. It now turns out that I will have to be out of the house tomorrow, so must do my baking today. What I'd like to do is still use Glezer's start...	challah sourdough Sorry this is so late, Beth, I just saw your post. I have frequently mixed a small amount of yeast sponge into a sourdough starter. Unless you are a purist, this makes, depending on the recipe, a very high, crispy sourdough with a great crust and crumb. However, use less yeast than you normally would ...
new loaves ok guys the weekend is comming up and and i'm almost out of bread so i need to make more ,hehe so i need some info on my starter, i took it out of the fridg and i had about a half a cup so i threw half out and feed it 1/2 cup flour and water does that sound close to right , and i keep that going til...	I think that's pretty I think that's pretty close. You might have jumped the gun a little. I bet it'll work just great. If the starter is bubbly now you should put it somewhere cool so it doesn't get all excited and eat everything before you're ready to bake it. Maybe feed it a little more, too (not TOO much - you ...
FIrst starter. I really like to do things the hard way.So I started a starter yesterday with 1/2 cup water and 1/2 cup flour. This morning it had doubled, and smelled faintly yogurty. Good sign, right? So today, for the first feeding, I reserved 1/2 the previous day's mixture and put in 3/4 cup flour and 1/2 cup wat...	Pancakes and other yummies Take a couple tablespoons of the starter, refresh that portion in a lesser quantity, and use the discard for pancakes, waffles, onion rings, or whatever.Once it grows up and develops a nice tang, you can decrease the hydration so you have a very thick starter and keep it in the refrigerator -...
Susan's Loaf- variations on a theme I have had my best sourdough success using a recipe posted here By AnnieT. The recipe is from Susan in San Diego. You can find it here. A couple days ago, I wanted to bake sourdough and needed the loaf to be finished by 6:30. I started it in the morning and didn't have time for r...	lovely shaping Great shaping technique there! I am sure that is what really helps with oven spring. One day I will be able to do it... Lynne
ugly loaves ok, all the loaves i made out of my large amount of starter , during the second rise started breaking open, i don't mean getting a dry crust on them and cracking i mean just breaking open and they look terrible but the flavor is good, no need to score them with all that opening its like insted of stretch...	sounds like my low hydration sounds like my low hydration loaves made with 10% protein flour. Essentlially you do not have good enough gluten development. I suspect you either need to hydrate more or knead more.
rest before fold hello everyone so how long do u need to let dough rest before you fold so it will relax and did i mention that this is the best forum in the world !!!!! i love it you guys are great !!! and very helpful ,thanks again	Rest and fold Hi, warmouth. Welcome to TFL! I'm not entirely clear about what you are asking. If you are referring to resting the dough between pre-shaping and shaping the loaf, the rest can be anywhere from none to 30 minutes. 10-20 minutes would be most typical. As I understand it, the purpose is to relax the gluten...
starter on counter Hi therei would like to leave my starter on the counter so I can make bread 3x per week or so. How might I feed it as to produce the least amount of discard and to require the minimum frequency of feedings? As an aside, I’ve been staring at the proof button on my oven for a year and never clued in ...	How much levain (starter) do How much levain (starter) do you need for each bake?
Oatmeal loaf using Oatmill flour I found a new flour on the shelf the other day, so decided to try it out, as I had too much white starter built up from David Snyder's Pain de Campagne variation I have been trying. I have written it up here so leave you to read it there :) But here is a pic to tempt you :) Oatmill l...	tempting, indeed!!! Thanks! Enjoyed your blog, too, when I went to check out the recipe.
new to sourdough hey i just started my own starter and it seems to be doing what its suppose to do i've had it for 2 weeks and the first weekend i made 3 loaves and they where awesome then the middle of the 2nd week i tried to make another loaf and it didn't rise i feed it that mornning before work then 9 hours la...	I'm curious. I don't I'm curious. I don't understand what went wrong either. There are some very knowledgeable folks here, hopefully someone will post a good response for you. I agree totally about doing the yeast from scratch. I live near a lake and I was day-dreaming today about using lake water in my bread. It...
starter not bubbly and doubling I have a starter over a year old. Purchased from KAF. It never seemed to be as active as it should have been from the get go. I keep it in the fridge and feed it once a week or so. I usually pull it from the fridge let it sit overnight to warm up then feed it 1,2.2,2 (starter,flour,water...	Jimmy, try two changes... Don't let it warm up, sitting in the room overnight until you feed it. (That's like putting a hungry starter on a tread mill and demanding it run untill morning.) Take a cold tablespoonful and then feed it, the spoonful, right from the fridge. Discard the rest. Let your starter work at roo...
ciabatta I use sourdough mainly as a flavour enchancer rather than a raising agent. However this is a recipe I like making. It's 75% hydration with 30% starter.	So... ...recipe please? :D
wanting to start a starter - questions OK, I've been reading and looking and I want to make a sourdough. I was going to make what I found in the Reinhart Whole Grain baking book, but I see so many people buying starters from KAF or other places, why?And, I've reread the directions three times in the book and I'm still ...	Sourdough lessons BerryBB,Here are some links that I hope you find useful.http://www.thefreshloaf.com/lessons/myfirstsourdough http://www.thefreshloaf.com/lessons/moreaboutsourdoughhttp://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/233This last one is the method I used after two or three attempts (maybe more, I lost count) failed. I ha...
