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... do. but while doing the same with bad actors on the western right. | N | 3.4 | 2.8 | 4.8 | 149 | Female |
and often it is those that are most critical of the left doing this that are okay doing this themselves. | U | 3.6 | 2.4 | 5.2 | 149 | Female |
... exactly why distinctions and distance is becoming increasingly important. | O | 5.4 | 3.8 | 5.2 | 1615 | Male |
because more and more people ask me why or just don't get my need to call this stuff out. | N | 3 | 3.4 | 4.6 | 149 | Female |
i don't want islam critics to be laughed out of the room. | O | 3.8 | 2.2 | 5.2 | 149 | Female |
dropping acid for allah. | X | 3.4 | 2.8 | 4 | 149 | Female |
before we dive in, dear listeners, if you enjoy this show, and there are thousands of you who listen... | N | 4 | 4.8 | 4.2 | 149 | Female |
all right. but i'm glad we're making this happen today. so much to talk about. | H | 4.2 | 5.6 | 5.2 | 149 | Female |
... when this was at the beginning of the writing stages. and a lot of it kind of stemmed from that piece that we spoke about about masturbating while muslim. | N | 4.8 | 4 | 4.8 | 1584 | Male |
... little bit like working with dichotomies of good muslim, bad muslim, stuff like that. i wanted to look at what's it like being a young person- | N | 3.2 | 4.2 | 4.4 | 1584 | Male |
... trying to discover your identity and trying to reconcile various identities being given to you. so then as i was writing that book, i kind of took a similar principle | N | 4.2 | 3.6 | 5 | 1584 | Male |
... everyone that i approached, which was that i wanted to see how a prescribed religious identity kind of manifests in different ways. | X | 3.2 | 4.4 | 4.6 | 1584 | Male |
... save us to a lot of kind of muslims i speak to, which is that- | N | 3.4 | 4.4 | 4.8 | 1584 | Male |
almost everyone that i interviewed were very forefront in saying that they were muslim, their muslim identity was very strong and they wouldn't question their faith in islam and- | N | 4.4 | 3.8 | 4.8 | 1584 | Male |
... way, but the way that it manifested was really different. so the way in which they perceived and enacted their truths were very, very different to- | N | 4.6 | 4.2 | 5.2 | 1584 | Male |
... one thing. and those are obviously, i didn't write a lot about myself in that book. i write a little bit about myself at the beginning and i think at the end- | N | 4 | 4.2 | 4.8 | 1584 | Male |
... but it was also kind of this thing that i was trying to go through, which was about... i'm not... | N | 3.8 | 3 | 4.8 | 1584 | Male |
... religion is an important thing to me, it's an important kind of aspect of my identity. i still practice some religious stuff, but my reasons for practicing aren't the same. | N | 4.2 | 3.8 | 4.2 | 1584 | Male |
... as everyone else's. and i was really curious as to why i held onto certain things and didn't hold onto other things or why i felt- | N | 4.4 | 3.8 | 4.2 | 1584 | Male |
... that some aspects of practice were more important to me than others. and i wanted to speak to people whose other aspects of practice meant more to them. and i also just wanted- | N | 5.4 | 4 | 4.8 | 1584 | Male |
... to figure out what's it when you have all these different ideological and reactionary forces manifesting and how does religion fit into that? and i think that- | N | 3.2 | 4.4 | 4.6 | 1584 | Male |
it's weird. and it completely disproves this- | N | 4.4 | 2.6 | 4.6 | 149 | Female |
doesn't even begin to cover- | N | 3.6 | 3.4 | 3.8 | 149 | Female |
... i think when we spoke about it in 2017, this was, i think, at the kind of high point of the idw where they kind of perpetuated this kind of myth- | N | 4 | 3.2 | 4.8 | 1584 | Male |
... that, oh, we kind of have significant differences. some of us are religious, some of us aren't, some of us are scientists, some of us are political commentators, some of us are psychologists- | N | 3.8 | 4.6 | 4 | 1584 | Male |
... but we all kind of unite under the basis that real diversity is a diversity of ideas. and fast forward to 2020 and that- | N | 4.6 | 4.2 | 4.8 | 1584 | Male |
