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3,759 | In the King James Version of the Bible there are three differents words
translated into the word "hell". These Greek words have totally different
meanings. The words are Hades, Tartaros, and Gehenna.
In bibical usage, the Greek word Hades is used only 11 times in the
New Testament, and is roughly the equivale... | 4 |
5,153 | My last response in this thread fell into a bit-bucket and vanished
(though appearing locally). I'll repost it, since I always feel
slighted when someone appears to ignore one of my postings in a
conversational thread, I don't want Rob to think I'm doing so. Since
this is now dated, however, don't feel compelled to r... | 4 |
4,070 |
...
If we take things this literally then we must also forbid women from
speaking in church. Paul while led by the holy spirit was human and could
err. I find it interesting that CHRIST never discussed the issue of
homosexuality, certainly it existed back then and if it was a serious
transgression CHRIST would have c... | 4 |
4,284 | refrettably you are mistaken. alt.drugs was used to recruit people for the
worldwide pot religion. I, however hve no problem being in both of them
| 4 |
4,800 |
So what do we have now, an integral over pain X time?
I get to lash you with a wet noodle for ever, but I only get to
cut you up with a power saw if I'm quick about it? | 4 |
4,165 | : BULLSHIT!!! In the Gulf Massacre, 7% of all ordnance used was "smart." The
: rest - that's 93% - was just regular, dumb ol' iron bombs and stuff. Have
: you forgotten that the Pentagon definition of a successful Patriot launch
: was when the missile cleared the launching tube with no damage? Or that a
: successful in... | 4 |
2,385 |
Yes, but no more than he is worth. :-). Seriously: Jerome is merely
(and grandly) another Christian witness, to be taken for what he can
tell us. He is one in the community of saints. You seem to wish for
a greater polarization and dichotomy between Catholic and Protestant
thought than seems to me, from a historic... | 4 |
6,539 | [By default, followups to 3 newsgroups.]
A short excerpt:
[...] | 4 |
6,369 | I have enrolled in "The History of Christianity" at a college here in
St. Louis. The teacher of the class is what I consider to be
closed-minded and bigotted on the subject of what the definition of
Christianity is. His definition is tied directly to that of the
Trinity and the Catholic church's definition of it and b... | 4 |
5,128 |
Apparently you *didn't* read the whole thing. You continue to miss the point.
[deletions]
Counselling that only provides alternatives to abortion would be just as
biased as counselling that only provides *abortion* information. How about
providing counselling that will give a woman help in finding what *she*... | 4 |
5,283 |
No, this is far from clear. We only have the word of the FBI spokepeople that
a survivor made this claim. We have the contradictory word of the lawyers who
spoke with the survivors individually that ALL of them agreed that they did
NOT have a suicide pact and did not intentionally start the fire. In the absense
of ... | 4 |
4,183 | 4 | |
6,219 |
Whoa, dude I don't see the jump you made.
She was blessed, I'll give you that much.
What do you mean, she was placed "beyond"
the sanctification of normal humanity. | 4 |
3,636 | Has anyone read this important book? If so, what are your feelings about it?
Frank | 4 |
5,533 | [ . . .]
I am a relativist who would like to answer your question, but the way you
phrase the question makes it unanswerable. The concepts of "right"
and "wrong" (or "correct/incorrect" or "true/false") belong to the
domain of epistemological rather than moral questions. It makes no
sense to ask if a moral position ... | 4 |
635 | [cont. Dr. James DeYoung; #3]
R. Scroggs
Robin Scroggs has built upon the discussion of his predecessors and
suggested a new twist to the word. Scroggs believes that arsenokoitai is a
"Hellenistic Jewish coinage, perhaps influenced by awareness of rabbinic
terminology." The term is derived from Lev 18"22 & 20:... | 4 |
5,427 | 4 | |
6,598 |
If you want parallels the best source is probably the book _Temple
and Cosmos_ by Hugh Nibley. It is not light reading however.
