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Recipe for Nancy Silverton's "Country White" from La Brea Breads. Does anyone have the recipe for Nancy Silverton's "Country White" sourdough from Breads of La Brea Bakery? My copy is sitting in a storage locker, and all I have are my notes but not the recipe and timeline. Thanks for the help!	Take a look at THIS LINK. Take a look at THIS LINK.You may find some info. Wished I could help more.
Storing dough in Banneton overnight? I can't stay up late enough to bake my sourdough tonight.I was thinking of forming the loaf around 10 - 11 pm and putting it in the banneton and into the fridge overnight.Then take it out early in morning let it finish rising and bake.I am worried about the dough sticking to the Ban...	Overnight retardation Hi, Home_Mill. If you have a coiled reed or linen-lined banneton and it is well floured (I use a 50-50 mix of AP and rice flour.), you should have no problem. In fact, many recipes call for overnight cold fermentation. Just enclose your banneton with the loaf in a food grade plastic bag or cover a...
Have I ruined my starter? There I was, feeding my starter and humming the little happy loaf song, thinking about the lovely loaf of "Susan's bread" I baked this morning and planning to start another one tomorrow. THEN I realized I had used all purpose flour instead of the Stone-Buhr bread flour! I have never used ap fl...	Don't panic. I feed mine with a-p flour all the time, and it's active as can be.
Sourdough vs Whole Wheat A good friend posted this on the Robin Hood website, and I think it should be of some value on this site. Sourdough bread may enhance health more than whole wheat, says scientistThe type of toasted bread we eat for breakfast can affect how the body responds to lunch, a researcher at the Univers...	Thanks! Thanks for this thought-provoking post, PaddyL. It's making me wonder if I shouldn't reconsider my WW bread baking.Soundman (David)
A whole lot of starter! Hi everyone,I am reading Nancy Silverton's Breads From The La Brea Bakery. I am very intrigued by using a natural starter as opposed to yeast, and really believe when she writes about the benefits to the flavor and texture of the bread, but I can't get past the sheer amount of material that get...	I think it goes without I think it goes without saying that those numbers are insane. :) First off, you don't need to feed your starter three times a day. Twice is plenty. Many just feed once. And some, like myself, refrigerate, and so it's even less than that. Meanwhile, those flour numbers are way off the scale...
starter Yesterday I started the starter from Bread Baker's Apprentice. Today when I added the second helping of water and flour I noticed some bubbles in the Day 1 mixture. I mixed in the new flour and water and marked on the side of the jar at the level of the dough. In the book Reinhart says it could maybe rise 50% b...	You're probably cultured a You've probably cultured a very nice supply of bacteria. :) Just keep it up. After the next couple feedings, I bet you'll see it slow down for a little while, perhaps even come to a dead stop. Then, after a little while longer, it'll pick up again, and this time it should smell nice and ye...
Best loaf shape for sourdough? Are there any particular types of loaf shapes that work best for sourdough?I most commonly see it in a Boule and second most in a Batard.I have used both of those and I am tempted to try a loaf pan.But it does seem that a Boule gives a certain desirable crust and crumb.One problem I have ...	Sourdough loaves Hi, Home_Mill. As you say, I've mostly made sourdough into boules with an occasional batard. I've made baguettes with the same dough a couple of times. All are good. I've not made sourdough pan loaves, but see no reason not to do so. Regarding how to tell when a boule is ready to bake: There are a cou...
Are the Gods of Sourdough Aganst Me? Creating a sourdough loaf at home like the ones I enjoyed from my days in San Francisco in the late 60's has been an on-going quest for me. A couple of weeks ago, I searched the forum and found a great recipe for no-knead sourdough bread. I've tried it a couple of times with decent...	phxdog...that trick is as old as the book! Seriously, those sourdough gods have no mercy. We struggle, we plot, we scheme, we throw caution to the wind and then what?Well, we have a great success, we get a bit taller, wiser, and more sure of ourselves, er... our baking skills. It will happen EVERY time! But fret not...
bitter bread Hi,I made my first wild yeast starter using white rye flour. All went seemingly well until my wife and I tasted the bread. It was beyond sour--it was bitter. Any ideas on what went wrong?? Earle	Couple of pieces of Couple of pieces of information here are missing:First, how old is your starter?Second, what recipe did you use?Third, how did you prepare the bread?Without having that information, the best guess for me would be that your starter is probably too young, and you may not at this point actually be grow...
Sourdough and bannana ? Anyone done a sourdough and bannana bread?and any other additions of course.CheersDave W	Yes! I have tried this. I added about a cup of sourdough starter to a banana (quick) bread mix and increased the amount of sugar slightly. Also I added 1/4 tsp of baking soda to take advantage of the increased acidity for some extra lift. It went pretty well...not unlike adding buttermilk to a recipe. The bread stays...
why is this happening and what can i do to fix it? i can't seem to get my surface tension right. i have a feeling the dough is too wet, but i'm nervous about adding more flour. i'm using the recipe for san francisco style sourdough from crust & crumbi'm at the shape & final proof stage but i can't seem to get enough s...	I don't think your dough is fully developed I really don't think your dough is fully developed. In the classes I teach, I suggest there are a number of stages of dough development. First the dough is a ragged lumpy mess that barely holds together. Then it looks like those ads in the back of ladies magazines about th...
Starter Speed of Rise vs Hydration I was doing a routine refresh on my starter, which I keep at 80% hydration, and I got to wondering if a 100% hydration starter would rise at the same speed, slower or faster?So time for a little experiment. Two identical small plastic pots, both filled to the same level with freshly m...	That's pretty interesting. That's pretty interesting. Makes me want to play with starter hydration and see what happens in the dough.I have to confess, my first thought was of an announcer at a horse race. "And it's Lefty ahead in the final stretch, with Liquid Starter falling behind..." I don't even watch horse racing...
What do you store your starter in when it is in the fridge? Pics invited. In conjuction with my other topic about when/how to clean your sourdough containers, I thought I would ask what we all KEEP our starters in and how we close those containers.What type of container are you using? It seems the most popular are cann...	I use a small glass bowl with its own plastic lid I started with a small mason jar to store my starter then switched to using a wide mouthed screwtop lidded jar (originally had habanero-stuffed olives in it). Early this year, during a nightmarish freak accident with our fridge shelf, the jar was cracked. I rescued the...
