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Because I have to give a station break. We're talking about dieting this hour on TALK OF THE NATION: SCIENCE FRIDAY from NPR News with Gina Kolata, author of "Rethinking Thin" and telling a great story that I had interrupt about... | because i have to give a. station break we're talking about dieting this hour on; talk of the nation: science friday from npr news. with gina kolata. author of "rethinking thin" and telling a great story that i had interrupt | Because I have to give. a station break We're talking about dieting this, hour on TALK OF THE NATION: SCIENCE FRIDAY from NPR. News, with Gina Kolata, author of "Rethinking Thin" and telling a great. story that I had interrupt; | because i have to give a station break. we're talking about dieting this hour on talk of the nation: science friday from npr news with gina kolata, author of "rethinking thin" and telling a great story that i had interrupt about... |
Sorry. | sorry. | ||
No. No. No. This is a great story because I have never heard the study myself either. | no no no this is a great. story because i have never heard the study myself | No No No This is a great story because I. have never heard the study myself | no. no. no. this is a great story because i have never heard the study myself either. |
No one had. No one. It's an amazing study. | no one had no one it's an amazing | No one had No one It's an amazing | no one had. no one. it's an amazing study. |
And you heard the study where they've tried everything with these kids. | and you heard the study where they've tried everything with these | And you heard the study where they've tried everything with these | and you heard the study where they've tried everything with these kids. |
Two studies. | two | Two | two studies. |
Two studies. And nothing worked. | two studies and nothing | Two studies And nothing | two studies. and nothing worked. |
Nothing worked. | nothing, | Nothing | nothing worked. |
And you went back to the researcher and he said you're the first person asking about it. | and you went back to the researcher and he said you're the first person asking about | And you went, back to the researcher and he said you're the; first person. asking. about | and you went back to the researcher and he said you're the first person asking about it. |
That's what it was. It was amazing. | that's what it was it was | That's what it was It was | that's what it was. it was amazing. |
And continue. | and, | And | and continue. |
Well, I asked a statistician. | well i asked a | Well I asked a | well, i asked a statistician. |
Yeah. | yeah. | ||
Well, there's a lot of study. | well there's a lot of | Well there's. a lot of | well, there's a lot of study. |
I said is this amazing or what? Here are these two studies, millions and millions. And one of them cost $20 million - gigantic studies -and nobody ever - even the government, that did it, never talks about it. And then when I asked them what to do, they say just get everybody - obviously, it wasn't enough. You have to ... | i said is this amazing or what? here are these two studies millions and. millions and. one. of them cost $20 million - gigantic studies, -and nobody, ever - even. the government that, did; it never talks about it and then when i asked them what to do they say just get everybody - obviously it wasn't enough, you have to... | I said is this amazing or what? Here are these two studies millions and millions And one of them cost $20 million, - gigantic studies, -and nobody ever - even the government that did. it never talks about it And, then when I asked, them, what to do they say just get everybody - obviously it wasn't enough You have to do... | i said is this amazing or what? here are these two studies, millions and millions. and one of them cost $20 million - gigantic studies -and nobody ever - even the government, that did it, never talks about it. and then when i asked them what to do, they say just get everybody - obviously, it wasn't enough. you have to ... |
Of course. | of | Of | of course. |
He said it reminds him of a study - it was a study that was done in the 1800s where a guy really believed that if you bleed people with leeches, it would cure tuberculosis or something - pneumonia - to cure pneumonia. So he did a study, a nice rigorous study, and the leeches didn't help. So his answer was you have to b... | he said it; reminds him of a study. - it was a study. that was done in the 1800s where, a guy really believed that if you bleed people with leeches it would cure tuberculosis or something - pneumonia - to cure; pneumonia so he did a study a nice rigorous study and the. leeches didn't help so his answer was you have to ... | He. said it reminds him of a study - it was a study, that was done in the 1800s where a guy really believed that. if you bleed people with leeches it would cure tuberculosis or something - pneumonia - to cure pneumonia So he did a study a nice rigorous study, and the leeches didn't help So his answer was you have to bl... | he said it reminds him of a study - it was a study that was done in the 1800s where a guy really believed that if you bleed people with leeches, it would cure tuberculosis or something - pneumonia - to cure pneumonia. so he did a study, a nice rigorous study, and the leeches didn't help. so his answer was you have to b... |
Things haven't changed. | things haven't | Things haven't | things haven't changed. |
Yes, like the leeches. | yes like the | Yes like the | yes, like the leeches. |
Wow. Wow. | wow | Wow | wow. wow. |
I mean, maybe doing more would help but you got to show that. You can't assume. | i mean maybe doing more would help but. you got. to, show that you can't | I mean maybe doing more would help but you got to show that You can't | i mean, maybe doing more would help but you got to show that. you can't assume. |
But we have all our - all our policies are based on these kinds... | but we have all our - all our policies, are. based on these | But we have all our - all our policies are based on, these | but we have all our - all our policies are based on these kinds... |
I know. They are all based on it. | i know, they are all based on | I know, They are all based on | i know. they are all based on it. |
They were all based on if we just do the right thing and... | they were all based on if we just do the right thing | They were all based on if we just do. the right thing | they were all based on if we just do the right thing and... |
Right. Right. | right; | Right, | right. right. |
...then you're saying, doesn't matter what you do. | ...then, you're saying, doesn't matter what, you | ...then you're saying doesn't, matter what you | ...then you're saying, doesn't matter what you do. |
It didn't matter. | it didn't | It didn't | it didn't matter. |
It's going to - it's not going. | it's. going to, - it's not | It's going to - it's not, | it's going to - it's not going. |
Well, there is something in the environment that made people get fatter now than they used to be. Now, we're also healthier than we used to be. Every major disease is on the wane. People are getting them later. Disabilities are down. People are living longer. People are definitely healthier than they used to be. | well there is something in the environment that made people get fatter now than they used to, be now we're also healthier than we, used to be every major disease. is on the wane people are getting them later disabilities are down people are living longer people, are definitely healthier than they used to | Well there is, something in. the environment that, made people. get fatter now than they used to be Now we're also healthier, than we used to be Every major disease is on the wane People are getting them later Disabilities are down People are living longer People are definitely healthier than they used to | well, there is something in the environment that made people get fatter now than they used to be. now, we're also healthier than we used to be. every major disease is on the wane. people are getting them later. disabilities are down. people are living longer. people are definitely healthier than they used to be. |
