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I would say only to the extent that the Roman Catholic Church neither approves nor disapproves of capital punishment, as confirmed in the recent catechism, though there are many RCs who were rather surprised and upset that capital punishment was not explicitly condemned. For myself, as a Catholic, I see my own opposit...
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I recently watched a an episode of "The Old West" a TV show on the Discovery Channel (or perhaps the A&E Network), the one hosted by Kenny Rogers. This episode was all about the Mormons and how they settled Utah, etc. A large portion of the broadcast was about the "Mountain Meadows Massacre". The program very speci...
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Dishonest money dwindles away, but he who gathers money little by little makes it grow. Proverbs 13:11
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: |> Let me begin by saying I think this is the world's first religion to use : |> the net as its major recruitment medium. Therefore, even if this : |> religion does not take off, its founding members will be very important : |> historically as this method of soliciting membership will eventually become : |> common....
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Perhaps one other thing I should have added is that Jeremiah's prophesies about the coming destruction of Jerusalem would have been understood by the people of that time to be a full frontal assault on their understanding of their relationship with the Lord. Today the if the general populace hears "prophesies" like ...
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alt.religion.spam?
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Before you finalize your file in the FAQs (or after), you might want to correct the typo in the following: It seems one or the other end of the rating scale should be identified with "homosexual". As a personal note, I guess I differ with you on the question of work entering human life as a result of sin. Bef...
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I found this on the net at my college. It sounds pretty good to me. What do you folks think? >This are the tenets of Stan as handed down and set within the Holy Book >of Stan. > >1: Thou shalt not spill thine drinks or waste thine food, for all that >is is sacred, and to waste is the denizen ...
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My girlfriend is a smoker. She has been addicted to it for quite some time. She has been tried a couple of times, but then always get back to it. Her background is non-Christian, but she's interested in Christianity. I'm a Christian and non-smoker. I would like to collect any personal stories from Christians who mana...
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[I'm going to cut "Rex"'s ramblings down a bit.] [...] Rex, there are literally hundreds of thousands of 32nd degree Masons in this country, and thousands of 33rds. If nasty stuff was really going on, don't you think you'd have more than a couple of disgruntled members "exposing" it? Heck, if what you say is true,...
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I'd like to field this one, if I may. Although I am a believer in and follower of Christ, my experiences with religion haven't been all that positive. In fact, there was one point in my life when, for about three days, I simply _couldn't_ believe in the existence of God. Anyway, when I look back upon the troubles I...
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I have some articles available on the Church and gay people, from a pro-gay viewpoint, which might interest some of the people participating in this thread. Please email me if you would like to have me send them to you (warning, about 70k worth of material. Make sure you have mailbox and/or disk space available.) Th...
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#In article <1r0fpv$p11@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> # #(Deletion) #># Point: Morals are, in essence, personal opinions. Usually #>#(ideally) well-founded, motivated such, but nonetheless personal. The #>#fact that a real large lot of people agree on some moral question, #>#sometimes even for the same reason, does not m...
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My feeling on baptism is this: parents baptize their baby so that the baby has the sanctifying grace of baptism (and thus removal of original sin) on its soul in the event of an unexpected death. That is, the parents speak on behalf of the child which is too young to speak on its own. This should not surp...
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Hello everyone. I just wanted to let everyone know that I have just been selected as part of the Reduction In Force here at Amdahl. For all that are currently in a dialog with me, or are waiting letters from me, I have saved your letters on floppy and will continue when I get back on the net from another account in the...
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I think we should just let Bhagwans be Bhagwans.
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That's funny, I thought you were making a statement about what people think. In fact, I see it quoted up there.
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Gaining entry into heaven cannot be done without first being cleansed by the blood of Jesus. Sin cannot dwell in heaven. It is against the natural laws of God. Being converted to christianity means being baptized by the Holy Spirit. You cannot get to heaven by good works only. Because of the union with the ...
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You are quite confident that essences do not exist. How do propose to define beings? Can a thing can be *one* without definition? Can a being have a definition and know essence? What about properties? Do beings have properties? Does God have properties? Does numbers exist in reality as abstract entities or do w...
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Paul Fortmann submitted a sermon by Peter Hammond on PRAYING FOR JUSTICE that spoke of the positive value of the Imprecatory (Cursing) Psalms. In this connection, I recommend to the membership the book REFLECTIONS ON THE PSALMS, by C S Lewis, with special reference to the chapter on "Cursing in the Psalms."