Recipe suggestions for making only 1 loaf of bread? I was excited to read that post about "Susan's loaf." I think it's difficult to find sourdough recipes that only call for 3 cups (or less) of flour.Does anyone else have a recipe that makes a 1 pound or 1 1/2 pound loaf? Also, am I correct in thinking that 3 cups of f...	I just looked at my Gold I just looked at my Gold Medal AP flour ingredient list and it inidicates that there's 30 grams in 1/4 cup of flour. At that ratio, there would be 120 grams per cup providing my math is correct!
firm starter losing it's firm I have an odd problem which doesn't seem to affect bread quality, but it's something that i'm curious about.I have a mother starter from Reinhart's WGB that claims to be firm...well, it's thicker than my liquid levain from Silverton.My question is this: I remove a portion of the firm start...	Your starter. Hi, Windi. It sounds to me like your starter is behaving just like it should. The fermentation process generates water and carbon dioxide (and alcohol) from the sugars in the flour. The firm starter gets aerated and looser as it ferments. After an 8-12 hour fermentation of a firm starter at room temperatu...
How to maintain a starter that is in the refrigerator Hello all:New to sourdough so this, I'm sure, is a basic question. I have a great starter and made two, really tasty, loafs of sdb. I put the starter in the refrigerator but am unclear on how to maintain it while it's in the cooler and not being used. The next qu...	Pretty simple Take the starter out of the fridge, feed it a standard feed, give it an hour or two to wake up and start eating, then pop it back in the fridge. Some people think it needs to double then should be put back in when it is at it's peak - so several hours on the counter - others think once you've given it fre...
Susan's loaf!! Susan from San Diego- I hope you see this-Thank You!! AnnieT posted your sourdough recipe,( I can't find it here readily for reference, but I copied it to my email to use again and again) I have made it twice and it is fabulous! The loaf I made last night is gone already. My family loves it. Did you ...	Susan's Loaf Marnie -- is this the one you are referring to? http://www.thefreshloaf.com/blog/susanIf so, this is where it is on the site. And also "if so", I completely agree that it is an excellent loaf -- well worth recommending to other folks.Mary
Good Morning Mikey! The Starter Says "Hello!" Last weekend I taught a class on sourdough quickbreads, so I needed lots of starter. So, I mixed up less than half a bucket full as I went to bed. I like to be careful, so I set a half sheet pan under the bucket. Then morning came. The sourdough faeries had paid an ener...	You twinkle above us We twinkle below...
I wonder... ...if a recipe calls for a specifically hydrated starter could i simply use the starter i have on hand? don't really have the nerves to go that much into math right now and i keep a poolish-like starter as i learned from crust& crumb and bba. but i'd like to try some of the great-looking recipes here and s...	Well, IMHO, the short answer Well, IMHO, the short answer is, yes, go nuts! Long answer: you should always feel free to experiment with these things, so if you want to bake a particular recipe a slightly different way, there's no reason not to try (assuming you're willing to accept the occasional failure :). Of cours...
Sourdough boules Sourdough boules pic 1 Sourdough boules pic 2OK, I'm new to uploading images, so if I didn't do this right, somebody please let me know the right way to get one's images into a post.I had been contributing to the responses to Somegeek's 'My First Loaves (pics)' forum thread and watching Hans bake amazi...	Beautiful loaves David. I'm Beautiful loaves David. I'm surprised to see the oven spring you got from such a long proofing. If I read your post correctly they proofed for a total of 15 hours without being folded and then went directly into the oven. I'd love to hear a discussion on that and then afterwards maybe try it...
Starter lost its sour I posted here a few months ago, bemoaning my carelessness in letting my starter go weeks in the fridge without a feeding. I wasn't sure I could bring it back. Several folks encouraged me to keep feeding it and nursing it back to health. It's healthy now, but ... it's never recovered its old tangy ...	My starter has a similar My starter has a similar problem, but not from lack of feeding. A few years back, I managed to get my hands on some starter from the cheeseboard in Berkeley, CA. But after spending significant time living in Indiana, it's started to lose its tang. I still get some of that sourdough flavor --...
starter not rising noticably My 3+ month old starter doesn't seem to rise much lately. It does a little when it's left out, but it doesn't seem to at all in the fridge. My breads are rising fine and taste sour or not depending on how I treat them, but I wonder if the starter is as healthy as it should be. When it is...	Quick answer, nope Sounds like it is starving to death and waddling in its own excrements. (Yuck) Try keeping just a scant tablespoon of ripe starter, add a 1/4 cup of water and stir, stir, stir, stir, then run it through a fine sieve. Now take that water and add flour to it to your favorite consistancy. Mark and le...
Kamikaze bread anyone? In search of a recipe for a rye bread that would be full of flavor and aroma I came across the ones that, instead of a room temperature sourdough starter, start with what is known as Sauerteig Typ II in Germany or KMKZ in Russia. The idea was to get rid of or minimze the amount of acetic acid in...	??? I'm a huge fan of Rus's bread. Glad to see another baker on the forum who also enjoys his recipe.Yippee P.S. What kind of bread tin did you use to bake this loaf?
Feeding my sourdough starter little and often - any drawbacks? Hello fellow bread people!I bake a loaf about once every three days, and I'm trying to find the most effective and efficient way of keeping my starter in decent shape. I don't want to generate any discard if possible (my partner definitely wouldn't apprecia...	You can try the old dough route After the bulk ferment keep some back, stored in the fridge, and use within three days as starter for the next loaf and so on. Or keep a little bit of starter in the fridge. I'm talking about just a few grams. Feed the night before, use when ready and return the excess starter back to th...
