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"content": "\n This next question is rather interesting, Śrīla Prabhupāda. “Is it not possible for all kinds of spiritualists – be they Advaitans [advocates of oneness of the self with God], Dvaitans [advocates of total difference between the self and God], or Viṣiṣṭādvaitans [advocates of qualified oneness of the self with God] – to come together instead of remaining isolated as warring factions?”\n Yes. This is the process taught by Caitanya Mahāprabhu – to bring all the Dvaitans and Advaitans together on one platform. Everyone has to understand that he is essentially a servant of God. The Advaitan wrongly thinks that he is absolutely one with God, that he himself is God. That is wrong. How can you become God? God is ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇam, full in six opulences. He has all power, all wealth, all beauty, all fame, all knowledge, and all renunciation. So this Advaitan idea is artificial – to think you’re able to become God.\nThe Dvaitans stress that one is utterly different from God, that God is separate from the living entity. But actually, from the Bhagavad-gītā we understand that the living entities are part and parcel of God. And in the Vedas it is said, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13): both God and His creatures are living entities, though God is the chief. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān: the difference between the two is that God maintains all the other living entities. That is a fact. We are maintained, and God is the maintainer. We are predominated – we are not independent – and God is the predominator. But because the predominated living entities are part and parcel of God, in quality they are one with God.\nSo Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s philosophy is acintya-bhedābheda: the living entities are simultaneously one with and different from the Lord. The living entity is one in the sense that he is part and parcel of God. So if God were gold, the living entity would also be gold. That is oneness in quality. But God is great, and we are minute. In that way we are different. That is why Caitanya Mahāprabhu enunciated this philosophy of acintya-bhedābheda: inconceivable, simultaneous oneness with and difference from God. That is real philosophy.\nSo on the platform of this philosophy, everyone can come together, if they are reasonable. If they remain unreasonably stuck up in their own concocted philosophy, then it is difficult. But it is a fact that the living entity is eternally one with and different from God. Find this verse: mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke.",
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"content": "\n\nmamaivāṁśo jīva-loke\njīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ\nmanaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi\nprakṛti-sthāni karṣati\n“The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind.” [Bg. 15.7]",
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"content": "\n So if the living entity is eternally a fragmental part, how can he become one with the whole? The part is never equal to the whole. That is an axiomatic truth. So it is a wrong conception to try to become equal to God. The Māyāvādīs are trying to become God, but that is impossible. Let them try to become godly. Godly means “servant of God.” That will make them perfect. The Vaiṣṇava philosophy teaches that we can remain in our natural position but act as a servant of God. That is perfect. But if the servant tries to become the master, that is artificial.\nOf course, in the spiritual world there often seems to be no difference between the master and the servant. For instance, Kṛṣṇa’s friends the cowherd boys – they do not know that Kṛṣṇa is God. They play with Him on equal terms. When Kṛṣṇa is defeated in play, He has to take His friend on His shoulder and carry him. The friends do not know who is God and who is not God. So that is the advanced spiritual conception. Of course, the difference is always there between God and the part-and-parcel living entities, but by the influence of God’s internal potency, the understanding is covered. We can attain that position after many, many lives of pious activities. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam [10.12.11]:\nitthaṁ satāṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtyā\ndāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para-daivatena\nmāyāśritānāṁ nara-dārakeṇa\nsākaṁ vijahruḥ kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ\nThe cowherd boys are playing with Kṛṣṇa. And who is Kṛṣṇa? He is the essence of brahma-sukha, spiritual bliss. He is Param Brahman, the Supreme Spirit. So the boys are playing with Param Brahman, though to an ordinary man He appears to be an ordinary child. How have the cowherd boys gotten the position of being able to play with Kṛṣṇa? Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ: After many, many lives of pious activities, they have gotten the position of playing with Kṛṣṇa on equal terms.\nSo this is the conception of pure devotional service – that when you go to Goloka Vṛndāvana, Kṛṣṇa’s abode, you love Kṛṣṇa so much that you will not distinguish between the Supreme Lord and His subordinates. The inhabitants of Kṛṣṇa’s abode have such unflinching love for Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana life. The cows, the calves, the trees, the flowers, the water, the elderly men, Kṛṣṇa’s parents Nanda Mahārāja and Yaśodāmayī – everyone is intensely attached to Kṛṣṇa. Everyone’s central point is Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is loving Kṛṣṇa so much that they do not know He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.\nSometimes the residents of Vṛndāvana see Kṛṣṇa’s wonderful activities and think, “Kṛṣṇa must be some demigod who has come here.” They never recognize that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead – or if they do, Kṛṣṇa makes them immediately forget. When Kṛṣṇa manifested His pastimes on earth some five thousands years ago, He passed through many dangerous situations – so many demons were coming – and mother Yaśodā would chant mantras to protect Kṛṣṇa, thinking, “He may not be put into some calamity.” Kṛṣṇa’s family and friends never understood that Kṛṣṇa is God. Their natural love for Kṛṣṇa was so intense. Therefore Vṛndāvana life is so exalted. As Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught, ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeṣa-tanayas tad-dhāma vṛndāvanam: First of all, Kṛṣṇa – Vrajendra-nandana, the son of Nanda Mahārāja – is ārādhya, worshipable. Then, tad-dhāma vṛndāvanam: His dhāma, or abode – Vṛndāvana – is equally worshipable.\nSo these facts pertain to a higher standard of understanding. Only a devotee can understand that to become one with God is not a sublime idea. In Vṛndāvana the devotees want to become the father or mother of God – to control God with love. This fact the Māyāvādīs, or Advaitavādīs, cannot understand. Only pure devotees can understand these things. What is the benefit of becoming one with God?\nEven other Vaiṣṇava philosophies cannot explain the higher relationships with God, which Caitanya Mahāprabhu explained. These are vātsalya-rasa [parenthood], and mādhurya-rasa [conjugal love]. Caitanya Mahāprabhu especially taught that our relationship with Kṛṣṇa can be in conjugal love, madhurya-rasa.\nBut as for our general understanding, Lord Caitanya introduced the philosophy of acintya-bhedābheda – simultaneously one with and different from the Lord. That is explained by Kṛṣṇa in Bhagavad-gītā [15.7]: mamaivāṁśo … jīva-bhūtaḥ – the living entities are part and parcel of God. So we are one with God, since we have God’s qualities in minute degree. But God is the master, and we are always subordinate. Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān: we are protected, we are maintained, we are predominated. That is our position. We cannot attain the position of predominator. That is not possible.",
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https://vedabase.io/en/library/transcripts/710806sb-london/
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"content": "\n[poor audio]\n It is all right? Working?",
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"content": "\n Yes. It's working.",
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"content": "\n Where is spectacle? Yes. Chant.",
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"content": "\n Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. [Prabhupāda and devotees repeat]",
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"content": "\n\njanmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ svarāṭ\ntene brahma hṛdā ya ādi-kavaye muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ\ntejo-vāri-mṛdāṁ yathā vinimayo yatra tri-sargo 'mṛṣā\ndhāmnā svena sadā nirasta-kuhakaṁ satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi\n[SB 1.1.1]\nSo Vyāsadeva is offering his obeisances to satyaṁ param, the Absolute Supreme Truth, not to the relative truth. Everyone has to offer obeisances to somebody. Somebody... In our practical life, at least, we have to offer obeisances to the police constable. When you go on the street, as soon as they, \"Stop!\" so we have to obey. So how you can avoid obeying? They are saying that \"We don't believe in God,\" \"God is dead,\" \"I am God.\" But why you are offering obeisances even to the small constable? That means you have to offer your obeisances to somebody. That is your position.\nBut we are offering obeisances to the relative truth. Relative truth means... That has been explained here that tejo-vāri-mṛdāṁ yathā vinimayo yatra tri-sargo 'mṛṣā. We are offering obeisances to a temporary manifestation of tejo-vāri-mṛdāṁ vinimayaḥ. Tejaḥ means fire, vāri means water, and mṛt means earth. So you take earth, mix with water, and put it into fire. Then grind it, so it becomes mortar and the brick, and you prepare a very big skyscraper and offer obeisances there. Yes. \"Oh, such a big house, mine.\" Tri-sargo 'mṛṣā.\nBut there is another place: dhāmnā svena nirasta-kuhakam. We are offering here obeisances to the bricks, stone, iron. Just like in your country especially—in all Western countries—there are so many statues. The same thing, tejo-vāri-mṛdāṁ vinimayaḥ. But when we install Deity, actually the form, eternal form of Kṛṣṇa, nobody offers obeisances. They'll go to offer obeisances to the dead. Just like in British Museum: they are standing in queue to offer obeisances to a dead body. It has no value, but they are wasting time there. But here, if they are invited, \"Oh, they are worshiping idol. Why shall I go? Why shall I go there?\" This is called illusion. They are actually doing that, obeisances, but not to the Supreme Personality of Godhead.\nVyāsadeva says that \"I offer my obeisances to the Supreme Absolute Truth.\" Satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi [SB 1.1.1]. There is no more truth beyond that. And as Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. Mattaḥ, \"Beyond Me there is no more superior power.\" Mattaḥ parataraṁ na anyat. So Vyāsadeva is offering his obeisances to the person above whom there is nobody. God means controller, I have several times explained. But here in our experience we see that one controller is controlled by another controller. Nobody is absolute controller. Therefore nobody is Absolute Truth. But there is..., there must be the Absolute Truth. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1], as it has begun, \"the source of all emanations.\"\nNow, what is that source of emanation? What is the nature? One has to accept the cause and effect. As we have got experience, in everything there is a cause and the effect. So the supreme cause, supreme cause means who has no more cause—sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1]. I am caused by my father, my father is caused by his father. His father, his father..., go on making research, who is the ultimate father. When you come... There must be some ultimate father.\nJust like I have my father, my father has got father, his father... We can see up to two, three generation upwards, and beyond that, we cannot see. That does not mean that the great-grandfather had no father. There must have been some father. Is it very unreasonable? Anyone can understand. Although I cannot see with my limited potency, but with my knowledge, reasonable knowledge, I can understand that either he may be great-grandfather or above that, above that, he must have some father.\nSo Lord Brahmā is called therefore pitāmaha, \"grandfather,\" because he is the original father within this universe. He is the first created being, and he begot so many children. So all the living entities, they are born of Brahmā. He is called sṛṣṭi-kartā. Sṛṣṭi-kartā means \"the creator of this universe.\" And there are innumerable universes. In each universe there is one Brahmā, and all these Brahmās are also created by Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. Therefore viṣṇu-tattva is the Absolute Truth. Now it will be explained in the purport.\nRead.",
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"content": "\n Shall I take up where we left off yesterday?",
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"content": "\n Yes.",
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"content": "\n \"Śrī Vyāsadeva asserts herein that Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the original Personality of Godhead, and all others are His direct or indirect plenary portions or portion of the portion. Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī has even more explicitly explained the subject matter in his Kṛṣṇa Sandarbha, and Brahmā, the original living being...\"",
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"content": "\n Jīva Gosvāmī has got six sandarbhas, theses: Bhagavat-sandarbha, Kṛṣṇa-sandarbha, Tattva-sandarbha, Prīti-sandarbha, like that. So these books are... I don't think it is published in English. So these sandarbhas are so philosophically discussed that throughout the whole world, there is not a single philosopher who can defy these Jīva Gosvāmī's six sandarbhas. Our this Gauḍīya-sampradāya...\nWe belong to Gauḍīya-sampradāya—Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, from the disciplic succession of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. We have got immense literature to understand God. One who wants to understand God through philosophy, science, argument, logic, so to supply them material, we have got immense literature, Vedic literature. So one of them is mentioned here, Kṛṣṇa-sandarbha, what is Kṛṣṇa.\nGo on.",
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"content": "\n \"And Brahmā, the original living being, has explained the subject of Śrī Kṛṣṇa substantially in his treatise named Brahma-saṁhitā. In the Sāma-veda Upaniṣad it is also stated that Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the divine son of Devakī.\"",
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"content": "\n Some of the foolish scholars, they say that Kṛṣṇa was a, I mean to say, powerful..., what is called? Aborigine. And the Kṛṣṇa worshipers have taken Him because He was very powerful. Kṛṣṇa is always powerful. But they have misinterpreted in this way. Kṛṣṇa is mentioned in the Vedas. Just like these books, Brahma-saṁhitā. Brahma-saṁhitā is only description of Kṛṣṇa, and this book was composed by Lord Brahmā. Nobody knows how many millions of years ago this book was composed, but we understand that it was composed by Brahmā on the authority of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu.\nOur process is to take knowledge from the authority. We don't bother whether Brahma-saṁhitā was actually written by Brahmā or not. The so-called scholars and anthropologists and—what is called?—archaeologists, they may go on talking, but we have got a very nice process: to receive knowledge through paramparā system, Vedic succession, disciplic succession.\nSo Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was traveling in the southern part of India, South India, Ādikeśava Mandira, there was a temple. Still that temple is there. He found out this Brahma-saṁhitā in handwritten. Formerly, there was no printing press, so any important Vedic literature was being copied. Suppose you have got some copy. I want it, so I borrow from you the book, and I copy in my handwriting or I engage somebody who has got good handwriting. In this way, in Vṛndāvana, still there are so many handmade, handwritten literatures.\nThey have opened one association, one society. They are collecting all this handwritten literature. So this handwritten literature, Brahma-saṁhitā, was collected by Caitanya Mahāprabhu from a temple in South India, and He delivered to His immediate disciples, that \"This is Brahma-saṁhitā, written by Brahmā. It is the summary of the Bhāgavata, Śrīmad-Bhāgavata.\"\nSo Caitanya Mahāprabhu gives reference of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam with Brahma-saṁhitā. That means Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also is eternal. They are not man-made, manufactured books. The Vedic literature means, as it is stated in this verse, tene brahma hṛdā. Brahma means Vedic literature, śabda-brahma. So He distributed the... Vāsudeva, original person, Absolute Truth, He, I mean to say, transferred this Vedic knowledge. Tene brahma hṛdā.\nBrahmā was alone. He could not see Kṛṣṇa eye to eye, but īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Kṛṣṇa is everyone's heart, so He taught him from within. Kṛṣṇa's name is Caitya-guru, \"guru, spiritual master, from within.\" So Kṛṣṇa is trying to help us from within, and He manifests again externally also as spiritual master, directly teaching. So from within, from without, He is trying to help us. Kṛṣṇa is so kind. From within and without. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye [SB 1.1.1].\nSo this Brahma-saṁhitā was written by Lord Brahmā, and in Brahma-saṁhitā the name of Kṛṣṇa is there. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1], beginning. That is the fifth chapter. There were hundred chapters. Only fifth chapter is available. So in the beginning of that fifth chapter, Brahmā says, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. So how these rascals can conclude that Kṛṣṇa was liv..., some years, some hundred or five hundred years ago there was a beel[?] boy, he was very powerful.\nSo in this way, these rascal so-called scholars, they are misleaded public. Therefore we call them simply rascals. They do not know what is the truth, and still, they write books, they write commentaries unauthorizedly and mislead public. This is going on. Kṛṣṇa is not manufactured. In the Brahma-saṁhitā there is complete description of Kṛṣṇa:\nīśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ\nsac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ\nanādir ādir govindaḥ\nsarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam\n[Bs. 5.1]\nThe cause of all causes. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Vedānta-sūtra says, \"The Absolute Truth is that which is the origin, original cause.\" Original cause. The scientists, they are trying to find out the original cause of creation, but they are creating their own imagination. \"There was a chunk, and it burst out, and then planets came out.\" Like that. [laughter] And wherefrom this chunk came, you nonsense? So this is going on.\nSo if you actually want knowledge, then you have to take knowledge by this disciplic succession. Because you cannot speculate. By speculation, you can never arrive to the Absolute Truth. That is not possible.\nathāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvayaṁ\nprasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi\njānāti tattvaṁ bhagavan-mahimno\nna cānya eko 'pi ciraṁ vicinvan\n[SB 10.14.29]\nCiraṁ vicinvan. Ciram means perpetually you can speculate, but you cannot understand what is God. That is not possible. You have to know God from a person who knows God or God personally. Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's name is mentioned in the Bhāgavata..., Brahma-saṁhitā. That means Brahmā knew Kṛṣṇa. That means Kṛṣṇa was before Brahmā's birth, original. Aham evāsam agre. Before creation, Kṛṣṇa was. Not that Kṛṣṇa is a product of this material creation.\nJust like we are product of this material creation. This body, everyone knows it is a product of material creation. My father and mother created this body. My father and mother's body also created by somebody, somebody, somebody. Kṛṣṇa's body is not like that. Kṛṣṇa's body is beyond creation—aham evāsam agre. Because there was no creation, and Kṛṣṇa was existing before creation, then how you can say Kṛṣṇa's body is material? That is not possible.\nSo when there was no material creation, Kṛṣṇa was there. Therefore His body is not... Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma karma ajo 'pi san avyayātmā: \"I am born,\" avyayātmā, \"eternal body; still, I take birth.\" Bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san: \"I am the Lord of everyone; still, I appear.\" These things are to be understood. And if we can understand Kṛṣṇa, janma karma me divyam... [Bg. 4.9].\nThese are all transcendental knowledge. They are not ordinary knowledge. Divyam, transcendental. His appearance, His disappearance, His work, His activity, His pastimes, they are all transcendental. So anyone who can try to understand Kṛṣṇa in His transcendental position beyond creation, beyond creation...\nEven Śaṅkarācārya, the impersonalist, he says, nārāyaṇa paraḥ avyaktāt: \"Nārāyaṇa is beyond this material creation.\" Avyakta. Avyakta means there is a total stock of material elements beyond this universe. There are so many things to be learned. This universe we see just like a ball, and this ball is covered by layers of water, fire, air, earth, like that. Circling. And each layer is ten times bigger than the previous layer. In this way the universe is covered.\nAnd beyond that covering, there is another sky. We are prisoned here within this universe. We are thinking that we are very free to move in the sky with, what is called, sputniks. But you cannot go beyond your limitation. That is not possible. They are going to the moon planet, again coming back. You see?\nThat is our conditional life, that you are conditioned, packed up under certain regulations. If you violate, then you are punishable. You cannot violate. You have to remain within the conditions of material nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama... [Bg. 7.14]. You cannot violate. If you want to violate the laws of nature, then you will create another difficulty. Another difficulty. [end]",
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https://vedabase.io/en/library/transcripts/710622r1-moscow/
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"content": "",
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"content": "\nAudio has speed fluctuations throughout.",
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"content": "\n Modern sociology is targeting the state or the people as the owner of a certain state, but our Vedic conception is īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ [Īśo mantra 1]: \"Everything is owned by Īśa, the Supreme Controller.\" Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā: \"What is given by Him, allotted to you, you enjoy that.\" Mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam: \"Do not encroach upon others' property.\" This is Īśopaniṣad, Vedas. And the same idea is explained in different Purāṇas.\nSo the Vedas can give you... The other day I was reading in the..., that paper, Moscow News, there was a Congress, Communist Congress, and the president declared that \"We are ready to get others' experience to improve.\" So I think the Vedic concept of socialism or communism will much improve the idea of Communism.\nJust like we are thinking in terms of human beings, the commu..., socialistic state, that \"Nobody should starve. Everyone must have his food.\" And in the Vedic conception of gṛhastha, householder, it is recommended there that a householder shall see that even a lizard living in the room or even a snake living in that house should not starve.\nThey should be also given food. And what to speak of others? The gṛhastha, before taking his lunch, he is recommended to stand on the road and declare that \"If anybody is still hungry, please come. Food is ready.\" Then, if there is no response, then the proprietor of the household life, he takes his lunch.\nIn this way there are so many good concept about this socialistic idea of communism. So I thought that these ideas might have been distributed to some of your thoughtful men. Therefore I was anxious to speak with you.",
