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46,500 | 344 | QUESTION:
Can we turn, then, to the article that appeared on
1 May 1983 on the front page of the Mail.
PRSE0000199, please.
I'm sorry, sir, we had a difficulty with redaction
earlier today and -- but this isn't the article we had
the difficulty with, so I think we are just being e xtra
cautious before we put so... |
46,501 | 344 | QUESTION:
We can see that you wrote it and you were the medic al
correspondent, and the first paragraph:
"Blood imported by the NHS from America could be
threatening the lives of thousands of British peopl e."
Then a little further down:
"Experts revealed exclusively to The Mail on
Sunday that two men in hospital... |
46,502 | 344 | QUESTION:
Can I just ask you to pause for a moment, Ms Dougla s.
10 I'm asked by the stenographers if you could sit a l ittle
closer to the microphone and speak a little more sl owly
for them. We have wonderful stenographers keeping track
of everything you say and they're just finding it
a little difficult to k... |
46,503 | 344 | QUESTION:
Let's keep going and I suspect I'll get a note if t here
are difficulties.
ANSWER:
Okay, I can move that if that helps. Is that bette r?
I've got an echo now. So it might be.
|
46,504 | 344 | QUESTION:
Thank you.
ANSWER:
Sorry, would you like me to --
|
46,505 | 344 | QUESTION:
Can you remember whether the doctor was directly
treating any haemophilia patients himself?
ANSWER:
No, he wasn't. He was a scientist rather than
a white-coated doctor who'd walk on ward rounds.
|
46,506 | 344 | QUESTION:
In that context, can you remember whether the docto r you
spoke with was Arthur Bloom?
ANSWER:
Categorically it wasn't.
|
46,507 | 344 | QUESTION:
When you spoke to that doctor, do you recall what t hat
conversation consisted of? Can you tell us about t he
conversation with him?
ANSWER:
Absolutely. The first -- the reason why I even tar geted
that doctor was, again, back to my friend Lorraine. She
had heard of his name through a very -- haema... |
46,508 | 344 | QUESTION:
If we then look at the second column of the article just
a little bit further down than where we are, we see
a reference to the Swiss Red Cross:
"The Swiss Red Cross, chief producer in
Switzerland of the anti-clotting factor needed by
haemophiliacs, said this weekend they would welcome
requests from Bri... |
46,509 | 344 | QUESTION:
Was your understanding that the Swiss Red Cross cou ld
supply the UK's entire needs or just some of them?
ANSWER:
From memory, the entire need, but the cost would ha ve
19 been very high.
|
46,510 | 344 | QUESTION:
If we look then at the headline that the article wa s
given, what involvement did you have in the headlin e?
ANSWER:
Journalists -- the humble reporter, sadly, never ha s any
influence whatsoever on the headline or pictures th at
are used. You, if you're lucky, are consulted. An d
because of the impo... |
46,511 | 344 | QUESTION:
When you were speaking to your Cardiff doctor and o ther
sources for this article, did any of them express
20 concerns that publishing the story would lead to pa nic
and to patients refusing Factor VIII?
ANSWER:
Before I wrote that article, no, they were voicing
genuine concerns. And we did discuss, ... |
46,512 | 344 | QUESTION:
Before the article was published, you think you had
dinner with Norman Fowler. How did that come about ?
ANSWER:
As a medical correspondent, your job was to know th e
Department of Health and the ministers in question and,
actually, if you were any good even higher up, thei r
bosses too. And because I'm... |
46,513 | 344 | QUESTION:
Do you think that you discussed the article with hi m
before it was published?
ANSWER:
I would definitely have discussed with him the conc erns
because this was in my head and something I really cared
about and would definitely have had that conversati on.
|
46,514 | 344 | QUESTION:
Do you recall anything of his response or any more
detail of the conversation?
