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3,280 |
The paucity of this line of argument is that it is provably false.
Texas state officials COULD and DID investigate child abuse charges.
They COULD and DID apprehend Koresh peaceably. The COULD and DID
impound his weapons for the duration. And Koresh was NOT CONVICTED.
Note that child abuse and similar accusations are STATE matters, not
federal. The state COULD and DID handle them properly and peaceably,
and furthermore violating no one's constitutional rights in the process.
So maybe the best way for BATF/FBI to save people is to mind their
own fucking business.
-- | 5 |
3,250 |
Has this video been made public? The FBI spokesman also said they
first knew of the fire when black smoke started pouring out, but
later said that *three* different FBI agents saw B-D members starting
the fires.
Also the FBI claims to have listening devices (bugs) in the compound.
Will they make public the tapes of what the B-D said?
Well sealing the initial search warrent, keeping the media miles away,
not letting the B-D talk to the public, making contradictory statements,
not releasing the vidio & tapes are not steps to ensure public confidence
in their actions.
| 5 |
3,436 | Does anyone know where I can access an online copy of the proposed "jobs"
or "stimulus" legislation? Please E-mail me directly and if anyone else
is interested, I can post this information.
Thanks,
Mike Brooks
NOTE: My E-mail address in the news header is NOT correct. My correct
address is: | 5 |
939 |
Attention please!
According to the rules of usenet flame wars, once a discussion degenerates
to the point where Hitler is mentioned, that flame war may be declared
ended. I would like to take this opportunity to do that now. Clearly
further discussion is not useful with the current set of facts, and the
current name calling and invocation of Hitler's name is not productive even
by the standards of usenet talk groups.
If you must continue, please don't discuss this in misc.legal. It's not
about the law. If you would like to discuss the law as it applies to the
Waco incident, please ask questions of the form: "if the FBI started the
fire accidentally, who would be legally responsible for the deaths".
Note that followups are set not to include misc.legal.
| 5 |
7,335 | "Freed om of Religion" has absolutely nothing to do with building a small
arsenal and grooming 10-year old children to be your wife. "I'll come out
as soon as I finish my manuscript on the Seven Seals." Oh, OK, David.
I agree that Koresh was as much of a victim as a perpetrator; this because
he grew up inside the cult, and engaged in a power struggle where his
supporters helped inflate his ego.
That doesn't change the fact that he was a loose fucking cannon with a
shitload of serious weapons. Or that he was banging thirteen year olds and
twisting their impressionable little minds.
This was no MOVE fuck-up. A helicoptor was thermal-imaging the compound
that afternoon and detected three fires erupting almost simultaneously.
There were no CS CANISTERS... a specially modified Abrams was pupming the
stuff in. No chance of starting a fire there. Kerosene lamps? Maybe one,
but not three fires. No way. Koresh wasn't just talking out of his ass. I
expected this to happen.
Maybe they WANTED it to look like murder. He had 50+ days. I think this was
coming the whole time. He didn't even put the children in the buried bus or
the underground bunker during the CS seige. He put them up into the tower
to die. Fuck all of you "Big Brother" paranoid freaks. The only good thing
to come of any of this is that there will be one less group of crazoids to
attract some of the more rootless members of our society. | 5 |
3,459 | Source: "Adventures in the Near East" by A. Rawlinson, Jonathan Cape,
30 Bedford Square, London, 1934 (First published 1923) (287 pages).
(Memoirs of a British officer who witnessed the Armenian genocide of 2.5
million Muslim people)
p. 178 (first paragraph)
"In those Moslem villages in the plain below which had been searched for
arms by the Armenians everything had been taken under the cloak of such
search, and not only had many Moslems been killed, but horrible tortures
had been inflicted in the endeavour to obtain information as to where
valuables had been hidden, of which the Armenians were aware of the
existence, although they had been unable to find them."
Serdar Argic | 5 |
3,175 | T.S.Reddy writes
While the people here may be claim to be Muslim, the actions reported here,
if they actually happened, are 180 degrees opposite from what Islam stands
for, and I, for one, condemn them.
-- | 5 |
5,466 |
Some of the survivors have been "interviewed" on TV as they were going
to or returning from court. They basically said, no way was there any
kind of suicide pact or attempt.
| 5 |
2,801 |
If any reliance was put on women's "mothering instinct" in an official
explanation of a govt. action during a Republican administration, would
it generate so few complaints? (as opposed to complaints about the action
itself)
--
"Spending programs are now 'investments,' taxes are 'contributions,' and
these are the same people who say _I_ need a dictionary?" - Dan Quayle 2/19/93 | 5 |
2,408 |
+>Can people please stop the 'I think/know the BATF/FBI are completely
+>responsible but they'll cover it up so that the investigation will
+>show that Koresch is responsible' bs. In an investigation of this
+>size with the feds, state, and civilians involved in the
+>investigation it would be practially impossible to cover up.
The place has burned to the ground. The FBI and company
have the whole area cordoned off and have already arrested
reporters for being at the site and taking pictures.
All your going to get in terms of a story is what the FBI, ATF
and the Texas Rangers decide to release.
+>And with Republicans like Arlen Spector calling for investigations,
+>this isn't going to be handled with kid gloves.
When the Philadephia cops dropped their bomb on MOVE and
managed to burn down an entire neighborhood many people said
the same thing. Dead men and rubble tell no tales that the
police dont want them to tell. | 5 |
1,074 |
Too many MDs on the list and not enough RNs in my opinion.
Doug
| 5 |
6,766 |
I guess that it was not acceptable because Germany *also* chose
a path of aggression simultaneously that put the interests of
other countries in peril. I wonder whether US or other countries
would have risked themselves if only Jews were persecuted and
Hitler had no imperialist ambitions. (I am no student of history
and I am just asking questions.)
I don't think they would have. After all the U.S. was one of the
countries that turned away Jewish refugees when there was still time
to get them out. (Considered and rejected at the Cabinet level then..)
...
Under what conditions should US interfere in foregin countries,
is an abstraction one must clarify before resorting to acrimonious
accusations of religious bigotry and such.
As I understand it, International law provides the right of any
country to intervene to prevent genocide. I think once the World
Court has ruled that genocide is being committed...
If a Human Rights Czar is appointed at the U.N., we could have
international monitors recording events and responses of local
officials and develop an objective basis. This could be backed by
adjudication at the International Court of Justice and enforcement
through a Rapid Deployment Force under the U.N. Secretary General's
command. I would like to see the U.N. directly impose ICJ rulings
whenever feasible (without the possibility of vetos at the UN Security
Council.. much as the President can't veto a U.S. Supreme Court
ruling).
The U.S. is now supporting the effort to appoint the HR Czar -- the
third world opposition is led by three countries, China, Iran and
Pakistan (What company is Pakistan keeping!).
The U.S. is also reconsidering its opposition to the U.N. force
initially envisaged in the Charter (although under the control of the
Security Council). The UN SC is quite a flawed body. Rogue
governments like the PRC have even threatened their veto in the last
few months to block the move to place U.N. troops in Bosnia under
Chapter 7 instead of 11 (if I have the numbers straight) where they
could have moved from being a monitoring to an enforcement force
without requiring further SC action. (The PRC even continues to
threaten using its veto on U.N. action despite the ICJ ruling. The
current set-up requires the SC to enforce ICJ rulings..).
Peace, | 5 |
5,016 | From article <1qvampINNmhf@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, by stephen@orchid.UCSC.EDU:
I believe that this is not contradictory on the basis that
the quality of media reporting varies greatly based on the
subject at hand. The media has proven itself very accurate
is the areas of presenting raw, undisputed data. One good
example would be the weather page in which high and low
temperatures of the previous day for a large number of
locations are posting. There is little evidence to show
that they are in error.
The American media has failed us in its analysis of complex
events, however. I'm sure that we can come up with many
news stories that have left us angry because so many facts
have been ommitted. Cases that come to mind are the
invasion of Panama, the war with Iraq, the disaster in Waco,
the issues surrounding the acceptance of gays into the
military, the war on drugs, and many others.
The story that you bring to light was regarding the new
sex survey. While I'm sure that due to lazyness some of
the data was ommitted from the article, I would venture to
guess that the data that was presented did not deviate
from the survey. I do, however, think that it would be
folly to have blind faith in a single newswriter's
analysis of this data. In this particular case, there was
little analysis, and the reader was left to draw his/her
own convictions.
Many netters, Mr. Cramer included, often forget that the
American media are merely a number of businesses, who's
purpose in life is to make money for their owners and
stockholders. Revenues come largely from advertisers
who merely want maximum useful exposure per dollar. The
media is like fast food; the quality of the food (or of
the reporting) will improve only if the customers demand
as such. Otherwise, it is business as usual. | 5 |
233 |
What say you and Nick go somewhere else with this shool yard crap. | 5 |
622 |
Look, I don't want to bore everybody here with the physics of woodstoves,
but they're not anything like your Caloric gas range. It takes about
three hours for a woodstove to get hot enough to cook on, and afterwards
you can't just "shut it off" -- it will contain hot embers for over 24
hours even after you choke it COMPLETELY.
So it ain't exactly "light up the stove and cook me a batch of them
pancakes, Aunt J..." If you use a woodstove for cooking, or even for
heating your house at night, you will have it lit to SOME extent all
the time. Trust me on this one, I speak from experience.
-- | 5 |
6,288 | Elias Davidsson writes...