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"content": "\n Yes, you know what is interesting... As it is here in our country, with our great interest in the history of old, old god, from this point of view our institute translated into Russian and published many, I must say, literary monuments of great Indian culture. I will have a pleasure to present you a copy of a booklet which was written here by me and my colleagues. It's account of Soviet studies of India. And here there is chapter, chapter second, \"Studies of Ancient Indian Texts in the USSR...\"\nYou'll be interested to discover we published not all, but some, some in exceptions, Purāṇas, we published [indistinct] of them; then some parts of Rāmāyaṇa, eight volumes in Russian, Mahābhārata. We have also second edition of Mahābhārata, translated by different people. Kabukare Artha-śāstra[?] also was translated in full and published.\nManu-smṛti also translated in full and published with Sanskrit commentaries. And such is a great interest, I think that all these publication was sold in a week. Now quite completely out of stock, this. It was impossible to get them in book market after month, such a great interest among reading people here in Moscow and the USSR towards ancient Indian culture. And from this point of view we published, I must say, a lot of things, a lot of things.",
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"content": "\n Now, amongst these Purāṇas, the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is called the Mahā-purāṇa.",
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"content": "\n Mahā-purāṇa.",
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"content": "\n Yes. So we have translated in English the full, with the original Sanskrit text, its transliteration, an English equivalent for each word, then translation, and then purport, explanation of the verse. In this way there are 18,000s of verses in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.\nAnd the ācāryas, the great saintly sages who are the preachers of this Bhāgavatam throughout India, their opinion is that it is the ripened fruit of the Vedic desire tree. Nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalaṁ idam [SB 1.1.3]. And it is accepted by all, I mean, Indian scholars, and especially Lord Caitanya, He preached this Bhāgavata. So we have got that, complete, in English translation. If you want to see some of them, we can show you.",
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"content": "\n It seems to me that in the Moscow and Leningrad libraries we have nearly all of major texts of ancient Indian culture, beginning from Vedas, original text in Sanskrit. For instance, we have in Lenin Library nearly six or eight editions of...",
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"content": "\n [aside:] You have not brought any books? Eh?",
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"content": "\n ...Manu-smṛti.",
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"content": "\n You have not brought any books? Bhāgavata?",
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"content": "\n Editions is there. Especially in Leningrad, you know, in Leningrad we have...",
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{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n ...about, Leningrad branch, Leningrad branch of our Institute—because Institute was, Imperial Russia, founded in Leningrad—so in Leningrad now we have now a branch of our Institute dealing mainly...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n ...with the history of Asiatic culture. We have a million... [aside:] Thank you very much. Here is a sample account of our book. You will find here some account of what has been translated and what else is being done in the history of Indian philosophy, and now with this Indian philosophy, history of Indian religion, and now with this Indian..., what is Hinduism now, just now in India also. It is very simple account of...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Hinduism is a very complex term. [laughs]",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n Oh, yes, Hinduism. It is not all... It is really... To my understanding it is not religion from European point of view. It is a really a way of life...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n ...religion, Indian, a way of philosophy, a way of life, a religion, everything...",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n No, this Hinduism, Hindu, this word, is not a Sanskrit word. It is given by the Muhammadans. You know there is a river, Indus, which is..., Sanskrit name is Sindhu. Sindhu.",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n Yes. Oh, yes, yes, yes.",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n These Muhammadans, they pronounce \"s\" as \"h.\" \"Hindus,\" \"Hindus.\" Instead of \"Sindhus,\" they made it \"Hindus.\" So Hindu is a term which is not found in the Sanskrit dictionary.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n But it has come into use. Real, I mean to say, cultural institution is called varṇāśrama, four varṇas and four āśramas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatri, vaiśya, śūdra—these four varṇas—and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. So according to Vedic concept of life, unless people take to this system or institution, institute of varṇa and āśrama, four varṇas and four āśramas, actually he does not become a civilized human being.\nThis... One has to take this process, four divisions of varṇas and four..., four division of social order and four divisions of spiritual order. That is called varṇāśrama. So India's culture is based on these four..., eight system, varṇa and āśrama.",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n Varnāśrama.",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n Varṇa, varṇāśrama. And in the Bhagavad-gītā—perhaps you have read Bhagavad-gītā—there is also the statement, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ [Bg. 4.13]. It is... This system is created originally by Viṣṇu.\n[break] So as everything is creation of the Supreme, they cannot be changed. That is prevalent everywhere, that a... Sun. Sun is creation of the Supreme. So sunshine is here in America, in Russia, in India—everywhere. Similarly, this varṇāśrama system is prevalent everywhere, in some form or other.\nJust like the brāhmaṇas. The brāhmaṇas means the most intelligent class of men, brain, brain of the society. Then the kṣatriyas, the administrator class. Then the vaiśyas, the productive class, and the śūdras, the worker class. These four classes of men are everywhere present in different names. And because it is creation by the original creator, so it is prevalent everywhere, varṇāśrama-dharma. [break]\nSo have you seen this little..., how we are translating this? You can see little. Original śloka, its transliteration, then its English equivalent, then translation, then purport. Each and every verse is being done like that, whole Bhāgavatam Purāṇa.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n But you know what is interesting to... It is the opinion of some European and old, old Russian scholars, this varṇāśrama system...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n...is a bit late creation. If you would trace the old sūtras, texts, of Vedic literature, you would find much more simple and egalitarian society. And there is an opinion that this varṇāśrama system was introduced into Indian society on the late stage of Vedic era, but not from the beginning, about... If you would analyze scientifically the old texts, you'll find that... [break]...human estimations. [laughs] As many brains, as many estimations...",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n [laughs] That's it.",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n ...about the duration of this period. Because unfortunately the old classic India we have not so much information.",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n But so far... So far we are concerned, this Bhagavad-gītā... It is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam [Bg. 4.13]. Now, this Bhagavad-gītā was spoken five thousand years ago, and in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that \"This system of Bhagavad-gītā was first spoken by Me to the sun-god.\" So if you take estimation of that period, it comes forty millions of years. So whether the European scholar can trace out the history of at least for five thousand years together, not to speak of forty millions?",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n So we have got evidences that this varṇāśrama system is current at least for the five thousand years, varṇāśrama system. And this varṇāśrama system is mentioned in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa also: varnāśramācaravata puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān\n[Cc. Madhya 8.58]. Varnāśrama acaravata. So that is stated in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa.\nAnd so varṇāśrama-dharma is not a..., within any historical period calculated in the modern age. It is natural. And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam the comparison is given, just like in your body, in my body, there are four divisions: the face, facial, or the brain division, and the arms division, the belly division and the leg division. Similarly, by nature's way these four divisions are existing in the social body. You may take history wherever you begin, but this is existing. A class of men, they are considered to be brain. A class of men, they are considered to be the arms, administrators. And a class of men, they are called productive class. So there is no need of tracing the history. It is naturally existing from the day of creation.",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n According to so many... You have told that in any society there are four divisions, but the case is not so easy to distinguish. For instance, one can group..., one can group, group together, different social class and professional groups into four divisions in any society. There's no difficulty. Only difficulty, for instance, in socialist society of our country and other socialist society, how can you distinguish productive group and workers?",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n Just like you belong to the intelligent class of men.",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n Intelligent, yes, so...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n So this is a division.",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n Yes, intelligent class, for instance, brāhmaṇas, if you can put together also with intelligentsia under the brāhmaṇas.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Then administrative staff...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n ...everywhere.",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n Kṣatriya.",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n From top to... From top to collective farm, for instance, is kṣatriyas. But who would be here vaiśya and who śūdra? That is the difficulty, because all others will workers, workers, anywhere—factory workers, collective farm workers and so on. So from this point of view...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n From this point of view...",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n ...there is a great distinction, in my opinion, between socialist society and all societies preceding socialist. Because in a modern Western society you can group all social professions, classes, [indistinct] conditionally, you know, at least you can, the brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, kṣatriyas... Excuse me... Then this vaiśya, this productive class, is owners...",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n That is...",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n ...of the means of production...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n ...these factory owners, for instance.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n And the śūdras are workers, menial workers. But here you have no vaiśyas from this point of view, because you have administrative staff... In fact, there is administrative staff. You can call them kṣatriyas. And then śūdras, that's workers themselves. But not this intermediate class.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n That is stated, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: \"In this age, practically all men will be śūdras.\" That is... That is predicted. But if there are simply śūdras, then the social order will be disturbed. You... Just like in spite of your state of śūdras, a brāhmaṇa is found here. And that is necessity. So if you do not divide the social order in such a way, then there will be chaos.\nThat is the scientific estimation of the Vedas. You may... You may belong for the time being to the śūdra class, but to maintain the social order you have to train some of the śūdras to become brāhmaṇa, some of the śūdras to become kṣatriyas. It cannot depend on the śūdras. Then there will be chaos. Neither you can depend only on brāhmaṇa.\nJust like to fulfill the necessities of your body there must be a portion called the brain, there must be a portion called the arms, there must be a portion called the stomach, or the belly, and there must be a portion which is called the leg. The leg is also required, the brain is also required, the arm is also required—for cooperation, to fulfill the mission of the whole body. So any, any society you conceive, unless there are these four divisions, there will be chaos. It will be..., not be properly, I mean to say, going on, smoothly going on. There will be some disturbance. Brain must be there.\nSo at the present moment there is scarcity of brain. I am not talking of your state or my state. I am taking the world as it is. The brain... Formerly the Indian administration was going on in monarchy. Just like this picture. This picture is a kṣatriya king. Before his death he renounced his, I mean to say, royal order, and he came to the forest to hear about self-realization.\nSo if you want to maintain the peace and prosperity of the whole worldly social order, you must create a class of men very intelligent, a class of men very expert in administration, a class of men very expert in production and a class of men to work. That is required. You cannot avoid it. That is the Vedic conception. Mukha-bāhūru-padebhyaḥ. They say, mukha... Mukha means this face. Bahu means the arm. Uru means this, this, on our waist. And pada.\nSo anywhere, either you take this state or that state—doesn't matter—unless there is a smooth, systematic establishment of these four orders of life, the state or the society will not go very smoothly.",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n Generally it seems to me that this old varṇāśrama system to some extent practiced the nature of division of labor in ancient society. So now division of labor among people in any society is much more complicated and sophisticated. So it would be very...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Not complicated.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n ...conditionally[?] to group them in four classes, because...",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n The, the confusion, confusion has come into existence because in India, in later days, the son of a brāhmaṇa, without having the brahminical qualification, claimed to be brāhmaṇa, and others, out of superstition or traditional way, they were accepted as brāhmaṇa. Therefore the Indian social order has disrupted. But our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are picking up from everywhere brāhmaṇas—everywhere—because the world needs the brain of a brāhmaṇa.\nJust like Mahārāja Parīkṣit, although he was a monarch, he had a body of learned sages and brāhmaṇas to consult—advisory body. It is not that the monarchs were independent. In the history it is found that some of the monarchs were not in order. They were dethroned by the brahminical advisory committee. Although the brāhmaṇas, they did not take part in politics, but they would give advice to the monarch how to, I mean to say, execute the royal function. Just like not..., not very old, very, say, about... What is the age of, I mean to say, Ashoka? Say about thousands of years ago.",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n As we call from our... In our terminology we call in ancient and medieval India...",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n Ancient and medieval India, and old and feudal India, you are right, this was very often. And from brāhmaṇa, brāhmaṇas, from brāhmaṇas the major part of height is religious stuff, in religious departments. Even Mogul emperors, there were brāhmaṇas who advised [indistinct] Mogul emperors...",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n ...in administration...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n ...and such like.",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n Our predecessor ācārya, Rūpa Gosvāmī, he was finance minister in the Muhammadan government. He was... When he resigned, the Nawab was not very satisfied, that \"I cannot relieve you because you are my right-hand man. If you resign all of a sudden in this way, then I shall arrest you.\" There is a long history. So that's a fact. The brāhmaṇas were kept.\nSo the advisory committee of the king... Now, as I was going to speak, Chandragupta, Chandragupta, just the latest Hindu king, Chandragupta... Chandragupta is the age of Alexander the Great, because at that time, during Chandragupta's..., little before Chandragupta, Alexander the Great from Greece, they went India and conquered some portion. So this Chandragupta, when he became emperor, he had his prime minister, Canakya. Perhaps you heard this name, Canak... Ca-na-kya.",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n Canakya. Oh, yes.",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n Yes. He was a great politician, brāhmaṇa, and under whose name in New Delhi all the foreign embassies, they are flocked together. Yes. It is called Canakya Purī.",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n Hm-hm. Canakya Purī, yes, I know.",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n So this Canakya Paṇḍita was a great politician and brāhmaṇa. And as brāhmaṇa, he was vastly learned. He has got some moral instruction; they're very valuable, still going on. In India schoolchildren are taught. So this Canakya Paṇḍita, although he was prime minister, he maintained his brahminical spirit. He was not accepting any salary, yes, because for brāhmaṇas to accept salary, it is understood that he becomes a dog. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata. He can advise, but he cannot accept. So he was living in a cottage, but he was prime minister.\nSo this brahminical culture, the brahminical brain, is the standard of Vedic civilization. Just like Manu-smṛti. Manu-smṛti... You do not know; you cannot trace out the history, when Manu-smṛti was written. But Manu-smṛti is considered so perfect that it is the Hindu law. The Hindus are governed by Manu-smṛti. There was no need of passing daily a new law by the legislative to adjust this social order. You see? The law given by Manu was so perfect that it can be applicable for all the time. This is perfect. Tri-kāla-jñāḥ. The word is there, tri-kāla-jñāḥ: past, present, future.",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n But... I am sorry to interrupt you, but originally, to my knowledge, original Indian society, when, in the second half of Indian society, when in Calcutta by order of British administration was codified, so-called, you know, remember, \"Jantu Law,\" they called, a big digest of Hindu law, there was a lot of change...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n ...called in.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes, they manufactured another...",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n And this, the actual Hindu law which was used by Hindus, they're quite different from original Manu-smṛti.",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n No, they have now made changes. Just like our late Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, he made some Hindu code. He introduced in that Hindu code the right of divorcing, husband and wife. But these were not in Manu-saṁhitā. And, of course, they are changing. If you like, you can change. But the social order also not exactly the same as it was before.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Oh, yes.",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n And so many things. So they're changing. But before this modern age, the whole Hindu society was being governed by the Manu-smṛti. Manu-smṛti, yes.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n In all periods in India...",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n Manu-smṛti. Now they are changing so many. They... Strictly speaking, the modern Hindus, they are not strictly according to the Hindu scripture.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Oh, yes.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n No. They are not... So our point is, we are not going to bring back the old type of Hindu society. It is not that. Our...",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n It is impossible.",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n It is impossible. Our idea is that best ideas from the original idea. Just like in the Bhāgavata there is a description of communistic idea, and it is being described to Mahārāja Yudhisthira. So if there is something good, good experience, why it should not be adopted? That is our point of view.\nAnd besides that, in the modern civilization they are missing one point: the aim of human life, scientifically. The aim of human life is self-realization, ātmā-tattvam. It is said, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ yāvan na jijñāsa ātmā-tattvam [SB 5.5.5]. Unless the human society comes to the point of self-realization, whatever they are doing, they are being defeated, parābhava. I think you know this word, parābhava. Parābhava. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ.\nActually it is happening so. The modern society, human society, there is advancement, economic advancement, so many things, advancement. Still, in the matter of keeping peace and tranquillity there is fight—individually, socially, politically, nationally. So if we think very cool-headed, then in spite of so much improvement in so many branches of knowledge, we are keeping the same mentality of quarreling. That is also visible in lower animal society.\nSo our conclusion, according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that this body, human body, it is not meant for working very hard for sense gratification. In the modern civilization the ultimate goal, aim, is sense gratification. That's all. Beyond that, they do not know anything more. They do not know what is next life. There is no department of knowledge or science, scientific department, to study what is there after life, after finishing this body. That is a great, I mean to say, department of knowledge.\nIn the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that dehino 'smin yathā dehe [Bg. 2.13]. Dehe. Deha means this body. So there is a dehinaḥ who owns the body, dehi. So dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. The dehi, the owner of the body, is within, and the body's changing from one form to another. The body of a child, baby, a certain type of form, it changes into another type of form when he's child, another type when boy, another type when he's young, another type, he's old. This is going on. But the owner of the body existing. Similarly, when this body will be completely changed, another body he will accept.\nSo people do not understand this. As we are accepting different body even in this present life, from babyhood to childhood, from childhood to boyhood, from boyhood to youthhood... That's a fact. Everyone knows it. I was a child, but that childhood body is no more. I have got a different body. Similarly, what is the difficulty to understand: when this body will be no more, I'll have to accept another body? It is great science.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n As you know, there is two ultimate, two quite, I mean to say, opposite approaches to this problem. One approach is slightly different by different religions, but in the same time, any religion recognizes in such-or-such form the change...",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n Takes place.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Change of place of a spirit.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Transmigration.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Called transmigration of spirit, etcetera. As in Christian religion and in Buddhism and Hindu religion...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n No, I'm not talking of religion, beliefs.",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n Yes. Yes.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n I'm talking of science and philosophy.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes, yes.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n That is...",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n If we can... So science and philosophy. But another...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n One religion may accept; one may... That is not our purpose. We are talking on the point of that if the owner of the body is permanent in spite of different change of the body, then what is the difficulty to understand that when this body will be changed, the owner of the body will have another body?",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n Yes, another approach is that there is no separate own..., there is no separate..., no two phenomena, owner of the body and body.