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Never been convicted. Excuse me. | never. been convicted excuse | Never been convicted Excuse | never been convicted. excuse me. |
Oh, all right. I guess it was your wife was convicted in the... | oh. all right i guess it was your wife was. convicted in | Oh all right, I guess it was your wife was convicted in | oh, all right. i guess it was your wife was convicted in the... |
Nobody was ever convicted... | nobody was ever, | Nobody was ever | nobody was ever convicted... |
It was the - judgment was vacated, I beg your pardon. The judgment was vacated. | it was the - judgment was vacated i, beg your pardon the judgment was | It was the - judgment was vacated I beg. your pardon The judgment was | it was the - judgment was vacated, i beg your pardon. the judgment was vacated. |
Judgment was annulled, which means there was no judgment against us. | judgment was annulled which, means there was no judgment against | Judgment. was annulled; which means, there was no judgment against | judgment was annulled, which means there was no judgment against us. |
OK. It wasn't a mistrial declared by the Supreme Court? | ok. it wasn't a mistrial declared by the supreme | OK It, wasn't a mistrial declared by the Supreme | ok. it wasn't a mistrial declared by the supreme court? |
No. In fact, the Supreme Court ruled that the judge should be tried who tried us. | no in fact the supreme court ruled that, the judge should be tried who tried | No In fact the Supreme Court ruled that the judge should be tried who tried | no. in fact, the supreme court ruled that the judge should be tried who tried us. |
OK. Well, I beg your pardon. But as you know, this has been a question among supporters even in your own party for a while. And questions were raised even when Benazir Bhutto was head of the party as to whether this is the kind of baggage a candidate wants to bring along. | ok well i beg, your pardon but as you, know this has been a question among supporters even in your own party for a while and, questions were raised even when benazir bhutto was; head of the party as, to, whether this is the, kind of baggage a candidate wants to bring | OK Well I beg your pardon But as you know this has been a question among, supporters even in your own party for a while And questions were raised even when Benazir Bhutto was head of; the party as to whether this is the kind of baggage a. candidate wants. to bring | ok. well, i beg your pardon. but as you know, this has been a question among supporters even in your own party for a while. and questions were raised even when benazir bhutto was head of the party as to whether this is the kind of baggage a candidate wants to bring along. |
There is no baggage. If there was a baggage, Pakistan Peoples Party would have not won a sweeping victory in the country. The people have spoken. They don't believe the judges. They never did and never will. | there is no baggage if there. was a baggage pakistan peoples party would have not won a sweeping. victory in the country the people, have spoken they don't believe the judges they never did and never | There is no baggage If there was a baggage Pakistan Peoples; Party would have not won a sweeping victory in the country The people have, spoken They don't believe the judges They never did and never | there is no baggage. if there was a baggage, pakistan peoples party would have not won a sweeping victory in the country. the people have spoken. they don't believe the judges. they never did and never will. |
The judges were part of the government, the previous government? | the judges were; part of the government the previous | The judges were part of the government the previous | the judges were part of the government, the previous government? |
They were politically motivated cases. The world has said so, and the judiciary has said so, and the people of Pakistan have said so. | they were politically motivated cases, the world has said so and the judiciary has said so and the people of pakistan have said | They were politically motivated cases The world has said so and the judiciary has said so and the people of Pakistan have said | they were politically motivated cases. the world has said so, and the judiciary has said so, and the people of pakistan have said so. |
How do you see - your party's been part of a pretty fragile coalition. And how do you see reaching across some of those lines? | how do you see - your party's been part. of a pretty. fragile coalition and how do you see, reaching, across some of those | How do you see - your party's been, part of a pretty fragile; coalition And how do you see reaching across some of; those, | how do you see - your party's been part of a pretty fragile coalition. and how do you see reaching across some of those lines? |
I think democracy will succeed one way or the other. Fragile democracy is a trend in our part of the world. India has 40 parties together working in a democracy. We have four to eight parties working together. Hopefully, we'll find a solution. Democracy has to grow. It's still a very young plant. | i think democracy will succeed one way or the other fragile democracy is a trend in our part of the world. india has 40 parties together, working in. a democracy we have four to eight parties working together hopefully we'll find a solution democracy. has to grow it's still a very young | I think democracy will succeed one way or the other. Fragile democracy is. a, trend in our part of the world India has 40 parties together working in a. democracy We have four to eight parties. working together Hopefully we'll find, a solution Democracy has to grow It's still a very young | i think democracy will succeed one way or the other. fragile democracy is a trend in our part of the world. india has 40 parties together working in a democracy. we have four to eight parties working together. hopefully, we'll find a solution. democracy has to grow. it's still a very young plant. |
Yes. But how stable can a democracy be if it has to be stitched together from so many different interests? | yes but how stable can a democracy be if it has to be, stitched together from so many different | Yes But how stable can a democracy be, if it has to be stitched together from so many different | yes. but how stable can a democracy be if it has to be stitched together from so many different interests? |
Hello. | hello. | ||
That's right. I mean, this is an organization, a cookie business, a huge business owned by an American private equity firm that employs 15,000 people to make items which most of us will snack on and not give a second thought to. But you know, for 15,000 people, that's their life. And I think what I was interested in lo... | that's right i mean this is. an organization a cookie business. a huge business owned by, an american private equity firm that employs 15,000 people to make items which most. of. us will snack on and not give a second thought to; but you know for 15,000 people that's. their life and i think what i was interested in loo... | That's right I mean this is, an organization a cookie, business a huge business owned by an American private equity firm that employs 15,000 people to; make items which most of. us will snack on and not give. a second thought to But. you know for 15,000 people, that's their life And I think what I was interested in loo... | that's right. i mean, this is an organization, a cookie business, a huge business owned by an american private equity firm that employs 15,000 people to make items which most of us will snack on and not give a second thought to. but you know, for 15,000 people, that's their life. and i think what i was interested in lo... |