ED> The following are quotations from Zionist leaders. They appear in
ED> numerous scholarly works dealing with the Palestine question. I urge those
ED> who have access to original sources, to verify the authenticity of the
ED> source and post here their finding, adhering to the truth whatever it be.
It is your responsibility for posting quotes in context. Your
phony 'research center' is the source of the most unscholarly,
out-of-context, agenda-ridden, and sophmoric propaganda that I
have ever seen. Don't believe me, folks? Let's take a little
stroll through a few of Elias Davidsson's contributions to our
understanding of the middle east.
ED> Quotations from Zionist leaders
ED> 1. "There was no such thing as Palestinians"
ED> (Golda Meir, Prime Minister of Israel, London Sunday
ED> Times, 15 June 1969)
And what do suggest that she meant by this? Do you think she
meant that the Palestinians don't exist? Or does it actually
mean that the people who self-identify as 'Palestinians,' did
not appear to be a distinct ethnic group in the eyes of Golda
Meir?
ED> 2. "There is, however, a difficulty from which the Zionist
ED> dares not avert his eyes, though he rarely likes to face it.
ED> Palestine proper has already its inhabitants."
ED> (Israel Zangwill, The Voice of Jerusalem, London 1920,
ED> p.88)
When this was written, seventy three years ago, the people of
the region were not all Jews. They are not all Jews now. No
Jew but the most rabid bigot has ever called for an Israel to
be ONLY for Jews. That was true then. It is true now.
ED> "[The Palestinians are] beasts walking on two legs."
ED> (Menachem Begin, Prime Minister of Israel in a speech to
ED> the Knesset,
ED> quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, 'Begin and the "Beasts", New
ED> Statesman, 25 June 1982)
Since you inserted the words 'The Palestinians are' we cannot
know what Begin was talking about.
For someone who wants to embellish his own importance with an
absurd pseudo-organizational name like the 'Center for Policy
Research,' you are not a very honest person.
ED> "Both the process of expropriation [of the Palestinians]
ED> and the removal of the poor must be carried out
ED> discreetly and circumspectly".
ED> (Dr. Theodor Herzl, The Complete Diaries, Herzl Press,
ED> 1960, I., p.88)
Herzl died eighty nine years ago. Are you suggesting that he
has stated what is Israel's policy today? Have you ever seen
Israel even entertain a policy to exclude non-Jews, let alone
actually try to remove non-Jews from Israel? If you actually
believe that this quote has anything to do with Israel's non-
Jewish citizenry today, you are an idiot. But if you realize
that Israel has no intention of removing non-Jewish Israelis,
then you are nothing but a common liar. This one time I will
give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you are stupid.
ED> "We shall try to spirit the penniless population [the
ED> Palestinians] across the border by procuring employment
ED> for it in the transit countries, while denying it any
ED> employment in our own country"
ED> (Theodor Herzl, The Complete Diaries, Herzl Press, 1960,
ED> I, p.88)
Once again you quote a man gone for almost a century. You do
so within the context of modern day Israel.
Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. How does this fact define the
United States today?
ED> "[Jews] must expel Arabs and take their place"
ED> (David Ben Gurion, 1937, quoted in Shabtai Teveth, Ben
ED> Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press,
ED> 1985, p. 89)
Did he say 'Jews,' or did you add this?
This was also a statement from ten years before Israel became
a state. It has no bearing on Israel.
ED> "We must do everything to ensure they [the
ED> Palestinian refugees] never do return"
ED> (David Ben Gurion, in his diary, 19 July 1948, quoted in
ED> Michael Bar Zohar, Ben Gurion: The Armed Prophet,
ED> Prentice-Hall, 1967, p.157)
YOU added the words 'the Palestinian refugees.' And by doing
so, you are misleading people into believing that Ben Gurion,
who was expressing his hope that people who fled their lands,
at the encouragement of people such as KING ABDULLAH, and the
MUFTI OF JERUSALEM, was gloating over people abandoning their
homes. What he was refering to were the Arabs with whom Jews
were at war.
ED> "The country was mostly an empty desert, with only
ED> a few islands of Arab settlement"
ED> (Shimon Peres, Minister of Defense, quoted in David's
ED> Sling: The Arming of Israel, Weidenfeld and Nicholson,
ED> 1970, p.249)
At the time of the rebirth of Israel this was certainly true,
especially when compared to what Israel has accomplished in a
few short decades.
ED> "All this story about the danger of extermination [of
ED> Jews] has been blown up....to justify the annexation of
ED> new Arab territories"
ED> (Mordechai Bentov, Israeli Cabinet Minister, Al
ED> Hamishmar, 14 April 1972)
Since Israel has not annexed even one millimeter of territory
in more twenty six years, this quote is irrelevant.
ED> "Neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can
ED> disqualify terrorism as a means of combat"
ED> (Yitzhak Shamir, Hehazit, Summer 1943 [Journal of the
ED> LEHI, the Stern Gang], translated from the Israeli daily
ED> Al-Hamishmar, 24 December 1987
Again, you are quoting a man who was fighting for what he had
been promised from a time as ancient as biblical, to the time
of the Balfour Declaration, just a few short years back. And
what was thought of and described as terrorism by Jews didn't
include slaughtering Olympic athletes, brutally murdering the
innocent, attacking school buses, and murdering another human
being for the sole reason that he or she is an Arab.
ED> "The domination of Jewish agriculture by Arab
ED> workers is a cancer in our body"
ED> (A. Uzan, Israeli Minister of Agriculture, Ha'aretz, 13
ED> December 1974)
There were serious concerns about a work force that consisted
of people from OUTSIDE Israel. It is a wise to be concerned.
A work force consisting of foreigners is not a good situation
for a country.
ED> "There can be only one national home in Palestine,
ED> and that a Jewish one, and no equality in the partnership
ED> between Jews and Arabs"
ED> (Montague David Eder, President of the Zionist
ED> Federation of Great Britain, 1931,
ED> in Doreen Ingrams, comp., Palestine Papers 1917-1922,
ED> Seeds of Conflict, George Braziller, 1973, p. 135)
This also has no meaning for a country formed seventeen years
after this statement was made. Obviously times change. This
is NOT what Israel is about today. I believe the peace talks
make this quote irrelevant.
ED> "There is not a single Jewish village in this country
ED> that has not been built on the site of an Arab village"
ED> (Moshe Dayan, Ha'aretz, 4 April 1969...)
This is completely false.
ED> "Some people talk of expelling 700,000 to 800,000
ED> Arabs in the event of a new war, and instruments have
ED> been prepared"
ED> (Aharon Yariv, former chief of Israeli military
ED> intelligence, 1980, Inquiry, 8 December 1980)
Expelled from where? Israel? The occupied territories? New
Jersey? Is there any way we can read this and get an idea as
to what on earth he was talking about. Obviously not.
ED> "We should there [in Palestine] form a portion of the
ED> rampart of Europe against Asia, an outpost of civilization
ED> as opposed to barbarism."
ED> (Dr. Theodor Herzl, The Jewish State, London, 1896, p.
ED> 29)
Interesting notion. Considering that this was written nearly
a century ago, it is quite visionary.
ED> "I deeply believe in launching preventive war
ED> against the Arab States without further hesitation. By
ED> doing so we will achieve two targets: firstly, the
ED> annihilation of Arab power; and secondly, the expansion
ED> of our territory"
ED> (Menachem Begin, in a speech to the Knesset, 12 October
ED> 1955)
This was said nearly forty years ago. Begin is dead. And it
should be obvious to anybody that if Israel was expansionist,
it would have ANNEXED the occupied territories right after it
captured them. Israel would not be negotiating to get rid of
them.
ED> "During the last 100 years our people have been in a
ED> process of building up the country and the nation, of
ED> expansion, of getting additional Jews and additional
ED> settlements in order to expand the borders here. Let no
ED> Jew say that the process has ended. Let no Jew say that
ED> we are near the end of the road."
ED> (Moshe Dayan, Ma'ariv, 7 July 1968)
He's dead, too. And since Israel has not annexed ANY land at
all since 1967, you are once again wasting bandwidth with all
of these misleading quotes. They are so out of sync with the
reality of Israel, that you do nothing but make yourself look
like a fanatic desperate to sway people, by misleading them.
ED> "Let us not today fling accusations at the [Palestinian
ED> Arab] murderers. Who are we that we should argue
ED> against their hatred ? For eight years now they sit in
ED> their refugee camps in Gaza, and before their very eyes,
ED> we turn into our homestead the land and the villages in
ED> which they and their forefathers have lived. We are a
ED> generation of settlers, and without the steel helmet and
ED> the cannon we cannot plant a tree and build a home. Let
ED> us not shrink back when we see the hatred fermenting
ED> and filling the lives of hundreds of thousands of Arabs,
ED> who sit all around us. Let us not avert our gaze, so that
ED> our hand shall not slip. This is the fate of our generation,
ED> the choice of our life - to be prepared and armed, strong
ED> and tough - or otherwise, the sword will slip from our
ED> first, and our life will be snuffed out."
ED> (Moshe Dayan, eulogy of Roy Rutenberg at Kibbutz Nahal
ED> Oz, 1956, quoted in Uri Avneri, Israel without Zionists,
Collier Books, Macmillan, New York, 1971, p.154)
Interesting quote. It's true that we should never lose sight
of the plight of these people. We should also recognize that
this quote preceded the disgusting wave of Arab terrorism and
violence directed at innocent people, that began in 1972 with
the massacre of the Israeli athletes in Munich, and continues
to this day. | 5 |
3,450 |
No, it appears he didn't. Well, I think he's on to something here. I
mean the post he responded to (not) did pretty much speak for itself.
| 5 |
6,464 |
Oh, do please try not to be ludicrous. SO=Significant Other, a term I employed to avoid the awkward construction "girlfriend or wife".