Whole Rye Berry Loaf I'm going to try and bake the Whole Rye Berry Loaf from "Local Breads". Anyone that wants to join in the fun is welcome. I'll start on Friday evening.	Finished Product Here is how the bread turned out.Whole Rye Berry LoafThe looks aren't all that great but it is 100% Rye. I toasted up a slice and put some butter and jelly on it. The taste of the bread that way is great.
Did my starter turn?? I recently purchased a starter drom KAF and things have been going well. I have gotten 2 good bakes out of it and stored it for about a week. In the last couple of days I have been getting it ready for another bake and things seem a little odd. I was kind of wondering what the smell of the star...	That can be an indication That can be an indication that the bacteria have overrun the yeast... I had this problem with my starter recently after switching to an all-white-flour feeding regimen. I got virtually no rise, only small bubbles, and the ph went way down. I switched back to my old schedule of 25% wheat, 75%...
Limpa batter bread from sourdough starter leftovers I bought a new book "Classic Sourdoughs" by Ed Wood (the baker not the old Hollywood actor!) just to read it and get a sense of sourdough history. But then, I just jumped in to try a new recipe, the 'simple' batter bread that is mixed entirely by beating, no kneading ...	Thanks for sharing, Anet This does sound interesting. Sometimes I would rather just pour a loaf and not fuss with folding or kneading. It looks easy. Mini O
My rye loaf - suggestions to improve my method? I recently posted about baking 100% rye loaves, and how my first attempt resulted in brickettes. Today I've completed my second attempt, and I'm looking for some advice about what I've produced. If I describe my method, and show you a photo (with more available if you wan...	The crumb looks good! Looks like you've got the proofing part right too. That can really be tricky as it is easy to over-proof rye. So you're on the right track! Congratulations!If you want to merge the two loaves together, by all means do! "The bigger the rye loaf, the better the bread." (Austrian Truism) If you w...
Getting the right acidity in the sourdough starter I recently bought Peter Reinhart's book Wholegrain Breads and am making his "mother starter" where he advises to test for a proper PH of 3.5 to 4.0. Litmus paper only shows if the material is acid or alkaline. Does anyone have experience in testing the adidity and if ...	Fish and gardens I have a metal pH probe that I use in my garden, but I think a better solution would be to visit an aquarium or gardening center and pick up a pH liquid test kit. They cost about six bucks and are good for around 130/150 tests.
levain not doubling and loaf spreading out before and during baking Hello, this is my first post-I have been lurking on the site for a while and enjoying everyone else's contributions! So I am having issues with my sourdough...I have a starter which is about 2 months old, a wheat starter which is 100% hydration. My rou...	I think you need to change I think you need to change your routine a little bit. You say your fridge is really cold, so I would guess the starter only gets diluted with time because of the small feeding you are giving, while the yeasts and LABs aren't growing much due to the cold. I'd say take a little of the starter, ...
Slack new starter; no rise; smells very pleasantly sour I'm starting to feel like a pest. :( My starter is now 13 days old. It smells (and tastes) wonderful. The texture seems a bit odd, and it is not growing. It feels like a very slack dough. When I stir it periodically throughout the day, it develops into a domed hea...	Well, the schedule I use to Well, the schedule I use to wake up my starter is a twice-daily feeding at a 1:2:2 ratio (1 part start to 2 parts water and 2 parts flour), with about 25-30% whole wheat or rye, and the rest unbleached white flour. Maybe try switching to that schedule in order to see if it'll wake up (it re...
Hamelman's Vermont Sourdough Group Bake Hi all,I'll be making Hamelman's Vermont Sourdough again this weekend. Is anyone interested in joining me and comparing notes? You can find the recipe here: http://ostwestwind.twoday.net/stories/3707371/I made this loaf for the first time last weekend and I finally feel like my ...	Sure. I think I'll be able Sure. I think I'll be able to. I have been in his book for a couple of weeks now. Mine will be "Corneilla Sourdough". Ha ha, since he says that he can't call it San Fran because it's in Vermont. What's yours?Jane
Got my KAF starter (very pic heavy) O.k so I posted recently before I got it asking about the KAF starter I only got a few answers and searching did not bring up much either. Since it seems most everyone has more luck or skill or paitience than I and makes their own I thought I would start a thread chronicling my impr...	So the first step was to add So the first step was to add 14c water to the little cup and shake to rehydrate the little bugger then add 1/2c water and 1 c flourdid that mixed things up and got a real gloppy starter going. I asked about this actually in another post and thanks to the responders for the help.I am sure e...
