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Er... this fish wasn't in Finding Nemo. That fish was round and had a light on it, more like an Anglerfish.
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`opponents, for a variety of possible reasons. ...In English-speaking countries since about the 1960s, especially in`` North America, the term cult has taken on a pejorative and sometimes offensive connotation.`` etc. Second point: Citing a French reference is fine and good under most circumstances, but given all the conflicting views about the term, and the fact that this is an English encyclopedia, not a French one, and that we are discussing an international organization, not just a French one, it is not really helpful, especialy since (Third point) the use of the term is inconsistantly applied throughout Wikipedia. The French report includes several religions and organizations that are also English (American) organizations yet in the Wiki articles about them, they are not referred to as ``cults,`` nor is the French report cited in relation to them. For example, the following organizations and religions are included in the French report: Mormons, Jehovah's Witness (reference to the term in the title of a source cited here, but it is not stated in the text of the article as it has been in this one) Seventh Day Adventists (``cultic`` as defined by the author of a cited book on the subject, and it has its own specific meaning - see article on Cults), the Church of God, Transcendental Meditation, the Humanist Party movement, the Church of Christ, Scientist, Pentacostals, and Raja Yoga. If we are striving for NPOV, then the term ought to be applied equally and objectively to all entries that are also cited in this same report, OR, the report and reference outght NOT to be cited or used in this particular article, OR a different citation ought to be used in which the definition of the term is stated clearly, and/or make it clear that the French article is speaking of the SGI France specifically, (in which case, it would probably only be fair to also find similar reports about each and every SGI organization and see how each country views the organization in its country. And that would be ridiculous. Otherwise, the only remaining reason for its inclusion in this article and not in others, is because some editors hold a POV about SGI, (as noted in Wiki's article on the subject). That is not appropriate, and NPOV. - Ruby :Hi Ruby. I thought we'd lost you there! :I think the cult reference is touchy. And for the record: personally, I think it should be noted in articles on other religious groups when they have been plausibly accused of cult-like activities. Also, everyone might want to note that the French government's usage of ``cult`` is clearly and finely defined: a group has to meet certain objective criteria to be listed. :As for our article here, please remember that it is not saying that SGI is a cult, it's saying that SGI has been accused of being a cult. That the French government listed it as such is an undeniable fact, and it's something that people looking up SGI should know. I believe that the French government has rescinded this listing, which is something you might want to look into; but nonetheless, credible media in several countries and localities—in the US, particularly southern California—have also described SGI as a cult or being ``cult-like`` (e.g., Die Zeit'', one of Germany's leading newspapers). Almost every website on cults (even when it's not run by some disgruntled SGI member) also has a section on Soka Gakkai or SGI, so denying or trying to avoid mention of the cult accusations is, I would think, likely to work against SGI: it looks like cover-up, and perfectly reasonable people are likely to interpret that as evidence that the cult characterizations are accurate. :Besides, if we remove all reference to the cult accusations, Carl7 will just come back and re-insert them again! ::No way! I am still here. Just trying to reclaim my nights for sleeping!! I haven't really seen anything warranting comment, either, so, I'm pretty well rested, lately! -) ::I hear you, though, and I also tend towards using a common standard for all articles. And, I agree that it is something that will keep coming back, realistically speaking. But, I feel it is necessary to put the feet to the fire - if it is going to be stated, it shouldn't go unchallenged. And if Carl7 wants to keep putting it in there, that's fine but let him find real authoritative sources to support his claim, and cite them. We are all about sharing all views - but we can't just allow a bully to run rampant. He's got to prove his case. As do we all, no? You gave a head start - but what are these sources you mentioned? Do they pass muster? If they are ou
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* Support Google gives more results for meter than metre.
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` ==To: Jareth== Ms. Barber said: ``They are making claims about 'registering' these dogs ... yet if you actually researched their web sites, they are only using AKC dogs, and mixing them with what they claim to be Shilohs!! Why?? It's just a money game! If they can print off a paper that says the pup is a Shiloh, they get more money for that pup!`` Ms. Barber said: ``Well, to start with, there are ``recognized`` registries, like the AKC, CKC, UKC, SV, UK and various other breed club registries recognized under the FCI.`` Ms. Barber said: ``Then there are the 'self' proclaimed ``registries`` that will issue a piece of paper to anyone that sends them some cash! They are a BIG joke in the ``official`` dog world, and there is a lot of Internet verification regarding all of them!!`` Ms. Barber said: ``I am sure that the TSSR, NSBR, SSBA, etc. have convinced themselves that they *are* registries, but I can also assure you that no other legitimate organization, like the UKC .. AKC .. FCI .. etc. would agree with them!! Just because someone says something (and it's not illegal) that does not *make* it so!!`` Jareth: (see above) Ms. Barber has repeatedly and continuously made personal attacks about other registries and should be banned by you for doing so. She should be subject to the same rules/restrictions to which the other contributors to this discussion have been held. Wiki has not allowed others to address Ms. Barber's questionable registry/club/breeding practices, so why is she being allowed to continue to do so? And, despite being the ``first`` registry, what independent, unbiased documentation has the ISSR provided to show that they are any ``different`` or more ``recognized`` than any other Shiloh registry, when it comes to accreditation by any outside organization. The fact of the matter is, the ISSR is no more ``recognized`` independently than any of the other Shiloh registries currently in operation. Also, like the 'self' proclaimed registries Ms. Barber references, the ISSR also issues its own ``pieces of paper`` based on Ms. Barber's own determination and her registry charge for these ``pieces of paper``. What Ms. Barber is claiming about other registries (``Just because someone says something [and it's not illegal] that does not *make* it so!!``), is true of her own, as she has repeatedly throughout this discussion failed to provide unbiased, independent (as you stipulated as a rule for the inclusion of information or contribution) corroboration that her organization is any different. In addition, the article, as now changed again, with Ms. Barber's numerous links to her own registry's/club's website are again both self-promoting and an attempt to steer readers to her business and to hinder Wikipedia's policy of ``neutrality`` in its articles. These links are not unbiased, factual, neutral information. Readers wishing to pursue more information re: her club/registry have the link at the bottom of the article (along with the other registry/club links) they can access if they want to hear more from her. At this stage, I think it is obvious that Ms. Barber has no intention of negotiating and compromising, in good faith and mutual respect, a ``neutral``, factual, independent, unbiased article. I commend you for your patience and efforts, thank you for your assistance and recommend this process move forward to the next step of arbitration. M.Dúfy`
