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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
TypeScript for Microsoft from the guy who
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
built C Sharp Anders, who's one of the greatest
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
minds in software development, right,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
like in terms of language design.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
And says, no, no, no, we want to bolt on a strict type
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
system to JavaScript because it makes things better.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
And now everybody's like, oh my god, we deployed TypeScript
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
and found 50 latent bugs that we didn't know about, right?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Like, this is super common.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
So I think there is a truth in programming
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
that strictness, it's not the goal.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
We're not saying be super strict because strictness is correct.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
No, it's no, no.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Strictness produces better results.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
That's what I'm saying, right?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
So strict typing of variables, I would
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
say you almost universally have consensus now
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
is basically correct.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Should be that way in every language, right?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Duck equals five should generate an error
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
because no, you didn't declare.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
You didn't tell me that duck was an integer, right?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
That's a bug, right?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Or maybe you mistyped.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
You typed deck instead of duck, right?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
You never know.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
This happens all the time, right?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
So with that in mind, I will say that the strictness
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
of the system is correct.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Now, that doesn't mean cruel.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
That doesn't mean mean.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
That doesn't mean angry.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
It just means strict, OK?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
So I think where there's misunderstanding
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
is people get cranky, right?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Like, another question you asked is like, why are programmers
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
kind of mean sometimes?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Well, who do programmers work with all day long?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
So I have a theory that if you're at a job
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
and you work with assholes all day long,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
what do you eventually become?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
An asshole.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
An asshole.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
And what is the computer except the world's biggest asshole?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Because the computer has no time for your bullshit.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
The computer, the minute you make a mistake,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
everything is crashing down, right?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
One semicolon has crashed space missions, right?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
So that's normal.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
So you begin to internalize that.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
You begin to think, oh, my coworker, the computer,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
is super strict and kind of a jerk about everything.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
So that's kind of how I'm going to be.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Because I work with this computer,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
and I have to exceed to its terms on everything.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
So therefore, you start to absorb that.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
You start to think, oh, well, being really strict arbitrarily
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
is really good.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
An error of error code 56249 is a completely good error message
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
because that's what the computer gave me, right?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
So you kind of forget to be a person at some level.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
And you know how they say great detectives internalize
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
criminals and kind of are criminals themselves,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
like this trope of the master detective
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
is good because he can think like the criminal.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Well, I do think that's true of programmers.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Really good programmers think like the computer
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
because that's their job.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
But if you internalize it too much, you become the computer.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
You kind of become a jerk to everybody
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
because that's what you've internalized.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
You're almost not a jerk, but you have no patience
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
for a lack of strictness, as you said.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
It's not out of a sense of meanness.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
It's accidental.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
But I do believe it's an occupational hazard
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
of being a programmer is you start
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
to behave like the computer.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
You're very unforgiving.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
You're very terse.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
You're very, oh, wrong, incorrect, move on.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
It's like, well, can you help me?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
What could I do to fix?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
No, wrong, next question.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Like, that's normal for the computer.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Just fail, next.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
I don't know if you remember in Saturday Night Live,
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
in the 90s, they had this character who was an IT guy.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
The move guy.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Move.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Move.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Was that Jimmy Fallon?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
No.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
No.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Who played him?
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
OK, yeah, I remember.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Move.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Right.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
He had no patience for it.
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Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow and Coding Horror | Lex Fridman Podcast #7
Might have been Mad TV, actually.
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