A "deviant" is someone who does not fit an "accepted norm." By that definition, I would certainly be a deviant, as bisexuality is not an accepted norm in American society so far. This term, of course, really has no negative aspects inherent in its denotation. I presume you intended it as a term of abuse. It's a great pity you feel such tactics to be necessary, but hardly surprising since you have no factual basis for your absurd beliefs.
May I attempt to emulate your style of discourse with a term of abuse? Ahem...You addle-pated jellyfish! The post to which I responded was a highly amusing one in which you belittled homosexuals for having no political clout. I would be further amused if you would explain to me why having no political clout and constituting a political minority are different.
And yet you call them "girls!" The feminists would be up in arms.
Cough, cough. Well, well, you certainly are a fine, upstanding fellow, you are, sir. And like many "fine, upstanding fellows," you have the reading comprehension of a dyslexic anteater. Perhaps I should have been more explicit in pointing out that females constitute a political minority in this country when last I checked, and that your obvious lack of respect for these minorities equates to a lack of respect for women. That is, of course, a conceptual stretch of logic, but given your slow uptake as de
monstrated so far, I figure we should start simple and work up. Don't worry, you'll get it
!
This is very true, this bit about nature asserting itself. Homosexuality has always been a part of human society, and always will be, for that is the natural order. If you're naive enough to believe otherwise, go right ahead; we'll try not to snicker too loudly behind your back.
"Inevitable." Chortle. Anyone would think you had some idea what you were talking about. I haven't seen fact one from you, and until I do you can just dispense with the bullshit, and tell us what we already know, that you're a clueless little slime mold with no concept of reality beyond The Donna Reed Show. Live a little, and then come back and tell us all about the "natural order of things." You're in a bubble, and it's really going to rock your world when you come out.
"Foolish and misguided." Oh, this is too much. So which religious figure do YOU believe you are? And how do you know so much about the nature of man? You're almost too amusing to be worth the effort of crushing your pealike brain.
Gee, you sound awfully sure of yourself. "Methinks the bigot doth protest too much." Admit it: you're scared shitless that what you've been spoonfed all your sorry little life was wrong, and you're trying to escape that fear by a blind faith that you know, deep down, is based in nothing, nothing at all. Go ahead, clutch your unfounded declaratives to your empty breast; ignore the myriad of societies that have accepted homosexuality as equally valid or even mystical. Ignore the solid, inescapable fact t
hat we've existed as long as humans have. Fear us. Go ahead. Laugh at us if it makes you feel better. We both know you're just whistling in the dark. There's one group that's stamped out whenever it appears, in any form, and that's the group of boneheads who fancy themselves morally superior. You're in that group, and you're slowly and steadily being stamped out. Preach while you can, little man...it won't be long.
That's the first truth you've told so far. I don't hate hets, sir. I'm bisexual, and I embrace man- and womankind alike. I have nothing against those who don't understand my love. But you deny its potency and validity. You would crush us all, human beings to a one, in your imagined divinity. It's fools like you that stir my ire...idiots with the small minds, who can't think for themselves, who know nothing about how the real world operates, and who hate because they are told what to do and do it like
sheep, who hate everyone who refuses to be a sheep. You're not part of the norm. You're part of a minority--YES, a minority!--with supreme, o'erweening arrogance. Your hubris will topple, because it always has, because those with intelligence know it to be a clown's costume.
Wow, that was pretentious! I sometimes wonder why I waste my talents on zeroes like you. I really have no interest in continuing this effortless discussion; after all, this is for me the proverbial battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Come back with some swords--i.e. facts--and we shall do battle. Till then, begone from my sight.
Drewcifer | 5 |
1,322 |
This is where Freeman's love of accuracy becomes really ridiculous.
[his point was that it is possible under certain circumstances for many people
to carry concealed in Illinois]
I did read the law before I commented on it. Judging from replies I received
about my "Semantics on t.p.g" post many (if not most) people here on t.p.g
assume that when CCW laws are asked about the person is asking about the
possibility of an ordinary citizen getting one. It would also follow that said
person would get the CCW to carry on his/her person away from their home and/or
business.
Maybe Freeman did prove his point but his point is not relevant. The thing
that most people seem to care about when they ask questions about carrying
a concealed weapon is whether or not they can carry it concealed on their
person when they are out on the street somewhere. I'm sure that not many
people are concerned with whether or not they can carry concealed at home.
Speaking as someone who lives in Illinois (the only place where the above
quoted law is relevant :-)) I know that it is legal to own a handgun here (I
am not taking into account city ordinances). I could care less about whether
or not I can carry concealed at home. I only care about the fact that
I can't carry concealed in the place where it really counts- out on the street.
Freeman loves to be accurate and I can understand that (especially not) but he
seems to be forgetting that accurate facts don't always replace common sense.
I am not going to followup to this thread anymore because I believe that it is
useless to argue these points anymore. The only thing that is happening now
is that Freeman and I are "running around in circles" trying to prove each
other wrong and I do not have the time to be playing games anymore. Of course
now Freeman will attack me about my use of common sense in some of my earlier
posts but what can I do. My only advice for Freeman - quit being so picky
about accuracy sometimes and use your common sense; it really does work some-
times. | 5 |
5,902 | Lord, I hope you don't Hoover was a pro! He was monstrous. | 5 |
2,343 |
Well over 100,000 in Lebanon alone.
1,000,000 - 2,000,000 in the Iran/Iraq conflict, even if Iranians
aren't Arabs, strictly speaking. (They seem to hate the Zionists at
least as much as anyone else in the neighborhood. Is there some
correlation perhaps between hating Israel and killing off your own
people?)
| 5 |
2,563 |
Actually, the record of the Allies activities, in the face of
incontrovertible evidence as to what the Nazis (may they rot in hell)
were doing, clearly points to the conclusion that they would have done
nothing. The railways to the camps were not bombed, despite the ease
of doing so. The US, the "place of refuge" allowed in a bare pittance
of Jews from Europe, primarily for public relations, so that the
government could say it was "doing something". Many ships with
refugees were turned away from US shores; some found refuge in Cuba or
South America, many others sunk or had to return to Europe (with
predictable consequences). The hope today is that we have
collectively learned a lesson, and are less complacent to ignore other
countries' "internal affairs". The sad reality is that this does not
seem to be the case.
| 5 |
7,283 | Mark Ira Kaufman writes
Never mind the fact that these people were denied the right to a fair trial.
And Israel was supposed to uphold "Western values", eh?
Check your facts before bashing Islam again. While there may be Muslim
anti-semites, this is no way a tenet of the religion. Saying anti-semitism is
"basic" to Islam is implicating the entire Muslim world, based on a selective
sampling of a few people, and it flies in the face of what Islam teaches.
Peace.
-- | 5 |
5,264 | I'm putting together a list of the civil rights violations perpetrated against
the Davidians by the FBI/BATF. Here is what I've got so far. Care to add
any or provide more backup info?
First Amendment:
1) FBI/BATF violated Davidians right to free exercise of religion from the
start. We now have a de facto precident against any minority religion.
2) FBI/BATF violated BD right to free speach by:
a> preventing them to speak to media
b> preventing them from practicing their beliefs
3) FBI/BATF violated the freedom of the press by:
a> keeping them 2 miles from the Davidians
b> preventing the media to cover the FBI/BATF actions close-up
c> censoring media reports
4) FBI/BATF violated the BD's right to peaceable assemble
a> proven by initial baseless assault
Second Amendment:
1) The BATF went after them because they had too many guns and guns that the
FBI/BATF didn't approve of. 'Nuff Said.
Fourth Amendment:
1) The right of the BD's to be "secure in their persons, houses, papers, and
effects against unreasonable searches and seizures" was violated by:
a> Initial baseless assault
Fifth Amendment:
1) The Davidians were "held to answer for a capital or otherwise infamous
crime" without a "presentment or indictment by a Grand Jury."
2) The Davidians were "deprived of life, liberty, and property without due
process of law.
Sixth Amendment:
1) The accused were denied the right to "a speedy and public trial by an
impartial jury" when the FBI became judge, jury and executioner.
2) The BD's were never informed of the specific "nature anad cause of the
accusation."
Eighth Amendment:
1) The Davidians suffered cruel and unusual punishment when:
a> The FBI cut off the water to the ranch
b> The FBI used Psy-War (loudspeakers broacasting the screams of
dying rabbits and Tibetian Chants)
c> The FBI prevented family members from contacting their family
inside the ranch.
d> The FBI used tear-gas against them (especially the children)
e> The FBI burned the ranch down.
f> Thoes who escaped were imprisoned without bail without a hearing.
