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Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yes, 100%.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:09:04.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So it always seems early until it's not, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:09:09.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Right, right, right.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:09:12.160
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I think the time, I definitely think that the time is now, like this decade for social
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:09:13.160
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
robots.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:09:24.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Whether the humanoid form is right, I don't think so, no.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:09:25.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I don't, I think the, like if we just look at Jibo as an example, I feel like most of
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:09:29.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
the problem, the challenge, the opportunity of social connection between an AI system
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:09:40.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
and a human being does not require you to also solve the problem of robot manipulation
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:09:46.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
and bipedal mobility.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:09:52.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So I think you could do that with just a screen, honestly, but there's something about the
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:09:55.320
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
interface of Jibo where it can rotate and so on that's also compelling.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:09:59.980
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
But you get to see all these robot companies that fail, incredible companies like Jibo
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:10:03.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
and even, I mean, the iRobot in some sense is a big success story that it was able to
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:10:09.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
find a niche thing and focus on it, but in some sense it's not a success story because
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:10:17.600
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
they didn't build any other robot, like any other, it didn't expand into all kinds of
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:10:24.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
robotics.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:10:30.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like once you're in the home, maybe that's what happens with Amazon is they'll flourish
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:10:31.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
into all kinds of other robots.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:10:34.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
But do you have a sense, by the way, why it's so difficult to build a robotics company?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:10:37.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like why so many companies have failed?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:10:43.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I think it's like you're building a vertical stack, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:10:47.080
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like you are building the hardware plus the software and you find you have to do this
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:10:50.780
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
at a cost that makes sense.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:10:54.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So I think Jibo was retailing at like, I don't know, like $800, like $700, $800, which for
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:10:56.040
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
the use case, right, there's a dissonance there.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:11:05.080
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's too high.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:11:10.020
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So I think cost of building the whole platform in a way that is affordable for what value
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:11:11.020
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
it's bringing, I think that's a challenge.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:11:20.380
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I think for these home robots that are going to help you do stuff around the home, that's
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:11:23.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
a challenge too, like the mobility piece of it.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:11:30.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
That's hard.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:11:33.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Well, one of the things I'm really excited with Tesla Bot is the people working on it.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:11:34.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And that's probably the criticism I would apply to some of the other folks who worked
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:11:40.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
on social robots is the people working on Tesla Bot know how to, they're focused on
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:11:44.560
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
and know how to do mass manufacture and create a product that's super cheap.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:11:50.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Very cool.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:11:54.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
That's the focus.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:11:55.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
The engineering focus isn't, I would say that you can also criticize them for that, is they're
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:11:56.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
not focused on the experience of the robot.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:12:00.480
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
They're focused on how to get this thing to do the basic stuff that the humanoid form
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:12:03.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
requires to do it as cheap as possible.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:12:09.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Then the fewest number of actuators, the fewest numbers of motors, the increasing efficiency,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:12:13.560
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
they decrease the weight, all that kind of stuff.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:12:18.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So that's really interesting.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:12:20.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I would say that Jibo and all those folks, they focus on the design, the experience,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:12:21.600
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
all of that, and it's secondary how to manufacture.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:12:26.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Right.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:12:29.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So you have to think like the Tesla Bot folks from first principles, what is the fewest
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:12:30.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
number of components, the cheapest components, how can I build it as much in house as possible
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:12:36.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
without having to consider all the complexities of a supply chain, all that kind of stuff.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:12:41.720
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It's interesting.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:12:47.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Because if you have to build a robotics company, you're not building one robot, you're building
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:12:48.680
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
hopefully millions of robots, you have to figure out how to do that where the final
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:12:54.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
thing, I mean, if it's Jibo type of robot, is there a reason why Jibo, like we can have
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:12:58.600
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
this lengthy discussion, is there a reason why Jibo has to be over $100?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:13:04.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It shouldn't be.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:13:08.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Right.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:13:09.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like the basic components.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:13:10.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Right.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:13:11.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Components of it.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:13:12.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Right.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:13:13.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like you could start to actually discuss like, okay, what is the essential thing about Jibo?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:13:14.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
How much, what is the cheapest way I can have a screen?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:13:19.080
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
What's the cheapest way I can have a rotating base?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:13:21.440
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Right.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:13:23.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
All that kind of stuff.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:13:24.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Right, get down, continuously drive down costs.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:13:25.760
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Speaking of which, you have launched an extremely successful companies, you have helped others,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:13:29.960
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
you've invested in companies.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:13:35.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Can you give advice on how to start a successful company?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:13:37.920
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I would say have a problem that you really, really, really want to solve, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:13:44.160
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Something that you're deeply passionate about.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:13:48.780
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And honestly, take the first step.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:13:53.800
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like that's often the hardest.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:13:55.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
And don't overthink it.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:13:58.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like, you know, like this idea of a minimum viable product or a minimum viable version
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:13:59.520
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
of an idea, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:14:04.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like, yes, you're thinking about this, like a humongous, like super elegant, super beautiful
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:14:05.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
thing.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:14:09.160
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
What, like reduce it to the littlest thing you can bring to market that can solve a problem
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:14:10.160
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
or that can, you know, that can help address a pain point that somebody has.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:14:14.640
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
They often tell you, like, start with a customer of one, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:14:20.880
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
If you can solve a problem for one person, then there's probably going to be yourself
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:14:24.320
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
or some other person.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:14:28.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Right.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:14:29.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Pick a person.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:14:30.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Exactly.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:14:31.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It could be you.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:14:32.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Yeah, that's actually often a good sign that if you enjoy a thing, enjoy a thing where
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:14:33.400
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
you have a specific problem that you'd like to solve, that's a good, that's a good end
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:14:37.240
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
of one to focus on.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:14:41.000
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
What else, what else is there to actually step one is the hardest, but there's other
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:14:43.600
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
steps as well, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:14:49.360
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
I also think like who you bring around the table early on is so key, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:14:51.200
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
Like being clear on, on what I call like your core values or your North Star.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:14:58.080
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
It might sound fluffy, but actually it's not.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:15:02.440
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
So and Roz and I feel like we did that very early on.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:15:04.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
We sat around her kitchen table and we said, okay, there's so many applications of this
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:15:08.840
Rana el Kaliouby: Emotion AI, Social Robots, and Self-Driving Cars | Lex Fridman Podcast #322
technology.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0322-large.html#02:15:13.040