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We want to get a lot of listeners in and a lot of audience members here in Wausau involved in the conversation. If you'd like to be with us: 800-989-8255. That's 800-989-TALK. Our e-mail address is: talk@npr.org, and let's go to the phones first, and this is Craig and Craig's calling us from Oakland, California.	we, want to, get a lot of listeners in and a lot of audience members here in wausau involved in the conversation. if you'd like to, be with us: 800-989-8255. that's; 800-989-talk our e-mail address is: talk@npr.org and let's go to the phones first and this is craig and craig's calling us from oakland	We want. to get. a lot of listeners in. and a lot of audience members here in Wausau involved in the conversation If you'd like to be with us: 800-989-8255. That's 800-989-TALK Our e-mail address is: talk@npr.org, and let's go to the phones first and this is Craig and Craig's calling us from Oakland	we want to get a lot of listeners in and a lot of audience members here in wausau involved in the conversation. if you'd like to be with us: 800-989-8255. that's 800-989-talk. our e-mail address is: talk@npr.org, and let's go to the phones first, and this is craig and craig's calling us from oakland, california.
Yeah, one of the things is that I grew up hunting in Idaho and Utah. And of the things is the cost of hunting. Like skiing and everything else, the professionals have taken it over, and you just can't go and do it on just the cheap as we used to, my uncles and nephews. Another thing, I think, is everyone has other inte...	yeah one of the things is that i grew up hunting in idaho and utah and of, the things is the cost of hunting like skiing. and everything, else the professionals have taken it, over and. you just can't go and do. it on just the cheap as we used to my uncles and nephews another thing i think is everyone has other interes...	Yeah one of the, things is that I grew up hunting in Idaho and Utah And of the things is the cost of. hunting Like. skiing and everything else the professionals. have taken it over and you just can't go and do it on just the cheap as we used, to my uncles and nephews Another thing I think is everyone has other interest...	yeah, one of the things is that i grew up hunting in idaho and utah. and of the things is the cost of hunting. like skiing and everything else, the professionals have taken it over, and you just can't go and do it on just the cheap as we used to, my uncles and nephews. another thing, i think, is everyone has other inte...
(Soundbite of laughter)	(soundbite of	(Soundbite, of	(soundbite of laughter)
I'm not sure, well, we're going to leave that alone, there, Craig. We're just going to leave that alone. Enjoy the Oscars, Craig. Thanks for the call. But I did, Richard Stedman, want to address Craig's first point, and that is about expense and, indeed, you look at some of the least prices that private landowners are ...	i'm not sure well we're going to; leave that alone there craig we're just going, to leave. that alone enjoy the oscars craig thanks for the call but i did richard stedman want to address craig's first point, and that is about expense and indeed you. look at some of the least prices that private landowners are charging,...	I'm not sure, well we're going to leave that alone there Craig We're just going to leave that alone Enjoy the Oscars Craig Thanks for the call But I did Richard Stedman want to address Craig's first point and that is about expense and indeed you look at some of the least prices that private; landowners are charging for...	i'm not sure, well, we're going to leave that alone, there, craig. we're just going to leave that alone. enjoy the oscars, craig. thanks for the call. but i did, richard stedman, want to address craig's first point, and that is about expense and, indeed, you look at some of the least prices that private landowners are ...
Yeah, one of the really interesting findings that we see is, even though there are many fewer hunters, the amount of expenditures spent on hunting have remained relatively stable. So that means each hunter who is participating is actually spending more money than he or she used to, and loss of land is, and loss of free...	yeah one of the really interesting findings that. we. see is even though there are many fewer hunters the, amount of expenditures spent on hunting have remained relatively stable so that means each; hunter who is, participating. is actually spending more money than he or she, used to and, loss of land is and loss of fr...	Yeah one of the really interesting findings, that we see is even though there are many fewer hunters, the amount of expenditures spent on hunting have remained relatively stable, So that means each hunter who is participating is actually spending, more money than he, or she used to; and loss of land is and loss of free...	yeah, one of the really interesting findings that we see is, even though there are many fewer hunters, the amount of expenditures spent on hunting have remained relatively stable. so that means each hunter who is participating is actually spending more money than he or she used to, and loss of land is, and loss of free...