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n This body and owner of the body is the same.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n No.",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n When body dies, this owner also dies.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n No.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n There is no separate...",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n That... Why? Why there is no department of knowledge in the university to study this fact scientifically? That is my proposition.",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n So that means they are lacking. It may be as you say, or it may be as I say, but there must be a department of knowledge, what is the... Now, recently one cardiologist, a doctor, he has accepted that there is soul—in Montreal and Toronto. I had some correspondence with him. And he is strongly in belief that there is soul. So that is another point of view.\nBut we accept knowledge from authority. Authority. Just like this statement is given by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the authority by all the ācāryas, in the Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is studied amongst the scholarly circle and philosophical circle still, all over the world. And this statement is given by Kṛṣṇa:\ndehino 'smin yathā dehe\nkaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā\ntathā dehāntara-prāptir\ndhīras tatra na muhyati\n[Bg. 2.13]\nSo dehāntaram prāpti... Just like the childhood, now, giving up the childhood body, the soul is coming to the boyhood body; from boyhood, youth..., similarly, the soul, giving up this body, he accepts another body. This statement is given by Kṛṣṇa, the greatest authority according to our tradition of knowledge.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes, I know.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n So suppose we accept such statement without any argument. That is the way of Vedic understanding. Vedic understanding means you have to accept whatever is stated in the Vedas without any argument.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n So forget about Vedas. Our approach is we don't believe in anything without argument. We can believe only on anything based on argument.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes, that...",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Here is the basic...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n No, no, that is allowed.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n ...projecting[?].",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n That is allowed. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena, paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. Paripraṣna, argument, is allowed, but not with a challenging spirit. With a spirit to rightly understand. Praṇipātena paripraśnena. That... Argument is not denied. But so far Vedic statements are there, they are infallible, infallible, and the followers of the Vedas, they accept in that way. For example, just like cow dung.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n It is the stool of an animal. Now, in the Vedic statement there is: As soon as you touch the stool of any animal, you are impure. You have to purify yourself by taking bath. Even in your own stool... According to Hindu system, if you go to evacuate, after coming you have to take bath.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n This is quite intact with modern medicine knowledge...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n ...that you must clean yourself.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Now...",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes, that's right.",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n ...this is... But another place it is stated that \"Cow dung, although it is the stool of an animal, it is pure.\" Even if you apply in an impure place, it becomes purified. Now, this is superficially contradictory. In one place it is said that \"The stool of an animal is impure. As soon as you touch, you have to be purified,\" and another place it is said that \"Cow dung is pure.\" So according to our knowledge, this is contradictory.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n But those who are followers of the Vedas, they are accepting. Is it not, cow dung, pure? Cow dung pure, is it not accepted by the followers of Vedas?",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n That is.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n And if you analyze chemically, you'll find the cow dung contains all antiseptic properties.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n This I don't know.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n You do not know, but there is a...",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n I have to test. This I do not know, but...\n Yes, one must try to realize it...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes, that... That... One Dr. Ghosh, professor of medical college, Lal Mohan Ghosh, he... I was medically connected in my previous life. So that Lal Mohan Ghosh analyzed it, and it is his statement, it is full of, I mean to say, antiseptic properties. So Vedic statements, even sometimes you find it is contradictory, but if you analyze scrutinizingly, you'll find it is correct.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n But maybe...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n There may be some exceptions, but, I mean to say, just like the cow dung is stool—this is an exception—but why this exception is accepted: that if you scientifically examine, analyze, you'll find it is correct?",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n That is due to analyze. That's right. That's from common sense point of view.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Similarly, another, another instance is there, just like conchshell. Conchshell is the bone of an animal. So according to Vedic instruction, if you touch the bone of an animal, you become impure. You have to take bath. You become impure. But this conchshell is kept in the deity room because it's accepted as pure by the Vedas.\nSo my point is that we accept Vedic laws in such a way, without argument, accept because it is stated in the Veda, and that is the principle followed by scholars. If you can substantiate your statement by quoting from the Vedas, then it is accepted. You do not require to substantiate in other ways if you prove by Vedic quotation. Śruti-pramāṇa. It is called śruti-pramāṇa.\nThere are different kinds of pramāṇa, evidences. Just like in the legal court if you can give quotation from the law books, your statements is accepted, similarly, all statements which you give, if they are supported by śruti-pramāṇa... I think you know, the Vedas are known as Śrutis.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Hm-hm.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Śruti-smṛti-purāṇadi-pāñcarātriki-vidhiṁ vina [Brs. 1.2.101]. Any system we accept, it must be supported by the evidences of śruti-smṛti-purāṇadi-pāñcarātriki. Aikāntikī harer bhaktir utpātāyai... Anything which is not supported by śruti-smṛti... Just like Manu-smṛti. This is smṛti. And Vedas are śruti. Śruti-smṛti-purāṇadi pāñcarātriki-vi..., aikāntikī harer bhaktir utpātāyaiva kalpate.pramāṇas, then it is disturbance. That is...",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n But I mean to say one thing is, like in Vedas, whatever is written could have been proved like in a scientific way, today... Suppose there is a lab which is scientific. Whatever is said by that lab, that \"This is truth,\" accepted without going to argue to the propriety of it... Suppose you have a scientific knowledge shop or a place, and if this workshop or this scientific institution states, \"This is not good. This is not good,\" a general body accepts, take it for granted, \"Yes, scientific body has said so. It is understood. It's...\"\n Hmm. Yes.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Personally he hasn't got to examine, himself. He takes the statement of an authority and believes him.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Common person, a common [indistinct].",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n So Vedic authorities, authoritative statement, are accepted by the ācāryas. Just like India is governed by the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya and Śaṅkarācārya. They accept in that, and the followers accept them. The benefit is that whether cow dung is pure or impure, I do not waste my time, but because it is stated in the Vedas, I take it, so I save my time. Śruti-pramāṇa. In that way there are different statements in the Vedas for sociology and politics and anything, because Vedas means knowledge. Vedas means knowledge. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. Vetti veda vido jñāne. Vid-dhātu, when it is used for knowledge, it is called Veda.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n But today, I think, the scientific knowledge, people will not accept all this, what you are saying only. They would perhaps like to try it once more, and perhaps, after going through the process of examination of theirs, they accept it if it is true.\n Yes, well, right. As I have already said, our approach, the approach of people today, new era of knowledge everywhere in the world...\n Try once more.\n Try once more. You are right. And also nobody would believe in anything without argument.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n No, arguments are allowed.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes, arguments. Nobody would believe because it was written in this or other script. Evidence, evidence and evidence has to be given to believe. And may I put one question to you? Have you many branches of your Society everywhere?",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Where is your main center, and where are the branches?",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Main center...",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Of Kṛṣṇa consciousness Society.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Of course, I have got about fifty-five branches.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Fifty-five.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes. So I have made my main center in Los Angeles.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Los Angeles?",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Los Angeles.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Because I brought a letter from western Germany, so I had an idea that is probably...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n No, that is a... That is a branch. There is a branch",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n A branch.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Kṛṣṇadāsa. There is a branch. But my headquarter is in Los Angeles. And now, since I came to India, I am trying to make my headquarter in Māyāpur. That's the place, the birthsite, of Lord Caitanya. We have purchased land there.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n In Māyāpur?",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Māyāpur. You have heard the name?",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes, yes. Māyāpur is there.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n You have been in India?",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes, six or seven times.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Oh. [laughs]",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n I very well to like it.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n So you have been in Māyāpur, Lord Caitanya's birth site?",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n No, Māyāpur... It's also called Māyāpuram.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Māyāpuram, it is... That is in Madras side.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes, yes.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Mylapuram.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n There's a Mylapuram, yes.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Mylapuram. That is Madras city.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes, yes, yes.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes. So where generally you stayed in India?",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Myself?",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Ah, I was run away in many places, I was..., in Delhi, in Delhi, in Rajasthan, in Gujarat, Maharashtra, Bengal, Bihar...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n In Bengal where you stayed ?",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n In Bengal?",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n I was in Calcutta, Shantiniketan...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Shantiniketan.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n ...Shantiniketan and in some town in 24 Parganas, in different small townships and villages also.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes. I see.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Bengal. And by origin you are from...?",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Calcutta.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n From Calcutta. Ah, from Calcutta.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes. My birthplace is in Calcutta, yes.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n I understand. Yes, unfortunately I haven't been to North Bengal. You have just visited Calcutta.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes, Calcutta, Bombay and several places. Gorakhpur. Gorakhpur.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Oh. It's a very difficult situation in...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Calcutta.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n ...Bengal and Calcutta...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n ...because of influx of refugees from Bangladesh.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes. But we had our saṅkīrtana festival for ten days, and people participated very wonderfully. We... Our gathering was not less than thirty thousand people daily, and they are so much interested in hearing about our... Lecture things, we are lecturing from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā. We are...\nOur preaching method is on the basis of Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So people are responding from every part of the world, especially these American boys. They are especially interested. And England also, and Germany, and France. From here I shall go to Paris. There we have got center.\n[aside:] What is the name of that place? Paris? Recently they have taken.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Eh?",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Recently they have changed the...?",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Oh. In some suburb, Fontenay Rose, Fontenay aux Roses.\n Ah, near Paris?",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n In Fontainebleau?",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes, yes. They have taken a whole house, nice house. So our process is very simple. We ask our students to refrain from four prohibitive principles: no illi...",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n From? I'm sorry. From? Four?",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Prohibitive. No illicit sex life, no meat-eating—meat or fish or eggs, no—and no gambling, and no intoxication, including cigarette, tea, coffee. These also we take as intoxicants. So these four principle one has to obey, and let him chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. And by this process only, you'll find how these boys and girls are improving quickly. Process is very simple.\nBesides that, we have got books, volumes of books, just like Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā. I have given them. Throughout all these years I have written so many books. And they have got ample stock for reading the whole life. We have got four hundred pages, big, big books, about one dozen books: Kṛṣṇa in two parts, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in six parts, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, one part, Nectar of Devotion, one part.\nIn this way I am... And these are... We are publishing every month one chapter, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, with this detailed information, giving a heading like this, \"The First Step in God-Realization.\" Here is also. The heading is: \"Puruṣa-śukta Continued.\" Puruṣa-śukta is a Vedic stotram.\nSo we are trying to push this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like in your country there is Lenin consciousness, similarly, it is also a different type of consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa is also historical personality as much as Lenin is also historical personality. So His philosophy... Just like you are trying to understand his philosophy, you are trying to understand Kṛṣṇa's philosophy. In this way this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is going on.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n And have you many participants...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Oh, yes.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n ...in these fifty-five branches?",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Oh, yes, more than three thousand, three thousand initiated. And outside admirers, there are many. Many. And this means these three thousand who have accepted the principles, just like these boys. So there are fifty-five branches. In each branch we are maintaining twenty-five to hundred students. So just imagine.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n But does that mean the students, they abstain for normal West European universities their own..., all their... How to explain it? Their... For instance, can a normal student from, for instance, from one of the Paris universities, who is attending lectures in normal way, etc., also be initiated and admitted to your community?",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n No, both ways. Both ways. If you want to be initiated, you are welcome. If not, you come, try to understand our philosophy, read our books. There are so many books, magazines. And question, answer. Try to understand the philosophy. It is not that all of a sudden a student comes and becomes our disciple. No. They first of all come, associate, try to understand. Then... We do not canvass. When he voluntarily says that \"I want to be your...\"",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n No, yes.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes. There is no canvassing.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n No, yes. That's what [indistinct]. But what I am most interested in... For instance, not a student but a young worker or a young son of a farmer, he would abstain from his old life and he would be initiated and join your community into a given center. How he would entertain himself...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n The thing is... I have alre...",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n ...in the sorts of day-to-day life...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n ...material life?",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Now, material life, it is...",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Would he be paid to stay in that center?",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes, I am answering. As I told you that this propaganda is meant for creating some brāhmaṇas all over the world, because the brāhmaṇa element is lacking. So one who seriously comes to us, he has to become a brāhmaṇa. So he has to adopt the occupation of a brāhmaṇa, and he has to give up the occupation of a kṣatriya or a śūdra. But if one wants to keep his profession, at the same time wants to understand also, that is allowed.\nJust like we have many professors. There is Howard Wheeler, professor of Ohio University. He's my disciple. So he is continuing his professorship. But whatever money he's getting, almost he's spending for our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. For gṛhasthas, those who are householders living outside, they are expected to contribute fifty percent of the income for the Society, twenty-five percent for the family, and twenty-five percent for his personal emergency. After all, in this world, if we live...\nSo far we are concerned, we are sannyāsī, but you are a professor. If there is some emergency, you cannot go to beg. But I am a sannyāsī. I can tell you that I am in difficulty. That is the system. So we have got four orders. Just like he's brahmacārī and he's gṛhastha. He has got his wife, children. So he's a gṛhastha. He's a brahmacārī. Similarly, there is sannyāsī. So that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching. It doesn't matter whether one is a gṛhastha, householder, or renounced order or a brahmacārī or a brāhmaṇa or śūdra. It doesn't matter. If anyone understands the science of Kṛṣṇa, he becomes the spiritual master. The exact word is, in Bengali, kiba vipra kiba śūdra nyāsi kene nāya... [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. Do you understand little Bengali?",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n No, but...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n As a vibration...",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yei kṛṣṇa tattva vettha sei guru hāya. Anyone who understands the science of Kṛṣṇa, he can become...",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Guru.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n ...the spiritual master.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n I understand. But in generally, by creating brāhmaṇas from different social classes of society, really you deny the old prescription of Hindu script...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n No, I establish old, old scrip... I establish.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Because according to old script, to Purāṇas, etcetera, every member of one of the four classes, these varṇas...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n ...is to be born inside it...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n No, no, no.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n ...but not appointed.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n No, no, no, no. No, no, no.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n This is the major...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n No, no, that... I am sorry...",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n ...foundation of all the varṇas.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n You are not speaking correctly. I beg... We beg... With great respect I beg to submit, you are..., that you are not speaking correctly. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, cātur-varṇyaṁ māyā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]: \"These four orders of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra is created by Me according to quality and work.\" There is no mention of birth. There is no mention of birth.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes, I agree with you that this was addition of late brāhmaṇas, who tried to...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n No, that..., that has killed the Indian culture. You see? Otherwise there was no necessity of division of this Pakistan. Not only that. From history, perhaps you know, this whole planet was Bhārata-varṣa, and it was controlled by one flag up to Mahārāja Parīkṣit. Gradually they separated. Separated. This is the history. And late..., lately they have separated Pakistan. So Bhārata-varṣa is now crippled into a small piece of land. Otherwise this whole... According to our scripture, Vedic scripture, this, this whole planet is called Bhārata-varṣa. Formerly it was named Ilāvṛta-varṣa, but since the Emperor Bharata ruled over this planet, it is called Bhārata-varṣa, from Mahārāja Bharata.\nSo this culture, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Vedic culture, were existing... Now any religion you take, Christian religion, Muhammadan religion or Buddhist religion, they are, utmost, two thousand, three thousand old, years old. But this Vedic scripture, you cannot trace out where is the beginning, where is the beginning. It is therefore called sanātana, eternal. And this culture is for the whole human society. It is not a departmental religious faith. Religious faith you can change, but real dharma you cannot change.\nJust like... You try to understand. Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā, He says:\nyadā yadā hi dharmasya\nglanīr bhavati bhārata\nabhyutthānam adharmasya\ntadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham\n[Bg. 4.7]\nparitrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ\nvināśāya ca duṣkṛtaṁ... duṣkṛtaṁ\ndharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya\nyuge yuge sambhavāmi\n[Bg. 4.8]\nNow, Kṛṣṇa came to establish the religious principles, and in the last stage of speaking He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya māmekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. And that is real dharma, mām ek..., to surrender to the Supreme. That is real dharma. We are surrendering. Anyone, just like you or me, anyone, we are surrendering to somebody. That's a fact. Our, our life is by surrender. Is it not? Do you disagree with this point?",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n To some extent you surrender.