One researcher at the Centers for Disease Control told me that he was at this photography exhibit with some colleagues. And they saw this picture of these kids, they were coal miners around the early 1900s. And his colleagues looked at them and said, look, they are thin. He said, damn right, they're thin. But you think... | one, researcher at the centers for disease control told me that he, was at this photography, exhibit with. some colleagues and they saw this picture, of these kids they were coal miners around the early 1900s and his colleagues. looked, at them and said look. they are thin he said damn right they're thin. but you think... | One researcher at the Centers. for Disease Control told me that he was at this photography exhibit with some colleagues And they saw this picture; of these kids they were coal miners around the early 1900s. And his colleagues looked at them and said look they are, thin He; said damn right they're thin But you think the... | one researcher at the centers for disease control told me that he was at this photography exhibit with some colleagues. and they saw this picture of these kids, they were coal miners around the early 1900s. and his colleagues looked at them and said, look, they are thin. he said, damn right, they're thin. but you think... |
All right, we're going to take a break. Come back to talk more with Gina Kolata, author of "Rethinking Thin: The New Science of Weight Loss - and the Myths and Realities of Dieting." Boy, we've busted a couple of myths today. I learned something new. I think you did. Stay with us, we'll be right back after this short b... | all. right we're, going, to take, a break come back to talk more with gina kolata author of "rethinking thin: the new science of weight loss - and the myths and realities of dieting" boy we've busted a couple of myths today i learned something new i think you did stay with us we'll be right, back after this short | All right. we're going to take a break Come back to talk more with. Gina Kolata author of. "Rethinking Thin: The New Science of Weight Loss - and the Myths and Realities of Dieting" Boy. we've busted a. couple of myths today I learned something new I think you did Stay with us we'll be right back after this short | all right, we're going to take a break. come back to talk more with gina kolata, author of "rethinking thin: the new science of weight loss - and the myths and realities of dieting." boy, we've busted a couple of myths today. i learned something new. i think you did. stay with us, we'll be right back after this short b... |
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I'm Ira Flatow. This is TALK OF THE NATION: SCIENCE FRIDAY from NPR News. | i'm. ira flatow. this is talk of the nation: science friday from. npr | I'm Ira Flatow This is TALK OF THE NATION: SCIENCE FRIDAY from NPR | i'm ira flatow. this is talk of the nation: science friday from npr news. |
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You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION: SCIENCE FRIDAY. I'm Ira Flatow. We're talking this hour about weight loss with my guest, Gina Kolata, senior writer for the New York Times, author of "Rethinking Thin: The New Science of Weight Loss - and the Myths and Realities of Dieting." Our number, 1-800-989-8255. | you're listening to talk of the, nation: science friday i'm. ira flatow, we're talking this hour about, weight loss with my guest. gina; kolata senior writer for the; new york times author. of "rethinking thin: the new science of weight loss - and the myths, and realities of dieting" our number | You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION: SCIENCE FRIDAY I'm, Ira Flatow We're talking. this hour about weight loss with my guest, Gina Kolata. senior writer. for the New York Times author of "Rethinking Thin: The New Science of Weight Loss - and the. Myths and, Realities of. Dieting" Our number | you're listening to talk of the nation: science friday. i'm ira flatow. we're talking this hour about weight loss with my guest, gina kolata, senior writer for the new york times, author of "rethinking thin: the new science of weight loss - and the myths and realities of dieting." our number, 1-800-989-8255. |
Did you come up with any of your own hypotheses about being fat and whatever, about why all this may be - we may be seeing, you know, fatter kids and is there something going on out there? | did you come. up with any, of your own hypotheses about being fat and whatever about why all this may be - we may. be seeing you know fatter kids and is there something going on out | Did you come up with any of your, own hypotheses about being fat and whatever about why, all this may be - we may be seeing you, know fatter kids and. is there something going on out | did you come up with any of your own hypotheses about being fat and whatever, about why all this may be - we may be seeing, you know, fatter kids and is there something going on out there? |
Well, the main thing that I've discovered was how little is actually known. Because you could say, well, it's the environment. Then, what in the environment and when does it affect you? One thing that kind of surprised me was so many people now - and more and more, like everyday, I keep hearing about researchers who sa... | well the main thing that i've discovered was how little is. actually known because you could say well it's the environment. then what in the environment and, when does it affect, you? one thing that kind of surprised me was so many people now - and more and more like everyday. i keep hearing about researchers who say w... | Well the main thing, that I've discovered was. how little is actually known Because you could say well it's the, environment Then what in the environment and, when does it affect you? One, thing that kind of surprised me was so many people now; - and more and more like. everyday I keep hearing about researchers, who sa... | well, the main thing that i've discovered was how little is actually known. because you could say, well, it's the environment. then, what in the environment and when does it affect you? one thing that kind of surprised me was so many people now - and more and more, like everyday, i keep hearing about researchers who sa... |
And then, there's also, with animals, if you don't give them enough to eat during pregnancy, their kids tend - kids - their offspring tend to develop diabetes and get fat. And no one knows why again. But with people, there is this one sort of a grisly experiment. During World War II, in Holland, there is this - they ca... | and then there's also with animals if you don't give them enough to eat during pregnancy their kids tend - kids - their offspring tend to develop diabetes and. get fat, and no one knows why again but with people there is this one sort of a grisly experiment, during world war ii in holland there is this - they call it t... | And then there's also with animals if you don't give them enough to eat during pregnancy their kids tend - kids - their offspring tend to develop, diabetes and get fat And no one knows why again But, with people there is, this one sort of a grisly experiment; During World War II in Holland there is this - they call it ... | and then, there's also, with animals, if you don't give them enough to eat during pregnancy, their kids tend - kids - their offspring tend to develop diabetes and get fat. and no one knows why again. but with people, there is this one sort of a grisly experiment. during world war ii, in holland, there is this - they ca... |