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should be give exclusive focus in this article, to the exclusion of other registries/clubs
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` : Thanks for contacting me! Yes, I am interested in the project and I've already signed up. In the coming days/weeks/whenever-time-permits, I will probably add content relating to Indian River County and will work on getting images of common landmarks in the area. `
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` *#There is no ``moderator`` here. *#Please familiarize yourself with Wikipedia's Neutral point of view policy. `
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` ::Calderra/gspawn. Because of your biased nature regarding Boll (you said u hate the guy), you are dragging down the quality of this Wiki article. Check out the wiki pages of other directors, all of them had commentry on their works (movies). Due to non-NPOV people like you all commentries were taken out. The only other thing readers can fall back on is solid facts like movie ratings etc. This you are also against. So may I ask: what are we ``allowed`` to post by your ``standards``? Do you mean to say that Wikipedia should NEVER contain public reactions/commentries to any movies and that you'll shortly be deleting similar posts on other directors' pages?? `
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I disagree (but not strongly). I know the author is the same person, but the works published do have a quite different character and there is milage in keeping the two types seperate and to develop the Bolitho stories and Kent line seperate from the general war stories as authored under his real name. I would not however object too much. What we could do with, rather than change to setup, is more editorial copy, i.e. more information series description, book entries etc.
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::::: I think I may revise my original assessment... Checking his userpage, GroundZero's placed an identical message on 30+ individuals talk pages. All of those specific individuals each have significant influence; sway, if you will, in Wikipedia. Given that GZ's only been contribbing for about a week, how would he know to drop messages on exactly *those* user's talk pages? (Doom127)
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:What would personally satisfy me is (ideally) a letter (or email) from someone working at admin.ch (not something merely hosted by admin.ch, but the main admin.ch people) stating whether or not the motto is specified in any federal law, or if it is just something used traditionally (and then if it's used across the entire country). You're quoting politicians now, and I don't mean to inflict doubt upon you, but the president of my country, George W. Bush (along with most other popular politicians I can think of here), say some completely false things. They are not historians and they are usually not students of national law either - they're just making speeches to try and keep people sated. I hope Switzerland's politicians aren't like the USA's, but I am constantly reminded (by politicians worldwide) of how ignorant most are. ¦
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== Reasons why Greece is acting like this == One of the main rights of humans, as well as countries is the right to freely choose its name. One of the biggest insults for me is when somebody is trying to change the name of another one. This time I will not respond to the insults posted by , and because the language they are using is unacceptable for a serious site like Wikipedia (Just to quote the last comment by This is a country which was a part of Jugoslavia,where a lot of people are Albanians,where they speak a bulgarian dialekt,and they want to have a greek name)!!!???. For me it is very difficult to understand the offensive position of Greeks trying to change the name of its neighboring country, so I will try to dig in the history and in the recent events in order to find an answer why Greece is doing this. * History: Undisputable fact is that modern Greeks have very little common with the ancient Macedonians, even with the ancient Greeks! Actually, all modern nations living in the Balkan Peninsula are modern nations created with mixing the old nations like ancient Greeks, ancient Macedonians, Ilirs etc with the modern Greeks, Slavic population etc. For example, the most dominant opinion in our country is that the modern Macedonian nation is created as mixture of ancient Macedonians and Slavic population. Probably the Modern Greek nation has origin from the ancient Greeks and ancient Macedonians, but that doesn’t give him a right to claim ownership of the name Macedonia. * Another interesting fact is that the name Macedonia was virtually forbidden for use in Greece before seventies in the last century. Actually, the northern part of Greece was called “Northern Greece”. Meantime, Greeks realized that they can benefit more if they adopt the name of Macedonia. Starting from that point, the northern part of Greece was renamed to Macedonia and many shops, airports, streets etc got the Macedonian name. So, Greece is using the name Macedonia for its northern part for 30 years, but Republic of Macedonia is using its name officially from 1945 (that is 60 years)! * One of the biggest fears of Greece is its Macedonian minority. It is known that a large population of Greece claim Macedonian ethnicity. Actually, during the Civil war in Greece from 1945-1949 a real genocide of the Macedonian population took place there. Many of the Macedonian people were tortured and expelled from their homes. Nowadays Greece doesn’t recognize the Macedonian minority and forbids the use of Macedonian language, culture, education etc. * Very interesting fact is the following: Luxembourg and Belgium are neighboring countries. Belgium has a province which is called LUXEMBOURG! So far, Belgium never disputed that. In our situation, Greece has a province called Macedonia, but aggressively disputes the right of our country to use its name. * Greece claims that Macedonia has pretensions over Greek territories. Even if that is true, Greece is several times stronger than Macedonia economically, politically, military etc, so it is really hard to believe that Macedonia can harm Greece, especially by using the name Macedonia.
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REDIRECT Talk:Nyika National Park
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== Thoughtshowering... delete? == I say we delete the thought shower segment or drastically improve it. Up until now, it didn't even mention that it was offensive BECAUSE of the epilepsy connection until the end of the segment. Fix it or get rid of it, it's nearly unreadable.
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Turned Internal Disputes section into something legitimately relevant.
