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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
I never had anyone put it like that,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:02:11.220
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
but it makes a lot of sense.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:02:12.740
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Yeah, you know, fear Phil Ivey,
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
and then with me, it's fine, don't worry,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:02:15.500
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
I'll take your money, but you're gonna enjoy it.
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
It's great.
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
So that's what the talking at the table is about,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:02:19.820
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
is getting to be relaxed and get some of that gray area
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
between the conscious and the subconscious
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
to reveal something.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:02:28.420
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Yeah, there's that too, and also just, you know,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:02:29.380
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
and this is just part of who I am anyway,
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
like I like to talk to people,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:02:32.680
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
but one of the byproducts is the more I know about you,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:02:34.060
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
the more I likely know about how you think
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
about different situations, right?
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
So what do you do for a living?
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Oh, I'm a lawyer, I defend criminals.
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Okay, so this guy probably spends a lot of his time
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
twisting the truth, trying to find, you know,
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
and then, so then, you know, you already have a mindset
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
of like, this guy might be more likely to bluff
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:02:50.340
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
or he's probably comfortable doing that.
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Very subtle things like that.
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
And you start to pick up cues on what nervousness looks like
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
for this person, what the nervousness communicates,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:03:00.040
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
all that kind of stuff.
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
So we're talking about physical tells here.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:03:03.620
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Yeah, physical tells is a secondary thing.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:03:05.620
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
I was more specific like player profiling, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:03:07.460
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
And sort of understanding the type of mind
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:03:10.500
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
that I'm dealing with, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:03:12.180
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
So again, somebody who's a lawyer is used to trying,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:03:14.300
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
is fine with being deceptive as part of a game, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:03:17.900
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Whereas maybe somebody who's a Sunday school teacher
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:03:21.420
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
and, you know, they don't feel comfortable,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:03:23.800
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
maybe they think bluffing might be dishonest, right?
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
So they're less likely to try some shenanigans against you.
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
So, and then the other thing too is,
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
what type of person is this in terms of their, you know,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:03:33.340
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
like view on life, right?
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Are they positive?
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Do they feel like things go their way or they're not, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:03:40.900
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
There's those people that always, well, of course I lost,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:03:44.040
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
I always lose with this hand.
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
And those types of people you can manipulate
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:03:47.980
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
because when a card comes,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:03:50.220
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
that you don't have them beat, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:03:52.020
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
But you can pretend because they'll believe it.
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Like, of course you beat me.
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
So you bet all your chips against them,
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
knowing that you can scare them
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
because they already feel like they're gonna lose.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:04:00.600
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
The inherent, like the cynicism.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:04:03.780
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Exactly.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:04:05.980
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Cynicism is easier to play against
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:04:06.820
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
because you can convince them that their cards suck.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:04:08.360
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Yeah, when somebody believes that they're a loser
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:04:10.740
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
or they're unlucky, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:04:12.660
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
And that bad things happen to them always
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:04:14.140
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
and they never catch a break.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:04:16.100
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Well, you know, you can just help them make it true.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:04:17.540
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
What do you think about the rounders Teddy KGB
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:04:21.980
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
when he does the Oreo tell?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:04:24.900
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Do players at the high level communicate that kind of stuff?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:04:26.980
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Do you think it's realistic to be able to have a tell
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:04:30.220
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
like this that's partially subconscious?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:04:31.940
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
So first of all, I love Brian Koppelman who made the film.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:04:34.460
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
And I think what they were going for
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:04:37.420
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
is something obvious to the general public, right?
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:04:39.380
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Like, okay, it's very clear, you know, he eats the cookie,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:04:41.900
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
he doesn't eat the cookie and it means one or the other.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:04:44.020
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
At the highest levels, something that, you know, blatant,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:04:46.060
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
you're not gonna find.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:04:50.060
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
You're gonna find a lot more subtle things,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:04:51.000
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
maybe with posture or timing or, you know,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:04:52.540
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
different things like that.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:04:55.420
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
But at the lower levels, you know, you might see some,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:04:56.380
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
you might see, you know, with a lot of people
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:05:00.340
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
when they're in a hand and they've bet,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:05:02.340
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
whether they drink water in the hand
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:05:03.940
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
is going to tell you something generally speaking.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:05:06.100
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
It's such an intimate part of the human experience
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
that I feel like if you have food,
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
you're gonna reveal something about yourself
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
through the way you eat.
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
I feel like that's a dangerous thing
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
to have at the table.
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Well, the thing is, generally speaking,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:05:16.460
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
people don't eat food in the middle of a hand.
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
Like they're not gonna bet and then just like grab a burger.
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
What they will do though is, you know,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:05:23.100
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
they bet and it's up to you and then they're,
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
whether they're, you know, uncomfortable
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
or they do it unconsciously,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:05:28.280
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
they just want to do something
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
to make themselves look relaxed or whatever.
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
And then, you know, they grab a water
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Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
where they don't really need it in that moment,
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:05:34.420
Daniel Negreanu: Poker | Lex Fridman Podcast #324
but they're trying to take your mind off of the situation.
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0324-large.html#00:05:35.900