ANSWER:
With Norman Fowler, at that point, I don't remember him
flagging up that he was concerned in any way.
|
46,515 | 344 | QUESTION:
You say in your statement that, prior to the public ation
of the watershed article, you would have had to pho ne
someone at the Department of Health to check the fa cts.
Do you have any recollection of who you phoned or w hat
22 was said?
ANSWER:
It wasn't just you would phone someone; you would h ave ... |
46,516 | 344 | QUESTION:
Before we move to another facet of the article did you
have any sources who discussed Scottish medical mat ters
with you or was this article and subsequent article s
primarily England focused?
ANSWER:
I don't recall it being any kind of divisive Englan d,
Wales, Scotland or Northern Irish. It would hav... |
46,517 | 344 | QUESTION:
Just to go back to a specific question I've been as ked
to ask you, whether you had any sources who discuss ed
specifically Scottish matters?
ANSWER:
No.
|
46,518 | 344 | QUESTION:
On the 6 May 1983, Dr Peter Jones wrote a complaint to
the Press Council and I want to take you to that.
PJON0000001_100, please. Thank you. It's the firs t and
second paragraphs I want to pick up, and I will jus t
read a little bit of it out, and then ask you about it.
He flags the article and the ... |
46,519 | 344 | QUESTION:
You then worked on a response to the complaint with
Mr Steven the Editor, which was ultimately sent out by
George Woodhouse, the Managing Editor.
ANSWER:
Mm-hm.
|
46,520 | 344 | QUESTION:
Could we turn to that, PJON0000001_104, please.
The letter responds in detail to each point and
I just want to take you to them and ask you about t hem.
The first point:
"You say the word 'virus' is used but there is no
proof that a virus even exists as a cause of the
acquired immune deficiency syndrom... |
46,521 | 344 | QUESTION:
The letter continues:
"You state that even if a transmissible agent is
eventually proven there is no proof that it has bee n
imported from the US."
The letter addresses that, particularly if we turn
over the page, with the paragraph "Finally":
"Finally, leading experts in the UK consulted by
us were p... |
46,522 | 344 | QUESTION:
Then at 4 there is reference to the two men and thi s
letter indicates that Dr Jones had said that at the time
the article was written this was untrue. Then it s ays
this:
"Sue Douglas says the two cases with suspected
AIDS which we reported were in fact confirming a we ek
later by doctors we had pre... |
46,523 | 344 | QUESTION:
Just over the page, in relation to the Swiss blood
point, we pick this up in relation to the article b ut,
for completeness, towards the bottom of the page po int 8
deals with Switzerland and we see there:
"Dr Ernst Staempfli of the Swiss Red Cross in
Bern -- the central laboratories producing most of
S... |
46,524 | 344 | QUESTION:
And so in terms of those other reporters for other
newspapers, what was your understanding of what the y
were doing in relation to this story?
ANSWER:
I knew that -- because we all worked in a pack in F leet
Street in the old days, and I knew that people were
interested in the story because it was reall... |
46,525 | 344 | QUESTION:
You wrote an article on 8 May 1983, and if we can p ut
that up.
PJON0000001_101.
It notes that the Government is taking emergency
32 action following the first article, and under the
heading "Factory" we see this:
"Mr Geoffrey Finsberg, junior Health Minister with
special responsibility for the blood... |
46,526 | 344 | QUESTION:
When there's a direct quote from someone, it may se em an
obvious question, but where does that come from?
ANSWER:
Probably a phone call or possibly a meeting. And
I should add, sorry, that you would always read, in
those days, the quote back that you were using, tha t was
going to be published. And I... |
46,527 | 344 | QUESTION:
Having had a letter of complaint to the Press Counc il,
you're now publishing a further article which may b e
controversial again. What process was followed wit hin
the newspaper in relation to this article in relati on to
making sure it was accurate?
ANSWER:
So the same process. And particularly now,... |
46,528 | 344 | QUESTION:
There was then a further article about the death of
a man which was described as a scandal.
If we could have HSOC0016002.