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` == hey dipshit == I made a contribution - ``Wooden Ships`` - so now I can make 3 vandalizations. After that I'll make another contribution - ``cumfart`` - with a picture of you (lololol) so i can make even more vandalisiziations.`
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== LOL PENIS! == LOL! I AM TALKING TO YOU SO THIS SHIT IS NOT VANDALISING!
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Usually I’m not answering questions like this (because the answer it too obvious), but I’ll make an exception: Majority of the people in Macedonia are Macedonians, we are not speaking Bulgarian dialect, instead we are speaking Macedonian language and the Macedonia name is not a Greek property.
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` xmav A little search inside Internet found http://www.well.com/~gilesgal/Snowwords.html According to me, if you need several words to translate something a language feels like words, and these words form not a compound, then one can say that language has several ``single`` word in order to define better the same concept. A translation like ``one-year-old-snow`` for pukak (if the word is correct) does not tell us english has a new word for snow, even in the case that, say, pu = snow, kak = 1 (year)...`
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: As I said on the list, if this is how the game is played then I'm willing to play it. Fair enough. : However, it seems that you unblocked , which does not appear to have had any effect on the blocks that were placed on . That problem's still rearing its ugly head.
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== Radhanite == You are correct that I did not actually vote support. I very rarely do: I've probably only voted to support about 8 or 10 featured articles ever, and they've been ones I've really spent time researching, so I was personally confident of their accuracy and thoroughness. The fact that you left me a message doesn't change that. It doesn't seem short on supporters. However, I found the objection I remarked on to be inappropriate, and I think my comment there increases the chance that when Raul evaluates the situation he will dismiss that objection. |
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` As I'm sure many of you have surmised, there is something going on behind the scenes to which most editors of Wikipedia are not privy. My purpose here today is to expose it. In doing so, you may be tempted to minimize the problem by vilifying David Gerard or Carbonite, but their actions are only part of the surface manifestation, and penalizing them will only accentuate the dilemma. Finding fall-guys to punish will not fix the problem because the underlying problem is the system of punishment. ==Systems of punishment== On , we see Carbonite punish the administrator with a forced ``time out.`` In response, Jpgordon leaves a message on saying, ``Good call.`` Jpgordon's subservience to the system of punishment is directly evident in this example. Methods of indirectly empowering systems of punishment also exist. We can disagree with Carbonite's methods while enabling them at the same time by acknowledging Carbonite's ability to control our will. But, does Carbonite have the innate ability to control our will, or do we grant him that power? Obviously, Carbonite cannot coerce us without our agreeing to allow him that authority. Our mind is our own, and our will is based purely on the systems we acknowledge. When we buy into a system of punishment, as many of us have at Wikipedia, we are purchasing the whole package. It come complete with vandals, disrespect, flame wars, and content ultimately controlled by a very few individuals with little or no prescriptive editing experience. ===Prescription=== Language requires prescription. This is evident with a little thought-experiment involving two extremes. If you could only communicate with words that remained the same indefinitely after they are coined, communication would be entirely possible. However, in the opposite extreme, where official definitions instantly amended whatever meaning every disparate context assumed, propaganda and ``misuse`` would soon render that language ineffectual. Within the intended construct of Wikipedia, we don't have to understand how strong singular definitions empower a civilization. The Darwinism of thousands of disparate editors and competing ideas will naturally lead to a prescriptive definition. In areas of Wikipedia where we don't have top-down control of content, this is exactly what happens. Unfortunately, systems of punishment have become the rule at Wikipedia instead of the exception. Our love for this project creates expectations for its potential, but the fear of not reaching these expectations allows others to control us, closes our eyes to corruption and content control, and ultimately destroys the thing we love. More after I take a few more runs.`
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:Obviously you are totally missing the point. The purpose of my sentence was not to deliver personal insults to a person of Greek nationality, rather it was paraphrase of the sentence you are defending in order to show you how it hurts when you insult a person of another nationality. I’m going to stop wasting my time discussing with you because you are losing your temper and starting personal attacks on me (calling me Macedonian Slav that spent 1000 years under Greek occupation and still dare to say something in self-defense,especially I will not discuss your last comments). That shows the level of your culture and the ability to reasonably discuss this issue.
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**It doesn't matter at all what the content was when you violated WP:3RR. Anyone would have gotten blocked by any administrator for having made the same reverts you did.
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== Berkeley Heights Form of Government == Mike, Thanks for the update on the Berkeley Heights, New Jersey regarding the change in the form of government. As part of Wikiproject New Jersey, I have been working on updating all 566 New Jersey municipalities to provide details on local government and its structure. Given the lag time in obtaining information on tehse changes, it could have been months before the page would have been updated. I will do some cleanup and wikifying. Thanks for the update!
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` ::Yes I did notice that Mr Matthew McGhee (Duffer1), suddenly appeared on queue, it's all getting very suspicious. I can imagine them setting up sentinel duty on the main page and taking their ``We must defend Jeboba`` from some other site where they can bad mouth anyone (mainly you and I) who dares to challenge them. I notice Danny Muse has disappeared, I wonder who he is posting as now? At least we have demonstrated to all the readers how low and deceitful JWs are willing to go, even when caught by their own stupidity they deny it in public. Not a very good advertisement for their religion! I hope the public take note: ``And, really, would you want to be even associated with a religion that had not been honest with you?``—JW book Is This Life All There Is? 1974 p.46 `
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==OUTSTANDING ARTICLE== Wow!! This is a very well written article. The author/s should consider nominating this article for -featured status- because it certainly meets all the requiremnts. I'll vote for it!! Good luck!
