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For more on the standoff, we're joined by NPR national political correspondent Mara Liasson. Good morning, Mara.	for more on the. standoff we're. joined by. npr national political. correspondent mara liasson good, morning	For more, on the standoff. we're joined by NPR national political correspondent Mara Liasson Good morning	for more on the standoff, we're joined by npr national political correspondent mara liasson. good morning, mara.
Hi, Lulu.	hi	Hi	hi, lulu.
All right. Do Democrats have a strategy here?	all right do democrats have a strategy	All, right Do Democrats have a strategy	all right. do democrats have a strategy here?
They thought they had one. Remember; the mantra before the election was that Trump's world would change because the House of Representatives would have subpoena power. But now we're finding out, what if they issued a subpoena and no one came? I don't think that the House anticipated that he would really stiff them acro...	they thought they had one remember the mantra before the election was that trump's world would change because the house of representatives. would have subpoena power but now we're finding out what if they, issued a subpoena and no. one came? i don't think that the house anticipated; that he would really stiff them acro...	They, thought they had one Remember the mantra; before the. election; was that, Trump's world. would change because the House of, Representatives would have subpoena power But now we're finding out what. if they issued a, subpoena and no one came? I don't. think that the House. anticipated that he would really stiff th...	they thought they had one. remember; the mantra before the election was that trump's world would change because the house of representatives would have subpoena power. but now we're finding out, what if they issued a subpoena and no one came? i don't think that the house anticipated that he would really stiff them acro...
So this is a combination of Bill Barr, the attorney general's, long-standing belief in a very strong executive. He really doesn't think Congress should be investigating the president. And that fits nicely with Trump's, really, lifelong instinct, which is if you're not fighting, you're losing. He also doesn't want the e...	so this, is a combination of. bill barr the. attorney general's long-standing belief. in a very strong executive he really doesn't think congress should be investigating the president and that fits nicely, with trump's really lifelong instinct. which is if you're not fighting, you're losing he also doesn't want the exp...	So. this is a combination of Bill Barr the attorney, general's long-standing belief in, a, very strong executive He really doesn't think Congress should be investigating the. president And that fits nicely with Trump's really lifelong instinct which is if, you're, not, fighting you're losing He also doesn't want the ex...	so this is a combination of bill barr, the attorney general's, long-standing belief in a very strong executive. he really doesn't think congress should be investigating the president. and that fits nicely with trump's, really, lifelong instinct, which is if you're not fighting, you're losing. he also doesn't want the e...
All right, so what can the Democrats do then?	all right so what can the democrats do	All right so what, can the Democrats, do	all right, so what can the democrats do then?
The Democrats can take people who refuse to testify to court. They can find them. But, of course, that takes a very long time. You know, Eric Holder, Barack Obama's attorney general, was held in contempt by Congress, and it took seven years to resolve the issue.	the, democrats can take people who refuse to testify to court they can find them but of course that takes a very long time you know eric, holder barack obama's attorney general was held in contempt by congress and it took seven years to resolve the	The Democrats can take people who refuse to testify to court They can find. them But of course that takes a very long time You, know Eric. Holder Barack. Obama's attorney general was held in contempt by Congress and it took. seven years to resolve, the	the democrats can take people who refuse to testify to court. they can find them. but, of course, that takes a very long time. you know, eric holder, barack obama's attorney general, was held in contempt by congress, and it took seven years to resolve the issue.
But what they can't do, Democrats say, is nothing. They don't want to lay down a precedent that the Congress can't conduct oversight over the executive branch. And that has left a lot of members really frustrated. You have more talk about impeachment now, even though they were pretty comfortable with Nancy Pelosi's for...	but what they can't do democrats say is nothing they don't want to lay down a precedent that the congress can't conduct oversight over the executive. branch and that has left a lot of members really frustrated you have more talk about impeachment now even though, they were pretty, comfortable with nancy pelosi's formul...	But what they can't do Democrats say is nothing They don't want to lay, down a precedent that the Congress; can't conduct oversight over the executive branch And that has left a lot of members really frustrated You have; more talk about impeachment now even though they were pretty comfortable with Nancy Pelosi's formul...	but what they can't do, democrats say, is nothing. they don't want to lay down a precedent that the congress can't conduct oversight over the executive branch. and that has left a lot of members really frustrated. you have more talk about impeachment now, even though they were pretty comfortable with nancy pelosi's for...