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes, to, to the full extent. Just like you...",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n You are required to surrender to the society, for instance, to the whole people.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes, just... Whole people or the state or the king or the government, whatever you say—this surrender must be there. It may be different.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n I'm sorry. Only there's a difficulty. We can't agree that you have surrender to government or surrender to a king. There's a principal difference of surrender to a king, to a person, or surrender to a society.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n No, that is... That is a change of color only. But the surrender is there. The principle of surrender is there. Either you surrender to monarchy, either you surrender to democracy or aristocracy or, what is called, dictatorship, you have to surrender. That's a fact. That's a fact. Without surrendering, our life is... There is no life. That is not possible.\nSo we are educating persons to surrender to the Supreme, wherefrom you get all protection. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mam ekam śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], aham tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. So surrender is there. Nobody can say, \"Now I am not surrendering to anyone.\" There is not a single person. Difference is where he is surrendering. Where he is surrendering.\nThe ultimate surrendering objective is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]: \"After surrendering to so many things, birth after birth, when he's actually wise he surrenders unto Me.\" Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]: \"Such kind of mahātmā is very rare.\"",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes. But at the same time, it seems to me that surrender, surrender is to be accompanied with revolt. The history of mankind has proved but by only revolt against some kind of surrender...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes, yes.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n ...mankind has been developed from medieval age... Like French Revolution, it was revolt against surrender. But this revolt also was surrender itself to the rank and file of the people. Here I agree.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n But so it is not enough to put a full stop on surrender.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n No.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Surrender is to be accompanied with revolt against surrender of other kinds.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes, therefore the surrender will be full stop when the surrender is to Kṛṣṇa.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Ah, ha, ha, yes.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n That is full stop: no more surrendering.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Final surrendering.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Other surrender you have to change by revolution, but when you come to Kṛṣṇa, then it is sufficient. You are satisfied. Just like... I'll give you one example, that a child is crying, and people changing laps: \"Oh, you are crying.\" It is not stopping. But as soon as the small baby comes to the lap of his mother, he stops: \"Yes, full satisfied.\"",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Final satisfaction of...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n So these changes, this surrendering, will go on in different categories. Actually all the surrenders, sum total is surrender to māyā. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayi mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. So this surrender is going on, going on. It is the māyā's, māyāra vaibhava, paraphernalia of māyā, either you surrender to this or to that. But final surrender: mām eva ye prapadyante, māyām etāṁ taranti te—the final surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Then he is happy. Surrender will stay. His process of surrender is there, but this surrender keeps him quite satisfied, transcendental.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes. And haven't you come across some hostile attitude to your teaching from orthodox Hindu, from orthodox brāhmaṇas in India itself?",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n But rather, we have subdued them.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Ah, yes.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Because we are... Any orthodox Hindu may come, but we have got our weapons, Vedic evidences. So nobody has come. But even Christian priest... Even Christian priests in America, they love me. They say that \"These boys, our boys... They are Americans. They are Christians. They are Jews. And these boys are so much after God, and we could not deliver them?\" They're admitting. Their fathers, their parents, come to me. They also flatly offer their obeisances and say, \"Swāmījī, it is our great fortune that you have come. You are teaching God consciousness.\"\nSo on the contrary; I have got reception from other countries. And India also, as you inquired of India, all other sects, they're admitting that before me, many hundreds of svāmīs went there, but they could not convert to Kṛṣṇa consciousness a single person. They are admiring that.\nAnd so far I am concerned, I don't take any credit, but I am confident that because I am presenting the Vedic knowledge as it is, without any adulteration, it is being effective. That is my contribution. Just like if you have got a right medicine and if you administer to a patient, you must be sure that he'll be cured.",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n And how many disciples you have in India itself? From three thousand, how many members of your community you have in India itself?",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n In India?",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n And India, there are many Kṛṣṇa conscious persons, hundred thousands, millions. India, there is no question. There is not a single Hindu who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious.",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n Yes, I understand, but this, especially, specifically...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Vaiṣṇava. This is called Vaiṣṇava cult. The Vaiṣṇavas, as far as you know—you have been in India—there are many millions of Vaiṣṇavas.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Oh, yes. Quite right.",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n Many millions of Vaiṣṇavas and... Just like this gentleman, he is a commander of the Air, India Air Lines. So he's not my disciple, but he's a Vaiṣṇava, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Similarly, in India millions and trillions there are, Kṛṣṇa conscious persons. And practically there is not a single... Even there are Muhammadan Kṛṣṇa conscious. In Allahabad University there is a Muhammadan professor, he's a great devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa.\nSo this is natural. It is said in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is everywhere, in everyone's heart. It has to be awakened only by this process. That's all. It is there in your heart also. It is not that it is foreign to you. It is not that. Everyone's heart, there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. By this process we have to awaken that. Śravaṇādi śuddha citte karaye udaya [Cc. Madhya 22.107]. Udaya. You know this word udaya. Just like sun rises. It is not that sun all of a sudden comes from somewhere. It is there, but it rises in the morning. Similarly, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is everywhere, but some way or other, it is now covered. By this process it is awakened and aroused, by association.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n You came yesterday to Moscow?",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Have you seen something here in Moscow?",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n No.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n No? Not much?",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n I am not very much interested for sightseeing.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n But in any case, if you have come, you ought to go somewhere and to see something.",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n I'm not...",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n 'Cause to stay in a hotel, old-style hotel like National, is not interesting. Not many people to see. And you are leaving day after tomorrow?",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n That is my program. Day after tomorrow.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n From here you are going to...?",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n Day after tomorrow or...?",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n Wednesday.\n Today is 22nd. We leave 25th, morning.\n Twenty-fifth.\n Morning.\n And you are leaving for United States or for Europe?",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes, for Europe.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n For Europe.\nParis.\nAh, for Paris.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Paris. And we have got our two ceremonies, very big ceremonies, in London and San Francisco, Ratha-yātrā, car festival. And, it is estimated, fifty thousand people are going to participate in the ceremony, both in London and San Francisco. We are making arrangement, car festival. This car festival is observed in Jagannātha Purī. You have been in Jagannātha Purī?",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n Yes, yes.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n From immemorial time, this festival...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes. Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Very, very old...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n ...Hindu tradition of this car festival.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Huge car.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Huge car.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Very well cars...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n ...that car, very interesting piece of car.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n That has been introduced in the Western countries, in London and San Francisco. And gradually, maybe, we will introduce in other countries also.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n In London, among Indian community...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n No, no.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n ...and also, these people are [indistinct].",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n This is organized by the Englishmen and the Americans. Indian communities in London and San Francisco, they are trying to become sahab. You know the word sahab?",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n [laughs] Westernized.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes. Westernized.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Modern process of Westernization is going on in the world. But Professor Srinivas...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n ...with the very grace[?] of some anthropologists of the University...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n I agree with him that a very interesting... Two processes: the process of Westernization among brāhmaṇa mainly and upper castes, and so-called Sanskritization he calls the process of adopting some brāhmaṇa rituals, etcetera., by so-called low caste, even untouchables. Very interesting processes in India just now.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Now one thing... The other day I was speaking to some... Where I was? In Bombay, I think. I was speaking some respectable gentlemen that \"Kṛṣṇa says:\nmāṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya\nye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ\nstriyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās\nte 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim\n[Bg. 9.32]\nKṛṣṇa says, 'Even those who are low-born, pāpa-yoni—the striya, vaiśya and śūdra, they are also included—but by accepting Me, accepting my shelter, they are also elevated to the transcendental position.' Now, why the higher class of Hindu society, they neglected this injunction of Bhagavad-gītā? Suppose one is pāpa-yoni. Kṛṣṇa says that 'They can be elevated to the transcendental position if they accept Me.'\nWhy this propaganda was not done by the higher class people, so that the so-called pāpa-yoni could be elevated? Why you rejected? The result was that the Muhammadans... Instead of accepting them, you rejected them, and they have partitioned, and they have gone away, and they have become eternal enemy of India.\" You see?\nSo this is the first time that we are trying to elevate to the highest position of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even one is in the pāpa-yoni. It doesn't matter. Because soul is pure. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. The Vedas says, \"The soul is untouched by any material contamination.\" Simply, temporarily, he is covered. This covering should be opened. Then he becomes pure. That is the mission of human life, to uncover ourselves from this material envelopment and come to the spiritual understanding, surrender to Kṛṣṇa—life is perfect. [break]",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Thank you for taking interest in so many... Unfortunately I am leaving early tomorrow morning, quite early, to the south, seven days, and I won't be able to help you. But probably through your embassy you can meet some people from our...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n No, I am not interested. I came to see you especially...",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Some people from Christian Orthodox Church may be interested to have some discussion.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n So if there is some discussion, I am prepared. It is, after all, for the whole human society, and it is being practically appreciated. So if there is possibility, I am..., for two days I can meet some gentlemen. I can meet.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Well, if you can ask Mr. Natarajan from embassy to perform...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n No, not, not in that way. If some of your assistant does it, then it is all right, because, to tell you frankly, so far our Indian government is concerned, they are not very much interested with this movement. Yes. Their program is different.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes, of course, Indian government program is more and more secular in general ideology, Westernized.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n But of course, people are not very happy there. One gentleman, he's in government service. I am speaking, in 19..., sometimes, 1950. He was in statistics department, Mr. Dal, Kashmiri gentleman. He was coming to me in Allahabad. He told me that \"I went... I go to the villages, and the villagers say, 'Bābuji, angrej ko bahut [indistinct]?' \" That was his statement.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n People...\n Yeah, because every..., there are some kind of people in some administrative departments who...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n No, the difficulty is...",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n ...are both masters[?] and ex-British officers.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n ... the difficulty, that India is nowhere. They are trying to imitate, Westernize, but they are hundred years back. From materialistic point of view, technological point of view, they are hundred years back.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes, that's right. But what to do for India?",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n No. That not...",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n To improve the condition of life, to be Westernized, is the major problem.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n That... But there is one thing that I am experiencing. India's the spiritual asset, if that is distributed, that will increase India's honor. That is my view... Because everywhere I go, still people adore India's spiritual culture. They are after India. And if they are properly distributed, this treasure house of Indian spiritual knowledge, then at least people outside India, they'll think that \"We are getting something from India.\"",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Oh, you are right in this sense to my mind, that the Indian culture of heritage is to be made known everywhere. That's right. But from the..., in the same time, in what way this would benefit Indian training masters[?] themselves? Because they are sitting in India...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n No, India...",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n ...and they have nothing from spreading of Indian cultural heritage and etcetera over the world. Indian villagers have to have fertilizers, tractors, etcetera.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n We do not object to that. There is no objection.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes, I don't think that you object.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n No.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n But at the same time, something has to be done in India itself. In what lines, if you... One may call it Westernization from this introduction of technical revolution in all spheres of Indian life, in agriculture, industry, etcetera...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Now, this picture... This is Viṣvarūpa. It was shown to Arjuna. Now, Arjuna, before understanding Bhagavad-gītā, was a fighter, warrior. And after understanding Bhagavad-gītā, he remained a fighter. So we don't want to change the position. Just like you are a respectable professor, teacher. We don't say that you change your position. We have come to convince you about our philosophy. That's all.\nSo just like the same example: Arjuna, he was denying to fight: \"Kṛṣṇa, I do not like to kill my relatives. I don't want this kingdom.\" But he was taught Bhagavad-gītā. And at the end, when Kṛṣṇa inquired, \"What is your decision now?\" he said, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava [Bg. 18.73]: \"Yes, I shall act accordingly, as You say.\" That means his consciousness was changed. He remained a fighter. He was a fighter, he remained a fighter, but he changed his consciousness.\nWe want that. We don't want to disturb the present condition of the society. No. But we try to make them understand that \"There is a great necessity of you to understand this consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.\" That is our goal.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n But at the same time, the final goal of any consciousness is to change society...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n ...to make a better society. That...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n That is automatically...",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n I am not very so happy to hear that your ultimate goal is not to disturb society as such, because in modern society there are many things to be changed...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n That...",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n ...through some consciousness.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n That preliminary changes... Just like we prohibit, \"Don't take intoxicants.\"",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n To change... Not to change culture. Intoxication is not [indistinct].",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n So if he becomes..., if he takes to these processes, then automatically...",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Transformation will take place automatically.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n ...his whole life is changed. Yes. Because these four things—illicit sex life, intoxication, meat-eating and gambling—they are very great impediments for social improvement.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n And that will automatically make his life simpler, because a person who is not indulging in illicit sex life or intoxication and other things has to live a comparatively simpler life.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n That's right. One will live much simpler life, agreed. But at the same time, would it change some complex things...?",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n Oh, yes. Oh, yes.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n No, no, it won't change the complex for simple reason that a person who's not indulging in this one and he's conscious, he'll be also conscious to work hard competitively when he is quite sure that he cannot rob somebody if he wants his food, and he can't rob it.\n But if you would..., will have many, even many followers, how far this adaption of Kṛṣṇa consciousness by many Americans boy would affect the politics of their attitude, for instance, to such a bearing problem of America as Vietnam War?\n Correct. They'll never be the one who will ever advocate any war, because they know this war itself is a wrong thing.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n No, no. We don't say \"Avoid war.\" But unnecessary war is avoided. Just like Kṛṣṇa induced Arjuna to fight. It was necessary. It was necessary.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n To get rid of extra evil.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n It was necessary. So nothing is avoided, but everything is utilized for proper purpose. Nothing is rejected. Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandhe [Brs. 1.2.255]. This is fact, that Kṛṣṇa never advocated that \"Let there be stop of war.\" No. When there is necessity, absolute necessity, there may be war, but for their good purpose, not by the whims of the politicians. No.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Hm-hm. That's right. So...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n So if you can arrange for some program, it is all right. There are... It is all right.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Is there any possibility Swāmījī could lecture at the Institute itself in the next day or two?\n I don't think, because, you know, now it is vacation time. [break]",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n \"...Vedic Concept of Communism,\" \"Knowledge by Authorized Tradition,\" and what was the other?",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n \"Scientific Values of...\"",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n \"Scientific Classless Society.\" This subject matter I wanted...",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Have you put into writing these three subjects somewhere?",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n I asked... Because I could not contact him, therefore I asked the Ambassador. But unfortunately they say that \"We did not receive any letter like that.\" So you can note down if you like.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes, it is interesting to read also your text of your lectures. But it is not here? It is...? Kṛṣṇa Consciousness...",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n No, it is Easy Journey to Other Planets. No? No, what is this? Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, the Topmost Yoga System.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n See, the Swāmījī is only going to be here two more days, so if there's any possibility, people can take advantage to have him speak in public or in groups. Do you think it's possible?\n It's... It's... I can't help, because I am leaving tomorrow very early for the south, and I shall be here only on the first of July. Yes. So from this point it will be difficult, yes. Probably... My advice would be through an ambassador you can come in contact with this, our religious organization.\nThat would be very interesting to have some lecture in group, lecture in group, and some discussion of all this. That would be... That would be good possible, a little. So he can come back if... I would stay tomorrow, but I can't manage it myself, but..., as I am leaving at six, leaving, plane is leaving at 8:15 tomorrow morning.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n You mean to say that some ambassador's men should see?",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Yes. It seems to me that your Ambassador's men can come in contact with special..., our religious organizations and can organize for you both meetings and conferences, etcetera. There's no difficulty for some men. That summit could be interesting.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n So you can say. We shall arrange.",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n Hm-hm. That you can. That you can... [end",