Intermediate build versus direct (with daily starter maintenance) I'm currently keeping most of my starters on a 24 hour feed cycle. Since only a very small amount of old starter is needed to build this up over the 24 hour period, there is typically enough 'spare' starter at the end of a cycle to make bread by mixing ...	Try it out. The best way to see what would happen is to try it. I realize this is the obvious answer but many people don't have the nerve to just try it. I make the same recipe both ways and both ways are good. There is a difference in flavor but the casual recipient of your largess would not note it, if you have to g...
starter Hello. I have several questions about starters. Please bear with me being new at this. First, the starter I am using is 1 cup flour, 1 cup water, 1 tsp yeast. First question. Can I use wheat flour in my starter? Second question. I have read that after being refrigerated, it will last for two weeks. Can ...	sourdough lessons Hello,I would suggest that you take at look at this section of TFL http://www.thefreshloaf.com/lessons/sourdough where you will find a variety of links to information about using and maintaining sourdough. I'm also learning about sourdough. There are many knowledgeable bakers here who will hopefull...
A piece of old dough I have a piece of dough (about 6 oz or so?) that i kept from my previous loaf, intending to make it into something else later. Well I still have it weeks later, and its looking gray and has some brown liquid in it. I know this is very amateur but ive never done any sourdough... Can I knead this int...	Recommend against using that old dough Grey and brown are not generally colors that are associated with healthy dough (especially with liquid on top). I have kept old dough in the refrigerator for up to two weeks sitting in a bed of flour in a juice glass tightly sealed with Stretch-Tite; it turned a little bit grey b...
Starter Refreshment Discovery Over the years I have been feeding my starters using the "doubling at least" method to insure that the organisms got plenty to eat. That meant I would save say 100 grams of starter to which I would add equal parts by weight of water and flour ending with 300 grams of refreshed starter. I w...	I agree I've been using the same method, except that I actually measure out about 1/4 cup starter and add 6 grams of flour and water to it. It works great.
Do you clean your sourdough container before each feeding? I noticed some books recommend feeding a starter by removing a bit of it and placing into a new or clean container and then feeding. All of the data I have collected over the years used to state to keep your starter in the same container over time as that aged ...	Clean Container I've always used a clean container to feed my starter and another clean container to save a portion (about 60 grams) for the next use. I bake a loaf every week or so, and refrigerate my starter between baking. I use a liquid starter at 125% hydration. It's a year and a half old and is very active with...
Starter Question... how long can I use? I brought my starter out from the fridge, fed it and left it to rise at room temp for 12 hours. It rose ~250% and started to fall. I fed it and placed it in the fridge. Over the course of five days, it rose 100% in the fridge. I brought it out this morning, removed half and f...	Starter useful lifespan Hi, somegeek. I read two questions in your message: 1. For how long after the last feeding is a refrigerated starter suitable for use? The answer depends in large part on whether you have a firm or liquid starter. A liquid starter (typically 100% hydration, or more) has relatively little "food" ...
Are different starters REALLY different? Or is it a question of the way they're treated? I just wonder if the conditions are altered, don't the organisms just adapt to the new environment? If you have tried various cultures or started several, is it true they're different and stable?	Yes They Are..., Hi Kristin,Sourdough starters are still not well understood outside that they consist of a symbiotic mix of wild yeasts, lacto and aceto bacteria. Organisms which occur natrually on the wheat berries. When the grain is milled into flour these agents become a natural part of the flour unless processed...
Wild sourdough starter questions (newbie) I'm attempting to create my own wild sourdough starter. I took a look at Sourdoughlady's recipe for starter, but it was a bit intimidating, so I went for the Joy of Cooking recipe. I've been following it pretty closely, but I'm not sure when it's done.First, a couple of facts...	Welcome, I'm sure you'll find advice here I don't know much, having a starter (from Sourdolady's instructions- it's really not too hard) that's only about two weeks old, but if you could post the recipe you used and how old the starter is it might help you get some useful advice. I think all the details might help. ...
Using a small amount of starter to increase flavor? Forgive my ignorance, I'm very much still learning about sourdough and all its nuances, but as I was mixing a large quantity of starter into my dough yesterday, I was thinking about the thread here a while back about flavor and sourness in sourdough.If I understood th...	Correct I make the same recipe with two different processes depending on time and interest. In one I grow the starter to 400g, in the other I use only 100g. Both methods take two days time, both make great bread; they differ in taste slightly. There are identical amounts of everything in both. Beside the 'differ in ta...
Wet and doughy To date, I've amassed a pretty foolish looking catalog of failures - I've set the oven too low, forgot to slash, etc. etc. But one constant problem I've encountered is the interior of the loaf ends up damp and doughy, even when I get a good hollow 'thump' and the interior temperature reads 180°F+. Given ...	<Cute title goes here> Sorry... couldn't come up with a cute title this time. There are SO many possibilities here, we'll just start at the beginning (that's a very good place to start) and go from there. Your dough should be properly hydrated - dense doughs take longer to bake, properly developed - did it pass a windo...
High tech sourdough monitor SMART LID SPIES ON SOURDOUGH STARTER, SENDS DATA WIRELESSLY[Justin Lam] created a wonderfully-detailed writeup of his Smart Sourdough Lid project, which was created out of a desire to get better data on the progress and health of his sourdough starters, and to do so more efficiently. The res...	i would probably use this Thanks for sharing this. It seems the plans are open source, although it is still quite a lot of work to put one of these together.
Stiff starter or old dough? What's the difference? I have some recipes that call for so many oz. of fermented dough saved from the last batch of bread, and only a few recipes that call for a stiff starter. Could I use the latter for the former? I took some of my liquidy starter and converted it to a stiff starter an...	No, they're not the same Old dough is a yeasted technique used to add flavor to yeasted breads. A bit of dough held for a few days will ripen, it will develop deeper flavors, but it isn't sourdough. When people talk about a stiff starter, they usually mean sourdough. The big difference is the lactobacillus bacteria. ...
Is it possible that my starter won't convert from WW to AP? It's just very unhappy with its new diet. I grew and raised it from Bob's Red Mill WW but it won't take KA bread flour or any kind of AP. Should I start a new white starter? I'm going crazy for white bread!	A mixture might be the way to go. Have you tried feeding it half whole wheat and half ap? My starter has a hard time if I just feed it all ap, I generally also use a little whole wheat. Perhaps if you did half and half a couple times and then just move to mostly ap.