Again and again, I came across that when I talked to people in their workplace. Of course, you want a salary, you want to be, you know, paid for what you do. But you also want to feel that you're making a difference. And I think, you know, one of the features of the modern working world is we work in large organization... | again and again i came across that when i talked to people, in their workplace of course you want a salary you. want to, be you know paid for, what you do but you also want to feel that, you're making, a. difference and i think, you know one of the features of, the modern working world is we work in large organizations... | Again, and again I came across that when I talked, to people in their workplace Of course. you, want a, salary you want to be you; know paid for. what you do But you also want to, feel that you're making a difference And I think you know one of the. features of the modern working world, is we work in large. organizatio... | again and again, i came across that when i talked to people in their workplace. of course, you want a salary, you want to be, you know, paid for what you do. but you also want to feel that you're making a difference. and i think, you know, one of the features of the modern working world is we work in large organization... |
This incredible specialization of our lives, that we're not even baking cookies, we're in charge of the machine that applies the chocolate on top of the cookie. | this incredible specialization of our lives that we're not even. baking cookies we're in charge of the machine that applies the chocolate on top of the | This incredible. specialization of our lives that we're not even. baking cookies we're in. charge of the machine that. applies the chocolate on top of the | this incredible specialization of our lives, that we're not even baking cookies, we're in charge of the machine that applies the chocolate on top of the cookie. |
That's right. I mean, I was talking to some employees who do the insurance for the pallet, the sort of wooden crates on which the biscuits will go from one hub to another, and so they are so far - you know, I was thinking about, you know, how does work become meaningful? Work becomes meaningful when you feel you're mak... | that's right i mean i was talking to some employees who. do the insurance for the, pallet the sort of wooden crates on. which the biscuits will go from one hub to another and so they are so far - you know i was thinking; about you know how does work become meaningful? work becomes meaningful when you feel, you're makin... | That's right I mean I was talking to some employees who do the insurance for the pallet the sort of wooden crates on which the biscuits will go from one hub to another and so they. are so far - you, know; I. was thinking about you know. how does work become meaningful? Work becomes meaningful; when you; feel you're mak... | that's right. i mean, i was talking to some employees who do the insurance for the pallet, the sort of wooden crates on which the biscuits will go from one hub to another, and so they are so far - you know, i was thinking about, you know, how does work become meaningful? work becomes meaningful when you feel you're mak... |
Thank goodness these things exist. But the problem is if you're employee number 8,300 of a giant organization, you're very far from the source of the meaning sort of generating aspect of the cookie business. And that's why there were some people who just felt a feeling of drift, a kind of alienation, like what are we d... | thank. goodness these things exist, but the problem is if you're employee number 8,300 of a, giant organization you're very far from the source of the meaning sort of generating aspect of the cookie. business and that's why, there were some people who just felt a feeling of drift a kind of alienation like what are we d... | Thank goodness these things exist But the problem is if. you're employee number 8,300 of, a giant organization, you're very far from the source of the meaning sort of generating aspect of the cookie business. And that's why there were some. people who. just felt a feeling of drift a kind, of; alienation like what. are ... | thank goodness these things exist. but the problem is if you're employee number 8,300 of a giant organization, you're very far from the source of the meaning sort of generating aspect of the cookie business. and that's why there were some people who just felt a feeling of drift, a kind of alienation, like what are we d... |
Let's get some callers on the line. What impact does your job have on other people's lives? What is it about your job we don't understand? 800-989-8255, email is talk@npr.org, and Mat is on the line calling from Harveysburg in Ohio. | let's get some callers on the line what impact does your job have on other people's. lives? what is it, about your job we don't understand? 800-989-8255, email is talk@npr.org and mat is on the line, calling from harveysburg in, | Let's get some callers on the line What impact does your job have on other people's, lives? What is it about your job we don't understand? 800-989-8255, email. is talk@npr.org and Mat is on the line calling from Harveysburg in | let's get some callers on the line. what impact does your job have on other people's lives? what is it about your job we don't understand? 800-989-8255, email is talk@npr.org, and mat is on the line calling from harveysburg in ohio. |
Hello. | hello. | ||
Hi, Matt. | hi | Hi | hi, matt. |
Hi. | hi. | ||
Thanks for taking my call. | thanks for taking my | Thanks for taking, my | thanks for taking my call. |
Go ahead. | go | Go | go ahead. |
I'd just like to comment that what I find enjoyable about my job - I design control systems for buildings, so I integrate HVAC, lighting, security, all of that into a building, is the sense when you're done that you've made something inanimate come alive. | i'd just like to comment that what i find enjoyable about my job - i design control systems for buildings so. i integrate hvac lighting security all of; that into a building is the sense when you're done that you've made something inanimate come | I'd just like, to comment that what I find enjoyable about my job - I design control systems for buildings so I integrate. HVAC, lighting security all of that into a building is the. sense when you're done that you've made. something inanimate come | i'd just like to comment that what i find enjoyable about my job - i design control systems for buildings, so i integrate hvac, lighting, security, all of that into a building, is the sense when you're done that you've made something inanimate come alive. |