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`|FREAK OF NURxTURE]] (TALK)`
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` : I am the one who originally added Kelley to the category. I re-added him today. Noting that he refers to Leonard Peikoff and Harry Binswanger as ``two leading Objectivists`` (which they are not, though they claim to be), it appears that he is an adherent of the dogmatic Anti-Reason Institute. : I'm not so sure that Greenspan belongs in that category, though. To be sure, he was an Objectivist during the time of the Collective, but I'm not sure he is one today (nor do I know if he still considers himself to be one). I raised this issue on Category talk:Objectivists a few days ago...is the category for people who CLAIM to be Objectivists or for those who actually ARE Objectivists? As a devoted opponent of the ARI, perhaps I'm not the best person to judge this distinction (I know of a few Objectivists who are in fact blissfully ignorant of the schism or at least think it's all bullshit), but this is something that needs to be decided. `
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== Malo! Baby! == Malo, baby, don't you know who I am?! I'm JIMBO WALES! No need to block me!
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== No block is a good block == Excuse me, please do NOT block me! I have a good reason, if you wish to know why I say this!
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` *Shrug. Here's what you inserted: Kwanzaa still reamains unknown to most Americans, most pop culture references to kwanzaa tend to either educate the audience about kwanzaa or mock its obscurity and depict it as ``inferior`` to other holidays. So. Who says Kwanzaa still remains unknown to most Americans? Provide sources for this data, please (else it is original research, whether true or not.) Who says most pop culture references educate or mock and depict it as inferior? Your own observations? Then it's also original research. It's also strongly non-neutral-point-of-view. `
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::The Wikipedia rule state that users cannot be blocked for expressing an opposing point of view and that blocking other users cannot be used as a tactic to win in a POV war.
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. Instead of using and abusing administrator privilege I suggest that arbitration be called on
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=Beckjord to DreamGuy= I want you to please cease editing the Bigfoot page. You do not seem to be up on info, have read nothing by Pyle, and are out of the loop. Please stop. becjord
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== Rex Mundi == I've created a stub on Rex Mundi at Rex Mundi High School. Only thing I know about it is that both my Aunt Donna and Bob Griese went there. Please add anything you might know about it. BTW, my dad was a Panther; I live in Princeton myself.
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` ::::``How could it not be?`` This is an opinion. Frankly, some who are disfellowshipped are relieved, and some have already been ``gone`` so long it doesn't matter what action the elders take a point I would have thought you would jump on. But then again, you are only hearing from those that do have a problem with their experiences. ::::The scholarly back-up of doctrines is a separate issue, and really has no bearing on whether Witnesses believe something or not. After all, we believe that humans were created roughly 6,000 years ago, and a good number of scientists and anthropologists would hotly debate that in a New York minute (before the transit strike). The point is, the article is to present what Witnesses as a group believe, and what criticisms exist, and the extent of this criticism. There is a threshold as to what divergence is notable and worth mentioning, and how extensive coverage of it should be, and your views simply do not represent the percentage you seem to think or hope for. ::::You said, ``Maybe you should write to them ... and see what they say.`` You are the one who seems to want/need the answer to this, so perhaps you should write to them yourself. ::::Watch Tower, 25 Columbia Heights, Brooklyn, NY 11201-2483 USA - `
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Now this section is not editable it is left with innaccuracies and intentional mis-information . The personal opinions and prejudices of one point of view should not be able to prevail . The writer of the text which is now available has also given wrong information and openly ridiculed an organisation which is doing serious and academically authentic work in anthropology. If this can happen there is something wrong with the Wikipedia system. I think the idea of a 'stable text' remaining when the is controversy is right, but to leave the vandalised text in place defeats the whole purpose. It is not a piece of writing one would wish someone to read who wanted to get a general meaning of patriarchy as an anthropological term. Paula Clare, 21 december 2005. 9.52PM
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` ==Dispute(s)== (*Note to NSBR, TSSR, SSBA, AND ISSDC contributors: Please advise if you concur or disagree with my summaries below): From everything I have read, it would appear, as evidenced throughout this talk page AND the article edit page, contributors representing the NSBR, TSSR, SSBA, and ISSDC registries/clubs, have agreed/compromised/concurred regarding the following: 1)They have agreed/compromised to the inclusion of ALL currently established registries/clubs affiliated with the Shiloh Shepherd dog, including the ISSR/SSDCA as an acknowledged Shiloh Shepherd registry/club in the article. 2)They have agreed/compromised that the article contain an acknowledgement that Ms. Barber initiated this breed and originated the standard for the breed. 3)They concur that the article content must contain ``verifiable`` documentation, not based on ``original`` research and stated only from a ``neutral point of view``, in agreement with Wikipedia's stated requirements for content criteria. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:About#Wikipedia_content_criteria) 4)They have agreed/compromised, in order to resolve this dispute and prevent potential for unverifiable, dependent, biased inclusions/comparisons/contrasts by any registry/club, including their own, to refrain from including any registry/club specific information and promotion in the article, other than to cite the existence and names of each, and to simply include ALL registry's/club's homepage website links at the bottom of the article, which will allow Wikipedia readers the opportunity to gain access, should they choose, to each of the various registries'/clubs' individual purported documentation, research, and points of view. 5)They concur that the article should NOT contain original publication of ``original thought``, ``propaganda``, ``advocacy``, ``self-promotion``, and ``advertising``, in agreement with Wikipedia's stated requirements for ``Wikipedia: What Wikipedia is Not`` (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_propaganda_machine). 6)They have agreed/compromised, in order to resolve this dispute and prevent inclusion of these disallowed contents by any registry/club, including their own, to refrain from including any registry/club specific information and promotion in the article, other than to cite the existence and names of each, and to simply include ALL registry's/club's homepage website links at the bottom of the article, which will allow Wikipedia readers the opportunity to gain access, should they choose, to each of the various registries'/clubs' individual thoughts, propaganda, advocacy, self-promotion, and advertising. 7)In order to resolve this dispute and prevent bias regarding the article's descriptive contents concerning ``Health``, they have agreed/compromised to refrain from including any statements citing, reviewing, or comparing/contrasting ISSR, NSBR, TSSR, SSBA, SSDCA, or ISSDC health practices/policies and they propose the ``Health`` section of the article contain only a statement listing those health issues acknowledged by ALL registries/clubs (gastrointestinal problems -gastric torsion/bloat, bacterial overgrowth syndrome- and skeletal or bone disorders such as hip dysplasia, panosteitis and osteochondritis), a recommendation by ALL registries/clubs that testing be conducted and a statement that ``these reports clearly show that, as giant breeds go, the Shiloh is arguably a healthy example``. 