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thinking about kind of how all the pieces of this bill might work together, it really...
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...promises about what kind of content moderation they might do.
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i think most of the incentives in this bill stack towards online services saying...
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...single word in those policies potentially opens you to many different lawsuits.
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right, so the fear there is that, in some sense, it also decreases the transparency of how all of these things operate because any transparency...
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...is now opening you up to liability. cathy...
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...and the downsides. so what do you see here with the hawley...
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...of service. this is an idea that's come up a lot over the years. i've heard it from...
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...groups out of europe who want more moderation, don't...
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what does it do, and what does it mean?
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yeah, it's a good question.
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this is a proposal that combines a couple of ideas that are really floating around about...
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...says, these are the 26 words that created the internet, after jeff kosseff's book title, that broadly shields intermediaries of...
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...all sorts from liability for user-generated content...
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...if that liability would treat the intermediary as a speaker or a publisher of that content. so it's a very broad liability.
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...on this particular liability shield, so it's really kind of the heart and soul...
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...contingent on intermediaries, where it introduces now the concept of edge providers...
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...doing a couple of things. one, companies would have to have a terms of service or a content policy that articulates what their content policy...
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...is. they would have to then promise to design and operate their systems, quote-unquote "in..."
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and this appears to mean in the proposal from hawley that either your kind of human moderation...
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...but also any automated systems that you have, any...
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...algorithms that you use in a content filtering system, can also not be intentional selective enforcement.
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so this would really significantly change what it meant for a service to craft a content policy and enforce it...
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border but last week we saw some level of, i guess you could call it, movement? two parts of the plans to dismantle section 230, first-
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section 230, i guess you could call it limit section 230 entitled the limiting section 230 to good samaritans-
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act, which does a bunch of very odd things, in my opinion. and most particularly would turn the-
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...decisions that they deem to be not in good faith, and...
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...yes, this is the same josh hawley who has already released other bills that would also rewrite section 230. he...
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...really seems to have a thing for disliking and dismantling section 230. later the same day that the hawley bill was introduced...
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...the justice department released its first draft of a plan to reform section 230.
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and it sort of tried to balance the two conflicting complaints...
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...about section 230, which is that one group feels that it doesn't give enough incentives to take down bad stuff...
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...and another group feels that it gives too much freedom to take down stuff they like. and the...
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doj's plan says that the law should be revised to force companies to take down more bad stuff but leave up...
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just a general description of a plan rather than anything like a reference law, but it's...
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...experts, both of whom have been on the podcast before.
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we have emma llanso from the center for democracy and technology and...
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...cathy gellis, who is an independent internet lawyer and a frequent contributor to...
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leadership organization, we, when we open up membership-
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we can have, we're looking to have anybody be able to join it. they consider themselves a trust and safety professional-
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we're starting off mostly english speaking, just because most of our initial members are-
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to limit where we are geographically on the-
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we recognize and know that there's a lot more organizations and companies that we want to work with in europe and everywhere else, so-
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you know, because it is one of the challenges that people have, is recognizing the international aspect of it.
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and how do you handle, even just the legal request, little-
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cool. well i really appreciate you guys taking the time and well for launching these org-
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really, really hard. we've had lots of discussions over the last few months as you guys have been putting this together and i'm excited to see that it's launched and i'm really excited-
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to see where both of these organizations go and what they do-
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as well, and i keep saying this because normally i say-
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we will be back next week. i think we'll be back next week? ever since pandemic times, time has changed all meaning and so we're not-
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on every week's schedule but i think we're getting close to it, so.
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we should be back soon after with another podcast but thanks everyone for listening-
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hello and welcome to the [tech dirk 00:08:57] podcast, i'm-
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podcast just about intermediary liability issues, or maybe even just about section two-
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discussing the yesterday, as we were recording this, we were discussing how we're adjusting our own comment spam filter and how that's going to work.
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and so it's the same discussion over and over again-
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similar sites and smaller companies involved, i think is-
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so for example, with [taris 00:05:09] content online, there was a file sharing site-
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and by one person, it's always the smallest platforms that get the most attacks or hits by bad actors who try to take advantage of the lack of moderation to hack-
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platform and they had no idea even where to start nor the-
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bandwidth or ability to figure out how to respond. so-
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we're really hoping that with smaller platforms and smaller companies, without the resources, we can at least help upskill people on their team.
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to be able to think about this, even if it's a part-time function or be able to refer them to third parties, if there's tools or resources that could be more immediately helpful.
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we can at least give them that first place they can go to-
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and we've mentioned sort of obliquely a few times throughout this call. the, not just having the us perspective is the organization-
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itself, mostly us-focused, or are you looking for international-
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members as well? or what's the status on that?
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out of our initial set of-
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of them are us based but in some of the large companies where we're definitely including all of their global teams as well-
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so i will flag that because we are members focused and the professionals themselves are really important to us and we want to make sure that we are serving their needs-
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we'll probably be doing a bunch of community calls just to get a sense of what the community feels we need to prioritize. so that's really important-
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of companies to bring to the organization and get their employees onboarded as members of the association.
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but what's really exciting about that is that we'll be able to onboard companies that otherwise wouldn't have had the available funding and budget to come on board, so-
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one of the goals that we have is to make the community as broad as possible, and-
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kind of asking larger companies to kind of pay it forward for the smaller companies, which-
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[borders 00:03:29] have done very, very generously but just being able to expand the concept of the understanding of the concept-
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of trust and safety is really important. so, hopefully we'll be able to bring on some smaller groups that otherwise wouldn't have-
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had the ability to participate. so inclusion's really important to us. and i know that there's a lot of buzzwords around inclusion today-
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and we want to make it possible for even smaller voices to join the-
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join the conversation. even though right now from the outside, it looks like the conversation's very much dominated by certain companies.
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or whatever and the smaller voices don't matter-
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all this and i think that's really frustrating. and obviously a lot of these questions are-
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super important. i mean, even i said, as a tiny site-
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we sort of came across and we still deal with, we are actually just-
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and so i like, i point people to listen to that all the time, but you know,
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very thoughtful about this. and it's
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just, just consideration that people put into these decisions and the assumptions-
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that people make about it's, the sort of off the cuff thing-
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and thank you for your service.
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and [inaudible 00:00:48] ahead, there's always room for new training-
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and improvement, which is where we're hoping we can really continue to build off of. making resources, training, everything much easier.
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we can both share a couple of themes that we're cooking up. one, one particular program we're developing is a trust and safety bootcamp-
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which is, just to help-
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professionals of small backgrounds. sometimes people come from different parts of a company and enter into a trust and safety role to be able to learn the basics of what-
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months and to start piloting with a couple of members to figure out what that initial bootcamp training looks like.
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any company's hiring for, you'll notice that sometimes the requirements are quite murky or-
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vague. and that comes from the recognition that it's really hard to find people and verify they know trust and safety-
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for anyone to kind get their knee deep into basic concepts.
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adelaide any other programs we can share?
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as we should be having intelligent, meaning-
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