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MSP_POD_NLP

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...south africa since very few admit to being rapists, yet millions-
N
3.8
4
4.2
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Female
...more and more instances of rape. we respond to them as individual x of brutality, as we must in order to be empathetic to the violated. but having done that-
X
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...we then stop short of reading rape as more than a moment, a singular event.
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...every time we read a rape as an isolated enigmatic event-
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4.2
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Female
...what is wrong, firstly, about the way we approach rape in south africa?
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Female
and then we call in to shows and we write into papers and we talk to our friends and we say the same things over and over again.
S
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Female
we outrage, we frightened, we are mystified,
N
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Female
but we don't think hang on. what is it that links this rape that i've just heard off, i've just gone through or just survived or seen someone not survive, to a previous rape.
D
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Female
that makes it possible for people to rape with such impunity.
A
5
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5
316
Female
democracy perspective, or pre a party to perspective. if you can imagine a party to the particular period before.
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Female
it was important, because part we keep saying, well, what part of why we can't solve it, right? in addition, in addition
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Female
to kind of individualizing it is we claim not to understand what enables it. and we know patriarchy enables it
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5.2
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and spend a lot of time thinking about patriarchy. so it isn't particularly useful
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Female
as though it's a new phenomenon.
A
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Female
i do research on slavery. and so i knew that's kind of slick.
A
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rape is very crucial to kind of making slavery and creating slave societies and rendering people as property and production and all those things.
A
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Female
constitutive of rape actually, rather than kind of addition
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Female
around raping women, there's an entitlement, where does
X
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Female
it apply? and i said, well, it's not happening post it. doesn't start post about date. then something posts
N
5
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Female
kind of conquest after colonial conquest. one of the ways in which kind of colonial colonizing
X
5.4
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Female
villages and rape native women. and then i thought
D
3.4
2.4
4.4
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Female
slave the rape of slave women, like in other kind of slave contexts.
C
4.4
2
4.8
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Female
so i saw in your book, you talking about the legal aspects and the fact that when you looked at the records, there were black men who were hanged for
C
4.8
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Female
raping women. but if case was thrown out of a woman who was raped when the legal system realized that she was.
A
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Female
slave acratics of africa, as well as slave based south africa, which is 300 years in the cape and beyond. there isn't a single conviction for the rape of
A
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the property. and yet colonial
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Female
who had this slippage then between obviously this is
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Female
kind of institutionalized rape because none of these women can consent. i mean, to be a slave nobody's consent, you can't consent to be a slave.
A
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so it's kind of forced sex and access to these women's bodies, but you have this kind of slippery neck,
A
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in terms of the language and the kind of legal definition of these people. so you, if you call it a brothel,
N
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Female
the first brothel, the kind of laws, a fair kind of approach to kind of going out and can routinely rape these slave women.
D
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Female
when the accident happened, right, a black
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Female
woman, previously enslaved woman who looked white,
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Female
i could pass for white, who was then read as white. as soon as the judge, the presiding officer realized she wasn't white.
N
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it is impossible to rape.
D
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Female
lyrical terms about it, reflecting the tenacity of the slave and all of that, and it's important not to romanticize this. and it's very interesting how the label of brothel
C
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Female
almost then gave the slave owners,
X
3
3.181818
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Female
the rapists' authority to appropriate those women's bodies, and they could hide other than that veneer of a business transaction. absolutely . when it wasn't.
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3.8
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Female
does is that it makes it okay to kill african men, enslaved men, black men, south asian men, to kill them.
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Female
promise, stop it. the twisted irony of it, i will say is that the same people.
A
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Female
it is a psychosis, but it's actually logical, right? if you are routinely raping and denying raping, like i if it's part of your logic that to own, and they patriarchal men,
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i say white patriarchal men, if your logic is that you have entitlement to all women's bodies and you are habitually raping women that you say aren't human.
A
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Female
beginning, but it was a point to start in a very helpful one at that. and we moving on to the gang rapes that we've read about recently, that jacob zuma rape trial,
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Female
what it teaches us about ourselves, mcentee being accused of rape. there are many women who just walk away after being raped.
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what does that say? and that whole concept of who is to be believed whose story is believable.
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who is rapable? and how the legal system also responds to this. lets...
N
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pumla dineo gqola's book, a south african nightmare: rape. let me take this call because it's also exploring the angle of history that we've been speaking about, eileen in midrand, good morning.
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Female
i just want to say that i studied that and i've majored in that and did roman history and greek catholic.
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Female
exactly that, the theme of power, usurp people's power, annihilate...
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5
315
Female
their identity and take ownership of their bodies. it's happened the world over...
H
5.3
4.5
4.9
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Female
it is a tool of war. do we know?absolutely.yeah. so, and thank you very much for that...
H
5.2
4.2
5
315
Female
it's very hard when one wants to make a point about these particular cases. when the man has been acquitted, and we must acknowledge it as a legal fact, but...