Wow. | wow. | ||
So it's weird. I mean, it's so - people know that you can make a difference in lots of health things, including weight and diabetes by affecting various things in the environment that early on. So there... | so it's weird i mean it's so - people know that you can, make a difference in lots of health things including weight and diabetes by affecting various things in the environment that early on. so | So it's; weird I mean it's. so - people know, that you can make a difference in lots of health things including weight. and diabetes by affecting various things in the environment that. early on So | so it's weird. i mean, it's so - people know that you can make a difference in lots of health things, including weight and diabetes by affecting various things in the environment that early on. so there... |
When you're in the womb? | when you're in, the | When you're in the, | when you're in the womb? |
In the womb, yeah. | in the womb | In the, womb | in the womb, yeah. |
We know that with alcohol, certainly, right? | we know. that, with alcohol, certainly | We know that. with alcohol certainly | we know that with alcohol, certainly, right? |
Yeah. Right. Yeah. So here, if you say the environment made us fat, you say, well, when and what? If you start from the womb and you go all the way on from there, what's happening and when is it happening? It's just not clear. | yeah right yeah so here, if you say the environment made us fat. you; say well when and what? if you start from the womb and you go all the way on from there what's happening and when is it happening? it's. just not | Yeah, Right Yeah So here if you say the environment made us fat you say well when and what? If you start from the womb and. you, go all the way on from there what's happening and, when is it happening? It's just not | yeah. right. yeah. so here, if you say the environment made us fat, you say, well, when and what? if you start from the womb and you go all the way on from there, what's happening and when is it happening? it's just not clear. |
A lot of study. And especially in this in-the-womb stuff. | a lot, of study and especially in this in-the-womb | A, lot of study And especially in this in-the-womb | a lot of study. and especially in this in-the-womb stuff. |
Yes. | yes. | ||
Every time I look at my e-mail, seems like somebody else is doing an in-the-womb study, usually with animals, but they're all trying to sort of get at what could it be. Is there something that we didn't think about, some little trigger, because what many people are beginning to think is that once you start - once you'v... | every time i look at; my e-mail, seems like somebody else is doing an in-the-womb study usually with animals but they're all trying to sort, of get at what could it be is there something. that we didn't, think about some little trigger because what many people are beginning to think is that once; you start - once you'v... | Every time I look at my e-mail seems like somebody else is. doing an in-the-womb study usually with animals but they're, all trying to sort of get at what, could it be. Is there something that we didn't think about, some. little trigger because what many people; are beginning to think is that once you start - once you'... | every time i look at my e-mail, seems like somebody else is doing an in-the-womb study, usually with animals, but they're all trying to sort of get at what could it be. is there something that we didn't think about, some little trigger, because what many people are beginning to think is that once you start - once you'v... |
Right. | right. | ||
And you may change it then. So maybe it's an environment thing in adolescence. Who knows? It's really a mystery. | and you may change it then so maybe, it's an environment; thing. in adolescence who knows? it's really a. | And you. may; change it then So maybe it's an environment thing, in, adolescence Who knows? It's really a | and you may change it then. so maybe it's an environment thing in adolescence. who knows? it's really a mystery. |
So it may not just be a genetic thing is what you say. | so it may not just be a genetic thing is what you, | So it may not just be a genetic. thing is what you, | so it may not just be a genetic thing is what you say. |
Well, it probably isn't genetic, because genes didn't change that much. On the other hand, genes and environment interact. | well it. probably isn't genetic because genes didn't change that much on the other hand genes and environment | Well it probably isn't genetic because genes didn't change that much On the other; hand genes and environment, | well, it probably isn't genetic, because genes didn't change that much. on the other hand, genes and environment interact. |
Right. | right. | ||
And in the Civil War, the average height of a man was 5 feet 5. So genes didn't change, environment did. And our environment has changed but we have no - no one knows. We - I'm not a scientist. Scientists don't know what -they have lots of ideas, but they don't really know what did it. | and in the. civil war the average height of a man was 5 feet 5. so genes didn't change environment did and our environment has changed but; we have no - no one knows we - i'm not a scientist, scientists don't know what -they have lots of ideas but they don't really know what did | And in; the Civil War the average height of a man was 5 feet 5. So genes didn't change environment did And our environment has changed but we have no - no one knows We, - I'm not a scientist; Scientists don't know what -they have lots of ideas but they don't really know what did | and in the civil war, the average height of a man was 5 feet 5. so genes didn't change, environment did. and our environment has changed but we have no - no one knows. we - i'm not a scientist. scientists don't know what -they have lots of ideas, but they don't really know what did it. |
Is there some are you yourself would like to, you know, as a journalist, pursue? Would this be a good... | is there some are you yourself would like to, you; know as a journalist pursue? would this be a | Is there, some are you yourself would like to you. know as a journalist pursue? Would this be a, | is there some are you yourself would like to, you know, as a journalist, pursue? would this be a good... |
What I like to see - I just sit there and react. | what, i like to see - i just sit there and | What I like to see - I just sit there and | what i like to see - i just sit there and react. |
Well, if we have - you mentioned that you have this idea about the prenatal stage. | well if. we have - you mentioned that you have this idea about the prenatal | Well if we. have - you mentioned that you have this, idea, about the prenatal | well, if we have - you mentioned that you have this idea about the prenatal stage. |
Oh, no. I'm really fascinated with that. | oh no i'm really fascinated with | Oh no I'm really fascinated with | oh, no. i'm really fascinated with that. |
Yeah. | yeah. | ||
