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Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So you have to really, really make sure that everything you add to the car makes sense
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:37:36.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
financially.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:37:40.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So anyway, is this new industry, especially at this scale of SmartEye, does it hold any
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:37:41.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
lessons for you?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:37:49.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, I think it is a very tough market to penetrate, but once you're in, it's awesome
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:37:50.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
because once you're in, you're designed into these car models for like somewhere between
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:37:56.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
five to seven years, which is awesome.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:38:00.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And you just, once they're on the road, you just get paid a royalty fee per vehicle.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:38:02.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So it's a high barrier to entry, but once you're in, it's amazing.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:38:07.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I think the thing that I struggle the most with in this industry is the time to market.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:38:11.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So often we're asked to lock or do a code freeze two years before the car is going to
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:38:16.620
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
be on the road.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:38:22.440
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I'm like, guys, like, do you understand the pace with which technology moves?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:38:23.440
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So I think car companies are really trying to make the Tesla, the Tesla transition to
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:38:28.160
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
become more of a software driven architecture.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:38:35.280
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And that's hard for many.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:38:39.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's just the cultural change.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:38:41.100
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I mean, I'm sure you've experienced that, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:38:42.320
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Oh, definitely, I think one of the biggest inventions or imperatives created by Tesla
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:38:43.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
is like to me personally, okay, people are going to complain about this, but I know electric
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:38:51.040
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
vehicle, I know autopilot AI stuff.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:38:56.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
To me, the software over there, software updates is like the biggest revolution in cars.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:38:59.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And it is extremely difficult to switch to that because it is a culture shift.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:39:06.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
At first, especially if you're not comfortable with it, it seems dangerous.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:39:12.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like there's a, there's an approach to cars is so safety focused for so many decades that
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:39:17.320
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
like, what do you mean we dynamically change code?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:39:23.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
The whole point is you have a thing that you test, like, and like, it's not reliable because
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:39:27.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
do you know how much it costs if we have to recall this cars, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:39:36.600
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
There's a, there's a, and there's an understandable obsession with safety, but the downside of
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:39:41.320
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
an obsession with safety is the same as with being obsessed with safety as a parent is
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:39:47.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
like, if you do that too much, you limit the potential development and the flourishing
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:39:54.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
of in that particular aspect human being, when this particular aspect, the software,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:40:00.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
the artificial neural network of it.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:40:04.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And but it's tough to do.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:40:07.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's really tough to do culturally and technically like the deployment, the mass deployment of
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:40:09.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
software is really, really difficult, but I hope that's where the industry is doing.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:40:14.080
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
One of the reasons I really want Tesla to succeed is exactly about that point.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:40:18.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Not autopilot, not the electrical vehicle, but the softwareization of basically everything
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:40:21.700
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
but cars, especially because to me, that's actually going to increase two things, increase
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:40:28.440
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
safety because you can update much faster, but also increase the effectiveness of folks
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:40:33.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
like you who dream about enriching the human experience with AI because you can just like,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:40:40.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
there's a feature, like you want like a new emoji or whatever, like the way TikTok releases
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:40:47.320
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
filters, you can just release that for in car, in car stuff.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:40:51.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So, but yeah, that, that, that's definitely.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:40:55.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
One of the use cases we're looking into is once you know the sentiment of the passengers
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:40:59.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
in the vehicle, you can optimize the temperature in the car.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:41:05.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
You can change the lighting, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:41:08.800
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So if the backseat passengers are falling asleep, you can dim the lights, you can lower
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:41:10.440
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
the music, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:41:14.440
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
You can do all sorts of things.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:41:15.440
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:41:17.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I mean, of course you could do that kind of stuff with a two year delay, but it's tougher.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:41:18.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Right.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:41:23.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:41:24.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Do you think, do you think a Tesla or Waymo or some of these companies that are doing
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:41:25.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
semi or fully autonomous driving should be doing driver sensing?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:41:30.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yes.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:41:35.800
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Are you thinking about that kind of stuff?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:41:36.800
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So not just how we can enhance the in cab experience for cars that are manly driven,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:41:39.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
but the ones that are increasingly more autonomously driven.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:41:43.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yes.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:41:47.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So if we fast forward to the universe where it's fully autonomous, I think interior sensing
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:41:48.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
becomes extremely important because the role of the driver isn't just to drive.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:41:53.080
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
If you think about it, the driver almost manages, manages the dynamics within a vehicle.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:41:57.160
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And so who's going to play that role when it's an autonomous car?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:42:02.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
We want a solution that is able to say, Oh my God, like, you know, Lex is bored to death
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:42:06.120
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
cause the car's moving way too slow.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:42:11.800
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Let's engage Lex or Rana's freaking out because she doesn't trust this vehicle yet.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:42:13.700
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So let's tell Rana like a little bit more information about the route or, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:42:18.040
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So I think, or somebody's having a heart attack in the car, like you need interior sensing
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:42:22.420
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
and fully autonomous vehicles.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:42:27.220
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
But with semi autonomous vehicles, I think it's, I think it's really key to have driver
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:42:29.420
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
monitoring because semi autonomous means that sometimes the car is in charge.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:42:34.100
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Sometimes the driver is in charge or the copilot, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:42:39.120
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And you need this, you need both systems to be on the same page.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:42:41.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
You need to know the car needs to know if the driver's asleep before it transitions
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:42:44.800
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
control over to the driver.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:42:49.560
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And sometimes if the driver's too tired, the car can say, I'm going to be a better driver
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:42:51.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
than you are right now.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:42:56.600
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I'm taking control over.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:42:57.600
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So this dynamic, this dance is so key and you can't do that without driver sensing.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:42:58.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:43:03.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
There's a disagreement for the longest time I've had with Elon that this is obvious that
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:43:04.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
this should be in the Tesla from day one.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:43:07.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And it's obvious that driver sensing is not a hindrance.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:43:10.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's not obvious.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:43:13.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I should be careful because having studied this problem, nothing is really obvious, but
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:43:15.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
it seems very likely a driver sensing is not a hindrance to an experience.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:43:22.300
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's only enriching to the experience and likely increases the safety.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:43:26.620
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
That said, it is very surprising to me just having studied semi autonomous driving, how
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:43:34.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
well humans are able to manage that dance because it was the intuition before you were
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:43:42.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
doing that kind of thing that humans will become just incredibly distracted.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:43:47.800
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
They would just like let the thing do its thing, but they're able to, you know, cause
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:43:54.080
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
it is life and death and they're able to manage that somehow.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:43:57.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
But that said, there's no reason not to have driver sensing on top of that.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:44:01.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I feel like that's going to allow you to do that dance that you're currently doing without
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:44:04.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
driver sensing, except touching the steering wheel to do that even better.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:44:11.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I mean, the possibilities are endless and the machine learning possibilities are endless.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:44:15.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's such a beautiful, it's also a constrained environment so you could do a much more effectively
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:44:20.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
than you can with the external environment, external environment is full of weird edge
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#01:44:26.160