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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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all they'll ultimately be able to give you
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:56:19.120
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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is big tables of numbers, matrices,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:56:20.600
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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that define the neural network.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:56:23.920
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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And you can stare at these tables of numbers
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:56:25.720
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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till your face turn blue,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:56:28.080
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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and you're not gonna understand much
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:56:29.600
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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about why it made that move.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:56:32.520
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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And even if you have natural language processing
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:56:34.520
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
that can tell you in human language about,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:56:37.640
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
oh, five, seven, points, two, eight,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:56:40.280
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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still not gonna really help.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:56:42.520
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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So I think there's a whole spectrum of fun challenges
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:56:43.560
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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that are involved in taking a computation
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:56:47.480
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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that does intelligent things
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:56:50.520
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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and transforming it into something equally good,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:56:52.240
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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equally intelligent, but that's more understandable.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:56:57.760
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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And I think that's really valuable
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:57:01.840
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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because I think as we put machines in charge
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:57:03.240
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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of ever more infrastructure in our world,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:57:07.440
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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the power grid, the trading on the stock market,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:57:09.760
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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weapon systems and so on,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:57:12.680
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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it's absolutely crucial that we can trust
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:57:14.320
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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these AIs to do all we want.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:57:17.760
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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And trust really comes from understanding
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:57:19.400
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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in a very fundamental way.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:57:22.520
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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And that's why I'm working on this,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:57:24.400
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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because I think the more,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:57:27.560
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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if we're gonna have some hope of ensuring
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:57:29.160
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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that machines have adopted our goals
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:57:31.840
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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and that they're gonna retain them,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:57:33.520
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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that kind of trust, I think,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:57:35.800
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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needs to be based on things you can actually understand,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:57:38.800
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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preferably even improve theorems on.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:57:41.200
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Even with a self driving car, right?
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:57:44.240
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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If someone just tells you it's been trained
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:57:47.040
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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on tons of data and it never crashed,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:57:48.680
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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it's less reassuring than if someone actually has a proof.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:57:50.640
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Maybe it's a computer verified proof,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:57:54.200
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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but still it says that under no circumstances
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:57:55.960
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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is this car just gonna swerve into oncoming traffic.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:57:58.800
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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And that kind of information helps to build trust
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:58:02.320
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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and helps build the alignment of goals,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:58:04.640
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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at least awareness that your goals, your values are aligned.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:58:09.400
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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And I think even in the very short term,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:58:12.200
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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if you look at how, you know, today, right?
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:58:13.840
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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This absolutely pathetic state of cybersecurity
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:58:16.360
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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that we have, where is it?
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:58:19.320
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
Three billion Yahoo accounts we can't pack,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:58:21.720
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
almost every American's credit card and so on.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:58:27.200
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Why is this happening?
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:58:32.800
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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It's ultimately happening because we have software
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:58:34.120
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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that nobody fully understood how it worked.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:58:37.960
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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That's why the bugs hadn't been found, right?
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:58:41.200
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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And I think AI can be used very effectively
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:58:44.800
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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for offense, for hacking,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:58:47.480
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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but it can also be used for defense.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:58:49.640
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Hopefully automating verifiability
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:58:52.320
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
and creating systems that are built in different ways
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:58:55.360
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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so you can actually prove things about them.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:59:00.680
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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And it's important.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:59:02.920
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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So speaking of software that nobody understands
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:59:05.240
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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how it works, of course, a bunch of people ask
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:59:07.680
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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about your paper, about your thoughts
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:59:10.640
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
of why does deep and cheap learning work so well?
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:59:12.160
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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That's the paper.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:59:14.680
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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But what are your thoughts on deep learning?
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:59:15.520
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
These kind of simplified models of our own brains
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:59:18.320
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
have been able to do some successful perception work,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:59:21.880
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
pattern recognition work, and now with AlphaZero and so on,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:59:26.440
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
do some clever things.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:59:29.560
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
What are your thoughts about the promise limitations
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:59:30.880
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
of this piece?
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:59:33.880
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
Great, I think there are a number of very important insights,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:59:35.680
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
very important lessons we can always draw
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:59:43.080
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
from these kinds of successes.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:59:44.640
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
One of them is when you look at the human brain,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:59:47.120
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
you see it's very complicated, 10th of 11 neurons,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:59:48.960
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
and there are all these different kinds of neurons
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:59:51.480
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
and yada, yada, and there's been this long debate
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:59:53.320
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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about whether the fact that we have dozens
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:59:55.040
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
of different kinds is actually necessary for intelligence.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:59:57.200
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
We can now, I think, quite convincingly answer
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#01:00:01.560
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
that question of no, it's enough to have just one kind.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#01:00:03.360
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
If you look under the hood of AlphaZero,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#01:00:07.640
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
there's only one kind of neuron
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#01:00:09.920
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
and it's ridiculously simple mathematical thing.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#01:00:11.080
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
So it's just like in physics,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#01:00:15.000
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
it's not, if you have a gas with waves in it,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#01:00:17.280
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
it's not the detailed nature of the molecule that matter,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#01:00:20.320
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
it's the collective behavior somehow.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#01:00:24.240
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
Similarly, it's this higher level structure
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#01:00:26.040
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
of the network that matters,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#01:00:30.720
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
not that you have 20 kinds of neurons.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#01:00:31.760
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
I think our brain is such a complicated mess
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#01:00:34.080
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
because it wasn't evolved just to be intelligent,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#01:00:37.040
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
it was involved to also be self assembling
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#01:00:41.720
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
and self repairing, right?
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#01:00:47.000
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
And evolutionarily attainable.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#01:00:48.760
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
And so on and so on.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#01:00:51.920
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
So I think it's pretty,
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#01:00:53.560
|
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