I would also love to see whether or not there really is kind of an Achilles heel to this - that's a horrible - that's like the wrong analogy. But if there's like a little weak link in this brain system that controls weight because - so there's two ideas about whether or not there'll ever be a magic pill to sort of let ... | i would also love to see whether or not there really is kind of an achilles. heel to this - that's a; horrible - that's like the wrong analogy but, if there's. like a little weak link in this brain system that controls weight because - so there's two ideas about, whether or not; there'll ever be a magic pill to sort of... | I would also love to see whether or not there really is kind of an Achilles heel to this - that's a horrible - that's like the wrong, analogy But if there's. like a little. weak link in this brain system that controls weight because, - so there's two ideas about. whether or not there'll ever be a magic pill to sort of ... | i would also love to see whether or not there really is kind of an achilles heel to this - that's a horrible - that's like the wrong analogy. but if there's like a little weak link in this brain system that controls weight because - so there's two ideas about whether or not there'll ever be a magic pill to sort of let ... |
So it may be almost impossible to ever really affect it, because it's so important for survival. You know, people don't - aren't supposed to starve to death or eat themselves to death. | so it may be almost impossible to ever really affect, it; because it's so important for survival you know people don't - aren't supposed to starve to death or, eat themselves to | So it may be almost impossible to ever, really affect it, because it's so important for survival You know people don't - aren't supposed to starve to death or eat themselves to | so it may be almost impossible to ever really affect it, because it's so important for survival. you know, people don't - aren't supposed to starve to death or eat themselves to death. |
The other is that if you were clever enough and you knocked out a few things at once, maybe you could tweak the system and control and then, sort of, lower the bodyweight range that people have. | the other is that, if. you, were clever enough and, you. knocked out a few things at once maybe you could tweak the system and control and then sort of, lower the, bodyweight range that people | The, other is that if. you were clever enough and you knocked out a few things at once maybe you could tweak the system; and control and then sort. of lower the bodyweight range that people | the other is that if you were clever enough and you knocked out a few things at once, maybe you could tweak the system and control and then, sort of, lower the bodyweight range that people have. |
Right. I want to thank you for taking time to be with us. A fascinating book - "Rethinking Thin: The New Science of Weight Loss - and the Myths and Realities of Dieting." Gina Kolata, always a pleasure. | right i want to thank you; for taking time to be with us a fascinating book - "rethinking thin: the, new science, of weight loss - and the myths and; realities of dieting" gina kolata always, a | Right I, want to thank you for taking time to be, with us A fascinating book - "Rethinking Thin: The New Science of Weight Loss - and the Myths. and Realities of Dieting" Gina Kolata always a | right. i want to thank you for taking time to be with us. a fascinating book - "rethinking thin: the new science of weight loss - and the myths and realities of dieting." gina kolata, always a pleasure. |
Thank you. It's great being here again, Ira. | thank you it's. great being here again | Thank, you It's great being here again | thank you. it's great being here again, ira. |
Thank you. Good luck with the book. | thank, you good luck with, the | Thank. you Good luck with the | thank you. good luck with the book. |
You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION/SCIENCE FRIDAY. I'm Ira Flatow. | you're listening to talk of the, nation/science friday i'm. ira | You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION/SCIENCE FRIDAY I'm Ira | you're listening to talk of the nation/science friday. i'm ira flatow. |
On December 30th, three months after the fiscal year had already begun, President Bush signed the last of the 2006 budget appropriations bills. Included was money for fighting the avian flu, for rebuilding New Orleans and for military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. How did science fare in all ... | on. december 30th three months after the fiscal year had already begun president bush signed the last of the 2006 budget appropriations bills, included was money for fighting; the avian flu for rebuilding new orleans and. for military operations in iraq and afghanistan how did science fare in all t... | On December 30th three months after the fiscal year; had already begun President Bush signed, the last. of, the 2006 budget appropriations bills Included. was money for fighting the avian flu for, rebuilding New Orleans and for military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan How did science fare in all... | on december 30th, three months after the fiscal year had already begun, president bush signed the last of the 2006 budget appropriations bills. included was money for fighting the avian flu, for rebuilding new orleans and for military operations in iraq and afghanistan. how did science fare in all ... |
Joining more now to talk more about it is someone who had been following the budget dealings very closely. Kei Koizumi is the director of the R&D Budget and Policy Program at the American Association for the Advancement of Science, the AAAS, in Washington. He joins us by phone. | joining more now to talk; more about it, is someone who had. been, following the budget dealings very closely. kei koizumi is the director, of the r&d budget, and policy program at the american association for the advancement of science the aaas, in washington he joins us by; | Joining more now. to; talk more about it is someone who had been following the budget. dealings very closely Kei Koizumi is, the director of the R&D Budget and Policy Program at the American Association for the Advancement of; Science the, AAAS in Washington He. joins us by | joining more now to talk more about it is someone who had been following the budget dealings very closely. kei koizumi is the director of the r&d budget and policy program at the american association for the advancement of science, the aaas, in washington. he joins us by phone. |
Thanks for talking with us today. | thanks for, talking with us | Thanks, for talking with us | thanks for talking with us today. |
Hi. Good afternoon. | hi good | Hi Good | hi. good afternoon. |
Hi. First, tell us what agencies are we talking about? Which ones are included when we talk about research and development budgets? | hi first tell us. what agencies are we talking. about? which ones are included; when we talk about research and, development | Hi First tell us what agencies are we talking about? Which; ones are included when we, talk about research, and development | hi. first, tell us what agencies are we talking about? which ones are included when we talk about research and development budgets? |