But I also should add that this weekend, the first Republican member of Congress - Justin Amash of Michigan became the first Republican to say that Trump's conduct meets the threshold of impeachment.	but i also should add that this weekend the first republican member of. congress - justin amash of michigan became the first republican to, say that trump's conduct meets the threshold of	But I, also should add that this weekend the first Republican member of Congress - Justin, Amash of Michigan became the first Republican to say that, Trump's conduct meets the threshold of	but i also should add that this weekend, the first republican member of congress - justin amash of michigan became the first republican to say that trump's conduct meets the threshold of impeachment.
Meanwhile, Attorney General Barr has appointed a federal prosecutor to review aspects of the investigation into contacts between Russia and the Trump campaign. What is he doing?	meanwhile attorney general barr has appointed. a federal. prosecutor to review aspects of the investigation into contacts between russia and the trump, campaign. what is he	Meanwhile Attorney General Barr has appointed a federal prosecutor to review aspects of the investigation, into contacts between Russia and the Trump, campaign What is he	meanwhile, attorney general barr has appointed a federal prosecutor to review aspects of the investigation into contacts between russia and the trump campaign. what is he doing?
He's doing what President Trump wants him to do, which is investigate the investigators. There are now three Justice Department inquiries, and to see if anything inappropriate happened when that counterintelligence investigation of Trump's campaign advisers and their contacts with Russia started.	he's doing what president trump wants him to do which is investigate the investigators, there are now three justice department inquiries and to see if anything inappropriate happened when that counterintelligence investigation of trump's campaign advisers and their contacts with russia	He's doing what President Trump wants him to do which is investigate the investigators There are now three Justice Department inquiries and to see if anything inappropriate happened when that counterintelligence investigation of Trump's campaign advisers and their contacts with Russia	he's doing what president trump wants him to do, which is investigate the investigators. there are now three justice department inquiries, and to see if anything inappropriate happened when that counterintelligence investigation of trump's campaign advisers and their contacts with russia started.
And Barr has been adopting President Trump's language, saying spying occurred. Spying implies an abuse of power. It's quite different than saying there was legally approved surveillance. And that has revived criticisms that Barr is acting more as the president's private defense lawyer than as the top law enforcement of...	and. barr has been adopting president trump's language saying spying occurred spying implies an abuse of power it's quite different than saying there was legally approved surveillance and that has revived. criticisms that barr is acting more as the president's private defense lawyer than as the, top, law enforcement of...	And Barr has been adopting President Trump's language saying spying occurred Spying implies an abuse of, power It's quite different than saying there was legally approved surveillance And that has revived criticisms that Barr is acting. more as the president's private defense lawyer than as the top law enforcement offi...	and barr has been adopting president trump's language, saying spying occurred. spying implies an abuse of power. it's quite different than saying there was legally approved surveillance. and that has revived criticisms that barr is acting more as the president's private defense lawyer than as the top law enforcement of...
Mara, there's also this report in The New York Times that Trump is considering pardoning some service members who committed war crimes. What do you make of that?	mara there's also this report in the new york times that trump is considering pardoning some service members who committed, war crimes what do you make of	Mara there's also this report in The New York Times that Trump is considering pardoning some, service members who, committed war crimes What. do you make of	mara, there's also this report in the new york times that trump is considering pardoning some service members who committed war crimes. what do you make of that?
Well, it could be a trial balloon. Sometimes he floats the idea of a pardon and it doesn't happen. But critics are saying that if he goes ahead with this, it will only encourage more war crimes.	well it could be, a trial balloon sometimes he floats the idea of a pardon and it doesn't happen but critics are, saying that if he, goes ahead with this it will only encourage more war	Well it could be a. trial balloon Sometimes he, floats, the idea of a pardon and it doesn't, happen But critics are saying that if he goes ahead with, this, it will only encourage more war	well, it could be a trial balloon. sometimes he floats the idea of a pardon and it doesn't happen. but critics are saying that if he goes ahead with this, it will only encourage more war crimes.