As to why these early practices "only parallel" and do not exactly
duplicate the modern LDS ceremony, there are a couple of reasons:
1. Quite likely we do not have the exact original fro... | 4 |
2,274 | The tongue that brings healing is a
tree of life,
but a deceitful tongue crushes the
spirit. | 4 |
3,546 |
: Very true (length of time for discussions on creationism vs evolutionism).
: Atheists and Christians have been debating since ?? and still debate with
: unabated passion 8-).
Mike,
I've seen referrences to "Creation vs Evolution" several times in a.a
and I have question. Is either point of view derived from dire... | 4 |
6,047 |
I agree with your points, and I'm glad to hear that you subscribe
to the notion of secular humanism, humans helping humans instead
of hoping for a possible deux ex machina solution!
As for faith, you could always use such constructs to dampen
your anger or sorrow.
Cheers,
Kent | 4 |
2,117 | : >
: Precisely my position.
: As a newbie, I tried the point-by-point approach to debate with
: these types. It wasted both my time and my lifespan. Ignoring
: them is not an option, since they don't go away, and doing so
: would leave one with large stretches of complete anonymity in this
: group.
... | 4 |
5,228 | I have already made the clear claim that
Don't mind my saying this but the best example of obfuscation is to
condemn without having even your most basic facts straight. If you
want some examples, go back and look at your previous posts, where
you manage to get your facts wrong about the fatwa and Khomeini's
supposed ... | 4 |
7,340 |
You should remember that in Adam's transgression, all men and women
sinned, as Paul wrote. All of humanity cooperativley reblled against
God in Adma's sin, thus, all are subject to it, and the sin is
transmitted from generation to generation. | 4 |
1,342 | [does he believe in predestination]
really? you may be right, but i'd like proof. as far as i know (and
i am not a div school student!) the catholic church does not seem to
accept predestination. my chaplain told me "beware of greeks bearing
gifts" with reference to this doctrine: it seems to have the curious
resul... | 4 |
5,603 |
That was my point. If I play poker with Monopoly money I can bet
anything I want.
This is exactly why Christianity is missionary in nature,
not just out of a need to irritate. 8-)
To the people who wrote the Bible and to whom the Bible is written,
there is evidence of love, but that is a cultural bias. This is
a... | 4 |
3,385 |
This is not correct. The event horizon is not the "center" of the black
hole but merely the distance at which the escape velocity is equal to the
speed of light. That is, the event horizon is a finite radius... | 4 |
4,517 |
Looking at your discussion I would say that you both operate
from your own reference frame. There's no inside and no outside,
there are just two polarized views. As for statements inside the
Bible, things are still not that clear, we don't have any indications
for instance why Jobs was placed in the Old Testament, one... | 4 |
984 |
My wifes uncle was a 30+ level mason. He let me look at some of the books
(which after his death his "brothers" came over and took from his greiving
widow before his body had even cooled). Don't tell me you don't worship
Osiris. You must not be past your 20th level. You should read Wilkinson's
Egyptians and how he... | 4 |
2,722 | I read somewhere that Kurt Goedel argued that the ontological argument
for God's existence was logically reasonable (or something to that
effect).
Does anyone know if this is true, and have a citation?
Thanks. | 4 |
6,721 |
What is fornication? (sex outside of marriage, abuse of sex)
Is not homosexual intercourse outside the context of marriage?
Isn't it an unatural use of what God has given us?
Why is it that homosexuals are using the Grace of God as a license to
practice sin?
For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, t... | 4 |
5,496 |
(Deletion)
The reference to it's not yet being ethics is dubious. You have used the terms
absolute, objective and others interchangeably. Same with moral values, values,
at all, worth, measuers, and usefulness. You infer from them as if they were
the same.
To the IF. When the If is not fulfilled, your intermissio... | 4 |
6,478 |
The killing of the ATF agents is a separate issue. My point is that many
children died because of Koresh defending himself. Did he have what you
call the "moral right" to keep those children in a dangerous enviroment in
order to defend himself?
| 4 |
929 |
Vell, this is perfectly normal behaviour Vor a Vogon, you know? | 4 |
3,822 | 4 | |
3,904 | 4 | |
4,776 | John E. King (king@ctron.com) posts a whopping one liner:
* "The modern theory of evolution is so inadequate that it deserves to be *
* treated as a matter of faith." -- Francis Hitching *
I have a few points to make about the above posting.