I know in the state where I am now, Pennsylvania, places that are up, for example, in the Northeast part of the county, Pike County, which is within commuting distance to suburban New York City and parts of New Jersey, the land posting rates where it's posted against trespass are up around 90, 95 percent of all private...	i know in the state where i am now pennsylvania places, that are up for example in the; northeast part of the county pike county which is within commuting distance to suburban new york city and parts of new jersey the land posting rates where it's posted against; trespass are up, around 90, 95 percent of all private la...	I know in the. state where, I am now, Pennsylvania places that are up for example in the Northeast part. of the county Pike County, which is. within commuting distance to suburban New York City and parts of New Jersey the land posting rates where it's posted against trespass are up, around 90, 95 percent of all private...	i know in the state where i am now, pennsylvania, places that are up, for example, in the northeast part of the county, pike county, which is within commuting distance to suburban new york city and parts of new jersey, the land posting rates where it's posted against trespass are up around 90, 95 percent of all private...
And if there's a market for it, then landowners are finding a way to capitalize on what's really, I think, more of a lack of social connection issue. If you're well connected in rural areas, chances are you know someone where you can get on to hunt for free, if we're talking primarily about cost of access. But in some ...	and. if there's. a market for it then landowners are finding a way to capitalize on what's really i; think more of a lack of social connection issue if you're well connected in rural areas chances are you know, someone where you can get on to hunt, for free if. we're talking primarily, about cost of access but in some ...	And if there's a market for; it then landowners are finding a way to capitalize on what's, really I think more. of a lack of social connection issue If you're well connected in rural areas chances are you know someone where you can get on to, hunt for free if we're talking. primarily about cost of access But in some pl...	and if there's a market for it, then landowners are finding a way to capitalize on what's really, i think, more of a lack of social connection issue. if you're well connected in rural areas, chances are you know someone where you can get on to hunt for free, if we're talking primarily about cost of access. but in some ...
Christine Thomas, also, perversely the number of hunters is declining because of that more private land being unavailable or unless you've got a lease on it. You're having the public hunting land becoming more and more crowded.	christine thomas also perversely, the number of hunters; is declining because of that, more private land being; unavailable or unless you've got, a lease on it you're, having the public hunting land; becoming more, and. more	Christine Thomas also perversely the number of hunters is declining because of that more private land being, unavailable or unless you've got a lease. on it You're having the public hunting land becoming more and more.	christine thomas, also, perversely the number of hunters is declining because of that more private land being unavailable or unless you've got a lease on it. you're having the public hunting land becoming more and more crowded.
Well, that's absolutely right. And I think what you're seeing in places where there isn't a lot of public land, in Iowa may be one of those places, actually, as opposed to Wisconsin where we've got more than a million acres of federal forests, we've got state forest, we've got county forest. There's a lot of public lan...	well that's absolutely right and i think what you're. seeing in; places, where there isn't a lot of public land in iowa, may be one of those places actually as opposed, to wisconsin where we've got more than. a million acres of federal, forests. we've got state forest we've got county forest there's a lot of public lan...	Well that's absolutely right And I think what you're, seeing in places where there isn't a lot of public land in Iowa, may be one of those places actually as opposed to. Wisconsin where we've got more than a million acres of federal forests we've got state forest we've got county forest There's a lot of public land her...	well, that's absolutely right. and i think what you're seeing in places where there isn't a lot of public land, in iowa may be one of those places, actually, as opposed to wisconsin where we've got more than a million acres of federal forests, we've got state forest, we've got county forest. there's a lot of public lan...