... idw seems to be crumbling in lots of different ways. joe rogan has sort of distanced himself from it, dave rubin has decided that he now believes in god from what- | N | 4.6 | 4.2 | 4.8 | 1584 | Male |
... to god now. and then you have the other kind of minor idw players who... and they just don't seem very cohesive, right? | N | 4.8 | 3 | 5.2 | 1584 | Male |
kind of head closer to the 2020 election, we're going to find some kind of reconciliation with that aspect. and it'll be this- | N | 4.6 | 4.2 | 5.4 | 1584 | Male |
new reconciliation where it's like they won't even call themselves an intellectual diversity. they'll kind of say, "well, we have different opinions on lots of different- | N | 4 | 3.6 | 4.6 | 1584 | Male |
in a lot of ways, these guys started out as a religion. they continue to be a type of religious group and it's been fun to see how that's- | N | 3.2 | 4.6 | 4.8 | 1584 | Male |
mirrored in different ways and how even though my book was about muslims, so much of what i wrote about was really about how internet culture forms and breaks- | N | 3.6 | 4.4 | 4.8 | 1584 | Male |
stuff, right? and i know you've spoken about it before, and we've spoken about this before, but it was kind of like, well, we can look past some of the more distasteful- | N | 3.6 | 4.2 | 5 | 1584 | Male |
elements of jordan peterson's like christianity, for example. or we can look past some of the more distasteful views about what- | N | 4.4 | 3.8 | 5 | 1584 | Male |
he perceives to be threats to western civilization, spoiler like his immigration, right? you can look past all that, if what we actually want him to- | N | 4 | 3.6 | 4.6 | 1584 | Male |
advocate on a national stage is that actually patriarchy is good. and if we want society to kind of function best, then we should have more patriarchy- | X | 4.4 | 4.6 | 5 | 1584 | Male |
and just the way, and when you see other groups who are not muslims kind of agreeing with that as well, specifically like- | N | 3.2 | 4 | 4.6 | 1584 | Male |
groups of lonely young men who you come across in gaming channels and stuff like that, that kind of view becomes reinforced. so then suddenly the islam component- | N | 3 | 4.2 | 4.6 | 1584 | Male |
becomes less important. and i think in the past kind of few years since we last spoke, i think we've seen that, even though there is definitely a- | N | 3.6 | 4.4 | 4.6 | 1584 | Male |
considerable amount of anti-muslim hatred and anti-muslim sentiment. i would say that has at least... the anti- | X | 4.6 | 3.6 | 4.4 | 1584 | Male |
that... and again, we could see this with examples of milo yiannopoulos, for example, who was able to push away- | X | 5.2 | 4.2 | 4.4 | 1584 | Male |
group, so this kind of works for me. it's like very pick and choose. and again, i think so much of my book was about people who- | N | 4 | 4 | 4.4 | 1584 | Male |
orthodoxy, but rather picking and choosing things that they really liked and kind of dismissing, or kind of disregarding things that they felt were not kind of cohesive- | X | 4.4 | 3 | 5 | 1584 | Male |
i've seen it in my own muslim community, when liberals take over and islam becomes less important, it leads to corruption. peterson can see that. he knows how to articulate it. | N | 4 | 3.2 | 4.6 | 149 | Female |
think at the same time he's just been... i guess he's, been- | N | 5 | 4 | 4.8 | 1584 | Male |
as being, i'm here to save young men and i'm here to teach young men the value of responsibility. and it doesn't matter where they come from- | O | 5 | 4.8 | 5.2 | 1584 | Male |
because my self-help advice is universal, in the same way that lots of self-help gurus are. | X | 4 | 4.4 | 4.6 | 1584 | Male |
what was lots of self-help gurus, have lots of problematic views. they have of a lot of problematic- | N | 4.2 | 3.2 | 4.4 | 1584 | Male |
towards that. so in many ways he's using a playbook that has been used by the likes of tony robbins and gary- | N | 4 | 4.2 | 4 | 1584 | Male |
someone put it to me quite succinctly. whereas, he takes this formula that works really well at a time when you have a lot of genuine economic anxiety and you have- | N | 4 | 4.2 | 4.4 | 1584 | Male |
i don't know. i mean- | N | 5.4 | 3.2 | 4.6 | 1584 | Male |
it's also a wake up call for lots of his ardent supporters, which is like, this advice can only take you so- | U | 4.4 | 3.6 | 4.8 | 1584 | Male |