Anything I miss? | 5 |
5,132 |
Look up the facts first, post second. Bernadotte was assassinated
in September 1948 by Lehi under the orders of its three commanders
(one of whom was Yitzhak Shamir). There is no hard evidence of
complicity of the Israeli government despite some effort by the UN
and other organizations (US intelligence, Swedish government) to
find it. However a great fuss was made over the apparent lack of
zeal of the Israeli government to track down the killers. The Lehi
man who actually pulled the trigger later became a personal friend
of David Ben-Gurion. The best published account in English is A. Ilan,
Bernadotte in Palestine, 1948 (Macmillan, 1989).
| 5 |
952 | Wow! It's sad to see that the University of Virginia has begun
to produce such a virulent breed of Jew-haters and self-hating
Jews!
| 5 |
3,995 | >Clayton, babe, please define the word `molest`. Are you using
>a legal term or a proper dictionary term? Molest, as far as I
>can remember, means `to do damage to person(s)`. My mate,
>Mike, was lured into a woman's parlour when he was 14. Is
>that molestation? A number of my friends (straight) lost
>their virginity before that. Were they 'molested'? They told
>me that they thoroughly enjoyed the experience. I see no
>damage.
>
>Please stop pushing your objective morality on others. If you
>push, people won't fall over and say 'Ye gads, you're
>right!', they'll just push back.
>
>Have you signed up for that logic course yet?
Yep -- and the child that "Tree Frog Johnson" adbucted for 6 months reportedly
"enjoyed" her experiences as well. They trained her using food. As an FBI
agent reported (on his disciplinary action for beating up "Tree Frog") "when
you see a 2&1/2 year old baby cheerfully tell you she wants a peanut butter
sandwich and she'll suck your pee-pee, you lose control".
You are quite sick.
--
There are actually people that STILL believe Love Canal was some kind of
environmental disaster. Weird, eh? | 5 |
6,525 |
You can't think of any valid reason to own a gun that can't wait?
Either you have a very limited imagination or a strange definition of
the word "valid".
Here are a few reasons you might want a gun *right now*:
You're a Korean greengrocer in LA and a riot has just started in a
nearby neighborhood.
You've received a death threat.
Your SO has just broken your arm and you fear for your life if you
stay with him and he's said he'll kill you if you leave him.
A psychopath is breaking into people's houses in your neighborhood and
robbing and killing people inside.
A violent mugger is operating on the route you have to take to get to
your night job.
There are lots of dangers you might be in that won't wait for the
waiting period for you to purchase a gun.
| 5 |
1,805 | [snip]....
Excellent point, Mark. We should all remember that if Nixon
hadn't tried to cover up the misguided actions of some of his
subordinates in the Watergate burglary, the scandal would
never have brought down his presidency. So far, Klinton seems
to be stonewalling this the same way Tricky Dick did. His whole
case seems to be "we didn't do anything wrong". However, if
in the course of the investigation it turns out that the
gov't DID do something wrong, and he tried to cover it up,
then that's an impeachable crime, I believe...
Perhaps he is inadvertently cooking up his own scandal... Can you
say "Wacogate", little neighbor?... ;-)
| 5 |
4,851 |
We're having to associate with you against our will. This is fascism!
You don't have to associate with anyone against your will. Go live in a
cave. We won't miss you.
Drewcifer
| 5 |
1,994 | Everyone is complaining about the debacle in Waco. It is hard to
understand all this angst. What happend there is nothing less than
what we wanted to happen. Why all the sour grapes ?
BATF was looking for a propaganda event to counteract their impending
budget cuts ... the attendance of the press at the initial big
commando raid is proof. It would have been ever so easier to grab
Koresh and his central followers as they shopped in Waco. Alas, no
propaganda value there.
The FBI screwed-up big time, all the time. They should have never allowed
the situation to drag out like that. A quick second assault, before the
BDs could decide on a strategy, would have been the better plan.
The BDs themselves were the biggest screw-ups though. They imagined
that US law and US law-enforcement had no jurisdiction within their
little 'country'. WRONG ! They had no right whatsoever to fire on
the BATF, and if they mistook their identity initially, they should
have surrendered at once when they did realize who they were. If the
BDs had a problem with the warrants, they take it to court, just like
the rest of us. If they wanted full-auto weapons, they could have
obtained the proper permits, just like the rest of us would need to
do. What they may NOT do is decide for themselves what US law applies
to themselves and which does not. They get their chance like the rest
of us - at the voting booth.
If the BATF and FBI have become latter-day Gestapo, then they have
become that way because WE have desired them to be so. We get to
vote on laws, and on the lawmakers. By our choices over the years,
we have approved the creation and form of the BATF and FBI. When
the FBI was out chasing 'pinkos', the general public didn't seem
to mind a bit of extra-constitutional activity. When the BATF is
raiding militant black organizations, we don't mind the heavy hand.
When the FBI is dicking around with the rights of potheads, the
public doesn't mind. Suddenly, when we see a bit of ourselves in
the current 'enemy' choosen by these agencies, we get all bent out
of shape. SUPRISE ! You reap what you sow.
Waco was an encapsulation of the All-American experience - religious
fanaticism, militaristic thinking and overwhelming violence. Don't
blame it on 'them', the FBI and BATF. They were just acting within
the parameters we have set over the years. We made 'them'. We ARE 'them'. | 5 |
2,228 |
Yeah sure. Maybe thermal GUNSIGHTS on the armored vehicles. When
discussing military hardware and weapons, the media generally looks like
a ufology convention.
CS is merely the garden variety military teargas. As far as it being
"humane and harmless", I've seen teenage boys knock 200lb. drill
sergeants flat getting away from it....
What do you expect when idiots and criminals confirm paranoids in their
paranoia...?
| 5 |
5,629 |
Not when the power has been cut off for weeks on end. Any generators are
no doubt out of fuel, too. So all they would have is wood stoves and
kerosene lanters (maybe). It is alleged that the tanks pushing in the
walls knocked over the lanters, starting the fire. Remember, the FBI
had bugs which they even used (illegally) to eavesdrop on private
conversations with the lawyers. If a suicide order were given they
WOULD HAVE KNOWN IT IN TIME. If the Feds had been concerned they would
have had emergency equipment ready. Not an hour or so later, not
leaving the water THEY TURNED OFF, off. They could have turned it back
on. They just didn't wanna. Scores to settle...
| 5 |
6,935 | : Here's a hypothetical question... If Clayton said something like "all
: those niggers are really stupid." (Please don't be offended, I'm not racist
: but merely using an example of Clayton's malign logic). And then said he
: read a report that a lot of blacks in inner cities dropped out of school, I
: bet he wouldn't have your support. Yet he can claim that all homosexuals are
: dishonest, evil, lying child molesters without *PERSONALLY* having a single
: homosexual friend or acquaintance and you'll sit there and support him.
: God created a place for bigots. It's called Hell and Clayton is going
: to burn there for a long time. I pray for him to find in his heart the
: Christian values he espouses so that he can learn to love his gay brothers
: and sisters, because anyone with so much hatred in his soul coulld never
: be righteous.
There is a difference between supporting Claytons opinions and supporting
his right to speak. I want you to know that you cannot educate and/or
elevate ones understanding by calling him names. Clayton has an opinion
which in his mind is as valid as any opinion anyone else on the net has.
If you were to walk up to black person to talk about blacks in the inner
city and began the conversation with "Those niggers in th.......". You
would lose the attention of that black person by the time you spoke your
second word. All name calling and derisive remarks do is turn off the
audience you are trying to address. Clayton is guilty of that and as
such has distracted attention away from his message to bits and pieces
of his conversation. I don't understand why people want to repeat his
mistakes!
| 5 |
7,274 |
Did I say that a child who unintentionally shoots someone is not negligent?
NO. I hate to repeat myself Jim, but like I told Joe, I was not attempting
in any way to justify gun control. You're right, any death is serious.
THAT was my point to Joe who said that "anti-gunners" try to convinve
the country that accidental gun deaths related to children are a serious
problem. I guess I assumed everyone thought that it was a problem.
No, I don't want to discuss match control. I don't equate a book of matches
to a loaded 9 millimeter either. Don't confuse the issue. And please don't
say that tired old NRA line "Guns don't kill people, people kill people".
Sure, people can kill people without guns. But easy access to guns makes it
a lot more convenient. "Guns don't kill people, People with easy access to
guns kill people".
Jim, I'm just saying how it is. I'm not saying if that is a good thing
or not. From the police who I have talked with who run some of these gun
buyback programs, I get the impression that they really think they are
having an impact on the community. When I ask them if they have an evaluatory
component to the program, they say "well no..." So, in answer to your
question, no, false hope is not the intent. I think the intent is to
show folks that police are attempting to do something to curb interpersonal
gun violence whether its effective or not. Look, if you can't measure
the impact of these programs using some sort of pre-test and post-test
evaluation, what is the point? It must be symbolic in nature. The police are
essentially saying "look, if you have a gun lying around and you don't
want it, we'll give you $50 for it...because we care about the community".
If you, I and Joe could think of a way to measure the effectiveness or
ineffectiveness of these programs we could become rich and famous.
| 5 |
875 |
That was a reasonable insertion, so folks would know "Random" hadn't made an
error reposting your message. No one was flaming you for the typo.
I have heard such claims from disgruntled former members. Could be true, who
knows. No proof. And what does all this have to do with the BATF and FBI
actions?
No, you missed his.
This from someone who does not have a return address in his header:
----
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: ()
Subject: Re: CLINTON JOINS LIST OF GENOCIDAL SOCIALIST LEADERS
Organization: Trinity College, Hartford, CT.
Lines: 65
----
Whereas David Pope (random) did, so a reasonable newsreader could simply hit
reply to his comments, but not to yours. Get an education in Internet use, "my
man".