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but whoever listens to me will live in safety and be at ease, without fear of harm." Proverbs 1:33
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To big for a .sig? No way! Keith " Home of the billdboard .sig files " Ryan =) --- Private note to Jennifer Fakult. "This post may contain one or more of the following: sarcasm, cycnicism, irony, or humor. Please be aware of this possibility and do not allow yourself to be ...
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: : So in conclusion it can be shown that there is essentially no : : logical argument which clearly differentiates a "cult" from a : : "religion". I challenge anyone to produce a distinction which : : is clear and can't be easily knocked down. : How about this one: a religion is a cult which has stood the test : o...
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I know that "must" is a verb in some languages. I'm complaining about the assertion containing the word must.
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[reply to tgk@cs.toronto.edu (Todd Kelley)] Agreed. It is hard for me to understand, but quite a few professional scientists and philosophers are theists. But also intolerance and superstition. I'm not sure that in the balance it is not detrimental. Sure would!
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[a lot of stuff deleted -- i'm focusing on just one point] i'm a little confused about the difference between this "weak atheism", as you put it, and agnosticism. is agnosticism not believing or necessarily disbelieving in anything, or what is it? i used to be agnostic (by this definition) -- but if weak atheism in...
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Yes, as a philosophy weak atheism is worthless. This is true in exactly the same sense that as a philosophy Christians' disbelief in Zeus is worthless. Atheists construct their personal philosophies from many different sources, building non-god-based ideas in the same way as Christians build non-Zeus-based ideas of ...
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Note the difference here. One is saying, if *Christ* disagrees with a Christian being gay, *Christ* can change that. The other is saying, if *I* think being gay is wrong, that a Christian cannot be gay, *I* need to tell them to change. As Lois said, and as before her Paul wrote to the believers in Rome, WHO ARE ...
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Ouch. I guess I didn't. Sorry. But my comment was just more 'irony' into the fire. Cheers, Kent
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#|> #|> #And in that area, what you care about is whether someone is sceptical, #|> #critical and autonomous on the one hand, or gullible, excitable and #|> #easily led on the other. #|> #|> Indeed I may. And one may be an atheist and also be gullible, excitable #|> and easily led. #|> #|> #I would say that a tenden...
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WOW! Are you serious! So not everyone who calls themself a Christian is a Christian? WOW! That does make things a bit more complicated doesn't it? That seems like very good advice, given the above revelation. Like for example Matthew 5:14-19 right? Um, where did Jesus say that he wanted people to worship him?
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Although simplistic I have always liked the fact that "a Christian is one who not only believes in God, but believes God." After all the name was first given externally to identify those who "preached Christ and Him crucified" to pay the price of their rebeliion and shortcomings before God. God said this was His son ...
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> Mary at that time appeared to a girl named Bernadette at > Lourdes. She referred to herself as the Immaculate Conception. > Since a nine year old would have no way of knowing about the > doctrine, the apparition was deemed to be true and it sealed > the case for the doctrine. Bernadette was 14 years old when ...
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::DATE: Sun, 25 Apr 1993 10:13:30 GMT ::FROM: Fred Rice <darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au: :: :: ::The Qur'an talks about those who take their lusts and worldly desires for ::their "god". :: ::I think this probably encompasses most atheists. :: :: Fred Rice :: darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au : :As well as all the Musl...
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Well I agree with you in the sense that they have no "moral" right to inflict these rules, but there is one thing I might add: at the very least, almost everybody wants to avoid pain, and if that means sacrificing some stuff for a herd morality, then so be it. Right, and since they grew up and learned around us, ...
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Dear netters I am wondering about the accident of Koresh. I have heard different explanations. Without any explanation about your opinions and believes, please kindly tell me: 1)- What was Koresh talking about?. (Or what was his message) 2)- What was the main reason that Government went in war with ...
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This is something I've always found a little curious. I've never quite understood the trinity thing. On the one hand, Jesus is supposed to be God incarnate. But, at the same time, he is God's son "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son". First question is, if Jesus was God in human form, how c...
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Surprise, surprise. I sure didn't lose any sleep over it, and I live there. Suppose someone said that he was sure that he would return from death, in glory and power, flying in the clouds with the host of heaven,soon, within the lifetimes of those then standing with him - and 2000 years went by without any such even...
