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Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
That was back when I did, like, dynamic Bayesian networks.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:20:14.140
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
That was before deep learning, huh?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:20:17.500
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
That was before deep learning.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:20:19.900
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:20:21.420
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, I know.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:20:22.700
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Back in my day.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:20:24.060
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Now you can just, like, use.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:20:24.860
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, it's all the same architecture.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:20:27.340
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
You can apply it to anything.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:20:30.300
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:20:31.340
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Right, but yeah, but even then I kind of, I did not subscribe to this, like, theory
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:20:31.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
of basic emotions where it's just the simplistic mapping, one to one mapping between facial
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:20:39.120
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
expressions and emotions.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:20:43.280
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I actually think also we're not in the business of trying to identify your true emotional
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:20:44.160
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
internal state.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:20:49.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
We just want to quantify in an objective way what's showing on your face because that's
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:20:50.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
an important signal.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:20:55.600
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It doesn't mean it's a true reflection of your internal emotional state.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:20:57.040
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So I think a lot of the, you know, I think she's just trying to kind of highlight that
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:21:02.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
this is not a simple problem and overly simplistic solutions are going to hurt the industry.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:21:07.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And I subscribe to that.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:21:15.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And I think multimodal is the way to go.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:21:16.560
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like, whether it's additional context information or different modalities and channels of information,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:21:18.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I think that's what we, that's where we ought to go.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:21:24.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And I think, I mean, that's a big part of what she's advocating for as well.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:21:27.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So, but there is signal in the human face.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:21:31.280
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
There's definitely signal in the human face.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:21:33.440
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
That's a projection of emotion.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:21:35.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
There's that, at least in part is the inner state is captured in some meaningful way on
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:21:37.600
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
the human face.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:21:46.320
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I think it can sometimes be a reflection or an expression of your internal state, but
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:21:47.040
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
sometimes it's a social signal.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:21:56.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So you cannot look at the face as purely a signal of emotion.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:21:57.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It can be a signal of cognition and it can be a signal of a social expression.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:22:02.080
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And I think to disambiguate that we have to be careful about it and we have to add initial
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:22:08.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
information.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:22:13.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Humans are fascinating, aren't they?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:22:14.320
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
With the whole face thing, this can mean so many things, from humor to sarcasm to everything,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:22:16.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
the whole thing.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:22:22.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Some things we can help, some things we can't help at all.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:22:23.280
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
In all the years of leading Effectiva, an emotion recognition company, like we talked
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:22:26.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
about, what have you learned about emotion, about humans and about AI?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:22:31.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Big, sweeping questions.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:22:37.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, that's a big, sweeping question.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:22:44.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Well, I think the thing I learned the most is that even though we are in the business
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:22:46.320
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
of building AI, basically, it always goes back to the humans, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:22:52.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's always about the humans.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:23:00.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And so, for example, the thing I'm most proud of in building Effectiva and, yeah, the thing
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:23:02.160
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I'm most proud of on this journey, I love the technology and I'm so proud of the solutions
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:23:11.120
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
we've built and we've brought to market.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:23:16.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
But I'm actually most proud of the people we've built and cultivated at the company
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:23:18.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
and the culture we've created.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:23:23.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Some of the people who've joined Effectiva, this was their first job, and while at Effectiva,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:23:25.040
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
they became American citizens and they bought their first house and they found their partner
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:23:31.440
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
and they had their first kid, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:23:38.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like key moments in life that we got to be part of, and that's the thing I'm most proud
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:23:39.440
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
of.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:23:47.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So that's a great thing at a company that works at a big company, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:23:47.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So that's a great thing at a company that works at, I mean, like celebrating humanity
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:23:52.320
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
in general, broadly speaking.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:23:57.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And that's a great thing to have in a company that works on AI, because that's not often
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:23:59.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
the thing that's celebrated in AI companies, so often just raw great engineering, just
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:24:04.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
celebrating the humanity.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:24:11.120
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
That's great.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:24:12.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And especially from a leadership position.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:24:12.800
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Well, what do you think about the movie Her?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:24:17.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Let me ask you that.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:24:20.800
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Before I talk to you about, because it's not, Effectiva is and was not just about emotion,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:24:21.600
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
so I'd love to talk to you about SmartEye, but before that, let me just jump into the
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:24:28.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
movie Her.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:24:33.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Do you think we'll have a deep, meaningful connection with increasingly deeper, meaningful
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:24:36.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
connections with computers?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:24:42.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Is that a compelling thing to you?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:24:43.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Something you think about?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:24:45.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I think that's already happening.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:24:45.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
The thing I love the most, I love the movie Her, by the way, but the thing I love the
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:24:46.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
most about this movie is it demonstrates how technology can be a conduit for positive behavior
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:24:50.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
change.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:24:56.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So I forgot the guy's name in the movie, whatever.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:24:57.120
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Theodore.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:25:00.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Theodore.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:25:01.120
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So Theodore was really depressed, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:25:02.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And he just didn't want to get out of bed, and he was just done with life, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:25:05.280
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And Samantha, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:25:11.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Samantha, yeah.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:25:12.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
She just knew him so well.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:25:14.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
She was emotionally intelligent, and so she could persuade him and motivate him to change
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:25:15.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
his behavior, and she got him out, and they went to the beach together.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:25:20.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And I think that represents the promise of emotion AI.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:25:24.080
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
If done well, this technology can help us live happier lives, more productive lives,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:25:27.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
healthier lives, more connected lives.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:25:33.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So that's the part that I love about the movie.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:25:36.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Obviously, it's Hollywood, so it takes a twist and whatever, but the key notion that technology
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:25:39.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
with emotion AI can persuade you to be a better version of who you are, I think that's awesome.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:25:46.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Well, what about the twist?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:25:52.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
You don't think it's good?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:25:54.080
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
You don't think it's good for spoiler alert that Samantha starts feeling a bit of a distance
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:25:55.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
and basically leaves Theodore?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:26:01.440
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
You don't think that's a good feature?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:26:04.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
You think that's a bug or a feature?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:26:07.520