If you go to the Chequamegon National Forest, the most remote place that we have in Wisconsin, the least eroded place that we have in Wisconsin, any time during the fall, and I'm there a lot during the fall, any place you can pull a pickup truck off the side of the road, there's one sitting there. They're bird hunting....	if you go to the chequamegon national forest the most remote place that we have in wisconsin the, least eroded place that we have in wisconsin any time during the fall and i'm there a lot during the fall any place you can pull a pickup truck off the side of the road there's one sitting there they're bird hunting, they'...	If you go to the Chequamegon National Forest the most remote place. that we, have in Wisconsin. the least eroded place that we have in Wisconsin any time during the fall and, I'm there a lot during the fall any place you. can pull a pickup. truck off the side of the road there's one sitting there They're bird hunting T...	if you go to the chequamegon national forest, the most remote place that we have in wisconsin, the least eroded place that we have in wisconsin, any time during the fall, and i'm there a lot during the fall, any place you can pull a pickup truck off the side of the road, there's one sitting there. they're bird hunting....
We're going to take a short break. We're talking about hunting today. And when we come back, we'll also take more of your calls: 800-989-8225, more of your e-mails: talk@npr.org. We'll also get some questions from people here in the audience in Wausau.	we're going to take a short break we're talking about hunting today and when we come, back we'll. also take more of your calls: 800-989-8225, more of your e-mails: talk@npr.org we'll also get some questions. from people here in the audience in	We're going to take a short break We're talking about hunting today And when we come back, we'll also, take more of your calls: 800-989-8225, more of your, e-mails: talk@npr.org We'll also get some questions from people here in the audience in	we're going to take a short break. we're talking about hunting today. and when we come back, we'll also take more of your calls: 800-989-8225, more of your e-mails: talk@npr.org. we'll also get some questions from people here in the audience in wausau.
I'm Neal Conan. You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News.	i'm neal conan you're listening to talk of the nation from npr	I'm Neal Conan You're, listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR.	i'm neal conan. you're listening to talk of the nation from npr news.
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This is TALK OF THE NATION. I'm Neal Conan, coming to you today from Wausau, Wisconsin at the University of Wisconsin Marathon County Theater. We're talking today about hunting. Our guests are Richard Stedman, a professor of rural sociology at Pennsylvania State University, and Christine Thomas, Dean of the College of ...	this is talk of the nation i'm neal conan coming to you today from wausau wisconsin at the, university of wisconsin marathon county theater we're talking today about hunting our guests are richard stedman a professor of rural. sociology at pennsylvania state; university, and christine. thomas dean of the, college of na...	This is TALK; OF THE. NATION I'm Neal Conan coming, to you today from. Wausau Wisconsin at the University of Wisconsin Marathon County Theater We're talking today about hunting Our guests are Richard Stedman a professor of rural sociology, at Pennsylvania State, University and Christine Thomas Dean of the College of Na...	this is talk of the nation. i'm neal conan, coming to you today from wausau, wisconsin at the university of wisconsin marathon county theater. we're talking today about hunting. our guests are richard stedman, a professor of rural sociology at pennsylvania state university, and christine thomas, dean of the college of ...
Good afternoon. My name is Todd Paunke from Wausau. My question is, why won't more urban areas open up to bow hunters to help curb out of control deer populations, especially when we have tax dollars? We use tax dollars to pay for the sharp shooters.	good afternoon my. name is todd paunke from. wausau my question is why won't more urban areas open up to. bow hunters to help curb out of control deer populations especially when we have, tax; dollars? we use tax dollars to pay for the sharp	Good afternoon My name is Todd Paunke from Wausau My question is why, won't more urban areas open up to. bow hunters to help curb out of control deer, populations especially when we have tax dollars? We use tax dollars to pay for the sharp	good afternoon. my name is todd paunke from wausau. my question is, why won't more urban areas open up to bow hunters to help curb out of control deer populations, especially when we have tax dollars? we use tax dollars to pay for the sharp shooters.
Mm Hmmm. Richard Stedman, I'm going to throw that to you. Any idea?	mm hmmm richard stedman i'm going to throw that to, you any	Mm Hmmm Richard Stedman I'm, going to throw that to you Any,	mm hmmm. richard stedman, i'm going to throw that to you. any idea?