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=>I don't necessarily agree with Pat Robertson. Every one will be placed before =>the judgement seat eventually and judged on what we have done or failed to do =>on this earth. God allows people to choose who and what they want to worship. = =I'm sorry, but He does not! Ever read the FIRST commandment? I have. App...
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But hanging is certainly painful. Or, do you not let the condemned know they are going to die? Hanging is not supposed to be very pleasant. I believe that in actuality, it is not "quick and clean". However, gas chambers can be quite non-painful. Heck, why not give them a good time? Suffication by Nitrious Ox...
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Considering what you quoted and refered to was blank, I must say: touche! Of course, you are correct, there is no atheistic mythology employed on this board. Or, if there is, it is null and void. --- Private note to Jennifer Fakult. "This post may contain one or more of the following: sarcasm...
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Then we all live happily ever after. :-) Seriously, if we all agreed on the circumstances we're in, I suspect we'd all agree on the best course of action. Unfortunately, I have no confidence that such a situation will ever arise. Some of us think there's a big God in the sky, some don't. Some think they've been c...
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Diplomatic :-) I realize I'm fighting Occam's razor in this argument, so I'll try to explain why I feel a mind is necessary. Firstly, I'm not impressed with the ability of algorithms. They're great at solving problems once the method has been worked out, but not at working out the method itself. As a specific exa...
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Interesting point. The Bible doesn't say "hate the sin". It tells to avoid sin, resist sin, even, when necessary, denounce sin. But not hate. -- :- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : ***** :- Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : ********* :- The University of G...
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No. It is very relevant. Homosexual acts and acts of beastiality are topically aranged together in the law. This is very important. Anyone who would want to say that this command against homosexuality deals with temple prostitution (and I think you would agree that there is no proof for this.) If the Law reveals ...
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: Consequently, : this verse indicates that she was without sin. Also, as was observed at : the very top of this post, Mary had to be free from sin in order to be the : mother of Jesus, who was definitely without sin. If the mother of Jesus had to be with...
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It seems you lived a fairly 'wild life'-- my background is far more traditional, mostly working, working, working. Maybe there's a clear indication that the way you lived your life produced a certain amount of anxiety that needed to be released. Religion was one possible medicine. While my more stable environment did...
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After reading this story about St. Maria Goretti (posted two weeks ago), I am a bit confused. While it is clear that her daily life is one of probity and sanctity, I am afraid I don't quite understand the final episode of her life. I am reading it correctly, she (and the Church apparently) felt that being raped was ...
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Curiously enough, this subject has occupied a good bit of my prayer life recently. God's experience of time is so completely different from our own, since He is both within and without it. Using words like "foreknowledge" and "predestination" are semantically incorrect when it comes to describing God's perception of...
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Society is the collection of individuals which will fall under self-defined rules. In terms of UN decisions all the sets of peoples who are represented at the UN are considered part of that society. If we then look at US federal laws provided by representatives of purely US citizens then the society for that case ...
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#I find myself unable to put these two statements together in a #sensible way: # #>Abortion is done because the mother can not afford the *pregnancy*. # #[...] # #>If we refused to pay for the more expensive choice of birth, *then* #>your statement would make sense. But that is not the case, so it doesn't. # #Are we p...
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He is God. He is God. God granted you the gift of life whether you were sinner or saint. The scientist creates the living creature to examine it, poke and prod it and learn about its behaviour. He will kill it if it becomes a threat. For example, let's say the scientist creates a Tyrannosaurus Rex and it brea...
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My sentiments exactly... which is why I'm unsubbing from this group. This is the 3rd 'christian' discussion list I have ever belonged to and once again I'm being chased away by the strife, anger, discontent, lies, et al . As Paul (Saul) said, 'I come to preach Christ, and Him crucified' Don't let the simple beauty of...
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I find this remark to be awfully arrogant. I would venture to say that there are many people who are Christians now, who at one point in their lives had no intention of ever becoming a Christian. I was certainly one such person. I am quite thankful that there were Christians who were willing to continue to talk to ...
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: I agree, I had a hard feeling not believing my grand-grand mother : who told me of elves dancing outside barns in the early mornings. : I preferred not to accept it, even if her statement provided : the truth itself. Life is hard. Kent, Truly a brilliant rebuttal. Apparently you are of the opinion that ridicule i...
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... The so-called Athanasian Creed has never been a recognized standard of faith in the Orthodox Church. It was introduced (without the Filioque) in certain service-books in the 17th and 18th centuries at a time when there was a strong Western influence on Orhtodoxy.