8)They have agreed/compromised that regarding ``Size``, ``Coat``, ``Color``, and ``Temperament``, there appears to be very limited dispute re: the ``standards`` contained therein and that the section should remain free of any statements citing, reviewing, promoting any individual registry/club and comparing/contrasting one registry/club with another. These compromises and requested article inclusions/exclusions meet Wikipedia's policies/procedures for content criteria, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:About#Wikipedia_content_criteria) in that they embrace the following: 1) Neutral(WP:NPOV)in that the article would be ``representing all views fairly and without bias`` (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view). In FACT, there are no requests from the NSBR, TSSR, SSBA, and ISSDC registries/clubs for the inclusion of any comparisons/contrasts (negative or otherwise) between any of the registries/clubs, including the ISSR/SSDCA, nor have they requested that any clubs other than their own, be exluded from inclusion in the article. In FACT, there has only been the request that ALL registries/clubs affiliated with the Shiloh Shepherd dog be simply noted, with appropriate website links included at the bottom of the art
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` == Poop == I'm moving your deletion notice, since you failed to look at the article history and see that vandalism has been committed and thus, that's why it's ``nonsense``. `
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I personally consider President Bush a war criminal, but I'm not going to go about altering Bush's entry for the reason stated above: pejorative terms are prohibited. As for 'our 3000'...I know it's difficult for you Americans to percieve of a living world beyond their own borders, but please try to understand that there are perspectives other than your own. From your perspective he's a terrorist. From that of those who believe his cause (wrongly, but believe nonetheless), he's a hero. Let's be neutral and keep all labels out.
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Thanks for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Thanks.
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` start Yeah JJL, this is the discussion I anticipated when I made the edits to describe Karate as an Okinawan art, Japanese Karate as a descendent of Okinawan Karate, and to include the info on Korea. I think this is going to be fairly contentious. You wrote: * Shotokan is true Karate, and Tang Soo Do is not. Yes, Tae Kwon Do grew from Tang Soo Do which grew from Shotokan which grew from Okinawan Karate which was a mixture of older Okinawan styles plus Southern Chinese Kung Fu: there's a continuum. But just because everyone uses 'Karate' in the States for its name recognition doesn't make it Karate. I think the Korean systems deserve scant attention here, as they're not Karate but rather arts made from Karate. (Note I edited that excerpt a little, it's not exactly a direct quote from what you wrote.) Well first let's leave Tae Kwon Do out of it. The Korean masters made a conscious decision and a concerted effort to move Tae Kwon Do away from Karate after about 1960 or so: they changed their art a lot. If we want to say it's not ``karate`` anymore, I really can't argue. It sure is different from what I think of as Karate. But the statement ``Shotokan is true Karate and Tang Soo Do is not`` is obviously flat-out wrong. Tang Soo Do basically is Shotokan. Lee Won Kuk and Byung Jick Ro were students of Funakoshi himself at the Shotokan dojo in Tokyo; when they opened schools in Korea teaching 唐手道 (karate-dō, pronounced tangsoo-do), what else could they possibly be teaching? Shotokan was their only background; in fact, the name Lee Won Kuk used for his school, ``Chung Do Kwan``, was chosen to show his school as the ``child`` of the Sung Do Kwan (Shotokan) school. Ki Whang Kim also studied at the Shotokan dojo in Japan. Hwang Kee states clearly in his writings that he learned Okinawan Karate (esp forms) from a book while working in Seoul around 1939. That pretty much had to be a book of Funakoshi's; and anyway he was working out in Lee Won Kuk's 唐手道 school for a year or so before opening his Moo Duk Kwan. How much lineage do we need? Yes, the Korean Tae Kwon Do masters made changes to their art to create Tae Kwon Do; and Hwang Kee later made some changes and created modern Soo Bahk Do. But Tang Soo Do still exists. When we look at modern Tang Soo Do practitioners, we can see they're doing a style that looks like Shotokan, and they're doing many of the Shotokan forms (but often using the older Okinawan names, rather than the names Funikoshi re-christened them with in the 1930s; or else a Korean name). It looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and its grandparents were ducks. What else can it be? Put another way: when we look at the arts themselves, what the practitioners actually do when they train and perform, there is less difference between Shotokan and Tang Soo Do than there is between Shotokan and Goju-Ryu, or between Shotokan and Wado-Ryu, or between Shotokan and the arts as practiced by traditional Okinawan masters. MUCH less difference. So when we say Shotokan is true Karate and Goju-Ryu is true Karate and Wado-Ryu is true Karate, and Tang Soo Do is not, what exactly are we saying? It doesn't make sense. You also said: * Try starting Tae Kwon Do discussions in the Karate fora at E-Budo and see what they think! No, I'm interested in a view which is grounded in history or an understanding of the content of the arts under discussion; and as free from bias as is possible. The E-Budo response would be meaningless on this point. ``E-budo.com is the Internet's premier bulletin board dedicated to Japanese martial arts and culture. Our moderated forums allow our members to share their interest in the Japanese arts.`` The bias is self-evident, right? I assume they will think ``X is not Karate because it is not Japanese.`` Not useful. Frankly, it's bigotry. If they're not even going to look at Tang Soo Do to examine the content of the art, then they have nothing to add. * As to EPAK, Ed Parker himself disliked calling the system 'Karate' and only did it on his studios to bring people in the door. I included a section on it only in an effort to be neutral. I don't know much about the style: didn't want to say it wasn't karate, without some input from someone who knows something about it. I did see a reference that Parker wasn't 100% comfortable with using the word ``karate``. On the other hand, Parker learned from Chow who learned from Mitose, and Mitose was pretty clearly teaching Karate. I'm not positive where exactly American Kempo changes from Karate to something else; if someone knows something about it and wants to edit, they should go right ahead. end N
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* Er, yeah, I did. p
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Having been in Russia a couple of times, take anything said by either their government, OR their press(*), take with an entire BOX of salt. :::(*)(which is 100% government controlled every newspaper, television station and radio station in the country is literally owned by people in the government). ::
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Hey, asshole, if similar outlook is all it takes to define a sockpuppet, then the use of particular and peculiar terminology is a smoking gun. If you're going to call everyone who doesen't agree with you a sockpuppet of me or Comaze, then likewise, You, Camridge, DaveRight/DRight, HelenDeGrey and HeadleyDown ARE ALL THE SAME PERSON. Or do you know admit that the supposed logic used to accuse me of making up a sockpuppet named DejaKitty is utterly fucked up and without basis or merit.
