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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
we can abstract across the architecture.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0007-large.html#00:52:50.280
Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
We can write code.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
I can then compile that code for ARM
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
or whatever x86 or whatever else is out there.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
And then even higher level than that,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
you're looking at Python, Ruby, interpreted languages.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
And then, to me, as a programmer,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
I'm like, OK, I want to go even higher.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
I want to go higher than that.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
How do I abstract higher than the language?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
It's like, well, you abstract in spoken language
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
and written language, right?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
You're sort of inspiring people to get things done,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
giving them guidance, like, what if we did this?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
What if we did this?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
You're writing in the highest level language
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
that there is, which is, for me, English,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
whatever your spoken language is.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
So it's all about being effective, right?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
And I think Patrick McKenzie, patio11 on Hacker News
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
and works at Stripe, has a great post about this,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
of how calling yourself a programmer
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
is a career limiting move at some level
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
once you get far enough from your career.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
And I really believe that.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
And again, I apologize.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
This is sound discouraging.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
I don't mean it to be, but he's so right.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Because all the stuff that goes on around the code,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
like the people, that's another thing,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
if you look at my early blog entries, is about, wow,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
programming is about people more than it's
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
about code, which doesn't really make sense.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
But it's about, can these people even get along together?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Can they understand each other?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Can you even explain to me what it is you're working on?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Are you solving the right problem?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
PeopleWare, another classic programming book,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
which, again, up there with Code Complete,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
please read PeopleWare.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
It's that software is people.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
People are the software, first and foremost.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
So a lot of the skills that I was working on early
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
in the blog were about figuring out the people
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
parts of programming, which were the harder parts.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
The hard part of programming, once you
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
get a certain skill level in programming,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
you can pretty much solve any reasonable problem that's
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
put in front of you.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
You're not writing algorithms from scratch.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
That just doesn't happen.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
So any sort of reasonable problem put in front of you,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
you're going to be able to solve.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
But what you can't solve is, our manager is a total jerk.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
You cannot solve that with code.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
That is not a code solvable problem.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
And yet, that will cripple you way more than, oh, we
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
had to use this stupid framework I don't like,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
or Sam keeps writing bad code that I hate,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
or Dave is off there in the wilderness writing
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
God knows what.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
These are not your problems.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Your problem is your manager or a co worker
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
is so toxic to everybody else in your team
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
that nobody can get anything done,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
because everybody's so stressed out and freaked out.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
These are the problems that you have to attack.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Absolutely.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
And so as you go to these higher level abstractions,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
as you've developed as a programmer
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
to higher and higher level abstractions
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
and go into natural language, you're
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
also the guy who preached building it, diving in
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
and doing it, and learn by doing.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Yes.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Do you worry that as you get to higher and higher level
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
abstractions, you lose track of the lower level of just
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
building?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Do you worry about that, even not maybe now,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
but 10 years from now, 20 years from now?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Well, no.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
I mean, there is always that paranoia around, oh, gosh,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
I don't feel it's valuable since I'm not writing code.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
But for me, when we started the discourse project,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
it was Ruby, which I didn't really know Ruby.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
I mean, as you pointed out, and this
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
is another valuable observation in Stack Overflow,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
you can be super proficient in, for example, C Sharp,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
which I was working in.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
That's what we built Stack Overflow in and still
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
is written in.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
And then switch to Ruby, and you're a newbie again.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
But you have the framework.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
I know what a for loop is.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
I know what recursion is.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
I know what a stack trace is.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
I have all the fundamental concepts to be a programmer.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
I just don't know Ruby.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
So I'm still on a higher level.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
I'm not like a beginner beginner, like you're saying.
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