1. Science is not based on and does not consis... | 4 |
1,020 |
Brian Kendig also declares:
"Christ" is Greek for "Messiah". "Messiah" means "Annointed One".
"Annoint" means "to rub with oil, i.e. to anoint; by impl. to
consecrate" The major prophet Daniel uses the word "Messiah"
in Daniel chapter 9. | 4 |
6,010 |
Hmm. The police strategy of bursting in with weapons drawn, clearly marked as
officers and yelling "Police" repeatedly. This is used every day to bust drug
houses. The idea is to awe the suspects into submission with surprise and
display of firepowere in order to avoid a gun fight. As for not knocking, it's
a sad ... | 4 |
5,544 | This is hell. Hasn't anyone noticed?
| 4 |
4,656 |
Well lets see - a long haired nut case with sexual hangups surrounded
by a lot of gulible losers without a brain between them with a miserable
and meaningless death to boot
Sounds like he fits the bill to me!
Joseph 'Remember David Koresh fried for you' Askew
| 4 |
503 | Can a theist be truly objective? Can he be impartial
when questioning the truth of his scriptures, or
will he assume the superstition of his parents
when questioning?
I've often found it to be the case that the theist
will stick to some kind of superstition when
wondering about God and his s... | 4 |
5,115 | Fred Gilham asks (May 11) whether it is true that Kurt Goedel wrote
a version of the ontological argument for the existence of God.
Yes, he did. He did not publish it, but it will be published by the
Oxford University Press in German and with English translation in
Volume 3, due to appear this fall, of his Collected W... | 4 |
7,344 |
Yes, one does. I examined a critique of the Book of Romans by
I think, Benjamin Franklin once, a Deist. I found it amazing that
Benjamin Franklin missed the whole boat. I also have the writings
on Thomas Jefferson sitting on my shelf, and it is amazing how
much he missed. I have studied Plato's Theory of Forms an... | 4 |
4,200 |
Translation of the above paragraph:
"I am uninformed about the evidence for evolution. Please send me the
talk.origins FAQs on the subject."
| 4 |
2,081 | Aside to the moderator:
I won't quote any of it, but there are several errors in the article.
Not things that are just differences of opinion, but the writer just
plain has his facts confused.
For example, Kip McKean was *asked* to come to the Lexington church
by the leaders there. He brought no team. He actually h... | 4 |
7,165 |
[ Deletia; in case anybody hadn't noticed, Frank and I are debating
"objective morality", and seemingly hitting semantics. ]
It may be that, being a non-native English-speaker, I've
misunderstood your usage of "objective", and tried to debate something
you don't assert; my apologies. I'm at a loss to imagine... | 4 |
1,354 |
You mean Bobby Mozumder is a myth? We wondered about that.
You mean Bobby Mozumder didn't really post here? We wondered
about that, too.
So, Mr Conner. Is Bobby Mozumder a myth, a performing artist,
a real Moslem. a crackpot, a provocateur? You know everything
and read all minds: why don't you tell us? | 4 |
522 | . | 4 |
3,408 |
"I'm afraid I'm going to have to kill you. Don't worry, though; as a Loving
Christian, I guarantee that I will regret the fact that I have to kill
you, although I won't regret the actual killing."
False dichotomy.
That's because they weren't even attempted.
You want to know why it bothers me that thousands of i... | 4 |
6,884 |
I wouldn't and don't. I thought I did a pretty good job of
qualifying my statement, but apparently some people
misinterpreted my intentions. I apologize for my part in
communicating any confusion. My intent was more to
stir up discussion rather than judge. It seems to
have worked.
[rest of post noted - by the wa... | 4 |
4,783 | Ken,
Then what happens when you die?
Why are you here?
What is the purpose of Your life, do you think it's
just by chance you're in the family you are in and have the
friends you have?
Why do you think your searching? To fill the void that
exists in your life. Who do you think can fill that void | 4 |
5,272 | (This is a continuation of an earlier post)
(I am sorry you found this offensive. It was not my intent to offend. I was
leading up to another point, which I discuss in more detail below.)