Well, I guess a couple of different things are at work. I mean, one, clearly, there is, if not absolute safety issue, there's the perceived safety issue. There's the concern that people are still sort of run amuck in neighborhoods with bows, no matter how committed we know those hunters to be. I guess, though, my other...	well i. guess a couple of different things are at work i. mean one clearly there is. if not, absolute, safety issue there's the perceived safety issue there's the concern that, people are still sort of run. amuck in neighborhoods with bows no matter how committed we know those hunters to. be i guess, though my other, r...	Well I guess a couple, of different, things are. at work I mean one clearly there is, if not absolute safety issue there's the perceived safety issue There's, the concern that people are still sort of run amuck in neighborhoods with bows no matter how. committed we know those hunters to be I guess though my other; resp...	well, i guess a couple of different things are at work. i mean, one, clearly, there is, if not absolute safety issue, there's the perceived safety issue. there's the concern that people are still sort of run amuck in neighborhoods with bows, no matter how committed we know those hunters to be. i guess, though, my other...
I mean there are a number of people who are arguing, really, if you want to save hunting, hunters need to re-articulate their role as wildlife managers and really the only predators that are capable of controlling deer populations or other populations of animals that suffer from over abundance at times. So, I mean, I t...	i mean there are a, number of people who are arguing really if you want to save. hunting hunters need to re-articulate their role, as wildlife managers and really the only, predators that are capable of controlling deer populations or other populations of animals that suffer from, over abundance at times so i mean i th...	I mean there. are a number of people who are, arguing really if you want to save hunting hunters need to re-articulate their role as wildlife managers and really the only predators that are capable of controlling deer, populations or other populations of animals that suffer from over abundance. at times So I mean I thi...	i mean there are a number of people who are arguing, really, if you want to save hunting, hunters need to re-articulate their role as wildlife managers and really the only predators that are capable of controlling deer populations or other populations of animals that suffer from over abundance at times. so, i mean, i t...
Lawsuits, yeah. Let's get another listener on the line. And this Bob. Bob's calling from, is it Empire, Michigan?	lawsuits yeah; let's get another listener on the line and this bob bob's calling from, is it empire	Lawsuits, yeah Let's get another listener on the line And this Bob Bob's calling from is it Empire	lawsuits, yeah. let's get another listener on the line. and this bob. bob's calling from, is it empire, michigan?
It's Empire, Michigan, Neal.	it's. empire michigan	It's Empire Michigan	it's empire, michigan, neal.
Go ahead.	go	Go	go ahead.
How are you?	how, are,	How are	how are you?
Good.			good.
Instead of eliminating stress, many schools are focusing on teaching kids to better handle it - with everything from yoga classes and breathing exercises to therapy dogs, and more time for students to vent.	instead of eliminating stress many schools are focusing on teaching kids to better. handle it. - with everything from yoga classes and breathing exercises to therapy dogs. and more time for students to	Instead of eliminating stress many schools are focusing on; teaching kids to better, handle it - with everything from yoga. classes and breathing exercises to therapy dogs and more time for; students to	instead of eliminating stress, many schools are focusing on teaching kids to better handle it - with everything from yoga classes and breathing exercises to therapy dogs, and more time for students to vent.
I've raised two sons and both of them I've taken out hunting. One's 16, the other's 20. Ever since they've been able to walk, I've taken them out in the woods, and from these experiences they've learned everything from environmentalism to conservation, to overwhelming sense of spirituality. And the whole process of hun...	i've raised two sons and, both of them i've taken out, hunting one's 16, the other's 20. ever since, they've been able to walk i've taken them. out in the woods and from these experiences they've learned everything from, environmentalism, to conservation to overwhelming sense of spirituality and the whole process of hu...	I've raised two sons and both of them I've taken out hunting. One's. 16, the other's 20. Ever since they've been able to walk I've taken them out in the woods and from these experiences they've learned everything from environmentalism to conservation to overwhelming sense of spirituality And, the whole process of. hunt...	i've raised two sons and both of them i've taken out hunting. one's 16, the other's 20. ever since they've been able to walk, i've taken them out in the woods, and from these experiences they've learned everything from environmentalism to conservation, to overwhelming sense of spirituality. and the whole process of hun...