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That is an assumption on your part. Where is your proof that one always will degenerate into hating the sinner, because he hates the sin. I am reminded of the Civil Rights movement in America. It is true that many individuals hated the proponents of racism. It is also true that many individuals hated segregatio...
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This is always an option: when the sect is causing harm, re-label the cult to something else. Cheers, Kent
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This might be better directed to s.r.c.bible-study, which I have begun reading, but since my earlier notes were posted to this forum, I will conclude here as well. A week ago, I managed to find time to consult a Septuagint Concordance and a LXX text with apparatus at the library, and I can now usefully conclude my loo...
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Indeed, the immediate context [NASB] is: 26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once, and after this comes...
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Right. The Branch Dividians were. They believed and trusted so much that it became impossible to turn back to reality. What you are advocating is total irreversible brainwashing.
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: >Prove it. I have a source that says that to date, the civilian death count : >(er, excuse me, I mean "collateral damage") is about 200,000. : : I have _never_ seen any source that was claiming such a figure. Please : post the source so its reliability can be judged. This figure would not simply be deaths by bom...
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Larry - Thanks for the reply, but this isn't quite the same thing. Like I said before, I can understand why non-Christians would be denied *access* to holy ceremonies, but the ceremony itself (communion) was not secret. In fact, all four gospels record the first "breaking of the bread" in some detail. Communio...
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No smiley on the part about atheism, I see. Do you realize that your statement says that I was mentioning "nonsense" about atheism? This is hard for me to defend against if this is the claim you are making, as you have only included the last two sentences of my post and mentioned the first. Please address the substanc...
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I think that if a theist were truly objective and throws out the notion that God definitely exists and starts from scratch to prove to themselves that the scriptures are the whole truth then that person would no longer be a theist. You're missing something here. There are people who convert from non-theism to thei...
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They looked unto him, and were lightened: and their faces were not ashamed.
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You asked me to look over here, but I was on my way back anyway :-) #[reply to cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb)] # #>If morals come from what is societally accepted, why follow that? What #>right do we have to expect others to follow our notion of societally #>mandated morality? Pardon the extremism, but couldn...
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Wow! You got me thinking now! This is an interesting question in that recently there has been a move in society to classify previously "socially unacceptable" yet legal activities as OK. In the past it seems to me there were always two coexisting methods of social control. First (and most explicit) is legal cont...
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Brian Ceccarelli presents us with the fallacy of False Dichotomy in stating that we must accept every thing in the books attributed to Peter, or we must discount every other book of antiquity: Mr Ceccarelli, you seem to be stating that we must accept accept everything written in every "historical" document. Somehow ...
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Proof positive that some people are beyond satire.
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In a word, yes.
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... Thanks for posting the exact wording which I had not seen previously. The part I quote above seems to me to indicate disapproval of capital punishment - it is to be used only when other means are not sufficient; I would say this is a stronger restriction than saying that capital punishment is useable when justifia...
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I haven't read this entire thread, but, if someone hasn't tossed this out yet, then here it is: 2 Samuel 12:21-23 (RSV) : "Then his servants said to him, `What is this thing that you have done? You fasted and wept for the child while it was alive; but when the child died, you arose and ate food.' He [David] ...
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Yes, I suppose that's true. Of course, notice I qualified with NEARLY every language :-). And there are missionaries out there who can speak every imaginable language AND dialect. But then, the fact that not all languages have a WRITTEN gospel lends no credence to the concept of "pentecost" type xenoglossolalia ...
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stuff deleted - but message is: : : : >He is God. : : In other words, the right of might. : : >He is God. : : In other words, the right of might. : : : : >God granted you the gift of life whether you were sinner or saint. : : In other words, he can do it, he did it, and your in no position to : argue about i...
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The thing is, I know what arms and legs are. It's therefore generally easy to tell whether or not someone has arms and legs. This "sinful nature", since it does not require that the baby actually perform any sins, seems to be totally invisible. As far as I know, maybe half the babies have a sinful nature and half d...
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Cute characterization Bill; however, there is no inconsistency between the two statements. Even if one believes that religion is "primitive, simple-minded and unscientific, anti-intellectual and childish", one can still hold the view that religion also adds an unnecessary level of complexity to the explanation. ...
