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Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, I know what it is. I don't know if that, you see like,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:05:51.600
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I don't know if many people think of it that way when they first learned to program.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:05:56.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
They just love the puzzle of it. Like, ooh, this is cool. This is pretty.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:05:59.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's a Christmas tree, but like, it's power.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:06:02.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It is power.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:06:05.600
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Eventually, I guess you couldn't at the time, but eventually this thing,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:06:06.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
if it's interesting enough, if it's a pretty enough Christmas tree,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:06:11.040
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
it can be run by millions of people and bring them joy, like that little thing.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:06:14.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And then because it's digital, it's easy to spread.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:06:19.280
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So like you just created something that's easily spreadable to millions of people.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:06:22.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Totally.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:06:26.560
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's hard to think that way when you're six.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:06:28.160
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
In the book, you write, I am who I am because I was raised by a particular set of parents,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:06:30.800
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
both modern and conservative, forward thinking, yet locked in tradition.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:06:37.040
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I'm a Muslim and I feel I'm stronger, more centered for it.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:06:41.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I adhere to the values of my religion, even if I'm not as dutiful as I once was.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:06:46.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And I am a new American and I'm thriving on the energy,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:06:50.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
vitality and entrepreneurial spirit of this great country.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:06:55.040
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So let me ask you about your parents.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:06:59.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
What have you learned about life from them, especially when you were young?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:07:01.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So both my parents, they're Egyptian, but they moved to Kuwait right out.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:07:05.280
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Actually, there's a cute story about how they met.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:07:09.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So my dad taught COBOL in the 70s.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:07:11.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Nice.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:07:14.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And my mom decided to learn programming.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:07:15.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So she signed up to take his COBOL programming class.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:07:18.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And he tried to date her and she was like, no, no, no, I don't date.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:07:22.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And so he's like, okay, I'll propose.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:07:26.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And that's how they got married.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:07:28.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Whoa, strong move.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:07:29.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Right, exactly, right.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:07:30.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
That's really impressive.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:07:32.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Those COBOL guys know how to impress a lady.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:07:35.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So yeah, so what have you learned from them?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:07:40.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So definitely grit.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:07:43.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
One of the core values in our family is just hard work.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:07:44.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
There were no slackers in our family.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:07:48.320
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And that's something that's definitely stayed with me,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:07:50.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
both as a professional, but also in my personal life.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:07:55.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
But I also think my mom, my mom always used to like, I don't know, it was like unconditional
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:07:58.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
love.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:08:06.160
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like I just knew my parents would be there for me kind of regardless of what I chose to do.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:08:06.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And I think that's very powerful.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:08:14.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And they got tested on it because I kind of challenged cultural norms and I kind of took
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:08:15.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
a different path, I guess, than what's expected of a woman in the Middle East.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:08:21.600
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And they still love me, which I'm so grateful for that.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:08:27.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
When was like a moment that was the most challenging for them?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:08:32.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Which moment where they kind of had to come face to face with the fact that you're a bit
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:08:35.440
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
of a rebel?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:08:42.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I think the first big moment was when I had just gotten married, but I decided to go do
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:08:44.080
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
my PhD at Cambridge University.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:08:52.080
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And because my husband at the time, he's now my ex, ran a company in Cairo, he was going
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:08:53.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
to stay in Egypt.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:08:59.440
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So it was going to be a long distance relationship.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:09:00.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And that's very unusual in the Middle East for a woman to just head out and kind of pursue
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:09:03.120
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
her career.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:09:09.040
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And so my dad and my parents in law both said, you know, we do not approve of you doing this,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:09:09.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
but now you're under the jurisdiction of your husband so he can make the call.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:09:18.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And luckily for me, he was supportive.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:09:22.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
He said, you know, this is your dream come true.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:09:26.800
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
You've always wanted to do a PhD.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:09:29.600
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I'm going to support you.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:09:30.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So I think that was the first time where, you know, I challenged the cultural norms.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:09:33.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Was that scary?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:09:39.120
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Oh, my God, yes.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:09:40.080
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It was totally scary.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:09:41.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
What's the biggest culture shock from there to Cambridge, to London?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:09:42.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Well, that was also during right around September 11th.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:09:50.320
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So everyone thought that there was going to be a third world war.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:09:56.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It was really like, and I, at the time I used to wear the hijab, so I was very visibly Muslim.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:10:01.040
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And so my parents just were, they were afraid for my safety.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:10:07.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
But anyways, when I got to Cambridge, because I was so scared, I decided to take off my
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:10:11.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
headscarf and wear a hat instead.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:10:15.600
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So I just went to class wearing these like British hats, which was, in my opinion, actually
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:10:17.440
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
worse than just showing up in a headscarf because it was just so awkward, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:10:22.320
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like sitting in class with like all these.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:10:25.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Trying to fit in.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:10:27.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:10:29.040
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like a spy.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:10:29.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:10:30.320
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So after a few weeks of doing that, I was like, to heck with that.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:10:31.280
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I'm just going to go back to wearing my headscarf.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:10:34.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, you wore the hijab, so starting in 2000 and for 12 years after.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:10:37.120
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So it's always, whenever you're in public, you have to wear the head covering.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:10:43.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Can you speak to that, to the hijab, maybe your mixed feelings about it?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:10:47.280
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like what does it represent in its best case?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:10:52.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
What does it represent in the worst case?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:10:55.120
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, you know, I think there's a lot of, I guess I'll first start by saying I wore
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:10:56.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
it voluntarily.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:11:03.040
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I was not forced to wear it.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:11:04.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And in fact, I was one of the very first women in my family to decide to put on the hijab.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:11:05.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And my family thought it was really odd, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:11:09.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like there was, they were like, why do you want to put this on?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:11:13.040
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And at its best, it's a sign of modesty, humility.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:11:15.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:11:20.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's like me wearing a suit, people are like, why are you wearing a suit?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:11:22.160
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's a step back into some kind of tradition, a respect for tradition of sorts.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:11:25.280
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So you said, because it's by choice, you're kind of free to make that choice to celebrate
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:11:30.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
a tradition of modesty.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:11:36.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Exactly. And I actually like made it my own.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:11:37.760