"role": "user"
}
] |
https://vedabase.io/en/library/transcripts/701221l2-surat/
|
[
{
"content": "",
"role": "assistant"
},
{
"content": "\n [introducing recording] The following lecture is recorded at the Sanātana-dharma Dharmshala, December 21th, 1970.",
"role": "user"
},
{
"content": "\n [reciting prayers.] [Hindi]",
"role": "assistant"
}
] |
https://vedabase.io/en/library/transcripts/690310sb-hawaii/
|
[
{
"content": "\n When previously we discussed about this Prahlāda Mahārāja's prayers… Perhaps you may all remember. Anyway, Prahlāda Mahārāja, when Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva was appeared..., appearing very much angry, so nobody could go forward before Him to pacify Him. Therefore Lord Brahmā requested Prahlāda Mahārāja that \"You go forward and pacify the Lord.\"\nSo because he was born of an āsura, demon, family, he thought that \"When all these demigods could not pacify the Lord, what I can do? I am born of a father who is completely demon, in the modes of darkness.\" Demons are… There are three modes of material nature. Those who are demigods, they are in the modes of goodness, and those who are demons, they are partly in the modes of passion and partly in the modes of ignorance.\nSo Prahlāda Mahārāja said that ugra-jāteḥ [SB 7.9.8]:\n[Prahlāda Mahārāja prayed: How is it possible for me, who have been born in a family of asuras, to offer suitable prayers to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead? Even until now, all the demigods, headed by Lord Brahmā, and all the saintly persons could not satisfy the Lord by streams of excellent words, although such persons are very qualified, being in the mode of goodness. Then what is to be said of me? I am not at all qualified.]\n\"I am born of a father who was too much passionate. So my body is made up of the modes of passion. When the persons whose bodies are in the modes of goodness could not pacify the Lord, then what can I do? My body is made of passion.\" So in other words, it is to be understood so long one is in the modes of passion and ignorance, he cannot understand about the Absolute Truth.\nTherefore it is necessary to bring one on the platform of goodness. Therefore there are so many restriction just to bring one from the lowest platform to the upper platform—at least to the material world—goodness. Of course, those who are Vaiṣṇavas, they are above all these platforms. Their platform is sattvaṁ viśuddhaṁ vasudeva-śabditaṁ [SB 4.3.23].\n[I am always engaged in offering obeisances to Lord Vāsudeva in pure Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is always pure consciousness, in which the Supreme Personality of Godhead, known as Vāsudeva, is revealed without any covering.]\nTheir platform is vasudeva. Vasudeva means the transcendental platform.\nSo he was thinking like that, but actually his position was transcendental, because he was devotee of the Lord. That is the significance here. Though even Lord Brahmā, who is considered to be the most exalted person in the modes of goodness, he could not pacify, and he requested Prahlāda Mahārāja, although he was a five-years-old boy and born of a demon family. So he was requested that \"You can pacify.\"\nThis is very significant. So Prahlāda Mahārāja could understand it that \"Lord Brahmā is requesting me to pacify the Lord not because materially I am elevated than Lord Brahmā, but some way or other, because I have come to the spiritual platform in the devotional service, therefore Lord Brahmā is giving me preference.\"\nThis is the point to be understood. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is being pushed in the Western countries, where the modes of passion and ignorance is very prominent. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement does not depend on these material modes of nature. It is above. It is without any impediment, without any stumbling block offered by the material causes. Ahaituky apratihatā [SB 1.2.6].\n[The supreme occupation [dharma] for all humanity is that by which men can attain to loving devotional service unto the transcendent Lord. Such devotional service must be unmotivated and uninterrupted to completely satisfy the self.]\nThis movement cannot be checked by the material modes of nature. This is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā also. Lord says, Kṛṣṇa,\nmāṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya\nye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ\n[Bg. 9.32]\n[O son of Pṛthā, those who take shelter in Me, though they be of lower birth—women, vaiśyas [merchants], as well as śūdras [workers]—can approach the supreme destination.]\nPāpa-yoni. Pāpa-yoni means sinful species of life, or born in the family which is not very pious, pāpa-yoni. Or pāpa-yoni means lower species of life. So the demonic life is pāpa-yoni. Demonic life is obtained due to sinful activities.\n[aside:] Come on.\nThat is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā:\ntān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān\nkṣipāmy ajasram eva yoniṣu\n[Bg. 16.19]\n[Those who are envious and mischievous, who are the lowest among men, are cast by Me into the ocean of material existence, into various demoniac species of life.]\nLord Kṛṣṇa says, \"Those who are envious of Me, I put them into the āsurī yoni.\"\nSo on the whole it is to be understood that those who are devotees, they, even born of pāpa-yoni, impious family, still bhagavad-bhakti, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is not impossible for them. That is being described herein by Prahlāda Mahārāja. He is himself…\n[aside:] Not like that. Here. Here.\n…he himself giving evidence that \"Because Brahmā is pushing forward me to pacify the Lord, then the meaning is different. Because from material point of view I cannot pacify the Lord. I am born of demon father, and Brahmā is on the highest platform of material goodness. So why he is pushing me?\" He could understand that \"The only qualification I can see, that I have got implicit faith in the Supreme Personality of Godhead.\"\nTherefore he says,\nmanye dhanābhijana-rūpa-tapaḥ-śrutaujas-\ntejaḥ-prabhāva-bala-pauruṣa-buddhi-yogāḥ\nnārādhanāya hi bhavanti parasya puṁso\nbhaktyā tutoṣa bhagavān gaja-yūtha-pāya\n[SB 7.9.9]\n[Prahlāda Mahārāja continued: One may possess wealth, an aristocratic family, beauty, austerity, education, sensory expertise, luster, influence, physical strength, diligence, intelligence and mystic yogic power, but I think that even by all these qualifications one cannot satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. However, one can satisfy the Lord simply by devotional service. Gajendra did this, and thus the Lord was satisfied with him.]\nSo material wealth, dhana… Dhana means wealth, and jana, jana means manpower. So manye dhanābhijana, these are material acquisition: wealth, manpower; manye dhanābhijana-rūpa, beauty; tapaḥ... These are third-class acquisition—dhana, jana, tapa, er, rūpa, means wealth, manpower and beauty. But first-class acquisition is tapa, tapasya.\nTapa means by austerity getting power. Whatever they say that will happen, that is called tapasya. That does not depend… A wealthy man cannot say anything which will surely happen, but a person who is rich in tapasya, austerity, if he says something, it will…, it is to be happen.\nJust like Mahārāja Parīkṣit, he was king, he was very pious king, and he was cursed by a brāhmaṇa boy: \"You have insulted my father, so within seven days you will meet your death.\" So that was powerful tapa. The brāhmaṇas were so powerful in their tapasya, austerity, that whatever they would say… He was not even a complete brāhmaṇa; he was born of a brāhmaṇa father, although he was initiated.\nStill, just see how much powerful was the brāhmaṇas that even a boy of ten or twelve years old, he cursed a great king. And who was that king? Who was protected by Kṛṣṇa Himself. He was a great devotee also; so still he was cursed, and he had to meet his death within seven days. This is called tapasya.\n[aside:] Oh, don't allow to touch.\nManye dhana, jana, tapaḥ and śrutauja. Śrutauja. Śruta means education; especially śruta means Vedic education, to be very learned in Vedānta, in Upaniṣad and Vedic ritualistic performances, so many things. So by dint of all these things, if you have got money, you can do something wonderful. If you have got manpower, you can do something wonderful.\nIf you have got beauty, you can do something wonderful. Sometimes in the history of the world we see that a great hero was conquered by beauty. That in the history, you know, what is that? Cleopatra? Caesar and Cleopatra. So? Beauty has got so power that the greatest conqueror was conquered by a beautiful woman.\nSo these are… As one has got power of money, one has got power of manpower, similarly beauty has also got power. He is analyzing, manye dhanābhijana-rūpa. And similarly austerity, tapasya. Just like that boy, that brāhmaṇa boy, he was powerful by tapasya, by austerity.\nHis father was engaged in austerity, and because he born of such powerful father, he had also the power, austerity, and śrutaujas. Śrutauja means \"by education.\" If one man is educated, highly educated, talented scholar, he has got power.\nSo by all this power… What is the meaning of this power? The power means that you can get... Tejaḥ-prabhāva-bala-pauruṣa-buddhi-yogāḥ [SB 7.9.9]. If you have got power… Suppose if you have got money, you can purchase high intelligence. Suppose if you want to start some business or some industry, it doesn't require…, you do not require to become yourself very talented technologist to start some industry. You pay somebody.\nThere are many technologists, they will come and help you. So by the power of money you can purchase strength and prabhāva, influence. And pauruṣa—pauruṣa means name, good name. Just like in your country Mr. Henry Ford is known as a very powerful businessman. That is called pauruṣa. So one side, to get such thing as wealth, manpower, beauty, austerity, education, and out of that you get strength, name, fame—everything. But these are all material acquisition.\nSo Prahlāda Mahārāja is saying that Brahmā has got all these qualifications in one person. He has got everything. Therefore as he could not pacify the Lord, as such, all these material qualification is useless for pacifying or for pleasing the Lord. We must remember this, that Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Lord, cannot be satisfied by all these acquisitions. This is Prahlāda Mahārāja. He is considered one of the authorities in this line. So he says that these acquisition are not the causes for satisfying the Lord.\nWe want to satisfy the Lord. That is our… Kṛṣṇa conscious movement means our life is dedicated how to please the Lord. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that material acquisition cannot please the Lord. Simply devotional service. \"Because I have been engaged to please the Lord, that means I have no material acquisition.\" That too will also be explained. Material acquisition his father had, but that was finished within a second. So material acquisition has no value for spiritual profit. That is being explained by Prahlāda Mahārāja.\nBhaktyā tutoṣa bhagavān gaja-yūtha-pāya [SB 7.9.9]. So gaja-yūtha-pāya. There was one elephant, he was in danger. He was not even a demigod or brāhmaṇa or learned, but still, he could satisfy the Supreme Lord Viṣṇu by his devotional service, and he was saved. That example is given.\nThen he says,\nviprād dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa-yutād aravinda-nābha-\npādāravinda-vimukhāt śvapacaṁ variṣṭham\nmanye tad-arpita-mano-vacanehitārtha-\nprāṇaṁ punāti sa kulaṁ na tu bhūrimānaḥ\n[SB 7.9.10]\n[If a brāhmaṇa has all twelve of the brahminical qualifications [as they are stated in the book called Sanat-sujāta] but is not a devotee and is averse to the lotus feet of the Lord, he is certainly lower than a devotee who is a dog-eater but who has dedicated everything—mind, words, activities, wealth and life—to the Supreme Lord. Such a devotee is better than such a brāhmaṇa because the devotee can purify his whole family, whereas the so-called brāhmaṇa in a position of false prestige cannot purify even himself.]\nTherefore for devotional service nobody should be anxious to get some material power. Rather, we should be always anxious to acquire how we can advance our anxiety, our eagerness, to serve the Lord. Just the other day I explained the Rūpa Gosvāmī śloka, verse, that the…, to purchase these feelings of devotional service, the attitude of devotional service, is to become too much eager how I shall be able to serve the Lord. That is the only price; not this material acquisition.\nPrahlāda Mahārāja further explains that viprād dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa-yutād [SB 7.9.10]. Vipra, vipra means those who are advancing to be brāhmaṇa. The intermediate stage before becoming a brāhmaṇa is called a vipra. Just like before becoming a graduate one is called undergraduate. One who has passed the school leaving examination but has not got the degree, but passed another examination, in India that is called I.A., Intermediate Art. Is such examination in this country, inbetween the graduate and school leaving?",
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"content": "\n So in India there is such examination. We had to pass first matriculation, then I.A., then B.A., so..., then M.A. So intermediate stage... To be brāhmaṇa means spiritually graduate, and vipra means spiritually intermediate, and initiation means spiritually he is school leaving certificate, and to become a Vaiṣṇava means to pass M.A. examination in spiritual science. These are the different stages.\nSo here it is stated, viprād dvi-ṣaḍ yutād, how one can become a vipra. The first stage is śūdra. Śūdra means almost animal life—no cleanliness, no hygienic principle, simply working for living. No other ambition, no spiritual education, but some way or other filling our life. Just like animals, they become dependent on somebody. Whatever he likes, he can do on that animal.\nŚūdra is not so dependent, but actually they are dependent. Just like in you country the Negroes were slaves, but fortunately they have been made free. Actually, they were being treated just like animals. So śūdra life means completely dependent on the other three higher class.\nSo everyone is born śūdra. Just like this child. This child is dependent completely. Just like animal is dependent, the child is also dependent. So they say, Vedic learned scholars, they say janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ. [Prema-vivarta]\n[In every birth you’ll get a father and a mother. But in every birth you cannot get Kṛṣṇa or a bona fide spiritual master.]\nEveryone is born a śūdra, completely dependent. Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ: but when he is initiated by purificatory processes, he is called twice-born. This initiation process means he surpasses the ordinary birth.\nOrdinary birth is made by the father and the mother. That father and mother is there even in animal life. So to take birth from father and mother is not very important. Anyone, janame janame sabe pitā mātā pāya, in any birth, it doesn't matter human being, even in animal life or any life, there must be one father and mother.\nSo that birth is not very important. Janmanā jāyate. Therefore by birth by the father and mother, everyone is śūdra. But if he is purified, if he gets association of a spiritual master, if he approaches… For second birth one has to approach the spiritual master, the bona fide spiritual master. That was the system. The one… That is the injunction:\ntasmād guruṁ prapadyeta\njijñāsuḥśreya uttamam\n[SB 11.3.21]\n[Therefore any person who seriously desires real happiness must seek a bona fide spiritual master and take shelter of him by initiation. The qualification of the bona fide guru is that he has realized the conclusions of the scriptures by deliberation and is able to convince others of these conclusions. Such great personalities, who have taken shelter of the Supreme Godhead, leaving aside all material considerations, should be understood to be bona fide spiritual masters.]\nOne… Everyone is born śūdra, in the lowest status of life, but some way or the other if he becomes inquisitive, that \"I want to know what is spiritual life, what is God, what is my relation with Him,\" if one becomes jijñāsuḥ—jijñāsuḥ means śreya, I, er…, \"inquirer.\" What kind of inquirer? Śreya uttama—the highest perfection of life. If he is inquisitive, that \"What is the value of life?\" then the Vedic literatures asking, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.2.12]: then you must search out a bona fide spiritual master.\n[To understand these things properly, one must humbly approach, with firewood in hand, a spiritual master who is learned in the Vedas and firmly devoted to the Absolute Truth.]\nThat is his business. If you want to…, if anyone wants to satisfy his enquiries about higher transcendental subject matter, then this cannot be automatically achieved or performed. He must find out a spiritual master. That is the way.\nSo janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ saṁskārād hi bhaved dvijaḥ. \n[By birth everyone is a śūdra, but by undergoing the purificatory ceremonies under the direction of a bona fide spiritual master, one may become a brāhmaṇa, and when one knows the Supreme Spirit, he actually becomes a truly learned brāhmaṇa.]\nSaṁskārād, by purificatory process. Just like you going..., we are pointing out, \"Don't do this; do this,\" \"Don't do this; do this.\" These are all purificatory processes. Without being pure, you cannot approach the supreme pure. Kṛṣṇa is supreme pure. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā,\nparaṁ brahmā paraṁ dhāma\npavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān\n[Bg. 10.12]\n[Arjuna said: You are the Supreme Brahman, the ultimate, the supreme abode and purifier, the Absolute Truth and the eternal divine person. You are the primal God, transcendental and original, and You are the unborn and all-pervading beauty. All the great sages such as Nārada, Asita, Devala, and Vyāsa proclaim this of You, and now You Yourself are declaring it to me.]\nPavitraṁ means purest. So if we want to approach Kṛṣṇa, then we must observe the purificatory process. Being impure, we cannot touch even Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. If we want… Therefore Lord Caitanya has made it easy. Because it is very difficult for persons in this age to follow the..., strictly, the purificatory process, He has given this chanting process that will make automatically pure, purificatory. Otherwise there are two ways of spiritual advancement: one is called pāñcarātriki viddhi; another is called bhāgavata-viddhi.\nYou have seen that cakra of our Gauḍīya Mission? You remember, Rāmadāsa? So one side is called… Caitanya Mahāprabhu is in the middle, and one side is bhāgavata side, another side is pāñcarātriki side. So pāñcarātriki side is Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa sitting on the throne, and bhāgavata side is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa.\nSo bhāgavata side is very difficult. Unless one is purified from the pāñcarātriki side, it is very difficult to go to the bhāgavata side. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given this simple process: chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, kīrtana, and hearing the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And pursuant to these two principles one can install Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Deity and serving.\nFive things: vaiṣṇava-sevā, to serve the Vaiṣṇava pure devotee; and to hear; chanting; and to worship the Deity; and to hear Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, chanting. Chanting is kīrtana, and hearing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Hearing and chanting and serving and worshiping, and if possible to live in a sacred place like Vṛndāvana and Mathurā. These five things are recommended by Lord Caitanya for quick advancement of spiritual life, very quick.\nSo the vipra stage…, we are talking of how to come to the vipra stage. The first stage, everyone is on the śūdra platform. Then by purificatory process, by understanding of this Vedic knowledge, janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ, that by initiation he is twice-born... First born father and mother, and next birth is the father is the spiritual master and mother is the scripture. That means the…, as materially the father agitates the mother and the body is formed, similarly, spiritually, the spiritual master agitates the mother of Vedic knowledge, and the spiritual body is formed. This is called dvijaḥ.\nAnd the sacred thread means that one, he…, one who has attained the second birth, saṁskārād dhi bhaved. And after becoming dvijaḥ, initiation, it does not mean that you are perfect. Perfection is not… That means you are accepted. Now you have to make yourself advanced by understanding Vedic…, veda-pāṭhād bhaved vipraḥ, vedaiś ca sarvair. \nVeda-pāṭhād means to understand Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo [Bg. 15.15].\n[I am seated in everyone's heart, and from Me come remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness. By all the Vedas am I to be known; indeed I am the compiler of Vedānta, and I am the knower of the Vedas.]\nBecause Vedic knowledge means to understand Kṛṣṇa. The more you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you will become vipra. And when you become vipra, then there are twelve qualifications. That is being stated here—viprād dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa-yutād aravinda-nābha [SB 7.9.10].\n[If a brāhmaṇa has all twelve of the brahminical qualifications [as they are stated in the book called Sanat-sujāta] but is not a devotee and is averse to the lotus feet of the Lord, he is certainly lower than a devotee who is a dog-eater but who has dedicated everything—mind, words, activities, wealth and life—to the Supreme Lord. Such a devotee is better than such a brāhmaṇa because the devotee can purify his whole family, whereas the so-called brāhmaṇa in a position of false prestige cannot purify even himself.]\nTwelve items, just like controlling the senses, subduing the mind, subduing the tongue—sāma, dama, titikṣā—to be tolerant, then simplicity, then full faith in the scriptures, knowledge, understanding Kṛṣṇa. In this way there are twelve qualification.\nSo Mahārāja Prahlāda, Prahlāda Mahārāja says that even one is qualified with these twelve qualification and has attained the stage of vipra, still, if he has not attained devotional service, then it is useless. Simply becoming learned, simply becoming very purified is not all. The summit is that one should become the devotee of the Lord.\nSo Prahlāda Mahārāja says, viprād dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa-yutād aravinda-nābha. Aravinda-nābha. Aravinda-nābha, aravinda means lotus, and nābha means this navel. That means Viṣṇu. Lord Viṣṇu is aravinda-nābha. From His lotus flower grown out of His abdomen, navel, Brahmā is born. Therefore His another name is aravinda-nābha.\nIf one becomes avaiṣṇava, not devotee of the Supreme Lord Viṣṇu, but he has all these qualifications, aravinda-nābha-pādāravinda-vimukhāt [SB 7.9.10]. Pādāravinda means... Aravinda-nābha, Kṛṣṇa is aravinda, mukhāravinda. Mukhāravinda means that His face is like lotus flower. His eyes are like lotus flower. From the navel a lotus flower has grown. His feet is called lotus feet. So here aravinda-nābha and pādāravinda. Pādāravinda means lotus feet.\nSo one who is detached from the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, from whose abdomen a lotus is grown for begetting Brahmā, if one is bereft of attachment to the Supreme Lord, then his qualification of vipra is not accepted, or not very fruitful. Rather, a person who has not become vipra, born of a very low family, caṇḍāla, śvapacaṁ variṣṭham—śvapacaṁ, śvapacaṁ means…, śva means dog, a dog-eater's family, lowest family—if he is qualified in devotional service, he is better than a person who is a vipra. Why?\nmanye tad-arpita-mano-vacanehitārtha-\nprāṇaṁ punāti sa kulaṁ na tu bhūrimānaḥ\n[SB 7.9.10]\n[If a brāhmaṇa has all twelve of the brahminical qualifications [as they are stated in the book called Sanat-sujāta] but is not a devotee and is averse to the lotus feet of the Lord, he is certainly lower than a devotee who is a dog-eater but who has dedicated everything—mind, words, activities, wealth and life—to the Supreme Lord. Such a devotee is better than such a brāhmaṇa because the devotee can purify his whole family, whereas the so-called brāhmaṇa in a position of false prestige cannot purify even himself.]\nBecause if a person has dedicated his life and body and everything to the service of the Lord, he can deliver his family more than such vipra, that brāhmaṇa who is simply proud of his qualification but has no, actually, devotional service. This is the statement of Prahlāda Mahārāja.\nIn the Mahābhārata, the twelve qualification are described as follows. What is that?