Jim
--
jmd@handheld.com | 5 |
5,474 |
You are not sticking to the original question. Imagine what it
would be like if you were human...impossible you say?
Is that not the crux of my argument? Why is this so difficult
for you to understand? Lack of intelligence?
Well, does it change the fact that during the period of 1914 to 1920,
the Armenian Government ordered, incited, assisted and participated
in the genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people because of race, religion
and national origin?
1) Armenians did slaughter the entire Muslim population of Van.[1,2,3,4,5]
2) Armenians did slaughter 42% of Muslim population of Bitlis.[1,2,3,4]
3) Armenians did slaughter 31% of Muslim population of Erzurum.[1,2,3,4]
4) Armenians did slaughter 26% of Muslim population of Diyarbakir.[1,2,3,4]
5) Armenians did slaughter 16% of Muslim population of Mamuretulaziz.[1,2,3,4]
6) Armenians did slaughter 15% of Muslim population of Sivas.[1,2,3,4]
7) Armenians did slaughter the entire Muslim population of the x-Soviet
Armenia.[1,2,3,4]
8)....
[1] McCarthy, J., "Muslims and Minorities, The Population of Ottoman
Anatolia and the End of the Empire," New York
University Press, New York, 1983, pp. 133-144.
[2] Karpat, K., "Ottoman Population," The University of Wisconsin Press,
1985.
[3] Hovannisian, R. G., "Armenia on the Road to Independence, 1918.
University of California Press (Berkeley and
Los Angeles), 1967, pp. 13, 37.
[4] Shaw, S. J., 'On Armenian collaboration with invading Russian armies
in 1914, "History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey
(Volume II: Reform, Revolution & Republic: The Rise of
Modern Turkey, 1808-1975)." (London, Cambridge University
Press 1977). pp. 315-316.
[5] "Gochnak" (Armenian newspaper published in the United States), May 24,
1915.
Source: Jorge Blanco Villalta, 'Ataturk,' TKK, 1979, pg. 234.
"They [Armenians] did not refrain from giving in to their racial
hatred and committing acts of cruelty and massacres against the
Moslem population, which were encouraged by the 'Tashnak' party,
mortal enemies of Turkey."
Serdar Argic | 5 |
7,288 |
("Andi Beyer") responds:
Talk about generalizations. Indeed, you DO sound quite immature.
What? The ACLU fighting against an anti-hate law? You mean that the
ACLU would support gay-bashing, racial discrimination and anti-semitic
violence? Thanks, Andi, for reminding us that the constitution
preserves our rights to such fun activities.
Probably, but Galileo happened to be right.
Jews are offended by the Holocaust deniers, too. The Revisionists,
who deny that history even happened, happen to be wrong.
| 5 |
6,711 |
We have three options with respect to the Constitution:
1. Abide by it.
2. Duly amend it.
3. Abandon those parts of which a majority disapproves.
Of course, since the whole point of the Constitution is to restrain the
will of the majority, and since even in unfettered democracy we have
nothing to fear from minorities, #3 amounts to abandoning the
Constitution altogether.
Which will it be?
---
Mark Pundurs | 5 |
4,697 |
Please take this thread out of "tx.politics.talk.politics.guns" which does
not exist. How about "tx.politics,talk.politics.guns" instead, eh?
--
Ed McGuire 1603 LBJ Freeway, Suite 780
Systems Administrator/ Dallas, Texas 75234
Member of Technical Staff 214/620-2100, FAX 214/484-8110
Intellection, Inc. <ed@intellection.com> | 5 |
7,412 |
In the abstract, what you're saying is true. But the facts happen to
agree with me, and disagree completely with you.
Listen, Pinkas. I'm going to count on the supposition that you think
through the opinions you have - something which is, by the way, against
my better judgment based on what I've seen from you to date. We are
agreed, aren't we, that dictionaries are *reference books* for the usage
of a given language, and in particular for the meanings of the words and
phrases which comprise that language? Now, you are using meanings
completely different from, indeed in some cases diametrically different
from, those given in the dictionary. As a reference book, a dictionary
contains those meanings in both past and (as much as it can) in current
use. That's also why they are updated so often. Now, if you are saying
things which you give different meanings than the dictionary does, and
using non-standard meanings about every word, what is your chance of
being taken at face value...?
Just about none. Just about no one will take you that way because the
words mean something different to them. It's quite clear to me from
the response this thread has been getting that that is exactly what is
happening. Ponder that.
What you did was ask a leading question. In English idiom, the phrase
"and guess why..." in the way you used it is a loaded question, with
only one answer expected.
I also take offense at being told I cannot read by someone who is
obviously having trouble with the subject himself. Mr. Pinkas, I am a
PhD candidate in my field. One does not get to PhD candidacy if one
cannot read.
Balderdash. You know this is false. I would be able to make the
abstraction if it bore any resemblance to the facts of the matter.
Yours did not. The analogy is utterly inapplicable.
I wouldn't be in the field I'm in -- astrophysics -- if I couldn't make
abstractions and speculate about the general grand scheme of things. I
also wouldn't be in education -- which I am (and my students give me
rather good reviews I'd add) -- if I couldn't draw such analogies.
The vast majority of Palestinians in Israeli prisons aren't tortured,
and their houses weren't blown up by the army. In fact, you've seen me
protesting such measures ON THIS NET before. Are you now trying to
intimate my agreement with them?
Do you know the meanings of the words you use or do you expect the
reader to read your mind? I can read just fine thank you. And I don't
need someone who is obviously having some troubles with a tongue which
isn't his native one telling me how to read the words in my own native
tongue. If it were Spanish, I'd ask you.
Yes, they are. As you well know.
Balderdash. See above. Once again, you have a lot of gall and
absolutely no right to lecture a native speaker of a language, who is
well educated in it, in a language which isn't your own native tongue
and with which you're obviously having problems.
Social life is one thing, legal status is another. Once again, this is
a leading question.
Final question: Is it possible to be both Jewish and Muslim? Jewish
and Christian? Your response will be enlightening.
| 5 |
5,730 |
What's this? Another idiot from McRCIM.McGill.EDU? Or are these all
the same dope using different accounts?
| 5 |
5,735 |
BUT... Suppose they had waited. The WORST outcome would have been the
one that actually did. But with the FBI/ATF just standing there watching
instead of being a part of the problem. It then would have been very clear
exactly who was at fault then, rather than the way it turned out.
AND, that would have been the WORST case. The best would have been, they
finally get hungry and come out. Possible/likely? Well, the alternative was
worse...
But what does it matter? Why say "I don't remember...." when it doesn't
make any difference? Altho the clintonettes have been pretty good at lying
when it wasn't necessary, they didn't do it this time. But it wasn't
necessary - claiming full responsibility is a totall meaningless gesture.
Symbolism over substance - again!
I've offered to take full responsibility. When do they pay me the big
bucks the AG is making...???? ;^)
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------- | 5 |
193 |
Let me see if I got this right.
Group of religious plinter schismatics erect a compound
and after at least fifty years of peaceful co-existance
with the outside community (having shoot outs only with
each other) - this makes them dangerous. Prior history
would seem to indicate they are only dangerous to themselves.
Last I knew there was no National Branch Davidian Party
blaming the debacle in VeitNam on Foreign Meddlers and
three-two beer, calling for the Rounding up of Meat Packers,
Growers and Slaughter Houses.
You want tough political choices - how about letting odd balls
be odd balls? (I know, this requires tolerance for
those that go into Government - but we all know people
who have no useful skills.)
ith the death of the children everybody is getting
real upset - what about the other 40 plus people?
I suppose that you consider children to be property
of the state with the family as custodians. (In the
States its the other way around - children are parental property.)
If what you consider a Corrupt Government demands that
you send you children into _their_ tender care - I
suppose that you will obey the State and turn you children
over to their care. Sorry - I am not as enamoured of the
womb to tomb cradle that is IngSoc.
Gotta go, the beach is calling.
chus
pyotr
| 5 |
3,358 |
Look nobody asked those countries about their UN forces
to be on the ground. They can take their forces which are
incomponent and ineffective at the first place. And let whoever are
willing to do the job what it takes. How anyone can defend this
stinking UN force on the ground who let the Bosnnian PM
yanked out from the UN vehicle and being shot by the Serbian
military? How anyone can defend this UN force who are just watching
the shelling on cities and towns everyday? How anyone can
defend and say those stinking UN forces being effective
when Bosnian had almost 14,000 children casualties between 5-14 age
groups? I think talking about the current UN forces to Bosnian
muslims is just an insult to their casualties.
I think Senator Biden said it all what has to be said on this issue.
Europe is a sad place to criticize human rights in anywhere in this
world. Like Biden said, they are the bigots when it comes to
cultural difference and minorty closer to their home.
Because they get rid of their minorities long long time
ago starting in 15th centuries. And they let Adolph
to take care of the rest in 20th Century. But he was much more
naughty than they expected because he dared to step many
toes. So, why spoil the good thing now when Serbs doing today what
they were thinking the same yesterday. | 5 |
4,914 | Subject: Re: PLEASE! SHOW UP IN WASHINGTON DC FOR BOSNIA (MAY 15th)
From: Nick Jovanovic, jovanovic-nick@yale.edu
Date: 12 May 1993 17:19:43 -0400
No, I'm not claiming 2,000,000 have been killed. We are in the middle of
the genocide process that Mr. Major has given yet another "green light"
to. Mladic seems to have most of what he wants, but Boban is just
getting his appetite whetted. Because Mladic refuses to allow
international observers to inspect mass-grave sites and killing centers
in places like Foca, Brcko, and Visegrad, it will be years before we have
an accurate account of the number killed.
