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There's like this weird balancing act that has to go on.
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And it's kind of akin to the whole content moderation question that...
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social media companies deal with in terms of how do you deal with
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who is a bad actor and who is actually acting legitimate.
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and yet there's really no way to know right now.
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but it would be interesting if under Cal...
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California's law, which I mean, I think there are lots of problems with the law and I've talked about that in the past. But it
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It sounds like it certainly could be a potentially useful thing if they had to at least reveal who they're sharing the data with and which data that is.
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to be able to figure out just, you know, all the
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companies that you interact with.
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along if you could kind of map it out and see.
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Wow, there's a company like this.
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I know that's kind of what CCPA is trying to do or was originally, you know, when it was
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don't companies don't have to tell you exactly who they pass your data along to they have to give you categories of companies right that they've passed it to
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Yeah, I mean, it does raise other issues, right? I mean,
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And this has been the concern with data brokers in the past and like credit scoring companies too which are a related class.
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of companies in that they have a lot of information on you that they may not reveal and they're scoring it in some way or another.
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I mean, I think most people certainly understand credit scoring.
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But there are also all of these different stories of how those companies
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that all these companies that were saying like you were one of the first or you know single digit number
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where people had requested their data, I assume that many of them may have seen.
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Yeah, I'm working on a follow-up piece about that as sift told me
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on that first day after the article was published by lunchtime.
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they already had over 8000.
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for data and I know they've had to hire a third party now to help them process the data.
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a request. I think a lot of the companies were kind of...
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You know dozens if not hundreds of more companies and they're kind of
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in this industry and we just, we don't know who they are.
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I think that might be part of California's privacy law, that data brokers need to be part of a directory.
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But yeah, I do know these companies were very overwhelmed.
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I mean, I kind of feel like, you know...
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You know on the on the side of the consumer-facing companies, you know I would like to know who it is that Airbnb is sharing data with and even if
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I think like it sounds like.
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But the fact that you don't know which data it is and who it is that they're sharing with, that seems like the thing that...
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was most eye-opening to me and the thing that made me most interested in how these things were.
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deal and that there's a lot of finger pointing that goes on where companies that you think probably really should be classified as data.
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And I think that's a way that a lot of companies are trying to effectively pass the buck when they receive these kinds of...
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to data processor, we're not a data controller.
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parties to assess risk and fraud and what that really means is there's this third party company you've never heard of that have all
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the messages that you've sent on Airbnb. I mean, that is...
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broadens the attack surface in terms of how your data could be compromised.
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and phone number or you know things like that.
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not like the contents of my private...
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messages or whatever. And so that part I definitely.
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It's like, okay, you know, even if I believe like it, not that I'm posting that much sensitive stuff to airbeam
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I mean, there are certainly cases where that would be, where you might.
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And you can think that maybe Airbnb can protect this.
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data, but how well will some third party company that you don't even know has access to the data? How will they protect it? And I think... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
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That's definitely a concern that's raised by the article.
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you know, if you want to talk about privacy.
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New York Times and he said you know their people had you know looked
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good at their jobs in terms of doing background checks on people.
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But yeah, they were very transparent all along the way. And the-
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rather to the companies that they are...
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companies are storing with us. You should be going to those companies.
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companies directly. Right. But how are you even supposed to...
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to know. They're not giving me a list of the companies whose data about me.
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they hold. So it was just a kind of like more frustrating process with other companies.
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Yeah, and this goes beyond just this.
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I mean, you know, like the GDPR in particular, right, they define.
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different classes of companies and there's like data processors and data control.
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on you, not the data processors, but nobody's entirely clear over who's
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actually who and there's actually this is a big
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These companies would have to reveal at least something about the scoring process.
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which would be interesting as well.
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It's one of the things that struck me is interesting about the article. I mean, I'll.
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information back. And I guess I'm not surprised that that company is in for as
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in for criticism because of it but but you know it did strike me in reading that
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articles that like the company was very straightforward with you that they did give you all this
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information. They explained pretty much everything about why they had it and how they're using it.
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in the article. I think, like, I went through this, you know, semi roller coaster ride.
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messaging with this other company.
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Then sort of appreciated the way, you know, SIF was very open with you in talking to you and explaining how this was used.
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used and they didn't seem defensive at all. I don't know if...
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Maybe that's just my read on the article. I don't know if you felt that they were more defensive.
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a lot more defensive, at least that was the impression I got from the article. Was that your experience as well?
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with SIFT was, so I made these data requests and basically all the companies told me, you know, we basically...
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was like, hey, and I'd done this with my personal email address, not with my New York.
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Just wanted to see if you had any questions about your recorder.
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It's the fact that your experience is in one place. Say,
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used a stolen credit card on Yelp when you tried to book an Airbnb you might.
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And that scenario feels a lot more legitimate, right? I mean...
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And you actually see the potential benefits of this kind of setup where, you know, the idea that
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really the closest I came to that was seeing SIF scores. They don't, I think.
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is that most of the time they're just gonna kind of spit data back to you and they don't necessarily tell you, you know, what decisions they made based on.
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For example, if you go to a Best Buy and you're trying to return this, like, I don't know.
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I'll give you like a little receipt with retail equations.
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line in the transaction number, and you call retail equation and say, hey, why wasn't I able to return this to Best Buy?
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by. So that part of it is, I think.
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there's transparency. It's not a true transparency where they're explaining how they reached a decision about you.
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reveal that there's this other company that's making that judgment.
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kind of in my head assumed that they just didn't even tell you that you didn't even know that it was some other company that there was that there or even
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that there was a reason why you couldn't return something, but that's interesting that they revealed.
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they still don't explain actually how they came to that conclusion.
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but for like more algorithmic transparency too, and I could see if any of those became law that then
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devoted to gratitude, but even that.
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Even that was scored as high and that sifted determined it was basically really...
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me sending these messages.
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Interesting to me, I mean, and you mentioned that you didn't have any idea that anyone else would see these messages and I-
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you know, when you sign up for one of these services, you know,