You'll never get that from a TV show. It just gives you an overwhelming sense of your-the symbiotic relationship that you have with the earth, itself. And that's what we have to pass on to all the hunters and all the non-hunters that don't understand what hunting is all about.	you'll never get that from a tv, show it, just gives you an overwhelming sense of your-the symbiotic relationship that you have, with the earth itself and that's what we have to pass on to all the hunters and all the non-hunters that don't understand what hunting. is all	You'll never get that from a TV show It just gives you an overwhelming sense, of your-the symbiotic relationship that you, have; with the earth itself And that's what we have to pass on to all the hunters. and all the non-hunters that don't. understand what. hunting is all	you'll never get that from a tv show. it just gives you an overwhelming sense of your-the symbiotic relationship that you have with the earth, itself. and that's what we have to pass on to all the hunters and all the non-hunters that don't understand what hunting is all about.
And do your sons continue to hunt, Bob?	and. do, your sons continue to hunt	And do your sons continue to hunt	and do your sons continue to hunt, bob?
One is 16 and has hunted ever since he shot his first squirrel and grinned from ear to ear. My other one is 20, who after he shot his first squirrel, actually broke down and sobbed, didn't hunt for eight years. Never forced him to, and now he is training to become a law enforcement officer and this is his first year th...	one is 16 and has hunted ever since he shot his first squirrel and grinned, from ear to ear my other one is 20, who after he shot his, first squirrel actually broke down and sobbed didn't hunt, for eight years never forced him to and now he is training to, become a law enforcement officer, and this is, his first year t...	One is 16 and has hunted ever since he shot his first squirrel and grinned from ear to ear My other one is 20, who after he shot. his first squirrel, actually broke down and sobbed didn't hunt for eight years Never; forced him to and now he is training to become a law enforcement officer and this is his first year that...	one is 16 and has hunted ever since he shot his first squirrel and grinned from ear to ear. my other one is 20, who after he shot his first squirrel, actually broke down and sobbed, didn't hunt for eight years. never forced him to, and now he is training to become a law enforcement officer and this is his first year th...
Mm hmmm. Bob, thanks very much for the call.	mm hmmm, bob thanks very much. for the.	Mm hmmm, Bob thanks very much for the	mm hmmm. bob, thanks very much for the call.
You bet.	you	You	you bet.
Appreciate it. That's a good an introduction as any to our next guest, who's George Meyer, Executive Director of the Wisconsin Wildlife Federation, former secretary of Wisconsin's Department of Natural Resources. He's also with us here at the UW Marathon County Theater.	appreciate it that's a good an introduction as any to our next guest who's george meyer executive director of the wisconsin, wildlife federation former secretary of wisconsin's department of natural resources, he's also with us, here at the uw marathon county	Appreciate it That's a good an introduction. as any to our next guest who's George Meyer Executive Director of the Wisconsin Wildlife Federation former secretary of Wisconsin's. Department of Natural Resources. He's also with us here at. the UW Marathon County	appreciate it. that's a good an introduction as any to our next guest, who's george meyer, executive director of the wisconsin wildlife federation, former secretary of wisconsin's department of natural resources. he's also with us here at the uw marathon county theater.
Thank you for having me.	thank you for having	Thank you for having	thank you for having me.
Wisconsin's Department of Natural Resources relies heavily on hunters to control the deer herd, and for money, as well. What's going to happen to wildlife management if the number of hunters decline?	wisconsin's department of natural resources relies heavily on hunters, to control, the deer herd and for money as well, what's going. to, happen to wildlife. management if the number of hunters	Wisconsin's Department of Natural Resources, relies heavily on. hunters to, control the deer herd and for money as well What's going to happen to wildlife management if the; number of, hunters	wisconsin's department of natural resources relies heavily on hunters to control the deer herd, and for money, as well. what's going to happen to wildlife management if the number of hunters decline?
