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Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And so when you see a peak, say a smile peak, they're probably smiling or laughing at something
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:14:04.700
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
that's in the content.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:14:11.100
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So that was one of the first problems we were able to solve.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:14:12.140
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And when we see the smile peak, it doesn't mean that these people are internally happy.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:14:15.740
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
They're just laughing at content.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:14:20.380
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So it's important to call it for what it is.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:14:22.060
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
But it's still really, really useful data.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:14:25.420
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I wonder how that compares to, so what like YouTube and other places will use is obviously
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:14:28.140
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
they don't have, for the most case, they don't have that kind of data.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:14:34.380
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
They have the data of when people tune out, like switch to drop off.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:14:39.900
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And I think that's an aggregate for YouTube, at least a pretty powerful signal.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:14:45.660
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I worry about what that leads to because looking at like YouTubers that kind of really care
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:14:50.300
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
about views and try to maximize the number of views, I think when they say that the video
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:14:59.580
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
should be constantly interesting, which seems like a good goal, I feel like that leads to
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:15:07.740
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
this manic pace of a video.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:15:15.100
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like the idea that I would speak at the current speed that I'm speaking, I don't know.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:15:19.020
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And that every moment has to be engaging, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:15:25.820
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Engaging.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:15:28.220
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:15:28.780
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I think there's value to silence.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:15:29.260
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
There's value to the boring bits.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:15:31.500
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I mean, some of the greatest movies ever, some of the greatest movies ever.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:15:33.660
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Some of the greatest stories ever told me they have that boring bits, seemingly boring bits.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:15:37.500
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I don't know.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:15:42.540
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I wonder about that.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:15:43.500
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Of course, it's not that the human face can capture that either.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:15:45.020
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's just giving an extra signal.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:15:49.180
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
You have to really, I don't know, you have to really collect deeper long term data about
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:15:51.500
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
what was meaningful to people.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:16:01.180
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
When they think 30 days from now, what they still remember, what moved them, what changed
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:16:03.260
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
them, what helped them grow, that kind of stuff.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:16:08.940
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
You know, it would be a really interesting, I don't know if there are any researchers
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:16:11.660
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
out there who are doing this type of work.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:16:14.940
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Wouldn't it be so cool to tie your emotional expressions while you're, say, listening
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:16:17.340
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
to a podcast interview and then 30 days later interview people and say, hey, what do you
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:16:23.500
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
remember?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:16:30.620
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
You've watched this 30 days ago.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:16:31.340
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like, what stuck with you?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:16:33.420
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And then see if there's any, there ought to be maybe, there ought to be some correlation
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:16:34.620
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
between these emotional experiences and, yeah, what you, what stays with you.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:16:38.140
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So the one guy listening now on the beach in Brazil, please record a video of yourself
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:16:46.140
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
listening to this and send it to me and then I'll interview you 30 days from now.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:16:51.660
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, that'd be great.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:16:55.900
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It'll be statistically significant to you.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:16:58.700
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, I know one, but, you know, yeah, yeah, I think that's really fascinating.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:17:00.620
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I think that's, that kind of holds the key to a future where entertainment or content
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:17:06.940
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
is both entertaining and, I don't know, makes you better, empowering in some way.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:17:16.460
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So figuring out, like, showing people stuff that entertains them, but also they're happy
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:17:25.180
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
they watched 30 days from now because they've become a better person because of it.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:17:32.540
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Well, you know, okay, not to riff on this topic for too long, but I have two children,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:17:37.420
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:17:41.900
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And I see my role as a parent as like a chief opportunity officer.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:17:42.860
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like I am responsible for exposing them to all sorts of things in the world.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:17:46.860
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And, but often I have no idea of knowing, like, what stuck, like, what was, you know,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:17:50.780
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
is this actually going to be transformative, you know, for them 10 years down the line?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:17:56.300
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And I wish there was a way to quantify these experiences.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:18:00.220
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like, are they, I can tell in the moment if they're engaging, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:18:03.660
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I can tell, but it's really hard to know if they're going to remember them 10 years
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:18:08.060
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
from now or if it's going to.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:18:12.540
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, that one is weird because it seems like kids remember the weirdest things.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:18:15.100
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I've seen parents do incredible stuff for their kids and they don't remember any of
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:18:19.500
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
that.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:18:23.580
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
They remember some tiny, small, sweet thing a parent did.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:18:23.820
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Right.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:18:27.260
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like some...
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:18:27.740
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like they took you to, like, this amazing country vacation, blah, blah, blah, blah.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:18:28.380
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
No, whatever.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:18:32.540
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And then there'll be, like, some, like, stuffed toy you got or some, or the new PlayStation
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:18:33.180
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
or something or some silly little thing.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:18:38.060
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So I think they just, like, they were designed that way.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:18:41.100
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
They want to mess with your head.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:18:44.940
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
But definitely kids are very impacted by, it seems like, sort of negative events.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:18:46.220
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So minimizing the number of negative events is important, but not too much, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:18:53.260
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Right.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:18:58.700
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
You can't, you can't just, like, you know, there's still discipline and challenge and
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:18:59.180
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
all those kinds of things.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:19:04.300
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So...
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:19:05.260
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
You want some adversity for sure.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:19:05.740
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So, yeah, I mean, I'm definitely, when I have kids, I'm going to drive them out into
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:19:07.660
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
the woods.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:19:11.180
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Okay.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:19:11.980
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And then they have to survive and make, figure out how to make their way back home, like,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:19:12.700
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
20 miles out.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:19:17.900
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Okay.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:19:18.940
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:19:19.660
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And after that, we can go for ice cream.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:19:20.380
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Okay.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:19:22.300
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Anyway, I'm working on this whole parenting thing.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:19:23.100
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I haven't figured it out.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:19:26.300
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Okay.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:19:27.100
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
What were we talking about?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:19:28.540
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yes, Effectiva, the problem of emotion, of emotion detection.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:19:29.660
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So there's some people, maybe we can just speak to that a little more, where there's
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:19:37.580
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
folks like Lisa Feldman Barrett that challenge this idea that emotion could be fully detected
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:19:41.260
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
or even well detected from the human face, that there's so much more to emotion.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:19:49.820
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
What do you think about ideas like hers, criticism like hers?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:19:55.100
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, I actually agree with a lot of Lisa's criticisms.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:19:59.820
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So even my PhD worked, like, 20 plus years ago now.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:20:03.820
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Time flies when you're having fun.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:20:07.980
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I know, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:20:12.620