And meanwhile, the Democratic field in 2020 continues to grow. There are now 23 people in this field. The sheer size of it - does it pose a problem?	and meanwhile the democratic field in; 2020 continues to grow there. are now 23 people in. this field the sheer size of it - does it pose a	And meanwhile the Democratic. field in 2020 continues to grow There are now 23 people in this field The sheer size of it - does it pose a	and meanwhile, the democratic field in 2020 continues to grow. there are now 23 people in this field. the sheer size of it - does it pose a problem?
I think it poses a problem to the Democratic debate planners because it's really hard to cram that many people on one stage, even in two bunches. But I think very quickly, the field will be winnowed. Already, you can see a kind of normal-sized Democratic field. Top five candidates - that's Biden, Sanders, Warren, Harri...	i think it poses a problem to the. democratic debate planners because, it's, really hard to cram that; many people on, one stage even. in two bunches. but i think very quickly the field will be winnowed already, you can. see a kind of normal-sized democratic field top five candidates - that's biden sanders warren. harr...	I think it poses a problem to the Democratic debate planners because it's really hard to cram, that many people on one stage even in two bunches But I think very quickly the field will be. winnowed Already you can see a kind of normal-sized Democratic field Top five candidates - that's Biden Sanders Warren Harris Butti...	i think it poses a problem to the democratic debate planners because it's really hard to cram that many people on one stage, even in two bunches. but i think very quickly, the field will be winnowed. already, you can see a kind of normal-sized democratic field. top five candidates - that's biden, sanders, warren, harri...
That's NPR national political correspondent Mara Liasson. Thank you so much, Mara.	that's npr. national political. correspondent mara liasson thank you so much	That's NPR national political correspondent Mara Liasson. Thank you so much	that's npr national political correspondent mara liasson. thank you so much, mara.
Thank you.	thank	Thank	thank you.
This is TALK OF THE NATION. I'm Neal Conan in Washington. From saying goodbye to the kids in the morning to leaving a job after 25 years to the end of life, exits are universal. Long or short, big or small, we've all left home or ended friendships or marriages.	this is, talk of. the nation i'm, neal conan in, washington from saying goodbye to the kids in the morning to leaving a job. after 25 years, to the end of life exits are universal long or short big or small we've all left home or ended friendships or.	This is TALK OF. THE NATION I'm Neal Conan in Washington From saying goodbye; to the kids in the; morning to leaving a. job after 25 years to the end of. life exits are universal Long or short. big or small we've. all left home or ended friendships or	this is talk of the nation. i'm neal conan in washington. from saying goodbye to the kids in the morning to leaving a job after 25 years to the end of life, exits are universal. long or short, big or small, we've all left home or ended friendships or marriages.
In a book entitled "Exit," sociologist Sara Lawrence-Lightfoot explores these endings through the stories of people in transition and asks whether exits are as clean and binary as they might first appear or whether they're messier and more complicated. She also wonders whether our small endings - the goodbyes we practi...	in a book entitled "exit" sociologist sara lawrence-lightfoot explores these endings through the stories of people in transition and asks whether exits are. as clean and binary as they might. first. appear or whether they're messier and more complicated she also wonders whether our small, endings - the goodbyes we prac...	In a book entitled "Exit" sociologist Sara Lawrence-Lightfoot explores these endings through the stories of people in, transition and asks whether exits. are as clean and binary as. they, might first appear. or whether they're messier and more complicated She. also wonders whether our small endings - the goodbyes we pr...	in a book entitled "exit," sociologist sara lawrence-lightfoot explores these endings through the stories of people in transition and asks whether exits are as clean and binary as they might first appear or whether they're messier and more complicated. she also wonders whether our small endings - the goodbyes we practi...