Will this work if my house is almost always around 60 degrees? Hello -- great forum. I have a question. I have two new starters going, don't feel like making a proofing box and have to keep turning the lights on and off to keep the oven at the right temperature. I might look into getting a lower wattage bulb or unscrew...	Why not try this Just prop the oven door open so the heat doesn't build up too much. Pop a thermometer in there that you can see easily through the window and adjust how big the gap is so the space stays about 85ºF. I had to do that with my oven since it would get to the high 90's if it stayed shut. A rolled up towel i...
I think I may have really done it this time From my new bread blog: Weeeeeellll doggone. It’s actually possible to get not too bad loaves made after all! So this time around: double (or full) recipe, still working with Susan's Norfolk Sourdough from the WildYeastBlog since we know it works and don’t want to introduce...	Looks great! I think you've done it! They look great! Slashing looks good (I'm just starting to get to grips with this myself).Congrats!
Is there such a recipe for a one-time / one loaf sourdough starter?? I may be thrown off the boards with such a question from real sourdough connoisseurs, but here goes...Would love to be able to make a 100% whole wheat sourdough bread from scratch and would like to know if there's such thing as a one-time / one loaf r...	You can buy dry starter from You can buy dry starter from King Arthur. http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/detail.jsp?id=1039http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/detail.jsp?id=1040
Oven spring: two types in one go? Here's a question I'd like to pose to all of you experts: In the attached pic, you'll see that the two loaves on the left have a - what I'd call - "tight" crust; the slashes didn't open up so much, while the two on the right have slashes that expanded considerably more, in spite of my...	let me try again... I misread the first time. Got my left and rights mixed up. It happens.... :) (If any of you read my first answer, just forget it.)The top loaves got steamed first (hot stuff that steam) and being hotter at the top were done first. (Did you turn the heat down after 20 min?) I think your upper co...
Oven w/ oven light for proofing - good stuff! My starter has been active but no leavening after seven days. Started with 1C flour and 1C water. Replacing half of the starter w/ fresh AP flour and distilled water every 12 hours or so. I get small bubbles and hooch but no big rise. I'd read a tip to use your oven as ...	I use my oven to proof also Like you I have no "good" place to proof, and the oven seems to work well. I even have set in a pot of boiling water on the bottom and left the light on in the winter for a little extra boost. The only problem I have is when it is time to preheat. I hate to bring my babies out into the cold....
Different starters Up until now I have kept one starter (white 100% hydration). It's incredibly healthy and gives me reliable results most of the time (OK well I exaggerate - it's reliable when everything else is also in place) However I realise that there are many different ways to maintain a sourdough starter - diffe...	Eek, indeed. Hi, FP. In the first place, you can easily convert any type of starter to any other type with a couple of feedings. You can convert a firm starter to a liquid starter, or vice versa, with one feeding. How you store your starter is, in my book, a matter of personal preference. A firm starter is better for...
Hoochie starter I have a starter that is about 10 weeks old and seemingly healthy and active. It grows very quickly, raises loaves well and smells great. Now, here's my concern- when I feed it and refrigerate it, it rises, falls and gets a layer of hooch within 12 to 18 hours. I'm not sure if that is normal, and if...	I've switched Marni,I have switched completely from a wet starter (a la Nancy Silverton) to a firm starter (a la Maggie Glezer) and the firm starter is working much better for me with less maintenance and waste. If you haven't already do so, you might consider taking a look at Maggie Glezer's Artisan Baking book, page...
A Taste of Sourdough Loaf I sorted of cheated with my sourdough just to see what it tastes like, and I found it interesting but sour ! ( never had a sourdough bread before as I come from a well rooted background of store bought sliced white bread,so this was a very novel experience). It was sort of tangy, but quite ni...	I forgot to say what I meant I forgot to say what I meant by "cheated" ....I have a starter that's been going for a few weeks now and looks and smells right, but doesn't double in size .....I'm still working on building up the feeds. I added what I took out from the last feed (about a half cup) to some poolish plus my ...
Messy Score Any ideas why my score appears so messy? Seems like no matter how deep my initial score is, my decorative scoring splits open.My dough is 75% hydration and it was cooked using a Dutch oven.	Underproofed.. It looks to me that your bread is bursting out at the seams - sort of. That's a sign of the bread not being proofed long enough. Try to proof it a bit longer. Maybe prep two loaves and extend them both by an hour and then 90 minutes more for the second and see how you do. If you push too far the second o...
New to Sourdough Hi I'm new to baking and new to sourdough, and perhaps overadventurous...have had a few disasters already ! I've just started a sourdough a few days ago but can't figure out if it's "right" and would really appreciate some tips/ideas so I can properly gauge whether it's all ok. I mixed either a cup (...	Re: New to Sourdough You will want to take that starter through a number of feeding cycles over a period of a week or so before you try baking with it. Most starter-starting guides call for leaving the original mix for 2 days, then refreshing once per day by removing half by weight and replacing it with the proportio...
Sifting the bran out of ww flour. I'm using a white sourdough recipe to make ww bread because my brother loved the white loaf I gave him last week and has requested the same bread but ww. I decided not to make the same mistake as I did with the stone ground stuff, and sifted the flour I added to the primary batter ton...	KAF WW goes through a KAF WW goes through a regular kitchen sieve without a problem.
First big SD bread flop. I guess it had to happen, but it's still rather surprising. It's an almost all ww bread using my very healthy and active white starter and going by a Bernard Clayton recipe which has added yeast. It took forever to rise and then not very much. The dough was heavy and not easy to work with at...	Blech, too sour. This one is for the bin. Or the raccoons, skunks, squirrels.....
Soooooo close... I can almost taste it! Finally, a (near) success!! Using a couche, or more accurately a chunk of heavy cotton cut from a painter’s dropcloth (yes, new but washed) and a very generous amount of rice flour/UAP mix (50/50) rubbed into the cloth, there was NO STICKING issue whatsoever. So the loaf had no ...	Lookin good! I don't know what formula you are using, but a suggestion for softer crumb and crust would be to use a good organic all purpose flour instead of bread flour.