\ndharmaś ca satyaṁ ca damas tapaś ca\namātsaryaṁ hrīs titikṣānasūyā\nyajñaś ca dānaṁ ca dhṛtiḥśrutaṁ ca\nvratāni vai dvādaśa brāhmaṇasya\n[Mahābhārata]\n[A brāhmaṇa must be perfectly religious. He must be truthful, and he must be able to control his senses. He must execute severe austerities, and he must be detached, humble and tolerant. He must not envy anyone, and he must be expert in performing sacrifices and giving whatever he has in charity. He must be fixed in devotional service and expert in the knowledge of the Vedas. These are the twelve qualifications for a brāhmaṇa.]\nOne who is vipra, these twelve qualification: that he must be very religious; he must be truthful; he must be controlling his mind; he must have austerities; he must be very intelligent; he must be tolerant; he must not be envious; he must have performed various kinds of yajñas, sacrifice; he must have given in charity, dhṛti; he is fixed up in his vows; and śrutaṁ ca, has got sufficient knowledge in the Vedas; vratāni, and he has followed all kinds of vratā.\nJust like we sometimes observe—no, regularly observe—the Ekādaśī; it is called vratā. Vratā means fasting with a vow. Janmāṣṭamī…, just like we fast on the birthday of Lord Kṛṣṇa or Lord Caitanya. These are called vratā. So brāhmaṇa is supposed to follow. These are all brāhmaṇa's qualification. Dvādaśa brāhmaṇasya yadva[?]…\nśamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ\nkṣānty-ārjava-virakta yaḥ\nmauna-vijñāna-santoṣāḥ\nsatyāstikye dviṣaḍ guṇāḥ\n[Muktāphala-tīkā]\n[”Mental equilibrium, sense control, austerity, cleanliness, tolerance, simplicity, detachment, theoretical and practical knowledge, satisfaction, truthfulness and firm faith in the Vedas are the twelve qualities of a brāhmaṇa.”]\nAnother department of twelve qualifications is that śama; śama means equilibrium of the mind. Dama, dama means controlling the senses; tapaḥ—austerity; and śaucaṁ—cleanliness; kṣānti—tolerance; ārjavam, ārjavam means simplicity; virakta, renouncement, no more attachment for material things; mauna—gravity, vijñāna—knowledge in perfection; santoṣāḥ—santoṣāḥ means very much satisfied, in whatever condition, he is not agitated. These are the qualification. Santoṣāḥ, and satyā—satyā means truthful; āstikya—āstikya means to have staunch faith in the scriptural injunction. That is called āstikya. Dviṣaḍ guṇāḥ.\nKataṁ va viprās aravinda-nābhasy-pādāravinda-vimukhāt kataṁ va [indistinct] na tasmin āravinda nābhe arpita-mano-ādayah yena tam. What is the distinction? The so much qualified brāhmaṇa is rejected because if he is found to be out of devotional service, and a person born in the lowest family who are dog-eaters, he is accepted, why? Now, one…, because he has dedicated his life and soul for Kṛṣṇa.\nSo we should remember that in the Western part of this world, where we are pushing on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we should not be dejected that because you are not born in high family or not so much trained in the Vedic knowledge. It doesn't matter. If simply your life, your everything—life, body—three things especially: kāya-mano-vākye... Kāya means body, and manaḥ means mind, and vacaḥ means words.\nWe accepted the tridaṇḍi—you will have seen in my name \"tridaṇḍi.\" Tri means three. Three. What is that three? What that three? The mind, the body and the words. So if we simply dedicate our mind always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, if we dedicate our body—the body shall work simply for Kṛṣṇa—and words, and we shall talk only for Kṛṣṇa—if we take simply these three things as our life and soul, then you are perfect. Kāya manaḥ vacaḥ.\nSo a person born in the family of dog-eaters, he is accepted more qualified than the brāhmaṇa..., a person born in the brāhmaṇa family with twelve kinds of other qualification. Why? The only qualification is that if he has dedicated his body, mind and words for Kṛṣṇa, then he is preferred.\nThis is the recommendation of Prahlāda Mahārāja. And he is placing himself that \"I am born of a low father, but because I have dedicated my mind, words and body for Kṛṣṇa, therefore Lord Brahmā has preferred me to pacify the Lord. So let me try to pacify the Lord.\"\nThat's all. We shall discuss next [indistinct].\nHare Kṛṣṇa. [devotees offer obeisances]\n[break] What is the qualification? This qualification, if we simply dedicate these three things: always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, that is very nicely possible. If we chant and hear, then we must be thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare.\nThis means my mind is engaged in Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, if you work for Kṛṣṇa, the body is engaged. There are so many works and preaching. These three things you can do, then we are perfectly eligible for becoming one of the devotees of the Lord. It is not very difficult. Is it difficult? Huh?\n[break] Tridaṇḍi-sannyāsi means... Everyone can become a tridaṇḍi sannyāsi if he dedicates these three things for Kṛṣṇa's service, then he's tridaṇḍi sannyāsi. Of course officially, tridaṇḍi-sannyāsi, one has to take three rods joined together. That's a symbolic.\nBut actually the fact is that one has to dedicate these three things to Kṛṣṇa; then he becomes more than the viprā or the brāhmana with twelve qualifications. That is the subject matter of today's discussion.\nDo you want to ask any questions?\n[silence] Nobody? [silence]\nThen chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. [silence]\nChant.\n[46:54]\n[kīrtana, bhaja śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya]\n[break] [Prabhupāda leading kīrtana, govinda jaya jaya, gopāla jaya jaya] [end]",
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https://vedabase.io/en/library/transcripts/680813le-montreal/
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"content": "\n [tests microphone chanting japa]\n[break] Up is on, down is off.",
"role": "user"
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"content": "\n Up, on.",
"role": "assistant"
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"content": "\nUp is on, down is off.",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n So I should make it on? [break]",
"role": "assistant"
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"content": "\n Since everyone is here now, we can start now?",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\nYes.",
"role": "assistant"
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"content": "\n All right. [sounds of setting up for kīrtana]\n[aside:] We should have the words to the chant. We should have the words to the chant, Hare Kṛṣṇa.",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\nYes.",
"role": "assistant"
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"content": "\n [to audience:] Everybody move forward, so everybody can come in this room now. What we're [indistinct] the Hare Kṛṣṇa chant. The words to this chant are Hare... Only three words: Hare, Kṛṣṇa and Rāma. The chant itself, we will repeat over and over: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. And these are all words to God.",
"role": "user"
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"content": "\nPlease join us.",
"role": "assistant"
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"content": "\nPlease join in. You'll be [indistinct]. Please clap your hands, and some of us will get up and dance. But please get up and dance and clap and sing the chant. That way it will be very nice. And following the chant, Swami Bhaktivedanta will tell you a little bit about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and we'll have some more chanting and [indistinct] food and some [indistinct]. [kīrtana]",
"role": "user"
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"content": "\n [prema-dhvani] [devotees offer obeisances]\n[taps microphone] It is working?",
"role": "assistant"
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"content": "\nYes.\n[22:12]",
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"content": "\n So one intelligent boy should come forward. Who is intelligent, most intelligent boy? You come forward? Come on. Eh? Somebody come forward, some of the boys. Come on. You come on. No? All right. Very good. Stand up here.\nCan you say what is this? What is this?",
"role": "assistant"
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"content": "\n Hand.",
"role": "user"
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"content": "\n Whose hand?",
"role": "assistant"
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"content": "\n Your hand.",
"role": "user"
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"content": "\n Your hand. And what is this?",
"role": "assistant"
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"content": "\n Your head.",
"role": "user"
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"content": "\n My head. Yes. And what is this?",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n Your knee.",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n Yes. My leg. And what is this?",
"role": "assistant"
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"content": "\n Your clothes.",
"role": "user"
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"content": "\n My cloth. Similarly, you have got your head, you have got your hand, you have got your leg, you have got your coat, you have got your pant, but do you know where you are? Can you say where you are?",
"role": "assistant"
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"content": "\n I am here. [laughter]",
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"content": "\n You are here, but that is your coat, that is your pant, that is your hand, that is your leg, that is your head. But where you are? It is your coat, it is your pant, it is your hand, it is your leg. Where you are? Do you know that? Can you say, any of the boys or girls here, where you are?",
"role": "assistant"
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"content": "\n No.",
"role": "user"
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"content": "\n No? Oh. So you are not taught in this school where you are? Then what is that education? You do not know where you are.",
"role": "assistant"
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"content": "\n I do know where I am. I'm in this school.",
"role": "user"
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"content": "\n You do not know, because as you say you are here—here your coat is there, your pant is there, your hand is there, your body is there—but you cannot explain where you are. All right. Sit down. I shall explain.\n[laughter]\nThis is the defect of modern education. We are educated in a way in which we have misunderstood. \"This is my body. This is my hand. This is my leg. This is my country. This is my mother. This is my father. This is my school.\" \"This is my,\" I know. I have the concept of \"my.\" But who is conceiving \"my\"? We have no information where it is. In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13].\n[One who identifies his self as the inert body composed of mucus, bile and air, who assumes his wife and family are permanently his own, who thinks an earthen image or the land of his birth is worshipable, or who sees a place of pilgrimage as merely the water there, but who never identifies himself with, feels kinship with, worships or even visits those who are wise in spiritual truth—such a person is no better than a cow or an ass.]\nUnder misconception we understand my body as myself. I say, \"It is my body,\" but I misidentify my body with myself. Is it not?\nSo the basic principle of mistake... Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. According to Vedic literature, this body is prepared in three elements: fire, water and clay. So I am not the combination of fire, water and clay. Then I am this house, I am this room. So yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. So basic principle of my knowledge is false, that I am considering this material body as \"I am.\"\nAnd if the basic principle is wrong, then, in relationship with this body, because I am born in this land of America... \"I am born\" means my body is born. Or because my body is born from another body—my father and mother—so I think that \"This body is my kinsman, and this country is mine,\" and so on. But the basic principle is false, that \"I am considering..., falsely identifying myself with this body. But I am within this body.\" That is a fact.\nAnd how can I understand how I am within this body? I can understand I am within this body by my feeling. If there is some pain or pleasure on my body, I can feel. I am conscious that I am there. In consciousness, I am there. And what is this consciousness? This consciousness is the reflection of real myself. Myself means soul.\nSo as soon as the soul is within this body, there is perception of pains and pleasure, heat and cold, and so many things. That is consciousness. And as soon as the soul is out of this body, there is no more pain, pleasure or heat and cold. A dead body, if you cut it into pieces, it will not protest. Therefore the soul, or consciousness, the symptom of soul, consciousness, is my self. My consciousness is the seat of my real self.\nSimilarly, there is another consciousness. In the Bhagavad-gītā there are description of two consciousness. Just like I am conscious throughout my body. If you pinch any part of my body, then I feel. That is my consciousness. So I am spread..., my consciousness is spread all over my body. This is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, avināśi tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam [Bg. 2.17]:\n[Know that which pervades the entire body is indestructible. No one is able to destroy the imperishable soul.]\n\"That consciousness which is spread all over this body, that is eternal.\" And antavanta ime dehā nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇa [Bg. 2.18]:\n[Only the material body of the indestructible, immeasurable and eternal living entity is subject to destruction; therefore, fight, O descendant of Bharata.]\n\"But this body is antavat,\" means perishable. \"This body is perishable, but that consciousness is imperishable, eternal.\" And that consciousness, or the soul, is transmigrating from one body to another. Just like we are changing dress. I may have this dress. You may have another dress. I may exchange your dress with me. So this changing of dress is going on every moment. How?\nNow, these children, they are now so small. When they'll become young, this body will grow. We do not know... We say, \"It is growing,\" but growing or not growing, this body will not remain. This body will go; another body will come. Medical science also says that every second we are changing blood corpuscles, and therefore change in the body is going on. So you say or I say that \"Body is growing,\" but in the Vedic language it is said that \"Body is changing.\"\nJust like a child is born so small from the mother's womb, and it changes body every second. Then he becomes a young child or a boy, then young man, then old man like me, and so on. In this way this changing, body changing, is going on. And the final change is called death. Death means... Just like the too much old garments cannot be used, similarly, this body is the garment of the soul. When it is..., no longer can be used, we have to accept another body. This is called transmigration of the soul.\nNow, consciousness, the symptom... The presentation of the soul within this body is proved by consciousness. So from Bhagavad-gītā we can understand there are two different qualities of consciousness. One consciousness is that I know about the pain and pleasure of my body, you know about the pains and pleasure of your body, but I do not know the pains and pleasure of your body, neither you know the pains and pleasure of my body. Therefore each and every one of us is individual soul, and our consciousness is limited within the body.\nSimilarly, there is another consciousness and another body. That body is universal body, and that consciousness is universal. That universal consciousness knows your pains and pleasure, my pains and pleasure, and millions and trillions of living entities and bodies, He knows the pains and pleasures of everyone. These are the statements in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṣetrajñaṁ ca māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata [Bg. 13.3]:\n[O scion of Bharata, you should understand that I am also the knower in all bodies, and to understand this body and its owner is called knowledge. That is My opinion.]\n\"As individual soul is conscious, is, only of his body, similarly, I am also conscious of everyone's body.\" The Supreme Personality of Godhead says that \"I am conscious of everyone's body,\" because He is all-pervading. He is all-pervading. That is all-pervading consciousness.\nSo this all-pervading consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are preaching—consciousness; all-pervading consciousness, universal consciousness. So our consciousness, when it is dovetailed with universal consciousness, then our consciousness also become universal consciousness. What is that? I will give you one example.\nJust like a motorcar is running at hundred miles' speed, and you are running on your cycle at ten miles' speed. But if you catch that motorcar, you will also run in hundred miles' speed. Although your capacity of bicycle is only ten miles' speed, but because you catch the motorcar which is running at hundred miles' speed, you also run at hundred miles' speed.\nSo unless we dovetail our activities with the supreme consciousness, or God consciousness, there cannot be equality, fraternity or universality as we are hankering after. It is not possible. You can go on crying in the wilderness for universal fraternity, friendship, equality, but if you keep your individuality, individual consciousness, selfish consciousness, there is no possibility of peace or tranquillity in the world.\nTherefore people are very much anxious at the present moment for peace and tranquillity over the world, but they do not know how that peace can be attained. Peace can be attained. The formula is there in the Bhagavad-gītā: bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29].\n[The sages, knowing Me as the ultimate purpose of all sacrifices and austerities, the Supreme Lord of all planets and demigods and the benefactor and well-wisher of all living entities, attain peace from the pangs of material miseries.]\nYou can attain peace only when you understand that God is the proprietor of everything.\nActually, God is proprietor of everything. Now, take for example this house. This house is made of wood, stone, clay, sand and everything, materials. But who is the proprietor of this wood, sand, clay? God is the proprietor. You cannot produce wood. You cannot produce sand. You cannot produce clay. You can simply work as a laborer to bring the clay, to bring the wood, to bring the stone and collect them and stand, make, construct a very big skyscraper house.\nBut actually, the proprietor is God. This land, this land, America, it was lying before you came from Europe, before you colonized. And it may be, some days after, it will be lying here, and you shall have to go. Therefore who is the proprietor of this land? God is the proprietor.\nIn this way, if we study that \"Everything belongs to God. I also belong to God—my self, my body, my mind, my activity, my energy, everything...\" Just take for example, I am claiming that \"This is my hand,\" but if God withdraws the energy of the hand, your claim for \"my hand\" at once goes. So we have to develop that God consciousness and Kṛṣṇa consciousness.\nWhen we speak of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is God consciousness. People have become degenerated, forgetting God consciousness. Therefore in the present world there is no peace. Materially, they are very much advanced. They are advanced in so-called education, but they do not know what is \"I.\" The everything, they are claiming, \"my\" and \"mine,\" but they do not know what is \"I.\"\nSo this consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is scientifically presented. It is not a sentiment. It is not a sentimental movement. It is very scientific movement. And the easiest process to come to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. So we are presenting very easy formula for coming to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness platform. Just a moment before, we were dancing and chanting equally, the boys, the girls, the men, the women.\nSo there is no distinction. Even if we do not understand the language, what is the meaning of \"Hare Kṛṣṇa,\" but because it is transcendental, because it is spiritual, from the spiritual platform, everything is equal. We forget that we are American or we are Indian, we are child, we are youth or man or woman, because in the spiritual platform there is no such bodily distinction.\nSo our request to all the guardians of the boys and girls present here, or the teachers, that they should teach from the very beginning this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness. Otherwise the future of the world is not very bright. It is recommended in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. We are having our class in our temple: the instruction of Prahlāda Mahārāja.\nPrahlāda Mahārāja was a five-years-old boy, and he was agitating this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement in his school. The schoolteachers would not allow him to speak about God, but as soon as there was some recess and the child, the boy, five-years-old boy, he would take the opportunity, call his friends and speak on Kṛṣṇa consciousness.\nAnd he said, kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1].\n[Prahlāda Mahārāja said: One who is sufficiently intelligent should use the human form of body from the very beginning of life—in other words, from the tender age of childhood—to practice the activities of devotional service, giving up all other engagements. The human body is most rarely achieved, and although temporary like other bodies, it is meaningful because in human life one can perform devotional service. Even a slight amount of sincere devotional service can give one complete perfection.]\nThe Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness, should be taught from the very beginning of education. This is the greatest drawback of modern education, that, not only in your country or any country, they have completely neglected what is meant by God. And in India, they are especially... Now, as soon as there is any question of God, they see phobia: \"Oh, this is all nonsense.\" They have become so clever.\nSo anyway, my appeal to you, American people, that you are considered to be the leader of the all nations of the world. You should take this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement very seriously. It is good for you. It is good for the whole world. It is individually, collectively, without any consideration of caste, creed or color.\nEveryone can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, anyone and everyone, at home, on the street. There is no expenditure. Suppose while you are walking if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, there is no loss, there is no expenditure, but you see how much you are profited by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is practical. We don't say that \"You come to our temple and give us some subscription. Become our member.\" No, that is a secondary question.\nOur primary movement is that everyone may take advantage of this movement and simply chant wherever possible—at home, at work, on the street, anywhere. There is no regulation where you have to chant and how you have to chant. It is spontaneous. Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. There are only three words there: Hare, Kṛṣṇa and Rāma, but they are adjusted in a different position. There are sixteen words.\nSo it is not very difficult. You can make an experiment. The children also may take pleasure. We have got our records. If you play those records and chant with it, you will find a transcendental pleasure in you. These are facts. So our request to you, that you take this movement a little seriously, and you will be happy by grace of Kṛṣṇa.\nThank you very much. If you have got any question, you can ask.\n[pause]",
"role": "assistant"
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"content": "\n [whispering aside to Prabhupāda] We should chant about five minutes. Then we'll serve milk.",
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"content": "\n Yes. No, let, if there is any question, we shall answer. That is not yet one hour.",
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"content": "\n Some of the older boys want to stay after, and you can discuss with them then. They may have some questions.",
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"content": "\n So first of all you want to chant? All right. Please join with us and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yes?",
"role": "assistant"
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"content": "\n Swāmījī, may I say something before we chant?",
"role": "user"
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"content": "\n Yes.",