C
4.4
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5.2
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Female
makhaya ntini he couldn't have raped her. we're going to talk about that in just a moment.
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Female
who we regard as believable, rapable, not rapable. and where the burden to prove believability lies.
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4
2.6
4.6
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Female
the burden to prove believability always relies on the rape survivor or the person saying that...
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4.2
2.8
4
316
Female
but predominantly certain groups of women have been set up, have been defined as unrapable. so we've already talked about how slaves, enslaved women are unrapable...
C
5.8
3.4
5.8
316
Female
of ideas about how south asian women and african women had this perpetual appetite, and rape is sex, another group...
C
5
3.6
5
316
Female
marital rape, but in many, many places in the world, it is impossible for a married woman to be raped. because to say it is impossible for her to be raped, means that the law does...
D
5.8
2.6
5.8
316
Female
and so it becomes impossible for them to be believable, right? because the idea very often...
N
4.6
3.6
5
316
Female
absolutely you should be bruised and battered and bleeding...
A
5.1
2.1
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Female
so that the majority of rape cases, which are not by strangers, the majority of rape case.
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4.8
3.2
5
316
Female
she knew very well. she went, she didn't go far away. she didn't leave her neighborhood...
N
4.8
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4.4
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Female
she did all these things that we pretend protect women.
X
5.8
2.8
5.8
316
Female
she asked a man that she didn't just know, but a man who was proxy for her brother...
F
4.8
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4.8
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Female
he was her brother's classmate, someone whose name she knew, someone she knew quite well, who's family.
A
5
2.6
4.6
316
Female
she knew. and that was one of the people that raped her, and yet in much of the responses...
X
5.2
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5
316
Female
why she was out at home, why her mother let her go drinking...
A
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Female
everything, but, how do we hold rapists accountable?
A
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don't rape. because i understand the good intentions behind it, but i personally am so opposed to it for the following reasons...
C
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4.6
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Female
there should be a collective responsibility to be part of the solution, and because you're white, you're part of a privileged...
A
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to not have abused black people yourself, or called them the "k" word...
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enabled you to prosper. that's race.
N
4.545455
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Female
it's not your problem, it's those men because we real men, don't rape. i don't if that...
X
4.6
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315
Female
real men rape all the time. the people who rape are real men. they not the men who are not really considered men. right?
D
5.818182
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Female
it is manly men. it's not all men, but i mean, that's besides the point...
A
5.6
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Female
i'm with you completely. but also what puzzles me completely about kind of well-meaning men who come up with kind of then say...
U
5
3
5.4
316
Female
rape. why is the impulse to protect groups of other men rather than to hold those men who do rape responsible?
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6
3.4
5.6
316
Female
and so it seems to me in a lot of our rape talk, we are...
A
5
2.4
5.4
316
Female
we pretend we don't know who the rapists are. and it just doesn't make sense. i mean, we south africans we pretend constantly that...
A
5.8
2
5.7
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Female
the scenario i like to paint because it's so ridiculous is, it's as though there are these martians who swoop...
C
5.4
3.6
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Female
that's part of the problem. because when women say "this is my rapist"
D
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we look at the numbers. we're outraged. we talk about the numbers, we call into the radio, we write in, we call seminars...
A
6
3
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Female
we do all of this stuff. we do marches, solidarity marches, all sorts of fantastic things. but, we don't put the rapist...
A
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316
Female
and we don't hold accountable those people who badger people who come forward, women who come forward, we say break the silence...
X
5.4
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316
Female
the silence, but there is no silence anymore. the silence has been completely broken, right? but we continue to pretend that this rapist is this mystery...
D
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while the rapists are real men. and to say "not all men", perhaps what you should do if you are a man and you believe not all men or real men, well...
X
5.9
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Female
but you believe not all men, part of the work
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5.2
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Female
you should be doing is not defending the man you,
A
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imagine don't do it because you don't know, you know that you don't, if you don't,
C
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Female
right, but i mean, it means also we have this kind of paradox where,
N
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Female
if we had the kind of stats that we have, if south african women are living with the possibility of being, half of us being raped
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5.4
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Female
at least once and many people being raped more than once. then some of those people who are going on those matches are rapists
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Female
and we enable this hypocrisy because we keep focusing on the side issue and i'm sorry, but actually saying real men or saying
A
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not all men is being part of the problem. it is not part of the solution. it's actually enabling
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rape culture because it exhausts us into saying yes, yes, yes of course we think we don't know. we start now trying to make you feel better rather than-
A
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instead of holding those of us who are working against rape responsible for making you feel bad.
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Female
mary, i was raped many times by my husband. that's from anonymous an sms [crosstalk 00:01:06]
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but all armies conquerors throughout history have raped and pillaged. it's what men do. all men of all races in conqueror mood.
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5.272727
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are those segments and there are those options, but we all have to live in this country and we all have to live in this world as it is and rape is a reality and it's a reality not just here, it's a reality all over the world.
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indeed, you talk about a friend of yours who was gang raped. you
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