Mike Avery's Cranberry Chocolate Loaf I"m wondering if Mike Avery is lurking today... I'll copy this entire post into an email to him, and then post a reply when I get one.I'M A NEWBIE at sourdough, but this question doesn't regard THAT part of the bread.Here we go:I decided to give Mike Avery's Cranberry Chocolate Lo...	Oh Rejoice!!! I am absolutely AMAZED that I can post a success!! First, I'd like to thank all those who've been helping me over at my other post. This is my first 100% sourdough only bread. No added instant yeast!!Report on bread: I let the dough rise for 2 hours the first time. I'd say it increased by maybe 75%. ...
1st Sourdough: Flatbread - most unintentional Hey there, been a bit.After trying multiple times and for long periods to get a starter started, I finally hit on a success. I used SourdoLady's Pineapple Starter recipe (except I used OJ) and, lo and behold, foaminess overflowing!! Literally. Twice, even. So after cleaning...	Help. First of all, put all your flour in the bowl, then adjust the liquid content. The amount of salt, yeast, etc in a recipe is based on the amount of flour, not water, so you can mess things up that way. Secondly, it sounds like your dough had no elasticity. Since you're just trying to get your feet wet, were I y...
Is there a chemist in the house? Question re chloramine Over the past few days I've been trying an experiment, getting a couple of starters going. One uses the bottled water I always use (the control), and the other uses water straight from the tap -- city water treated with chloramine. I turned off our water softener ...	Tap water (chloraminated) vs bottled: no difference in my bread Well, my question above may be moot from a pragmatic standpoint (although I'd still like to have the answer, if anyone knows).I made two small simple straight-dough loaves, identical except one with tap and the other with bottled water. They were indisting...
Storing Sourdough Starters What would be the ideal Temprature to store souredough starters?	Storing Starters I store my dried ones in plastic baggies on the counter. I also freeze a tablespoon or so of each of the wet ones.The ones I use every couple of days or so, I store at room temperature. The others I store in the refrigerator.Not very scientific, huh?
yeast refusing to hold on Hi everyone!!Boy am I happy that I found this site!! I am having trouble (of course) with what I thought was my first attempt at sourdough starter..I am using BBA method for Seed Culture, hoping to get to the Barm stage at some point. I have two questions. #1) I see here that many say that ...	sigh I've read his approach. It's one I get lots of questions about on my web site. To me, he's starving the starter. Also, he plays fast and loose with standard baking terms, which adds to our tower of babel. Barm is a largely British practice, in which actively fermenting beer is used as a source of yeast to rai...
Shipping Starter I recieved an Amish Friendship Bread starter from a friend of mine. I live on the East Coast of the USA and would like to send some starters to my family on the West Coast. What is the best way to ship the starter to them? I am thinking in tupperware using a 2 day method like Priority Mail. Has any...	Making it firm and feeding a Making it firm and feeding a lot whould probably make it surivive. With feeding a lot I mean something like quadroupling it or similar. Drying is easier to ship but you will have to check if the starter surivived drying before shipping.
I can’t get mechanically kneaded sourdough to turn out right. What’s going on? It’s the weirdest thing. I can do really nice sourdoughs with stretch and folds and coil folds. But whenever I try to knead it in a mixer it doesn’t get as large and just isn’t as good. They ferment for the same amount of time and everything...	More info needed, much more. More info needed, much more. Enjoy!
What to do with excess sourdough from a recipe? From my reading of people posting here, my sense is there are a lot of very experienced, intelligent, and practical people making bread. That being the case maybe someone can tell me what to do with my left over wild yeast starter from a recipe.My recipe is:Stiff Sourdou...	Leftover firm starter Hi, CountryBoy. According to Reinhart, a firm starter can be refrigerated and used without additional feeding for 3 days. So, you could make more sourdough bread during that time window. Note that the refrigerated starter will get progressively more sour over the 3 days. A firm starter will also k...
new to sourdough my starter never seems to triple in 8 hrs. Refreshing or when I first sterted it. I've still used it and seemed OK but my crumb wasn't as big and airy as it should be! I have a firm starter that is out of Artisan Baking......any words of advise	Hello shericyng, I am Hello shericyng,I am relatively new to the sourdough adventure also, but I have a ripping good starter. It triples or quadruples every time I feed it. Some questions: How did you start your starter? What flour did you use and how did you hydrate it? I used the 'pineapple juice solution', which I...
wild yeast I am just starting to experiment with making bread and made my own yeast by mixing AP flour and water together and feeding it daily (twice daily at the beginning) per the Joy of Cooking instructions. It's been 2 weeks and I have what I think is a nice looking bowl of wild yeast - it's pretty fluid (not runn...	Hang with me here.... I'm relatively new to the sourdough thing myself, but from the bit that I believe I know, I would call your item a starter, used as your sponge, and consider it a poolish. To my understanding, a biga is a firmer mass. Have I confused you? To me, a starter is the mother, the item we use to build...
Contamination I am in the proccess of starting 2 dried starters. In the first 12 hours I got a lot of activity. liquid on the bottom. I think they may be contaminated. I have followed the instructions from sourdough international. Has anyone had this problem? Am I doing somthing wrong? Can the starter be rehabilitated?	Contamination? - Nah... Keep feeding as your instructions say to do. I think it's likely pretty active, going hoochy fast and you'll be just fine.I do not know what SI recommends, but my own start or maintenance refreshment technique entails tossing all but the scrapings from the container, and adding in 2 tbsps of flo...
No-Knead Sourdough Recipe? I am not giving up on this...I have a lot of luck making loaves using the No-Knead method and a clouche (from Bitman's NY Times article/blog). I also seem to have a little luck making a starter. My problem is I cannot make a good loaf of sourdough with my starter, it always turns our "flat" w...	No knead sourdough recipe If you do a search under no knead sourdough, you'll get a whole string of hits.Brwaith did an excellent job of converting the recipe here:http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/4420/nyt-no-knead-sourdough-conversionIt's yummy.edh
Something clicked: big holes, beautiful grigne I made Floyd's Pain sur Poolish with all-white Harvest King bread flour, because that's all I had (I'm broke). I added a tablespoon or so of my rescued sourdough starter to the poolish (flour, water, regular yeast) when I made it. It was bubbly in the morning. Then mixed i...	I'm glad to hear it turned I'm glad to hear it turned out well for you!