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From _Free Inquiry_, Winter 83/84, the following is an introduction to the article "Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon", by George D. Smith. The introduction is written by Paul Kurtz. Mormonism -- the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints -- claims a worldwide membership 5.2 million. It is one of the wo...
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: Lets talk about principles. If we accept that God sets the : standards for what ought to be included in Scripture - then we : can ask: : 1. Is it authoritative? "Authoritative" is not a quality of the writing itself- it is a statement by the community of faith whether it will accept the writing as normative. : 2. I...
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A friend of mine managed to get a copy of a computerised Greek and Hebrew Lexicon called "The Word Perfect" (That is not the word processing package WordPerfect). However, some one wiped out the EXE file, and she has not been able to restore it. There are no distributors of the package in South Africa. I would appr...
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Meta-exegesis: Conviction of Sin, part II Let me return to the question, stipulating that Paul meant his use of _arseonkoitai_ to refer more or less exactly to the Levitical prohibition of male-male sex. In order to bring out the problems most clearly, I'll also stipulate (what I think is far less plausible) that Pa...
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Kent Sandvik and Jon Livesey made essentially the same response, so this time Kent's article gets the reply: This begs the question of whether it ever "started"-- perhaps because accuracy was always an intention. It makes little difference if you have eyewitnesses or people one step away (reporters, if you will). ...
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Yes, unless the observer is at rest with respect to the singularity at infinite distance away. But an observer on a close approach to the BH will see the particle go in in finite time. Peter
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If you don't agree with Joseph's accurate statement of the Catholic dogma of Mary's perpetual sinlessness, then how do you interpret Luke 1:28, And when the angel had come to her, he said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women." and Luke 1:48? ...for, behold, henceforth ...
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... Apologies, I've not been paying attention.
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Lets talk about principles. If we accept that God sets the standards for what ought to be included in Scripture - then we can ask: 1. Is it authoritative? 2. Is it prophetic? 3. Is it authentic? 4. Is it dynamic? 5. Is it received, collected, read and used? On these counts, the apocrapha falls short of the glory of ...
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The remainder of my article deleted stated why. One would be an egotist to believe that someone CARED about what Bill R. thought he needed to say about God. Whether they did or not is irrelevant.
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I give up. What's new about yet another interpretation of the odl Adam and Eve story? -- Michael
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"Hate the sin but love the sinner"...I've heard that quite a bit recently, often in the context of discussions about Christianity and homosexuality... but the context really isn't that important. My question is whether that statement is consistent with Christianity. I would think not. Hate begets more hate, never lov...
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KS> This is the story of Kent, the archetype Finn, that lives in the KS> Bay Area, and tried to purchase Thomas Paine's "Age of Reason". This KS> man was driving around, to Staceys, to Books Inc, to "Well, Cleanlighted KS> Place", to Daltons, to various other places. KS> When he asked for this book, the well educated...
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bruce@liv.ac.uk (Bruce Stephens) suggests different levels of acceptance of homosexuality: I would add 4': our churches should accept homosexual orientation but hold all people to certain standards of sexual behavior. Promiscuity, abuse of power relationships, harrassment, compulsivity are equally out of place in the...
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That's fascinating. I heard that the Chinese, rather than the Italians, invented pasta.
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genealogical old Well, since my wife is (in your gentle term) a "bastard", I can probably speak with a bit of authority on this. Any "stigma" associated with children conceived and/or born out of wedlock rests solely upon the parents--they've committed a sexual transgression for which they should repent. The child i...
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There's a difference between believing in the existence of an entity, and loving that entity. God _could_ show me directly that he exists, and I'd still have a free choice about whether to love him or not. So why doesn't he? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kevin Anthoney ...
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[reply to frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer)] If the Good is undefined (undefinable?) but you require of everyone that they know innately what is right, you are back to subjectivism. Ditto here. An evaluative statement implies a value judgement on the part of the person making it. Pretty perceptive, tha...
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With the Southern Baptist Convention convening this June to consider the charges that Freemasonry is incompatible with christianity, I thought the following quotes by Mr. James Holly, the Anti-Masonic Flag Carrier, would amuse you all... The following passages are exact quotes from "The Southern Baptist Conventi...
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Enclosed is an advertisement for the Defending the Faith IV conference to be held at Franciscan University of Steubenville (Ohio) June 25-27. I attended DTF III last year, and plan to go again this year. I would recommend it highly to Catholic interested in apologetics. There will be lots of music, well-known Cathol...
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