Please note this is a rebroadcast. We're not going to be able to take any new calls today. Later in the program, medical emergencies at 40,000 feet. But first Sara Lawrence-Lightfoot. Her book is "Exit: The Endings That Set Us Free." And she joins us here in Studio 3A. Nice to have you with us on TALK OF THE NATION aga...	please, note this is a rebroadcast we're not going to be, able to take any new calls today, later in, the program medical emergencies at, 40,000 feet but. first, sara lawrence-lightfoot her book is "exit: the endings that set us free" and she joins us here in studio 3a, nice to have you with us on talk of the nation	Please note this is a rebroadcast We're. not going to be able to take any new. calls today Later in the program medical emergencies at. 40,000 feet But. first Sara Lawrence-Lightfoot Her, book is "Exit: The Endings That Set Us Free" And she joins us here in Studio 3A Nice to have you with us. on TALK OF THE NATION	please note this is a rebroadcast. we're not going to be able to take any new calls today. later in the program, medical emergencies at 40,000 feet. but first sara lawrence-lightfoot. her book is "exit: the endings that set us free." and she joins us here in studio 3a. nice to have you with us on talk of the nation aga...
Delighted to be here.	delighted to be	Delighted to be	delighted to be here.
And you write in the introduction to your book that some of those big exits, the moments you decided I am finally out of here, big moments in your life, these are some of the most vivid memories that you have.	and you write in the introduction to your book that some of, those big; exits the moments you decided i am finally, out of here big moments in your life these are some of the most vivid memories that you	And you write, in the introduction to your book that some of. those big exits the moments you decided. I am finally out of here big moments in your life these are some of the most vivid memories that you	and you write in the introduction to your book that some of those big exits, the moments you decided i am finally out of here, big moments in your life, these are some of the most vivid memories that you have.
Right. I think all of us who are facing these life-altering moments of leaving have an experience of these things being almost in Technicolor, like old Polaroid photographs. They're vivid. They're clear. It is a moment when, finally, suddenly, we take the leap of faith. Everything comes together. It's no longer opaque,...	right i, think all of us who are facing, these life-altering moments of leaving have, an experience of these things being almost in technicolor like old polaroid photographs they're vivid they're clear it is a moment when finally suddenly we take the leap of faith everything comes together it's no longer opaque. no lon...	Right I think all of us who; are facing these, life-altering moments of leaving have an experience of these things being almost in Technicolor like old Polaroid photographs They're vivid They're clear It is a moment when finally suddenly we take the leap. of faith Everything comes together It's no longer opaque. no, lo...	right. i think all of us who are facing these life-altering moments of leaving have an experience of these things being almost in technicolor, like old polaroid photographs. they're vivid. they're clear. it is a moment when, finally, suddenly, we take the leap of faith. everything comes together. it's no longer opaque,...
Yet you say they're also accompanied by guilt and remorse.	yet you say they're also accompanied by guilt and	Yet. you say they're, also accompanied by. guilt and	yet you say they're also accompanied by guilt and remorse.
Yes, mostly the ways in which our culture kind of sees exits and sees departures. They're often visualized as negative spaces in our lives, as moments of retreat, as next to failure. And so there are not that many ways in which we have ritualized or supported or brought into community this sort of sense that it's OK to...	yes mostly the ways in which our culture kind of sees exits and. sees departures they're often visualized as negative spaces in our lives as moments of retreat as next to failure and; so, there are. not that many ways in which we have ritualized or supported or brought into community this sort of; sense that it's ok to...	Yes mostly the ways in which our culture kind of sees exits and sees departures They're often visualized as negative spaces in our lives as moments of retreat as next to failure And so there are. not that many ways in which we have. ritualized or, supported or brought into community, this. sort of sense that it's OK to...	yes, mostly the ways in which our culture kind of sees exits and sees departures. they're often visualized as negative spaces in our lives, as moments of retreat, as next to failure. and so there are not that many ways in which we have ritualized or supported or brought into community this sort of sense that it's ok to...
(As Debbie Ocean) What's your name?	(as debbie ocean) what's your,	(As Debbie Ocean) What's your	(as debbie ocean) what's your name?
There should be a time. And Justice O'Connor said this in her opinion in a 2003 Grutter v. Bollinger case, also known as the Michigan Law case. However, the issue is the fact that we don't have a colorblind society. We don't live in a colorblind society. We have a long history based on racial discrimination that still ...	there should be a time, and justice, o'connor said this in her opinion in, a 2003 grutter v bollinger case also known as the, michigan law case however the issue; is the fact that we don't have a colorblind. society we don't live in a colorblind society we have a long history based on racial discrimination that still e...	There should be a time And Justice O'Connor said this in her opinion in a 2003 Grutter v Bollinger case also known as the Michigan Law. case However the. issue is the fact that we don't have a colorblind, society We don't live. in a colorblind society, We have a long history based on racial discrimination that still ex...	there should be a time. and justice o'connor said this in her opinion in a 2003 grutter v. bollinger case, also known as the michigan law case. however, the issue is the fact that we don't have a colorblind society. we don't live in a colorblind society. we have a long history based on racial discrimination that still ...
