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Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
That's beautiful.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:56:07.440
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I mean, you got to make money somehow.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:56:08.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
If you help people fall in love personally with the product, find self love or love another
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:56:11.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
human being, you're going to make money.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:56:18.160
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
You're going to figure out a way to make money.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:56:19.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I just feel like the dating apps often will optimize for something else than love.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:56:22.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's the same with social networks.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:56:28.560
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
They optimize for engagement as opposed to like a deep, meaningful connection that's
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:56:30.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
ultimately grounded in like personal growth, you as a human being growing and all that
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:56:35.280
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
kind of stuff.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:56:39.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Let me do like a pivot to a dark topic, which you opened the book with.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:56:41.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
A story, because I'd like to talk to you about just emotion and artificial intelligence.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:56:48.560
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I think this is a good story to start to think about emotional intelligence.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:56:56.080
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
You opened the book with a story of a central Florida man, Jamel Dunn, who was drowning
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:56:59.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
and drowned while five teenagers watched and laughed, saying things like, you're going
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:57:05.120
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
to die.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:57:10.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And when Jamel disappeared below the surface of the water, one of them said he just died
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:57:10.800
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
and the others laughed.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:57:15.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
What does this incident teach you about human nature and the response to it perhaps?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:57:17.440
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:57:23.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I mean, I think this is a really, really, really sad story.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:57:24.320
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And it and it and it highlights what I believe is a it's a real problem in our world today.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:57:28.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's it's an empathy crisis.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:57:34.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, we're living through an empathy crisis and crisis.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:57:36.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:57:39.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:57:40.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And I mean, we've we've talked about this throughout our conversation.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:57:42.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
We dehumanize each other.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:57:45.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And unfortunately, yes, technology is bringing us together.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:57:47.040
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
But in a way, it's just dehumanized.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:57:51.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's creating this like, yeah, dehumanizing of the other.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:57:53.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And I think that's a huge problem.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:57:58.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
The good news is I think solution, the solution could be technology based.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:58:01.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like, I think if we rethink the way we design and deploy our technologies, we can solve
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:58:05.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
parts of this problem.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:58:11.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
But I worry about it.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:58:12.560
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I mean, even with my son, a lot of his interactions are computer mediated.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:58:13.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And I just question what that's doing to his empathy skills and, you know, his ability
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:58:19.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
to really connect with people.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:58:25.280
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So that you think you think it's not possible to form empathy through the digital medium.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:58:26.560
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I think it is.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:58:36.320
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
But we have to be thoughtful about because the way the way we engage face to face, which
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:58:38.560
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
is what we're doing right now, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:58:44.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
There's the nonverbal signals, which are a majority of how we communicate.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:58:45.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's like 90% of how we communicate is your facial expressions.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:58:49.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
You know, I'm saying something and you're nodding your head now, and that creates a
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:58:54.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
feedback loop.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:58:57.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And and if you break that, and now I have anxiety about it.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:58:58.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Poor Lex.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:59:04.160
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Oh, boy.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:59:06.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I am not scrutinizing your facial expressions during this interview.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:59:06.560
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I am.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:59:09.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Look normal.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:59:12.160
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Look human.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:59:12.800
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:59:13.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Look normal, look human.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:59:13.860
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Nod head.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:59:17.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, nod head.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:59:18.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
In agreement.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:59:20.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
If Rana says yes, then nod head else.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:59:21.560
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Don't do it too much because it might be at the wrong time and then it will send the
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:59:25.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
wrong signal.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:59:29.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Oh, God.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:59:30.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And make eye contact sometimes because humans appreciate that.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:59:31.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
All right.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:59:35.320
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Anyway, okay.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:59:35.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, but something about the especially when you say mean things in person, you get to
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:59:38.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
see the pain of the other person.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:59:42.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Exactly.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:59:44.280
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
But if you're tweeting it at a person and you have no idea how it's going to land, you're
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:59:44.600
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
more likely to do that on social media than you are in face to face conversations.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:59:48.120
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:59:52.040
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
What do you think is more important?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:59:54.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
EQ or IQ?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#00:59:59.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
EQ being emotional intelligence.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:00:00.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
In terms of in what makes us human.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:00:03.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I think emotional intelligence is what makes us human.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:00:08.120
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's how we connect with one another.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:00:11.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's how we build trust.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:00:14.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's how we make decisions, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:00:16.440
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like your emotions drive kind of what you had for breakfast, but also where you decide
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:00:19.560
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
to live and what you want to do for the rest of your life.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:00:25.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So I think emotions are underrated.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:00:28.600
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So emotional intelligence isn't just about the effective expression of your own emotions.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:00:33.160
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's about a sensitivity and empathy to other people's emotions and that sort of being
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:00:39.080
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
able to effectively engage in the dance of emotions with other people.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:00:44.440
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, I like that explanation.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:00:48.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I like that kind of.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:00:51.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, thinking about it as a dance because it is really about that.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:00:53.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's about sensing what state the other person's in and using that information to decide on
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:00:56.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
how you're going to react.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:01:01.800
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And I think it can be very powerful.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:01:05.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like people who are the best, most persuasive leaders in the world tap into, you know, they
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:01:06.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
have, if you have higher EQ, you're more likely to be able to motivate people to change
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:01:15.160
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
their behaviors.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:01:20.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So it can be very powerful.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:01:21.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
On a more kind of technical, maybe philosophical level, you've written that emotion is universal.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:01:24.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It seems that, sort of like Chomsky says, language is universal.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:01:31.800
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
There's a bunch of other stuff like cognition, consciousness.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:01:36.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It seems a lot of us have these aspects.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:01:39.960