Enriched Sourdough Breads I'm curious since I've not seen a whole lot of sourdough recipes that use ingredients such as milk, eggs, butter etc. Having recently experimented with these ingredients in sourdough I've had results which are less than satisfactory flavour-wise - the sour flavour always seems to dominate eve...	Re: Enriched Sourdough Breads Let me first say that I seem to have a well mannered and fairly mild levain culture going - I never really aspire to, nor do I ever get a very sour bread.I have made Pain de Mie - enriched sandwich bread made with butter (my home churned - which is cultured with a mesophillic culture) and...
sourdough croissants Anyone made 'em? I was going to make the ones from Dan Leader's book, but the 1 tablespoon of commercial yeast raised an eyebrow... Does anyone have a recipe they're satisfied with? How were they? I'm hoping it will be worth the effort! Any comments or advice appreciated!	It's on my list Hi! It's definitely on my list of things to do and when I do make them, I'll definitely make them WITH yeast because I don't want the tangy taste to develop and I don't want to wait a total of ten hours to rise. The yeast with give a lighter texture as well. A lot of sourdough lovers are anti mixing yea...
Whole Wheat Sourdough For several months now, I have been baking whole wheat breads based on recipes in Peter Reinhart's latest book. For the most part, I have met with success. I am now attempting to modify these recipes to accomplish two goals: to eliminate commercial yeast from my breads, and to simplify the baking ...	I think you are a clever genius! and I appreciate, not only the tricks of the trade, but the very fact that you felt confident enough to venture beyond Peter's words. That is the most wonderful thing about being involved in the bread journey when learning from a true master, the confidence. I'll always say that it wa...
I did it! I made baguettes using a non-commercial yeast starter, just flour and water and those lovely wild yeasties. Gorgeous crust, lovely soft insides, softer than I thought they'd be actually, but crusty baguettes nonetheless. My first real sourdough bread. Feels great! Oh, and they're whole wheat.	Congratulations!! Isn't it cool when you have that sourdough success for the first time? Can you post a pic ?
Loaf cracking outside of the score Hi! I'm fairly new to sourdough and just bought an oval banneton. I've baked great loaves but it seems that most time they crack a bit outside of the score which I feel Ike is preventing a greater rise. Here's a picture of my last 50-50 while wheat sourdough following the perfect loaf...	Loaf cracking outside of the score Hi bijection05!This is due to one and only thing - the recipe is not that perfect. Or at least it is not perfect for your kind of flour. Well, the physics of the process is that the surface will break or split where it is the weakest and the pressure from the inside is the greatest. W...
I may have saved my starter from impending death! I've been busy the last couple of weeks and forgetting my weekly sourdough feeding. Pouring off the hooch, yes, feeding it, no. Yesterday I resolved to feed the poor little starter. When I pulled it out of the refrigerator, opened the jar, and smelled ... uh-oh. Didn't...	Success, sorta kinda. The Success, sorta kinda. The bread is done. It's delightfully sour, but a bit heavy. But, I seem to have saved my starter! Huzzah!
Thank you Mike Avery and bwraith I wanted to thank you both and if you don't mind, ask another couple questions.First, I followed your advice on storing my starters for about ten days and they are just fine. The white one looked brownish, but had almost no hooch and rose within four hours when I fed it. The rye looks...	The team doctor..... When an athlete is hurt, the team doctor isn't looking at the broken leg and saying, "You can play in 4 weeks, because broken legs take 4 weeks to heal." The team doctor looks at the athlete, looks at the leg, and considers how the athlete is performing. Can the athlete run, evade chasers, chase ...
"old dough" rye starter I am looking for info on an unusual rye "old dough" starter...my 75 yo dad (born in Hungary/Slovenia) recalls his mom starting her rye breads with a hunk of old dough that was permitted to dry out. A day or two before she was ready to bake, she would crumble this dried dough into water and once...	old rye hi Paula,as long as the yeasts were still alive in the original starter, there's no reason why they couldn't survive for a while -- probably a long while -- in a dry state, like today's dry powdered yeasts. Back in the day, before the advent of commercial yeast, it was not uncommon, so I'm told, for brewers to ...
Converting Yeast Measurements to Sourdough Are there any standards to follow for using sourdough starter to replace instant yeast? Like maybe 3 tablespoons of sourdough for 1 pkt of yeast?The following RL Beranbaum recipe for white bread has been expanded by me for 3-4 loaves but I want to use my own sourdough that I ...	There is nothing special going on in the above recipe. By the time all the changes have been made in flour, water and fermenting times to figure a sd starter, writing everything down, it might just be easier to go with a sd recipe. Mini O
Older bread more sour? Hey folks,I have only around a month or so of experience with sourdough baking, so forgive me if this is a foolish question, but I couldn't find it elsewhere on the boards. I have noticed that my sourdough loaves seem to get more sour as they age. If I eat some the day of baking or the day afte...	You may or may not be crazy, but ... This is a very common perception. I have seen a claim that the bacteria that produce lactic acid survive baking temperatures. I do not know the data (if any) to back up this explanation. In any case, many sourdough breads - rye and wheat - do seem to increase in sourness over time...
Want to start a very very sour sourdough starter, what are your recs for one that will make the most sourdough flavor in a bread Want to start a very very sour sourdough starter, what are your recs for one that will make the most sourdough flavor in a breadIm also starting some rye starters. But I'd like to add two mor...	Sour flavor There are a lot of opinions on this, so I'll just give you mine. If you're looking for sour flavor, the following will help:Extend fermentation through multiple degassings: In other words, don't just let it rise once before shaping, let it rise twice. You won't get the wide open crumb that many people prefe...
Sour sourdough - A French perspective With all the recent discussions about how to get your sourdough to be sourer, I thought a French perspective might be of interest. Janedo is an American who has lived in France for 15 years. She has a wonderful blog devoted to bread and pastry baking. She just wrote about her atte...	My high school French does My high school French does not serve me well after 40 years, so I will be unable to truly appreciate Janedo's writing about French bread.I do hope she credits Steven L. Kaplan, an American professor from Cornell University, for his help and expertise with revitalizing the French bread industr...