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"content": "\n I want everybody to listen very carefully. This is a new song that... It would be very nice if you could learn how to sing and learn how to sing it very well. And the only way you can do it is by listening very carefully, everybody. So give your attention to these words: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.\nNow, if everybody will do this, and stand up, close your eyes very tight, put your hands up in the air and sing this song, so you really learn the words, and you can go home and teach it to your brothers and sisters and your mother and your father, and tell them what you learned today. You have to say you learned something. So if you teach them this song, that would be very nice.\nBut you must learn it by listening. So listen to the words. Then get up, close your eyes and just sing. And you'll find it's a very nice song. But unless you try it, you won't learn it, just like all the other songs you learn in your class. So try it. So I'm going to say the words, and then you say the words after me. We're going to practice it once. Okay.\n[with children repeating] Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Okay. Now we're going to clap our hands too. First I'll start by clapping. Now you follow. Okay, get all ready to clap. So, we'll go like this: [claps] one, two, three; one, two, three; one, two, three; one, two, three; one, two, three. Everybody. One, two, three... [continues as they clap, then has them repeat mantra along with clapping] Everybody stand up.\n[52:00]\n[kīrtana, with Prabhupāda]",
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"content": "\n [prema-dhvani] Thank you very much. [devotees offer obeisances]\nYou can distribute prasādam. Distribute prasādam.",
"role": "assistant"
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"content": "\nDo you want this? It's pineapple.",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\nWhat is this?",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n Pineapple. There's apple too.",
"role": "user"
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"content": "\n Pineapple? Oh. [eats] There is water?",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n Excuse me?",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\nWhat is that?",
"role": "assistant"
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{
"content": "\n Oh, there's milk and apples.",
"role": "user"
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{
"content": "\n Oh!",
"role": "assistant"
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"content": "\n Warm milk and bananas. [end]",
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] |
https://vedabase.io/en/library/transcripts/670205cc-san-francisco/
|
[
{
"content": "\n ...accustomed to follow the Vedic principles. Just like in Christian religion, those who do not follow the Bible, they are called heathens. Similarly, in Muslim, those who do not follow the Koran, they are called kafirs. Similarly, those who do not follow the Vedic principles, they are called nāstika or mlecchas. Nāstika means those who do not believe in the Vedic principles; they are called nāstika, atheist.\nAnd those whose behavior is not very clean, they are called mlecchas. So in comparison to Hindu mode of living and others in the world, there is very great difference, social sanctity and personal sanctity. So therefore, the..., formerly the mlecchas means the Muhammadan, because they are meat-eaters, they do not take bath daily and there are so many things.\nSo even those persons who were delivered by Lord Caitanya, but the author says that He could not deliver the Māyāvādī, the impersonalist sannyāsī. That means it was easier for Him to deliver the mlecchas, but it was difficult for Him to deliver the Māyāvādīs. In other words, the author is trying to place the position of the Māyāvādī sannyāsī less than the mlecchas. Less than the mlecchas.\nSo, sabe eḍāila mātra kāśīra māyāvādī [Cc. Ādi 7.39].\n[All were converted into devotees of Lord Caitanya, even the mlecchas and yavanas. Only the impersonalist followers of Śaṅkarācārya evaded Him.]\nMāyāvādī means materialist. Māyā means this matter, and vādī means those who stick to this principle of material... So there are different kinds of materialists. Because we should always know that up to the point of intelligence, it is matter. First point is the senses, the gross. The grossest type of materialist is that they are addicted to sense gratification. So this is materialist. And above this, there are mental speculators. They are also materialists, because mind is matter.\nSo the sense gratifiers and the mental speculationist, and those who are trying to reach spiritual perfection by bodily exercise... Because body is not at all spirit; it is matter. But by intellectually, by making proper adjustment... Just the only benefit of such exercises is to concentrate the mind. The mind is very disturbed. So that is also materialist. That means jñānī, yogī and karmī. \nKarmī means those who are working very hard day and night simply for sense gratification. That's all. They are called karmī. And jñānī means they are finding out solution by mental speculation. And yogī means they are trying to find out spiritual salvation by bodily exercises. They are all, in strict sense, they are all materialist.\nThere is no question of spiritualist. Spiritualism there where one understands that what is the constitutional position of spirit and act according to that. Therefore bhakti, this devotional service, is only spiritualism, because those who are devotees, they know that they are eternally part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, and therefore to be engaged in transcendental loving service of the Supreme Lord is spiritualism.\nSo,\nvṛndāvana yāite prabhu rahilā kāśīte\nmāyāvādī-gaṇa tāṅre lāgila nindite\n[Cc. Ādi 7.40]\n[While Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu was passing through Vārāṇasī on His way to Vṛndāvana, the Māyāvādī sannyāsī philosophers blasphemed against Him in many ways.]\nMāyāvādī... The followers of Śaṅkara's school, they are generally called Māyāvādī. And another Māyāvādī are called the Buddhist. In the Kāśī, in Benares, there were two kinds of Māyāvādīs. One kind of Māyāvādī, the Buddhist, they have got still Sarnath. Buddhists temples there are, because Lord Buddha, he started his meditation near Gayā at about hundred miles off from Benares. Then his disciples established monasteries near Kāśī, because Benares is well-known sacred place since a very long time, so they also established there.\nFormerly there was no such animosities between the Hindus and the Buddhists. They were practically on the same platform, but philosophically they were different. Just like the Māyāvādīs, the followers of Śaṅkarite, they are still Hindus. They are not out of it. Similarly, Buddhists also were considered as Hindu. But when Buddha religion was completely driven away from India's boundary, then now it is considered another sect. So the Kāśī Māyāvādī means both the Buddhist and the followers of Śaṅkarites.\nsannyāsī ha-iyā kare gāyana nācana\nnā kare vedānta-pāṭha kare saṅkīrtana\n[Cc. Ādi 7.41]\n[The blasphemers said, ”Although a sannyāsī, He does not take interest in the study of Vedānta but instead always engages in chanting and dancing in saṅkīrtana.]\nmūrkha sannyāsī nija-dharma nāhi jāne\nbhāvuka ha-iyā phere bhāvukera sane\n[Cc. Ādi 7.42]\n[This Caitanya Mahāprabhu is an illiterate sannyāsī and therefore does not know His real function. Guided only by His sentiments, He wanders about in the company of other sentimentalists.]\nSo when Lord Caitanya was living at Benares, on His way to Vṛndāvana... Not... He never made His headquarter anywhere else except Jagannātha Purī. Even Benares... He was worshiper of Vṛndāvana, but He did not make His headquarter at Vṛndāvana. So when on His way to Vṛndāvana He stopped at Benares and was staying at Candraśekhara's house, and He was taking His meals at the house of Tapana Miśra.\nSo when He was passing—because His only propaganda was Hare Kṛṣṇa, just we are doing—so when He was passing on the road, all the people joined. All the people. It is... It has got so attraction, even nonsignificant persons like us, when we chant, it attracts people, and what to speak of Lord Caitanya? He is personally chanting. So it attracted many people. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu within three, four days became very famous man, and everyone began to say, \"Oh, from Bengal, nice sannyāsī, beautiful sannyāsī, a young sannyāsī has come, and He is chanting and dancing, and people are very much attached to Him.\" In this way there was some propaganda in the city.\nBut the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they could not tolerate. They were, I mean to say, backbiting. What they were saying? \"Oh, here is a sannyāsī, and He's dancing.\" According to Māyāvāda sannyāsa, this dancing and singing is forbidden. Forbidden. In Muhammadan religion also, dancing and singing is forbidden. I do not know what is there in the Bible, but I understand in the Bible there is saṅkīrtana allowed. I have asked our Kīrtanānanda to write some article, \"Saṅkīrtana and Bible,\" because he is..., he knows Bible very well than other members. So we shall see very nice how in Bible there is saṅkīrtana. The Muhammadan Koran, they do not... In some of their sections there is saṅkīrtana, not within the mosque, but without. Anyway...\nSo similarly, these Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they also do not like singing and dancing. Of course, now they are stopping, finish. They are also taking now to this process of singing and dancing in India. So formerly they used to, I mean to say, decry. So\nsannyāsī ha-iyā kare nācana gāyana\n[Cc. Ādi 7.41]:\n[The blasphemers said, ”Although a sannyāsī, He does not take interest in the study of Vedānta but instead always engages in chanting and dancing in saṅkīrtana.]\n\"Oh, here is a sannyāsī. He is dancing and singing.\" Nā kare vedānta-śravaṇa: \"He does not give His attention for studying Vedānta,\" kare saṅkīrtana, \"and always engaged in Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa.\"\nMūrkha sannyāsī: \"That means He has no knowledge. He has not studied all this Vedānta philosophy, and He's a nonsense. What He can do?\" Sometimes we are considered a nonsense because we have no other stock except chanting. And actually, we have no stock except chanting. But why do we talk of philosophy? Because the fools want to talk of philosophy. Otherwise, there is no need of talking philosophy. Simply by chanting, everything is complete.\nSo Caitanya Mahāprabhu was showing this example, and other Māyāvādī sannyāsīs criticizing Him, \"Oh, here is a..., a foolish, is a,\" mean, \"a illiterate sann...\" Because there were many illiterate sannyāsī also in India. \"Illiterate sannyāsī. He does not know how to execute...\"\n[aside:] Oh, I have forgotten.\n\"...how to execute the sannyāsa life. Therefore He's chanting and dancing.\" This sort of criticism was going on. Bhāvuka ha-iyā phere bhāvukera sane [Cc. Ādi 7.42]: \"And there are other sentimentalist who are also equally foolish and ignorant. So therefore they are following this sannyāsī.\" E saba śuniyā prabhu hāse mane mane: \"When Lord Caitanya was being criticized in that way, He was smiling. He was smiling: 'What can I do?' \" So,\ne saba śuniyā prabhu hāse mane\nupekṣā kariyā kāro nā kaila sambhāṣaṇe\n[Cc. Ādi 7.43]\n[Hearing all this blasphemy, Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu merely smiled to Himself, rejected all these accusations and did not talk with the Māyāvādīs.]\nHe was very grave. \"Oh, let them criticize. Let Me do My duty. That's all.\"\nupekṣā kariyā kaila mathurā gamana\nmathurā dekhiyā punaḥ kaila āgamana\n[Cc. Ādi 7.44]\n[Thus neglecting the blasphemy of the Vārāṇasī Māyāvādīs, Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu proceeded to Mathurā, and after visiting Mathurā He returned to meet the situation.]\nSo because He was busy at that time for visiting Vṛndāvana, so He did not take care of this, and He went, left Kāśī, or Benares, after three, four days and, er, although He was criticized, but He did not challenge. He went to Vṛndāvana.\nkāśīte lekhaka śūdra-śrīcandraśekhara\ntāṅra ghare rahilā prabhu svatantra īśvara\n[Cc. Ādi 7.45]\n[This time Lord Caitanya stayed at the house of Candraśekhara, although he was regarded as a śūdra or kāyastha, for the Lord, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is completely independent.]\nNow, at Benares He stayed, and in the house of Candraśekhara. Candraśekhara was not a brāhmaṇa, and a sannyāsī is not supposed to stay any place except in the house of a brāhmaṇa or in a temple. Otherwise, he is considered lower. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not care for all these formalities. He used to stay with Candraśekhara although he was not a brāhmaṇa—a śūdra, a laborer class, or little more than that. So why? Because He is completely independent, because He is Kṛṣṇa.\nKṛṣṇa is taking the shape of a hog. Keśava dhṛta-śūkara-rūpa [Śrī Daśāvatāra-stotra 3\n]\n.\n[O Keśava! O Lord of the universe! O Lord Hari who have assumed the form of a boar! All glories to You! The earth, which had sunk to the bottom of the Garbha Ocean, sits fixed upon the tip of Your tusk like a spot upon the moon.]\nHog is considered to be the lowest animal, because it eats stool. Just like in human society, those who are dog-eaters, they are considered the lowest of the human society, similarly, amongst the animals, the hog is considered to be the lowest of the animals, because it eats stool. But Kṛṣṇa took the appearance of a hog. That does not mean that Kṛṣṇa has become a hog. He is fully independent. And what sort of hog? That hog was covering practically half of the universe. It..., He was so big.\nAnd in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, there is very nice explanation of the incarnation of hog. The... And They were being praised. The incarnation of hog was being praised from higher planets. The higher planets, three higher planets, they are resided by most pious men. They are called Janaloka, Tapoloka and Satyaloka. These three higher planets, they are considered to be the most pious place within this material world.\nSo they were praying, and when the incarnation of hog was sprinkling water by, I mean to say, shaking His body, and the sprinkle of the water was dropping in those three lokas, planets, and they were thinking themselves that \"We are becoming purified.\" Although they are considered to be the most pious and purified residents of this material world, still they prayed that \"We are becoming purified.\"\nSo Kṛṣṇa or His devotee, they're independent. They are not under the rules and regulation of this material world. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu showed this example, that He was staying at a place which is considered abominable by other sannyāsīs. Kāśīte lekhaka śūdra-śrīcandraśekhara [Cc. Ādi 7.45]. \n[This time Lord Caitanya stayed at the house of Candraśekhara, although he was regarded as a śūdra or kāyastha, for the Lord, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is completely independent.]\nLekhaka śūdra means he was a clerk. Clerk. The clerk, clerical post, was offered to the śūdras, to the laborer class.\nThere was a strike in Calcutta of the clerks. Jardine and Skinner, an European firm, they had many jute [indistinct]. And the clerks, I mean to say, made a strike. So when their, I mean to say, chief man met the manager, so, and asked that \"Whether you want to compromise with us?\" the manager said, \"No. I don't wish to compromise with you. I don't care for you, because you are educated laborer.\" He gave the title to the clerks, \"educated laborer.\" So actually, in Hindu society, the clerks were called educated laborer. So here it is lekhaka śūdra. Lekhaka śūdra means clerk, but he's śūdra. Lekhaka śūdra śrīcandraśekhara, tāṅra ghare rahilā [Cc. Ādi 7.45].\nBut spiritually there is no such distinction. We should always remember that materially, there may be higher, lower class. There is, always, in every society, in every country. But spiritually there is no such consideration. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's propaganda. He made Haridāsa Ṭhākura—he was a Muhammadan—as the spiritual master for saṅkīrtana, namācārya. And He picked up Sanātana Gosvāmī and Rūpa Gosvāmī, who were rejected by the Hindu society, and He made them gosvāmīs. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's peculiarity. And here also we see that a śūdra, a laborer class, a clerk, who is considered to be lower in the society, He was staying at his house.\nSo Caitanya Mahāprabhu... And Rāmānanda Rāya, he was also a śūdra, and he was a householder and a politician, governor, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu took instruction from him. Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave him the preference of being a teacher. He was hesitating. Rāmānanda Rāya was hesitating, \"Oh, Sir, You are sannyāsī, in the highest stage of āśrama, and You, in Your previous life You belonged to the brāhmaṇa sect. So You belong to the highest class, and I am a śūdra, I am householder and I am a politician. So how lower I am in comparison to You? And You are taking instruction from me, so I am feeling hesitation.\"\nCaitanya Mahāprabhu said, \"No, no. You don't feel hesitation.\" He enunciated,\nkibā śūdra kibā vipra nyāsī kene naya\nyei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya\n[Cc. Madhya 8.128]\n[Whether one is a brāhmaṇa, a sannyāsī or a śūdra—regardless of what he is—he can become a spiritual master if he knows the science of Kṛṣṇa.]\n\"Never mind a man, whatever he is. He may be a laborer class, he may be a brāhmaṇa, or he may be a sannyāsī or he may be a householder. It doesn't matter. Anyone who knows the science of Kṛṣṇa, he is spiritual master. Anyone.\" That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's, I mean to, highest con..., especially for the Hindu society. They have got so much caste distinction, lower and higher and this and that way.\nSo Caitanya Mahāprabhu broke all these barriers. His simple process was: anyone who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is welcome; he is the highest personality in the world. That was His proposal. So He did not care that \"What people will say that I am staying at a śūdra's place?\" No.\ntapana-miśrera ghare bhikṣā-nirvāhaṇa\nsannyāsīra saṅge nāhi māne nimantraṇa\n[Cc. Ādi 7.46]\n[As a matter of principle, Lord Caitanya regularly accepted His food at the house of Tapana Miśra. He never mixed with other sannyāsīs, nor did He accept invitations from them.]\nSo He was staying with a śūdra, and He was taking His meal at another brāhmaṇa... He was also not sannyāsī, but he was a brāhmaṇa. So in this way He was staying at Benares.\nsanātana gosāñi āsi' tāṅhāi mililā\ntāṅra śikṣā lāgi' prabhu du-māsa rahilā\n[Cc. Ādi 7.47]\n[When Sanātana Gosvāmī came from Bengal, he met Lord Caitanya at the house of Tapana Miśra, where Lord Caitanya remained continuously for two months to teach him devotional service.]\nSo this, this incidence is that Caitanya Mahāprabhu, first of all He visited Benares and went to Vṛndāvana. Then, while coming back, He stayed at Allahabad, Prayāg, for ten days for instructing Rūpa Gosvāmī. That we have already discussed. Now again He has come back to Benares. So He was staying at Candraśekhara's house, and He was taking His meals at Tapana Miśra's house. In the meantime, Sanātana Gosvāmī came to see Him.\nSanātana Gosvāmī , after retirement, he had many troubles. He was arrested by the Nawab because Nawab thought him that he was very important hand. \"He has now... By sentiment, he's going to Caitanya.\" So he thought it wise to arrest him. And Sanātana Gosvāmī had some money, so he bribed the superintendent of jail, and he let him go away.\nSo with great difficulty he reached Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and he met Caitanya Mahāprabhu at Benares, and for two months he was instructed all the principles of devotional service and different incarnations. We have... Some part of this Sanātana instruction, we have discussed. Again we shall discuss. So this Sanātana Gosvāmī met at Benares while Caitanya Mahāprabhu was returning back from Vṛndāvana. We shall discuss this point tomorrow.\nThank you very much.",
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"content": "\n Hare Kṛṣṇa. [end]",
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"content": "\n It's on page twelve. It's almost in the middle, the second paragraph.\n\"The universe has its own time, fixed by the energy of the Complete Whole, and when that time is complete, this temporary manifestation will be annihilated by the complete arrangement of the Complete.\"",
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"content": "\n Yes. Everything in this material world, it has got a fixed time. And within that fixed time there are six kinds of changes: first birth, then growth, then to stay, then to produce by-product, then dwindling, then vanish. This is the law of material nature. This flower takes birth, just like a bud, then grows, then stays for two, three days, then it produces a seed, by-product, then dries up gradually, then finish.\n[aside:] You sit down like this.\nSo this is called ṣaḍ-vikāra, six kinds of changes.\nSo you cannot stop this by your so-called material science. No. This is avidyā. People are trying to save himself, and sometimes talking foolishly that by scientific knowledge man will be immortal. The Russians say like that. So this is avidyā, ignorance. You cannot stop the process of the material laws.\nTherefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. The process of material nature, which is composed of three qualities—sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa... Tri-guṇa. Another meaning of guṇa is rope. Just like you have seen rope, they're twisted in three process. First of all thin rope, then three of them, they are rolled, then again three of them rolled, then again three. It becomes very strong. So these three qualities, sattva-, raja-, tamo-guṇa, they are mixed up.\nAgain they produce some by-product, again mixed up, again mixed up. In this way eighty-one times they're twisted. So guṇamayī māyā, says binding you more and more. So you cannot get out of this binding of this material world. Binding. So therefore it is called apavarga. This process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness means nullifying the pavarga process.\nYesterday I was explaining what is this pavarga to Gargamuni. This pavarga means the line of the alphabet pa. You know, those who have studied this devanāgarī, there are, devanāgarī alphabets, ka, kha, ga, gha, na, ca, cha, ja, jha, na. In this way five set, one line. Then come the fifth set, comes pa, pha, ba, bha, ma. So this pavarga means pa. First of all pa. Pa means parābhava, defeat. Everyone is trying, struggling very hard to survive, but defeated. This is first pavarga. Pa means parābhava.\nAnd then pha. Pha means phena. Just like horse, when working very hard, you'll find some foams coming out of the mouth, we sometimes also, when we are very tired after working very hard, the tongue becomes dry and some foam comes. So everyone is working very hard for sense gratification, but defeated. The pa, pha and ba. Ba means this bondage. So first pa, second pha, then bondage third, then ba, bha. Bha means bhīti, fearfulness. And then ma. Ma means mṛtyu, or death.\nSo this Kṛṣṇa conscious process is apavarga. Apa. A means none. Pavarga, these are the symptoms of this material world. And when you add this word a, apavarga, that means it is nullified. So...\n[aside:] You can sit down.\nThis apavarga-vartmani. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the path of apavarga, nullifying these pavargas.\nsatāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido\nbhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ\ntaj-joṣaṇād āśv apavarga-vartmani\nśraddhā [ratir] bhaktir anukramiṣyati\n[SB 3.25.25]\nSatāṁ prasaṅgān. This discussion, this is called satāṁ prasaṅgān, discussion. Just like there are many conferences, assembly, they have got different types of talks. Just like we were discussing last week, śrotavyādīni rājendra..., apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām [SB 2.1.2]. Discussion. Those who are blind for self-realization, they do not take care, they have got many things to discuss. But so far Kṛṣṇa conscious people are concerned, their subject matter of discussion is one: apavarga-vartmani, the path of disintegration.\nSo how it is happen? Satāṁ prasaṅgān. When you form this society, Kṛṣṇa conscious society, and you discuss about this apavarga from the authoritative literature, just we are doing, then it becomes relishable. You cannot discuss all these thing with a storekeeper. That will be not relishable. Satāṁ prasaṅgān: amongst the devotees. If you take this Īśopaniṣad and you ask one butcher or a man like that \"Come on. We shall discuss,\" he'll throw away. The other day we were coming on this Venice Boulevard. Gargamuni gave one card to a boy. You remember? [laughs] He immediately threw away. They have no taste.\nSo you cannot discuss all this transcendental knowledge with these demons. Satāṁ prasaṅgān. Therefore you have to discuss... Therefore we are opening so many centers, that people may take advantage of this Society. Because anywhere else, he'll not have the opportunity. His life is being spoiled. The modern civilization is like that. It is a killing civilization, ātma-hā. Ātma-hano janāḥ. All these people are killing themselves, because they do not know what is life; simply like animal living. The animal does not know what is life, but he is under the laws of nature, evolution, going on. But when you get this human form of life, there is responsibility. You have to chalk out.\nHere is a chance you can become Kṛṣṇa conscious and make your life solve all problems. If not, then again go to the cycle of birth and death again, 8,400,000. It will take many, many millions of years again to come back. Just like the sunshine you will see after twenty-four..., twelve hours, twenty-four hours, morning. Everything is a process. Process. So if you lose this opportunity of elevating yourself, then again you come to the process. Nature's law is very strong. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī [Bg. 7.14]. The sooner you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Such person is able to overcome this process of material nature.\nSo here it is said the universe has its own time, fixed by the energy of the complete whole. Universe is also big gigantic body, material body. That's all. Just like your body, everything is relative. Modern science, the law of relativity. An atom, a small particle, small ant, so it has got a relative life, you have got relative life. Similarly, this gigantic body, it may be many millions of years this universe will exist, but it will not exist forever. That is a fact. Because it is very gigantic, therefore it may remain for some millions of years, but it will end. That is the law of nature.\nAnd when that time is complete, this temporary manifestation will be annihilated by the complete arrangement of the Complete, the Supreme Complete. When your time will be complete, \"No more, sir, in this body,\" nobody can check. The arrangement is so strong. You cannot say, \"Let me remain.\" Actually it happens. When I was in India, Allahabad, one of our, a known friend, he was very rich man. So he was dying. So he was requesting the doctor, \"Can you not give me at least four years to live? I have got some plan, you see. I could not finish it.\" You see?\nĀśā-pāśa-śatair baddhāḥ [Bg. 16.12]. This is demonic. Everyone thinks that \"Oh, I have to do this. I have to do this.\" No. The doctors or doctors' fathers or his father, no scientist can check. \"Oh, no, sir. No four years. Not even four minutes. You have to go immediately.\" This is the law.\nSo before that moment comes, one should be very dexterous to realize Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tūrṇam yateta. Tūrṇam means very swiftly, very quickly you should realize Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Anu-mṛtyu patet yāvan [SB 11.9.29]. Next, before the death, next death comes, you must finish your business. That is intelligence. Otherwise, defeat.\nThank you. [end]",