In practical terms, it would be impossible to kill all 2,000,000. There
just isn't the kind of machinery of crematoria and gas chambers and
transportation lines that the Nazis took 8 YEARS to develop. And
remember, the Nazis killed minorities in the countries they occupied. To
actually kill 42% of the population requires extreme genocidal
organization.
But I do claim that the goal of the genocide is the systematic
annihilation of Bosnian Muslim culture, by killing as many as is
feasible, by rape, by torture, by the demolition of mosques, libraries,
and culture artificts, the burning and renaming of villages, the shelling
of civilians. So that there won't be any of the 2,000,000 or so Muslims
whose lives have not been shattered by the genocide, though they still
may be alive.
And Mr. Major not only finds this acceptable, he helps it along by making
sure that the victims don't have arms to defend themselves.
Mike. | 5 |
6,502 |
Although I don't want to muddy the waters unnecessarily I disagree. Any
discrimination based on religion is not and cannot be racist unless the
sole qualification for religious membership is racial. This is not the
case for Israel although it might get a little closer than, say, Islam.
This of course raises the vexed question of Church AntiSemitism. Jews
have been heavily discriminated against on the grounds of religion in
many Christian countries. If we take Russia as an example Jews were
seriously persecuted but that persecution in the eyes of the Church
and State stopped at the baptismal font. Officially anyway. If a Jew
converted there were no legal barriers in his way (that I know of anyway.)
Peter the Great's Interior Minister came from such a convert background.
Can we then claim that the Russian Orthodox did not teach AntiSemitism
and was not AntiSemitic? Similarly for the Roman Catholic Church? I
suspect so as this is not a racial 'taint' but one based on belief
and AS is after all a form of racism. Well maybe not. What is
AntiSemitism then if not something racially based? I wonder if Hitler
killed converts of 'pure' German blood. Does anyone know one way or
the other?
Joseph Askew
| 5 |
5,665 | THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
______________________________________________________________
For Immediate Release April 20, 1993
REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT
DURING PRESENTATION OF TEACHER OF THE YEAR AWARD
The Rose Garden
1:25 P.M. EDT
THE PRESIDENT: Good afternoon. Please be seated. I
want to say, first, how delighted I am to be here with Secretary
Riley and with Senator Graham. The three of us served as governors
together during the 1980s when we worked constantly on strategies to
improve our schools, when we led often difficult and long efforts to
upgrade the standards in American education and to improve the
quality of instruction our children were receiving.
There were no two governors whom I admired more during
that period than the two who now stand on this stage with the Teacher
of the Year. And I think both of them would join me in saying that,
after all the testimony has been heard and all the bills have been
passed and the funds have been raised and allocated, it all comes
down to what happens between the teacher and the students in the
classroom.
That's why today's ceremony honoring the National
Teacher of the Year is so important. Tracey Leon Bailey is one
recognition all across our country for highly advanced and innovative
science programs. He's developed and introduced into Florida's
classrooms cutting-edge programs in molecular biology and DNA
fingerprinting -- subjects usually taught only in college and, I
might add, probably only dimly understood here in the Nation's
Capital. (Laughter.)
Within three years of being hired by a satellite high
school, Mr. Bailey's institution had one of the strongest science
programs in the entire state of Florida, and it won numerous national
and international awards. These advanced programs aren't just for a
favored few. Tracey Bailey has inspired all kinds of students,
including those previously known as low-achieving or at-risk to reach
for excellence and to attain it. This is what our students need and
what our country needs.
Today, we know that a good future with high wages and
rich opportunities rests on the foundation of quality education for a
lifetime. The basics aren't enough anymore. All our kids need
competence in math and science and advanced problem-solving. That's
why Tracey Bailey's accomplishments are so important and why I am so
pleased and proud to participate in recognizing and honoring these
accomplishments.
Tracey, you represent the best in the United States.
I'm glad to recognize you today and to formally present you with this
Apple Award as the Teacher of the Year for 1993. (Applause.)
MR. BAILEY: Thank you, Mr. President. It is indeed a
great honor and a tremendous responsibility to represent the nation's
2.5 million teachers. And we appreciate the support that you have
shown for education, and we're looking forward to working with you to
help redesign and improve our nation's schools.
We know that the quality of our children's education
will directly impact the future of our economic and social landscape
in the years to come. And we thank you so much for your continued
support and commitment to our children's education. Thank you again.
(Applause.)
THE PRESIDENT: In closing, I would like to also welcome
the education leaders in Florida who are here, those representing the
national education groups who have also come. I'd like to recognize
Tracey's congressman, Representative Jim Bacchus in the back, himself
a great advocate of education. And I'd like to remind all of you
that the ultimate purpose of the National Teacher of the Year Award
is to find a way for the rest of us to express our appreciation to
people all across this country who give their lives to our children,
all of the teachers of this country who get up every day and do their
best to try to advance the cause of learning for all the children of
America. They are, in so many ways, our most important public
servants.
Thank you very much. (Applause.) | 5 |
3,301 | Okay, here is the result of my efforts. I'm just getting started with this
type of activity, so please set your flame-thowers on low.
Comments, corrections, suggestions, welcomed.
****************************************************************************
Editor,
I would like to ask you and your readers a few questions that are related to
the "right to keep and bear arms", and to a greater degree, the many other
"rights" that we take for granted on a daily basis.
1. You're sleeping at night, when you hear someone in your house. You
call the police. How will you defend yourself, should the need arise, while
you are waiting for the police to arive?
2. You are driving your family home when your car breaks down. A "good
samaritan" stops to "help", when you find you and your family at gun-point or
knife-point. How will you defend yourself? And your Family?
3. You are a woman walking alone to your car or home. A man appears
suddenly with the intent to rape you. How will you defend yourself? Are you
strong enough to fight off your attacker? Are you willing to let this man rape
you in order to survive the attack?
If the House and Senate have their way, we will soon not have the right to keep
and bear arms, as provided by the Second Amendment to the Constitution. A gun
may not be the answer to each and every dangerous situation, but are you going
to let the politicians decide what sort of force or weapon you may use to
defend yourself and your family?
Many times a situation may be diffused by just brandishing your handgun. If
certain members of the House and Senate have their way, .25, .32, and 9mm
ammunition will be banned for sale to anyone other than the military and law
enforcement departments. Very soon, you may not be able to purchase ammunition
for use in your handgun.
There is already a 15 day waiting period in California. Do you really feel
that any law abiding citizen should be required to wait this amount of time for
the purchase of a handgun when his life or family members have been threatened?
Our local police do an excellent job, but they can not be there all the time,
or in a moments notice. You should have the right to protect yourself while
waiting for help to arrive.
There is currently legislation circulating in Washington that would prohibit
the sale of certain types of ammuntion, handguns, rifles, and shot-guns. One
elected official even wants to repeal the Second Amendment!
I want to ask the readers of this paper what they would do if their elected
officials decided that they should only belong to a "certain church", or go to
church on a "partiular day"? What if you were told that you could only read
certain books? Write about certain subjects? What if you no longer had the
right to a jury of your peers? How about the right to assemble in a peaceful
manner? | 5 |
3,129 | ......
When did Koresh go on a rampage?
What I saw was an unnecessary, unprovoked massive attack on Feb. 28th.
Probably even an illegal action by ATF, certainly way out of proportion
to anything reasonable.
And yet, according to a pole taken yesterday, 95% of the people poled
believe the government forces acted appropriately. They don`t believe
Reno or the President have any guilt in ordering/allowing the attack.
I suppose they also believed things like:
"I would present a 5-year plan to balance the budget."
"We don`t need to lead with a tax increase...."
"It starts with a middle-class tax cut..."
"I`ll have the bills ready the day after I am inaugurated and we`ll
have a 100 day period....It will be the most productive in modern history."
"I will ask congress for a line item veto.."
"I will lift the social security earnings test.."
I personally prefer to disbelieve the government until they prove themselves
right, rather than the other way around. That way I have a better than
50% chance of being right about my first guess!
Read the constitution sometime, it is supposed to protect the citizens
and their rights. I am sick of the abuse of government power. | 5 |
3,909 |
One of the things going for the DX2-66 (over the 50) is that it's
clock speed complies with the VESA local bus spec.
Lance Hartmann (lance%hartmann.austin.ibm.com@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com)
Yes, that IS a '%' (percent sign) in my network address. | 2 |
6,973 |
JUst use xloadimage instead (or xli). | 2 |
6,013 | {deletions}
Yes, this is a valid concern IMHO. With the directly attached fan units I've
seen, it looks like if the fan were to stop the chip cooling would be
a good bit worse than no heat sink at all. In other words, if the fan stops
the unit turns into an insulator and the chip might get hot enough to
suffer permanent damage, not just stop working temporarily.
My Zeos 486DX2/66 (tower case) has a passive heat sink on the cpu, and it's
located so the front fan, which sucks air into the case, blows right on the
heat sink. If that fan stops the heat sink is still cooled by convection air
flow so should not see too dramatic a temperature rise. Essentially the
arrangement you're talking about and a good idea IMHO.
| 2 |
2,191 |
I'm also interested in such a program. But most of all I'd like to know
wich program is able to convert GIF or PCX to DXF !!! When I have this
program, I can scan pictures and frase (or something like that !) them.