Sourdough Batard Questions Tomorrow I am planning on baking a WW sourdough batard and have some questions.I have never made a batard before but want to try it, my baking stone is 13 inches diameter. Is this big enough for a 1000gm batard?Tonight I fed my starter and started a soaker with buttermilk, flour, salt.It seem...	Sourdough Batard: Some Answers I make a hearth loaf for weekly sandwiches; usually 30% rye and of late almost always sourdough. So I will try to provide some answers. But the best thing to do is just try it a few times!=== I have never made a batard before but want to try it, my baking stone is 13 inches diameter. I...
Adapting sponge recipes to sourdough starter Would it be possible to use a starter in recipes that call for a sponge? If so, how would one proceed with the measuring out of ingredients, that is, using a fairly liquid starter?	here's what I do Oh, yeah you can do that. I do it sometimes. What I'll usually do is figure out what hydration the sponge is and then make my final starter build that same hydration, and build it up to the same weight as the sponge. Or just follow the sponge recipe, but omit any yeast, salt and any enrichments, then...
2nd Attempt at Basic Sourdough Bread, 2 questions... Hi everyone!I'm making my second attempt in a couple days at basic sourdough and have 2 specific questions:1) WETTER DOUGH: I have seen many references to "wetter dough" making larger holes (I know there is a better term for this). By "wetter" are we talking about...	1) I have no idea here... 1) I have no idea here... whenever I make a wet dough my hands and counter get covered in sticky bread dough that I scrape off and put back into the bread. Eventually as the dough comes together it gets better. Maybe someone else has a secret method? 2) Kosher salt, at least the Diamond bra...
Yeast Nutrient When brewing alcohol often one adds yeast nutrient (i've been reading up on it). Basically it does what it says on the tin. Food for the yeast, rich in nutrients and helps them on their way. This can be bought from brewing stores and is added to the must or wort. What is also interesting is boiled yeast ...	Yeast food for bread baking Yeast food for bread baking does exist, Abe. Here is a spec sheet for an example made by Lesaffre.As you say, in the normal run of things, it's not necessary, but might be useful for revitalising a sluggish starter. Probably some of the stuff sold my homebrew shops would be the best thing as...
Rye sourdough starter from "Local Breads" by Daniel Leader Has anyone used this starter recipe for a German Rye starter? It just seems so thick, I'm worried about it.Calls for 1/4 cup (2 oz) water and 1/2 cup (2.5 oz) rye flour for the first 3 days. Leader says the consistency should be like oatmeal. thanks	Rye Starter I've had great success with Leader's German rye starter. Of course, I'm a beginner, so my idea of success may be different from yours. It fermented really fast and raises bread very nicely. I believe he uses the word "porridge-like" to describe the consistency (basically oatmeal). Mine definitely fits t...
rye sourdough - your opinions sought I've stopped keeping a rye sourdough due to the fact that I don't bake often enough with it. So if I want a rye sourdough, I just seed one from my white starter and feed it with rye. I would love your opinions as to feeding schedule, and what you think is appropriate and enough to ...	I do the same, when I need I do the same, when I need rye starter I refresh white with 1:4:4, 12 h at 70 C, 3-5 times.
Keeping a stiff starter on the counter I'm a telecommuter who works from home, and I bake bread for my family two to three times a week. Occasionally, I'll make a loaf with commercial yeast, but typically, I make sourdoughs. Also, on the weekend, I like to make sourdough English muffins and sourdough waffles. Keeping m...	Carls' 1847... I was wondering why you only take it out when you want to bake special breads? Is it that different from your regular starter?
WW sourdough starter I've had two sourdough starters growing on top of the fridge for over a week now, one grew from the other, original, white starter and is now whole wheat. This latter one is ready to make bread, but as we've got 3 loaves in the freezer, and another one rising as I write this, can I just cover the ...	WW starter Feed it up real good, then refrigerate it, without delay. Don't send it to bed hungry!I learned this just about 10 days ago. Mary
No yeast added bread. I just made two round loaves of bread with my buttermilk starter, but with no yeast added, sort of following directions from a Martha Rose Shulman book, but really only for salt measurements and oven temp. Used water instead of milk for the dough, no sugar or honey just a tsp. of malt extract, an...	Don't be afraid to experiment by adding a little flour if it was too wet. Just a little flour can make loaves hold shape better without sacrificing flavour.Congrats on your success. You're right, when you get there it's all worthwhile.Lee
Dingy crumb I have been frustrated with the color of my sourdough loaves' crumb. My ideal crumb would be creamy white and opaque, like so many beautiful loaves I've seen here. Mine always turns out dingy, kinda translucent - see here. The pic actually makes the crumb look lighter in color, its actually much duller. I d...	Amalgamation of flours? If the flours you are almagamating include whole wheat or rye flours, that will darken the creamy color of the crumb you are looking for. I'll quietly suggest you try using straight bread flour with no amalgamation, or even blending, of flours and see what happens. Mike
Please help trouble shoot my whole wheat sourdough sandwich loaf. Why is my sandwich loaf splitting?: I followed the one stage sourdough recipe I found on this site. I used freshly ground whole wheat only. I also followed JMonkey's shaping video. Well I probably made some errors since I don't know yet why and how t...	splitting How long did you proof it for? A longer proofing time or deeper slashing can do good for splitting like that.How long did you wait? Sandwich bread can be enormously fragile if cut to soon. You've just got to wait it out...it's a bummer I know.
Kind of strange? After developing a really great starter the last 4-5 months, something sort of odd (I think) has been happening as of late.Normally, when I want to make a loaf or two of bread, I take out my mother starter, let it come to room temp, remove one cup (I keep two cups of the mother total), split that one c...	possible explanation... Just guessing, but maybe the starter is underfed and possibly not being allowed to reach full strength before being stored in the refrigerator each time. That could explain why it would become much stronger if fed and left to rest at room temperature for a longer time.I'll stick my neck out and ...
oven temps? Hi again, I posted a couple days ago when I was having trouble getting my 1st seed culture to come together.. Well, I finally got it to hold its rise and made the barm (starter- I'm using BBA). Today I took it out of the fridge and made a loaf.. It turned out very, very dense and never did get to 205 degre...	My default bread recipe has My default bread recipe has me bake at 400 degrees for 40 minutes for a loaf using 1 lb of flour (a little over 1.5 lbs after adding liquids etc), and they turn out perfect. I bake for 20 minutes at the same temp when doing dinner rolls. From what I read when the bread is around 200 degre...
