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having a broad policy doesn't work, it just-
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is asking them to do. i think one of the flip sides we might see from this-
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one way to demonstrate you're not selectively enforcing your policy is to have very broad bans against material-
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or maybe something like no hate speech and just try to be as blanket as possible and have that incentive to air on the side of taking material-
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down that might arguably fit in your policy, just so that you can demonstrate-
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look we're not playing favorites if anybody-
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first words at all, we take down their post because that's our policy and that's the only way, only doing something very ham handed-
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as a way to try to say we are not being selective in how we enforce-
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he's also got a couple of other potentially constitutional infirmities going-
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images. we obviously have a lot of statutory damages on the-
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it's problem, because they tend to function as sort of a punitive consequence in a way that does not have full due process protections the way a criminal proceeding would have-
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state judge or another arbitrator, who's decided this and i imagine what he's anticipating-
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is if you're going to litigate what your terms of service said-
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and since that's a contract, maybe it goes to arbitration, but now-
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we've got some article three problems about who is making these decisions in terms of what the term it serves as-
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$5,000 at minimum, it could be higher if you can somehow plead actual damages-
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so $5,000 you actually get out easy-
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oh yeah, that's interesting. and along those lines, would that-
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set up by itself, also open up the bill, should it ever get passed and signed into law to some sort of first amendment challenge?
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in general. section 230 doesn't-
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change this first amendment. it just sort of makes it that that first amendment protection can be more useful because it mitigates, it minimizes the chance of expensive-
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debilitating litigation. but this runs.
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headlong into it. the idea that a company must have an editorial policy, that it must follow perfectly-
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amend it wouldn't normally. there's no way that this can-
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actually work and a lot of the things that people are upset about with platforms-
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where they're like, well, if platforms are doing this and they're benefiting from section-
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rights. so to change that you have to get rid of the first amendment, which-
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so i think it does run headlong into, from a practical matter-
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i don't think the first amendment allows what he's trying-
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to do, but we really don't want to poke the bear to have to litigate-
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yeah.the discussion about kind of would this technically even be feasible also reminds me a lot of the original-
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communications decency act case the reno versus aclu case at the supreme court-
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in 1997, which was the first case to look at applying the first amendment to online speech and the court took very seriously in-
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by saying that platform have to enforce things-
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consistently what he's really trying to do is say-
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and i think, it was really interesting in holly's bill to see that he took on this idea of intentionally selective enforcement, both-
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kind of in general or by human moderators and by automated systems.
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it kind of leaves operators of online service is without many-
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options, right? when i first read the piece about intentional selective enforcement of terms and-
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thinking about human moderators, i got very concerned-
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really mean i want broad based filtering of all content to catch all of the hate speech or all of the incitement to terrorist activity or whatever it may be.
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so the fact that holly then kind of follows up this idea of we don't want the bias from your moderators with-
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also don't want the bias from your algorithms really-
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one of the only safe for route forward for most services would be like, okay, look, we can't take-
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very sort of vaguely proposed standard in this-
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still, and i think would be a significant-
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drilling effect on services from really doing any take down based moderation at all.
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... was being picked on-
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... can't say that for sure. but that's where it was-
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the question you asked me before i rambled. sorry, but-
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... i don't know if anything will come of it or not. it was-
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it is kind of amazing. and i think if you're in the seafood industry-
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... you'll find it even more amazing.
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yeah and let's not forget that part of the reason that maine lobster is in such a difficult position was a trade war that was ignited by china or ignited with china by trump.
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so, as you said, there's-
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... what he puts into place.
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so i think that's going to be very interesting to see how that plays out and how the industry handles that-
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if you're a business in seafood-
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... and your support for this, and there's been some mealy-mouthed kind of memes that have gone out` that have said-
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... you have to-
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... acting in their best interests and trying to deal with this-
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yeah. but you know, to me-
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maybe you don't want a platform that says they're going to be arbitrary, although in certain...
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...user bases. that's the way it works. that's the way you get the most...
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...of the beneficial promises and the best attempts at actually delivering that benefit. what hawley is doing is...
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...blowing up all that incentive to actually be constructive along those lines and making it that a platform is better off basically promising...
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...absolutely nothing and delivering even less. so...
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...to discuss a little bit of the context here, and there's the framing of the bill in terms of what hawley says...
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...it's supposed to do and what it will actually do, but there's also the sort of wider debate, which is the real reason why this...
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...bill was introduced, which is that the president, whom hawley supports, is upset that...
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...twitter fact-checked him, right? and there's this belief out there that is without much evidence that the....
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form of confirmation bias from people who don't understand how contact moderation actually works, especially at the kinds of-
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scale of the very large platforms. and they're.
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application of the rules requires a variety of different-
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facts and understanding of what's going on and also you have-
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nefarious or malicious actors who are deliberately trying to game the system in one way or another in order to try and get their content through, and also to try and-
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and so when you put all of that into as the context for-
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the holly bill, what holly is really trying to do is set up a system whereby-
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...understand why "hate speech," quote-unquote, is out there. and they're kind of like, look, these sites...
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...have terms of service. why are they not enforcing the terms of...
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...service? let's make them be required to enforce their terms of service.
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and one of the problems is that it misunderstands what the point of a terms of service is.
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...look, it really needs to also function like a marketing document because it's kind of the founding...
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so i think they should be written in an accessible way that people can understand and give them what they want.
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companies and platforms have terms of service in order to...
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...control business risk, control legal risk, and they're not going to make a terms of service that is going to create...
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...more risk for themselves. the whole point of having a terms of service is...
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so if all of a sudden now you've got hawley putting in statutory form this idea that you should have a terms of service and it's creating potential...
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...yes, we're willing to articulate absolutely everything and be held our feet to the fire to make sure we do it absolutely right.
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they're going to start writing much more vague terms of service that promise...
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...much less, because then they're not going to be obligated to deliver...
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...something that they can't possibly deliver as perfectly as everybody wishes...
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... [inaudible 00:08:28] that they will definitely, of course, perfectly adhere...
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i don't think that works well in terms of having a good relationship with your users.
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...kind of inherently going to be prone to error.
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it is going to be prone to what might appear to the outside to be selective enforcement but instead really reflects...
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...the fact that companies can not comprehensively evaluate all of the material on their services. website operators can...
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...not review the enormous amount of material that they see and carefully apply...
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...one set of rules similarly to every single post...
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...idea that any kind of...
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