I can see you have a revulsion for bestiality that far exceeds my distaste for
homosexuality. Certainly if I spoke about ho... | 4 |
320 | 4 | |
7,006 |
(I presume you are quoting John 3:3-7.)
1. My King James Bible says "Except a man be born of water
and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God"
(John 3:5). (Here "man" == "adult").
(However, this could be a quibble between translations.)
2. We can also analyze to whom the Lord is addressing:
... | 4 |
1,039 | Could the guy who wrote the article "Why I am not Bertrand Russell"
resend me a copy? | 4 |
7,220 | You just don't get it, do you?
I think the discussion is more like this...
Me: [ happily picking daisies by the side of the road ]
BC: [ dancing on the double yellow broken line ]
"Come on out and play on the highway!"
Me: "Why?"
BC: "The highway was put here for people to be on. We must work towards
fulfi... | 4 |
1,494 | ********NOTE: FOLLOWUPS go to alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc,talk.origins!
[deleted]
If you say X statement and give it the authority of fact, I will respond
by asking you why. You aren't obligated to say anything, but if your
intent is to convince me that X statement is true, then yes, the burden
of proof is upon yo... | 4 |
561 | Stuff deleted
I reiterate that I would agree with you that there is little
justification for the punishment of apostasy in the Qur'an.
In Islamic history, as well, apostasy has rarely been punished.
Belief is considered a matter of conscience and since there
is to be no compulsion in the matter of belief, apostates h... | 4 |
3,140 |
[some big deletions]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Another in a string of idiotic generalizations. Gad, I'm surprised I got
this far down in the post. I guess some just like seeing their names up on
a CRT.
Like me :-)
Phil Trodwell | 4 |
4,884 | While this is essentially a discussion of reincarnation in the context of
Christianity Gerry Palo has made some comparisons to Asian religious
beliefs on this topic which have simplified the Asian idea of karma
to the point of misrepresentation.
There are significant differences in the idea of karma among Hindus,
Jain... | 4 |
6,451 | Is anybody using David Rapier's Hebrew Quiz software? And can tell
me how to *space* when typing in the Hebrew? (space bar doesn't work,
for me anyway...) Email please; thanks.
Ken | 4 |
3,179 | acooper@mac.cc.macalstr.edu (Turin Turambar, ME Department of Utter Misery)
said re. Dan Schaertel's article [if I followed the quoting right]:
I think it may also be worthwhile pointing out that if we
take the appellation `Rabbi' seriously then Jesus had a full
grasp of contemporary `scripture'
Mat21:42 Jesus sai... | 4 |
5,397 |
I am not familiar with, or knowledgeable about the original language,
but I believe there is a word for "idol" and that the translator
would have used the word "idol" instead of "graven image" had
the original said "idol." So I think you're wrong here, but
then again I could be too. I just suggesting a way to determ... | 4 |
3,361 | Did you by any chance see the pictures of the agents in flak jackets climbing
up on the roof and breaking windows. You call that peaceful? If you
believed, as these people did, that they would be attacked by evil forces
from the outside, found the scores of agents breaking into your compound
what would you do? Your ... | 4 |
7,326 |
Robin Lane Fox is a historian and a gardener. He has written several
history books, perhaps a recent one you might remember is "The Search
for Alexander". He has also written or edited several books on
gardening. | 4 |
5,133 |
> Public revelation, which is the basis of Catholic doctrine, ended
> with the death of St John, the last Apostle. Nothing new can be
> added.
Every so often, the Pope declares that some departed Christian is
now in Heaven, and may be invoked in the public rites of the Church.
It is my understanding that Roman Cat... | 4 |
4,433 |
In some earlier discussions on this thread I may have
given the impression that even though children didn't
require baptism it wouldn't hurt if they were.
To the contrary, when you baptize children before
they are capable of comprehending it you deny them
their opportunity to demonstrate their desire to
serve God.