If we pick it up on the first column, we see that
his death is recorded and the article then says thi s:
"[Mr X's] death certificate will say that he died
of renal failure at Bristol... |
46,529 | 344 | QUESTION:
If we then pick it up in the editorial box, with th e
heading "Why there must be action", who would have
written this editorial element?
ANSWER:
The editor would write that with the journalist in
question, me, sat by his side. And he would be tap ping
away with what he wanted the paper to say. The ed... |
46,530 | 344 | QUESTION:
The editorial piece says in the first paragraph -- let
me read a couple of paragraphs out for those who ar e
listening to the Inquiry today:
"The suppression of the facts of [Mr X's] tragic
death and the lack of an inquest point towards
a conspiracy of silence.
"It may be that in withholding information... |
46,531 | 344 | QUESTION:
I'm asked to ask whether you considered that Govern ment
officials and ministers were party to the conspirac y of
silence, particularly -- sorry, yes -- whether they were
party to the silence.
ANSWER:
I felt that they were, and my continued conversatio ns
with ministers, as we discussed, and their und... |
46,532 | 344 | QUESTION:
The editorial then goes on:
"In May, I pointed out the dangers of importing
blood from a country with an AIDS epidemic. And I was
viciously attacked for panic-mongering. Must anoth er
innocent man die before action is taken?
"However, while Britain continues to accept
American blood supplies, our adv... |
46,533 | 344 | QUESTION:
We can take that down now, Lawrence, thank you.
Just staying with the question of conspiracy of
silence and thinking about it a little bit more bro adly,
you speak in your witness statement about the medic al
community being divided between those who wanted to act
and those who didn't.
ANSWER:
Yes.
|
46,534 | 344 | QUESTION:
What do you think differentiated those who wanted t o act
from those who didn't?
ANSWER:
Partly fear. Again. Like I'd experienced. What d o we
do? Our job as a doctor, if we're -- as we said in that
newspaper editorial, you are responsible and, up to
a point, the expert in charge of life and death f... |
46,535 | 344 | QUESTION:
In your discussion with sources, were you aware of
doctors being sanctioned or facing any repercussion s
if -- when they did speak out?
ANSWER:
Yes, because all the time I was talking to doctors
saying, "But don't quote me". They might lose thei r
jobs.
|
46,536 | 344 | QUESTION:
Are you aware of anybody in fact losing their jobs or
was it a fear expressed to you that they might?
ANSWER:
I think my original source had faced some really ba d
backlashes at work, and others were very keen, who
I spoke to totally separately, particularly doctors
... |
46,537 | 344 | QUESTION:
In a much later letter to the Press Council in 1988 , the
managing editor said that the article had generated one
of the heaviest postbags from readers, largely from
grassroot doctors and nurses congratulating the pap er
for speaking out. Just for the transcript, the
reference is PJON0000001_062. Was ... |
46,538 | 344 | QUESTION:
From your conversations with your sources, do you h ave
any sense of why there was that fear for doctors ab out
being frank on such an urgent public health issue?
ANSWER:
Yes, they had no choice. There was nothing else th ey
42 could give them apart from advising that they went
privately, perhaps.
|
46,539 | 344 | QUESTION:
And you speak in your statement of the hierarchy of the
medical community was responsible for covering up t he
issues. What were you referring to there, what do you
mean by that?
ANSWER:
The hierarchy right to the top in Government terms, and
to ministerial levels, but it was both that and tha t
se... |
46,540 | 344 | QUESTION:
Dr Jones wrote another complaint to the Press Counc il
about this other article. The reference is
PJON0000001_126. But this wasn't pursued because t here
was also legal action threatened and resolved betwe en
the paper and The Haemophilia Society, and in your
statement you said you had no involvement ... |
46,541 | 344 | QUESTION:
Another of those articles was in November 1984.
DHSC0000352. We won't particularly go there today.
The Press Council initially upheld Dr Jones's
first complaint. What was the impact of that on yo u?