Hmm. So the building is itself breathing and has a nervous system, as it were? | hmm so the building is itself breathing and has a nervous system as it | Hmm So the building is itself breathing and has a nervous system as it | hmm. so the building is itself breathing and has a nervous system, as it were? |
Yeah, it's kind of like the human body. You've got a brain, you've got the central nervous system, a pulmonary system. A building is kind of like that to me. You make it something that it wasn't when you got there. | yeah it's kind of like the human body you've got a brain you've got the central nervous system a pulmonary system a building is, kind of like that to me you make it something that it wasn't when you got | Yeah it's kind of like the human, body You've got, a brain you've got the central nervous system a pulmonary system A building is kind of like that to me You, make. it something that it wasn't when. you, got | yeah, it's kind of like the human body. you've got a brain, you've got the central nervous system, a pulmonary system. a building is kind of like that to me. you make it something that it wasn't when you got there. |
And do other people understand that? | and do other people understand. | And do other people understand | and do other people understand that? |
No, I think our best hope is to be invisible, so no call is a good day. | no i think our best hope is. to be invisible so no call is a good | No I think our best hope is to be invisible so no call is a good | no, i think our best hope is to be invisible, so no call is a good day. |
(Soundbite of laughter) | (soundbite of | (Soundbite of | (soundbite of laughter) |
And what's the size of the company you work in, Matt? | and what's the size, of the company you work in | And what's the size of the, company you work in | and what's the size of the company you work in, matt? |
Right now, we're three people. | right now we're three | Right now we're three | right now, we're three people. |
Three people, so that's at least - there are two other people who understand what you do. | three people so that's at least - there are two other people, who understand what you | Three people so that's at, least - there are two other people who understand what you | three people, so that's at least - there are two other people who understand what you do. |
Yes. | yes. | ||
Okay, Matt, thanks very much. | okay matt thanks very | Okay Matt thanks very | okay, matt, thanks very much. |
Thank you. | thank | Thank | thank you. |
Bye-bye. And we - most of us work in buildings and don't give a thought to whoever it is that keeps the air conditioning and the electricity and all of that going until it fails. | bye-bye and we - most of us work in buildings and don't give, a, thought to whoever it is that keeps the air conditioning and the electricity and all of that going until it | Bye-bye And we - most of us work in buildings and don't give a thought to whoever it is that keeps the air conditioning and the electricity. and all of, that going until it | bye-bye. and we - most of us work in buildings and don't give a thought to whoever it is that keeps the air conditioning and the electricity and all of that going until it fails. |
That's right, and I think also what's fascinating about your caller is, I don't know about you, but I had quite a hard time understanding what he actually did. I have a sort of vague understanding, and that's - you know, a feature of the modern world is we tend to not understand who people are until we've asked them wh... | that's right and i think also what's fascinating about your caller is i don't know about you, but i had quite a hard time understanding what he actually did. i have a. sort of, vague understanding and that's - you know a feature of the modern world is we tend to not understand who. people are, until we've asked them wh... | That's right and I think also what's fascinating about your, caller is. I don't know about you but. I had quite a, hard time understanding what he actually did I have a sort of vague understanding and. that's - you know a feature of the modern world is we tend to not understand who people are until we've asked, them wh... | that's right, and i think also what's fascinating about your caller is, i don't know about you, but i had quite a hard time understanding what he actually did. i have a sort of vague understanding, and that's - you know, a feature of the modern world is we tend to not understand who people are until we've asked them wh... |
And one of the things you do is follow a career counselor, and you observe in that chapter of your book that many of us feel somehow we've missed our calling. And you describe that word calling as a curious and unfortunate term, and what do you mean by that? | and one of the. things, you do is follow a career counselor and you observe in that chapter of. your book that many of us. feel somehow we've missed our calling. and you describe that word calling as a curious and unfortunate term and what do you mean by. | And one. of. the, things, you do is follow a career counselor and you observe in that chapter of your book that many of us feel somehow we've missed our calling And you, describe that word, calling as a curious and, unfortunate term and what do. you mean, by | and one of the things you do is follow a career counselor, and you observe in that chapter of your book that many of us feel somehow we've missed our calling. and you describe that word calling as a curious and unfortunate term, and what do you mean by that? |
Well, it can be very unhelpful. You know, many people expect that if they've got, you know, if they're happy in a job, it's because it was their destiny to take that job. And especially, you know, many graduates, you know, people leaving university now feel - they're a bit confused about what to do next. And they are a... | well it can be very, unhelpful, you know many people expect that if they've got you know if they're happy in a job it's because. it was, their destiny to take that job and especially you know many graduates you know people leaving. university now feel - they're a bit confused about what to. do next. and they are almost... | Well it can be very, unhelpful You know many people expect that if they've got you know, if, they're happy in a, job it's, because, it was their destiny to take that job And. especially you. know many graduates you know people leaving university now feel - they're a bit confused about, what to do next And they are almo... | well, it can be very unhelpful. you know, many people expect that if they've got, you know, if they're happy in a job, it's because it was their destiny to take that job. and especially, you know, many graduates, you know, people leaving university now feel - they're a bit confused about what to do next. and they are a... |