Well, a lot of agencies fund R&D in the federal government, about 20 different ones, and they range from people like NASA doing space R&D to the Defense Department, defense research, and the National Institutes of Health, which funds health research. And there are, of course, a lot of others. And ... | well a lot of agencies fund r&d in the federal government about 20 different ones and. they range from people like nasa, doing space. r&d to the defense department defense research and, the national institutes, of health which funds health research. and there are of course a lot of others and as y... | Well a lot of agencies fund R&D in the federal government about 20 different ones, and they range, from people. like NASA doing space R&D to the; Defense Department defense research and the National Institutes of Health which funds health research, And there are of course a lot of others And as yo... | well, a lot of agencies fund r&d in the federal government, about 20 different ones, and they range from people like nasa doing space r&d to the defense department, defense research, and the national institutes of health, which funds health research. and there are, of course, a lot of others. and ... |
And this is sort of surprising; at least NIH used to get a lot of money in increases. | and, this is sort of surprising at least nih used to get a lot of money in | And this is; sort of surprising at least NIH. used to get a lot of money in | and this is sort of surprising; at least nih used to get a lot of money in increases. |
It really does because, you know, I interviewed some of the survivors of the concentration camp. And Gerhard Mersiowsky(ph) was a 19-year-old boy, spared the gas chamber. And when you speak with someone like that, and you see the impact that Nazi ideology had on not only that individual but on this world, it really mak... | it really does, because you know i interviewed some of the survivors of the concentration camp and gerhard mersiowsky(ph) was a 19-year-old boy spared the gas chamber, and, when you speak with. someone like; that, and you see the, impact that. nazi ideology had; on not, only that individual but on this world it really,... | It really does because, you know I interviewed some of, the survivors of the concentration, camp And Gerhard Mersiowsky(ph) was a 19-year-old boy spared the; gas chamber And when you speak with someone like that. and you, see the impact that Nazi ideology had on not only that individual but on this world, it really mak... | it really does because, you know, i interviewed some of the survivors of the concentration camp. and gerhard mersiowsky(ph) was a 19-year-old boy, spared the gas chamber. and when you speak with someone like that, and you see the impact that nazi ideology had on not only that individual but on this world, it really mak... |
From the 1970s onward, those programs were basically stripped bare of regional talent. And the NFL now only comes calling when a rare athlete really stands out, like Aeneas Williams or Michael Strahan. But Michael Hurd says tonight's Hall of Fame ceremony is still a chance to be proud of the lasting legacy of historica... | from the 1970s onward. those programs were basically. stripped bare of regional talent and the. nfl, now only comes calling when a rare athlete really stands out like aeneas williams or michael strahan but michael hurd says tonight's. hall of fame ceremony is still a chance to be proud of the lasting legacy of historic... | From the 1970s onward those programs were. basically stripped bare of. regional talent And the NFL now only, comes calling when a rare athlete, really stands out like Aeneas Williams or Michael Strahan But Michael Hurd says tonight's Hall of Fame ceremony is still a chance to be proud of the lasting legacy of historica... | from the 1970s onward, those programs were basically stripped bare of regional talent. and the nfl now only comes calling when a rare athlete really stands out, like aeneas williams or michael strahan. but michael hurd says tonight's hall of fame ceremony is still a chance to be proud of the lasting legacy of historica... |
Wernher von Braun designed the rockets that took man to the moon. He also designed the Nazi rockets that killed thousands during World War II. Von Braun always portrayed himself as a reluctant Nazi, and completely unaware of the concentration camps. That was a lie. But instead of hanging at Nuremburg, von Braun and man... | wernher von; braun designed the rockets that, took man to the moon he also designed the nazi rockets. that killed thousands during world, war ii von braun always portrayed himself as a reluctant, nazi and; completely unaware of the concentration camps that was, a lie but instead of hanging, at nuremburg von braun and, ... | Wernher, von Braun designed the rockets that took man to the moon He also designed, the Nazi rockets that killed thousands during World, War II Von Braun always portrayed himself as a reluctant Nazi and completely unaware of the concentration camps That was a lie. But instead of hanging at Nuremburg von Braun and many ... | wernher von braun designed the rockets that took man to the moon. he also designed the nazi rockets that killed thousands during world war ii. von braun always portrayed himself as a reluctant nazi, and completely unaware of the concentration camps. that was a lie. but instead of hanging at nuremburg, von braun and man... |
This was thanks to a secret government program, revealed in detail in Annie Jacobsen's new book, "Operation Paperclip: The Secret Intelligence Program to Bring Nazi Scientists to America." Operation Paperclip began in the fall of 1944, when the advancing allies began to gather intelligence about Nazi weapons. | this was thanks to a secret government program revealed in. detail in annie. jacobsen's new. book "operation paperclip: the secret intelligence program to bring nazi scientists to america" operation paperclip began in the fall of 1944, when the advancing allies began to gather intelligence about nazi | This was thanks to a secret, government program revealed in detail in Annie Jacobsen's new book "Operation Paperclip: The, Secret Intelligence Program to Bring Nazi Scientists to America" Operation Paperclip began in the fall of 1944, when the advancing allies began to gather intelligence about Nazi | this was thanks to a secret government program, revealed in detail in annie jacobsen's new book, "operation paperclip: the secret intelligence program to bring nazi scientists to america." operation paperclip began in the fall of 1944, when the advancing allies began to gather intelligence about nazi weapons. |
This is a dark time. This is the fall of 1944. So it's just a few months after the landings at Normandy, and you've got allied forces making their way across the continent, headed toward Berlin and Munich. And with them, sort of scattered among the soldiers, are these small teams of scientific intelligence officers, an... | this is a. dark time this; is the fall of 1944. so it's just a few months, after the landings at normandy and you've got allied forces making their way across; the continent headed toward berlin and munich and; with them. sort of scattered among; the soldiers are these small teams of scientific intelligence officers an... | This is a dark time This is the fall of 1944. So it's just a few months after the landings at Normandy and you've got allied forces making their way across the continent headed toward Berlin and Munich And with them sort of scattered among the soldiers are these small teams of scientific intelligence, officers. and the... | this is a dark time. this is the fall of 1944. so it's just a few months after the landings at normandy, and you've got allied forces making their way across the continent, headed toward berlin and munich. and with them, sort of scattered among the soldiers, are these small teams of scientific intelligence officers, an... |