far. there are still kind of- | N | 4.2 | 3 | 5 | 1584 | Male |
needs that you have in the world. you still have to rely on other people. and those people aren't always going to see eye to eye to you. | N | 3.4 | 4 | 4.2 | 1584 | Male |
and i think at the same time, there's something interesting going on in that space anyway, and i wrote about this for mel magazine a couple months ago, which was that you have ardent- | X | 4.2 | 3.4 | 5 | 1584 | Male |
jordan peterson fans who have followed his readings and his teachings and all that stuff, and- | N | 3.6 | 3.8 | 5 | 1584 | Male |
and everything, in the same way that anyone who follows- | X | 4 | 4.8 | 4.4 | 1584 | Male |
youtube life advice and stuff. one of my real guilty pleasures is i love watching kind of morning routine videos and just these kind of- | X | 5.4 | 4.6 | 5.2 | 1584 | Male |
i think... so some of these guys have actually taken that advice and they've been like, "i followed it to the t, i've done the diet, i've done the schedule, i've done all that stuff, and- | X | 5 | 4.4 | 5 | 1584 | Male |
life hasn't really changed, because my material situations haven't changed." they followed the peterson's advice of clean your- | N | 5.2 | 3.2 | 4.8 | 1584 | Male |
old real antisemitic pepe stuff. he thinks that he's much more genuine than richard spencer, for example. and he has big, supporters- | N | 4.4 | 2.8 | 4.6 | 1584 | Male |
who are very young guys, right? like gen z and everything. so the idea about like zoomers who are against jordan peterson are kind of like his demographic. | N | 3.2 | 4.2 | 4.4 | 1584 | Male |
...is, i mean it really does poke a hole in all his... oh, i've got the 12 rules for life and you know... | N | 2.4 | 4.2 | 3.2 | 149 | Female |
...take him in good faith in that respect. but i think it's more along the lines of... life is, in his own words, life is a... | N | 5.2 | 3.4 | 5 | 1584 | Male |
...complicated thing. so why the hell would these simple hacks, make it any better? and it's more the fact that he dismissed any sort of... | N | 3.6 | 3 | 4.2 | 1584 | Male |
...eat protein because they think that... so their theory, and this happens every ramadan, they kind of say that should eat a... | X | 4.8 | 3.4 | 5 | 1584 | Male |
just to round off this conversation, i'm going to continue with that quote because it was all sorts of fascinating to me. and as you were saying, it kind of mirrors... | X | 4 | 4.4 | 5.2 | 149 | Female |
okay, so here we go. there was all the islamophobia, all the anti-muslim hate on most forums i was part of, he says. on the other hand, muslim forums would be... | X | 2.4 | 3.2 | 4.4 | 149 | Female |
...for the first time ahmed came across communities that held values, which were by and large in tune with his... | N | 3.8 | 3.8 | 4.4 | 149 | Female |
but yeah, no, i think he touched on this stuff really well, which was, again, it's about selectivity. it's about what stuff you're willing to take from the most... | N | 4.8 | 4.6 | 5 | 1584 | Male |
in some ways it's almost like the purity demands that so many people on the reactionary... | X | 5.4 | 4.2 | 5 | 1584 | Male |
...right kind of business suspect the left do. it's the idea of, oh, you don't have to be, we don't even have to agree with the fundamental core of my identity... | N | 4.2 | 3.6 | 4.6 | 1584 | Male |
..for me to take value from you. as long as it kind of reinforces another... | N | 3 | 4 | 4.6 | 1584 | Male |
...kind of quite horrible character traits of particular writers or speakers because they have a lot of clout in... | N | 3.4 | 3.2 | 3.8 | 1584 | Male |
...a certain kind of community, or they are very good at advancing a particular message, even if they're like, they're kind of other positions on immigration or prisons and stuff like that. | N | 4.4 | 4.2 | 4.8 | 1584 | Male |
...known it. but it's kind of like we just constantly keep getting gaslit into thinking that you have to veer more and more towards the center, which somehow becomes the right in order to... | C | 4.6 | 2.6 | 5.4 | 1584 | Male |
...you have this resurgent nationalist right who are just getting a free person all this stuff and doing... | N | 3.6 | 3.6 | 4.2 | 1584 | Male |