No, the pleasure's all mine. Yeah, I'm a used-parts truck driver in the state of Colorado. I drive all over the state, as far north as Cheyenne, Wyoming, as far south as Colorado Springs. | no the pleasure's, all mine yeah i'm a used-parts truck driver in the state of colorado i drive all over the, state as far north as cheyenne wyoming as far south as colorado | No the pleasure's all mine Yeah I'm a used-parts truck driver in the, state of Colorado I drive all over the, state as far north as, Cheyenne Wyoming. as far south as Colorado | no, the pleasure's all mine. yeah, i'm a used-parts truck driver in the state of colorado. i drive all over the state, as far north as cheyenne, wyoming, as far south as colorado springs. |
And what is it that people don't get about your job? | and what is it that people don't get about your | And. what is, it that people, don't get about your | and what is it that people don't get about your job? |
Hi. | hi. | ||
And I don't think it's like that. And I think most of us have many possibilities within us. And the belief that we should know what we want to do, the belief that that's the normal thing, is incredibly confusing, especially for young people, because it leads them to think there's something wrong with me. I'm confused, ... | and i don't think it's like that and i think most of us have many possibilities within us and the belief that we, should know what we want. to do the belief that, that's the normal thing is incredibly confusing, especially. for young people because it leads, them to think there's something wrong with me i'm confused an... | And I. don't. think it's like that And. I think most of us have many possibilities within us And the belief, that we should know what we want to, do the belief that that's the, normal thing is. incredibly confusing especially for young people because it leads them to think there's something wrong with me I'm confused a... | and i don't think it's like that. and i think most of us have many possibilities within us. and the belief that we should know what we want to do, the belief that that's the normal thing, is incredibly confusing, especially for young people, because it leads them to think there's something wrong with me. i'm confused, ... |
I mean, talking to this career counselor, that's absolutely not the way he saw it. And he said, you know, the greatest tragedy is that people don't take that process of inquiry serious enough. They don't give themselves the time to try and find out what it is they really want to do. And we talk all the time about the l... | i mean talking to this career counselor that's absolutely not the way he saw it and he said you know the greatest tragedy is that people don't take that process of. inquiry serious enough, they don't give themselves the time to try. and find out what it is they. really want to do, and. we talk all the. time about the l... | I. mean talking to this career counselor that's absolutely. not the way he saw. it And he said you know the, greatest tragedy is that people don't take that process of inquiry, serious, enough They don't give themselves the. time to try and find out what it; is they really want to do And we talk all the, time about the... | i mean, talking to this career counselor, that's absolutely not the way he saw it. and he said, you know, the greatest tragedy is that people don't take that process of inquiry serious enough. they don't give themselves the time to try and find out what it is they really want to do. and we talk all the time about the l... |
Let's get Jeff(ph) on the line, Jeff with us from DeKalb in Illinois. | let's. get jeff(ph) on the line jeff with us from dekalb in | Let's get. Jeff(ph) on the line Jeff with us from DeKalb, in | let's get jeff(ph) on the line, jeff with us from dekalb in illinois. |
Yes, good day. I'm a tooling engineer for the packaging industry. | yes good day i'm a tooling, engineer. for the packaging, | Yes good day I'm a tooling engineer for the, packaging | yes, good day. i'm a tooling engineer for the packaging industry. |
(Soundbite of laughter) | (soundbite of | (Soundbite of | (soundbite of laughter) |
And what is a tooling engineer? | and what, is. a tooling | And what is a tooling | and what is a tooling engineer? |
Well, I don't design the machines that actually seal the packages; I don't design the packages. I design the tooling that seals packages on machines for your larger stores, grocery stores or like Wal-Mart chain. | well i don't design the machines that, actually seal the packages i, don't design the packages i design the tooling that seals packages on machines for your larger stores grocery stores or like wal-mart, | Well I don't design the machines that actually seal the packages I don't design the packages I design. the tooling that seals packages on machines for your larger stores grocery stores or like Wal-Mart | well, i don't design the machines that actually seal the packages; i don't design the packages. i design the tooling that seals packages on machines for your larger stores, grocery stores or like wal-mart chain. |
So a big box of - what kinds of packages? You know, 48 packages of toilet paper or something? | so a big box of - what kinds of packages? you know 48 packages of toilet paper or | So a big box of. - what kinds of packages? You know 48 packages of toilet paper or | so a big box of - what kinds of packages? you know, 48 packages of toilet paper or something? |
Well, mostly blister packs. Blister packs, where you have a blister sealed on to a card. That requires a special set of tooling sealed on a machine. So I guess the one thing that I can see is that I can walk down a hardware aisle, I can walk down the home, household aisle, and I can see a lot of the packages that I hav... | well mostly blister packs blister packs where you have a blister sealed on to a card that requires a special set, of tooling sealed on a machine so i guess the, one thing that i can see is that i can walk down a hardware aisle i can. walk down. the home household aisle and i can see a lot of the, packages that i have s... | Well mostly blister packs Blister packs where you have a blister sealed on to a card That requires a special set of, tooling sealed on. a machine So I guess. the one thing that I can see, is that I can walk down a hardware aisle I can walk down the home; household aisle and I can see a lot, of the packages that I have ... | well, mostly blister packs. blister packs, where you have a blister sealed on to a card. that requires a special set of tooling sealed on a machine. so i guess the one thing that i can see is that i can walk down a hardware aisle, i can walk down the home, household aisle, and i can see a lot of the packages that i hav... |
And the rest of us just wrestle with them when we get home because we can't open them. | and the rest. of us just, wrestle with. them when we get. home because we can't open | And the rest. of. us just wrestle with them, when we get, home because we can't open | and the rest of us just wrestle with them when we get home because we can't open them. |