ANSWER:
Appalling. The Press Council basically was the
council -- with phone hacking later and all the ... |
46,542 | 344 | QUESTION:
-- and whether you saw their publications?
ANSWER:
The Haemophilia Society's publications, of course.
|
46,543 | 344 | QUESTION:
The Press Council refused to withdraw their adjudic ation
but did reconsider it in 1987. By that time you we re
the Daily Mail and you weren't involved, but were y ou
aware of the withdrawal of it?
ANSWER:
Of course, and although I was at the Daily Mail, Th e
Mail on Sunday was the sister paper of the ... |
46,544 | 344 | QUESTION:
Thinking about your original May 1983 article, in t erms
of other journalists other media outlets, if there
hadn't been a press complaint or a backlash about t hat
article, what difference do you think that might ha ve
made in the actions of other journalists and other media
outlets?
ANSWER:
It's like... |
46,545 | 344 | QUESTION:
When you say you had understood that he knew there was
a problem, where had you obtained that information from?
ANSWER:
Again, if you recall, this was a sort of cloud of
opinion. I can't identify one particular nay-sayer or
one person who worked for him or with him. It woul d be
haemophiliacs who we... |
46,546 | 344 | QUESTION:
I'm not going to put this document up, but we have
a letter from the Managing Editor that was sent to
Dr Jones on 1 July 1983, responding to his complain t.
One of the paragraphs I'm asked to read out is this :
"I must say that I am concerned at your extremely
strong criticism of Sue Douglas and would s... |
46,547 | 344 | QUESTION:
Apologies, I didn't give the reference for that let ter,
PJON0000001_112, just for the transcript.
ANSWER:
So yes, I mean, George Woodhouse and I would have
discussed it but only in the presence with the Edit or.
I mean, you know, it would normally be with the Edi tor
that I was talking, from managemen... |
46,548 | 344 | QUESTION:
Was it your understanding, in making his complaint,
whether Dr Jones was acting independently or did yo u
understand others to be involved or encouraging his
actions?
ANSWER:
It was very much my view then -- it's difficult to
discern now with hindsight -- that he was almost ha ving
a crusade against me,... |
46,549 | 344 | QUESTION:
If we can then turn to HSOC0016112, please.
In the column furthest to the right, there are
these two paragraphs:
"Although The Mail on Sunday highlighted the
problem five months ago, Health Minister Kenneth Cl arke
was still saying yesterday that there was little th at
could be done.
"'We will make eve... |
46,550 | 344 | QUESTION:
Also in this article, if we just come out to the ma in
article, we were discussing the issue of the conspi racy
silence, and I asked you whether you had spoken to
The Haemophilia Society, and you indicated that you had.
ANSWER:
Yes.
|
46,551 | 344 | QUESTION:
I'm invited to ask you who at the Society you spoke to?
ANSWER:
I can't remember. That was a dialogue and there wo uld
have been several people, not just one.
|
46,552 | 344 | QUESTION:
Your Cardiff source, that was not Arthur Bloom, app eared
51 to be giving different information to you than what
Bloom was giving to the Society. I'm asked to ask you
whether you told the Society that your understandin g was
that Arthur Bloom had got it wrong?
ANSWER:
I don't think it was ever my posit... |
46,553 | 344 | QUESTION:
Can you tell us any more about what you said to
The Society before this article was published?
ANSWER:
This particular one?
|
46,554 | 344 | QUESTION:
In relation to the conspiracy of silence.
ANSWER:
Again, it's taxing my memory but, as a code for
journalists, I would always have questioned their
response, probed deeper, tried to find points of
difference, looked at weakness in argument and just
said, "Why do you think that? And what do you thin k o... |
46,555 | 344 | QUESTION:
In relation to your earlier clarity, your first art icle,
we discussed the Swiss Red Cross.
52 ANSWER:
Yes.
|
46,556 | 344 | QUESTION:
In our discussion you mentioned that you were aware of
the risks of the transmission of hepatitis through blood
and blood products. Do you recall this being an is sue
of concern to you or others in the medical communit y?