... | 4 |
6,314 | It troubles me that there have been so many posts recently trying to support
the doctrine of Original Sin. This is primarily a Catholic doctrine, with no
other purpose than to defend the idea of infant baptism. Even among, its
supporters, however, people will stop short of saying that unbaptised infants
will go to he... | 4 |
1,062 |
I use it to refer to those Christians who take a more
conservative-literalist approach to the Bible, as distinct from
"liberals".
I would use the word "Christian" (unqualified) to describe someone to
whom the above definition applied. BTW, it applies to me.
[deletia: Joe Gaut indicates his interest in the BD dis... | 4 |
6,195 |
The biblical arguments against homosexuality are weak at best, yet
Christ is quite clear about our obligations to the poor. How as
Christians can we demand celibacy from homosexuals when we walk
by homeless people and ignore the pleas for help?
Christ is quite clear on our obligations to the poor.
Thought for the d... | 4 |
6,331 |
An extremely good example of "circumstantial evidence!"
Every time these right-wing control-freaks start spouting
about prayer in schools, I get this nagging commentary
from the Sermon on the Mount [Matt: 6:5-6] "And when you
pray, do not imitate the hypocrites: they love to say their
prayers standing up in the synag... | 4 |
6,954 | Stephen A. Creps writes to All:
[...]
SAC> Also, we know that
SAC> the Bible says that _everyone_ must be baptized to enter Heaven.
Where exactly does it say that?
SAC> _Everyone_ includes infants, unless there is other Scripture to the
SAC> contrary, i.e. an exception. Since there is no exception listed in th... | 4 |
3,391 |
Well, again, I am doing as much as the poster I was replying too. I am
quite busy and really don't have the time to respond in full scholarly
form to every accusation that is flippantly made by someone who's
being clearly antagonistic.
I have considered it. But if someone spreads falsehoods out of
ignoranc... | 4 |
7,456 |
Bill Conner, meet Bill Conner. | 4 |
4,929 | ^^-- name?
Other than it tells quite a lot about the Man himself.
Are you the spokesman for "most people?"
That you don't recognize the Biblical commentary used. Those in the
church know the language though, and have no such excuse.
You missed the po... | 4 |
4,089 |
For example, I would claim that the recent assassination of four
catholic construction workers who had no connection with the IRA
was probably religously motivated.
What would you call is when someone writes "The killings in N.I
are not religously motivated?"
Given that the avowed aim of the IRA is to take Northe... | 4 |
832 | .
It should be remembered that all of the first reports came from
the FBI, and that independent observers, i.e. the press, were not
allowed to get close and see things for themselves. Official
communiques tend to be self-serving for the agencies that issue
them.
People ... | 4 |
3,070 |
I didn't know God was a secular humanist...
Kent | 4 |
4,867 |
As opposed to Universal or Catholic or "FourSquare Gosple". I think that
the Greek Orthodox Church would take high offense at your misuse of the
word. Your version of Christianity is neither mainstream nor bible derived
you make claims of bible-centricity that are not derivable soley from the
Bible. Ab... | 4 |
386 | Thanks for the responses so far. I hope that I have
sparked some thought (which is more my intent than
to restart one of the Reformations).
I'm just going to tug on two threads:
In Message-ID: <May.10.05.07.21.1993.3479@athos.rutgers.edu>
db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler) writes,
I was simply observing that... | 4 |
7,187 |
Actually in D&C 68:25-28 the parents are being held accountable for
their own sins. Specifically they are accountable for their failure
to teach their children properly. If I fail to teach my children
that stealing is wrong then I am responsible for their theft if they
later indulge in such behavior. | 4 |
6,728 |
STILL, the Angel Gabriel's greetings was:
"Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you.
Blessed art thou amongst women".
Even Mary was confused about this greeting. | 4 |
2,418 |
Why don't you ask the approx. two million British Muslims who break
it five times a day and have never ever been prosecuted under it?
Then ask how easy it is to hold a Christian church service in Saudi
Arabia. | 4 |
4,482 |
Let me say that the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ is
central to Christianity. If you personally believe that Jesus Christ
died for you, you are a part of the Christian body of believers.