Newbie question about OR Trail Starter Hi, everyone. Long-time lurker, first-time poster here. I just received some dried Oregon Trail starter from Carl's Friends yesterday, and I plan to start rejuvenating it tonight. The instructions on the website just use white flour and water, but some of the other sourdough start...	I can't answer your question I can't answer your question about wheat flour for the starter, but for what it's worth I've had a Carl's Oregon Trail starter going for close to 10 years. I got it going with white flour and water as instructed and these days replenish it with a cup of white flour, shy cup of water, and a...
Sour Dough Starter using Almond Flour I am trying to eliminate as much Wheat as I can from my diet.Before I joined this group I had ordered San Francisco Sour Dough Starter Culture.Can I use it to make a starter using almond flour?ThanksDon Parent	I won't say "No", but... A sourdough starter's organisms thrive on the starches in flours. Almond flour, compared to most grain flours, has fairly low starch content.What is your objective? If to have gluten-free starter, then other flours/starches that are gluten-free will serve better. Think oat, sorghum, amaranth...
Yeast in sourdough breads Linda Collister, in her book, "bread, from sourdough to rye", speaks glowingly about "never having to buy yeast again" but the recipes she then gives for sourdough bread have commercial yeast in them, albeit very small portion, but commercial nonetheless. I've looked up other recipes for sour...	Yes, it is. I don't use yeast in any of my sourdough. Most of the recipes I use are from this web site, or Hamelman's book.Colin
making use of bmuir1616's "guide to refreshing a sourdough starter" I caught onto refreshing sourdough starter in bmuir's guide as one of the easier ways to understand my starter -- TFL node 6742. Now that the weather is warming up I find my starter is developing better though this guide really helped me with the numbe...	Thanks for your posting Hellaf,Really appreciate you posting your sourdough information. I have been trying to revive my starter and get it back into shape for baking and am having some problems. I am into day 2 of Mike Avery's steps, the ones he recently posted for Lisa and it seems to be working. I still have a da...
Oh please, Grow for me! The saga of Audrey 2, the little starter that wouldn't Well, I'm on attempt #3 and into month three of trying to start a starter. Almost 8 kilos of flour into it and still nothing to show for it. Ignoring the two previous attempts here's what I've been doing:Day 1: Start with organic, stone grou...	Odd Odd. It should work. Whose organic rye are you using? Whose bottled water? I'd try using tap water rather than bottled. If it isn't working in a week, you should start over. Also, don't wash the container. There's nothing pathenogeic in the container and you may be killing the critters you want to save. If tha...
to Desem or not to Desem... So I've been baking sourdough bread for quite some time. I keep two starters only, one captured from wild grape and one from unsprayed apples. I used to keep a rye starter but gave it up. After reading about how wonderful Desem bread is, I'm thinking I'd like to try it... however... per t...	Desem or nor? I made a desem starter a while back. You can make it with about 1/2 the flour she calls for. And it isn't that wasteful, at the end of the process you can still use most of the flour for other things. Most of the flour is used to cover the starter, for reasons unknown. But, oddly enough, I never got ar...
Do I need heat to grow a yeastless sourdough? I'm thinking of trying another starter, yeastless this time, though I do love my buttermilk starter. I've found a good-sounding one in Martha Rose Shulman's bread book, one where I wouldn't have to pitch out most of the starter every time I feed it. My problem is finding ...	Well, you do want warmth. Even if the temp drops to the 60's your starter will still go, it'll just slow down a bit. You should walk around the house and see where you can park your little tub o' love. Top of refrigerator is usually toasty warm from the coils in the back. Above the TV if there's room and it's one of t...
Sourdough Flavor Are there any veterans out there who have tried dill pickle juice in their bread recipe? Or the King Arther Instant Sourdough Flavor, which is on page 9 of its catalog and guaranteed to "create an instant sourdough" treat. Thank you.....	Yes I make sourdough and have learned everything I know from this website. However I do think it is a fair question to ask since KA in their catalog are selling it and someone with many years experience in bread suggested dill pickle juice to me. CountryBoy
One stage sourdough bread made the best whole wheat sourdough bread !! But how can I make it a little less sour? I found this recipe here on the boards. It was called Sourdough Guy's one stage sourdough bread. I used the exact quantities given with whole wheat. It requires so little labour and it actually allows yo...	more questions on this Can it be raised a little faster with a little more yeast to become less sour? I am not sure how this works, but I found it more sour than the bread I used to make with 1 cup of starter per loaf over almost 10 hours. How do these things work exactly?
Yeast in a starter Does the yeast in a starter die off once the starter is established?	Am guessing the yeast just Am guessing the yeast just joins its fellow yeasts, which develop through the flour and water. The first starter I ever made was Alton Brown's Proto-Dough. It includes yeast and in retrospect, quite a bit of flour. I foolishly mixed it in a quart jar and several hours later, was horrifie...
Skim milk powder in my sourdough. This is something I've never done before; I've just reconstituted some skim milk powder and added it to my sourdough. And I've used corn oil instead of butter, and half the honey that's called for in the recipe. I never thought I'd be so used to making sourdough that I'd actually mak...	PaddyL, I'm glad you're PaddyL, I'm glad you're finding success with your sourdough. I still haven't found a recipe I'm satisfied with, but I tried one yesterday that might be workable over time. I wanted to let you know that I tried the sourdough cookie recipe you posted a little while back and they were terrific! ...
The proper use of starter from frig to oven Hi. I am new to the site and love what I see so far. I have a sourdough starter going and it is in the frig. I am confused on how to treat it in order to make sourdough bread on a Saturday. Here is what the current plan is gleaned from reviwing past posts (comments welco...	yahbut.... First a quick comment. In many circles "frig" is a euphamism for another four letter word that also starts with "F". and which is one of George Carlins 7 words that can not be spoken on TV. The cooler is usually called a "fridge" which is short for a brand name. Back to sourdough. It'll work, but it'll wa...

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