ANSWER:
Yes. Anything that was transmitted that caused
unnecessary disease wou... |
46,557 | 344 | QUESTION:
You mentioned doctors' views, people you were talki ng
to: there was no option but to treat patients with
Factor VIII. Do you recall any discussion about wh ether
a different approach could be taken in relation to mild
or moderate haemophiliacs?
ANSWER:
No, and I do think when I say there was no other... |
46,558 | 344 | QUESTION:
-- do you recall?
55 ANSWER:
There was. And, again, it was so early on that whe n
people were voicing alternatives like heat treatmen ts,
like all the other -- the changes in T cell behavio ur,
none of this was definitive. These were all just: this
is what's happening. The only evidence that we kne... |
46,559 | 344 | QUESTION:
To what extent did you research the safety of blood and
blood products collected in the UK, as opposed to t he
American imports?
ANSWER:
From memory, I was told that we had no self-suffici ency.
Possibly we did, in the private sector, and that yo u
could even --
|
46,560 | 344 | QUESTION:
I'm sorry, not in relation to self-sufficiency.
ANSWER:
Sorry.
|
46,561 | 344 | QUESTION:
But just in relation to the supply of plasma and bl ood.
Did you investigate anything about the sources of t he UK
supply?
ANSWER:
Well, we were getting the American supply. Is that what
you mean? We were getting only the American supply
because as I understood it, that was cost effective .
|
46,562 | 344 | QUESTION:
So you didn't undertake any investigation about sou rces
of blood and plasma collected domestically?
ANSWER:
Oh, I see what you mean. Sorry. Yes, I knew that --
I mean, obviously, the first question is why can't we
56 get the blood that we're collecting from donors in this
country? And, at that poin... |
46,563 | 344 | QUESTION:
The question is slightly different, I think we are
almost there.
ANSWER:
Sorry.
|
46,564 | 344 | QUESTION:
No, it's my fault for not framing this adequately. Did
you uncover anything about where the UK blood and p lasma
was coming from, in terms of whether it was the sam e as
the US, places like prisons?
ANSWER:
Oh, I see what you mean. Sorry, I completely -- ye s.
Because in this country it's a volunteer ... |
46,565 | 345 | QUESTION:
Sir, we
are
turning
today
to Scottish
Government decision making focusing on the period from
the 1970s to about the early 1990s. I am going to start
with a handful of introductory points, most of which
will be familiar to those who have followed previous
Inquiry presentations, this oral presentation
... |
46,566 | 345 | QUESTION:
I believe
he's
referring to the timing of the
decision to put this issue to Scottish Office ministers
in the first few months of 1985, and how officials went
about deciding --
ANSWER:
Well,
can you be any more precise
about that?
|
46,567 | 345 | QUESTION:
That's --
sir,
I will
--
if I may, I might come
back to being a bit more precise about that.
ANSWER:
The reason for my asking is this: the
idea of evaluating appears to have arisen initially in
January 1985 with the DHSS. It is not entirely clear
when it was taken forward, but it would have been ... |
46,568 | 345 | QUESTION:
Sir,
I can quite see why you're interested in
the precise date. I'm going to come back to the
introduction of HIV screening
--
ANSWER:
It's not -- if you can't answer it off
the top then better a considered
answer
in due course
.
|
46,569 | 345 | QUESTION:
Thank you, sir. I
could
try to give
you
an
answer off
the top but it would be a bit
too
rough and
ready and I will
make sure that I have a more precise
date to give you linking to this paragraph
when we get
to
the introduction
of HIV screening later
on
today
.
ANSWER:
Thank you.
|
46,570 | 345 | QUESTION:
Sir,
we can see
,
in this paragraph that's
highlighted here
,
Mr Murray describing the sorts of
factors which might lead to a minister being involved
directly in an issue
,
and he says:
"An issue like this would normally be brought to
Ministers' attention in the following circumstances: to
keep Minist... |
46,571 | 345 | QUESTION:
That's exactly right, sir, yes.