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"content": "\n\ndāridrya-nāśa, bhava-kṣaya—premera 'phala' naya\nprema-sukha-bhoga-mukhya prayojana haya\n[Cc Madhya 20.142]\n[The goal of love of Godhead is not to become materially rich or free from material bondage. The real goal is to be situated in devotional service to the Lord and to enjoy transcendental bliss.]\nSo by devotional service one should not expect, \"My miserable material condition may be improved\" or \"I may be liberated from this material entanglement.\" So that is also a kind of sense gratification. If I want that \"Let me be free from this entanglement...\" Just like the yogīs and the jñānīs, they try. They try to be free from this material entanglement.\nBut in the devotional service there is no such desire. In the devo... Because it is pure love. There is no expectation that \"I shall be profited in this way.\" No. It is not a profitable, commercial business, that \"Unless I get in return something, oh, I shall not practice this devotional service in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.\" There is no question of profit.\nLord Caitanya prays to the Lord like this:\nna dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ\nkavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye\nmama janmani janmanīśvare\nbhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi\n[Cc Antya 20.29]\n[O Lord of the universe, I do not desire material wealth, materialistic followers, a beautiful wife or fruitive activities described in flowery language. All I want, life after life, is unmotivated devotional service to You.]\n\"Oh,\" He says, \"My dear Lord, Jagadīśa...\" Jagadīśa means the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa. Jagat, jagat means this world, material world or spiritual world, all worlds. Jagat. Jagat gacchati iti jagat: which is progressing, that is called jagat. So Jagat-īśa, the supreme master of this jagat, going concern. \"Jagadīśa, O the supreme master of this jagat, I pray unto You that I do not want...,\" na dhanam, \"I do not want any wealth,\" na janam, \"I do not want any number of followers...\" Na janaṁ na dhanaṁ na kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye. Kavitām means very nice wife, poetical. \"I do not want.\"\n\"Then what do You want?\" Mama janmani janmanīśvare. Janmani janmani means \"birth after birth.\" So He does not want liberation also. Because when we speak of liberation, there is no birth. Mad-gatvā punar janma na vidyate: \"One who reaches the kingdom of God, he hasn't got to come back again to take birth here.\" So here Lord Caitanya says, mama janmani janmani: \"birth after birth.\" That means \"I do not want liberation also.\" Mama janmani janmani.\n\"Then what do You want?\" Īśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī: \"My dear Lord, I may be put in any condition of My life, but please bestow this benediction, that I may not forget. That's all.\" \"I may not forget. Because due to My forgetfulness I am suffering so much. So if I can remember You, I don't mind in whatever condition I am.\" He has to give the factual fact. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābham [Bg 6.22].\n[The stage of perfection is called trance, or samādhi, when one's mind is completely restrained from material mental activities by practice of yoga. This is characterized by one's ability to see the self by the pure mind and to relish and rejoice in the self. In that joyous state, one is situated in boundless transcendental happiness and enjoys himself through transcendental senses. Established thus, one never departs from the truth, and upon gaining this he thinks there is no greater gain. Being situated in such a position, one is never shaken, even in the midst of greatest difficulty. This indeed is actual freedom from all miseries arising from material contact.]\nIn the Bhagavad-gītā in the Ninth..., Sixth Chapter we find in the yoga system, yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ: \"When one achieves that perfectional yoga,\" yaṁ labdhvā, \"by gaining that perfection,\" yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābham, \"then he has no other desire to achieve.\"\nJust like we achieve something in this material world, but that does not stop our desire to achieve something more. I may achieve millions of dollars, but that does not make me satisfied. I want further ten millions of dollars. And when I get further ten millions of dollars, then I desire for further hundred millions of dollars. There is no cessation.\nSo here is a thing, Kṛṣṇa consciousness: one who is perfect in that system, bhakti-yoga system, the Bhagavad-gītā says, yam labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ. Adhikam means \"greater than this.\" We want, we desire something which is greater than what I possess now. Therefore I desire. I have got hundred million dollar, and I want million millions of dollars, because that amount is greater than what I possess now. But one who possesses this devotional service, he does not think anything there is in the world which is more valuable than this. So why should he enquire? Why should he desire? He has got the sublime thing. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābham. \nLābham means gain. Manyate na: \"He does not think.\" Na. What is that? Adhikam. Adhikam means greater. If I have got two dollars' possession and if you offer me ten dollars, I think, \"Oh, it is better.\" So he possesses such a thing that nothing is greater than, because he possesses devotional service. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not different from Kṛṣṇa. So therefore he possesses Kṛṣṇa, and what thing can be greater than Kṛṣṇa? Therefore he is fully satisfied.\nyaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ\nmanyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ\nyasmin sthito guruṇāpi\nduḥkhena na vicālyate\n[Bg 6.22]\n\"And one who is situated in that condition, then,\" guruṇāpi duḥkhena, \"the severest type of miseries, offered to him, he is not shaken.\" He is steady. He is steady. Just like a five-year-old boy, Prahlāda Mahārāja, and his father, atheist: \"Oh, you rascal boy. You are chanting God's name? Who is God? I am God. Why don't you chant my name? If you don't do that, then I shall throw you in the fire.\" Oh, he is steady. He said, \"Father, I cannot do that,\" this little boy. \"You nonsense, you cannot do that? How do you dare to speak before me like this? Even the demigods, they are afraid of me.\" \"Oh, yes, father. By the mercy of whom you are speaking so nicely, so by the mercy of Him I am speaking also like that.\" \"Oh, I don't care for anyone's mercy.\"\nSo this is... And so much wrath of his severe father, oh, he is not... Steady. Steady. So that is the characteristic of a pure devotee. Even in the greatest difficulty, even in the greatest danger, he is not shaken; he is steady. Yaṁ labdhvā. This is... This is the perfection of yoga. When one is steady in every circumstances, that is the perfection of yoga. That can be achieved easily by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness.\nyaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ\nmanyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ\nyasmin sthito guruṇāpi\nduḥkhena na vicālyate\n[Bg 6.22]\n[The stage of perfection is called trance, or samādhi, when one's mind is completely restrained from material mental activities by practice of yoga. This is characterized by one's ability to see the self by the pure mind and to relish and rejoice in the self. In that joyous state, one is situated in boundless transcendental happiness and enjoys himself through transcendental senses. Established thus, one never departs from the truth, and upon gaining this he thinks there is no greater gain. Being situated in such a position, one is never shaken, even in the midst of greatest difficulty. This indeed is actual freedom from all miseries arising from material contact.]\nSo here also we should not be aspiring after improving our material condition or liberation or anything. These are all desire. Desires. They say that \"desireless,\" but desire cannot be completely absent, because I am living entity. So my desire should be not to forget Kṛṣṇa. That's all, that one desire. That is real desire. And all other desires, they are foolish.\nSo we cannot be desireless, but we should desire only bona fide. Just like I am part and parcel of the Supreme. So if I desire to work in cooperation with the Supreme, that is my natural position. That is desirelessness. If you... Suppose in this material condition, if you desire to eat, oh, that is natural. So long you have got this body, you have to eat. If somebody says, \"Oh, you are desiring eating?\" Nobody says like that. Similarly, what is natural desire, that is permitted. And what is not natural, that is called \"become desireless.\" Don't desire like this, unnatural.\nSo desirelessness means not to desire unnatural thing. But to desire Kṛṣṇa's remembrance, that is natural. Because I am part and parcel, how can I forget? This forgetfulness is the cause of my so many desires. And as soon as I desire Kṛṣṇa, there will be no other desire. That is desirelessness.\nSo, prema-sukha-bhoga-mukhya prayojana haya. Prema-sukha. The happiness in the matter of our reciprocation as the whole and the part and parcel, that sense is the highest pleasure. That we should aspire after, not that by becoming Kṛṣṇa consciousness we may desire some material profit. That is not.\nveda-śāstre kahe sambandha, abhidheya, prayojana\nkṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa-bhakti, prema—tina mahā-dhana\n[Cc Madhya 20.143]\n[In the Vedic literatures, Kṛṣṇa is the central point of attraction, and His service is our activity. To attain the platform of love of Kṛṣṇa is life’s ultimate goal. Therefore Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa’s service and love of Kṛṣṇa are the three great riches of life.]\nNow, we are aspiring after possessing something, possessiveness. What we should possess? The possession is Kṛṣṇa, and desire is reciprocation between Kṛṣṇa and myself, and the ultimate end is love. That's all. Just like we have got perverted reflection of that love here between the two lovers. They don't want anything. He wants she, and she wants he. That's all. That is desire, and their reciprocation of loving affairs and the ultimate end, that they are peaceful in love.\nThis is only perverted reflection of the real love, which is reciprocated with Kṛṣṇa. Here there is no possibility of love; this is all lust. But we call it love because it is just the reflection. Just a real... That is real, and this is unreal. Just like shadow and reality. There is gulf of difference between the shadow and reality. So whatever love we see in this world, that love is only a perverted reflection of that real love with Kṛṣṇa.\nvedādi sakala śāstre kṛṣṇa-mukhya sambandha\ntāṅra jñāne ānuṣaṅge yāya māyā-bandha\n[Cc Madhya 20.144]\n[In all revealed scriptures, beginning with the Vedas, the central point of attraction is Kṛṣṇa. When complete knowledge of Him is realized, the bondage of māyā, the illusory energy, is automatically broken.]\nSo a devotee is not anxious for liberation, because his intimate connection with Kṛṣṇa means he is liberated. One cannot be in intimate touch with Kṛṣṇa unless one is liberated. So liberation and intimate connection with Kṛṣṇa, the same thing.\nyeṣāṁ anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ\njanānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām\nte dvandva-moha-nirmuktā\nbhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ\n[Bg 7.28]\n[Persons who have acted piously in previous lives and in this life, whose sinful actions are completely eradicated and who are freed from the duality of delusion, engage themselves in My service with determination.]\nYeṣām...\n[aside:] Have you got Bhagavad-gītā here? Yes. Just try to find out this śloka. I don't remember where it is. I think in the Eighth Chapter.\nyeṣāṁ anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ\njanānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām\nte dvandva-moha-nirmuktā\nbhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ\n[Bg 7.28]\nYeṣām. Yeṣām means those who are anta-gataṁ pāpam. Pāpam means sinful reaction, one who has surpassed all sinful reactions. Yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānām. Such persons, puṇya-karmāṇam, who has have done never any sinful action but always engaged in the matter of pious activities, puṇya-karmāṇam, such persons can only devote himself fully in the service of the Lord, Kṛṣṇa.\n[aside:] Have you got it? What is that?",
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"content": "\n \"But those men of virtuous deeds whose sin has come to an end, freed from the delusion of dualities, worship Me, steadfastly avowed.\"",
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"content": "\n Yes. So to worship Kṛṣṇa steadfast means he is liberated from delusion. That is mukti. One who has got still some doubt—\"Why shall I worship Kṛṣṇa?\"—that means still in delusion, and still the reaction of his sinful life is not finished. A slight doubt means there is slight tinge still. And one who is dvandva-moha-nirmuktā [Bg 7.28], duality...\n[Persons who have acted piously in previous lives and in this life, whose sinful actions are completely eradicated and who are freed from the duality of delusion, engage themselves in My service with determination.]\nDuality means \"Whether I shall do it or not? Whether I shall stick up to this process of Kṛṣṇa conscious or not?\" This is called duality. So one who is free from all these sinful reactions, he has no more duality. He has firm faith: \"Yes! Kṛṣṇa worship is the final.\"\nSo Kṛṣṇa worship means he is liberated already. Just like the same example: If a man is sitting on the high-court bench, it is to be understood that he has passed all educational qualification, and he is a good lawyer; therefore... There is no more necessity to ask, \"Whether you have passed M.A. examination or law examination?\" This is foolishness. Similarly, if one is, I mean to say, strictly in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it is to be understood that he is liberated.\nLiberation, the definition of liberation, is in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, mukti..., svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ. Hitvā... Muktir hitvānyathā rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ [SB 2.10.6]. \n[The merging of the living entity, along with his conditional living tendency, with the mystic lying down of the Mahā-Viṣṇu is called the winding up of the cosmic manifestation. Liberation is the permanent situation of the form of the living entity after he gives up the changeable gross and subtle material bodies.]\nMukti means hitvā anyathā rūpam. Now we are now represented in different kinds of formalities. You have got a different kinds of idea; I have got different kinds of idea; another man has different from others. There are difference; therefore we are clashing each other. This is the sign of bondage. And mukti means when we are liberated from these different kinds of ideas, and svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ, when we are situated in our constitutional position, that is called mukti, liberation.\nAnd what is our constitutional position? \"Oh, I am the part and parcel of the Supreme, Kṛṣṇa.\" Then what is my duty? Duty, part's duty, is to serve the whole. That's all. Just like your hand, the part of your body. What is the duty of hand? To serve the body. It is very easy thing. If you are part and parcel of the Supreme, then where is your duty? Your duty is to serve Him. You have no other duty.\nSo one who understands this firmly and convincingly, he is liberated. He is liberated. Oh, how can I say liberated? \"He is also now going to the office. He is dressing like ordinary man. What do you mean?\" Mukti means he will dress like something else or he will have four hands or eight legs? No. Simply change of consciousness, that's all.\nSo Kṛṣṇa consciousness means change of your consciousness. I am thinking, \"I am this matter. I have got so many duties with this material world.\" So when you change this consciousness—\"No, I belong to Kṛṣṇa. I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa; therefore whole energy should be for Kṛṣṇa\"—this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now I am applying all my energy to this material conception of life. When you apply your energy, your transcendental energy, to Kṛṣṇa, then you are liberated.\nTherefore a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, they are not hankering after Kṛṣṇa..., mukti. They say, muktiḥ mukulitāñjali sevate asmān [Kṛṣṇa-karṇāmṛta 107]:\n[If I am engaged in devotional service unto You, my dear Lord, then very easily can I perceive Your presence everywhere. And as far as liberation is concerned, I think that liberation stands at my door with folded hands, waiting to serve me-and all material conveniences of dharma [religiosity], artha [economic development] and kāma [sense gratification] stand with her.]\n\"Oh, the mukti lady is standing with folded hands, 'My dear sir, what can I do for you?' \" And devotee doesn't care. \"Oh, what can I [you] do for me? I don't want your help.\" There is a nice verse of Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura. He lived for seven hundred years in Vṛndāvana, and he was..., became a great devotee of Kṛṣṇa. In the beginning he was an impersonalist. His life is very nice. It is better to cite his life.\nHe was a South Indian brāhmaṇa, a very rich man and very much sensuous. He kept one prostitute. Prostitute. So he was so much, I mean to say, devoted to the prostitute that he was performing his father's, I mean to say, death ceremony and he was asking the priest, \"Please, haste. Please make haste. I have to go. I have to go.\" [indistinct] prostitute's house. So he was very rich man. Priestly, anyway, he finished that business. Then there was ceremony. He took very nice foodstuff in a bag, and he was going to that prostitute's house.\nBut when he came out of his home, oh, it was raining torrently. You see? So he never..., never cared for that raining. He went to the riverside. Oh, there was no boat, and it was, river was waving. The waves were very furious. And he thought that \"How can I go to the other side?\" He was daily going to the other side of the river. Then, anyway, he swimmed over, crossed over by swimming. Then the prostitute thought, \"Oh, it is today raining, and he may not come.\" So he [she] blocked the door and went to sleep. And when he came to the house he saw, \"Oh, the door is blocked,\" and it was raining still. \"So how can I go?\"\nSo he crossed over the wall by catching one snake. Just see how much intensely he was attached. And he went to the prostitute, and she was astonished: \"Well, Bilvamaṅgala\"—his name was Bilvamaṅgala—\"how do you dare to come here like this?\" Oh, he described, \"Yes. I did this, I did this, I did this, I did this.\" Oh, the prostitute was astonished. His name was..., her name was Cintāmaṇi. So the prostitute said, \"My dear Bilvamaṅgala, if you have got so intense love for me, oh, had it been for God, for Kṛṣṇa, how would have been, your life, sublime.\" Oh, that struck him: \"Yes.\" He at once left and went away: \"Yes, you are right.\"\nThen he was [going to] Vṛndāvana. He saw another beautiful woman, because he was practiced to that habit. So he was going behind. Although he determined, \"Now I am going to Vṛndāvana,\" on the way he was again attracted by another woman. So he followed that woman. That woman belonged to a respectable family. So he came, and the woman said to his..., to her husband, \"Oh, this man is following me. Please ask, 'What is the idea?' \"\nSo the husband asked, \"My dear sir, you appear to be very nice gentleman, and you belong to very aristocratic family. From your appearances I understand. What do you want? Why you are following my wife?\" He said, \"Yes, I am following wife because I want to embrace her.\" \"Oh, you want to embrace? Come on. Embrace. Come on. You are welcome. Come on.\" So the wife also... She [he] ordered, \"Oh, here is a guest. He wants to embrace you and kiss you. So please decorate yourself nicely so that he may enjoy.\"\nSo the wife also followed the instruction of the husband, because wife's duty is to follow the instruction. And when Bilvamaṅgala came inside before the woman, he said, \"My dear mother, will you kindly give your hairpin?\" \"Yes. Why?\" \"I have got some business.\" Then he took the hairpin and at once pierced his eyes: \"Oh, this eye is my enemy.\" And he became blind. He became blind. Then all of them... \"That's all right. Now no more I shall be disturbed.\"\nSo in that blindness he was penancing, austerity in Vṛndāvana. So by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa came like a boy: \"Oh, My dear sir, why you are starving? Why don't you take some milk?\" \"Oh, who are You, my dear boy?\" \"Oh, I am a boy of this village. I am a cowherd boy. If you like, I can give you daily some milk.\" \"All right. Very good.\" So Kṛṣṇa was suppling him milk. So there was friendship.\nAnd he has written that bhakti is such a thing that muktiḥ mukulitāñjali sevate asmān: \"Mukti, mukti is nothing for me.\" So this is his verse, muktiḥ mukulitāñjali sevate asmān: \"So we have no desire for mukti. When Kṛṣṇa comes to supply milk, oh, then what is the use of my mukti?\" You see? That's a great soul, Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura. It is worth to remember his name. For seven hundred years he lived in Vṛndāvana, and he has written a nice book which is Kṛṣṇa-karṇāmṛta. That is a very authoritative book, Kṛṣṇa-karṇāmṛta. Lord Caitanya picked up this book, and He recommended all His devotees to read that Kṛṣṇa-karṇāmṛta book.\nThank you very much.",
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"content": "\n Do you have it here?",
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"content": "\n Yes.",
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"content": "\n Is it in English? [end]",
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https://vedabase.io/en/library/transcripts/690325in-hawaii/
| [{"content":"\n So now you come here. You have given... There is no āsana, sitting? Give him one pi(...TRUNCATED)
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