This will be beyond the limit !!! | 2 |
1,462 |
Or just use the URT tool: rastorle.
Yes, both it and the newer xli can. | 2 |
1,980 | Are there any Off-Line mail readers for the net-news? In qwk format? It
would be really helpfull to be able to download the net news from a Vax or
mainframe and read it off-line.....
Adam Hodge | 2 |
2,898 | We are adding a Motif wrapper to a family of data display programs.
These programs are each written as a 'main loop' with these steps:
- use semop to check a semaphore and if true access new data
otherwise block (new data comes quite often)
- use msgop to check for messages and if true read them
otherwise continue (messages are user commands and not often)
- update the display according to latest data and messages.
We typically have several of these running in windows,
plus a data producer serving some device and setting the flag.
Everyone blocking makes sure the device server gets to run.
Xt and Xm also have a 'main loop' model that we must fit into.
O'Reilly Vol IV Ch 9 discusses adding a file-watcher and also
how to add workprocs that are run during idle time.
We can 'open-up' our existing main loop and call it as a workproc.
The problem is our blocking until new data is no longer appropriate.
Neither is letting the program free-run because others are hurt.
The unix select call lets you block until any of several i/o are ready.
We want that for the X main loop except not file i/o.
Any suggestions or examples most welcome!
We run SGI Personal Iris and Indigo systems. | 2 |
2,036 |
Oh no! Oh no! They've taken over comp.windows.misc and now THEY'RE
COMING FOR US!
--berry
| 2 |
215 | HELP!
I am trying to find software that will allow COM port redirection under
Windows for Workgroups. Can anyone out there make a suggestion or reccommend
something. I would really hate to have to write some driver for the serial
port that would support the network, but that is my next step.
Thanks in advance. | 2 |
1,236 | Stupid question from a new IBM PC user:
I'm going to be selling my Mac and getting a Gateway 2000.
What is the difference between IDE HD and SCSI HD?
The GW 486DX-33V comes with a 250MB Western Digital IDE drive.
I asked how much more for the Seagate 500MB SCSI drive.
The guy asked me "Why are you going with SCSI?". I was lost for an answer.
I just said "I know Seagate better as a company, from a satisfaction point
of view".
Are SCSI drives faster than IDE? I'm not buying my GW for another 4 months
or so, but this is a question that has bugged me for a while. | 2 |
6,916 |
<clip clip>
Running MS-DOS or a derivative OS, obviously. Please take note that the
following is not what exactly happens, but a slightly simplified
explanation.
Technically, the IRQ line is only a means for the device (printer
adapter, SoundBlaster, modem, hard disk, ...) to signal the CPU that
"Something's happening here, please take note." How the CPU is
programmed to handle this signal is usually up to the operating system.
In MS-DOS, the "interrupt vector" is used to store the address of the
function that handles each interrupt.
Now, basic DOS doesn't care whether the printer reports that it's ready
to print some more stuff or not - it simply ignores the interrupt. When
DOS prints, it looks at the LPT buffer. If there's a character there,
wait a while and check again. If there's not, copy a new character to
the LPT port. Since the IRQ 7 is ignored as a printer interrupt, it's
free for use for any other adapters - in this case, the SB.
With any multitasking or otherwise advanced OS, this kind of printing
approach just doesn't work (or more precisely, it wastes a lot of CPU
cycles.) Hence, you can't "share" the IRQ 7 with LPT1 and SB if you're
running Unix or OS/2 or whatnot.
Another issue with the SB is that only the digitized sound uses
interrupts. When the SB plays plain music, the CPU simply tells it what
to play until told otherwise. With digitized sound the interrupt is
required to notify the CPU when the output ends and new data is
needed.
You can, however, hook two (or more) COM ports to one interrupt, but use
them only one at a time. This is because the interrupt handling routine
is same for both ports, and it can see from which port the data came
from. This, of course, applies for some other devices (like LPT) as well.
Remember, this was greatly simplified in parts, but I think gives the
general picture correctly enough.
Cheers,
| 2 |
1,122 | There is a good report list on most all of the good monitors in this
months issue of Computer Shoppers magazine, with their phone munbers
and all (April issue) $2.99....Sam | 2 |
686 |
You need to run FDISK. | 2 |
3,426 |
Make sure that the hard disk you want to boot from is set as active (using the
FDISK program that comes with DOS).
| 2 |
5,043 | hi,
just a quick question reguarding pc tape backup. I own a 386 dos box
and have an Archive VP402 interface card connected to a QIC-02 tape
drive. Now the simple question is, does anybody in netland know were I
can get some software for msdos (ver 5.0) to run this setup, freeware
or shareware preferred .
Thanks in advance,
Darryl | 2 |
4,005 | What's the difference between a 16550 UART and a 16550A UART? Thanks!
| 2 |
1,725 | --> A humble response to a letter by G. Scott Braley written 04-21-93 20:43.
GSB> a 286 upgrade would probably cost about $50, 386 about $150 or so.
GSB> Coprocessors or accelerator cards would cost at least that much.
'Tis true! I just saw an add for 286/20 motherboards for $80. I have seen
whole 286/12 systems, complete with case, power supply, keyboard, floppy,
and mono card/monitor going for $250.
... "He was a man, all and all, I shall not look upon his like again."
--- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10
| 2 |
5,201 |
For the past week or so I've been trying to install a QIC-36 tape drive
and an everex 8bit full size controller in my 486dx50 EISA system with no
luck. I end up getting an error (miscompare) during the streaming read
part of the test. I am pretty certain that the port setting, irq & dma are
set properly since the tape responds properly to all commands, rewind,
retension, write and erase, I also booted the system clean and still the
same proble so I also tend to eliminate any memory conflicts. It has been
suggested that my bus speed is too fast and that I need to slow it down.
My system has an AMI BIOS and I don't have the advanced chip setting
option that I have seen on other systems so I cant do this. Am I going to
have to accept that this set up won't work? or can anyone suggest a work
around? I will be glad to hear your advice/suggestions.
Tony
| 2 |
29 |
I don't know about Canada, but I have heard from people
doing translation work in Papua New Quinea, that they
like them and have had good response on service.
Another is seriously considering buying one.
| 2 |
1,498 | What I'd like to see is the more generic N-dimensional widget set.
I realize, that there wouldn't be a whole shitload of people
who'd want more than 3, but why stop?
All I need is a Widget with up to N viewports showing me different
3-D or 2-D slices of my stuff.
alter,
pat
| 2 |
7,295 |
He's right ya know. I've helped to install Dos 6 on about 4 computers now,
mine included. On one, he bought the Stacker to Doublespace converter,
and it worked fine (rather, he sent in the coupon for the converter).
In other cases, I've run the doublespace installation without a problem
when compressing a new drive, compressing free space, or whatever else.
Seems to work for me.
Well, I ran the normal SETUP thing and it worked fine for whatever that's
worth.
Couldn't agree more. On my 486-50 I don't miss the speed. It's still
faster than a normal disk read would be. As for the less compression,
I've sacrificed that in favor of the convenience of having the dblspace.bin
load before anything else. With Stacker, any changes to your config.sys
or autoexec.bat meant rebooting twice so it could update those.
Personally, I'm waiting for Stacker 4.0 to come out and implement those
hooks and stuff. Plus, the DEFRAG that comes with DOS is okay, but I
much prefer COMPRESS from PC-TOOLS for sheer bells and whistles. Plus,
defrag is sooooo sloooow on a dblspace drive.
Ditto. | 2 |
2,141 | *** On 04-21-93 04:30, Michael Shapiro had the unmitigated gall to say this:
MS> The DOS system date has a twenty-four hour clock and a rollover bit.
MS> When the system crosses midnight, the rollover bit is turned on.
MS> Subsequent reads of the time add one. There's no change possible
MS> (This information was current up through DOS 3.3. I've not checked to
MS> see whether it applies to later versions.)
Just a small tidbit: with the advent of DOS 3.3 and later versions, MS added
a small "feature" to the DOS time function. If a program sets the DOS clock
via DOS system services, then DOS will set the BIOS clock to the same value.
This breaks the isolation between the two clocks that used to ensure that
errors in the DOS clock did not bleed over into the BIOS clock.
Sometimes the Microsoft people just don't think! :)
... Fact: Mickey Mouse wears a Al Gore wristwatch.
--- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10
| 2 |
4,692 | WinFax Pro provides you with OCR. It is the OCR from OmniPage.
Although it is not as customizable it does the job and is auto
matic (if you want) and much cheaper than the same package
(Omni Page Professional = $700) sold separatly. | 2 |
6,206 | Looking for ORGANIZER program for Windows.
Currently have Lotus Organizer, not bad, but looking for better.
Should have a calender / scheduler.
Should have a to do list.
Nice additions : Address / Phone Book
Diary
Please, any suggestions? Shareware/Public/or Copyrighted...
Please EMAIL sthong@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
--
-------------------------------------------
Steven Hong
Email Address : sthong@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
University of Pennsylvania
Engineering Class of 1996 | 2 |
6,999 | From article <ardie.313.736188058@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, by ardie@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Ardie Mack):
EMM386 is NOT reqired to load the DOS kernal high (or else you couldn't
do it on a 286). In a mail message I recommended that he remove it
since he only runs ProcomPlus frequently in DOS, and I suspect
EMM386 will slow down windows. | 2 |
6,089 | 2 | |
4,082 | Alas, we too will have to stop using it.