Yes
.
A
number of these factors come back
,
as you just
said
,
to a question of judgment
.
They're consistent
with what,
for
example
, Mr Macniven said
.
They don't
give us a precise answer
.
They don't give us a set
of
criteria by which that judgment was eva... |
46,572 | 345 | QUESTION:
That's absolutely right, sir, yes.
ANSWER:
Thank you.
|
46,573 | 345 | QUESTION:
We can take that down now. Thanks, Lawrence.
Now
,
the nature of the relationship between the
Scottish Office and the wider UK Government
,
more
particularly between the HHD and the DHSS
,
or later the
Department of Health, is an important aspect of our
understanding of HHD decision making in this per... |
46,574 | 345 | QUESTION:
What we see in the next
two
paragraphs
I'm
going to take you to, sir,
is Dr Brotherston seems to
use the term
"
infective jaundice
"
to cover both what we
understand
becomes
hepatitis A and
also
serum hepatitis
,
hepatitis B.
So in the fourth paragraph that begins "The
majority
",
it says:
"The... |
46,575 | 345 | QUESTION:
It's not, sir, no.
ANSWER:
Then if we go to
--
what is of
interest to us is the last paragraph, is it?
|
46,576 | 345 | QUESTION:
It's
the
next paragraph,
ye
s. It's
not quite
the last one because there are more below that. So he
starts with what becomes hepatitis A
. He
then moves to
serum hepatitis, which is what
is
of interest to us
,
and
he says this
--
I just wanted to highlight the first few
sentences in this:
"Se... |
46,577 | 345 | QUESTION:
Yes
.
ANSWER:
So the question then is
:
what form of
screening are you having?
|
46,578 | 345 | QUESTION:
Exactly, sir
,
yes
. When I refer to screening
techniques
,
what I mean is the debates about exactly
that, sir, the form of screening technique which is --
ANSWER:
Yes
.
|
46,579 | 345 | QUESTION:
-- appropriate.
Now this issue which is being considered by the
Maycock Group, the form of screening which is
appropriate, is also being raised in correspondence
again between Dr Wallace and the HHD
,
which provides us
some insight into what the HHD -- what information it
23
had and what its thinking w... |
46,580 | 345 | QUESTION:
Osmophoresis, thank you, sir.
If we move down to the paragraph that begins
"I have
no
qualms" Dr Scott says:
"I have
no
qualms about anticipating the Maycock
report
as I wonder if we could in any case stop
a
[
Regional Transfusion Director
]
who 50 to do RPH now or
indeed RIANSWER:
It is to a gr... |
46,581 | 345 | QUESTION:
This one
?
Of course, sir, yes. It's
SCGV0000079_013.
S
ir,
we can see at the top of this document that
it's a meeting of the Scottish Health Service Planning
Council Blood Transfusion Advisory Group. In attendance
at the meeting is Dr McIntyre from the HHD as well as
number of
trans
fusion director... |
46,582 | 345 | QUESTION:
Of course.
ANSWER:
Thank you.
9
November -- sorry,
9
March 1977.
|
46,583 | 345 | QUESTION:
9
March 1977.
ANSWER:
Thank you.
|
46,584 | 345 | QUESTION:
While we've got that date, sir,
9
March 1977,
21 September 2022
41
earlier on I described the Maycock Advisory Group draft
report being circulated to the
HHD
in around
February 1975. The report seems to be finalised
September 1975, discussed by directors in Scotland
toward... |
46,585 | 345 | QUESTION:
That's exactly right, sir, yes, that's
Dr Wallace's contribution at this time, March
1977.
ANSWER:
Then he goes on to the bit you're now
quoting. Let's have a look at that.
|
46,586 | 345 | QUESTION:
Yes,
that's right sir, yes.