One example was they had no idea that Hitler had created this entire arsenal of nerve agents. They had no idea that Hitler was working on a bubonic plague weapon. That is really where Paperclip began, which was suddenly the Pentagon realizing, wait a minute, we need these weapons for ourselves. | one example, was they had no idea that hitler had created this entire arsenal of nerve agents they. had no idea that hitler was working on a bubonic plague weapon that is really where paperclip began which was suddenly the pentagon realizing wait a minute we need these weapons for | One, example was they had no idea that Hitler had created this entire arsenal of nerve agents They had no idea that Hitler was working on a bubonic plague weapon That is really where Paperclip began which was. suddenly the Pentagon realizing wait a minute we need these weapons for | one example was they had no idea that hitler had created this entire arsenal of nerve agents. they had no idea that hitler was working on a bubonic plague weapon. that is really where paperclip began, which was suddenly the pentagon realizing, wait a minute, we need these weapons for ourselves. |
And so realizing that to understand the Nazi science, they needed the Nazi scientists as well. | and so realizing that, to understand the nazi science they needed the nazi scientists as | And so realizing that to understand the Nazi science they needed the Nazi scientists as | and so realizing that to understand the nazi science, they needed the nazi scientists as well. |
Absolutely. And there begins the conundrum because it suddenly dawned on these military officers: Wait a minute, I've got Wernher von Braun right here. It was no longer a question of who should be hanged. It was a question of who should be hired. | absolutely and there begins the conundrum because it suddenly dawned on, these military officers: wait a. minute. i've got, wernher von braun right here, it was no longer a question of. who should be hanged it was a question of who should be | Absolutely And there begins the conundrum because it suddenly dawned on these military officers: Wait a minute I've got Wernher von Braun right here It was no longer a question of who should be hanged It was a question of who should be | absolutely. and there begins the conundrum because it suddenly dawned on these military officers: wait a minute, i've got wernher von braun right here. it was no longer a question of who should be hanged. it was a question of who should be hired. |
And that brings us, I guess, to the central, really nauseating moral tension of this book - which is that these experts, these scientists, are also pretty much ardent Nazis and people who were involved in the mass destruction in Europe, and the Final Solution of the Holocaust. So Paperclip has to figure out how to get ... | and. that brings us i guess to the central really. nauseating, moral tension of this book - which is that these experts these scientists are also pretty much ardent nazis and people who. were involved in the mass destruction in europe and the final solution, of the holocaust so paperclip has to figure out how to get th... | And that brings us I guess to the central really nauseating moral tension of this book - which is that these experts these scientists are also pretty much ardent Nazis and people who were involved in the mass destruction in Europe and the Final Solution of the Holocaust So Paperclip, has to figure out how to get these ... | and that brings us, i guess, to the central, really nauseating moral tension of this book - which is that these experts, these scientists, are also pretty much ardent nazis and people who were involved in the mass destruction in europe, and the final solution of the holocaust. so paperclip has to figure out how to get ... |
And there began a propaganda campaign by the U.S. government to whitewash the pasts of these scientists, who we very much knew were ardent Nazis. And it happened on a number of levels - from the bureaucrats in Army intelligence, who were asked to sort of rewrite the dossiers; on up to the generals in the Pentagon who f... | and there began a propaganda campaign by the u.s. government to whitewash the pasts of these scientists who we very much knew were ardent nazis and it happened on, a number of levels - from the bureaucrats in army, intelligence who were asked to sort of rewrite the dossiers on up to the generals in the pentagon who fla... | And there began a propaganda campaign by the U.S government to whitewash the pasts of these scientists who we very. much knew were ardent Nazis And it happened on a number of levels; - from the bureaucrats. in. Army intelligence who were asked, to sort of. rewrite the dossiers on. up to the generals in the Pentagon who... | and there began a propaganda campaign by the u.s. government to whitewash the pasts of these scientists, who we very much knew were ardent nazis. and it happened on a number of levels - from the bureaucrats in army intelligence, who were asked to sort of rewrite the dossiers; on up to the generals in the pentagon who f... |
And that's where it becomes very tricky and very nefarious. You have to be a Nazi ideologue to move up that chain of command so high. I mean, it's almost like someone who is, let's say, a hedge fund manager in the United States, trying to take the line that they don't believe in capitalism; you know, that they're just ... | and that's where it becomes very tricky. and very nefarious you have to be a nazi ideologue to. move up, that chain of command so high i mean it's. almost like someone who is. let's say a hedge fund manager in the united states trying to take the line that they don't believe in; capitalism you know that they're just tr... | And that's where it, becomes very tricky and very nefarious You have to be a Nazi ideologue to move up that chain of command so high I mean. it's almost like. someone who is let's say a hedge. fund manager in the United States trying to take the line that they don't, believe in capitalism you know that they're just try... | and that's where it becomes very tricky and very nefarious. you have to be a nazi ideologue to move up that chain of command so high. i mean, it's almost like someone who is, let's say, a hedge fund manager in the united states, trying to take the line that they don't believe in capitalism; you know, that they're just ... |
Let's talk about some of these men in particular. I think a great place to start would be with Wernher von Braun, who I considered him heroic when I was a kid because he was responsible for the rockets that took men to the moon. He said it was always really about the science. He was always thinking about space, and he ... | let's talk about. some of these men in particular i think a great place to start would be with wernher von, braun who i considered him heroic when i was a kid because he was responsible for. the rockets that took men to the. moon he said it was always really about, the science he was always thinking about; space and. h... | Let's talk about some of these, men in. particular I, think a great place to, start would be with Wernher von. Braun who, I considered him heroic when I was a kid because he was. responsible for the rockets, that took, men to the moon He said it was. always really about, the science, He was always thinking about. space... | let's talk about some of these men in particular. i think a great place to start would be with wernher von braun, who i considered him heroic when i was a kid because he was responsible for the rockets that took men to the moon. he said it was always really about the science. he was always thinking about space, and he ... |