No, well - you know, then I guess I did my job right. | no well - you know then i guess i did. my job | No well - you know then I, guess. I did my job | no, well - you know, then i guess i did my job right. |
(Soundbite of laughter) | (soundbite of | (Soundbite of | (soundbite of laughter) |
Well, that was obviously somebody else's blister packages. Jeff, thanks very much for the call. I never knew that there was somebody who did that and that's what it was called. | well that was obviously somebody else's, blister packages jeff thanks very much for the call i never knew that. there was somebody who did that and that's what it was | Well that was. obviously somebody else's blister packages Jeff thanks very much for the call I never. knew that there was somebody who did that and that's what it was | well, that was obviously somebody else's blister packages. jeff, thanks very much for the call. i never knew that there was somebody who did that and that's what it was called. |
Well, I would have to say there's not many of us, and there's probably a good reason. | well. i would have, to say there's not many of us and there's probably a, good | Well I would have. to say there's not many of us and. there's probably a, good | well, i would have to say there's not many of us, and there's probably a good reason. |
Talk about a specialized job - we're talking about specialized jobs today with Alain De Botton, the philosopher who's written a new book called "The Pleasures And Sorrows Of Work," also "The Architecture of Happiness" is one of his previous books. | talk about, a specialized. job. - we're talking about specialized jobs today. with alain de botton the philosopher who's written. a new book called "the pleasures and sorrows of. work" also "the architecture. of happiness" is one of his previous | Talk about a specialized, job - we're talking about specialized jobs today, with Alain De Botton the philosopher. who's written a new book called "The Pleasures. And Sorrows Of Work" also "The Architecture of Happiness" is one of. his previous | talk about a specialized job - we're talking about specialized jobs today with alain de botton, the philosopher who's written a new book called "the pleasures and sorrows of work," also "the architecture of happiness" is one of his previous books. |
If you'd like to join the conversation, tell us what it is you do, what it is we don't get about it, and what it is that makes it meaningful in your life, 800-989-8255. Email us, talk@npr.org. Stay with us. I'm Neal Conan. It's the TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News. | if you'd like to join the conversation tell us what; it is. you, do what it is we, don't, get about it and what it is that makes it meaningful in your life 800-989-8255. email us talk@npr.org stay with us i'm neal conan it's the talk of the nation from npr | If you'd like to join the conversation tell us. what it is. you do what it. is we don't get about it and what it, is that makes it meaningful in your life 800-989-8255. Email us talk@npr.org Stay with us I'm Neal Conan; It's the, TALK OF THE NATION from NPR | if you'd like to join the conversation, tell us what it is you do, what it is we don't get about it, and what it is that makes it meaningful in your life, 800-989-8255. email us, talk@npr.org. stay with us. i'm neal conan. it's the talk of the nation from npr news. |
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This is TALK OF THE NATION. I'm Neal Conan in Washington. Alain De Botton writes in his new book: All societies have had work at their center. Ours is the first to suggest that it could be something more than a punishment or a penance. Ours is the first to imply that we should seek to work, even in the absence of a fin... | this, is talk of the nation i'm neal. conan in washington alain de botton, writes in his new book: all societies have had work at their center ours is the first to suggest that it could be something more than a punishment or a penance ours is the, first to imply that we, should seek to work even in the absence. of a fi... | This is TALK OF THE NATION I'm Neal Conan in Washington Alain De Botton writes in; his new book: All, societies have had work at their center Ours is the first to, suggest that it could be something. more than a punishment or a penance Ours is the first to imply that we should seek to work even in the absence. of a fin... | this is talk of the nation. i'm neal conan in washington. alain de botton writes in his new book: all societies have had work at their center. ours is the first to suggest that it could be something more than a punishment or a penance. ours is the first to imply that we should seek to work, even in the absence of a fin... |
The book is titled "The Pleasures And Sorrows Of Work," and Alain De Botton is our guest this hour, and we want to hear from you. What do people just not get about your job? How is connected to meaning in life? Truck drivers, bakers, rural vets and engineers, what is it we don't see? Tell us your story, 800-989-8255. E... | the book is titled "the pleasures and sorrows of work" and alain de botton is our guest this hour and we want to; hear from you what do people just not get about your job? how is connected to meaning in life? truck drivers bakers rural vets and engineers what is it we don't see? tell us your story 800-989-8255. email t... | The book, is titled "The Pleasures And Sorrows Of Work" and Alain De Botton is our guest this hour. and we want to hear from you What do people just not get about your job? How is connected to meaning in life? Truck drivers bakers rural, vets, and engineers what is it we don't see? Tell us your, story 800-989-8255. Ema... | the book is titled "the pleasures and sorrows of work," and alain de botton is our guest this hour, and we want to hear from you. what do people just not get about your job? how is connected to meaning in life? truck drivers, bakers, rural vets and engineers, what is it we don't see? tell us your story, 800-989-8255. e... |
Hi, Neal. I love your program, and this is once again a very rich and resonant subject. | hi neal i love your program and this. is once again a very rich and resonant | Hi Neal I love your program and this is once again a very rich and resonant | hi, neal. i love your program, and this is once again a very rich and resonant subject. |
Thank you. | thank | Thank | thank you. |
I am a garden designer and gardener. And I think that in this time that we're living in, where everything is hyper-accelerated and people are so consumed with multitasking and all of these things, that we're all really removed from the process of where our food comes from or what the seasons are and, you know, what gar... | i am a garden, designer and gardener and i think that in this time that we're living in where everything is hyper-accelerated and people are so consumed with multitasking and all of these things; that we're all really removed from the process of where, our food comes from or what the seasons are, and you know what gard... | I am a garden designer and gardener And I think that in this time that we're living in where, everything is hyper-accelerated and people, are so consumed with multitasking, and all of these things that we're all really removed from the process of where, our food comes from or what the seasons are and you, know what. ga... | i am a garden designer and gardener. and i think that in this time that we're living in, where everything is hyper-accelerated and people are so consumed with multitasking and all of these things, that we're all really removed from the process of where our food comes from or what the seasons are and, you know, what gar... |