"
Regional Directors
were concerned at this
increasing risk and would be considering the entire
question in the near future. The situation whereby
Reports of this kind had to be widely circulated for
approval prior to publication invariably resulted in the
document being som... |
46,587 | 345 | QUESTION:
That's exactly right
,
sir, yes
.
And that would
be consistent with a document that we looked at earlier
from Dr Wallace to the Department and Dr Wallace linked
some of his concerns about the sensitivity of the test
to developments in the use of blood products to Mr Watt
at the PFC, and the use of frac... |
46,588 | 345 | QUESTION:
We're finished with that now, thanks, Lawrence
.
Now
,
in the remainder of the 1970s and early 1980s
we can see in the document
s
further consideration of
screening methods, that includes developments of
,
for
example,
a lower cost RIA, and other methods, trials of
differen
t
techniques were being u... |
46,589 | 345 | QUESTION:
Sir, I'll be moving now to issues relating to
47
which HIV and AIDS
,
the Department's knowledge of
matters relating to HIV and AIDS, and their responses
.
Now
,
the earliest reference to AIDS in documents
involving the Home and Health Department
,
at least in
the material available to the Inquiry
, ... |
46,590 | 345 | QUESTION:
That wording, you're absolutely right, sir,
50
does leave that open. I'm not aware from the documents
that I've seen, and I believe are available to the
Inquiry at the moment, that there were any suspected
cases of AIDS in Scotland at the time of this note
--
of
this minute. It's an issue we might w... |
46,591 | 345 | QUESTION:
On
"Donation
Policy
",
Mr Davies wrote:
"The Blood Transfusion Directors in Scotland are
very aware of the problem and have it under constant
consideration." They are currently considering
..."
Then he
s
ets out four measures, first
:
"(
a
)
Briefing all frontline blood bank staff to
handle quest... |
46,592 | 345 | QUESTION:
I think's more likely to
tend
towards that
second characterisation, sir
.
It's perhaps a slightly
unusual word to use in this context. I think it is
likely to reflect officials
'
understanding that already
at this time
,
in May 1983
,
there was what they
considered to be a great deal of sensationa... |
46,593 | 345 | QUESTION:
That's exactly right, sir, yes.
ANSWER:
And making a virtue of that
.
|
46,594 | 345 | QUESTION:
Absolutely
making a virtue of that, sir,
yes
.
ANSWER:
Yes
. Thank you.
21 September 2022
57
|
46,595 | 345 | QUESTION:
It might be said to be tied not only to the
public perception of the
risk
of domestically produced
blood products but also what officials appear to
understand the relative risks to be. I'll come to
a
document a little later on which lays out -- or which
provides an insight into at least what some off... |
46,596 | 345 | QUESTION:
So the Minister's response which comes through
his Private Secretary the following day
.
It's just
a short document
.
SCGV0000147_153.
At the bottom we can see it's from Geoff Pearson
,
Private Secretary to Mr MacKay, directed to Mr Davies.
It
starts by simply noting that the Minister has seen
the m... |
46,597 | 345 | QUESTION:
That's
exactly
right
,
sir,
yes.
So
we
can see
that link being made, we can see the
emphasis on
self-sufficiency
again
.
We can also see the use of the
"
no
conclusive proof" line without a qualification
60
attached to it
on
whether or not a disease was likely to
be transmitted by blood a... |
46,598 | 345 | QUESTION:
That is
absolutely
right, sir. That is
a curious feature of this memo.
We'll come
a little
later to look at what
information was provided when to ministers in Scotland
and
,
in particular
,
Mr MacKay about
HTLV-III
screening
68
and when it might be introduced and
,
in doing so, I'll
seek to an... |
46,599 | 345 | QUESTION:
That's right, sir. I'll make sure I get the
timing right when we get to
HTLV-III
screening. From
memory, by January 1985, we see information sharing
between the DHSS and the SHHD. It could be that at this
time, November 1984, we weren't quite there yet in terms
of information
sharing.
ANSWER:
We... |
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