So at the point when our society no longer depends on racial discrimination to advance other people - white people, for example, who have benefited from advantages and privilege based on their race - then, at that point, we can have a colorblind society and maybe colorblind decisions where race-based admissions is no l...	so at the point. when our society no. longer depends on racial discrimination to. advance other people - white people for example who have benefited from advantages and privilege based on their race - then at that point we can have a colorblind society and maybe colorblind decisions where race-based admissions is no lo...	So at the point when, our society no longer depends on, racial discrimination to advance. other people. - white people for example who have benefited from advantages and privilege based on their race - then at that, point, we can have a colorblind society, and, maybe colorblind decisions where; race-based admissions is...	so at the point when our society no longer depends on racial discrimination to advance other people - white people, for example, who have benefited from advantages and privilege based on their race - then, at that point, we can have a colorblind society and maybe colorblind decisions where race-based admissions is no l...
Dana Thompson Dorsey is a scholar at the University of Pittsburgh. Thanks very much for your time.	dana thompson dorsey is a scholar at the university of, pittsburgh thanks very much for your,	Dana Thompson Dorsey is a scholar at the University of Pittsburgh Thanks very much for, your	dana thompson dorsey is a scholar at the university of pittsburgh. thanks very much for your time.
Thank you.	thank	Thank	thank you.
We learn more this week about priests sexually abusing young people in their care, more about the number of victims and more about how Catholic leaders have covered up these crimes. As the scale of the scandal has grown, so has the cost to the Catholic Church. Lawsuits brought by victims have forced dioceses to pay set...	we learn more this week about priests sexually abusing young, people in their care more about the, number of victims and more about how catholic. leaders have covered up these, crimes as the scale of the, scandal has grown so has the cost to the catholic church lawsuits brought by victims have forced dioceses to pay se...	We learn more this week about priests sexually abusing. young people in their care more about the number of, victims and more about how Catholic leaders have covered up these crimes As the scale of the scandal has grown so has the cost to the Catholic Church Lawsuits brought by victims have forced, dioceses to pay sett...	we learn more this week about priests sexually abusing young people in their care, more about the number of victims and more about how catholic leaders have covered up these crimes. as the scale of the scandal has grown, so has the cost to the catholic church. lawsuits brought by victims have forced dioceses to pay set...
After grand jurors in Pennsylvania this week reported what they had learned about the abuse of as many as a thousand children by Catholic priests, they offered some recommendations. Among them, that victims should have more time to sue for damages beyond what statutes of limitation currently allow. That would open the ...	after grand jurors in pennsylvania this week reported what they had learned about the abuse of as many as a thousand children. by catholic priests they offered some recommendations among them that; victims should have more. time to sue for damages beyond what statutes of, limitation currently allow that would open the ...	After, grand jurors in, Pennsylvania this week reported what they had learned about the abuse of as many as a thousand children by Catholic priests they offered some recommendations Among them that victims should have more time to sue for damages beyond what statutes of limitation currently allow That would open. the d...	after grand jurors in pennsylvania this week reported what they had learned about the abuse of as many as a thousand children by catholic priests, they offered some recommendations. among them, that victims should have more time to sue for damages beyond what statutes of limitation currently allow. that would open the ...
The diocese of Helena, Mont., the diocese of Spokane, Wash., the archdiocese of Milwaukee, the diocese of Wilmington, Del.	the diocese of helena mont., the diocese of. spokane wash., the, archdiocese of. milwaukee the diocese of wilmington	The diocese of Helena Mont., the. diocese, of Spokane Wash., the archdiocese, of, Milwaukee the diocese of Wilmington	the diocese of helena, mont., the diocese of spokane, wash., the archdiocese of milwaukee, the diocese of wilmington, del.