And so a lot of my work, which is really wonderful, and I have wonderful clients, is to provide a beautiful view for people, for people to see as they're coming and going from their homes, as they're sitting inside looking out their windows. And a lot of that involves listening and observing and forensics in a garden a... | and so a lot of my work which is really wonderful and i. have wonderful clients is to provide a; beautiful view for people for people. to see as they're coming and going from their homes as they're sitting inside, looking out their windows and, a lot of that involves listening, and observing; and. forensics in a. garde... | And so a lot of my work which is really wonderful and I have. wonderful clients is to provide. a beautiful view for people for people to see as they're coming and, going from their homes as they're, sitting inside looking out their windows And a lot of that involves listening and observing and forensics in a garden and... | and so a lot of my work, which is really wonderful, and i have wonderful clients, is to provide a beautiful view for people, for people to see as they're coming and going from their homes, as they're sitting inside looking out their windows. and a lot of that involves listening and observing and forensics in a garden a... |
And the meaning, I guess, is in the final product, the view. | and the meaning i guess is in the final product the | And the meaning I guess is in the final product the | and the meaning, i guess, is in the final product, the view. |
Say that again? | say that | Say. that. | say that again? |
And the meaning you get from it is watching people look at it. | and the meaning you get from it is watching people look at | And the meaning you get from it is watching people look at | and the meaning you get from it is watching people look at it. |
Absolutely. I love to make them happier, to give them pleasure from making the view beautiful for them. I do. | absolutely i love to make them happier to give them, pleasure. from making the view beautiful for. them i | Absolutely I love to make them happier to give them pleasure from making the view beautiful for them I | absolutely. i love to make them happier, to give them pleasure from making the view beautiful for them. i do. |
And Alain, Lisa seems to have one of those jobs that still exists in our society that's not part of this mechanized and corporate world you're talking about. | and alain lisa seems to have one of those jobs that still exists in our society that's not part of, this mechanized and, corporate world you're talking | And Alain. Lisa seems to have one of those jobs that still exists in our society that's not part. of this mechanized, and corporate world you're talking | and alain, lisa seems to have one of those jobs that still exists in our society that's not part of this mechanized and corporate world you're talking about. |
It's interesting because when I talked to people for the book and asked them about their fantasies, what is your fantasy dream job? The job of a landscape gardener came up again and again, and I think this is not a coincidence. I think that gardening is right at the center of what all jobs should, in a sense, be doing ... | it's interesting because when i, talked, to, people for the. book and asked them about their fantasies what is your; fantasy dream job? the job of a landscape. gardener came up again and again and i think this is not a coincidence i think that gardening is, right. at the center of what all jobs should in. a sense be do... | It's, interesting because when I, talked, to people for the book and asked them about their fantasies what is your fantasy dream job? The job of a landscape gardener came up again; and again, and I think this is not a coincidence I think that gardening is right at the center of. what all jobs should in a sense be doing... | it's interesting because when i talked to people for the book and asked them about their fantasies, what is your fantasy dream job? the job of a landscape gardener came up again and again, and i think this is not a coincidence. i think that gardening is right at the center of what all jobs should, in a sense, be doing ... |
Yeah, that's the defense of the modern economy, that of course, you know, shopping malls, you can feel this is all decadent. And in the current economic crisis, a lot of people are saying this is call for a simpler life. You know, let's throw away luxury. Let's throw away decadence. And you know, I think we all sometim... | yeah that's the defense of the modern economy that of course you know shopping malls you, can feel this is all decadent and. in the current economic crisis a lot of people are saying this is call for a simpler life you know let's. throw away luxury let's throw away decadence and you, know i think we all sometimes in so... | Yeah that's the defense of the; modern economy that of, course you know shopping malls you can feel this. is all decadent And in the, current economic crisis a lot of people are saying this is call for a simpler life You know let's throw away luxury Let's throw away decadence And you know I think we all sometimes in. s... | yeah, that's the defense of the modern economy, that of course, you know, shopping malls, you can feel this is all decadent. and in the current economic crisis, a lot of people are saying this is call for a simpler life. you know, let's throw away luxury. let's throw away decadence. and you know, i think we all sometim... |
So I think, you know, how a large office works is just absolutely fascinating. | so i think you know how a large office works is just absolutely | So I think you know how a, large office works is just absolutely | so i think, you know, how a large office works is just absolutely fascinating. |
You'll never manage to tame the whole world, but in a little space, which we call a garden, you'll be able to create something beautiful. And I think that's what we all want from our work. Even if we're not interested in gardening, we want to create something which is that little bit better than the rest of the world o... | you'll never manage to tame the whole world but in a little space which we call a garden you'll be able. to create something beautiful and i think that's what we all want from our work; even if we're not interested in gardening we want to create something. which is that little bit better than the rest of the world outs... | You'll, never. manage to tame the whole world but in a little space. which we call a garden you'll be able to create something beautiful And I think that's what we all want from our work Even if we're not interested in. gardening we, want, to create, something, which is that little bit better than the. rest of the. wor... | you'll never manage to tame the whole world, but in a little space, which we call a garden, you'll be able to create something beautiful. and i think that's what we all want from our work. even if we're not interested in gardening, we want to create something which is that little bit better than the rest of the world o... |