We are all still human. We don't know it all, but homosexual or heterosexual,
we all strive to follow Jesus. The w... | 4 |
1,837 |
I'm curious to know if Christians ever read books based on critique
on the religion, classical text such as "Age of Reason" by Paine,
or "The Myth Maker" by Jacobi. Sometimes it is good to know your
enemy, and if you want to do serious research you have to understand
both sides, and not solely the one and only right o... | 4 |
1,397 | Does anyone know about the Christian Embassy in Washington DC? What
exactly does it do?
Please respond to lisa@ux1.lbl.gov | 4 |
460 |
I don't think the issue of whether infants have faith is relevant or not.
Certainly they *can*, as the example of John in utero proves. I find the
translation of Col 2 above odd in terms of the circumcision of christ,
which the KJV and RSV put in terms of Christ's cricumcision which we, in
union with him *participate*... | 4 |
1,348 | : >
: > I think you're letting atheist mythology
: Great start. I realize immediately that you are not interested
: in discussion and are going to thump your babble at me. I would
: much prefer an answer from Ms Healy, who seems to have a
: reasonable and reasoned approach to things. Say, aren't you the
: creation... | 4 |
6,921 | A recent post bears the subject line:
> Re: Serbian genocide work of God?
The text contains 80 lines devoted to a defence of the doctrine of
predestination as applied to the salvation of individuals. There is
then a five-line post-script on the Balkans. It is natural and easy
to keep the Subject line of the post tha... | 4 |
5,210 |
I've tried 72105.1351@compuserve.com
Bounced twice.... Any other guesses? | 4 |
6,328 |
Yes.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No, look again. While you never *said* it, the implication is pretty clear.
I'm sorry, but I can only respond to your words, not your true meaning. Usenet
is a slippery medium.
[deleted wrt the burden of proof]
Look, I'm not suppor... | 4 |
973 |
The "R Us" thing is trademarked. I don't know if Charles
Lazarus is dead or alive, but I'd be careful, because with
a name like Lazarus, he might rise again just to start a
lawsuit.
Dean Kaflowitz | 4 |
872 |
But one of the most basic concepts of Christian morality is that we
all have defective appetites due to original sin. Not just
homosexuals, but everybody. Thus we are not entitled to indulge in
whatever behavior our bodies want us to.
I think we need to keep clear the distinction between homosexual
_behavior_ (whi... | 4 |
2,213 |
For your information, I checked the Library of Congress catalog,
and they list the following books by Francis Hitching:
Earth Magic
The Neck of the Giraffe, or Where Darwin Went Wrong
Pendulum: the Psi Connection
The World Atlas of Mysteries
| 4 |
4,289 | On 26-Apr-93 in Re: What part of "No" don't..
Please provide evidence that having a moment of silence for a student
who died tragically costs taxpayers money.
| 4 |
5,395 |
No wonder that we don't see any detail for this claim. It is good to
remember that you have answered the statement that you are a theist
by another correspondent with that you are not a member of a denomination.
It is either stupidity or an attempt at a trick answer. Not unlike the
rest of your arguments.
I a... | 4 |
6,805 | rh> From: house@helios.usq.EDU.AU (ron house)
rh> Newsgroups: alt.atheism
rh> Organization: University of Southern Queensland
rh> I _know_ I shouldn't get involved, but... :-)
rh> [bit deleted]
[rest of rant deleted]
This is a standard argument for fundies. Can you spot the falicy? The
statement is arguing fro... | 4 |
3,410 | From article <May.13.02.28.48.1993.1471@geneva.rutgers.edu>, by creps@lateran.ucs.indiana.edu (Stephen A. Creps):
Just a little issue of semantics:
Would it not be better, then to call it "pre-determination"?!
--
RRRRR OO BBBBB :
R R OO OO B B :
R R OO ... | 4 |
4,463 | The cited passages are covered IN DEPTH in a FAQ for this group.
That particular FAQ (I've forgotten the author) discusses the
traditional vs. pro-homosexual interpretations of the passages and
indicates which points have strong textual support.
Perhaps the moderator might give again the instructions for
retrieving th... | 4 |
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