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Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I remember I would really match the color of my headscarf with what I was wearing.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:11:40.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like it was a form of self expression and at its best, I loved wearing it.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:11:45.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
You know, I have a lot of questions around how we practice religion and religion and,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:11:52.080
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
you know, and I think also it was a time where I was spending a lot of time going back and
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:11:56.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
forth between the US and Egypt.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:12:02.160
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And I started meeting a lot of people in the US who are just amazing people, very purpose
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:12:04.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
driven, people who have very strong core values, but they're not Muslim.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:12:09.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
That's okay, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:12:14.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And so that was when I just had a lot of questions.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:12:15.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And politically, also the situation in Egypt was when the Muslim Brotherhood ran the country
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:12:19.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
and I didn't agree with their ideology.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:12:25.120
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It was at a time when I was going through a divorce.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:12:29.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like it was like, it was like just the perfect storm of like political, personal conditions
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:12:31.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
where I was like, this doesn't feel like me anymore.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:12:37.040
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And it took a lot of courage to take it off because culturally it's not, it's okay if
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:12:40.160
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
you don't wear it, but it's really not okay to wear it and then take it off.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:12:44.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
But you're still, so you have to do that while still maintaining a deep core and pride in
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:12:50.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
the origins, in your origin story.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:12:56.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Totally.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:13:02.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So still being Egyptian, still being a Muslim.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:13:02.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Right.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:13:06.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And being, I think generally like faith driven, but yeah.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:13:07.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
But what that means changes year by year for you.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:13:14.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's like a personal journey.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:13:17.440
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, exactly.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:13:18.800
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
What would you say is the role of faith in that part of the world?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:13:20.080
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like, how do you see, you mentioned it a bit in the book too.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:13:23.120
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:13:26.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I mean, I think, I think there is something really powerful about just believing that
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:13:27.600
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
there's a bigger force, you know, there's a kind of surrendering, I guess, that comes
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:13:34.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
with religion and you surrender and you have this deep conviction that it's going to be
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:13:39.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
okay, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:13:43.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like the universe is out to like do amazing things for you and it's going to be okay.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:13:44.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And there's strength to that.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:13:48.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like even when you're going through adversity, you just know that it's going to work out.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:13:50.080
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, it gives you like an inner peace, a calmness.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:13:57.040
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Exactly, exactly.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:13:59.440
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, that's, it's faith in all the meanings of that word.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:14:00.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Right.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:14:04.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Faith that everything is going to be okay.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:14:05.440
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And it is because time passes and time cures all things.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:14:07.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's like a calmness with the chaos of the world.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:14:12.320
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:14:15.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And also there's like a silver, I'm a true believer of this, that something at the specific
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:14:15.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
moment in time can look like it's catastrophic and it's not what you wanted in life.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:14:22.320
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
But then time passes and then you look back and there's the silver lining, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:14:28.800
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It maybe closed the door, but it opened a new door for you.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:14:32.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And so I'm a true believer in that, that, you know, there's a silver lining in almost
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:14:37.120
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
anything in life, you just have to have this like, yeah, faith or conviction that it's
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:14:42.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
going to work out.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:14:47.120
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, it's such a beautiful way to see a shady feeling.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:14:47.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So if you feel shady about a current situation, I mean, it almost is always true.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:14:50.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Unless it's the cliche thing of if it doesn't kill you, whatever doesn't kill you makes
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:14:57.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
you stronger.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:15:04.800
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's, it does seem that over time when you take a perspective on things that the hardest
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:15:05.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
moments and periods of your life are the most meaningful.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:15:13.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, yeah.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:15:18.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So over time you get to have that perspective.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:15:19.280
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Right.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:15:21.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
What about, because you mentioned Kuwait, what about, let me ask you about war.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:15:23.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
What's the role of war and peace, maybe even the big love and hate in that part of
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:15:30.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
the world, because it does seem to be a part of the world where there's turmoil.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:15:35.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
There was turmoil, there's still turmoil.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:15:40.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It is so unfortunate, honestly.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:15:44.560
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's, it's such a waste of human resources and, and, and yeah, and human mindshare.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:15:46.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I mean, and at the end of the day, we all kind of want the same things.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:15:53.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
We want, you know, we want a human connection, we want joy, we want to feel fulfilled, we
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:15:57.280
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
want to feel, you know, a life of purpose.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:16:02.560
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And I just, I just find it baffling, honestly, that we are still having to grapple with that.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:16:05.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I have a story to share about this.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:16:14.160
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
You know, I grew up, I'm Egyptian, American now, but, but, you know, originally from Egypt.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:16:15.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And when I first got to Cambridge, it turned out my officemate, like my PhD kind of, you
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:16:21.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
know, she ended up, you know, we ended up becoming friends, but she was from Israel.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:16:28.080
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And we didn't know, yeah, we didn't know how it was going to be like.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:16:32.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Did you guys sit there just staring at each other for a bit?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:16:37.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Actually, she, because I arrived before she did.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:16:41.040
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And it turns out she emailed our PhD advisor and asked him if she thought it was going
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:16:44.560
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
to be okay.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:16:50.320
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:16:52.320
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And this is around 9 11 too.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:16:52.800
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:16:55.040
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And, and Peter, Peter Robinson, our PhD advisor was like, yeah, like, this is an academic
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:16:55.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
institution, just show up.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:17:01.280
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And we became super good friends.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:17:02.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
We were both new moms.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:17:04.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like we both had our kids during our PhD.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:17:07.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
We were both doing artificial emotional intelligence.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:17:09.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
She was looking at speech.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:17:11.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I was looking at the face.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:17:12.320
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
We just had so the culture was so similar.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:17:13.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Our jokes were similar.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:17:17.040
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It was just, I was like, why on earth are our countries, why is there all this like
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:17:18.320
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
war and tension?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:17:24.080
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And I think it falls back to the narrative, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:17:25.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
If you change the narrative, like whoever creates this narrative of war.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:17:27.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I don't know.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:17:31.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
We should have women run the world.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:17:32.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, that's one solution.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:17:34.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
The good women, because there's also evil women in the world.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:17:37.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
True, okay.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:17:40.640