Sourdough bread having trouble rising Hi! I have a sourdough starter that is now almost a year old and have noticed that over the past few weeks my loaves don't seem to be rising very well at all. I was disappointed at how slow they have been. They only use to take a few hours to rise up nicely, but now they take cl...	Dakota....it might be time to 'supercharge' that starter. I ran into the same problems earlier this summer. Initially, I thought it was the increased temp in my kitchen, even with the A/C running it's presets, I knew something was up when the dough lacked it usual vigor. I found that by discarding almost all of it (...
Hydration I have recently purchased a KAF starter and was wondering something. I have been following the instructions to turn what looks like 2 tablespoons of snot to an active starter. The thing I was wondering is this the amout of flour and water that is called for in the instructions to maintain the starter seems ...	I don't claim a whole lot of I don't claim a whole lot of expertise, but I keep my starter (not a KAF starter) at more than 100% hydration (1 cup of flour to 1 cup of water) with fine results. 48 hours before I plan to bake, I use a cup of it to make a sponge that is a bit thicker than that (about 100% hydration), whi...
sourdough pancakes I seem to have unused starter all the time that gets trashed. A friend of mine said i should try sourdough pancakes it sounds good to me but don't know anyone that has tryed them. are they good an has any body had them ?	granniero We like granniero We like sourdough pancakes and waffles around here. I got an excellent recipe from the King Arthur web site, there it's called sourdough waffles but you can also make pancakes with it. It starts the night before and finishes in the morning. I would think some sourdough added to just ...
KAF starter OK so I finally gave in and gave up I am going to (actually I did don't tell my wife) order the KAF fresh starter. I have had so much bad luck with starters I want to just give in and try a pre-made starter. So my question is this any opinions? does anyone have it or did your current starter start with it...	KAF starter Yes -- my starter is a great-great grandchild of the King Arthur fresh starter. It's doing fine. I have had the current version going since January. Several years ago, I had maintained one from KA for several years, but then I had an accident and couldn't bake for some months, and the starter got tossed....
Not necessarily hole-y. I just brought a loaf of my buttermilk sourdough bread to a friend who has digestive problems, and he was under the impression that all sourdough bread must necessarily be full of holes, like the artisinal breads. I bake most of mine in bread pans so that they're the sandwich-type breads. Anyw...	Lucky you PaddyL I have tried and tried to conquer sourdough, but some how it just eludes me. Any other kind of bread no problem but sourdough I just don't have any luck, over the years friends have sent me starters from all over the place, Australia, USA, UK and all have been very helpful and encouraging. Some how ...
how long can i keep a whole wheat starter? hi there, i have a starter that i "started" with AP flour and worked great - i kept feeding it and it lasted for 2 months or so. then i decided to make it a whole wheat starter so i started using WW flour instead of AP for the feedings. even though i covered it while on the c...	CPR for starter? So I just came back from a week at my parents' house...my kids call it "Oma Camp", and for me it was bread baking camp! (4 different loaves out of Local Breads). Anyway, I dig around in my parents' fridge and find the liquid levain I gave them back at Easter...untouched!! Four months it had been sit...
refreshing if my start was taken out of the fridge and refreshed 3 days ago and has only doubled(not tripled) should I continue to wait or is it concidered dead?? I am so new at this and need all you experts.....	It isn't dead. You could dip out a bit and pitch it, then add a bit more flour and water, stir it up, and it should come back fighting.
Destroyed Gluten? First of all hello! I've been an avid reader of this forum for a while now but this is my first post.I've been baking all my life and I started my sourdough "journey" about three years ago. I have a go-to recipe (which i will write below) and except for a few times where I over proofed or something, i...	It's normal Hi Lucíawhat you saw was normal for any dough when kneading it mechanically. It gathers itself first and becomes tight and smooth and then 'breaks down' into a weak and shaggy, almost soupy, shapeless mass, looking like porridge, and then gathers itself together and becomes smooth and shiny again as you con...
No Rise My store was out of King Arthur so a substitute had to be made. I went with Gold Medal [ Harvest King ] The first loaf i made had vary little rise it looked so bad i had to pray for it. The second loaf i made a little adjustment with the fear that the same thing would happen. I made the the dough a little o...	I really can't imagine the I really can't imagine the flour made the difference. It's sounds like too dramatic a difference. Are you positive you made no other changes? What is your usual recipe?Sorry I'm not able to be more helpful. I'm sure someone here will have some useful ideas. Marni
Rye/Water starter - smell and taste?? I have never had good luck with sourdough starters. When I lived in "Nearly Canada, North Dakota" my starters never developed any sour taste. I think it was just too cold in our home, even when I placed on our hot water heater. Then again, I only tried them in the winter.Now I live...	Yup, perfectly normal. Yup, perfectly normal. You're smelling the lactobacillus chewing away. At that stage, my starter had a distinctly yogurt-like smell, though not in an appetizing way. :) Keep going, you're on your way! And I wouldn't taste it until it smells yeasty (trust me, you'll know when you get there)......