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Yes! Fantastic work.
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/Archive 5 (November 23, 2005 to December 22, 2005): topics included my leaving, coming back, a wee bit on the PATRIOT Act, bits due to RC patrol, some RFAs, and some insults.
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== Chnages to CSD templates == I think we need to revert your changes to the CSD templates. The trailing empty field was on purpose, to prevent the CSD templates themselves from being classified as deletable. /
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== CSD templates == After your reversions of 's changes, none of the csd templates puts the tagged page into Category:Candidates for speedy deletion anymore. So you might think of reverting your own changes. -
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Please note that it is not prohibited for editors to have sockpuppets. It is merely prohibited to use sockpuppets either (a) to evade a ban or block or (b) to generate the false appearance of consensus or the lack thereof. The only time a sockpuppet's edits are revertible on sight is when the sockpuppet was created by a banned user, which quite clearly is not the case here.
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Greece is a country which was part of the Ottoman Empire, where a lot of people are Turks, where they speak some dialect and they want to have the Macedonian name. This is my opinion about your country and these are also facts. You once were part of the Ottoman Empire, you have big Turkish minority in the eastern part of the country, every part of Greece uses some specific dialect of the greek language and you are claiming the ownership of the name Macedonia. About the Macedonian language: this language is recognized as official in our country and it is different from any other language in the world. That fact is recognized by many relevant international linguistic institutions. I can assure you have many friends in Macedonia that simply don't understand Bulgarian at all. Simply, Macedonian language is not a dialect of Bulgarian no matter how much you are truing to repeat that hoping that it will become true.
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::Let me be clear on this: is unquestionably a sockpuppet of ; furthermore, this editor edits from a different part of the country than does . Thus and are almost certainly not the same person, and one of them is quite likely an impersonator. This is based on server security logs (which I, as an administrator with CheckUser rights, have access to). The basis for the allegation that is a sockpuppet of is that Tomnstein was created using one of the IP addresses that customarily edits from (specifically, 67.166.40.198); this does not show up as a contribution but does appear in the server security logs. All of the sockpuppets identified above were identified on the basis of server security evidence, and not specifically on any analysis of contributions. If you prefer to have my conclusions verified, ask one of the other six users with CheckUser rights.
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Hi ArtVandelay13, Thank you for your very valuable contributions to Wikipedia, and a very warm welcome to the community! We're always grateful to have new people joining in and contributing with improvements to the encyclopedia. Here are a few suggestions to work your way around: *Do have a look at The five pillars of Wikipedia *I'm sure the tutorial will be of great help, as will reading How to edit a page *The Manual of Style has tips on making Wikipedia articles look consistent *You might also like to read How to write a great article and maybe the picture tutorial if you're interested in adding images to your articles *The help page contains loads of, well, helpful information I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Do remember to sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~), which will automatically produce your name and the datestamp. If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question or feel free to . Again, welcome! It's great to have you. Happy editing! -
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`Punishment, by itself, cannot produce a system of control. Expectation must exist in the subject along with fear of not reaching this expectation. Punishment and deception are tools used to create this fear. Everyone involved with this case realizes that deception exists - they understand that Carbonite and David Gerard are mischaracterizing my actions in order to build a case, but they don't know why. Why would they be trying so hard to pretend that I'm ``persistently behaving in a disruptive way`` when all evidence is to the contrary? Why would they push to bring this thing to trial when they know that they can't point to a single instance of ``disruption`` that is enforced equilaterally ? The Wikimedia Foundation Privacy Policy can shed some light on the issue. It is the policy of Wikimedia that personally identifiable data collected in the server logs will not be released by the developers who have access to it, except as follows: #In response to a valid subpoena or other compulsory request from law enforcement #With permission of the affected user #To Jimbo Wales, his legal counsel, or his designee, when necessary for investigation of abuse complaints. #Where the information pertains to page views generated by a spider or bot and its dissemination is necessary to illustrate or resolve technical issues. #Where the user has been vandalising articles or persistently behaving in a disruptive way, data may be released to assist in the targeting of IP blocks, or to assist in the formulation of a complaint to relevant Internet Service Providers #Where it is reasonably necessary to protect the rights, property or safety of the Wikimedia Foundation, its users or the public. Here we see that the Wikimedia privacy policy allows administrators to snoop on an editor when they have first established that the editor is ``persistently behaving in a disruptive way.`` It therefore becomes important to create a case against the editor before researching the developer database for his private information. This isn't just a matter of ethics. Laws such as the California Online Privacy Protection Act of 2003 make it illegal for a website to violate their own privacy statement. The Cabal is hoping that vague innuendo will be enough to create an official case. After they gain the legal right to snoop my personal information, they will be free to reveal what they already know. Don't be surprised to hear something along the lines of, ``We had no idea about this before the case opened, but look what we have discovered now that we have a legal right to investigate the personal information about this editor!`` Of course, none of the information they reveal will be direct or a threat to Wikipedia in any way, but it will be enough to hang me in the court of public opinion. We all have skeletons in our closet. The danger in giving our representatives a full set of keys to our personal lives is that they can't help sneaking a peek in the closet, even when they have no ethical or legal right to do so. `
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` :Thank you for your kind words and your warning. I've been aware of Carbonite and the Cabal's attempts to ``hang me out to dry`` for some time. It's hard to miss it when he accuses me of ``Wikistalking`` him at pages that I either created or edited before him. Does he really think that people won't try to verify his claims? Based on , it appears that some people act blindly on what Carbonite says, even when he is proven to have violated policy. Nevertheless, I have faith that a preponderance of the editors at Wikipedia are like you, more interested in good articles and harmonious editing than in pushing POV through their influence and administrative powers.`
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==Diana vs. Mother Teresa== I'm sure I'm not the only one who was a bit disgusted by extreme amount of attention given to Diana following her death in comparison to Mother Teresa both of who died at about the same time. Anyone have a reference, since I'm sure this has been discussed elsewhere or who can think of a way to phrase this?