Lisa, that's an endorsement if I ever heard one. | lisa that's an endorsement if i ever heard | Lisa that's an endorsement if I ever. heard | lisa, that's an endorsement if i ever heard one. |
I hardily, hardily agree. I feel - well, I will go back to my gardens this afternoon feeling very self-satisfied. | i hardily hardily agree i feel - well i will go back to my gardens this, afternoon feeling very | I. hardily hardily agree I feel - well I will, go back to my gardens this afternoon feeling very | i hardily, hardily agree. i feel - well, i will go back to my gardens this afternoon feeling very self-satisfied. |
Thank you very much for the call. We appreciate it. | thank. you very much for the call we appreciate | Thank you very much for the call We appreciate | thank you very much for the call. we appreciate it. |
Thank you. | thank | Thank | thank you. |
Bye-bye. Let's see if we can go next to Anna(ph), Anna with us from Waikiki in Hawaii. | bye-bye, let's, see if, we can go next to anna(ph), anna with us from waikiki in | Bye-bye Let's see if, we can go next to Anna(ph), Anna with us from Waikiki in | bye-bye. let's see if we can go next to anna(ph), anna with us from waikiki in hawaii. |
Hi. I have a profession that's centuries old. I bartend, and I have the joy of doing it on a catamaran and in Waikiki. And what I think is unique about it is that I never thought about being a greeter of aloha, but that's exactly what I've become. And it's more than just serving drinks. It's greeting new people to the ... | hi i have a profession, that's centuries old i bartend and i have; the joy of doing it on a catamaran and in waikiki. and what i, think is unique about it is that i never thought, about being a greeter of aloha but that's exactly what i've become and it's more than just serving drinks it's greeting new people, to the, ... | Hi I have a profession that's centuries old I bartend and I have the joy of doing it on a catamaran and in Waikiki And what I think is unique about it is that I never thought about being a greeter of. aloha but that's exactly what I've, become And it's more than just serving drinks It's greeting new people to, the isla... | hi. i have a profession that's centuries old. i bartend, and i have the joy of doing it on a catamaran and in waikiki. and what i think is unique about it is that i never thought about being a greeter of aloha, but that's exactly what i've become. and it's more than just serving drinks. it's greeting new people to the ... |
And this is a category of job, Alain De Botton, that's I guess called the service industry. Few of us get to do it in such a pretty place. | and this is a category of job alain de botton that's, i guess called the service industry few of us get to do it; in such a pretty | And this is a category of job Alain De Botton that's I. guess called the service industry Few of us get to do it, in such a pretty | and this is a category of job, alain de botton, that's i guess called the service industry. few of us get to do it in such a pretty place. |
Yes, exactly, and I couldn't imagine doing it in any other place now. | yes. exactly and i couldn't. imagine doing, it in any other place | Yes exactly and I couldn't imagine doing it in any other place | yes, exactly, and i couldn't imagine doing it in any other place now. |
I think what's interesting about the service industry is that when I was writing the book, I spent a lot of time with my children, who are very small. They're like 2 and 4, and one of their favorite games is serving people. | i think what's interesting about the service industry is that when i was writing the book i spent a lot of time with my children who are very small they're like 2 and 4, and one of, their favorite games is serving | I think what's, interesting about the service industry is that when I was writing the book I spent a lot. of time with my children who are very small, They're like 2 and 4, and one of their favorite games is serving | i think what's interesting about the service industry is that when i was writing the book, i spent a lot of time with my children, who are very small. they're like 2 and 4, and one of their favorite games is serving people. |
They love nothing better than to put some food on a tray and walk around with it and say, you know, do you want to eat this? And they want to feed people. And sometimes we think that service jobs are right at the bottom of the economy and somehow not that high status, but I think that this is completely wrong. | they love nothing better than to put some food, on, a tray and; walk around with it and say you know do you. want to eat this? and they want to feed people and, sometimes we think that service jobs are right. at the bottom of the economy and somehow not that high status but i think that this is completely, | They love nothing better than to put some food on a tray and, walk around with it and say you know do, you want to eat this? And. they want to feed people, And sometimes we think that service jobs are right at. the bottom of the economy and somehow not that, high status but I think that this is completely | they love nothing better than to put some food on a tray and walk around with it and say, you know, do you want to eat this? and they want to feed people. and sometimes we think that service jobs are right at the bottom of the economy and somehow not that high status, but i think that this is completely wrong. |
I think that to serve, for one human being to serve another human being, this is one of the highest of callings, if you like. You know, this is something absolutely essential to what human beings want and need. The satisfaction is not for the person who is served but for the person who is serving because it's what we n... | i. think that to serve for one human being to serve another; human being this is one of the highest of callings if you like you know this is, something absolutely essential to what human beings want and need the satisfaction, is. not, for the person who is served but for, the person who is, serving, because it's what w... | I think. that to serve for one human being to serve another human being this is one of the highest of callings if you. like You know this is something absolutely essential to what human beings want and, need. The. satisfaction is not for the person who is served but. for the person who is serving because it's what we n... | i think that to serve, for one human being to serve another human being, this is one of the highest of callings, if you like. you know, this is something absolutely essential to what human beings want and need. the satisfaction is not for the person who is served but for the person who is serving because it's what we n... |