My first loaves (pics) Here are my first loaves from my starter... Pretty tasty! They don't have a real strong sourdough flavor. Would I let my starter sit at room temp longer after feeding before making my dough to get a more sour flavor? What factors of a recipe/preparation contribute to larger crumb in a loaf? H...	Crack Relief & Feuilletage Dough The bottom split due to too much expansion across the crack line. The stress can be relieved by providing relief slashes around the edge (vertical slashes in a radial pattern). I was thinking that Feuilletage dough (puff pastry) incorporates butter but can use a number of other substit...
Barm conversions I usually make sourdough bread with a barm made and refreshed according to Reinhart in BBA. I am happy with the results, but would like to try other sourdough recipes, for example The Vermont Sourdough recipe in Hamelman's. It calls for a liquid levain. Is there a way to convert a part of my barm i...	Starter Hydration Hi FranLiquid levain usually refers to hydration greater than 100% (125% is what Hamelman calls for, I believe) ...you can have it as high as 140% (or beyond!)Stiff starter is usually around 60% and is typical of a refrigerated storage starter.In the past I have favoured 100% hydration starter fed dai...
Help please! I forgot salt and the dough is 1/2 way through bulk fermentation. Is there anything I can do with it? I don't like bread witout salt. Ick.	Zaatar As John said, let the bread finish. Then, if you don't want garlic bread, try serving the bread with a paste of olive oil and zaatar. The zaatar is a salty-sour spice mixture from the Middle East. I served a loaf of fresh bread and some zaatar paste at a potluck. No one there had ever tasted zaatar, but the brea...
Mold?? O.k. so I recently posted about a starter recipe in a new book I ordered that started with just grapes. What I was supposed to do (and did) was to put 8 oz. of grapes in a bowl and cover it with plastic wrap. You were supposed to wait 3 days and then continue the recipe by adding flour and whatnot. Well I fol...	Try flour and water. I tried starters with dried yeast, with grapes, with orange juice, and eventually plumped for flour and water. Mix it up to a paste and let it sit, loosely covered, in a warm place for about 3 days. After that, you can feed it as some people here do, or not, depending on your preference (I didn't...
basic sourdough bread and Poilane -style miche from BBA Here are my first two attempts at sourdough bread with my new starter. The results were not as good as I had hoped, especially the shape. Maybe my basic sourdough dough was too wet. It couldn't hold the shape. (maybe the gluten was destroyed by too much acid? mayb...	Hi Wendy. Some queastions Hi Wendy.Some queastions for you, to start the trouble shooting process. :)1. How did you knead the dough? 2. How long was the bulk fermentation?3. Did you fold the dough over during bulk fermentation?4. How long was the final fermentation?5. What rack was this baked on in your oven?6. What te...
On starter abuse and traveling with a starter About a year and a half ago I created a starter, from scratch, using just (bread) flour and water. I was lucky enough not to need pineapple juice, and did not have to go through several tries before success. The starter I ended up with is a "stiff" 50% hydration starter, mi...	Travelling with a starter I recently did the same thing, except I brought it via a plane. I used to keep both a stiff and liquid starter but then realised it was much easier just to keep a rye starter as I always add some rye to my dough. Knowing it was going to be three days before the starter could be fed again (I ...
Preparing starter for use? How many times should I be feeding a starter before using it in a recipe? I have been feeding it twice. I also have been using Bill's method of 1:2:2 starter:flour:water ratio. So if I need 400 gm of starter in a recipe I would do this:First feeding 16:32:32 = 80 gmSecond feeding 80:160:160 =...	Enough to bring it "back to life" Joel,There is no set rule for how many times to feed the starter before using it. You just need to make sure it is fully refreshed and active, which is a bit subjective.I try to keep track of how long it takes for my starter to rise by double after repeated feedings with some consisten...
A whole lot of starter! Hi everyone,I am reading Nancy Silverton's Breads From The La Brea Bakery. I am very intrigued by using a natural starter as opposed to yeast, and really believe when she writes about the benefits to the flavor and texture of the bread, but I can't get past the sheer amount of material that get...	Hi David. I'm sure you'll Hi David.I'm sure you'll get lots of suggestions, but here is mine. I used SourdoLady's method to start my starter and think it worked out really well. At least so far. She recommends using orange juice or pineapple juice. However, I used bottled water instead. Here is the procedure.Day 1. Mix...

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