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::::It is not a xeroxed page; they probably did not make it just for me, but it is recent, and coming straight from a printer. It is more or less a summary of the other documents they sent me (see above). The closest word to describe it would probably be factsheet, even though, as mentioned, there are not many facts in there. I'll take care of asking for precisions, in addition to the copyright question. However, I don't expect an answer before early next year, of course.
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Thanks, for adding to my anwsers to those psyop questions. I tried to keep my anwsers real simple, some of them weren't that easily explain. I have always wondered what the old mos indentifier was. How long were you in psyop? I am in a reserve unit currently.
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Same from me. And Happy Kwanzaa if you count it. Thank you also very much for that nice award. I hope we will collaborate together in future with some African American history-related articles. -
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== hey cumtaster == how is the cum tasting going?
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Ogstrokes and 24.239.149.9 are the same person. 24.239.149.9 was before registration, and OGstrokes is after registration.
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The contributions for St johns from
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== um hi lol == r u fixin 2 do something about it, fag?
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== hi dipshit == just so we're clear, i'm into vandalizing, making occassional intentional errors, and making valuable contributions that none of you other idiots know anything about. the problem is, which is which? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLpenis
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, 22 December 2005 (UTC) *Oppose. I agree with the principle of simplifying and combining things as much as possible, but not to the extent that the title of the article conveys false information. The International Front for Jihad against the Zionists and Crusaders does not have only Islamic members. 19:32
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` I have no desire to belong to bin Laden's group, only to create factually correct articles. If we created an article incorporating the World Islamic Front (WIF) with the larger organization created by the WIF through their Jihad Against Zionists and Crusaders fatwa, it would incorrectly identify members of the larger organization as being strictly Islamic. Nowhere in the Jihad Against Zionists and Crusaders fatwa, does the WIF limit the membership of the organization to Muslim. In his video and audio addresses, bin Ladin often refers to the International Front for Jihad against the Zionists and Crusaders (IFJZC) as a multi-cultural organization or movement concerned primarily with doing what is right for all people by objecting to the special interests of Zionists and Crusaders. He regularly appeals to Americans to join the IFJZC to fight ``tyranny and suppression of freedom to [our] own country, ...the Patriot Act under the disguise of fighting terrorism.`` `
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` ``In any country of the world this kind of premediated attempted murder would carry life in prison or even capital punishment. How could he get away with less than a year?`` Did you even read the whole article?`
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GO THE FUCK AWAY DUMB COMMIE SCUMBAGS!
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==MTA strike=== KEEP YOUR VANDALISM IN CHECK COMMIE SHIT STAIN
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` ::If I go through all the trouble of cliping the segments that show bin Laden appealing to Americans to join the IFJZC, will you change your vote? ::There is no Arabic word for ``Zionist,`` so one needs to be mindful when translating as to whether the user was talking about all Jews or only those Jews with Zionist ambitions. I think it's pretty obvious from the Jihad Against Zionists and Crusaders fatwa, which group bin Laden was talking about. `
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(Sorry, I forgot to sign earlier. I'm new.)
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:: Dear Fplay, you make me feel as if I commited a crime. It is fine with me that you forked the portals from the categories, although it seems that you did it without consultation with anybody or edit summaries. Our only disagreement is on which items should be in the navigation bar. A healthy reaction on your part would be to talk this out, rather than this kind of messages on my talk page.
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== Editing runway template == Go ahead and edit the template as you see fit. I don't have much time for Wikipedia these days. Cheers.
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I also wish to thank you Kelly, I suspected most of those you have revealed, and it's wonderful to see this problem get some kind of resolution, as that new user seemed to be multiplying out of control with so many IDs it was getting stupid. Thanks again for your time in resolving this problem, regards.
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`Shuyin is too big and well-developed an article to be moved here. `
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` ===Comment=== I think it would be best for all involved to give Missionary/Retcon (I will use Retcon because it is the oldest of the accounts) a chance to redeem himself, and for all parties to terminate the inquisition against him. Using a sockpuppet or changing to a different account to escape unwanted criticism is permitted at Wikipedia. If his actions had been limited to that, I would not have responded to Tommstein's request at all as an ill-founded request. However, what led me to respond were two factors: one, that Retcon had fraudulently attempted to mislead people into believing he and Missionary were different people, and two, that he created at least one impersonation account, impersonating a person who he was clearly at odds with. In any case, Retcon has acknowledged and apologized for his inappropriate acts; Wikipedia's ``assume good faith`` policy all but requires to accept his apology and move on. So let's please do so. I'd especially call on and to lay off the rhetoric; it will not help defuse the situation. Personal attacks (such as calling Retcon a ``compulsive liar``) are neither helpful nor welcomed. There is bad blood on both sides of this issue, and frankly I'd like to see y'all work this out on your own with civility, rather than escalating the situation to the point that intervention by the Arbitration Committee is required. `
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At last. I agree )
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Panic button time!!! How can one distinguish the band member, Ryan Anderson, from a terrorist who happens to have the same name?