Brian | 2 |
5,424 |
I've got a 386DX-40, 4MB and I'm using Windows 3.1. Sometimes I wondered why
Windows worked endlessly on my HD when I was doing nothing (execpt having lunch
or something like that). Then I turned this virtual memory swapfile off, and
Windows became quite faster, but now having less memory free. And so I'm still
wondering, why windows is reading everything from virtual memory when the
convertional is sufficient? Any common-sense-explanation is really appreciated.
| 2 |
4,862 | Recently we have found TIFF manipulation packages which do not recognize
TIFF files output by xv. This is due to a missing XRESOLUTION and YRESOLUTION
tag which apparently is required (or at least believed to be required) for
valid TIFF. I have checked both xv 2.x and xv 3.x and neither of these
do indeed copy these tags.
Has anyone out there hacked in the fixes for xv to support these tags?
I have been told that I could find some code in tiff/tools/tiffcp.c, but
that directory is one of many of the tiff group not distributed with xv. I
hope to obtain the original tiff src and look at it, but would prefer
to find code already known to work in xv. | 2 |
1,294 | My 486DX2-50 has 8MB of 70ns RAM and a Trident SVGA card. Sometimes I feel it
runs very slowly, especially when running Windows.
I'm planning to buy an ATI Graphic Ultra + next semester. Is that all I need
to get the problem solved? Is 70ns RAM chips too slow for my machine? Do faster
RAM chips make a big difference?
I use CAD software on my computer as well. Do those up-grades good enough to
speed it up a lot? Any one experienced the difference between ISA bus and VL bus(both with a graphic accelerator)?
(A SCSI controller may not be appropriate, since I may have to replace my hard
disks as well. However, sometimes I do have huge files on my computer. Does
it really worth to use a SCSI interface? I can't spend too much on it)
t he )
Any help will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Dennis
dpang@uafhp.uark.edu
p.s. Man! I hate the stupid text editor. Is there any way I can type my article
in a DOS word-processor and load the file into usenet? | 2 |
2,041 | Word 2.0c doesn't show the period-centred character to indicate
spaces if I use the TTFonts from CorelDraw. Our editors need to
be able to see how many spaces are in text but the character
displayed is a large hollow box. They overlap each other and
characters on each side, which is useless.
I believe the character used by W4W is the period-centred (0183).
This character shows up with the windows Charmap display as the
hollow box which tends to confirm this. I have edited the corel
font with Fontmonger and changing the font graphics for the 0183
character makes no difference to the font output in Charmap or W4W.
Altering the paragraph (0182) or cedilla (0184) does alter their font
graphics displayed however!!
Is the W4W character used to indicate spaces the period-centred character?
Has anyone been able to get this character displayed from a CorelDraw TTF?
| 2 |
5,890 |
Please don't respond anymore, I have enough beta testers now. Thank you.
--
Dipl.-Inform. Rainer Klute I R B : immer richtig beraten
Univ. Dortmund, IRB
Postfach 500500 |)|/ Tel.: +49 231 755-4663
D-W4600 Dortmund 50 |\|\ Fax : +49 231 755-2386 | 2 |
3,941 | Brandon Wise
bwise@nyx.cs.du.edu
| 2 |
1,405 | }
}
} |"> It is interesting to look at the change(s) of mind that John has had.
} |"
} |"Very interested indeed! This is against this kind of "changes" that the GNU
} |"COPYLEFT is protecting us.
} |"
} |"Anyway, at SIMULOG, we will abandon xv. We were using it mostly for slide-
} |"shows because of its "-loop" feature that display does not have (display
} |"from the *wonderful* ImageMagick package! :-D), but I think I will implement
} |"it myself (even a shell-script should do the job) and forget xv.
We too will have to stop using it. Shame really - it was rather nice.
Still, I have no objection to the owner claiming money for legit.
work he's put in. We'll just go back to the older versions of Xv. | 2 |
5,903 | Here is the latest on relocating your help files to a server.
The WinHelp() function, as I am told by MS, does search your path so
relocating MS windows helpfiles won't be a problem as long as you include
the path to where you move them to, however, if an application has
hardcoded the path into their code so that when WinHelp is invoked it
searches the given path (i.e. WinHelp(hwnd, c:\amipro) for example) then
WinHelp does not search your path and instead looks only to that directory
where you have installed your software.
I tested this out on a variety of software packages. I moved all my
helpfiles to the drive z:\ and included this in the path statement.
Here is the results for different software packages:
Norton Desktop Found Helpfiles
Windows V3.1 for WorkGroups Found Helpfiles
Windows V3.1 Found Helpfiles
MS Powerpoint V3.0 Found Helpfiles
MS Word Found Helpfiles
MS Excel V4.0a Did Not Find Helpfiles (strange)
MS Foxpro V2.5 for Windows Found Helpfiles
Lotus Amipro V3.0 Did Not Find Helpfiles
Procomm Plus for Windows Did Not Find Helpfiles
I guess this is better than nothing but it would make sense to be able to
specify a global path for helpfiles.
If anyone has any comments or If I can help anyone or if I left something
out please let me know.
lhighley@gozer.idbsu.edu
thanks for the help from everyone especially jagrant@emr1.emr.ca | 2 |
2,828 | I think the main reason is that in the good old hacker days of the young(er)
Gates' and Jobs' of the world, the computer was not as widespread a
phenomenom as it is now. With the increased popularity of the PC
come a plethora of mundane business uses which required more practical
minded and narrower-focused programmers.
Why be a hacker when you can get a good job programming databases or
programs for accountants? Basically, the yuppies caught up and
disciplined the hackers, and molded them in their own image.
| 2 |
4,406 |
Lotus Organizer!!! Quick, cheap, pretty! And has all of those features
you want ...
You might look at one of the shell alternatives provided by third
parties. Norton Desktop for Windows, for instance.
Personally, I *like* File Manager, which comes with Windows. It's much
faster than NDW's, and the File Manager that's part of Windows for
Workgroups even has a decent button bar.
That first you can do with File Manager, but the others you'll need
to look at NDW or PC Tools for Windows, etc.
I haven't yet seen a decent freeware or even shareware shell. But
it may be just me. | 2 |
908 | I recently installed dos 5.0 on a few machines, and the users
claim that when they use the mouse often, the screen will blank, and
the machine will lock up.
There are no viruses, they are not running any TSR's.
(the mouse is a logitec 2 button)
Anybody got any ideas?
thanks | 2 |
5,610 | HELLO,
I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH MY WINDOW 3.1 PROGRAM
SOMETIMES WHEN I SAVE SETTINGS OF PROGRAM MANAGER THE SYSTEM CORRUPT ONE OR MORE
*.GRP FILES AND PROGMAN.EXE CAN'T OPEN IT ON NEXT START.
THANKS FOR ANY ANSWER.
CHROBERT
| 2 |
7,176 | What's the best way to archive GIF's? I zip them and they only shrink 1%. I
have most compression programs except stacker which I heard was good for GIF's.
Thanx
-Brando | 2 |
3,214 | Haven't we wasted enough bandwidth on this silly discussion already!!
[Please no flames -- let sanity prevail] | 2 |
7,152 | Krzysztof Muchorowski was asking about GIF-to-TGA conversion so that he
could use DTA 1.5 to convert the TGA files to FLI animation files. | 2 |
1,360 | Recently, Windows has starting giving me the error "Sound Blaster Pro:
Requires newer version of Windows 3.1." It has worked correctly for a long
time, and don't know what the problem could be. Thanks!
-- | 2 |
2,321 | Has anyone built Xkernel for 3/80's? It works great on our 3/50s, and I
would just as soon kiss the entire Sun 3 architeture goodbye (and reclaim
a bunch of disk space). Email me direct, I'll post a summary.
| 2 |
4,746 | There has been a long running discussion over changing the Startup
logo for Windows for a few weeks here. While all the COPY methods are
great & haven't seen any mention of a program that will do it for
you.....
Well... I found one on CICA called winlogo (Can't remember where
unfortuantely), and it seems to work real well... even comes with a
couple example .RLE files.
What I'd really like though is a way to create .RLE files myself,
specifically the RLE4 format mentioned in the winlogo readme file. Can
anyone point me in the direction of such a beast with a REAL directory
path ?? All the ones I've seen mentioned didn't pan out..... | 2 |
4,180 | Should come with visual basic. New version is vbrun200.dll.
Thx Dave L
| 2 |
2,834 | unsubscribe
| 2 |
4,502 | I solved my problem. I still do not understand why it happens ths
way; perhaps some of you C++ gurus can explain this to all of us!
For some reason when I define the following functins in the class
definition (in the .h file) the compiler thinks some pure virtual
functions are not defined. When I placed these two in a separate
source file and compiled them, the problem went away. Any ideas what
happen? Are the functions that are defined in the class construct all
inline ? Is this the problem?
virtual int isEqual (const Object _FAR &obj) const
{ return this == &(HashEntry&) obj; }
virtual void printOn( Rostream os) const
{
os << "[ HWindow is " << (void _FAR *) hWindow << " ]\n";
}
-- | 2 |
1,802 | 2 | |
2,337 |
In X10, the drawing attributes were bundled into drawing
requests; that is, the server's drawing model was stateless.
This caused problems with performance and network traffic,
so the X11 redesign included the graphic context to codify
the drawing state. Most application designers who want to
draw things in several different colors create a GC for
each color during initialization, then pass the GC id in
each drawing request. | 2 |
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