Stang says church payments to abuse victims won't make up for their suffering. But it's important, he says, to hold church leaders accountable for their negligence in allowing abuse to happen.	stang says church payments to abuse victims won't make, up for their suffering but it's important he says to hold church leaders accountable for their negligence in allowing abuse to	Stang says church payments to abuse victims won't make up for their, suffering But. it's important he says, to hold church, leaders accountable. for, their negligence in allowing abuse to	stang says church payments to abuse victims won't make up for their suffering. but it's important, he says, to hold church leaders accountable for their negligence in allowing abuse to happen.
I don't like the word healing because it's too much of an individual process. But I think at the end of the day, that accountability is demonstrated by the payment of money.	i don't like the, word; healing because it's too much of an individual process but i think at the end of the day that accountability is demonstrated by the payment of	I don't; like the. word. healing because. it's too much of an individual process But; I think, at the end of the day that accountability, is demonstrated by the payment; of	i don't like the word healing because it's too much of an individual process. but i think at the end of the day, that accountability is demonstrated by the payment of money.
In all, 19 Catholic diocese and religious orders in the United States have filed for bankruptcy protection because of lawsuits brought against them by abuse victims - that from the group Bishop Accountability. The image of the Catholic Church has also taken a hit. The Pew Research firm found earlier this year that the ...	in all. 19 catholic. diocese, and religious orders in, the united states have filed for bankruptcy protection because of lawsuits brought against them by abuse victims, - that from the group bishop accountability. the image of the catholic church has also taken a hit the pew research firm found earlier this year that t...	In all 19 Catholic diocese and religious orders in the United States have filed for bankruptcy protection because of lawsuits brought against. them by abuse, victims - that from the group Bishop Accountability The image of the Catholic Church has also taken a hit The Pew Research firm found earlier this year that the a...	in all, 19 catholic diocese and religious orders in the united states have filed for bankruptcy protection because of lawsuits brought against them by abuse victims - that from the group bishop accountability. the image of the catholic church has also taken a hit. the pew research firm found earlier this year that the ...
One set of Catholic parents said that they were thinking about taking their children out of Catholic schools as a result of this. I mean, that's just a hint. So it will impact everything.	one set of catholic parents said that they were thinking. about taking their. children out of catholic schools as a result of this. i mean that's just a hint so it will impact	One set of Catholic parents said that they were thinking about taking their children out of Catholic, schools as a result of this I mean, that's just a hint So it will impact	one set of catholic parents said that they were thinking about taking their children out of catholic schools as a result of this. i mean, that's just a hint. so it will impact everything.
Indeed, the potential cost of this crisis to the Catholic Church alarms even some who are church critics. Father Thomas Reese, a Jesuit priest who has had harsh words for many in the church hierarchy, worries, for example, that church bankruptcies and huge out-of-court settlements won't necessarily have much of an impa...	indeed the potential cost of this, crisis to the catholic. church alarms even some who are church critics father thomas reese a jesuit priest who has, had harsh words for many in the church hierarchy worries for example, that church bankruptcies and huge out-of-court settlements won't necessarily have much of an impact...	Indeed the potential cost of this crisis to the Catholic Church alarms even some who are church critics Father Thomas Reese. a Jesuit, priest who has had harsh words for many in the church hierarchy worries for example that church bankruptcies and huge. out-of-court settlements won't necessarily have much of an impact ...	indeed, the potential cost of this crisis to the catholic church alarms even some who are church critics. father thomas reese, a jesuit priest who has had harsh words for many in the church hierarchy, worries, for example, that church bankruptcies and huge out-of-court settlements won't necessarily have much of an impa...
You don't punish the bishop. He's not going to be hurt if the diocese goes bankrupt. What you're punishing is the parishioners, the school children and the donors.	you don't punish the bishop he's not going to be hurt if the diocese goes bankrupt what you're punishing. is the parishioners the school children and the	You don't punish the bishop He's not going to be hurt. if the diocese goes bankrupt What; you're punishing is the parishioners, the school children and, the	you don't punish the bishop. he's not going to be hurt if the diocese goes bankrupt. what you're punishing is the parishioners, the school children and the donors.