Anna, thanks very much, and make mine a double. | anna thanks very much and, make mine a | Anna thanks; very much and make mine a | anna, thanks very much, and make mine a double. |
(Soundbite of laughter) | (soundbite of | (Soundbite of | (soundbite of laughter) |
Thank you. | thank | Thank | thank you. |
Bye-bye. Here's an email from Sara(ph). I find this topic to hit home because most people found my job kind of strange. For several years, I specialized in making miniature trees for architectural models. Yes, tiny trees. I worked for a small company and once built a model that would affect the development of my own ne... | bye-bye here's an email from sara(ph). i, find this, topic to hit home because most people found my job kind of strange for several years i specialized in making miniature trees for architectural models yes tiny trees i, worked for a small. company and once built a model that would affect the development of my own neig... | Bye-bye Here's an; email from. Sara(ph). I; find this topic to hit home. because most people found my job kind of strange For, several years I, specialized in making miniature trees, for architectural, models Yes tiny trees I worked for a small company and once built, a model that would affect the development of my own... | bye-bye. here's an email from sara(ph). i find this topic to hit home because most people found my job kind of strange. for several years, i specialized in making miniature trees for architectural models. yes, tiny trees. i worked for a small company and once built a model that would affect the development of my own ne... |
(Soundbite of laughter) | (soundbite of | (Soundbite, of | (soundbite of laughter) |
Absolutely. | absolutely. | ||
That kind of specialty is going to be hard to place at the unemployment office. | that; kind of specialty. is going to be hard to place at the unemployment | That kind of specialty is going to be hard to place at the unemployment | that kind of specialty is going to be hard to place at the unemployment office. |
That's right, but you know, unemployment touches on something so interesting because we do live in this culture where your job is your identity. So what happens when you're an unemployed tree-maker, you know, and people say what do you do? | that's right but you know unemployment touches on something so interesting because we do live in this culture where your job is your identity. so what happens when you're an unemployed tree-maker you know and people say what do you | That's right but you know unemployment touches on something so interesting. because we do live in this culture where your job is your identity So what happens when you're an unemployed tree-maker you know and people say what do you | that's right, but you know, unemployment touches on something so interesting because we do live in this culture where your job is your identity. so what happens when you're an unemployed tree-maker, you know, and people say what do you do? |
You almost have to say, I don't exist until I'm doing that work again, which seems really painful and really horrible. And I think in the current economic climate, we have to leave some room in our imaginations for the fact that people are not just their jobs, that the job you do might be - you know, the really interes... | you almost; have to say i don't exist until i'm doing that work, again which seems really painful and really horrible and i think in the current economic climate we have. to leave some room in our imaginations for the fact that people are not just their jobs that the job you do might be - you know the really interestin... | You almost have to say I don't exist until I'm doing that work; again which seems really painful and really horrible. And I think in the, current economic climate we; have to leave some room in our imaginations for the fact, that people are not just their. jobs that the job you do might be - you, know the really intere... | you almost have to say, i don't exist until i'm doing that work again, which seems really painful and really horrible. and i think in the current economic climate, we have to leave some room in our imaginations for the fact that people are not just their jobs, that the job you do might be - you know, the really interes... |
We always have to - must bear in mind that people are not necessarily doing - that they aren't necessarily their jobs. Their job is - you know, their dream job is much closer to who they really are, in a sense. | we always have to - must bear in. mind that people are not necessarily doing - that they aren't necessarily their jobs their job is; - you know their dream, job is much closer to who they really are in. a | We always have to - must bear in mind that people are not necessarily, doing - that, they aren't necessarily their jobs Their job is - you know their dream job is. much closer to; who they really are in a | we always have to - must bear in mind that people are not necessarily doing - that they aren't necessarily their jobs. their job is - you know, their dream job is much closer to who they really are, in a sense. |
And I'm going to ask Alain De Botton and our listeners to bear with me a moment. I'm going to read a little bit from his book. | and i'm going to; ask alain de botton and our listeners to bear with me a moment i'm going to. read a little bit. from his | And I'm going to ask Alain De Botton and our listeners to bear with, me a moment I'm going to. read a little bit from his | and i'm going to ask alain de botton and our listeners to bear with me a moment. i'm going to read a little bit from his book. |
It was in the 18th century that economists and political theorists first became aware of the paradoxes and triumphs of commercial societies, which placed trade, luxury and private fortunes at their center while paying only lip service to the pursuit of higher goals. From the beginning, observers of these societies have... | it was in the 18th century that economists and political. theorists. first became aware of the paradoxes and triumphs of commercial societies which placed trade. luxury, and private fortunes. at their center while paying only lip service, to the pursuit; of higher goals. from. the beginning observers of these societies... | It was in the 18th century that, economists and political theorists first became aware of the paradoxes and triumphs of commercial societies which placed trade luxury, and private fortunes at their center while paying only lip service to the pursuit of higher goals From the beginning observers of these societies. have ... | it was in the 18th century that economists and political theorists first became aware of the paradoxes and triumphs of commercial societies, which placed trade, luxury and private fortunes at their center while paying only lip service to the pursuit of higher goals. from the beginning, observers of these societies have... |
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