...is really surprising and i'm sure it's surprising to you considering how long we've both been online. but seeing these kind of once internet culture wars and stuff that would only be... | N | 3.6 | 4 | 4.2 | 1584 | Male |
you'd only really see in comment threads all of a sudden going to be debated in the house of commons and everything. i don't see that changing anytime soon. | N | 3.4 | 3.2 | 4.4 | 1584 | Male |
...interviews for close to a month. and it was kind of wild because... | N | 4.4 | 4.2 | 4.8 | 1584 | Male |
i was speaking mostly to white journalists for kind of book festivals that were filled with white secular either christians or atheists. and... | N | 4.8 | 3.8 | 4.4 | 1584 | Male |
...in one way it was almost having to explain my own religious identity and upbringing to them. and that was kind of strange because i've always sort tried to take this... | N | 3.2 | 3.8 | 4.6 | 1584 | Male |
...a bit of a media profile and people kind of knew me as an online culture writer and stuff, i think... | N | 4.2 | 4.2 | 4.4 | 1584 | Male |
they were much more interested in me than they were necessarily in my subjects, which all the people i wrote about, which was difficult sometimes. i tried to bring it back to | X | 5.2 | 4.8 | 5.2 | 1584 | Male |
these are stories about a select, about a handful of people who i think represent | N | 3.6 | 4.8 | 4.8 | 1584 | Male |
some of the more interesting parts of faith and everything. i used it as an opportunity to talk about the medium more than anything else about how they cover religion and how | N | 4.8 | 4.4 | 4.8 | 1584 | Male |
religious, this lack of good religion reporting in the uk and i guess other parts of the world. but it | N | 3.4 | 3.2 | 4 | 1584 | Male |
in the uk, particularly in this context, meant that we ended up, whether it was policy makers or whether it was journalists or whether it was | N | 3.2 | 4.4 | 4.6 | 1584 | Male |
ngos, it was really, we always kept asking ourselves the same question, which is, what is a muslim or what do muslims believe in? and | N | 3.2 | 3.6 | 4.4 | 1584 | Male |
we were never coming up with an answer. | N | 3.8 | 3.2 | 4.8 | 1584 | Male |
a piece of advice about, and maybe we spoke about this, i wrote a piece of advice about how some of, a lot of the online atheists fucking suck because | N | 3.4 | 3.2 | 5 | 1584 | Male |
then it develops to, oh the left appeases other groups too and the left believe in identity politics and everything. it's this constant need to reaffirm and re-identify | N | 4.4 | 3.6 | 4.4 | 1584 | Male |
yeah, i can see where they come from, but at the same time it's this is a very confusing position to be in.but if you really think about it in it may | N | 5.2 | 3.8 | 5.4 | 1584 | Male |
makes sense because in order to uphold any kind of identity that you have, for the most part it has to be an opposition to something, right? or it has to be | C | 5.4 | 4.4 | 5 | 1584 | Male |
in relation to something. even when you are a muslim, you can be a very, very liberal muslim, but your identity is still in | N | 3.2 | 4.2 | 4.6 | 1584 | Male |
relation to you chose islam over other religions or no religion at all. and you chose that religion based on particular things, whether that's | N | 4.2 | 3.8 | 4.2 | 1584 | Male |
your family or whether that's the language that you speak or whether that's because you believe in certain aspects of scripture. you chose to be a shia over a sunni for a very particular reason | N | 4.8 | 4.2 | 4.2 | 1584 | Male |
complicated reasons why you stay. i think this is a lot of my story, which is that i think parts of why i can't | X | 5 | 3.6 | 5.2 | 1584 | Male |
partaking in particular rituals and partaking in particular actions and lots of my childhood memories are rooted in both. so i'll never be able to fully detach myself from that. so it's better to | N | 5 | 3.6 | 5 | 1584 | Male |
reconcile with it rather than to reject it and then constantly put myself in relation to that.i think there's a section of my book where i talk about ex-muslim | X | 5 | 4.2 | 5.6 | 1584 | Male |
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