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== Admin power abuse == Don't lock pages when you don't get your own way. —
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::Ahem. Consensus? How many people argued for its deletion? —
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` :::::``Don't be a dick`` is a well-accepted phrase. You are attempting to move the conversation from your assumption of bad faith to my classifying that as being a dick. | ) `
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` == Extensive Welfare System? == Presently, Singapore can be politically analysed as a democratic socialist country and has an extensive welfare system, although de facto it has a dominant-party system. We have an extensive welfare system? I know we have no unemployment monetary benefits, no disability monetary benefits, no eldery monetary benefits. (monetary benefits = receiving money from the govt like unemployment claims in developed countries like Australia and the USA) Wasn't there cases back then where poor families who couldn't scrap up enough money to pay for water and electricity bills were featured on the news, and our govt made a statement like ``PUB (public utility board) not running a charity``? *PUB = govt linked monopoly on all public utilities in singapore. They are the only water and electricity provider in the country. Don't worry, I'm not looking for a flame war nor am I a ``govt lackey`` lol. I just want to make this wiki entry as accurate as possible. I think it is pretty good that we do not face wars, terror attacks, famine or natural disasters in Singapore. Though crime rate is considerably high (my low is at zero P), its much harder to get killed or raped here than say in the States. Anyone with knowledge and verifiable sources regarding our ``extensive welfare system`` please enlightened.`
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****Don't be evasive. I shall have to repeat myself. How many people argued for its deletion? Don't lock pages when you don't get your own way. —
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32,468,819
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:Hmm, I'm pretty sure 'A Descriptive Vocabulary...' has already been keyboarded. I'll look into it with my colleagues who have worked on Nyungar. I don't have Bindon's compilation of Nyungar wordlists to hand (another thing in the office...) but he might have it in an electronic format of some kind (though probably ugly). cheers,
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32,473,200
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` I read the text, and it seems neutral to me, except a few reservations I made. It presents the controversy from all angles. Rejecting a text on Wikipedia because it is amateurish is like inhabitants of an aquarium rejecting a new resident because he smells fishy. My reservations are following: * What economic analysis does show that ``by the 1930s the standard of living of Palestinian Arabs was approximately twice that of Arabs in surrounding countries, whereas in Ottoman Turkish times it was lower than in surrounding countries.`` * typo: ``100,000 Arabs immigrating in 1880 would have produced many descendants by 1948 than 100,000 Arabs immigrating in 1930.`` Correct to: ``100,000 Arabs immigrating in 1880 would have produced many more descendants by 1948 than 100,000 Arabs immigrating in 1930.`` * Joan Peters's opinion is clearly a small minority view, and should not be mentioned. `
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32,473,368
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:Ah, with the pipe character? You are the first person to point that out instead of getting authoritarian! Thanks for amending Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_%28China-related_articles%29#Linking_to_Wiktionary too. That's great. —
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32,473,758
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` ``Silly``? Please read Wikipedia:No personal attacks. has a much better approach that you. He's pointed out that I'd missed the pipe trick that makes the template unnecessary. Much better than your heavy-handed blocking. On another note, the answer to my question was ``there was only one delete vote``, not what you said. — `
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32,476,053
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Opinion is opinion and everyone has one of those. You really think all of these aliens were dropped into a volcano based on no evidence, that alien souls are in your body? Fucking idiots. My opinion is more correct than yours
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32,481,618
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` Please stop adding nonsense to Wikipedia. It is considered vandalism. If you would like to experiment, use the sandbox. Thank you. () `
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32,485,592
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:::::erm ... the biggotst of them all? P
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32,488,778
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This message is regarding the page Arsenal F.C.. Thanks for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Thanks. – /
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32,491,488
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` As the reference you are using: http://ue.eu.int/ueDocs/cms_Data/docs/pressData/en/ec/87642.pdf (page 8) names teh country as Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia it is more accurate to use this name. Also using teh term of just ``Macedonia`` may please the Christian population of teh country but is still not recognised by E.U, the subject of this article, and also might lead to the dissambiguation site of the MAcedonian region. Lest use the sources and reference acurately `
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32,503,533
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I will indeed, thank you for your welcome, great to be back! It's really sad that these guys have been attacking everyone who doesn't conform to their ideology. 3 Months on and still they are hung on to poor language and extremism.
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32,503,770
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:::Please also note that Hitler was most certainly not anti-religion (anti-semitic, yes, but not anti-religion), and that Stalin, while implementing a totalitarianly enforced state atheism, was not a fascist. You would do well to recognize these subtlties.
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32,504,823
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Horace Mann does have the best Model UN team in the country. You're clearly just jealous because you weren't good enough to attend
| 2,005
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32,504,912
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: Naivity proven yet again )
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32,506,569
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What about non- Macedonians (nation) Macedonians (region) whp still want to remain Macedonians (region). Do they have to stop calling themselves Macedonians (region) or do they have to rename the region where they leave? Move to Macedonia (state) from Macedonia (region)? How many years do you Macedonian region) Greeks, Bulgarian Macedonians (region) and Macedonians (nation) want to spend over this problem that has no solution? Lets break the rope with a knife like Alexander did, You need better politisians you Macedonians (region) and Macedonians (nation)
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32,508,528
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== Fuck You == Fuck You. Get a vinyl and put in your mama ass your scrotal dj
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32,508,731
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== Han.. Fuck You == Then, fuck you!
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