I found otherwise. You know, he is a great example because you wonder where the deal with the devil really happened, in terms of his whitewashed past, because the U.S. government, NASA in particular, was so complicit in keeping his past hidden. And in doing the research, one discovers that, you know, not only was von B... | i found. otherwise you know. he is a great example; because. you wonder where the deal with the devil really happened in terms of, his whitewashed past because, the. u.s government nasa in particular was; so complicit in. keeping his past hidden. and, in doing the, research one discovers that you know not only was, von... | I found otherwise You know he is a great example because you wonder where; the deal with the devil really happened in terms of his whitewashed past because the U.S government NASA in particular was so. complicit in keeping his past hidden And in doing the. research one discovers, that you know not only was von Braun an... | i found otherwise. you know, he is a great example because you wonder where the deal with the devil really happened, in terms of his whitewashed past, because the u.s. government, nasa in particular, was so complicit in keeping his past hidden. and in doing the research, one discovers that, you know, not only was von b... |
And not only was he running the underground slave labor facility where his rockets were being built - he wasn't running the facility, but he was in charge of the science there - but when they were running low of good technicians, Wernher von Braun himself traveled nearby to the Buchenwald concentration camp, where he h... | and not only was he running the underground slave labor facility where his rockets were being, built - he wasn't running the facility but he was in charge of the science there - but when they were running low of good technicians wernher, von braun himself traveled nearby to; the buchenwald concentration camp where he h... | And not only. was he running, the underground slave labor, facility where his rockets, were being built - he wasn't running the facility but he was in, charge. of the science there - but, when they were running low, of good technicians Wernher von Braun himself traveled nearby to the Buchenwald concentration camp where... | and not only was he running the underground slave labor facility where his rockets were being built - he wasn't running the facility, but he was in charge of the science there - but when they were running low of good technicians, wernher von braun himself traveled nearby to the buchenwald concentration camp, where he h... |
And when you see that kind of activity during the war, and you have to imagine what he saw and what he knew, it's impossible to excuse him from his Nazi past. | and when you see that kind of activity during the war and you have to imagine what he. saw and what he knew it's impossible to excuse him from his. nazi | And when you see that kind of activity during the war and you have to imagine what. he saw and what he knew it's impossible to excuse him from his Nazi | and when you see that kind of activity during the war, and you have to imagine what he saw and what he knew, it's impossible to excuse him from his nazi past. |
Another thing that's really remarkable in this is that after this rush to acquire the secrets of Nazi biological and chemical weapons, there was a great push to get our own biological and chemical weapons program up and running, using these same men. | another thing that's really remarkable in this, is that after, this rush to acquire the secrets of nazi biological and chemical weapons there was a great push. to get our own biological and chemical weapons program up and running. using these same, | Another thing that's really, remarkable. in this is, that after this rush, to acquire the secrets of Nazi biological and chemical weapons there was a, great push to get our, own biological and chemical weapons program up and running using these same | another thing that's really remarkable in this is that after this rush to acquire the secrets of nazi biological and chemical weapons, there was a great push to get our own biological and chemical weapons program up and running, using these same men. |
And, you know, through the lens of history, this all seems like one tragedy compiled on another - when you consider that right now, you know, it's - Syria's chemical weapons are being destroyed at great expense; those are the chemical weapons that were developed by the Nazis. And I write about this at length, and locat... | and you know through the lens of history this all seems like one tragedy compiled on, another - when you consider that, right, now, you know it's - syria's chemical weapons are being destroyed at, great expense those are the chemical weapons that were developed by the nazis. and i write about this at length and located... | And. you know through the lens of history this all seems like one tragedy compiled, on another - when you consider that right now you know it's - Syria's chemical weapons are being destroyed at great expense those, are the chemical weapons that were developed by the Nazis And I write about this at length and located so... | and, you know, through the lens of history, this all seems like one tragedy compiled on another - when you consider that right now, you know, it's - syria's chemical weapons are being destroyed at great expense; those are the chemical weapons that were developed by the nazis. and i write about this at length, and locat... |
Another example was a Dr. Walter Schreiber, who was Himmler's right-hand man on his personal staff; also a chemist. And after the war, we rounded up this group of chemists, Nazi chemists, who had developed sarin gas and tabun gas. And we used their expertise to build up our arsenal, which only, you know, decades later ... | another example, was, a dr walter, schreiber who was himmler's right-hand man on his personal staff also a chemist and after the war we rounded up, this group of chemists nazi, chemists who had developed sarin gas, and, tabun gas. and we used their expertise to build up our arsenal which only you know decades later was... | Another example was a Dr Walter Schreiber who, was Himmler's right-hand man on his personal staff. also a chemist And after the war we rounded up this group of; chemists Nazi chemists. who had developed sarin gas and tabun gas And we used their expertise to build up our arsenal. which only you know; decades later was c... | another example was a dr. walter schreiber, who was himmler's right-hand man on his personal staff; also a chemist. and after the war, we rounded up this group of chemists, nazi chemists, who had developed sarin gas and tabun gas. and we used their expertise to build up our arsenal, which only, you know, decades later ... |
You see how the lives of these men play out. And, you know, you mentioned Dr. Schreiber. He ultimately had to leave America but died of natural causes in Argentina, in the end - right? | you see how the lives of these men play out and; you know you mentioned dr schreiber he ultimately had to leave america; but died of natural causes in argentina in the end, | You see how the lives, of these men play out And you know you mentioned Dr Schreiber, He ultimately had to leave America but died of natural causes, in Argentina in, the end | you see how the lives of these men play out. and, you know, you mentioned dr. schreiber. he ultimately had to leave america but died of natural causes in argentina, in the end - right? |