Well, it's a very real concern. Our deer population in this state is somewhere around 1.5 to 1.7 million deer. We have about 650,000 deer hunters in the state. If that would decline, say in the next 30 years, to half, the deer population in the sate would be out of control. It's a rapidly expanding population and, in f...	well it's a very real concern our deer population, in this, state is somewhere around 1.5 to 1.7 million deer we have about 650,000 deer hunters in the state if that would. decline say in the next 30 years to half the deer population in, the sate would be out of control it's a rapidly expanding population and. in fact ...	Well it's, a very real concern. Our deer population in. this state is somewhere around 1.5 to 1.7 million deer We have, about 650,000 deer hunters in the state If that would decline say in the next 30 years to half the deer population in the sate would be out of control It's a rapidly expanding population and in fact a...	well, it's a very real concern. our deer population in this state is somewhere around 1.5 to 1.7 million deer. we have about 650,000 deer hunters in the state. if that would decline, say in the next 30 years, to half, the deer population in the sate would be out of control. it's a rapidly expanding population and, in f...
Mm hmmm. Talk to us a little bit about the politics of hunting. Obviously, in Wisconsin, I don't think it's a party issue, but broadly speaking, do hunters fall squarely into the Republican camp or the Democratic camp?	mm, hmmm talk to, us a, little bit about the; politics of hunting obviously in wisconsin i don't think it's a party issue but broadly. speaking do hunters fall. squarely into the republican camp or the democratic	Mm hmmm Talk to us a little bit about the politics of hunting Obviously in Wisconsin I, don't think it's a party issue but broadly speaking do hunters fall. squarely into the Republican camp or the Democratic	mm hmmm. talk to us a little bit about the politics of hunting. obviously, in wisconsin, i don't think it's a party issue, but broadly speaking, do hunters fall squarely into the republican camp or the democratic camp?
Well, you know, I look at the demographics of our membership. I mean, clearly, there's hunters across the political spectrum. I think it's a rural, urban issue. I think there's higher populations of deer hunters per capita in rural areas, which tend to be more Republican or Independent, but it is not, in terms of why p...	well you know i look at the demographics of our membership i mean clearly there's hunters across the political spectrum i think it's a rural urban issue i think there's higher populations. of deer hunters per capita in rural areas, which tend to be more republican or, independent, but it is not in terms of why; people ...	Well. you know I look at the demographics of our membership I mean clearly there's hunters across the. political spectrum I. think it's a rural urban issue I think there's higher populations of deer hunters per capita in, rural areas which. tend. to. be more Republican or Independent but it is not in. terms of why peop...	well, you know, i look at the demographics of our membership. i mean, clearly, there's hunters across the political spectrum. i think it's a rural, urban issue. i think there's higher populations of deer hunters per capita in rural areas, which tend to be more republican or independent, but it is not, in terms of why p...
Well, you'd think hunters get support from Republicans on gun issues?	well you'd think. hunters get support from republicans on gun	Well, you'd think. hunters get, support from Republicans, on gun	well, you'd think hunters get support from republicans on gun issues?
Really, it's, the parties, there are wedge issues being used by political parties in various issues. And you see the gun issue being used as a wedge issue, habitat protection may be going the other way.	really it's the parties there are wedge issues being used by political parties, in various issues and you see the. gun issue being used as a wedge issue habitat protection may be going the other	Really it's the parties there are wedge issues being used by political parties in various issues And you see. the gun issue being used as. a wedge issue habitat protection. may be going the other	really, it's, the parties, there are wedge issues being used by political parties in various issues. and you see the gun issue being used as a wedge issue, habitat protection may be going the other way.
Yeah, that might be more a Democratic issue.	yeah that might be more a democratic	Yeah that might. be more a Democratic	yeah, that might be more a democratic issue.
More regulation, that type of thing, so it has been interjected the last ten years, but I think that most hunters, they don't view this as a partisan issue; this is a cultural issue.	more regulation that, type, of; thing so it has been; interjected the last, ten years but i think that most hunters, they. don't view, this as, a partisan issue this, is a cultural,	More regulation that type of thing so it has been interjected the. last, ten years but I think that most, hunters they don't view this as a partisan issue this is, a cultural	more regulation, that type of thing, so it has been interjected the last ten years, but i think that most hunters, they don't view this as a partisan issue; this is a cultural issue.