They all different trajectories. But none of them seemed to have been held accountable for what happened, and what they were involved in, during the war. And Dr. Benzinger, who was one of the Nazi doctors, came here. And when he died at the age of 90-something, he had a wonderful obituary in The New York Times, lauding... | they all different. trajectories but none of them seemed, to. have been held. accountable for what happened and what they were involved in during the war and dr benzinger who. was one of the nazi doctors came here and when he died; at the age of 90-something. he; had a wonderful obituary, in the new york times lauding ... | They all different trajectories But none of them seemed to have; been held accountable for what happened and what they. were involved in during the war And Dr, Benzinger who was one of the Nazi. doctors came here And when he died at the, age of 90-something he had a wonderful obituary in The New York Times lauding. him... | they all different trajectories. but none of them seemed to have been held accountable for what happened, and what they were involved in, during the war. and dr. benzinger, who was one of the nazi doctors, came here. and when he died at the age of 90-something, he had a wonderful obituary in the new york times, lauding... |
You talk about the sign that was over the Buchenwald gate - the concentration camp - Jedem das Seine, which is basically, "You Get What You Deserve." And it has - kind of a dark resonance for you, at the end of this book. | you talk about the sign that was over the buchenwald gate - the concentration camp - jedem das seine which is basically "you get what you deserve" and. it has - kind of a dark resonance for you, at the end of this | You talk about, the sign that was; over the Buchenwald gate - the concentration camp - Jedem das Seine which is basically "You; Get What; You Deserve" And it has - kind of, a dark resonance for you at the end of this. | you talk about the sign that was over the buchenwald gate - the concentration camp - jedem das seine, which is basically, "you get what you deserve." and it has - kind of a dark resonance for you, at the end of this book. |
Yeah, you know, what I'm learning from talking to current and former employees is that there's a deep conflict in Facebook. On the one hand, people feel really badly about Russian operatives and hate speech and extremists and God knows what else. The engineers and product managers are racing to fix it, working very lon... | yeah you; know what i'm learning, from talking to current and former employees is that there's a deep conflict in facebook on the one hand people feel really badly about russian operatives and hate speech and extremists and god knows what else, the engineers and product managers are racing to fix; it working very long ... | Yeah you know, what I'm learning from talking to current and. former employees is that there's a. deep conflict, in Facebook On the one hand people feel, really badly about. Russian operatives and hate speech and, extremists and God; knows what else The engineers and product. managers are racing to fix it working very,... | yeah, you know, what i'm learning from talking to current and former employees is that there's a deep conflict in facebook. on the one hand, people feel really badly about russian operatives and hate speech and extremists and god knows what else. the engineers and product managers are racing to fix it, working very lon... |
But that gets to the real question about Facebook's identity, right? Like, if it is just the platform where the stuff goes out, then they can say we - we're not responsible for it. But are they - are they a publisher? Are they subject to the same standards and ethics as a journalism organization would be? | but that gets to the real question about facebook's identity right? like if it is, just the platform where the stuff goes out. then they can. say we - we're not responsible for it but. are. they - are they a publisher? are they subject, to the same standards. and ethics as a journalism. organization would | But that gets to the real question about Facebook's identity right? Like if. it is just the platform where the stuff goes out then they can say we - we're not responsible for it But are they - are they a publisher? Are they subject to the. same standards and ethics as a journalism organization would | but that gets to the real question about facebook's identity, right? like, if it is just the platform where the stuff goes out, then they can say we - we're not responsible for it. but are they - are they a publisher? are they subject to the same standards and ethics as a journalism organization would be? |
You know, this is a really key point. Mark Zuckerberg maintains he's running a tech company, not a media company. And, you know, what I compare it to, at least in my own mind, is it's like a guy who builds a new, enormous office building that's got some whiz-bangy (ph) technology. And he says the rules that apply to re... | you know this is a really key point mark zuckerberg maintains he's running a tech company not a, media company and you know what i compare it to. at least in my. own mind is it's like a guy who builds a new. enormous; office building that's got some whiz-bangy (ph) technology and he says the rules that apply to regular... | You know this is a really key point Mark Zuckerberg maintains he's running a tech. company not a media company And you know what I compare it to at least in my own mind, is it's like a guy who builds a new enormous office. building. that's got some whiz-bangy (ph) technology And he says the rules that apply. to regular... | you know, this is a really key point. mark zuckerberg maintains he's running a tech company, not a media company. and, you know, what i compare it to, at least in my own mind, is it's like a guy who builds a new, enormous office building that's got some whiz-bangy (ph) technology. and he says the rules that apply to re... |
NPR's Aarti Shahani. Aarti, thanks so much for sharing your reporting with us. | npr's aarti shahani aarti. thanks so, much for sharing your reporting with | NPR's. Aarti Shahani Aarti thanks, so much for sharing your reporting with, | npr's aarti shahani. aarti, thanks so much for sharing your reporting with us. |
Thank you. | thank | Thank | thank you. |
Now, This American Moment. During the Democratic and Republican Conventions, we spoke with a series of guests, politicians, journalists, writers and thinkers. We asked each to take a step back and put this election and this campaign season in context. What is at stake? What does this election mean to them? We're contin... | now, this american moment during the democratic and republican conventions we spoke. with a series of guests politicians journalists writers and thinkers we asked each to take a step back and put this election and this campaign season in context what is at stake? what does; this election mean to them? we're continuing ... | Now This American Moment During the. Democratic and Republican Conventions we spoke with a series of guests politicians journalists writers and thinkers. We asked each to take; a step back, and put this election and this campaign season in context What is at stake? What does this, election mean to them? We're continuin... | now, this american moment. during the democratic and republican conventions, we spoke with a series of guests, politicians, journalists, writers and thinkers. we asked each to take a step back and put this election and this campaign season in context. what is at stake? what does this election mean to them? we're contin... |
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